Glock Polymer Life Expectancy

[BES]

Does anyone have or know of any data on Glocks that have been around for a LONG time and whether or not the polymer starts to break down overtime? I'm curious if a Glock will last forever and not breakdown if stored for years? Say you wanted to pass it off to your kids and their kids or keep it tucked away for many years. I just wonder if it would make it compared to something like a full steel 1911 wrapped in packing grease.

[Handy]

It's reinforced nylon with carbon black (in the black ones) to resist UV damage. One of the things that damages nylon over time is water/humidity.

There have got to be some 60 year old Remington Nylon 66 rifles out there working fine. Nylon is pretty stable. But it is plastic, which means that it chemically changes just sitting there. You could put a metal pistol in storage for 500 years and you'd have to replace the grips, but that's about it. I would not expect plastic to be shootable over a very long time period - especially something like a Glock that flexes a lot when fired. It really is just a question of how long, which is going to be use + environment.

[M2CattleCo]

I've seen a lot of old 2nd and early 3rd gen guns with chips chipped out of the magwell opening. They still seem flexible if you squeeze the grip, but they definitely seem to have degraded.

I'm more of a classic Sig guy and if their plastic degrades, they'll be just as useless.

[HCM]

I'm more of a classic Sig guy and if their plastic degrades, they'll be just as useless.

https://www.hogueinc.com/grips/sigsauer/p226/dasa/aluminum

[HCM]

It's reinforced nylon with carbon black (in the black ones) to resist UV damage. One of the things that damages nylon over time is water/humidity.

There have got to be some 60 year old Remington Nylon 66 rifles out there working fine. Nylon is pretty stable. But it is plastic, which means that it chemically changes just sitting there. You could put a metal pistol in storage for 500 years and you'd have to replace the grips, but that's about it. I would not expect plastic to be shootable over a very long time period - especially something like a Glock that flexes a lot when fired. It really is just a question of how long, which is going to be use + environment.

So would other polymer frames fare better ? The HK polymer is noticeably stiffer and seems to hold up better to wear.

[jkb4c]

The polymer actually begins to degrade as soon as it leaves the mold, albeit slowly. As previously pointed out, UV and moisture will accelerate breakdown of the polymer. I asked a polymer chemist about this very question a few months back; he said that he would expect Nylon 6,6 (similar to Glock's recipe) to last quite a while, but that he wouldn't expect it to survive as long as a metal pistol, assuming proper corrosion prevention, etc.

That said, polymers/plastics have come quite a long way in the last decade or so. I wonder if a good ceramic coating - ex. Cerakote - would help to block UV degradation of the polymer and thus extend the life of the frame? Probably overkill, but if you are interested in storing the gun for a long, long time, it might be worth researching.

[warpedcamshaft]

Here you go :) (aluminium Glock frame): http://www.ccfraceframes.com/advantage.php

[Josh Runkle]

Passing on a GLOCK is like passing on a screwdriver. It's a memento, but it's never gonna be worth anything.

[HCM]

Here you go :) (aluminium Glock frame): http://www.ccfraceframes.com/advantage.php

Where's the vomit emoji ?

[Handy]

So would other polymer frames fare better ? The HK polymer is noticeably stiffer and seems to hold up better to wear.

Stiffer overall doesn't necessarily mean that individual parts of the frame aren't being stressed more than a flexy frame. I think it would be hard to predict. As the plastic degrades it will reach a point where it no longer is up to the job. When that happens the frame will either crack, tear or crumble depending on what kind of forces are going through it.

Plastic guns are for today. They are inexpensive to make and should be viewed as disposable in the long term. If you want an inexpensive heirloom or don't know if the zombie apocalypse is going to take 50 years, buy a CZ, 5906, K9, 1911, etc. You can always replace the grips with wood.

I really like the idea of guns that could withstand a lot of shooting and time. I have a 1951 M/49 that will be shootable for the foreseeable future.

[Handy]

Here you go :) (aluminium Glock frame): http://www.ccfraceframes.com/advantage.php

I never understood how they were going to get tiny Glock frame rails to hold up in aluminum.

[43Under]

I recall when Glock stopped making OD frames for a bit (2009?) when Glock said that the OD does not resist UV as well as black and therefore had a shorter anticipated lifespan. It was all over Glocktalk at the time but was straight from Smyrna.

[Handy]

I recall when Glock stopped making OD frames for a bit (2009?) when Glock said that the OD does not resist UV as well as black and therefore had a shorter anticipated lifespan. It was all over Glocktalk at the time but was straight from Smyrna.

That's funny. I mused pretty much the same thing when tan and green frames first came out on another forum. Carbon black is very effective as a stabilizer.

[RJ]

Passing on a GLOCK is like passing on a screwdriver. It's a memento, but it's never gonna be worth anything.

Yeah, kinda scratched my head over that one.

On the topic, does anyone know how the polymers of today compare with plastic of yesteryear? A relative of mine has a WWII bringback Walther P38. The grips are some kind of plastic; would they be end of life after 60 years?

[BN]

I have a Nylon 66 that is pre serial numbers and it still works OK. I have a G-17 from 1989, I think. I haven't looked at it for a while. I better check in the safe and see if it has crumbled away to nothing. ;)

[Lex Luthier]

The plastic used in those grips is likely bakelite. It's a phenolic resin mix that is more brittle than modern plastics, but resists heat really well. It was commonly used on things like radios, kitchen appliances, and the like. Our circa 1942 Sunbeam T-9 toaster has bakelite levers, knobs, and the base is made of it, too. Still shiny and hasn't cracked or shrunk over 3 owners and 74 years.

The Rickenbacker guitar company made pre-war electric Spanish and steel guitars from it that still work great 75-80 years later.

(I bet there's a ton of it around Tam's place what with her housemate's antique electronics collections.)

That reminds me- I ought to ask my brother how his 26-year-old (presumably) Gen 1 Glock 23 is holding up.

[GJM]

Let's just hope that Glock's definition of a lifetime warrantee isn't Gaston's lifetime.

[SLG]

Let's just hope that Glock's definition of a lifetime warrantee isn't Gaston's lifetime.

When I asked our friend about the color/sun issue from previous generations of colored Glocks, he said he had no idea what I was talking about.

[BES]

Passing on a GLOCK is like passing on a screwdriver. It's a memento, but it's never gonna be worth anything.

Lol, I was just using that scenario as an example.

[Gadfly]

I have held on to my two Beretta's. I don't shoot them too much. I mostly shoot my plastic guns. But I have thought that the steel/aluminum Berettas will stand the test of time to be passed on to future grand kids.

I don't expect the grand kids to be shooting my current Glocks in 50 years.

[JonInWA]

The plastic used in those grips is likely bakelite. It's a phenolic resin mix that is more brittle than modern plastics, but resists heat really well. It was commonly used on things like radios, kitchen appliances, and the like. Our circa 1942 Sunbeam T-9 toaster has bakelite levers, knobs, and the base is made of it, too. Still shiny and hasn't cracked or shrunk over 3 owners and 74 years.

The Rickenbacker guitar company made pre-war electric Spanish and steel guitars from it that still work great 75-80 years later.

(I bet there's a ton of it around Tam's place what with her housemate's antique electronics collections.)

That reminds me- I ought to ask my brother how his 26-year-old (presumably) Gen 1 Glock 23 is holding up.

And it's too bad Walther just didn't stick with for their apres WWII production-the grip plastic used on their post-WWII production P38/P1/P4/P5/P88 was junk-very susceptible to de-constructing when exposed to common US shooting solvents, and would subsequently crystallize and crack-as would other Walther plastic components, most notably in my personal experience the plastic filler piece used to anchor the mainspring strut in the P5C-once the mainspring lost that critical anchoring, the gun was non-fireable, which I found less than amusing.

Best, Jon

[exuberant]

I remember looking into this topic some time ago. There was a materials engineer that posted some information about the materials that Glock frames are made of on glocktalk or glockfaq. Gaston supposedly uses his own proprietary blend of Nylon 6,6 combined with 2-3% carbon black which makes an incredibly resistant polymer. Here's the excerpt:


"UV exposure results in degradation over an extended period of time.
2-3% carbon black virtually eliminates UV degradation and Carbon-Black
does not become readily absorbed in Nylons offering highly increased useful life spans.
Loss of mechanical properties with 2% Carbon-Black is less than 0.05% on
an elevated UV exposure test equivalent to approximately 100 years."

I've tried looking for the laboratory report for the lab that did this, but nothing pops up on the google, so take it for what it's worth.

[Handy]

I remember looking into this topic some time ago. There was a materials engineer that posted some information about the materials that Glock frames are made of on glocktalk or glockfaq. Gaston supposedly uses his own proprietary blend of Nylon 6,6 combined with 2-3% carbon black which makes an incredibly resistant polymer. Here's the excerpt:



I've tried looking for the laboratory report for the lab that did this, but nothing pops up on the google, so take it for what it's worth.

Carbon black is very effective. The wrinkle is that UV is only one of several things that will cause breakdown over time.

[TiroFijo]

I've shot HK VP70s that were almost 45 years old, and were just fine. Same with my Rem Nylon 66 in mohawk Brown (no even the magical black) that my Dad bought in 1972.

If you want something to survive the ages, plastic is not it.

But if you want a good handgun to shoot the hell out of it (in number of rounds shot may well outlive most steel frame pistols, and all aluminum framed ones) for a mere 30-40 years, then the glock or a similar good quality polymer frame is a good option.

Personally, I would worry more about politicians than rust or polymer decay.

[QuickStrike]

This is one of the main reasons I have stopped buying any more polymer framed pistols.

Besides already having enough of them for carry and range use that is.

Maybe one more gen4 Glock 19 and that's it, since I gave one to my sis.

[SAWBONES]

My two generation two Glock 19s, originally purchased at Don Streicher's Police Supply NIB in 1989, have shown no chipping or any other appreciable wear, after who knows how many tens of thousands of (all factory, no reloads) 9mm rounds.
Yes they've had the recommended "upgrades", and they use modern Glock magazines now.

While I doubt they'll endure several centuries of use without observable wear (how unlike my confidence in my numerous all-metal 1911s! :cool:), they continue to function reliably and consistently, and will probably continue to do so throughout my lifetime, if experience to date is any indication.
I'm not really concerned about their value as "heirlooms" :), rather that they just work whenever I shoot them now.

All-metal guns have a convincing sense of permanence, so long as you keep 'em from rusting.
None of my several 1911s or my one BHP have shown any deterioration in appearance or function over a period of years.
Does that mean they're "better" (in the sense of endurance) than polymer-framed pistols?
IMNSHO, no, not in any practical sense. If a pistol functions, serves your needs, and doesn't break, what more do you expect?

[SD]

Why would the future want to put their Ray pistols away to shoot some old school plastic ? But if the do my money is on the Glock will be a rocking just fine. Never considered this when purchasing polymer firearms. Nothing gets me more upset then pulling my Winchester 52 out of the back of the safe and finding a new fleck of rust on that beautiful blueing. My glock I see as a tool and would not think twice about a mild imperfection.

[Handy]

There are firearms that are six hundred years old and still in working condition. I am philosophically bothered that the newest "advancement' in pistol technology is the adoption of disposable materials made from non-renewable resources. It seems like a massive step backward.

I doubt there will ever be a civilian raygun or any other sort of quiet, clean, easy lethal weapon. Firearms do to good a job telling on who fired them.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

My LL Bean boots and New Balance sneakers crumbled into dust and they were much younger than my Gen 2 Glock 19 which still seems to be intact.

[Tamara]

On the one hand, my oldest working Glock, made in 1992, is nowhere near as old as my oldest working firearm, a Smith & Wesson Number 2 "Old Army" that dates to about 1861.

On the other hand, the latter is only notionally "working" as .32 Rimfire Long is a beast to find and I'm not sure I want to fire it anyway. :/

[txdpd]

DEET insect repellent overspray has caused a thin gray haze to form on the grip of my Glock. I'm not sure how much it would take to weaken the frame. The DEET is unfreindly to all the plastic stuff on my duty belt, I try to avoid exposure but it happens.

[Jim Watson]

If you are using hydrogen peroxide + vinegar to de-lead your aftermarket lead bullet barrel, do not drip the Dip on your plastic.
Nylon is not resistant to acids and oxidizers.

Keep your plastic out of your highball, alcohol causes a "temporary loss of stiffness."
I think there is a joke in there somewhere.


http://www.hangerlok.com/assets/pdf/nylon66_chem_resist.pdf

[BES]

DEET insect repellent overspray has caused a thin gray haze to form on the grip of my Glock. I'm not sure how much it would take to weaken the frame. The DEET is unfreindly to all the plastic stuff on my duty belt, I try to avoid exposure but it happens.

I don't blame you. That stuff is NO JOKE on plastic. I learned the hard way a few years ago when I was new to the Army and field life. Sprayed myself down with some 90% prior to starting Land Nav, about 5 mins later I glanced down to see my watch, map case, laminated map, and eye pro melting and half disintegrated. :/ Got my ass chewed real good by a DS when I had to ask for a new map and explain to him I just doused all my gear in deet , lol.

[Nephrology]

Metal degrades in the form of rusting, and as far as I know we have no reason to believe that these guns will appreciably degrade over time....

I happen to like my glocks just fine, and have no worries about them being in good condition when we declare WWIV on giant mutant cockroaches.

[txdpd]

I don't blame you. That stuff is NO JOKE on plastic. I learned the hard way a few years ago when I was new to the Army and field life. Sprayed myself down with some 90% prior to starting Land Nav, about 5 mins later I glanced down to see my watch, map case, laminated map, and eye pro melting and half disintegrated. :/ Got my ass chewed real good by a DS when I had to ask for a new map and explain to him I just doused all my gear in deet , lol.

Between taking my chances with West Nile and having to replace about $30-50 worth of equipment a year and maybe a Glock one of these days, I'll keep ponying up the money. My first real lesson with DEET and police equipment was getting DEET on some extended MecGar Sig mags and having the base plates let loose and the springs firing off into parts unknown.

[Tamara]

What's amazing is how "Glock" is still the shibboleth in certain circles for "polymer-framed firearm".

Nobody ever starts a thread asking if Taurus/Ruger/Springfield/FNH/Canik/CZ/S&W/Kahr/whatever guns will be any good in a hundred years.

[HCM]

What's amazing is how "Glock" is still the shibboleth in certain circles for "polymer-framed firearm".

Nobody ever starts a thread asking if Taurus/Ruger/Springfield/FNH/Canik/CZ/S&W/Kahr/whatever guns will be any good in a hundred years.

That's because everybody knows HKs Will still be good in 100 years and no one will care about the rest of that stuff. They will be the Melwyn and Hubert of the 22nd century.

[JHC]

What's amazing is how "Glock" is still the shibboleth in certain circles for "polymer-framed firearm".

Nobody ever starts a thread asking if Taurus/Ruger/Springfield/FNH/Canik/CZ/S&W/Kahr/whatever guns will be any good in a hundred years.

Nice. And yet, if you wanna be the champ; you gotta beat the champ.

[farscott]

The Glock frame material, a glass-filed polyamide (the Glock frame is believed to be part of the PA66 family), is likely to last much longer than any one user's lifespan, unless exposed to something in which it is soluble, burned, or otherwise abused. Same with steel-frames; keep them away from oxidizers and corrosives. Polyamides are used in lots of applications, from chemical plants to vehicles to electrical circuit boards. Keeping the frame cool is probably the best thing for enhanced life spans as heat kills polymers.

That being said: DuPont has test data that shows that if 33% glass-filled PA66 is exposed to Mobil 1 5W30 for 3000 hours at 150 degrees Celsius and then cooled to room temperature that the elongation is only 1.4% with a 17.5 kpsi tensile stress. So feel free to lube your Glock with Mobil 1 as the frame material will be just fine.

[Chuck Haggard]

What's amazing is how "Glock" is still the shibboleth in certain circles for "polymer-framed firearm".

Nobody ever starts a thread asking if Taurus/Ruger/Springfield/FNH/Canik/CZ/S&W/Kahr/whatever guns will be any good in a hundred years.

Some of those ain't any good brand new.............

[EVP]

Silly but interesting topic.

I would think polymer guns(Glock and HK) would last longer then metal guns when you start introducing high round counts over a long period of time.

Think a USP 45 firing 250,000 rounds over 50 years.

If function does not matter and they will be stored in a safe or something then I think both could last for a very long time.

[BillSWPA]

For what it is worth, years ago I was a member of a shooting range that offered rental guns. I was told that one rental Glock that had several tens of thousands of rounds through it developed a cracked slide, but the frame was fine.

[JonInWA]

I similarly recall that in a book by Clay Blair, (a gunwriter who pretty spectacularly self-destructed in the 1990s) similarly cited Ruger P85s and Glocks as surviving well as high round-count range rental guns. The book was extolling the virtues of the Ruger P90, and his motives and integrity as a writer/reporter was subsequently severely compromised, but it was nonetheless an interesting observation. If Tam is following this thread, she can probably comment based on her experiences with rental gun longevity.

Best, Jon

[Handy]

I don't think there is much doubt that polymer guns last a long time. It's like an elastomer buffer and frame all in one. The only thing that could be an issue is figuring out when an old polymer gun is "done", so people don't get hurt shooting something no longer structurally sound.

In aviation, the tests for stressed out metal were much, much simpler than composites. And they failed differently, too.



BTW, when the FBI says that .40 is wearing out their Glocks too quickly, what is it that's wearing out?

[Nephrology]

I don't think there is much doubt that polymer guns last a long time. It's like an elastomer buffer and frame all in one. The only thing that could be an issue is figuring out when an old polymer gun is "done", so people don't get hurt shooting something no longer structurally sound.

In aviation, the tests for stressed out metal were much, much simpler than composites. And they failed differently, too.



BTW, when the FBI says that .40 is wearing out their Glocks too quickly, what is it that's wearing out?

IIRC (or if it's typical of most hi round count .40 cal glock problems) it would be frame rails + locking blocks + both of the metal frame pins. Maybe slide stops as well. Slide cracking definitely not unheard of either. Recoil springs for sure but that's a given. am I missing anything?

edit: Mag springs also have much shorter lifespan than equivalent guns in 9mm. This is because they were redesigned to feed as fast as possible to compensate for slide velocity, which is more or less the source of Glock .40 cal/WML induced malfunctions. They released a new 15rd mag fairly recently I believe- I know I bought a 2014 Gen4 G35 and sent the mags in, received 3 newer mags on return.

[RevolverRob]

Metal degrades in the form of rusting, and as far as I know we have no reason to believe that these guns will appreciably degrade over time....

I happen to like my glocks just fine, and have no worries about them being in good condition when we declare WWIV on giant mutant cockroaches.

Technically - steel is just refined rust (steel is simply iron-ore alloyed with other elements to resist return to its natural state). That said, either gun, cleaned of oil, and stored in an airtight container with sealed ammunition should be perfectly functional in a 1000 years. The question becomes, what about guns that aren't stored like that? Depends on the environment, but for instance, I'd rather have a gun made of steel and wood that was left sitting in the desert for a hundred years over a polymer one. Because chances are, once you unfreeze the mechanism, you can get the rusted desert piece back functioning, but the polymer gun will have degraded beyond usable, without a frame.

And don't even get me started on aluminum...You know, aluminum has been a major component of guns since WWII, and when you go check out some of the oldest aluminum-framed guns they are not all fairing well, depending on the model and how much they have been shot. Admittedly, we know that aluminum does not have the longevity of steel or polymers. But yea...if you actually shoot your aluminum framed guns, don't expect those to last long, either.


What's amazing is how "Glock" is still the shibboleth in certain circles for "polymer-framed firearm".

Nobody ever starts a thread asking if Taurus/Ruger/Springfield/FNH/Canik/CZ/S&W/Kahr/whatever guns will be any good in a hundred years.

I literally do not care what happens to the various Kahrs or even Rugers I have in my collection. They are disposable guns like a Glock is to me. But to some folks Glocks are things they want to last a really long time. I get it. To me a Glock is like a Toyota Corolla. Nice and reliable, but when it gets boring, in the higher mileage camp, or wrecked, you trade it in on a new one.


That's because everybody knows HKs Will still be good in 100 years and no one will care about the rest of that stuff. They will be the Melwyn and Hubert of the 22nd century.

Merwin and Hubert's are cool. But I think about the Mauser 1896. That's a gun that shows you what careful and deliberate engineering and production can do. You're talking about a design now 120-years old, that was manufactured by Mauser for 41 years, by Astra for about 40 years, and in China for probably another 30-years after Mauser stopped making them. And you can still find those guns out and about in the world. This is also a gun that fired a high velocity, "high pressure" (~35,000 cup) cartridge (7.63 Mauser) and has held up over the decades (century+?) of use. Albeit, most of them today have long since been retired to collector and occasional shooting status. - I remain astounded by the C96 design. Every once in awhile, when I want to torture myself, I'll go look for transferable M712 Schnellfuerers in the NFA Registry. What amazes me is those guns are all in excess of 70 years old and most of them are 90-100 years old and yet nearly all of them are in outstanding condition, never been restored, and are fully functional. To be entirely honest, I don't expect that to be true of a Glock 18 in 100 years.

[Sero Sed Serio]

Technically - steel is just refined rust (steel is simply iron-ore alloyed with other elements to resist return to its natural state). That said, either gun, cleaned of oil, and stored in an airtight container with sealed ammunition should be perfectly functional in a 1000 years. The question becomes, what about guns that aren't stored like that? Depends on the environment, but for instance, I'd rather have a gun made of steel and wood that was left sitting in the desert for a hundred years over a polymer one. Because chances are, once you unfreeze the mechanism, you can get the rusted desert piece back functioning, but the polymer gun will have degraded beyond usable, without a frame.

Interestingly enough, I knew an Arizona Department of Public Safety Sergeant who was part of a narcotics task force and was ambushed while doing surveillance to try and rescue a slightly less bad man who had been kidnapped by a really bad man. Fortunately the bad man forgot to chamber a round and got two clicks instead of two bangs when he put his gun to this Sergeant's head, and the Sgt. was able to unass his vehicle and get into the fight with his backup gun, and stayed alive. The bad guy made his getaway in the Sgt's UC truck, which had the Sgt's primary weapon, a SIG 229. The bad guy ended up dumping the SIG in the desert outside of Tucson. IRRC it remained out there for about 5 months, including monsoon season where it rained pretty much every day, until a hiker found it and turned it in. The Sgt. said he wanted HIS gun back, so the armory was able to get it cleaned up and put back into service. It wasn't quite a hundred years, but I was pretty damn impressed that a pistol could come back from that kind of exposure.

[GJM]

I plan on wearing my Glocks out from shooting them well before I need to worry about the polymer aging.

[Handy]

Someday they may even find a way to stop steel from rusting all the time.


(Science geek note: Most of the iron in the universe is not oxidized. Just most of it in the Midwest.)

[TiroFijo]

But I think about the Mauser 1896. That's a gun that shows you what careful and deliberate engineering and production can do. You're talking about a design now 120-years old, that was manufactured by Mauser for 41 years, by Astra for about 40 years, and in China for probably another 30-years after Mauser stopped making them. And you can still find those guns out and about in the world. This is also a gun that fired a high velocity, "high pressure" (~35,000 cup) cartridge (7.63 Mauser) and has held up over the decades (century+?) of use. Albeit, most of them today have long since been retired to collector and occasional shooting status. - I remain astounded by the C96 design. Every once in awhile, when I want to torture myself, I'll go look for transferable M712 Schnellfuerers in the NFA Registry. What amazes me is those guns are all in excess of 70 years old and most of them are 90-100 years old and yet nearly all of them are in outstanding condition, never been restored, and are fully functional. To be entirely honest, I don't expect that to be true of a Glock 18 in 100 years.

The C96 is a mechanical wonder, the epitome of steampunk, but it has an integral barrel/barrel extensión. This is a serious design flaw, IMO. Most of these beautiful guns I've seen around here had their barrels severly worn out due to improper cleaning and corrosive ammo. It is a shame when you see a gun of this type in great condition, with the (numbered) internals in great condition but with a severly worn bore, since you cannot find people to reline it.
Good luck, I hope you'll find your M712 :)

[Tamara]

edit: Mag springs also have much shorter lifespan than equivalent guns in 9mm. This is because they were redesigned to feed as fast as possible to compensate for slide velocity, which is more or less the source of Glock .40 cal/WML induced malfunctions. They released a new 15rd mag fairly recently I believe- I know I bought a 2014 Gen4 G35 and sent the mags in, received 3 newer mags on return.

Are you referring to these (https://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=452&CAT=194)?

[jkb4c]

And don't even get me started on aluminum...You know, aluminum has been a major component of guns since WWII, and when you go check out some of the oldest aluminum-framed guns they are not all fairing well, depending on the model and how much they have been shot. Admittedly, we know that aluminum does not have the longevity of steel or polymers. But yea...if you actually shoot your aluminum framed guns, don't expect those to last long, either.



There are reports of both Beretta and Sig frames with 100k+ on them, so with modern designs/alloys, seems like aluminum frames are not as much of an issue when it comes to high mileage (Although of course, you are right that for pure wear resistance, aluminum generally loses). As for aging, I would think aluminum would fare just as well as steel/polymer in an airtight container; and possibly better than steel if neglected and left without corrosion protection.

[BillSWPA]

Aluminum can be alloyed to have any of the properties of steel that might be essential to a given application. The limitation is that you cannot get all of the properties of steel in the same alloy, so you need to choose which ones you want.

[Nephrology]

Are you referring to these (https://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=452&CAT=194)?

I actually got entirely new mag bodies - not just new mags. The new ones had slightly staggered witness holes, whereas the ones they replaced were more evenly aligned (like the 9mm mags). I'll see if I can take a photo when I get home from lab.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

What's the take on the Aluminum / Scandium alloy that SW has used on several guns? I have a 1911 in that mixture.

[L-2]

Glock is fairly open to replacing mags for good reason, unless higher cap mags in a state which disallows such mags. I believe Glock isn't going to spend much time verifying a customer's assertion a mag/mags aren't working to satisfaction, and will merely send new ones out if you've taken the time & expense of sending your old ones in.

Glock even has a downloadable form to fill out without prior contact w/Glock:
https://us.glock.com/documents/GLOCK%20Warranty.pdf

[Handy]

What's the take on the Aluminum / Scandium alloy that SW has used on several guns? I have a 1911 in that mixture.

Scandium/aluminum alloys only contain tiny amounts of scandium. It is a grain refiner, kind of like vanadium for steel. From what I've read about its application to weld zones and age hardening, I don't know if it actually does anything for a machined aluminum firearm frame. Any increase in surface hardness is going to be less than what anodizing provides. S&W uses it on guns originally designed to be steel, so they probably could use all the help they can get, but I don't know if a SIG or Beretta would last significantly longer than they already do.

Titanium would be the "ultimate" frame material, and is supposedly cheaper than Scand alloys. It is more expensive to machine, though. If I ever found 1911s exciting again, I'd build a Caspian Ti frame version.

[farscott]

Not sure I agree on titanium as the "ultimate" frame material as it needs a coating to stop the slide rails from galling the frame rails. It is also tough on tools, and my 1911 smith said, "Never again" after building a Ti-framed Caspian.

[Handy]

Not sure I agree on titanium as the "ultimate" frame material as it needs a coating to stop the slide rails from galling the frame rails. It is also tough on tools, and my 1911 smith said, "Never again" after building a Ti-framed Caspian.

I had read that Caspian was surprised to find that even those Ti frames that hadn't received their tungsten carbide treatment weren't having galling problems. I've seen galling on threaded titanium parts tightly torqued to steel or aluminum, but I don't know if lubed slide rails are really that much of an issue. They used to say that galling was a problem for stainless guns, too.

And I mainly meant "ultimate" in the sense that the material is both light, strong and abrasion resistant. It is more expensive and harder to deal with than steel, but you get most of the durability advantages of steel and almost the weight advantage of aluminum. Kind of the polar opposite of cheap, effective polymer.

[M2CattleCo]

Stainless still does gall, it's a lot more common than it should be. The frame and slide have be alloyed differently to resist galling. Carbon is the best way to do it, which is why a stainless pistol is so easy to rust.

[Tamara]

I actually got entirely new mag bodies - not just new mags. The new ones had slightly staggered witness holes, whereas the ones they replaced were more evenly aligned (like the 9mm mags). I'll see if I can take a photo when I get home from lab.

Are they marked 1633-03 (http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/gen-4-magazines-marked-1633-03.1509068/#post-20753061)? If so, those are the ones that came with my Gen4 35.

[Nephrology]

Are they marked 1633-03 (http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/gen-4-magazines-marked-1633-03.1509068/#post-20753061)? If so, those are the ones that came with my Gen4 35.

Yep, those are the newer ones. They did not come with my Gen 4 G35 which was a 2014 manufacture date I believe.

edit - nevermind, my gun should be early 2012 manufacture (RZMxxx serial #)