Anyone reload heavy-for-caliber 9mm?

[Welder]

So I finally ran out of the MG 125 JHP's I'd been reloading with for the last few years. Wondering if anybody here loads the Xtreme 165 gr 9mm plated bullet? I've got a thousand here that I bought a yr or two ago; thinking about giving them a try. Would be interested in hearing your experiences with accuracy, any issues with keyholing, and your loads if you'd like to share. I load on a Dillon 650 and have 231/HP-38 and Titegroup on the shelf right now.

I figure if I like these, I can go ahead and get a big order for more in now before the craziness starts in a couple months. Thanks for any advice / recommendations.

[Welder]

Some more info and an update. Pistol I'm using for chrono purposes is an LTT 92G with 4.7" Bar-Sto barrel. These loads will also be function-tested in PX4 Compact and SC.

So I started loading these this afternoon. In the middle of testing right now (range in my backyard), but looks like 231 isn't going to do what I want. I want to find a 790-800 fps load for about a 130k power factor. I started loading at 1.164 OAL and 2.9 grs 231 - that got me 720 fps avg over 10 shots. Reduced OAL to 1.155 which only added 2 fps to the 10 shot avg. Increased load to 3.1 grs and had 740 fps, but primers are flattening and some have tiny holes at tip of firing pin indentation. Using WSP primers as that's what I have the most of. Switching to Titegroup and will update results once I have some.

Oh yeah, no evidence of keyholing so far (target is about 20 yds out from firing position).

[okie john]

Some more info and an update. Pistol I'm using for chrono purposes is an LTT 92G with 4.9" Bar-Sto barrel. These loads will also be function-tested in PX4 Compact and SC.

So I started loading these this afternoon. In the middle of testing right now (range in my backyard), but looks like 231 isn't going to do what I want. I want to find a 790-800 fps load for about a 130k power factor. I started loading at 1.164 OAL and 2.9 grs 231 - that got me 720 fps avg over 10 shots. Reduced OAL to 1.155 which only added 2 fps to the 10 shot avg. Increased load to 3.1 grs and had 740 fps, but primers are flattening and some have tiny holes at tip of firing pin indentation. Using WSP primers as that's what I have the most of. Switching to Titegroup and will update results once I have some.

Oh yeah, no evidence of keyholing so far (target is about 20 yds out from firing position).

What's the rate of twist in that barrel? I've had 147's keyhole in a 1:16 barrel that groups very well with 124 XTPs.


Okie John

[Welder]

What's the rate of twist in that barrel? I've had 147's keyhole in a 1:16 barrel that groups very well with 124 XTPs.


Okie John

I'm not sure on twist - 1:16 would be my guess though. Don't see that info on Bar-Sto's page and don't know what they might've been offering back in the early 2000's when this was built.

I had keyholing issues with Missouri Cast 147's years ago, but never an issue with Berry's 147's. This was with factory barrels -assume you know the stock Beretta 92 barrels are all oversize; mine slug at .3575 or so, with some going .358. The 125 MG JHP's I mentioned above were .357 dia and seemed to shoot well in the stock barrels. I haven't slugged the Bar-Sto but ASS-U-ME it's a true .355. Bottom line is on the factory Beretta barrels I'm not sure how much of the keyholing issue was being caused by oversized bores and how much, if any, by rifling twist.

[okie john]

I'm not sure on twist - 1:16 would be my guess though. Don't see that info on Bar-Sto's page and don't know what they might've been offering back in the early 2000's when this was built.

I had keyholing issues with Missouri Cast 147's years ago, but never an issue with Berry's 147's. This was with factory barrels -assume you know the stock Beretta 92 barrels are all oversize; mine slug at .3575 or so, with some going .358. The 125 MG JHP's I mentioned above were .357 dia and seemed to shoot well in the stock barrels. I haven't slugged the Bar-Sto but ASS-U-ME it's a true .355. Bottom line is on the factory Beretta barrels I'm not sure how much of the keyholing issue was being caused by oversized bores and how much, if any, by rifling twist.

I'm not sure that the twist is definitely the problem, but that same barrel slugs a little big and shoots very well with 125-grain .358" diameter cowboy bullets.


Okie John

[Welder]

I'm not sure that the twist is definitely the problem, but that same barrel slugs a little big and shoots very well with 125-grain .358" diameter cowboy bullets.


Okie John

Were your 147's also .358? Back then the only 147's I could round up were the Missouri's, and they were only .356. Before that I was using some 125 LRN's in .358 by Penn, which I never had keyhole issues with either. I gave up on lead about 3 yrs ago when I totally blew an indoor 'night' stage at the VA Commonwealth Cup from the lead smoke obscuring the targets downrange. Thickest fog you ever did see. After that I shot up all my lead and moved on to plated and jacketed bullets.

[okie john]

Were your 147's also .358? Back then the only 147's I could round up were the Missouri's, and they were only .356. Before that I was using some 125 LRN's in .358 by Penn, which I never had keyhole issues with either. I gave up on lead about 3 yrs ago when I totally blew an indoor 'night' stage at the VA Commonwealth Cup from the lead smoke obscuring the targets downrange. Thickest fog you ever did see. After that I shot up all my lead and moved on to plated and jacketed bullets.

I'm not sure of the diameter, but they were jacketed, and from a load on Doc's list, so they were probably standard. They shoot fine in a 1:9.84" twist barrel.


Okie John

[Welder]

I'm not sure of the diameter, but they were jacketed, and from a load on Doc's list, so they were probably standard. They shoot fine in a 1:9.84" twist barrel.


Okie John

Interesting. I've got some 147 GD's here that I should try out, then. The Berry's 147's never gave me trouble with keyholing though.

Just got back in from some more testing. After switching to TG I was able to up the velocity a little until the WSP's started flattening out. I think with these primers I'm going to stop at 2.8 grs, which gets me an avg of 763 fps with a SD of 10. Have some CCI primers here which might let me get some more speed on.

Haven't seen a keyhole yet; need to refill the primers, load up some more, pull the PX-4's out and set the targets back to 35 yds to check for keyholing and function. Have an STI Sentry I'll try this stuff in, too.

[Welder]

Preliminary function testing indicates this round seated to a 1.155 OAL, 2.8 grs TG, WSP primers will function in my 92's, the PX4 Compact and Subcompact, and the STI full-size 1911 Sentry. But I get keyholing at 15 yds in every pistol *except* the LTT 92. Avg velocities for this load were right at 770 fps through both the 92 and the 1911, and down around 730 fps for the PX4 C and SC. Looks like I'm going to want to chase after more velocity if I hope to make this stuff usable in the non-92's I own. The 92 was still stabilizing the round at 35 yds, which is the most distance I currently have cleared to shoot in. Ran two mags at that distance, and not a keyhole one.

[Edwin]

I've shot Bayou's 150 grn SWC (http://www.bayoubullets.net/9mm-150-gr-swc-100-ct/), Bayou 160 grn RN, and Xtreme 165grn RN out of my 92G Brig Tac. 4.0 grains of CFE for 147 grn Xtreme RN @ 1.135" OAL gives me 130 PF. Here's my chrono data.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8qjXyklzrlGRHFOSHhJbFFjbjQ

[Welder]

Edwin, were you using CFE for the heavier stuff too? I'm skirting right around 125 PF with 2.8 grs of TG, but my research says I'm in +P territory at that loading and primers are showing it. I need to find a slower powder for this heavy stuff, and not sure which one to go with.

[Edwin]

I did but I can't find my chrono data on those. :( I'll have to buy some more and make new ones to chrono.

[ranger]

I used to shoot 160 LRN and 150SWC in 38 Super for USPSA to make "major". I later loaded them I'm 9mm in "minor". I really like the 150SWC in 9mm. I typically just load 124 Bayous now.

[Welder]

Thanks for the additional replies. I put this question on the Brian Enos forum today, and if I get some helpful info there I'll post it here also.

[Welder]

An update on this:

The Enos forum was a bust - got a safety nazi in one of the first replies who kind of shut the answers down before they really got started. So I bought the Quickload software (had been wanting it for awhile anyway - getting some pressure results for this particular combo is what pushed me over the edge and got me to spend the $$$) which arrived this afternoon. I posted the following as a summary to the Enos thread so at least it might help somebody else in the future:


After doing some studying in the Quickload software, I went to town with a list of suitable powders going by the pressure numbers in the software. The only powder I was able to find locally was Hodgdon Longshot, and a load of 3.8 grs has given me an average of 823 fps in the full-size Beretta (SD 15), and 798 fps in the PX4 Compact. There was no keyholing on the targets and the primers looked normal. There was a storm coming so no time for in-depth testing, but for now it looks like I have a powder that solves the previous problems I was having.

FYI, AA#5 was another powder that looked promising in Quickload, which is a really cool piece of software. Not only does it estimate pressure, it estimates % powder burn and % fill in the case, so you can narrow down your choices by avoiding loads that might be compressed, etc (if that matters for your application).

[flange]

Some data here.

http://ww w.shootingtimes.com/reloading/reloading-heavy-bullets-in-9mm-luger/

not sure if it helps but maybe worth a look.

[Welder]

A little more data on the Xtreme 165's with Longshot powder. My comp gun is already packed up for tomorrow's club match, but did some last minute off-the-porch shooting in the rain with the chrono resting on the far porch rail with a stock (read: oversized bore, 4.9" barrel) 92G pistol. Wanted to drop the PF to something more sissyImeanreasonable. Since the whole point was to compare with 147's. Started at 3.4 grs Longshot and hit an avg of 727 fps. Brass was just dribbling out of the gun, but it was functioning. Went up to 3.6 grs and avg was 771 with SD of 11. At around 127 PF that's all I need - it will be slightly faster in the Bar-Sto barrel (read: proper .355 bore) in my comp gun.

Going back up to load 100 of these; for better or worse we'll see how they shoot tomorrow. This'll be the first match I'll be using them in.