View Full Version : Glock 31 - Dumb or Not Dumb
LockedBreech
05-31-2016, 11:06 AM
Okay, it's well known that I'm a gun-of-the-month guy, I even changed my flair to reflect as such. I own that shame, I know that's dumb, and I try to minimize the dumb by sticking with only 1 carry gun (a Walther PPS the last 2 years) and one dedicated home defense pistol (Beretta 92 since 2013). But...for reasons that are hard to explain, like a crow hoarding foil wrappers, I like owning lots of different stuff and I don't have kids or a wife so I like blowing the paycheck on guns. It is what it is.
Last month was the Colt O1091 (enjoying it a lot) and the most recent lark of interest is the Browning Hi-Power, but permit this Glock detour.
I got to thinking about how I don't own a fullsize Glock, and I really enjoy my G19G4 and moderately enjoy my G23G3 (I know, shut up). Obvious choice here is a G17G4, but there is a chance that in a year or so I'll need to move to Colorado for work and I'd have to ditch that for the 15-round limit. So, looking at my other fullsize Glock options: 21 (a bit fat for me), 22, and 31.
G22 is just so...played out. I'm being a hipster, but this is the ubiquitous Glock fo'tay. I already have a number of solid .40 S&W pistols (PX4 and M&P full-size models). So now I'm looking at the G31. Also 15-round capacity, and with a fun, intriguing new caliber to stock. I'm more of a collector than a high-volume shooter so ammo cost isn't a huge concern.
Realizing that the .357 SIG doesn't do a whole lot you can't do with 9mm +p or .40, is the G31 a generally sound, reliable, mechanically tough pistol, based on those agencies and individuals who have run them? Does it run as well as its Glock brethren? Should I just get a G17G4 and get rid of it later if that comes up?
The G31: Dumb or Not Dumb?
The 357 Sig is an awesome round that I find to absolutely do things the others don't. Whether that matters or not is a different story...
Glock 357's have always been a bit suspect to me, as they haven't been widely used, and I've heard lots of negatives from those few serious guys who have used them. Also, industry scuttle on how they came to be, but that's neither here nor there.
If you really want 357, I'd get a 226.
if you really want glock, I'd get a G17, or to be really glockish, maybe the 45gap.
If you really aren't going to shoot it much, and just want to try it, then who cares, go for it.
BTW, I have to say that your post up top was an excellent one. It laid out your context for this purchase very well. We all like guns here, and if you are comfortable with simply wanting new stuff to play with, and not dedicate to a gun, no one should argue with you about that. As I've said before, I have lots of guns that I just like. nothing wrong with that.
The 357 Sig is an awesome round that I find to absolutely do things the others don't.
Is it your sense that it seems to be an inherently accurate round? I don't like its price or the muzzle rise I get when shooting it, but it seems to me to be an extremely accurate round--much more so than the .40, and more so than the 9 or .45.
psalms144.1
05-31-2016, 11:34 AM
I really like the .357 Sig, and, if I wanted a .357 Sig launcher, I'd get a Sig - the P226 would be my first choice, or the P229 if you wanted something "compacter."
When I was working out of McDill AFB for about four years, one of the local departments had G31s. I won't go into details, but I found not a single officer who shot more than just the qualification liked those pistols. YMMV, and you like your G23, so you're obviously a glutton for punishment, so... Seriously, if you want it because you want it, and you have the scratch, get it, shoot it, let us know how it works for you.
Or, get the Gen4 G17 that you know you want, and spend the extra money on a quality grip chop so you can run it off CO-legal G19 magazines.
warpedcamshaft
05-31-2016, 11:36 AM
Paul Howe mentioned sand sensitivity in his Glock 32 magazines.
http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/published/info-letters/11/CSATUpdate_Nov11.pdf
He used G19's and G32's in the last class I took from him, and mentioned that the G32's were sensitive to sand.
psalms144.1
05-31-2016, 11:43 AM
Is it your sense that it seems to be an inherently accurate round? I don't like its price or the muzzle rise I get when shooting it, but it seems to me to be an extremely accurate round--much more so than the .40, and more so than the 9 or .45.I hate to compare "inherent accuracy" between rounds - as I feel that true accuracy is almost always limited by the shooter or (much less frequently) the platform. Having said that, yes, I found both my P229 and my Steyr M-series to be VERY accurate in .357. Like plink 8" steel at 100 yards all day with boring consistency accurate.
Again, I own neither of those pistols anymore, for reasons you pointed out, but they could flat shoot.
I've got just 700 rounds on my G31 but it has run fine. I think it's the most mechanically accurate Glock I own (slide to frame is rock solid). You could always get a .40 conversion barrel for one.
I like the round. But it's kind of a novelty. It was my primary used in my short deer hunt last year but I only saw does in that buck only county.
JonInWA
05-31-2016, 11:58 AM
If you're going to get a 31, the Gen4 route is the one I'd absolutely suggest. I believe that some of the LEOs that had Gen 3 G31s had some longevity issues-New Mexico State Police comes to mind; I believe that they subsequently switched to Smith & Wesson M&Ps in .357, but I'm not sure how that played out. North Carolina Highway Patrol had also had an ongoing affection for the round, but has gone through several platforms in the process-disastrously with the Beretta 8357 at first (which of course I found out in the process of my ownership experiences with my personal 8357...). I believe that they then went to the M&P in .357 SIG, then to the SIG P229 DAK in .357 SIG, and finally/currently with the P226 in .357 SIG. I believe FAM have been and are currently issued P229s in .357 SIG.
It's my opinion that the Gen4 RSA is far better suited for the higher-pressure cartridges (such as .40, 357 SIG, and 10mm) then their predecessors. That said, if you tend to keep your acquisitions, Id recommend the G31, and perhaps a G22 .40 barrel for some additional flexibility-conversely, if you see yourself trading out of it after a period of time, I'd suggest getting a Gen4 G22, and then get a Gen4 G31 barrel for it. While most reports state that you can interchangeably use either platform and merely switch barrels, you may need to swap out extractors, magazines and sights to achieve the best caliber match-up.
Or, just get a G34 and use Winchester Ranger 127gr +P+ and call it good...but that suggestion'll probably fall on deaf ears...
At the end of the day, I think that you'd find a Gen4 G31 a good acquisition, at least for light to medium heavy roundcounts. For heavy roundcounts, I haven't heard much, so the jury's still out a bit. I think you'd be fine at least up to 20K rounds, but that's my opinion.
Best, Jon
Is it your sense that it seems to be an inherently accurate round? I don't like its price or the muzzle rise I get when shooting it, but it seems to me to be an extremely accurate round--much more so than the .40, and more so than the 9 or .45.
I forget the testing done on it now, but .40 is the least accurate duty round. 9 is better and 45 is great. 357 was somewhere between 9 and 45, IIRC. AMU does this stuff from time to time with test barrels and fixtures.
Aside from the accuracy, 357 is much flatter than the other cartridges. I really enjoy holding on a small target at 100, 200 or 300 yards and getting hits. Obviously it does drop, and quite a bit out at 2 and 300, but not nearly as badly as the others. At 100, it is something like 4" down, iirc.
I also like the flashbang effect of pulling the trigger. I think that does matter in some cases. I don't find the recoil to be much more than a 9mm really (I also like the G23 so go figure), so for me, it's a pretty nice combination of features.
SIG really does make the best 357's though.
LockedBreech
05-31-2016, 12:30 PM
Interesting input so far. Two things:
1.) The new G31 would absolutely be a Gen 4.
2.) I was under the impression that .40 and .357 Sig beat the hell out of the P226. If I decided to go the Sig route, is there a particular manufacture date where they started building them tough enough or would I be safe getting a cheapo used one?
DocGKR
05-31-2016, 12:32 PM
".40 is the least accurate duty round. 9 is better and 45 is great. 357 was somewhere between 9 and 45"
When fired from test barrels, that sounds about right...
I'd definitely stay away from Glocks in 357 Sig.
Personally, I find 357 Sig offers me nothing that is not already available in more common calibers, but if I was given 100,000 rounds of free 357 Sig ammo, I'd carry it without another thought. Generally 357 Sig is easier to shoot than .40, but not as nice a 9 mm. The last 357 Sig agency around here is transitioning to 9 mm...
LockedBreech
05-31-2016, 12:35 PM
I'd definitely stay away from Glocks in 357 Sig.
Well, damn.
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Chuck Haggard
05-31-2016, 12:53 PM
Oddly enough, I know more than a few guys down in OK using the .357, it's popular with LE down that way, and many of them are carrying Glocks. Many are also shooters, and while I have heard of issues with the platform none of them have had any trouble.
I have a gen 4 G31 that I traded into from a bud that was broke and needed a G17 due to changing jobs. I ended up with a KKM .40 barrel for it from GJM, and I'm now torn between also buying a 9mm barrel for it or selling the whole package.
I'm tempted to throw Dawsons on it, and a Raven magwell, and start shooting .40 in USPSA from AIWB, use it as a Limited gun, with a side of .357s for shooting at coyotes and such, and 9mm for volume shooting.
ST911
05-31-2016, 12:58 PM
I've had 357 OEM conversion barrels for the G22/23/27, and ran a G33 at length for a time. Depending on the load, the 357 auto has a certain recoil and control attribute that is brisk but not unpleasant. It's just...different. But for the cost and availability of the ammo, I sometimes preferred the G33 to the 27. There is a troop in my circles that is a stalwart fan of his gen4 G31, runs it respectably, and makes the same observations.
John Farnam wrote extensively about his experience with the G32. I believe he wore a couple of them out, and demonstrated service life was 30-35k rounds. (I don't recall if it was in his quips or in another pub.
Bullet setback is a long time and lingering problem for some manufacturers, more so than other service calibers.
Tamara
05-31-2016, 01:52 PM
I'm currently running 2,000 rounds through a Gen 3 32. My first observation was that the gun was likely drastically undersprung from the factory.
I like the .357SIG for irrational gun hipster reasons, but if I were going to seriously buy this gun again, it would have been a Gen4 from the jump...
JonInWA
05-31-2016, 02:12 PM
When fired from test barrels, that sounds about right...
I'd definitely stay away from Glocks in 357 Sig.
Personally, I find 357 Sig offers me nothing that is not already available in more common calibers, but if I was given 100,000 rounds of free 357 Sig ammo, I'd carry it without another thought. Generally 357 Sig is easier to shoot than .40, but not as nice a 9 mm. The last 357 Sig agency around here is transitioning to 9 mm...
Doc, is your response recommending regarding staying away from Glocks in .357 SIG based on Gen4 findings, or previous Gen 3 problems/input? I know there were longevity issues with the Gen 3s, but I haven't heard much about the Gen4s to date, and would be very interested in your feedback.
Best, Jon
Interesting input so far. Two things:
2.) I was under the impression that .40 and .357 Sig beat the hell out of the P226. If I decided to go the Sig route, is there a particular manufacture date where they started building them tough enough or would I be safe getting a cheapo used one?
I have never heard of a Sig not handling .40 or 357. I may be out of date on that info, so I'm curious to hear if anyone has any more recent, relevant experience. Or , maybe the 229's are just much better than the 226 with the heavier calibers.
My G31Gen3 is just OK. I bought it back in 2012 when I couldn't find any 9mm/.40/.45ACP to buy. I was just about to sell it when the left rear frame rail broke off at ~10,800 rounds. Glock was very quick at exchanging the frame although I paid the $80 shipping back to Georgia. Now I've probably got one of the few Glocks with a "Made In USA" on the frame in California. I'll keep it for now.
At a class I attended, the caliber did seem to penetrate an old Honda Accord slightly better than the other handgun calibers.
RevolverRob
05-31-2016, 02:40 PM
I have nothing to contribute to the G31 discussion. But I do not think it is dumb.
Have you put hands on the G21SF? It seems so silly but the minute dimensional changes make all the difference in the world on how the gun feels and handles. For instance, the G21 Gen3 is too fat for me, when I grip it, it just causes a nasty flareup of my carpal-tunnel by contrast, the G21SF Gen3 doesn't do that. I mean seriously...only difference is the "slim frame".
In .357 Sig land have you considered the Sig 250/320 series of guns? I've thought so hard and nearly convinced myself about six times to buy a P250 Full size in .357 Sig, because they can literally be had for less than four Benjamins.
Tamara
05-31-2016, 02:47 PM
I know that the only Glock that physically, no-shit broke while I was actually present was our rental Gen3 .357SIG gun at CCA... I wanna say it was a 31, but it might have been a 32...which suddenly started shooting to the left. Sure enough, the slide was cracked through from the bottom front corner of the ejection port clear down to the slide rail. Probably a victim of not staying on top of the RSA replacement schedule, to be honest.
LockedBreech
05-31-2016, 02:58 PM
I have nothing to contribute to the G31 discussion. But I do not think it is dumb.
Have you put hands on the G21SF? It seems so silly but the minute dimensional changes make all the difference in the world on how the gun feels and handles. For instance, the G21 Gen3 is too fat for me, when I grip it, it just causes a nasty flareup of my carpal-tunnel by contrast, the G21SF Gen3 doesn't do that. I mean seriously...only difference is the "slim frame".
In .357 Sig land have you considered the Sig 250/320 series of guns? I've thought so hard and nearly convinced myself about six times to buy a P250 Full size in .357 Sig, because they can literally be had for less than four Benjamins.
I really want to hold the Gen 4 G21, I've heard it does good things regarding that chubbiness. I'll try to stay open to that.
The P250 is very, very tempting to me but I'm bothered that the rear sight can't be swapped.
The P320 is still too much of a new kid on the block for me to want to jump on board yet. I'm pretty conservative (except for my early-adopter PX4) and I like designs that have been proven and run their paces.
I have never heard of a Sig not handling .40 or 357. I may be out of date on that info, so I'm curious to hear if anyone has any more recent, relevant experience. Or , maybe the 229's are just much better than the 226 with the heavier calibers.
If I recall it popped up once or twice on conversations about guns designed for 9mm being "up-calibered" without appropriate engineering to make them durable enough (i.e., the Beretta 96 series).
I know that the only Glock that physically, no-shit broke while I was actually present was our rental Gen3 .357SIG gun at CCA... I wanna say it was a 31, but it might have been a 32...which suddenly started shooting to the left. Sure enough, the slide was cracked through from the bottom front corner of the ejection port clear down to the slide rail. Probably a victim of not staying on top of the RSA replacement schedule, to be honest.
:eek: Yep yep *Rain Man voice* definitely Gen 4, def...definitely Gen 4
When 40 hit the scene SIG designed the P229 for the 40 from the ground up, including a one piece stainless steel slide replacing the old two-part slide of the original 226 and 228. SIG also redesigned the slide of the P226 with a one piece stainless lied as well.
The Sig and HK 40s and 357's are the most durable and reliable as long as you do the proper preventive maintenance, particularly recoil spring changes.
Every failure or parts breakage I've ever seen in a 40 caliber SIG or HK can be traced back to failure to change recoil springs. Especially when using hotter ammunition like the 155 grain and 135 grain loadings.
The 357 Sig is an awesome round that I find to absolutely do things the others don't. Whether that matters or not is a different story...
Glock 357's have always been a bit suspect to me, as they haven't been widely used, and I've heard lots of negatives from those few serious guys who have used them. Also, industry scuttle on how they came to be, but that's neither here nor there.
If you really want 357, I'd get a 226.
if you really want glock, I'd get a G17, or to be really glockish, maybe the 45gap.
If you really aren't going to shoot it much, and just want to try it, then who cares, go for it.
I also really enjoyed shooting the 31 out west. Got it for coyotes but mainly used it on long range steel.
SLG you are slacking, wasn't the .357 Sig developed in the 229?
JonInWA
05-31-2016, 03:27 PM
I've had multiple SIG-Sauer P229s (three come to mind), and held onto precisely none of them over time. Never any mechanical/operational issues; I just migrated out of their niche in my scheme of things-and they did too. While well built, at the end of my particular usage of them I found them to be just a bit too big, chunky and heavy-nothing terribly drastic, but just enough for them to be edged out of the line-up. My last one was a very nice non-railed DAK, with both .40 and .357 SIG barrels; I found the DAK to be an all-or-nothing sort of proposition to run the gun advantageously-and for me it ended up being nothing. Someone got a good gun, but I've had no visceral regrets about its loss-despite it being of the "good" SIG vintage years of production.
For a heavy-duty, hard use, high roundcount .347 SIG, based on my use and anecdotal reports of others', I concur with SIG or HK as probably being the pre-eminent choices. But I think the Gen4 G31 will be ok also, unless there's specific data points available indicating the contrary.
While I'm not holding my breath, it might be interesting to see if HK provides .357 SIG barreling for the VP40 and P30 platforms.
Best, Jon
Handy
05-31-2016, 03:40 PM
When 40 hit the scene SIG designed the P229 for the 40 from the ground up, including a one piece stainless steel slide replacing the old two-part slide of the original 226 and 228. SIG also redesigned the slide of the P226 with a one piece stainless lied as well.
The Sig and HK 40s and 357's are the most durable and reliable as long as you do the proper preventive maintenance, particularly recoil spring changes.
Every failure or parts breakage I've ever seen in a 40 caliber SIG or HK can be traced back to failure to change recoil springs. Especially when using hotter ammunition like the 155 grain and 135 grain loadings.
Sig added 80 grams to the slide to go from P228 to P229. Glock initially added nothing, but later put 15 grams extra on the G22, but didn't add anything to the G23. The G31 and G32 got 30 and 10 grams respectively over the 9mms. All of these guns use the same weight recoil springs for a given frame size (which makes sense), so not having more massive slides for .40 guns doesn't seem like a good idea. Of course, the Gen 3 problems with attachments makes it appear that .40 and .357 Glocks moderate slide velocities through friction from the frame flexing and binding the slide a bit.
After 22 years of .40, Glock may be the last company shoehorning .40 (and .357) into a largely unmodified 9mm pistol. Well, the Beretta 96A1 would be the other, I guess.
When 40 hit the scene SIG designed the P229 for the 40 from the ground up, including a one piece stainless steel slide replacing the old two-part slide of the original 226 and 228. SIG also redesigned the slide of the P226 with a one piece stainless lied as well.
The Sig and HK 40s and 357's are the most durable and reliable as long as you do the proper preventive maintenance, particularly recoil spring changes.
Every failure or parts breakage I've ever seen in a 40 caliber SIG or HK can be traced back to failure to change recoil springs. Especially when using hotter ammunition like the 155 grain and 135 grain loadings.
That is my understanding as well.
I also really enjoyed shooting the 31 out west. Got it for coyotes but mainly used it on long range steel.
SLG you are slacking, wasn't the .357 Sig developed in the 229?
Given that the 229 birthed western civ as we know it, I'm sure that's true.
I've been thinking about asking Tom to rename this forum to "P229-Pistolforum.com Then the correct answer to these types of threads wouldn't take so damn long to get to.
Given that the 229 birthed western civ as we know it, I'm sure that's true.
I've been thinking about asking Tom to rename this forum to "P229-Pistolforum.com Then the correct answer to these types of threads wouldn't take so damn long to get to.
I bet a PF dollar he has already reserved that name.
Regarding Post 26, with Gen4 Glocks, the recoil spring assembly (RSA) is now different between the G17gen4 and the G22/31gen4; and also the G19gen4 vs. the G23/32gen4 guns. The subcompact versions in those calibers stayed the same, however.
Nephrology
05-31-2016, 04:54 PM
Even as a gun of the month club kinda guy, I am not sure I would see the point behind a Glock chambered in .357 SIG.
From my perspective, the Glock is a prett utilitarian gun, and the price of the ammo and fact that it doesn't do anything new for you beyond the caliber, suggests you could buy into something you could appreciate a little more. but that's just my 0.02 USD. If I wanted to shoot .357, I would (and have) buy a .357 revolver instead. If you look for an old GP100 you can get one for not much more than a used .357 cal Glock and be infinitely more pleasurable to shoot/own/cherish.
Even as a gun of the month club kinda guy, I am not sure I would see the point behind a Glock chambered in .357 SIG.
From my perspective, the Glock is a prett utilitarian gun, and the price of the ammo and fact that it doesn't do anything new for you beyond the caliber, suggests you could buy into something you could appreciate a little more. but that's just my 0.02 USD. If I wanted to shoot .357, I would (and have) buy a .357 revolver instead. If you look for an old GP100 you can get one for not much more than a used .357 cal Glock and be infinitely more pleasurable to shoot/own/cherish.
In the thick woods I don't want the buck to hear me cocking the wheelie.
Nephrology
05-31-2016, 05:01 PM
In the thick woods I don't want the buck to hear me cocking the wheelie.
I never use the SA trigger on my S&Ws to begin with. I would happily convert them to DAO but a Highway Patrolman needs a spur hammer, dammit.
I never use the SA trigger on my S&Ws to begin with. I would happily convert them to DAO but a Highway Patrolman needs a spur hammer, dammit.
Oh I need to for pinpoint stuff. I've one j frame. A classic 36. Yeah and I'll use that hammer!
LockedBreech
05-31-2016, 05:22 PM
Even as a gun of the month club kinda guy, I am not sure I would see the point behind a Glock chambered in .357 SIG.
From my perspective, the Glock is a prett utilitarian gun, and the price of the ammo and fact that it doesn't do anything new for you beyond the caliber, suggests you could buy into something you could appreciate a little more. but that's just my 0.02 USD. If I wanted to shoot .357, I would (and have) buy a .357 revolver instead. If you look for an old GP100 you can get one for not much more than a used .357 cal Glock and be infinitely more pleasurable to shoot/own/cherish.
My .357 Magnum bases are covered with my 4" Colt Python :cool:
Though swag nonsense aside I could use a .357 Magnum I wouldn't have a heart attack if I dropped.
Tamara
05-31-2016, 05:36 PM
Even as a gun of the month club kinda guy, I am not sure I would see the point behind a Glock chambered in .357 SIG.
Hey, you, get offa my cloud.
If I wanted to shoot .357, I would (and have) buy a .357 revolver instead.
Or you could...
8237
Kidding. Sorta. But if it's just for giggles, this thing's a lot of giggles so far... o.O
Hauptmann
05-31-2016, 05:42 PM
I like the power of the .357sig, but I despise reloading it.......thus, it has no place in my armory.
Hambo
05-31-2016, 05:48 PM
I admit a sick fascination with .357SIG (and bottleneck pistol cartridges in general), but if I wanted a non-9/40/45 Glock I'd just step up to a G20 and drive on.
Handy
05-31-2016, 05:53 PM
I admit a sick fascination with .357SIG (and bottleneck pistol cartridges in general), but if I wanted a non-9/40/45 Glock I'd just step up to a G20 and drive on.
Maybe you can get a .30 Luger barrel?
Tamara
05-31-2016, 06:16 PM
I admit a sick fascination with .357SIG (and bottleneck pistol cartridges in general), but if I wanted a non-9/40/45 Glock I'd just step up to a G20 and drive on.
Ahem. Why not do both (http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=954&CAT=241)? :D
LockedBreech
05-31-2016, 06:26 PM
What I really enjoy about this forum is that rather then giving me a bunch of reasoned advice about not buying something, I get some pros and cons for what my eye is on PLUS a bunch of other neat stuff.
The .357 SIG, I'll admit, is just a lingering fascination. In all reality, any serious use of my firearms would be one of my trusty nines while all the esoterica gleams in the safe.
But...I LIKE esoterica....
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LockedBreech
06-01-2016, 01:33 AM
If the P226 in .357 is NOT in fact weak, a CPO one in the $600 range might not be a terrible alternative to the G31...
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If the P226 in .357 is NOT in fact weak, a CPO one in the $600 range might not be a terrible alternative to the G31...
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Neither the 229 nor the one piece stainless slide P226s are weak (both are the exact same design and materials). I don't know where you are getting this idea.
PF member SURF had a duty P 226 40 cal which went something like 160k rounds. There is on old thread about it on M4C. I've seen FAMS firearms instructor P 229's with 80 to 100k rounds of .357 - the qualifier is they keep round counts / weapon logs and did the PM and changed springs as recommended.
I admit a sick fascination with .357SIG (and bottleneck pistol cartridges in general), but if I wanted a non-9/40/45 Glock I'd just step up to a G20 and drive on.
Glock 20 .357 SIG conversion barrel http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=948&CAT=241
The same basic impulse that seems to be driving you, filtered through my own lens, turned into a .38 Super Lightweight Commander. It is the gun I like shooting best. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160601/6acf35e17f25e8530c993fd7682f5d78.jpg
Chuck Haggard
06-01-2016, 05:46 AM
Glock 20 .357 SIG conversion barrel http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=948&CAT=241
I have a friend with a gen 3 G20, with extra .40 and .357Sig barrels, it's pretty cool
deputyG23
06-01-2016, 06:23 AM
The same basic impulse that seems to be driving you, filtered through my own lens, turned into a .38 Super Lightweight Commander. It is the gun I like shooting best. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160601/6acf35e17f25e8530c993fd7682f5d78.jpg
Lord, have mercy, you're killing me...
LockedBreech
06-01-2016, 07:46 AM
Neither the 229 nor the one piece stainless slide P226s are weak (both are the exact same design and materials). I don't know where you are getting this idea.
PF member SURF had a duty P 226 40 cal which went something like 160k rounds. There is on old thread about it on M4C. I've seen FAMS firearms instructor P 229's with 80 to 100k rounds of .357 - the qualifier is they keep round counts / weapon logs and did the PM and changed springs as recommended.
I had posted earlier that I seem to have conflated it with other 9mm guns that weren't properly redesigned for 40, like the Beretta 96. I'm happy to be wrong there.
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LockedBreech
06-01-2016, 03:03 PM
Bud's has CPO P226 .357s for about $650. Given that I'm already a .40 guy with a good stock of .40 and an extra barrel would effectively make that two guns, I'm decently persuaded to go with Sig for .357 Sig.
Which having typed it out makes sense.
This place is expensive. I have a Gen 4 Glock 23, and now I am wondering if I should buy a KKM .357 Sig barrel for it?
Chuck Haggard
06-01-2016, 03:38 PM
This place is expensive. I have a Gen 4 Glock 23, and now I am wondering if I should buy a KKM .357 Sig barrel for it?
The .357Sig Gold Dot is a higher penetration load, with a fairly aggressive nose on the hollow point that is prone to digging into hard cover.
A guy with a bear problem might need a BUG.....
The .357Sig Gold Dot is a higher penetration load, with a fairly aggressive nose on the hollow point that is prone to digging into hard cover.
A guy with a bear problem might need a BUG.....
I have the Gold Dot, 147 XTP and 140 FMJ, all of which have a rep for penetration.
Any idea whether .357 Sig is more, the same or less reliable in a 23 size gun than forty?
LockedBreech
06-01-2016, 03:53 PM
Welp, waited too long, the CPO is gone :-/
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coldcase1984
06-01-2016, 04:31 PM
Hey, you, get offa my cloud.
Or you could...
8237
Kidding. Sorta. But if it's just for giggles, this thing's a lot of giggles so far... o.O
What brand barrel are you using?
I have my old Narcotics P229 .40 sitting fallow. Need to look around and see if somebody makes an accurate aftermarket barrel that's a bit longer than stock length to squeeze more velocity.
Last I heard, Tennessee Highway Patrol was digging their .357 Glocks, 31s and 33s, and they performed a lot better on car bodies and human bodies than the old G22s & 27s.
Kimura
06-01-2016, 04:41 PM
First, I admit that for no rational reason whatsoever, I like Glocks more than Sigs. But if you want a P226-40/357, I don't think they're really that hard to find. I've shot a couple of 226s in 40 and they handled the cartridge well. I wouldn't think it would be any different in .357.
Honestly if I wanted a Glock in that caliber, the 29 or the 20 with a conversion barrel would be something I would take a long look at. Bigger gun/heavier slide plays into it; but, more importantly you can also shoot 10mm, which I believe is the closest major caliber to .357 magnum in a semi auto. Which for whatever reason is really interesting to me right now. That probably didn't help at all; sorry. Back to my lane now.
LockedBreech
06-01-2016, 04:50 PM
First, I admit that for no rational reason whatsoever, I like Glocks more than Sigs. But if you want a P226-40/357, I don't think they're really that hard to find. I've shot a couple of 226s in 40 and they handled the cartridge well. I wouldn't think it would be any different in .357.
Honestly if I wanted a Glock in that caliber, the 29 or the 20 with a conversion barrel would be something I would take a long look at. Bigger gun/heavier slide plays into it; but, more importantly you can also shoot 10mm, which I believe is the closest major caliber to .357 magnum in a semi auto. Which for whatever reason is really interesting to me right now. That probably didn't help at all; sorry. Back to my lane now.
They're not hard to find, but I like the 90 day layaway thing at Bud's, hurts less when I can split it across 6 paychecks.
I've never held a 10mm. Always imagined the guns are too fat to hold comfortably.
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Kimura
06-01-2016, 04:55 PM
They're not hard to find, but I like the 90 day layaway thing at Bud's, hurts less when I can split it across 6 paychecks.
I've never held a 10mm. Always imagined the guns are too fat to hold comfortably.
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I see. Makes perfect sense.
You should definitely hold a 20 or 29 and shoot one if possible before buying. I don't think the SF versions are really too big/fat; but, I have friends that do think they are, so it varies from person to person.
3-7-77
06-01-2016, 05:18 PM
I'm issued a P229R in .357 Sig and I think that and the P226 handle the cartridge well. Sig does now make a 1911 chambered in .357 with interests me for no other reason than I have a plethora of .357 ammo laying around.
If you are set on a Glock though, Gen4 is the way to go
JonInWA
06-01-2016, 05:31 PM
This place is expensive. I have a Gen 4 Glock 23, and now I am wondering if I should buy a KKM .357 Sig barrel for it?
Why not get the Glock OEM .357 SIG barrel for it? Are you planning on shooting lead 357?
Best, Jon
45dotACP
06-01-2016, 05:41 PM
The same basic impulse that seems to be driving you, filtered through my own lens, turned into a .38 Super Lightweight Commander. It is the gun I like shooting best. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160601/6acf35e17f25e8530c993fd7682f5d78.jpg
Oof, that commander tho...
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The same basic impulse that seems to be driving you, filtered through my own lens, turned into a .38 Super Lightweight Commander. It is the gun I like shooting best. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160601/6acf35e17f25e8530c993fd7682f5d78.jpg
PURTY blaster Yo!
Why not get the Glock OEM .357 SIG barrel for it? Are you planning on shooting lead 357?
Best, Jon
"Cause the Rowland Special uses a KKM. :)
Is there an advantage to the KKM being fully supported?
Oof, that commander tho...
It's not /whether/ a Commander, it's /which/ Commander. And I apologize to the OP for the thread drift, while at the same time hoping that it costs him thousands of dollars.
ST911
06-01-2016, 08:07 PM
The .357Sig Gold Dot is a higher penetration load, with a fairly aggressive nose on the hollow point that is prone to digging into hard cover.
A guy with a bear problem might need a BUG.....
I have the Gold Dot, 147 XTP and 140 FMJ, all of which have a rep for penetration.
Which of the two 357sig GDHPs are you guys choosing?
Which of the two 357sig GDHPs are you guys choosing?
I have the 125 grain GD load. Just looked and apparently there are two 125 grain loads, 53918 and 54234, and will need to look and see which one I have. What is the difference between the two?
LockedBreech
06-01-2016, 09:51 PM
It's not /whether/ a Commander, it's /which/ Commander. And I apologize to the OP for the thread drift, while at the same time hoping that it costs him thousands of dollars.
Not often I get a genuine lol.
As OP I sanction thread drift, at least within the graces of the moderator, as it's almost always worthwhile on this forum.
That IS a seriously gorgeous 1911.
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LockedBreech
06-01-2016, 10:11 PM
Update: Thanks to this thread, my vow to only buy one gun in 2016 was broken at June 1, 2016. Nearly half the year. Not bad.
Certified Pre-Owned Sig P226 in .357 SIG for $650 even.
Not a life-changing deal, but with a .40 barrel I'll essentially have two P226s for the price of one, plus a fun new caliber to play with. Worth it.
Update: Thanks to this thread, my vow to only buy one gun in 2016 was broken at June 1, 2016. Nearly half the year. Not bad.
Certified Pre-Owned Sig P226 in .357 SIG for $650 even.
Not a life-changing deal, but with a .40 barrel I'll essentially have two P226s for the price of one, plus a fun new caliber to play with. Worth it.
And for not too much, you can get a 9mm caliber Xchange kit for when you want to shoot your 226 a lot.
LockedBreech
06-01-2016, 10:28 PM
And for not too much, you can get a 9mm caliber Xchange kit for when you want to shoot your 226 a lot.
Wait, really? It's convertible to 9 with reliability? Where can I buy this magic? Is it a replacement slide? Because I'll buy that up and own an all-3-calibers P226 in a heartbeat.
Wait, really? It's convertible to 9 with reliability? Where can I buy this magic? Is it a replacement slide? Because I'll buy that up and own an all-3-calibers P226 in a heartbeat.
Shop around, but here is the listing. I have bought a few from Osage. There is even a .22 kit.
http://store.sigsauer.com/caliber-x-change-kit-p226-9mm-blk.html
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LockedBreech
06-01-2016, 11:00 PM
Shop around, but here is the listing. I have bought a few from Osage. There is even a .22 kit.
http://store.sigsauer.com/caliber-x-change-kit-p226-9mm-blk.html
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Outstanding, thanks
Wait, really? It's convertible to 9 with reliability? Where can I buy this magic? Is it a replacement slide? Because I'll buy that up and own an all-3-calibers P226 in a heartbeat.
You can do the caliber exchange kit with a complete new slide (what I have for my 40 cal 226's) or you can do a 40 to 9 conversion barrel. I have the Bar-Sto 40-9 conversion barrel in a SIG 229. With duty ammo, it runs fine on the 40 recoil spring and using 40 magazines ( 14 rounds in a 12 round 40 mag) for lighter range ammo a 9mm spring is cheap insurance.
http://www.topgunsupply.com/gun-parts/barrels/bar-sto-barrels.html
The P series .22 kits are hit or miss reliability wise. Mine only runs on CCI MINI MAGS and is still not 100% reliable.
You can do the caliber exchange kit with a complete new slide (what I have for my 40 cal 226's) or you can do a 40 to 9 conversion barrel. I have the Bar-Sto 40-9 conversion barrel in a SIG 229. With duty ammo, it runs fine on the 40 recoil spring and using 40 magazines ( 14 rounds in a 12 round 40 mag) for lighter range ammo a 9mm spring is cheap insurance.
http://www.topgunsupply.com/gun-parts/barrels/bar-sto-barrels.html
The P series .22 kits are hit or miss reliability wise. Mine only runs on CCI MINI MAGS and is still not 100% reliable.
A consideration is that the .40 usually requires a taller front sight than 9 or .357 Sig. As I recall, the HD sights for the Sig for example, have a .10 taller front sight for the .40. An advantage of a separate slide for 9mm, is you get the proper height front sight for that caliber. Of course, then your .40 slide will likely hit low with .357 Sig, unless you regulate sights for the .357 instead of the .40.
A consideration is that the .40 usually requires a taller front sight than 9 or .357 Sig. As I recall, the HD sights for the Sig for example, have a .10 taller front sight for the .40. An advantage of a separate slide for 9mm, is you get the proper height front sight for that caliber. Of course, then your .40 slide will likely hit low with .357 Sig, unless you regulate sights for the .357 instead of the .40.
But the OP is buying a .357 which comes with the same 8/8 sights as the 9mm rather than the 6/8 combo found on 40's.
But the OP is buying a .357 which comes with the same 8/8 sights as the 9mm rather than the 6/8 combo found on 40's.
well, then the .40 barrel will shoot high, unless it is like one of my Sig .357 pistols that came with 6/8 sights!
Without diving too deep in the weeds, even 8/8 height proportions shot too low for one or two of my .357 uppers, and I had to order special, shorter front HD sights, which are available at Optics Planet.
well, then the .40 barrel will shoot high, unless it is like one of my Sig .357 pistols that came with 6/8 sights!
Without diving too deep in the weeds, even 8/8 height proportions shot too low for one or two of my .357 uppers, and I had to order special, shorter front HD sights, which are available at Optics Planet.
IME the 6/8 vs 8/8 is a rough guide - it depends on the gun and ammo.
My 229r 40 with the bar sto 9mm barrel shoots close enough to POA I've no inclination to mess with it.
coldcase1984
06-02-2016, 08:39 AM
Will one of those 226 caliber xchange setups work on my '92 9mm frame, SIG people? I'd rather have a little more barrel length than a stock 229 barrel provides. Definitely considering converting my '96 229 to 9mm and .357...need to dig out my old armorer's manual and replace all the springs. Besides frequent practice, I made two trips to M.I.S.S. using it as my primary pistol; no telling how many rounds have run through that old blaster.
LockedBreech
06-02-2016, 08:44 AM
Seeking thoughts on the flush fit Mec Gar 13-round anti friction .40/.357 mags for the 226. Good to go like their 9mm magazines?
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1986s4
06-02-2016, 09:11 AM
The same basic impulse that seems to be driving you, filtered through my own lens, turned into a .38 Super Lightweight Commander. It is the gun I like shooting best. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160601/6acf35e17f25e8530c993fd7682f5d78.jpg
Beat me to it. The Super can be pushed rather fast but get a ramped barrel. I sure like my Colt super, my "just because" gun.
Tamara
06-02-2016, 02:31 PM
Beat me to it. The Super can be pushed rather fast but get a ramped barrel...
...made in the last 20 years so you can just use 9x23 and be done with it. :D
Seeking thoughts on the flush fit Mec Gar 13-round anti friction .40/.357 mags for the 226. Good to go like their 9mm magazines?
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Yes. I have some of these as well as their extended base plate 15 rounders.
Will one of those 226 caliber xchange setups work on my '92 9mm frame, SIG people? I'd rather have a little more barrel length than a stock 229 barrel provides. Definitely considering converting my '96 229 to 9mm and .357...need to dig out my old armorer's manual and replace all the springs. Besides frequent practice, I made two trips to M.I.S.S. using it as my primary pistol; no telling how many rounds have run through that old blaster.
Is your '92 9mm a P 226 or a P 229? 226 EX kit should work on a 226 frame regardless of age. I don't know if a 226 EX kit would work on a 229 frame.
With the 229, there are variations between the rail and non rail. And between the German and US frames. You need an EX kit specific to your gun or you may need to swap out the locking block in the frame. I believe there are three different 229 exchange kits.
coldcase1984
06-02-2016, 08:37 PM
Thank you.
Sammy1
06-03-2016, 06:35 AM
$329 @ recoil gun works, G31 police trade in.
LSP972
06-03-2016, 10:06 AM
Last I heard, Tennessee Highway Patrol was digging their .357 Glocks, 31s and 33s, and they performed a lot better on car bodies and human bodies than the old G22s & 27s.
Well, things differ. Last year, two Mississippi Highway Patrol troopers chased a heathen into St Helena parish, Louisiana, just across the state line. Said heathen crashed into the woods, took a shot at them from inside his stolen Range Rover SUV , and they lit him up with their issued G31s and Gold Dot JHPs. One fired 12 rounds, the other trooper fired seven.
That vehicle was brought to our lab and we did a detailed exam. All nineteen rounds hit the Range Rover, some through the back door and the glass, some through the left rear quarter panel and left rear door at a slight angle. The troopers were about ten yards away. Two... TWO.. of those bullets made it all way to the front seat area; one passed through the villains' pants leg, which made him decide to give up. IMO, those bullets made it as far through all the metal/plastic/glass/leather than any 9mm JHPs would (FMC bullets are a different story); and about the same as .40 JHPs and more than .45 JHPs. I say that in comparison with all the other vehicles we have seen shot up with Euro Pellets, .40s, and .45s of various bullet types. But the .357 Sig Gold Dots still didn't do so hot.
My point here is that, as far as I'm concerned, too much credit is generally given to the .357 Sig in general in terms of bullet penetration; whether from "tests" or opinions. I bought a USPc .357 Sig and 900 rounds of Fiochhi ball ammo, that was offered for sale at a very good price... I got it just for interest. I agree that the cartridge definitely has a much flatter trajectory past 25 yards than the other three "common calibers". But it prints the same nice small groups at 25 yards as the others... and my deteriorating vision makes me work hard to hit well at 100 yards.
I find that the cartridge is obnoxiously LOUD, and has quite a bit of muzzle flash from the USPc 3.5" barrel. Also, as Hauptman said, reloading these cartridges is very tricky in terms of proper case neck tension, so I too decided not to do any reloading for it. I cleaned the pistol, put in the back corner of the safe, put the ammo in a far corner of the shop, and it will all stay there unless I feel like playing with it again.
Again... not trying to criticize the cartridge; to me its simply something that would be interesting -for a short while- to examine and work with, but for one's carry piece/identical practice piece/routine practicing... I'll stay with the Euro Pellet or .45ACP.
.
Probably the first time a Range Rover was seen in LA, no less be part of a crime scene. :)
I bought some of that Fiocchi for my .357, too.
LSP972
06-03-2016, 10:15 AM
Probably the first time a Range Rover was seen in LA,
Nah. The wealthy yuppies here and in New Orleans have a lot of them, along with their Birkenstocks and latte's.
.
psalms144.1
06-03-2016, 10:34 AM
...snip...That vehicle was brought to our lab and we did a detailed exam. Apropos of nothing else in this thread, but, you have the coolest job ever. I'll go back to reviewing contract files now...
LockedBreech
06-03-2016, 11:02 AM
Well, things differ. Last year, two Mississippi Highway Patrol troopers chased a heathen into St Helena parish, Louisiana, just across the state line. Said heathen crashed into the woods, took a shot at them from inside his stolen Range Rover SUV , and they lit him up with their issued G31s and Gold Dot JHPs. One fired 12 rounds, the other trooper fired seven.
That vehicle was brought to our lab and we did a detailed exam. All nineteen rounds hit the Range Rover, some through the back door and the glass, some through the left rear quarter panel and left rear door at a slight angle. The troopers were about ten yards away. Two... TWO.. of those bullets made it all way to the front seat area; one passed through the villains' pants leg, which made him decide to give up. IMO, those bullets made it as far through all the metal/plastic/glass/leather than any 9mm JHPs would (FMC bullets are a different story); and about the same as .40 JHPs and more than .45 JHPs. I say that in comparison with all the other vehicles we have seen shot up with Euro Pellets, .40s, and .45s of various bullet types. But the .357 Sig Gold Dots still didn't do so hot.
My point here is that, as far as I'm concerned, too much credit is generally given to the .357 Sig in general in terms of bullet penetration; whether from "tests" or opinions. I bought a USPc .357 Sig and 900 rounds of Fiochhi ball ammo, that was offered for sale at a very good price... I got it just for interest. I agree that the cartridge definitely has a much flatter trajectory past 25 yards than the other three "common calibers". But it prints the same nice small groups at 25 yards as the others... and my deteriorating vision makes me work hard to hit well at 100 yards.
I find that the cartridge is obnoxiously LOUD, and has quite a bit of muzzle flash from the USPc 3.5" barrel. Also, as Hauptman said, reloading these cartridges is very tricky in terms of proper case neck tension, so I too decided not to do any reloading for it. I cleaned the pistol, put in the back corner of the safe, put the ammo in a far corner of the shop, and it will all stay there unless I feel like playing with it again.
Again... not trying to criticize the cartridge; to me its simply something that would be interesting -for a short while- to examine and work with, but for one's carry piece/identical practice piece/routine practicing... I'll stay with the Euro Pellet or .45ACP.
.
Great contribution, LSP, thank you. It's very much just a fun lark for me, the same way I won't actually carry my pristine Colt Detective Special. That's also the reason I'm getting a .40 barrel and eventually a 9mm conversion for the 226 .357 I just got. At the end of the day, no matter how many of these toys I get, there's a 90% or better chance that the nightstand will have my Beretta 92 and my hip will have my PPS. Gold Dot 124 +p has proven itself well to my satisfaction.
But it WILL be a fun little Piccadillo for a while.
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LockedBreech
06-03-2016, 11:58 AM
$329 @ recoil gun works, G31 police trade in.
This freaking forum is going to bankrupt me. I have an FFL friend I can probably trade into a Gen 4 cheap with this. I almost have to do it.
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I almost have to do it.
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I know. It's out of your hands now. :D
LSP972
06-03-2016, 12:14 PM
It's very much just a fun lark for me...
Oh, I understand completely. That beautiful .38 Super Commander has got me thinking again about one of these new lightweight Commanders in Euro Pellet caliber...
http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Pistols/Lightweight-Commander
I need it like I need another hole in the head... so what?:cool:
.
LockedBreech
06-03-2016, 12:34 PM
Oh, I understand completely. That beautiful .38 Super Commander has got me thinking again about one of these new lightweight Commanders in Euro Pellet caliber...
http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Pistols/Lightweight-Commander
I need it like I need another hole in the head... so what?:cool:
.
Do iiiit #enabler
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Sero Sed Serio
06-03-2016, 02:04 PM
Well, things differ. Last year, two Mississippi Highway Patrol troopers chased a heathen into St Helena parish, Louisiana, just across the state line. Said heathen crashed into the woods, took a shot at them from inside his stolen Range Rover SUV , and they lit him up with their issued G31s and Gold Dot JHPs. One fired 12 rounds, the other trooper fired seven.
That vehicle was brought to our lab and we did a detailed exam. All nineteen rounds hit the Range Rover, some through the back door and the glass, some through the left rear quarter panel and left rear door at a slight angle. The troopers were about ten yards away. Two... TWO.. of those bullets made it all way to the front seat area; one passed through the villains' pants leg, which made him decide to give up. IMO, those bullets made it as far through all the metal/plastic/glass/leather than any 9mm JHPs would (FMC bullets are a different story); and about the same as .40 JHPs and more than .45 JHPs. I say that in comparison with all the other vehicles we have seen shot up with Euro Pellets, .40s, and .45s of various bullet types. But the .357 Sig Gold Dots still didn't do so hot.
My point here is that, as far as I'm concerned, too much credit is generally given to the .357 Sig in general in terms of bullet penetration; whether from "tests" or opinions. I bought a USPc .357 Sig and 900 rounds of Fiochhi ball ammo, that was offered for sale at a very good price... I got it just for interest. I agree that the cartridge definitely has a much flatter trajectory past 25 yards than the other three "common calibers". But it prints the same nice small groups at 25 yards as the others... and my deteriorating vision makes me work hard to hit well at 100 yards.
I find that the cartridge is obnoxiously LOUD, and has quite a bit of muzzle flash from the USPc 3.5" barrel. Also, as Hauptman said, reloading these cartridges is very tricky in terms of proper case neck tension, so I too decided not to do any reloading for it. I cleaned the pistol, put in the back corner of the safe, put the ammo in a far corner of the shop, and it will all stay there unless I feel like playing with it again.
Again... not trying to criticize the cartridge; to me its simply something that would be interesting -for a short while- to examine and work with, but for one's carry piece/identical practice piece/routine practicing... I'll stay with the Euro Pellet or .45ACP.
.
Just to add to this, about a decade ago I had a cracked windshield I needed replaced. When the guy swapped it I asked if I could keep the old one for some semi-formal ballistic tests. He was happy to do so because it made his job easier, and gave me two others. So off to the desert with some 2x4s to hold them up at an angle and a blanket to catch the broken glass so I wouldn't be THAT guy...
I shot index cards placed several feet behind the windshield about where a driver would be to see the POA/POI shift. I think the tests were somewhat unremarkable except for the .357 SIG rounds--they consistently split into 2--I think it was the combination of high velocity and light weight.
DocGKR
06-03-2016, 02:08 PM
"My point here is that, as far as I'm concerned, too much credit is generally given to the .357 Sig in general in terms of bullet penetration; whether from "tests" or opinions."
Yup. In our testing and that of the FBI BRF, equivalently constructed 9 mm and 357 Sig perform nearly identically against common intermediate barriers, as well as in soft tissue...
And yes, 357 Sig is obnoxiously loud and has a lot of blast.
Yup. In our testing and that of the FBI BRF, equivalently constructed 9 mm and 357 Sig perform nearly identically against common intermediate barriers, as well as in soft tissue...
And yes, 357 Sig is obnoxiously loud and has a lot of blast.
How about in stuff that might represent a thick animal skull?
LockedBreech
06-03-2016, 02:28 PM
Yup. In our testing and that of the FBI BRF, equivalently constructed 9 mm and 357 Sig perform nearly identically against common intermediate barriers, as well as in soft tissue...
And yes, 357 Sig is obnoxiously loud and has a lot of blast.
I know I'm dumb, doc, just let me have this one
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Tamara
06-03-2016, 09:07 PM
My recent playing around with a Glock 32 has been interesting...
This makes it 1050 total rounds fired since the firearm was last cleaned or lubricated, with four failures to go completely into battery (#63, #78, #126, #748), four failures to feed (#221, #224, #282, #734), and one failure to eject (#1,033). 950 rounds left to go. (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2016/06/ten-fiddy.html)
It's pretty apparent to me that Glock's reputation for reliability was built on the original gangsta 9x19mm guns...
My recent playing around with a Glock 32 has been interesting...
It's pretty apparent to me that Glock's reputation for reliability was built on the original gangsta 9x19mm guns...
Between this and Paul Howe's report on his .357 Glock, you may have just saved me some money on a barrel.
Tamara
06-03-2016, 09:15 PM
Between this and Paul Howe's report on his .357 Glock, you may have just saved me some money on a barrel.
I think the bigger the G-lock, the less the fuss with the cartridge. Using the .357SIG conversion barrel in my Gen4 G35 exhibits none of the weird twitches the Gen3 32 has (like the "two-stage" muzzle flip caused by the slide bottoming out hard in recoil.)
I think the bigger the G-lock, the less the fuss with the cartridge. Using the .357SIG conversion barrel in my Gen4 G35 exhibits none of the weird twitches the Gen3 32 has (like the "two-stage" muzzle flip caused by the slide bottoming out hard in recoil.)
G32, 35, M&P, admit it, you have a .357 problem.
Tamara
06-03-2016, 09:29 PM
G32, 35, M&P, admit it, you have a .357 problem.
I have made peace with my inner gun hipster. :D
Did you know they make 6" .40 Super barrels that'll fit the G41?
I have made peace with my inner gun hipster. :D
Did you know they make 6" .40 Super barrels that'll fit the G41?
Too long to AIWB!
Tamara
06-03-2016, 09:37 PM
Too long to AIWB!
Urkel trousers.
LockedBreech
06-03-2016, 10:17 PM
My recent playing around with a Glock 32 has been interesting...
It's pretty apparent to me that Glock's reputation for reliability was built on the original gangsta 9x19mm guns...
Been following your 32 test.
I didn't end up grabbing that 31, even for $329. I made my pick with a CPO Sig 226 and a factory new .40 barrel, we'll see how it does for me.
I, too, am a gun hipster and at peace with it. 9mm does my serious work, but darn it, I can drive a Honda Accord and still have fun with a Delorian here and there.
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Hambo
06-04-2016, 01:59 PM
I have made peace with my inner gun hipster. :D
Not buying that until I see pics of you carrying a Bergmann Simplex or a folding trigger Bodeo 1889.
Tam, how come you don't have a 2022 in .357 -- bet that would run great.
Tamara
06-04-2016, 04:49 PM
Tam, how come you don't have a 2022 in .357 -- bet that would run great.
Don't think I didn't give it serious thought when I saw how cheap those FDE ones w/nights were going for. :eek:
Guy asks Tam, "hey, what platform do you shoot?"
Tam replies, ".357 Sig."
Tamara
06-05-2016, 09:41 PM
Like I wrote elsewhere, "(The Glock) is the Toyota Camry of pistols. The .357SIG Glocks are the Toyota Camry with a goofy wing and a fart can exhaust of pistols." :D
taadski
06-05-2016, 09:47 PM
Urkel trousers.
He already has a few pairs of those, but his wife won't let him wear them outside the house!
coldcase1984
06-05-2016, 10:19 PM
A wing and a fart can has brought me home more than once...
LockedBreech
06-28-2016, 07:46 PM
Happy to update that the CPO 226 I chose came with a rail, E2 grips, a brand new barrel (looks identical to the factory new .40 barrel I bought, zero marks on the hood) and a brand new Nitron refinish. It looks like the twin to the 220R I paid $200 more for.
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LockedBreech
06-28-2016, 11:12 PM
Is there a way to tell for sure if it has the SRT trigger as well? The trigger feels way different than my 220R and resets way faster.
Re the .357 Sig round . . . not a G31 but was it a Sig round that took this intruder at the White House down WITH ONE SHOT! ;)
http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/29/white-house-video-shows-man-shot-by-secret-service-with-gun/
LockedBreech
09-12-2017, 12:39 PM
To necro my own thread for an update:
I got a CPO Sig P226 in .40 and bought a .357 SIG barrel for it and equipped it with Mec-Gar 13-round magazines. On my first range trip, first round of .357 Sig, I had a fail-to-feed with the .357 SIG after running a few magazines of .40 just fine. I had repeated fail-to-feeds the rest of the brief session. I took it home, cleaned and lubricated it, and found that was 100% bone dry. My idiot move for not maintaining my equipment. After lubricating the gun it has been fully reliable with both .40 and .357 SIG FMJ and JHP (Speer Gold Dot 125-gran, Speer Gold Dot 180-grain, American Eagle 180-grain, and Speer Lawman 125-grain).
Around the same time I got a 357 SIG conversion barrel for my M&P .40 and had a light primer strike the first round. Ran fine after that.
I am leery of the reliability of the cartridge now and haven't shot it much, but I'm going to make a concerted effort in the next few months to run the 226 decently hard to shake off that first impression. Can't blame my car for not running when I don't put oil in it. Serious work guns all continue to be 9mm Glocks.
On some stupid level I still crave a Gen4 G32. But gun money is more limited these days and I likely won't scratch that itch unless I find a dirt-cheap pre-owned one.
Sero Sed Serio
09-12-2017, 02:56 PM
To necro my own thread for an update:
I got a CPO Sig P226 in .40 and bought a .357 SIG barrel for it and equipped it with Mec-Gar 13-round magazines. On my first range trip, first round of .357 Sig, I had a fail-to-feed with the .357 SIG after running a few magazines of .40 just fine. I had repeated fail-to-feeds the rest of the brief session. I took it home, cleaned and lubricated it, and found that was 100% bone dry. My idiot move for not maintaining my equipment. After lubricating the gun it has been fully reliable with both .40 and .357 SIG FMJ and JHP (Speer Gold Dot 125-gran, Speer Gold Dot 180-grain, American Eagle 180-grain, and Speer Lawman 125-grain).
Around the same time I got a 357 SIG conversion barrel for my M&P .40 and had a light primer strike the first round. Ran fine after that.
I am leery of the reliability of the cartridge now and haven't shot it much, but I'm going to make a concerted effort in the next few months to run the 226 decently hard to shake off that first impression. Can't blame my car for not running when I don't put oil in it. Serious work guns all continue to be 9mm Glocks.
On some stupid level I still crave a Gen4 G32. But gun money is more limited these days and I likely won't scratch that itch unless I find a dirt-cheap pre-owned one.
That's interesting that it would feed fine with .40, but choke on .357, as I was under the impression that the .357 bottleneck made it slightly more resistant to feeding issues. I wonder if it was something inherent to the round or something else like the gun heating up or the first few mags using up the last little bit of lube.
I'll look forward to your reports on how the gun performs over the next few months.
LockedBreech
09-12-2017, 03:39 PM
something else like the gun heating up or the first few mags using up the last little bit of lube.
Very well could have been, given that I didn't go back and try the .40 again.
iveschris
09-12-2017, 06:49 PM
Since the thread has been revived and moved towards conversion barrels, thought I'd chime in. I've put .357 Sig barrels in a Glock 35 (which hadn't been out of the safe in a long time) and a Glock 20 (Gen III). The former was a KKM drop-in and the latter a Jarvis (no longer catalogued although I've only had mine a year; Hamilton, MT). As Tam mentioned earlier, such a conversion makes some of the badness - real or perceived - go away or at least ameliorated. The '20 especially (with an aftermarket-RSA of 22# IIRC) purrs along, ejects consistently, and has at least the accuracy that 10mm does out of a factory or KKM barrel (my BarSto barrel may be a skosh more accurate).
On the subject of mags for each, I've bought '31 mags for the '35 when the .357 Sig barrel's aboard but '22 mags have worked without a hitch. One of the beauties of the '20 conversion barrel is that .357 (and .40, for which I have a KKM barrel) feeds fine out of '20 mags.
Lest you think I've too much time on my hands, the choice of conversion barrels was dictated by the ammo left for sale on the shelves observed during a couple of guns and ammo panics over the past eight years. Since so many folks shoot 9mm (cheapest, widely available), often .40 and .357 Sig were still for sale when little else was available. Even .45 ACP was often hard to find. In addition, one of my former lives required frequent travel. Airlines restrict you to eleven pounds of ammo, which ain't that much. So, I have a three caliber shooter and only need one mag to shoot everything.
LockedBreech
09-12-2017, 07:47 PM
Lest you think I've too much time on my hands, the choice of conversion barrels was dictated by the ammo left for sale on the shelves observed during a couple of guns and ammo panics over the past eight years. Since so many folks shoot 9mm (cheapest, widely available), often .40 and .357 Sig were still for sale when little else was available. Even .45 ACP was often hard to find. In addition, one of my former lives required frequent travel. Airlines restrict you to eleven pounds of ammo, which ain't that much. So, I have a three caliber shooter and only need one mag to shoot everything.
I was very much vindicated for keeping a few .40s around during the 2012 ammo panic. For about 6 months I was the only one in my shooting group that could find decently priced ammo to shoot regularly.
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Tamara
09-12-2017, 07:51 PM
I was very much vindicated for keeping a few .40s around during the 2012 ammo panic. For about 6 months I was the only one in my shooting group that could find decently priced ammo to shoot regularly.
My Gen4 35 with the spare 9mm and .357SIG barrels is omnivorous. I should get someone to make me a .30 Luger barrel for it, too, just because. :D
Not dumb. I cast a vote for the p239 in .357sig.
Salamander
09-12-2017, 08:50 PM
For several years I carried a HK P2000 in .357 Sig when in the backcountry or anyplace I was likely to encounter large wildlife (lots of black bears here but the only grizzlies left in California are on the state flag). Note that HK stopped making .357 Sig pistols some years back although barrels are still sometimes available, so I jumped at the chance to buy this one from a SoCal LE; it came with a .40 barrel as well.
It was completely reliable, carried through the Trinity Alps for days at a time, over coastal sand dunes, in heavy winter rains, etc. Checking the range book here, it went through 2,016 rounds without a stoppage. With quality ammo it was accurate, with cheap reman made during the height of the ammo panic not so much. As mentioned by others, it's fun to shoot at longer distances. For me, and in the P2000 incarnation, I like it a lot better than .40. A faster, lighter snap, and I can shoot it nearly as quickly as 9mm +p.
I've pretty much moved away from it recently though, and that's largely as a result of the threads elsewhere on P-F about woods guns and Lehigh/Underwood Xtreme Penetrator. While they make that in .357 Sig, it appears to be the same bullet used in 9mm which makes me just a little nervous (setback potential), and early indications are that 9mm +p penetration with the all copper round is as good and maybe better. I was carrying 147 gr Hornady XTP or 125 gr Gold Dot in the .357 Sig and there was no guarantee that was going to punch through a bear skull anyway.
So, back in the safe for a while. I'm going to keep it and it's still fun to shoot, the woods carry duty will go to the 9mm P2000's and P2000sk's for the time being.
LockedBreech
09-13-2017, 11:24 AM
The Xtreme Penetrator round is a wonderful renewed use for my .40 firearms. .40 was already a solid woods round, but those penetrators seem to be a major advance in getting through thick fur and bone.
I have an inherent suspicion of boutique rounds, an extra suspicion for rounds with Xtreme in the name, and my concerns about the shape of the round feeding, but the testing seems to be bearing out okay.
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On Hornady's site, it was the .357 Sig's Critical Duty load's penetration of 15" of gel AFTER defeating windshield glass got me thinking that load would probably hold it's own pretty well as a woods cartridge.
Since I got my G22 back from AK I have hardly shot my G31. Yesterday I broke it out to check POI of a couple loads for deer season.
Hornady 147 grain XTP and 135 grain Critical Duty.
The XTP load grouped into the 10 ring at 25 yds, GTG.
The Critical Duty grouped about 6" higher, up in the 8/7 ring of the B8. No go. It is a No Go.
But that CD is notably softer recoiling than the XTP. FWIW.
But first I warmed up with the FBI modified bulleye and shot a 286 with Remington UMC.
That's as good as I've ever shot it with a 1911.
20128
spyderco monkey
09-18-2017, 06:22 PM
Underwood has a new load using the 65gr Xtreme Defender solid copper - 2160fps from the Glock 31 per testing from a user over on Glock Talk. Makes me wish I had kept my G31.
What's really wild is the guy shot the same .357 Sig round from his 16" barrel Aero carbine - 2699fps from a 16" barrel - pretty much identical to the velocity of the 64gr Gold Dot .223.
https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/new-underwood-ammo-a-65gr-357-sig-offering-velocity-2100-fps.1655467/
Tamara
09-18-2017, 07:01 PM
Since I got my G22 back from AK I have hardly shot my G31. Yesterday I broke it out to check POI of a couple loads for deer season.
Hornady 147 grain XTP and 135 grain Critical Duty.
I had big hopes for the 147gr XTP .357SIG. The 9mm 147gr XTP is known for not wanting to expand in anything but water or bare gel, but maybe sitting on top of a .357SIG case and fired out of a Glock 35 it would be different?
Last time we were shooting 4LD clear gel, I brought that gun and load along to scratch my itch. It expanded alright, and penetrated about eighteen inches...coming to rest in the catch block right between a couple 124gr 9x19mm +P HST's... :eek:
I'd like to try it through auto glass or sheet metal.
Lester Polfus
09-18-2017, 07:05 PM
I had big hopes for the 147gr XTP .357SIG. The 9mm 147gr XTP is known for not wanting to expand in anything but water or bare gel, but maybe sitting on top of a .357SIG case and fired out of a Glock 35 it would be different?
Last time we were shooting 4LD clear gel, I brought that gun and load along to scratch my itch. It expanded alright, and penetrated about eighteen inches...coming to rest in the catch block right between a couple 124gr 9x19mm +P HST's... :eek:
I'd like to try it through auto glass or sheet metal.
Is this the part where I should start talking about "energy dump" to justify carrying the boutique caliber with higher ammo prices and recoil?
I had big hopes for the 147gr XTP .357SIG. The 9mm 147gr XTP is known for not wanting to expand in anything but water or bare gel, but maybe sitting on top of a .357SIG case and fired out of a Glock 35 it would be different?
Last time we were shooting 4LD clear gel, I brought that gun and load along to scratch my itch. It expanded alright, and penetrated about eighteen inches...coming to rest in the catch block right between a couple 124gr 9x19mm +P HST's... :eek:
I'd like to try it through auto glass or sheet metal.
Yeah and in this hunting application I'm looking for something that drives deep. I expect on a lot of GA whitetails it may exit on a pure double lung broadside without shoulders hit. I hope to find out.
Velo Dog
09-19-2017, 06:26 PM
I had big hopes for the 147gr XTP .357SIG...I'd like to try it through auto glass or sheet metal.
The 147gr XTP in 9mm does 12"/.570" after glass and 16.25"/.510" in the sheet metal test. Sheds its jacket in both, however. A little extra velocity might not hurt, but probably won't be a big benefit either
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