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SansSouci
06-05-2016, 12:30 PM
I believe that the end game of unpatriotic traitors of the United States Constitution is deleting the Second Amendment from our constitution. The ultimate end game is the New World Order, AKA: one-world-government. Our Second Amendment is the only obstacle preventing politicians from officially telling us that the country created by our Founding Fathers no longer exists, that we are satellite state of a one-world-government.

The players of the end game can't do it with one act of legislation; however, the supreme court can opine that the Second Amendment doesn't mean what Madison meant, which would be an injustice, an act that the court has perfected. Absent an anti-Second Amendment majority, congress proceeds incrementally: one little law at a time until de facto gun confiscation occurs. And this will happen. We saw it happen during Hurricane Katrina when citizens most needed their guns. The government practiced gun confiscation during an operation in Arcadia, IA. Officials running the plan to commit the unconstitutional act of confiscating our lawfully owned property that is protected by the Second Amendment tried to spin it. However, those in Arcadia knew exactly what was happening. Governmental agents were practicing confiscating Americans' lawfully owned guns: http://www.infowars.com/iowa-national-guard-to-train-for-gun-confiscation/ BTW, I first heard of this illegal operation from a friend who lives in Iowa who told me about it. He told me that it was a gun confiscation exercise, not anything other.

There is no doubt in my mind that our federal government has an operational plan to disarm Americans. Recently, Obama said as much under the auspices of martial law.

When I was a cop, other cops and I knew that we would not be exempt from gun confiscation. As far as I know, we're the only country that allows off-duty and honorably retired cops to carry handguns. Our brethren in Canada have to leave their guns in their lockers when 10-7. I wouldn't be surprised to see a law that prevents cops from carrying their guns while off-duty.

If we know the end game, we can predict anti-Second Amendment radicals' tactics. Like the unconstitutional Roe decision (Google Scholar: Bork Roe), which accorded congress ability to defer their constitutional mandate of legislation to the court thus according them ability to run from legislation legalizing the murder of the most innocent among us, congress would prefer the court to opine that the Second Amendment doesn't mean what Madison meant. That way it could escape accountability for destroying our Second Amendment, which would be a spurious argument.

Our Founding Fathers did not intend the Supreme Court to be equal to the two most important branches of government. The Supreme Court does not mete out justice. It metes out political agenda. If this were not true, if law and justice were controlling, political party affiliation would be immaterial. Another important consideration is the fallacy of Republicans are conservatives. Bush 41 & Bush 43 were Republicans. They were not conservatives. In fact, when liberals jam me about how badly Bush 43 screwed up our country, my reply is, "Why are you jamming me? Bush 43 was one of you guys, a liberal." We now know for certain that Romney is who we knew was in '12, which was why conservatives refused to support him.

Off of the top of my head, Samuel Chase was the last Supreme Court justice to have been impeached and removed. This is a very sad commentary of our legislative process. Does congress really want me to believe that since the late 18th or early 19th century, there has been only one justice impeached? Taney, after his Dred Scott decision, should've been impeached. Taney's objective, a Democrat, was to undermine Lincoln's presidential campaign platform. His decision had zero to do with justice. Warren Burger should have been impeached for his Roe. Earl Warren should have been impeached for routinely usurping congress's constitutional authority and blatant disregard for our constitution. Hugo Black should've been impeached for Everson. All seven justices in Plessy should have been impeached. So why did congress protect activist supreme court justices? Because they were patsies for congress. Congress needed them in order to insulate themselves from rebuke for unconstitutional decisions.

I do expect to see gun confiscation in my lifetime. Cops will not be exempt. They'll be issued guns upon going 10-8 and return them to agencies' armorers upon 10-7. However, America's ruling elite and those whom protect them will be exempt from gun confiscation. They will keep their guns. The rest of us will have our private property confiscated.

This is the absolute best treatise I've read that definitively explicates how America is ruled by a cartel of elites that feign affiliation with Democratic and Republican parties. They eat, drink, socialize, and sleep together: http://spectator.org/39326_americas-ruling-class-and-perils-revolution/ There is a reason why GOP elites, power brokers, and insiders are deathly afraid of a Trump presidency. Most frightened seem to be the Bush Cartel. What secrets are they afraid of being revealed to President Trump? I didn't know until recently that Nancy Reagan believed that Bush 41 was involved in President Reagan's assassination attempt. She was probably right. Bush 41 should have been done for murder during WWII: http://whowhatwhy.org/2014/09/02/an-enduring-mystery-about-bush-41s-wwii-escape-from-death/ Bush 41 has also been implicated in the murder of JFK. Family of Secrets exposed the Bush Cartel's crimes: http://www.amazon.com/Family-Secrets-Americas-Invisible-Government/dp/1608190064/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1465146710&sr=1-1&keywords=family+of+secrets

We, the People are no longer sovereign as our Founding Fathers intended:

"There is hardly a part of the United States where men are not aware that secret private purposes and interests have been running the government."
---US President Woodrow Wilson---

We are ruled. We haven't been governed since the Federal Reserve Act. The Federal Reserve Act has stripped Americans of individual liberties that are deemed dangerous to America's ruling elite. We, the People must regain control of our government. We can't blame politicians for confiscating our Guns. We have to blame ourselves for voting for traitors. Bush 43 said that he'd of signed Brady Bill renewing legislation if congress had presented it to him. His daddy did sign gun control legislation. We must not be duped by the false assumption that Republicans will protect our Second Amendment, for they are within America's ruling elite.

If you know what's likely to occur, you can prepare. Look for an excuse for a declaration of martial law. The excuse could be real or phony. The intent is to create an excuse to confiscate our guns. Then think about how federal agents could accomplish their plan. Going door-to-door is probably their last tactic. Rather, the feds would prefer that we voluntarily turn in our guns. So how could it convince us to turn in our guns? If anyone has studied Stalin's forced famine that killed tens of millions or the Iranian Holocaust that exterminated up to half of its population, we can make valid predictions. The most practical method of absolute control over us is by denying food. And their is no doubt in my mind that this is the primary tactic of the fed's operational plan for confiscating American's guns. How many nights will Americans send their children to bed hungry before they trade their guns for food? We'll turn in our guns and federal agents will give us food vouchers. How long a food supply will last should be question that needs answering. But you get the idea.

The feds also have a plan of converting local cops in to agents of the federal government. Obama has already floated the idea of a national police force. But was it an idea or reality? I'm going with the latter. I'd go with the fed's plan consisting of federal agents attending every police agency briefing in the country where cops will be forced to swear allegiance to the federal government thus becoming federal agents or being fired. The federal government has to control us in order to retain control of what has become a de facto totalitarian government that oversees everything we do 24/7/365.

Most politicians, Republicans and Democrats, are neoconservatives. Neoconservatives are more harmful to Americans' lives than was Genrikh Yagoda and his Chekas who murdered at least 10 million Christians: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html Neoconservatives' plan is to use the democratic process to dupe Americans into voting to enslave themselves:

"So, what is to be done? How can America be saved from her dangerous fascination with liberty? Irving Kristol came up with the solution that has become the cornerstone of neoconservative policies: use democracy to defeat liberty. Turn the people against their own liberty. Convince them that liberty is licentiousness - that liberty undermines piety, leads to crime, drugs, rampant homosexuality, children out of wedlock, and family breakdown. And worse of all, liberalism is soft on communism or terrorism - whatever happens to be the enemy of the moment. [B]And if you can convince the people that liberty undermines their security, then, you will not have to take away their liberty; they will gladly renounce it."

Source: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6750.htm

The only authentic conservatives in the '16 Republican Primary were Paul, Carson, and Trump. Yes, Ted Cruz, by definition, is a neocon.

Our Founding Fathers were all noninterventionists. President Washington, in his Farewell Address, told us to say the hell outta other countries' internal affairs (mind our own damned business) and to avoid entangling alliances (treaties), for both will destroy the country they've created. When you hear a person call a noninterventionist the highly pejorative isolationist, the one using the noun isolationist is a neocon. A primary objective of neocons is the removal of Madison's Second Amendment from our constitution, which might be moot since neocons don't believe in or abide by our constitution.

The country that our Founding Fathers' created ceased to exist when the Federal Reserve Act was passed. We are far from a free people. We can do only that which our omnipotent federal government allows us to do. But we can take back our country. We must vote out every single neocon holding any political office. A great way to identify a neocon is whether they are interventionists. That's a dead giveaway. I've donated to Paul Nahlen's campaign to defeat the inveterate neocon, Paul Ryan. He's a sellout. He'll take our guns just as quickly as Chuck Schumer and Diane Feinstein.

There is a reason that neocons are scared sh@tless of Donald Trump. That reason alone is enough for him to have my support. In fact, I've donated directly to his campaign, and I've walked precincts for him. No neocon Republican would ever build a fence. That is antithetical to the New World Order, which is code for one-world-government. Trump knows that without secure borders, we have no country, which is the goal of neocons. I will never again donate a nickel to the Republican Party. I will donate only to candidates I want elected. Republican Party power brokers take our money and militate against us with it. In fact, I wouldn't care if the Republican Party were to wither away on an outbound zephyr. I'd love to see an authentic conservative party that is not a big tent. If Karl Rove, the Bush Cartel, Fox News, et al are part of a party, I'd want no part of it. None of them are conservatives. Fox News is the Neocon News Network. Bill O'Reilly supported Hurricane Katrina gun confiscation.

BTW, Trump is 100% right about getting us the heck outta NATO. We don't need NATO. NATO has the power to destroy our country. In fact, as we were admonished by President Washington, we need to extricate ourselves from every military treaty. We don't need other countries. They need us; more specifically, they need our soldiers dying for their benefit. Even better, I hope President Trump evicts the UN from Manhattan. Our Founding Fathers would roll over in their graves if they knew that we've allowed an American sovereignty compromising outfit within the country they've created.

This has become far more involved that I had intended. We have to become more politically astute. We have to know from whence we came to know where we are. We are not the country our Founding Fathers' created. We are a lot closer to a totalitarian regime where government controls us 24/7/365. Their primary method of control are laws that we must obey, but the ruling elite doesn't; hence, the Clintons escaping RICO for their criminal foundation that launders illegally obtained money.

State and local cops ought to know whether they might be forced to swear an oath to the feds thus becoming part of a federal police force, a concept our Founding Fathers feared.

We ought to engage in Socratic debate to determine indicators that gun confiscation in imminent and methods of confiscation. We must remain vigilant to attacks upon our Second Amendment. We must vote out every neocon, Republican and Democratic.

Keep a sharp eye on the NRA. While it claims to be a defender of the Second Amendment, it has supported gun control many times. I dropped out of the NRA when it supported Bush 41's gun control legislation. It might be a good idea to Google: "gun control laws NRA has supported." I've rejoined some 20 years later. But if it were to even remotely try to sell me on propriety of any gun control law again, I'll be gone for good.

Every single state and local law enforcement agency in our nation operates under the direct purview of our federal government. The fed's tactics of control are grant money that it will withhold if an agency deviates from federal rules and the ever-present latent threat of federal prosecution of the US Attorney's Office.

If the feds regulate the Internet, we ought to predict that bad acts will follow.

Tamara
06-05-2016, 12:48 PM
I seem to have temporarily lost the ability to even.

SansSouci
06-05-2016, 12:53 PM
Hi Tom,

Thanks. I agree with your decision.

JR1572
06-05-2016, 12:54 PM
Yeah, I don't come here for the tin foil.

JR1572

Drang
06-05-2016, 12:54 PM
It just isn't right that I be faced with such dilemmas first thing in a Sunday morning.

What dilemma, you ask? Whether to click "Ignore Thread" because my arteries just don't need pressure testing, or to keep coming back to a thread that cites infowars as a source...

hufnagel
06-05-2016, 01:04 PM
thanks Tom!!!

http://6336-presscdn-26-82.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/foil.0_cinema_1200.0.png

Josh Runkle
06-05-2016, 01:06 PM
Are there people that want guns gone? Yes. Are they actively working to do it? Yes. Are there people who want guns to stay in the hands of the population? Yes. Are they actively working to do it? Yes.

This debate has two sides. We (gun owners/gun rights advocates) have recently made huge strides forward in recent years, too. Look at CCW and things like NFA ownership and hunting with suppressors, castle doctrine, etc...

There are two sides to the coin.

You mentioned some negatives about the NRA, which have certainly been true in the past (like 10-50 years ago), but doesn't seem at all to be similar to the current NRA, any cases they've supported, and publications they've put out, and so on and so forth. Luckily, you don't have to like or support them. There's no constitutional requirement to do so. However, there is a constitutional requirement to keep congress out of the business of regulating anything related to people's personal weapons (which, they really haven't ever done. They've just imposed controls on money spent on guns, or levied taxes and then controlled who can pay the taxes, etc.). The NRA has consistently been in the business of trying to protect that second amendment right, and, as long as they do so, I would suggest that the best way to address concerns like the ones that you have would be to support the NRA (and organizations like them), not merely with your money, but also with your time. If you feel THAT strongly about the course of the nation and worry about the course of the NRA, get involved, and help shape the course of the NRA and organizations like it.

SansSouci
06-05-2016, 01:28 PM
It just isn't right that I be faced with such dilemmas first thing in a Sunday morning.

What dilemma, you ask? Whether to click "Ignore Thread" because my arteries just don't need pressure testing, or to keep coming back to a thread that cites infowars as a source...

Are you implying that the information from Infowars is incorrect? How do you determine whether information is accurate? Would you discount information given to you by a psychotic, homeless person?

A wise person would read the information and reconcile it with his prior knowledge to determine veracity.

BTW, were you inclined to pursue knowledge, you could Google, "Gun confiscation Arcadia, IA." You'll find plethora article about it. Are they all wrong?

I'm not sure of what you do for a living, but cops know to never summarily dismiss information without ascertaining its validity. It might just be that a psychotic, homeless man really did witness a crime and knows who committed it. A cop would be derelict to dismiss information because of its source.

BTW, most crimes are solved by use of criminal informants. Dirtbags will snitch each other off in a New York second. Would you dismiss information given to you by a principal to a crime because he's a dirtbag.

My guess is you are looking for an excuse to deny the content of my post. My suggestion is to peruse it for factual content.

I can lead a horse to water...

Odin Bravo One
06-05-2016, 01:32 PM
Never happen.

Ain't enough cops to do it.

Ain't enough cops to come take mine, let alone the rest of the country.

SansSouci
06-05-2016, 01:37 PM
Josh,

MO is a powerful predictor of future actions. I will concede that the NRA, after it endorsed Bush 41's gun control legislation and lost a huge number of members, has seemed to change. I am hoping it has. However, I do not know, neither does anyone, that it will not revert to its past acts of supporting gun control. That's why I've suggested that we keep an eye on it. I don't want anymore compromised gun control legislation. I want it to fight all gun control legislation without compromise, for compromise is how we're arrived are where we now are: one little compromise at a time.

The fact is the Second Amendment is controlling. There are no conditions within Madison's Second Amendment. Article V of the the United States Constitution makes it the supreme law of the land. Therefore, the only legal way to enact gun control is to amend the constitution. Since gun controllers know that'll never happen, they've resorted to violating the supreme law of the land and justifying it with spurious arguments.

The Second Amendment is the supreme law of the land. Enforce the damned law. Why aren't our politicians abiding by our constitution?

Josh Runkle
06-05-2016, 01:43 PM
Are you implying that the information from Infowars is incorrect? How do you determine whether information is accurate? Would you discount information given to you by a psychotic, homeless person?

A wise person would read the information and reconcile it with his prior knowledge to determine veracity.

BTW, were you inclined to pursue knowledge, you could Google, "Gun confiscation Arcadia, IA." You'll find plethora article about it. Are they all wrong?

I'm not sure of what you do for a living, but cops know to never summarily dismiss information without ascertaining its validity. It might just be that a psychotic, homeless man really did witness a crime and knows who committed it. A cop would be derelict to dismiss information because of its source.

BTW, most crimes are solved by use of criminal informants. Dirtbags will snitch each other off in a New York second. Would you dismiss information given to you by a principal to a crime because he's a dirtbag.

My guess is you are looking for an excuse to deny the content of my post. My suggestion is to peruse it for factual content.

I can lead a horse to water...

Information being true or false is different than information being credible.

For example: Elvis or Jim Morrison could actually be alive somewhere. Or people could actually have seen UFOs that were actually from another planet. Hilary Clinton may actually have had an affair with Yoko Ono. However, it is statistically unlikely that any of these events have occurred, and even less likely that all three have occurred.

So, for something like the National Enquirer, they blast sensationalized stories like all three of those, constantly. They are not in the business of trying to convey truth by stating "This is the truth", they are in the business of asking questions about whether or not things are true, and then leaving it for readers to decide for themselves.

In the case of infowars, the blaze, huffington post, the drudge report, breitbart and many, many other "news" organizations, all of varying degrees of individual credibility, they are all in the business of either "asking questions" or giving editorialized opinions, but not actually stating facts that are confirmed by multiple sources as truth.

So, typically, an existing picture of a hybrid human-horse, might be an initial idea to ponder and then use the scientific method to attempt to verify, and then have peers review the facts found in the results, and then re-verify them...but it is not, in fact truth.

So, long answer short: typically, people get frustrated when others cite "sources" that are not factual as if they are factual.

SansSouci
06-05-2016, 01:46 PM
Never happen.

Ain't enough cops to do it.

Ain't enough cops to come take mine, let alone the rest of the country.

Sean, can you predict how the feds could confiscate our guns?

Did you see how confiscation was effected in New Orleans?

Never say never. My advice is to think about how it could be done. And it wouldn't have to be done in one comprehensive action. It might take months or longer.

I think that it's a better idea to take assertive action to assure that our Second Amendment remains just as Madison wrote it. The best way to do that is to vote out neocons.

Gray222
06-05-2016, 01:49 PM
The gov will never act so brazenly, even if hitlery is elected.

They will be surreptitious in their execution, ammo permits, etc...

If they try to just go out and full on large scale confiscation there will be a lot of issues, the US will endure a second civil war.

RevolverRob
06-05-2016, 01:54 PM
In fact, as we were admonished by President Washington, we need to extricate ourselves from every military treaty.

Whut? Have you even read Washington's Farewell Address? http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp

Washington wrote,
It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them.

Taking care always to keep ourselves by suitable establishments on a respectable defensive posture, we may safely trust to temporary alliances for extraordinary emergencies.

I'm done, don't feed trolls, or argue with derp. Derp is highly skilled and will inevitably drag you down to its level and beat you with eons of experience.

Josh Runkle
06-05-2016, 01:54 PM
Why aren't our politicians abiding by our constitution?

Because both political parties, at various times, depending on the topic, switch between believing whether the constitution is a living document or not.

The politicians in this country dutifully believe that they must represent the wishes of their constituents.

Roughly half of the country hates or loves guns, and roughly half of the politicians feel the same way. Many people in this country want guns gone at any cost, even if it means violence, and so the politicians work at any cost, even around the constitution, to avoid violence. On the other side, many would uphold and protect the constitution or their constitutional right at any cost, including violence, even if the second amendment were changed, and so, politicians work to represent those views as well, to avoid violence.

My basic message is: half the people in this country somewhat agree with your basic premise, and half the country doesn't. We have to learn to play well with others and respectfully make our viewpoints known.

Josh Runkle
06-05-2016, 01:57 PM
Whut? Have you even read Washington's Farewell Address? http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp

Washington wrote...

To the OP:

See: that's how you cite something!

DiscipulusArmorum
06-05-2016, 02:00 PM
http://i65.tinypic.com/2r7ujxz.jpg

SansSouci
06-05-2016, 02:01 PM
Information being true or false is different than information being credible.

For example: Elvis or Jim Morrison could actually be alive somewhere. Or people could actually have seen UFOs that were actually from another planet. Hilary Clinton may actually have had an affair with Yoko Ono. However, it is statistically unlikely that any of these events have occurred, and even less likely that all three have occurred.

So, for something like the National Enquirer, they blast sensationalized stories like all three of those, constantly. They are not in the business of trying to convey truth by stating "This is the truth", they are in the business of asking questions about whether or not things are true, and then leaving it for readers to decide for themselves.

In the case of infowars, the blaze, huffington post, the drudge report, breitbart and many, many other "news" organizations, all of varying degrees of individual credibility, they are all in the business of either "asking questions" or giving editorialized opinions, but not actually stating facts that are confirmed by multiple sources as truth.

So, typically, an existing picture of a hybrid human-horse, might be an initial idea to ponder and then use the scientific method to attempt to verify, and then have peers review the facts found in the results, and then re-verify them...but it is not, in fact truth.

So, long answer short: typically, people get frustrated when others cite "sources" that are not factual as if they are factual.

Which source did I cite that you think is not factual?

The best sources of information are primary source documents. That requires a lot of reading. Not many have actually have read our constitution let alone The Federalist Papers. Most Americans actually believe separation of church and state and innocent until proved guilty are in our constitution.

How many Americans would you suppose have read actual correspondence of our Founding Fathers that were written during the Constitutional Convention? They explain the beliefs of Founding Fathers.

Do you believe this source: http://johneidsmoe.homestead.com/federalistpapers.html

Eidsmoe wrote this book: http://www.christianbook.com/christianity-constitution-faith-our-founding-fathers/john-eidsmoe/9780801052316/pd/52319

I've read it, and it's in my library. Eidsmoe is a lawyer and college professor. His book contains primary source documents that refute the heck outta Hugo Black's political decision in Everson. Black either lied or was stupid. Separation of church and state was first mentioned in a letter of Thomas Jefferson. He meant it to be church must be protected from an illegitimate government, not vice versa as cited by Black and taught in America's public schools. Moreover, Jefferson wasn't at the Constitutional Convention. He was in France.

A basis of knowledge is necessary in order to determine veracity of non-primary source documents.

Best of luck to you.

SansSouci
06-05-2016, 02:02 PM
Josh,

Believe me, I know how to cite something.

Now tell me, what did I cite that you think is not factual?

Josh Runkle
06-05-2016, 02:10 PM
Which source did I cite that you think is not factual?


Infowars. As I stated earlier. They're not largely considered to be a credible source.

Like: Hilary Clinton might tell me that a video caused a riot in Benghazi. That might be true, or it might not be true, but she is a politician, and so she has agendas, and so, I do not consider her to be a "credible" source of information, regardless of whether it is actually true or not.

Same with your earlier posting. Whether the facts are or are not as stated is not the issue, it is the source. It cannot be considered fact when coming from that resource.

SansSouci
06-05-2016, 02:11 PM
Josh,

That our constitution is a living document is the spurious argument of neocons. They use it as justification to do what the heck they want, the constitution be damned. Our constitution created a constitutional republic. It was intended to be our organic law. It was intended to limit government and preserve maximum individual liberty. It was never intended to be a living document, for everything living will die. It is as valid today as it was on September 17, 1787. That treasonous politicians have sold gullible Americans that it can be interpreted as necessary has put us on the path of despotism.

A living constitution is not a constitution. It is a set of guidelines and opinions of how government ought to work according to the one creating guidelines and forming opinions.

SansSouci
06-05-2016, 02:16 PM
Infowars. As I stated earlier. They're not largely considered to be a credible source.

Like: Hilary Clinton might tell me that a video caused a riot in Benghazi. That might be true, or it might not be true, but she is a politician, and so she has agendas, and so, I do not consider her to be a "credible" source of information, regardless of whether it is actually true or not.

Same with your earlier posting. Whether the facts are or are not as stated is not the issue, it is the source. It cannot be considered fact when coming from that resource.

Josh, what in the article do you think is not factual.

Source is nowhere near as important as validity of information.

If I give you another source that reads the same, would you believe it? How about this one: http://www.fieldandstream.com/forums/backlash-and-blowback/carroll-national-guard-conduct-door-door-gun-confiscation-drills-arcadi

Have you sought the opinion of the NRA on the Arcadia, IA gun confiscation operation? I'm curious of its take on it. Who knows, it might be on the NRA's Website.

Wondering Beard
06-05-2016, 02:19 PM
Josh,

That our constitution is a living document is the spurious argument of neocons. It was intended to be our organic law. It was never intended to be a living document, for everything living will die.

I'm not commenting on the rest of your posts, thoughts opinions or sources for the former, I'm only commenting on the above: that's a contradiction.

SansSouci
06-05-2016, 02:20 PM
Josh,

So you position is not whether the information is valid, it's with the infowar source. Is that right? Can you tell me how you know that the infowars link is invalid?

BTW, as I included in my original post, I was first told of the Arcadia, IA operation from a friend who lives in Iowa. He told me that the prevailing wisdom of those living in Arcadia, IA was that it was in fact a training exercise to disarm Americans.

SansSouci
06-05-2016, 02:21 PM
I'm not commenting on the rest of your posts, thoughts opinions or sources for the former, I'm only commenting on the above: that's a contradiction.

Explain how it is a contradiction.

Wondering Beard
06-05-2016, 02:22 PM
Basically, if it's organic, it's alive.

Josh Runkle
06-05-2016, 02:23 PM
Basically, if it's organic, it's alive.

Uh, oh. You're getting sucked in too.

Wondering Beard
06-05-2016, 02:29 PM
Yeah, but I couldn't help myself.

Maybe I should leave the internet for a bit.

Odin Bravo One
06-05-2016, 02:32 PM
deleted for more appropriate post.

Odin Bravo One
06-05-2016, 02:33 PM
Fuck it. I'll say it.

You are precisely what I was referring to in the fucking idiots section.

Josh Runkle
06-05-2016, 02:33 PM
Josh,

So you position is not whether the information is valid, it's with the infowar source. Is that right? Can you tell me how you know that the infowars link is invalid?

BTW, as I included in my original post, I was first told of the Arcadia, IA operation from a friend who lives in Iowa. He told me that the prevailing wisdom of those living in Arcadia, IA was that it was in fact a training exercise to disarm Americans.

I didn't say that what you said was untrue. I said that you quoted a source that was not credible.

That leads me to question your thinking as a whole. "How does this person get their information before they process it?" You have a friend who lives in the same state as the exercise. So, I have your subjective experience of a conversation about someone else's subjective experience.

I'm not saying that anything you are/were saying is untrue. However, the way in which you conveyed the information showed that you obtain information in a non-credible manner, which leads me to take what you say as less-credible.

Truth is related to fact. Fact is separate from argument or viewpoint. If you want to convey fact/truth, then before I will believe you, you must become credible, and you do that by establishing yourself as a credible witness/subject matter expert, or by presenting a credible witness or subject matter expert.

Josh Runkle
06-05-2016, 02:36 PM
...and I'm bowing out now. I apologize if I offended you at all.

Based on the original post, I hope you find some optimism in the recent 2A wins over the last 10 years, rather than just looking at the looming clouds on the horizon. Be the change that you want to see in the world. If you don't feel like there's enough advocacy for gun rights, do something about that. If you are worried about "neo-cons", then support other candidates or run against them yourself.

chl442
06-05-2016, 02:43 PM
Fuck it. I'll say it.

You are precisely what I was referring to in the fucking idiots section.

I have to agree with Sean here on this.
I thought this guy was gone after his first time he came to this forum to troll and stir up shit.
Some people.

SansSouci
06-05-2016, 02:44 PM
Basically, if it's organic, it's alive.

Definition of organic law as relating to government:

"of, relating to, or constituting the law by which a government or organization exists"

Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/organic

Think of our constitution as our fundamental and controlling law. Our Founding Fathers included Article V of the United States Constitution as legal procedure for altering it.

Here's a legal definition of organic law: http://thelawdictionary.org/organic-law/

In terms of government and not biology, organic means fundamental law.

SansSouci
06-05-2016, 02:52 PM
I didn't say that what you said was untrue. I said that you quoted a source that was not credible.

That leads me to question your thinking as a whole. "How does this person get their information before they process it?" You have a friend who lives in the same state as the exercise. So, I have your subjective experience of a conversation about someone else's subjective experience.

I'm not saying that anything you are/were saying is untrue. However, the way in which you conveyed the information showed that you obtain information in a non-credible manner, which leads me to take what you say as less-credible.

Truth is related to fact. Fact is separate from argument or viewpoint. If you want to convey fact/truth, then before I will believe you, you must become credible, and you do that by establishing yourself as a credible witness/subject matter expert, or by presenting a credible witness or subject matter expert.

Josh,

I'm 100% good with what you believe. After all, you're the one believing it.

However, what I did write is factual. There are plethora of sources to validate it. But in the end, what you believe is up to you. Some people still believe that Romney is conservative. Some people posture themselves and refuse to leave their normalcy biases.

HCM
06-05-2016, 02:54 PM
A sincere thank you to both Sean M and Tom_Jones - your contributions have stated everything I cared to say in this thread.

SansSouci
06-05-2016, 03:21 PM
Whut? Have you even read Washington's Farewell Address? http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp

Washington wrote,

I'm done, don't feed trolls, or argue with derp. Derp is highly skilled and will inevitably drag you down to its level and beat you with eons of experience.

Yes, Bob, I've read it. And I know exactly what President Washington meant, which is not as you've posted.

"Nonetheless, Washington issued the proclamation, warning American citizens to avoid involvement in the hostilities, a strictly European war. This admonition proved to be a harbinger of one of Washington’s themes in his Farewell Address to the Nation, three and a half years later in which he would warn against America’s involvement in “permanent alliances.”

President Washington's only executive order was his Neutrality Act:

By THE PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES of America,
A PROCLAMATION

Whereas it appears that a state of war exists between Austria, Prussia, Sardinia, Great Britain, and the United Netherlands, of the one part, and France on the other; and the duty and interest of the United States require, that they should with sincerity and good faith adopt and pursue a conduct friendly and impartial toward the belligerant Powers;

I have therefore thought fit by these presents to declare the disposition of the United States to observe the conduct aforesaid towards those Powers respectfully; and to exhort and warn the citizens of the United States carefully to avoid all acts and proceedings whatsoever, which may in any manner tend to contravene such disposition.

And I do hereby also make known, that whatsoever of the citizens of the United States shall render himself liable to punishment or forfeiture under the law of nations, by committing, aiding, or abetting hostilities against any of the said Powers, or by carrying to any of them those articles which are deemed contraband by the modern usage of nations, will not receive the protection of the United States, against such punishment or forfeiture; and further, that I have given instructions to those officers, to whom it belongs, to cause prosecutions to be instituted against all persons, who shall, within the cognizance of the courts of the United States, violate the law of nations, with respect to the Powers at war, or any of them.

In testimony whereof, I have caused the seal of the United States of America to be affixed to these presents, and signed the same with my hand. Done at the city of Philadelphia, the twenty-second day of April, one thousand seven hundred and ninety-three, and of the Independence of the United States of America the seventeenth.

GEORGE WASHINGTON
April 22, 1793

Source:http://www.earlyamerica.com/milestone-events/proclamation-neutrality/

StrikerFire
06-05-2016, 03:55 PM
Neutralize the derp.

This link takes you to CSAT and a piece Paul Howe wrote in 2013 on the 2nd/Coming for your guns theme.

It might be a more enjoyable read...


http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/published/2nd_amen.pdf

hufnagel
06-05-2016, 05:03 PM
Fuck it. I'll say it.

You are precisely what I was referring to in the fucking idiots section.

I don't 'Like' a lot of posts, but when I do (like this one) they're quality.

LittleLebowski
06-05-2016, 06:04 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/Extorris/In/msz9h_zps816ffb76.gif

.....

Odin Bravo One
06-05-2016, 06:24 PM
I tried putting it nicely. We will try blunt this time since you didn't get the hint.

STFU about your bullshit already. You're acting like a fucking moron. Go to ar15.com with this retarded blather. We don't want it polluting an otherwise informative forum.

JR1572
06-05-2016, 06:33 PM
I tried putting it nicely. We will try blunt this time since you didn't get the hint.

STFU about your bullshit already. You're acting like a fucking moron. Go to ar15.com with this retarded blather. We don't want it polluting an otherwise informative forum.

YESSSSS!!!!!!!

JR1572