Time for a 17-round 9mm

[LockedBreech]

While I understand that panic-buy threads are eye-rolling, the Orlando incident and all my college tow-the-liberal-line friends with their gun control bleating has me wondering if we're about to face another December 2012 push. I'd like to own a fullsize 17-round service 9 before that.

I still don't own a 17-round 9mm pistol aside from my 92 (and I'm quirky so I like the 15-round factory mags better than even the 18-round Mec Gars).

Current candidates shortlisted:

1.) Glock 17 Gen 4. I already own a Glock 19 Gen 4, I like the Gen 4 Glocks, kind of a no-brainer. Most likely choice. Are these still having the reliability and BTF kerfuffles the 19 is?
2.) M&P 9. I can get one pretty darn cheap (about $150 less than 17 with night sights), but I never have been satisfied that the accuracy gunk is over with
3.) Sig P320 Fullsize. Seems a little big, maybe, and a little new, but nice otherwise.

As far as I know, HK's VP9 at 15 is their highest-cap 9mm. Not really interested in CZ or FN.

Anything good I'm overlooking?

[BCL]

I'd go with the G17 Gen 4, but that's just me. Mags are super inexpensive right now ($19 on Brownells, $20 on CDNN). The BTF/reliability issues are probably fixed; if not, there is a 40+ post thread from LL on how to fix the issues. Aftermarket is the largest of any handgun except for the 1911, Gen 4's are accurate...I can't think of anything else to say.

[LockedBreech]

Yarp, echoing my gut on this. I'll give this thread a day or two in case there's something I'm not thinking of, but your list was pretty much what I was thinking.

[ranger]

Smoking deals right now on the FN FNS. Not much aftermarket support but it comes with night sights and 3 mags.

[LockedBreech]

I really liked the FNS at first (and a friend had an FNP that I enjoyed range time with) but I read a post recently from someone on this forum who is issued an FNS-9 and apparently they're having major reliability issues re: frame flex and weapon lights, which makes me pause.

[JTQ]

Beretta PX4. Same controls as your Beretta 92.

Buy it this month and get two extra magazines free. http://www.beretta.com/en-us/

[LockedBreech]

Beretta PX4. Same controls as your Beretta 92.

Buy it this month and get two extra magazines free. http://www.beretta.com/en-us/

I do own a PX4 .40 FS and have had a very positive experience with it. Plus the Inox is pretty. Plus I like free mags. Solid suggestion that makes the list.

[LockedBreech]

"Stop buying new crap, you nerd, just get ammo and magazines" is also an acceptable response to this thread.

[GJM]

OEM Glock 19 magazine with OEM +2 magazine or OEM Glock 17 magazine = 17 rounds. :)

[Clay]

Magpul Glock 17 mags are $14.39 on Midway USA right now. Just sayin.

[Kyle Reese]

Glock 17 Gen 4

[Glenn E. Meyer]

My Gen 4 17 has been just fine. Runs with Glock mags and the Magpuls ( I do use the latter just for matches though).

[Leroy Suggs]

Hard to beat a G17 gen 4.

[LSP552]

Hard to beat the G17, unless you want to consider a SIG P226 with 18 round Mec-Gar mags.

[LockedBreech]

Hard to beat the G17, unless you want to consider a SIG P226 with 18 round Mec-Gar mags.

Happily, I recently decided to pick up a 226 with .40 and .357 barrels and one of the kind gents on this forum informed me you can buy complete-slide exchange kits for a few hundred bucks, so I should have a 226 in 9mm soon!

[Bigghoss]

Stick with Glock for now, G17 or a 34 MOS. Or just buy a crapload of G17 mags that you can use in the 17 since IF any legislation comes down the pipe it will be the mags that go away rather than the gun itself.


BTW, Mec-Gar makes great mags. Buy some for the 92 while you can.

[LSP552]

Happily, I recently decided to pick up a 226 with .40 and .357 barrels and one of the kind gents on this forum informed me you can buy complete-slide exchange kits for a few hundred bucks, so I should have a 226 in 9mm soon!

Outstanding! Just to help a fellow PFer out; did you know they also make .22 caliber kits for the P226? :D

[voodoo_man]

OEM Glock 19 magazine with OEM +2 magazine or OEM Glock 17 magazine = 17 rounds. :)

22 round ETS mag FTW.

http://i.imgur.com/KdXVHdj.jpg

[John Hearne]

While I understand that panic-buy threads are eye-rolling, the Orlando incident and all my college tow-the-liberal-line friends with their gun control bleating has me wondering if we're about to face another December 2012 push. I'd like to own a fullsize 17-round service 9 before that.

If you're worried about another push then P320 and lots of magazines makes sense to me. You can buy one gun that can be effectively swapped into a Glock 17, 19, or 26 with one serial numbered part. Plus you can mix and match those configurations like a 17 slide on a 19 frame.

[JSGlock34]

I've had problems with Beretta OEM 17 round magazines, CMI 15 round magazines, and even a finicky Beretta OEM 15 round magazine...but I've yet to have any issue with my nine 18 round Mec-Gar magazines.

[Kyle Reese]

22 round ETS mag FTW.



How reliable are the ETS mags compared to OEM? I've been on the fence about picking up a few and didn't want to piss money away on unreliable kit.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Current candidates shortlisted:

1.) Glock 17 Gen 4. I already own a Glock 19 Gen 4, I like the Gen 4 Glocks, kind of a no-brainer. Most likely choice. Are these still having the reliability and BTF kerfuffles the 19 is?
2.) M&P 9. I can get one pretty darn cheap (about $150 less than 17 with night sights), but I never have been satisfied that the accuracy gunk is over with
3.) Sig P320 Fullsize. Seems a little big, maybe, and a little new, but nice otherwise.

Anything good I'm overlooking?


If you're worried about another push then P320 and lots of magazines makes sense to me. You can buy one gun that can be effectively swapped into a Glock 17, 19, or 26 with one serial numbered part. Plus you can mix and match those configurations like a 17 slide on a 19 frame.

The P320 is available in a "Carry" configuration: compact slide/barrel w/full size grip/17 round magazine.

[HCM]

"Stop buying new crap, you nerd, just get ammo and magazines" is also an acceptable response to this thread.

This plus spare parts,

If you must have a new gun -

1) another Beretta ( since you favor them) you should have at least two of any serious use gun.
2) A second G19 gen 4 - maybe an MOS model
3) A G17 Gen 4 - maybe an MOS model.

As noted, a G19 mag with factory +2 gives you 17 plus 1.

I've had good results with the MAGPUL G17 mags in my work / carry G17 gen 4. We just bought some as loaner range mags. So far so good.

Mec gar mags are GTG for SIG and Beretta.

The P320 is promising but they are still making in line changes

[LockedBreech]

Outstanding! Just to help a fellow PFer out; did you know they also make .22 caliber kits for the P226? :D

My bank account said to tell you: You absolute monster

I'm thinking the plan now will be to buy mags, ammo, and spare parts, and if we see a new push that has traction grab a G17 MOS (which as I understand it is just a Gen 4 with mounting screws if I want an optic).

A good point about the P320 being modular. One purchase for a bunch of gun types is very tempting. Just barely new enough to still make me itchy though.

[voodoo_man]

How reliable are the ETS mags compared to OEM? I've been on the fence about picking up a few and didn't want to piss money away on unreliable kit.

Good to go from my experience. I have not had a single hiccup.

[Clay]

I have two of the ETS mags and they are not reliable, even after a replacement spring from ETS. They do have great service, though.

I have a bunch of the Magpul G19 and G17 mags and they have all been 100% reliable, and are easy to disassemble, which I love.

[Tom Fineis]

Shot Glocks for years and years and about 100k rounds.

Shot an M&P for about six months and about 5k rounds (terrible accuracy, no fixes available then).

Now have a P320 full size and really like it. Only thing I've purchased is sights, magazines, and bullets. I don't know that I'll shoot a Glock heavily again. Still carry a 26 pretty often.

[Kyle Reese]

Shot Glocks for years and years and about 100k rounds.

Shot an M&P for about six months and about 5k rounds (terrible accuracy, no fixes available then).

Now have a P320 full size and really like it. Only thing I've purchased is sights, magazines, and bullets. I don't know that I'll shoot a Glock heavily again. Still carry a 26 pretty often.

Concur on the M&P 9. Sadly, I wasted much more time, effort and ammo on my M&P-venture.

[Tom Fineis]

Price for performance is heavily biased towards Glock, I think. After years of just dealing with the way they didn't fit me, I've learned that I can shoot a gun that I have to fight less to shoot well.

I'm also playing with DA guns at the moment, but the P320 will remain as my current plastic fantastic of choice. I am fortunate that I can buy guns and mags at dealer cost. Were I buying at retail it might be a fair bit more difficult to rationalize $600 base guns and $45 mags, but plenty of people shoot HK's here, so.... ;)

[JBP55]

Gen 4 G17 or Gen 4 G17MOS.

[Handy]

A G19 is not a 17 round gun? Or is the ability to accept a 15 round magazine the limitation?

[JSGlock34]

Gen 4 G17 or Gen 4 G17MOS.

I'm down on the MOS series for carry use. I've had both the optic and adapter plate work loose. Slathering with blue loctite seems to be working for some people, but I'm going with a custom solution for my RDS carry Glock. In addition, BUIS options are workable but not ideal due to the additional height of the adapter plate.

For the range, I think the MOS is a great gateway gun for those who want to try a slide mounted optic, but for carry I'd send that GEN4 G17 slide to L&M Precision or ATEi.

[LockedBreech]

A few posts about G19s with G17 magazines. That's my fault for making a crap title. I'm interested in a full-size gun with a default 17 round capacity. I own an HK VP9 and a Glock 19 Gen 4 already.

I am feeling a little silly and wondering if I was just happy for the news to give me an excuse to buy another gun. Might sit on it a few months and see.

Given that "Just buy ammo and magazines, you nerd" is by a mile the most liked post, I think I probably have my answer.

[GJM]

I'm down on the MOS series for carry use. I've had both the optic and adapter plate work loose. Slathering with blue loctite seems to be working for some people, but I'm going with a custom solution for my RDS carry Glock. In addition, BUIS options are workable but not ideal due to the additional height of the adapter plate.

For the range, I think the MOS is a great gateway gun for those who want to try a slide mounted optic, but for carry I'd send that GEN4 G17 slide to L&M Precision or ATEi.

That is your problem -- we are using blue lactate on the MOS.

The strength of the MOS is gaming and/or trying out new optics. Direct mill for carry!

[DocGKR]

"OEM Glock 19 magazine with OEM +2 magazine or OEM Glock 17 magazine = 17 rounds."

There is much wisdom above.

Stop buying different pistols.

Get a second VP9 or G19, then sell the other pistol.

Practice more.

[LockedBreech]

There is much wisdom above.

Stop buying different pistols.

Get a second VP9 or G19, then sell the other pistol.

Practice more.

Point taken as to the buying habit (which I am very guilty of)

Why the two identical pistols? I see that posted frequently and I've never seen an explanation for it.

[GJM]

Point taken as to the buying habit (which I am very guilty of)

Why the two identical pistols? I see that posted frequently and I've never seen an explanation for it.

Because two is one. Really you need at least three identical pistols if you want to depend upon them.

[LockedBreech]

I guess I'm confused as to why.

Is it if one breaks, so you have the same type to rely on?

At any rate, per this thread, I've abandoned the idea of getting anything new for now and I ordered some supplementary magazines, springs and ammo for my current stuff.

[DocGKR]

One for training (which is ridden hard and put away wet; for example, I last cleaned by training G19 some 8500 rds ago); one for carry (which after being verified for reliability and POA/POI--probably 2500 rounds or so) is shot little (maybe 100 rds a year to verify POA/POI and function), but carried a lot. If you have the funds, I'd recommend getting a third identical pistol to have stored away perhaps as a house gun with a light on it, but having it readily available as a back-up to the carry gun, in case it is seized for evidence in the wake of a shooting incident...

Then stop buying guns! Spend your time and funds on ammo and training.

[LockedBreech]

Thanks for the clarification :)

I'll set some time aside this week to take my G19 and 92 to the range and let them know I still love them and I'm not bringing a new favorite home.

[Sam]

Point taken as to the buying habit (which I am very guilty of)

Why the two identical pistols? I see that posted frequently and I've never seen an explanation for it.

I have a carry G19 with approximately 2K rounds through it. After shooting that many rounds through it, it's been cleaned somewhat regularly and not shot. A couple of other Glocks are shot a ton and not carried. The carry gun was checked for function and then not shot so I don't cause any more wear on it.

[GJM]

Thanks for the clarification :)

I'll set some time aside this week to take my G19 and 92 to the range and let them know I still love them and I'm not bringing a new favorite home.

As long as you have duplicate/triplicate copies of your primary, and it doesn't cut into your ammo and training, buy as many guns as you like!

[HCM]

Thanks for the clarification :)

I'll set some time aside this week to take my G19 and 92 to the range and let them know I still love them and I'm not bringing a new favorite home.

You need two of the guns you actually use for carry and defense. If you don't carry your G19 or keep it as a bedside / house gun then it's not really a priority.

If I recall correctly, your primary carry gun is a Walther PPS so you need two of those. A Beretta 92 as a bedside gun so a second one of those is nice to have / lower priority.

Two to three identical guns in case of:
- breakage
- wear and tear
- theft
- your is gun taken as evidence after a shooting

In addition to ammo and magazines, do you have spare parts for your primary guns ? Spare recoil springs ? Im not sure what soared are recommended for the PPS but aspare locking block and trigger return springs for your beretta would be a good idea.

I used to work in a small resident office. One of my partners got into a shooting and his duty weapon was taken as evidence. The closest spare agency guns were 5-6 hours away so I sent him home with my duty gun as I was the only one who had an agency approved second gun. We had several sets of paperwork for secondary weapons submitted soon thereafter.

[LockedBreech]

You need two of the guns you actually use for carry and defense. If you don't carry your G19 or keep it as a bedside / house gun then it's not really a priority.

If I recall correctly, your primary carry gun is a Walther PPS so you need two of those. A Beretta 92 as a bedside gun so a second one of those is nice to have / lower priority.

Two to three identical guns in case of:
- breakage
- wear and tear
- theft
- your is gun taken as evidence after a shooting

In addition to ammo and magazines, do you have spare parts for your primary guns ? Spare recoil springs ? Im not sure what soared are recommended for the PPS but aspare locking block and trigger return springs for your beretta would be a good idea.

I used to work in a small resident office. One of my partners got into a shooting and his duty weapon was taken as evidence. The closest spare agency guns were 5-6 hours away so I sent him home with my duty gun as I was the only one who had an agency approved second gun. We had several sets of paperwork for secondary weapons submitted soon thereafter.

Good memory, yeah, I have the PPS and exactly 0 backups in parts, magazines, or replacement guns. I guess the daily carry guy - the most important one - slipped my mind entirely. I'll have to fix that.

[Totem Polar]

Magpul Glock 17 mags are $14.39 on Midway USA right now. Just sayin.

The last time someone posted this info, I bought some. They've all been 100 percent. Just another data point, FWIW.

[Savage Hands]

My current Gen 4 G17 is my favorite handgun out of the few dozen I've owned and the best that I shoot, unfortunately my G19 is slightly easier to conceal and is carried more often. I say get two Gen 4 G17's plus a spare G19, have one each to train with and the other for carry.

[ReverendMeat]

we are using blue lactate on the MOS.

Gross. How much did it cost to ship your cows from Tattooine?

OP, you have no reason to not get another 92.

[spinmove_]

While I understand that panic-buy threads are eye-rolling, the Orlando incident and all my college tow-the-liberal-line friends with their gun control bleating has me wondering if we're about to face another December 2012 push. I'd like to own a fullsize 17-round service 9 before that.

I still don't own a 17-round 9mm pistol aside from my 92 (and I'm quirky so I like the 15-round factory mags better than even the 18-round Mec Gars).

Current candidates shortlisted:

1.) Glock 17 Gen 4. I already own a Glock 19 Gen 4, I like the Gen 4 Glocks, kind of a no-brainer. Most likely choice. Are these still having the reliability and BTF kerfuffles the 19 is?
2.) M&P 9. I can get one pretty darn cheap (about $150 less than 17 with night sights), but I never have been satisfied that the accuracy gunk is over with
3.) Sig P320 Fullsize. Seems a little big, maybe, and a little new, but nice otherwise.

As far as I know, HK's VP9 at 15 is their highest-cap 9mm. Not really interested in CZ or FN.

Anything good I'm overlooking?

Honestly, if I were you, I'd just go G17. You're already a fan of the Gen4s and this would just be a slightly larger version of what you're already intimately familiar with. Keep it simple, snag one and drive on.

[ralph]

To harp on what's already been said, I'd go with another g19, and just buy some g17 mags, or if you want a g17, (gen4) Myself, I also enjoy the challange of learning DA/SA, which I believe will do wonders for teaching trigger control. But, I primarily carry a g19, in a g17 kydex holster(bladetech) and have a g17 as a backup, both have the same sights on them. I also have a Beretta Vertec, it's kinda large to carry but it can be done. During the last dry spell it seemed that mags, parts,for Glocks, and Berettas were probably the easiest to find when everything else was unobtainable..

[GJM]

During the last dry spell it seemed that mags, parts,for Glocks, and Berettas were probably the easiest to find when everything else was unobtainable..

Interesting observation. I suspect the reason parts and stuff were available for the Glock is because everyone wants one. The reason stuff was available for the Beretta is because nobody* wants one.

* = general gun buying public

[LockedBreech]

Interesting observation. I suspect the reason parts and stuff were available for the Glock is because everyone wants one. The reason stuff was available for the Beretta is because nobody* wants one.

* = general gun buying public

That was 100% my experience with .40 - I was still primarily a .40 shooter during the ammo drought and I never had a real problem finding ammo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ralph]

Interesting observation. I suspect the reason parts and stuff were available for the Glock is because everyone wants one. The reason stuff was available for the Beretta is because nobody* wants one.

* = general gun buying public

I understand what you're saying, and that's ok. Myself, I've found that Beretta's are excellant shooters, dead nuts reliable, and accurate, a simple, inexpensive hammer spring change brings the DA trigger pull down to much more user-friendly levels.. This is a loss to the general gun buying public, Beretta's IMO, are truly unappreciated. Local shop to me has new M9's for $499, a steal if you ask me, considering what you're getting.

[GJM]

I understand what you're saying, and that's ok. Myself, I've found that Beretta's are excellant shooters, dead nuts reliable, and accurate, a simple, inexpensive hammer spring change brings the DA trigger pull down to much more user-friendly levels.. This is a loss to the general gun buying public, Beretta's IMO, are truly unappreciated. Local shop to me has new M9's for $499, a steal if you ask me, considering what you're getting.

I took 599 (their super advanced pistol course) at Gunsite last October with a Wilson Beretta 92. They couldn't remember the last time someone had been thru any of their advanced pistol classes with a 92.

[ralph]

I took 599 (their super advanced pistol course) at Gunsite last October with a Wilson Beretta 92. They couldn't remember the last time someone had been thru any of their advanced pistol classes with a 92.

How did the pistol run during the class? I'll admit my Vertec hasn't seen anything more punishing than some local IDPA matches...I figure I've got around 2k rnds on it, no problems, and I'm running the 18 rnd Mec-Gars..

[GJM]

How did the pistol run during the class? I'll admit my Vertec hasn't seen anything more punishing than some local IDPA matches...I figure I've got around 2k rnds on it, no problems, and I'm running the 18 rnd Mec-Gars..

It ran like a 92 -- absolutely reliable and easy to shoot.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

That was 100% my experience with .40 - I was still primarily a .40 shooter during the ammo drought and I never had a real problem finding ammo.

Yeah, that was true here. However, I had sold my Glock in 40 as I wasn't professional enough at the time and consolidated my semis on 9mm and 45 ACP. Some thought 40 was around as it sucked (ducking for cover!!!).

[M2CattleCo]

Hard to beat the G17, unless you want to consider a SIG P226 with 18 round Mec-Gar mags.

This is what I was gonna say...

[Dave Williams]

I took 599 (their super advanced pistol course) at Gunsite last October with a Wilson Beretta 92. They couldn't remember the last time someone had been thru any of their advanced pistol classes with a 92.

Am I correct that is the 3rd time that class was run ever?

[GJM]

Am I correct that is the 3rd time that class was run ever?

No idea, but if I was guessing, it would be it is a semi-regular offering. It was a nice class, plenty of indoor and outdoor simulators, day and night, FOF, good instructors and students. I think I wrote a class review on it last October, and stuck it in the PF AAR section.