Sig P224 discontinued?

[WOLFIE]

I looked for the P224 on the Sig website and it has been removed from the current handgun section and placed in the discontinued section. Does anyone have information about this?

[Hauptmann]

Wow.....well it certainly didn't last long if that is the case. The ones I have handled were not appealing.

[WOLFIE]

I have been thinking of buying a 239 or 224. The decision might already be made for me.

[BehindBlueI's]

I wonder if that's the driving force behind the P229C. Isn't that a 224 slide in a 229 frame?

[Josh Runkle]

The 224 might be the best gun that I own.

[GJM]

My bet is the 224 is a great gun, but Sig has set a limit on total guns in the catalog, and a rainbow colored maniac or similarly named model edged out the gun designed to be a BUG for professional users of larger P series pistols.

[WOLFIE]

Comparing the 224 to the 239: They are close in size except for grip length. The 239 is slightly slimmer and has a slightly longer barrel and the 224 holds a lot more rounds (9mm). The 239 does not work as well as the 224 for an ankle gun.

[Josh Runkle]

Comparing the 224 to the 239: They are close in size except for grip length. The 239 is slightly slimmer and has a slightly longer barrel and the 224 holds a lot more rounds (9mm). The 239 does not work as well as the 224 for an ankle gun.

And the 224 takes 226 mags, so you can use a 20 rounder as a reload.

[Irelander]

I see the 224 SAS on the Sig website.

ETA...http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p224-sas.aspx

[Greg]

I suspect a lot of people thought they were a cool concept, but enough people didn't plunk down any coin on them.

Kinda like M4 carbines with rifle length gas systems.

[alohadoug]

I see the 224 SAS on the Sig website.

ETA...http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p224-sas.aspx

that link takes you to the "Discounted Pistols" section of the website.

[Hauptmann]

A P224 that is able to use duty P226 mags seems appealing to LE, but there are fewer and fewer LEs using traditional DA/SA Sigs. My opinion of the P224 was that it was a brick by comparison to the P239, discouraging LE from using it as a BUG, and only as a stand alone off duty gun. Many shooters who I have observed shooting the P239, including myself, can shoot them generally better than a P228/P229 and almost as well as a P226. The P224, not as well as a P228/P229. As a conceal carry piece, the P239 is far superior.....and carrying extra single stack mags is far easier than a P224 double stack.

[WOLFIE]

A P224 that is able to use duty P226 mags seems appealing to LE, but there are fewer and fewer LEs using traditional DA/SA Sigs. My opinion of the P224 was that it was a brick by comparison to the P239, discouraging LE from using it as a BUG, and only as a stand alone off duty gun. Many shooters who I have observed shooting the P239, including myself, can shoot them generally better than a P228/P229 and almost as well as a P226. The P224, not as well as a P228/P229. As a conceal carry piece, the P239 is far superior.....and carrying extra single stack mags is far easier than a P224 double stack.

I view the 224 as being similar to the Glock 26, the HK P2000SK, and the M&P 9C. The magazines for the 239 seem to be tough; the metal is thick.

[SansSouci]

I have been thinking of buying a 239 or 224. The decision might already be made for me.

Were I to buy a gun for everyday concealed carry, I'm almost complete certain that it'd be a P-239 in .40 S&W. In fact, were I to run across a good deal on a P-239 in .40 S&W, it'd be mine.

[JDM]

Were I to buy a gun for everyday concealed carry, I'm almost complete certain that it'd be a P-239 in .40 S&W. In fact, were I to run across a good deal on a P-239 in .40 S&W, it'd be mine.

Why .40?

[Hauptmann]

I view the 224 as being similar to the Glock 26, the HK P2000SK, and the M&P 9C. The magazines for the 239 seem to be tough; the metal is thick.

In theory, it is similar to those. However, the weight, balance, and size of the P224 makes it less ergonomic and shootable than those. The decocker, location of the slide release, and location of the trigger bar spring all add additional width and give the Sig its classic unergonomic grip humps. The G26, and HKP2000sk for example have thinned contours in the region of the thumb and index finger for a natural and comfortable point by the dominant hand. This also adds additional grip control for a more stable trigger pull. Sigs lack this high grip support, and depend on the middle and lower regions of the grip for adequate shooting support. The P224 sacrifices too much grip in this regard, while the P239 retains much of it while at the same time its single stack design has better high grip ergonomics. Combine that with the P239's full length rails for P220/P226 accuracy, it really does outclass the P224 in shot per shot performance.

[Tamara]

As a lone data point, we had two 9mm P224s on the shelf at Indy Arms when I started working there in August of last year, before the store's grand opening. We sold one of them about a week before I quit in early February of this year. The other might still be there, but I haven't checked. And this is in a state where the State Po-Po use mostly P227s, so Sigs have a bit of halo effect from that.

They were tough sells on a shelf with P320 subcompacts.

[Gadfly]

Our LGS had one for about a year. Finally sold it off at a loss to get rid of it. It was a 9mm DAK with NS and 5 mags. He had listed at $500 and it still took a few weeks to move.

This is second hand, so take it with a grain of salt. Rumor is, Sig won the DHS pistol contract in 04 with the 229/239. The Glock 26 which had been issued was to be pulled from service. Rumor again is all the big wigs in DC were going to be first to hand in the 26, and be issued the new super duper 239. The big wigs went to the range to be issued the new pistol. They handled and shot the 239 and 26 side by side. Not a lot of 239 fans. By the following day, a memo came out re authorizing the 26 for duty. It was the same reaction in many offices. Close to 2000 agents opted to personal purchase a 26 over taking a free 239... Orders from DHS for 239 were scaled back. We call that a clue.

Sig took the hint. What did folks like about the 26? It was smaller, took the mags from the bigger gun, used the same holster as the bigger gun..... And off to the drawing board they went. The 224 was the result. But when they showed it to DHS, the response was "meh". The 10 year contract was half over. Folks were happy with the 26. And no one at HQ wanted to spend money to test the 224 to see if it could be adopted. It was a gun that had promise, but it was introduced too late. Apparently, no other big agencies cared either.

That is the RUMOR mill story of the 224. Take it for what it's worth. Bar stories told second hand over beers...

[psalms144.1]

...SNIP...That is the RUMOR mill story of the 224. Take it for what it's worth. Bar stories told second hand over beers...We've had a similar response in our agency to the P229 DAKs in general. Last time I checked, over 50% of our procured P229Rs were sitting in our HQs armory after being turned in by folks who are carrying personal weapons instead. Likewise, we've be converting the triggers for our special response guys from DAK to TDA for a while, and there MIGHT be an opportunity in the future that the conversion will be made available to those still carrying the 229, at the agent's request, of course.

I definitely understand the advantages of a smaller pistol that feeds off the larger pistol's magazine - I've bored y'all with stories of our P229/P239 issues during the Navy Yard response enough. But, the 224 never "did" anything for me, too chunky, too heavy, too everything, pretty much. To be fair, I feel the same about the P229 in any trigger flavor, so it's unlikely that I'd fall in love with its smaller sibling...

[Tamara]

Our LGS had one for about a year. Finally sold it off at a loss to get rid of it. It was a 9mm DAK with NS and 5 mags. He had listed at $500 and it still took a few weeks to move.

Dang, I might have bit on that for five bills, if only to put a few thousand rounds through it for the amusement of the internet.

[LSP552]

A P224 that is able to use duty P226 mags seems appealing to LE, but there are fewer and fewer LEs using traditional DA/SA Sigs. My opinion of the P224 was that it was a brick by comparison to the P239, discouraging LE from using it as a BUG, and only as a stand alone off duty gun. Many shooters who I have observed shooting the P239, including myself, can shoot them generally better than a P228/P229 and almost as well as a P226. The P224, not as well as a P228/P229. As a conceal carry piece, the P239 is far superior.....and carrying extra single stack mags is far easier than a P224 double stack.

^ Nailed it!

[60Driver]

First off, acknowledged I am new poster here (multi year lurker), so will try to provide subjective information given this sites stellar standards.

I have been carrying a 9mm P224 (DA/SA) SAS for the past year and a half replacing a Baer Commander as my normal side arm. I made this choice based on personal familiarity and comfort running 226/228 as my issued weapon in the military a few moons ago and to increase capacity over a 1911. I am fortunate to be a DOD civilian in an Organization that allows carry.

For me as a Sig shooter it fills the role of the Glock 26, with the benefit of carrying 226 mag(s) as the reload. I have roughly 2500 rounds through it and it did bobble (FRTB) twice in the first 50 rnds running 115gr. Past that it has been 100% with HSTs and various range ammo. I attribute the initial Malf's to slightly rough fitment of the barrel hood that I cleaned up a bit after my first session with it.

Sig had serious issues with the gun in .40 that Bruce Grey attributed to insufficient spring. Thankfully for me the 9mm variants have proven far better. Though I by no means am in the league of many here (Best FAST barely sub 7) I shoot the little gun fairly well and for my build and job riding a desk it is far more comfortable than a full size 226. Agree the 239 is a stellar weapon but I personally shoot the 224 as well. So as others have posted, for someone who is a Sig DA/SA shooter it is a valid niche gun for concealed carry. It is heavy, a bit chunky, but these subjectively help me shoot it better in terms of recoil management.

Honestly sad to see it cancelled and will be stocking up on spare parts that are not standard to the Sig classic line.

[Tamara]

As a lone data point, we had two 9mm P224s on the shelf at Indy Arms when I started working there in August of last year, before the store's grand opening. We sold one of them about a week before I quit in early February of this year. The other might still be there, but I haven't checked.

It's still there. A 9mm 224 SAS w/nights. Only a couple months away from being a year on the shelf...

[BehindBlueI's]

It's still there. A 9mm 224 SAS w/nights. Only a couple months away from being a year on the shelf...


They should put "discontinued - rare gun" on it, raise the price dramatically, and it'll be gone tomorrow. Worked for Colt revolvers...

[HCountyGuy]

Not really surprised by this. For many the average carrier, the go-to Sig for a CCW seems to be the 238 or 938, with the P320 variants steadily gaining momentum. Everything else is deemed "too heavy" by most.

Ive considered getting a P224 as a summer concealed carry piece. Not sure how this discontinuation will impact availability. If my new job pans out, I'll likely buy one sooner than later.

[Josh Runkle]

Not really surprised by this. For many the average carrier, the go-to Sig for a CCW seems to be the 238 or 938, with the P320 variants steadily gaining momentum. Everything else is deemed "too heavy" by most.

Ive considered getting a P224 as a summer concealed carry piece. Not sure how this discontinuation will impact availability. If my new job pans out, I'll likely buy one sooner than later.

For me, personally, I went with the version that has the E2 grips, which I like less and less on the 226 (used to love them), but for me, they are a must on the 224.

[WOLFIE]

Our LGS had one for about a year. Finally sold it off at a loss to get rid of it. It was a 9mm DAK with NS and 5 mags. He had listed at $500 and it still took a few weeks to move.

This is second hand, so take it with a grain of salt. Rumor is, Sig won the DHS pistol contract in 04 with the 229/239. The Glock 26 which had been issued was to be pulled from service. Rumor again is all the big wigs in DC were going to be first to hand in the 26, and be issued the new super duper 239. The big wigs went to the range to be issued the new pistol. They handled and shot the 239 and 26 side by side. Not a lot of 239 fans. By the following day, a memo came out re authorizing the 26 for duty. It was the same reaction in many offices. Close to 2000 agents opted to personal purchase a 26 over taking a free 239... Orders from DHS for 239 were scaled back. We call that a clue.

Sig took the hint. What did folks like about the 26? It was smaller, took the mags from the bigger gun, used the same holster as the bigger gun..... And off to the drawing board they went. The 224 was the result. But when they showed it to DHS, the response was "meh". The 10 year contract was half over. Folks were happy with the 26. And no one at HQ wanted to spend money to test the 224 to see if it could be adopted. It was a gun that had promise, but it was introduced too late. Apparently, no other big agencies cared either.

That is the RUMOR mill story of the 224. Take it for what it's worth. Bar stories told second hand over beers...

Thank you for sharing even if it is a rumor.

[WOLFIE]

Now that the P224 is discontinued, i want one more but I will buy a P239 instead. A P239 legion might be good. Maybe....just maybe....the round logo thing that makes the grip wider will be left off. I think it may be a good gun for IWB or AIWB.

[MGW]

Someone should tell Gander Mountain they're not popular. They had a couple in the case today for $999.

[WOLFIE]

Question: Does the P224 work with 229 or 226 magazines? I looked at the Sig website and got the impression only the newer 229 magazines will work.

[Gadfly]

Question: Does the P224 work with 229 or 226 magazines? I looked at the Sig website and got the impression only the newer 229 magazines will work.

I sure thought it was the 229 mag. But I have been wrong before...

[JDM]

I wonder if they will sell me a slide release lever now.

[GJM]

I sure thought it was the 229 mag. But I have been wrong before...

I thought it was designed for -1 229 magazines (the newer ones as opposed to 228 size) but since a 226 magazine is thinner, it will fit but perhaps be less reliable.

[DpdG]

My very limited experience has been trying to use a P226/40 mag in a P224/40 pistol. The magazine catch would not engage the mag with any semblance of reliability. We were trying 12 round Sig branded, MecGar produced magazines.

[GJM]

From the Sig website on the 224 .40:

The P224 accepts newer P229 magazines, allowing users to carry a full-size spare magazine as a backup to the flush-fit P224 magazine. Law enforcement officers will appreciate not having to carry separate magazines solely for their backup guns.

[Tamara]

Someone should tell Gander Mountain they're not popular. They had a couple in the case today for $999.

I know the one we had at work was slashed down to, like, 5% or 7% over cost and it's still just over eight bills.

[GJM]

I know the one we had at work was slashed down to, like, 5% or 7% over cost and it's still just over eight bills.

One in .357 has Tam written all over it.

[Hauptmann]

Law enforcement officers will appreciate not having to carry separate magazines solely for their backup guns.

I guess if the officer's uniform is a baggy shit-show, or they are an "operator" and wear BDUs and external vests they can pack that brick somewhere. The rest of us with traditional garb and tight appearance standards generally don't like it, even though the logistics of shared magazines makes a lot of sense.

[Josh Runkle]

Question: Does the P224 work with 229 or 226 magazines? I looked at the Sig website and got the impression only the newer 229 magazines will work.

I have only used the 224 in 9mm, so I don't know about .40, but the 9mm version I have will run with any of the 226 mags I have from Sig.

[GJM]

I guess if the officer's uniform is a baggy shit-show, or they are an "operator" and wear BDUs and external vests they can pack that brick somewhere. The rest of us with traditional garb and tight appearance standards generally don't like it, even though the logistics of shared magazines makes a lot of sense.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger -- that quote is by Sig, from their website.

[WOLFIE]

The P224 is probably too big to be carried in the front pocket of standard police uniform pants and it is heavy. It might work as an ankle gun but it would be a heavy ankle gun. Now it could be carried IWB (AIWB) when off duty. I was thinking of AIWB carrying it while off duty. I will most likely buy the P239 instead. The 12 round double stack 224 magazine is appealing. A double stack magazine is also easier to use when reloading than a single stack.

[Hauptmann]

The P224 is probably too big to be carried in the front pocket of standard police uniform pants and it is heavy. It might work as an ankle gun but it would be a heavy ankle gun. Now it could be carried IWB (AIWB) when off duty. I was thinking of AIWB carrying it while off duty. I will most likely buy the P239 instead. The 12 round double stack 224 magazine is appealing. A double stack magazine is also easier to use when reloading than a single stack.

IF you wanted an ankle gun, it needs to be under 20oz fully loaded, otherwise it will fly all over with even a fast walk.....let alone a pursuit. They are also in my opinion an officer safety concern as I have seen a few fall on the ground in a tussle. A backup needs to be no lower than your knee to allow for access without having to stop, bend over, expose your head, and potentially lose sight of the perp. As for reloads with a single stack, I always outran my coworkers with a P220 vs their P226/P228/P229.

You are making a much wiser decision going the P239 route.....particularly if you go 9mm. The only modification I recommend for it is swapping the factory plastic grips for some Hogue rubber wrap-around grips with finger grooves as it dramatically improves grip security, shooter performance, and decreases felt recoil. I just so happened to install a set of Trijicon HD sights on a 1995 P239 9mm today, and sighted it in at 25yrds. At 50yrds with a bench rest, I was able to go up and down a dueling tree mag after mag even with the large HD sights. The P239 design, with full length rails and a tighter barrel lockup, is capable of MUCH better accuracy than the P228/P229/P224 with their separated rails and looser barrel lockup.

[Josh Runkle]

The P224 is probably too big to be carried in the front pocket of standard police uniform pants and it is heavy. It might work as an ankle gun but it would be a heavy ankle gun. Now it could be carried IWB (AIWB) when off duty. I was thinking of AIWB carrying it while off duty. I will most likely buy the P239 instead. The 12 round double stack 224 magazine is appealing. A double stack magazine is also easier to use when reloading than a single stack.

I don't know about police uniform pants, but it's fine with fire/EMS uniform pants of many different types.

[WOLFIE]

I don't know about police uniform pants, but it's fine with fire/EMS uniform pants of many different types.

Cool.

[GJM]

You are making a much wiser decision going the P239 route.....particularly if you go 9mm. The only modification I recommend for it is swapping the factory plastic grips for some Hogue rubber wrap-around grips with finger grooves as it dramatically improves grip security, shooter performance, and decreases felt recoil. I just so happened to install a set of Trijicon HD sights on a 1995 P239 9mm today, and sighted it in at 25yrds. At 50yrds with a bench rest, I was able to go up and down a dueling tree mag after mag even with the large HD sights. The P239 design, with full length rails and a tighter barrel lockup, is capable of MUCH better accuracy than the P228/P229/P224 with their separated rails and looser barrel lockup.

I have never heard of a 239 being more accurate than a 228/229 before -- anything more you can add on this point?

[WOLFIE]

IF you wanted an ankle gun, it needs to be under 20oz fully loaded, otherwise it will fly all over with even a fast walk.....let alone a pursuit. They are also in my opinion an officer safety concern as I have seen a few fall on the ground in a tussle. A backup needs to be no lower than your knee to allow for access without having to stop, bend over, expose your head, and potentially lose sight of the perp. As for reloads with a single stack, I always outran my coworkers with a P220 vs their P226/P228/P229.

You are making a much wiser decision going the P239 route.....particularly if you go 9mm. The only modification I recommend for it is swapping the factory plastic grips for some Hogue rubber wrap-around grips with finger grooves as it dramatically improves grip security, shooter performance, and decreases felt recoil. I just so happened to install a set of Trijicon HD sights on a 1995 P239 9mm today, and sighted it in at 25yrds. At 50yrds with a bench rest, I was able to go up and down a dueling tree mag after mag even with the large HD sights. The P239 design, with full length rails and a tighter barrel lockup, is capable of MUCH better accuracy than the P228/P229/P224 with their separated rails and looser barrel lockup.

I have not heard anything about barrel lock up tightness until now. I would like a P239 (9mm is my choice) with a SRT, Hogue grips (G10 is good but aluminum is thinner), and HD Trijicon sights with the orange front sight. Also, the Cerakote FDE or even better- the grey legion finish would be nice and tougher than anodizing.

[Hauptmann]

I have never heard of a 239 being more accurate than a 228/229 before -- anything more you can add on this point?

Well I don't have any published data for you to read or anything, just many dozens of guns that I have sighted in for my agency over the years. At one office I was lucky enough to have a Ransom Rest which only further proved my observations. We went through a lot of old and new agency guns in 9, .40, and .45. The P228/P229 platform had the largest groupings of the guns we tested. The tightest shooting guns were the P220 .45, P225 9mm, and P239 9mm. I attribute much of that to the full length frame rails on these models which keeps the action tighter and gives it a longer service life to the rails and internal wear surfaces. The P228/P229 has less rail support, and over time the slide-to-frame fit loosens up at a more rapid rate. Sig claims that a loose slide-to-frame fit does not effect accuracy, but that has not been my observations as it creates more play between the slide and frame parts. The looser fit also seems to accelerate barrel lug wear as there is more room for the parts to build momentum before they wear against each other.

[GJM]

Well I don't have any published data for you to read or anything, just many dozens of guns that I have sighted in for my agency over the years. At one office I was lucky enough to have a Ransom Rest which only further proved my observations. We went through a lot of old and new agency guns in 9, .40, and .45. The P228/P229 platform had the largest groupings of the guns we tested. The tightest shooting guns were the P220 .45, P225 9mm, and P239 9mm. I attribute much of that to the full length frame rails on these models which keeps the action tighter and gives it a longer service life to the rails and internal wear surfaces. The P228/P229 has less rail support, and over time the slide-to-frame fit loosens up at a more rapid rate. Sig claims that a loose slide-to-frame fit does not effect accuracy, but that has not been my observations as it creates more play between the slide and frame parts. The looser fit also seems to accelerate barrel lug wear as there is more room for the parts to build momentum before they wear against each other.

TLG told me that he tested a bunch of P series Sig pistols, using a laser and shooting off a rest. He said every one was a one inch at 25 yards gun. Can you describe the size groups of the 239 and 228/229 -- we talking fractions of an inch or what?

I have never noticed a difference in accuracy between my 229 and 226 pistols, and my recent 229 Legion shoots awesome groups at 25.

[Hauptmann]

I have not heard anything about barrel lock up tightness until now. I would like a P239 (9mm is my choice) with a SRT, Hogue grips (G10 is good but aluminum is thinner), and HD Trijicon sights with the orange front sight. Also, the Cerakote FDE or even better- the grey legion finish would be nice and tougher than anodizing.


I guess I'm old school. I still like 1990s Sigs best, with German triggers and standard finishes. I have encountered problems with SRTs over the years, and trust the traditional trigger. Might be why the SRT was rejected by the Navy for their contract guns. I've tried both orange and yellow/green HDs, and greatly prefer the yellow/greens. They are significantly brighter in all lighting conditions, they retain an extra glow much longer, and my eyes just pick them up better in my periphery vision. The oranges are just not as bright. The only time the oranges seemed to work better was if I had a very bright green background(think rainforest), with bright sunlight. Under all other conditions, particularly lower light where most shootings take place, the yellow/greens were much better for me.

[GJM]

Deleted, duplicate post

[Hauptmann]

TLG told me that he tested a bunch of P series Sig pistols, using a laser and shooting off a rest. He said every one was a one inch at 25 yards gun. Can you describe the size groups of the 239 and 228/229 -- we talking fractions of an inch or what?

I have never noticed a difference in accuracy between my 229 and 226 pistols, and my recent 229 Legion shoots awesome groups at 25.


Well we didn't get 1" groups at 25yrds from ALL the Sigs. We used standard factory duty ammo which for us was Winchester Ranger Bonded in heavier grain weights for the caliber. The Ransom Rest is pretty solid, but maybe TLG had some other testing system? However, we did get 1.5-2" at 25yrds for the full frame rail guns with the deviation being calibers. The P228/P229s opened up to around 2.5", with the .40s ranging from 3-3.5"(less consistent).

[GJM]

Well we didn't get 1" groups at 25yrds from ALL the Sigs. We used standard factory duty ammo which for us was Winchester Ranger Bonded in heavier grain weights for the caliber. The Ransom Rest is pretty solid, but maybe TLG had some other testing system? However, we did get 1.5-2" at 25yrds for the full frame rail guns with the deviation being calibers. The P228/P229s opened up to around 2.5", with the .40s ranging from 3-3.5"(less consistent).

Todd said the key was the combination of shooting benched plus the laser to minimize sighting errors. I wasn't there, just repeating what he told me.

[WOLFIE]

I guess I'm old school. I still like 1990s Sigs best, with German triggers and standard finishes. I have encountered problems with SRTs over the years, and trust the traditional trigger. Might be why the SRT was rejected by the Navy for their contract guns. I've tried both orange and yellow/green HDs, and greatly prefer the yellow/greens. They are significantly brighter in all lighting conditions, they retain an extra glow much longer, and my eyes just pick them up better in my periphery vision. The oranges are just not as bright. The only time the oranges seemed to work better was if I had a very bright green background(think rainforest), with bright sunlight. Under all other conditions, particularly lower light where most shootings take place, the yellow/greens were much better for me.

I know that Sig will not phosphate the SRT. I heard of a brand new SRT breaking with less than a thousand rounds fired. I assumed it was simply a manufacturing defect; something that is not normal and unlikely.

[60Driver]

I can confirm -1 229 mags and all variants that I own of 226 mags run fine (factory 15 of various vintage and MecGar 15/18s). I read some discussion about hand pressure on 229/226 mags torqueing the mag and causing issues. Have not experienced that myself. In general the 40 variants seem to have been problem children. If Grey was right about insufficient spring (literally no room to get enough in) I would stick with 9mm for serious work.

Pocket carry = No for me, it is a HEAVY little tank of a gun. I chose it as I said, for a niche. I drive a desk now, but in a heightened threat environment I prefer a little more capacity. Bottom line for me is it is smallest gun I would want to get in a fight with. Same logic as a 26 for Glock shooters. Little gun that shoots like bigger gun, penalty is weight and width. I run in IWB at 15:30 and with good gear it is relatively comfortable. For those that do AIWB it should be a good choice.

I am also interested in 239 being "mechanically" more accurate out of a ransom than 228/229, not doubting, but while full length rails may make for a smoother cycling gun, barrel and slide fit "should" be the key driver for mechanical accuracy. Fully aware of the 239s capability, serious dudes used them, I just wanted the capacity both on the gun (12+1) and more importantly the ability to stuff 18 rounders into it that the 224 brought.

Interesting design change on the 224 is that the front rails are part of the locking block, theoretically meaning one could "tighten up" a high round count gun with change out.

[OlongJohnson]

Someone should tell Gander Mountain they're not popular. They had a couple in the case today for $999.

The local LGS has a modern Win 70 on the rack with $5500 on the tag. One of the sales guys has checked it repeatedly, and said that's correct based on the info in their system, including calling Win to confirm UPC, etc. A glitch that nobody in the store seems to have the authority to fix.

Their non-error prices on new guns are generally at or a little above MSRP. I believe they continue to exist based mostly on the ignorance of first-time buyers, or a population that doesn't feel a need to get a good price as much as they want to walk in and walk out. On a very rare occasion, you can find a deal on the used rack, in among the refinished surplus guns marked at higher than new-gun prices.

[SLG]

Todd said the key was the combination of shooting benched plus the laser to minimize sighting errors. I wasn't there, just repeating what he told me.

I did a lot of that with him, and he had very consistent results. Beretta's as well. All of my 229's over the years were well under 2" at 25, with some coming in right around the magic inch. After 60,000 rds, there was no appreciable difference.

Pure luck, but I had more than a few 3" groups at 60 yards with those guns as well. Sometimes it all works out. Sometimes it doesn't.

I admittedly know very little about how the different sigs differ in construction, but I've never heard of any Sig except the 210 having full length rails. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe we define this differently, IDK.

[MGW]

The local LGS has a modern Win 70 on the rack with $5500 on the tag. One of the sales guys has checked it repeatedly, and said that's correct based on the info in their system, including calling Win to confirm UPC, etc. A glitch that nobody in the store seems to have the authority to fix.

Their non-error prices on new guns are generally at or a little above MSRP. I believe they continue to exist based mostly on the ignorance of first-time buyers, or a population that doesn't feel a need to get a good price as much as they want to walk in and walk out. On a very rare occasion, you can find a deal on the used rack, in among the refinished surplus guns marked at higher than new-gun prices.

I'm not sure how our local Gander stays open at all. Very little traffic in and out of that stare. Fully expect them to close soon.

[SLG]

I just talked to a buddy at Sig. None of the guns we are discussing have full length rails, only the 210 has those.

The 239's are not inherently more accurate than the 229/226. The 220 is far and away the most accurate classic pistol.

None of that should be taken to mean that an individual sample of any of them might not be more accurate, but when you look at the numbers that Sig produces, the above is correct.


eta: the SEAL MK25's do have SRT's in them.

[LockedBreech]

The 220 is far and away the most accurate classic pistol.



Boy, and how. I shoot as well cold with the 220 as I do on pistols I have warmup and much more time with. I realize it doesn't have an amazing long-term durability rep, but mine can thread a needle.

[GJM]

Boy, and how. I shoot as well cold with the 220 as I do on pistols I have warmup and much more time with. I realize it doesn't have an amazing long-term durability rep, but mine can thread a needle.

And is that because the 220 is inherently more accurate, .45 is more accurate, the single stack frame makes it easier to press the trigger straight back, or some combination of all of that?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

One gun doesn't mean much but today, a guy had a new 224 in a match and it was quite grumpy. Much teasing ensued. Like I said, that's not a big sample.

[MGW]

eta: the SEAL MK25's do have SRT's in them.

I don't feel as operator now.

On a serious note, are they delivered that way from the contractor?

[SLG]

I don't feel as operator now.

On a serious note, are they delivered that way from the contractor?

Sorry, no idea. I just know what I was told today. Personally, I don't much care for the SRT.

[John Hearne]

Can't cite a source but I thought that the SRT parts were available for installation if a SEAL requested it.