Let's talk about transitions

[Luke]

How do you seasoned pro's do it?

I'm wanting to pick up my transistion speed and need some guidance!

I have been shooting and then semi keeping my sights on my vision and going to the next target and simultaneously getting back on the sights good and aiming at my preferred A zone :)

What I'm trying to do is quickly and aggressively snap my eyes to the exact spot I want to shoot and have the gun follow.

My questions:

Which one is the best method?

Is it right to basically Loose all of your sight picture going to the next target?

Do I continue to stare at the spot I want until the sights are aligned and then go back to a sighted focus?

Do I start going back to my sights as the gun is coming into my frame of vision and break my state on the A zone?

Am I making this more complicated than it should be?






My transition speed on semi close targets (think 7 yard Blake drill) are just as fast as my splits (.15-.19) but anything that requires legit aiming (think 20 yard hard partial) it's too slow. I feel like it's a vision thing but not sure.

[Mr_White]

Eyes are pointed at the target spot, front sight sharp and clear, the shooting commences and the shots are called. When the front sight lifts on the last shot on the current target, the eyes snap to the next target spot, which is now sharp and clear, and the gun immediately follows. While the gun is moving to the next target spot, visual focus shifts back to front sight distance, so when the gun stops on the next target spot, the front sight is already sharp and clear.

Alternatively, hold visual focus continuously at front sight distance and do everything else the same.

Or practice target focused shooting.

Small transition distance, just push the gun over gently. Big transition distance, snap the gun and drive the movement hard from your feet and ankles. But you must always stop the gun smoothly. For REALLY big transitions, you might bring the gun in and back out as you pivot your body.

[Clobbersaurus]

Interesting discussion Luke.

I do the snap eyes/require sights thing, all at a pace just above sloth level.

Though, with following the Stoeger book, my transition speed has really improved quite a bit.

[HCM]

How do you seasoned pro's do it?

I'm wanting to pick up my transistion speed and need some guidance!

I have been shooting and then semi keeping my sights on my vision and going to the next target and simultaneously getting back on the sights good and aiming at my preferred A zone :)

What I'm trying to do is quickly and aggressively snap my eyes to the exact spot I want to shoot and have the gun follow.

My questions:

Which one is the best method?

Is it right to basically Loose all of your sight picture going to the next target?

Do I continue to stare at the spot I want until the sights are aligned and then go back to a sighted focus?

Do I start going back to my sights as the gun is coming into my frame of vision and break my state on the A zone?

Am I making this more complicated than it should be?






My transition speed on semi close targets (think 7 yard Blake drill) are just as fast as my splits (.15-.19) but anything that requires legit aiming (think 20 yard hard partial) it's too slow. I feel like it's a vision thing but not sure.

I think some of this depends on your eyes.

I had been trying to use the method you are trying to adopt, quickly and aggressively snap eyes to the target and have the gun follow with poor results. I was doing this because I was told this is "what you are supposed to do".

I recently took a one day class with Dr. No. He suggested doing what you are doing now- keeping my my vision on the sights as I go to the next target and simultaneously getting back on the sights and aiming. It was noticeably faster for me.

[Mr_White]

Wow, I've never heard of that way being better for anyone before, cool.

[HCM]

Wow, I've never heard of that way being better for anyone before, cool.

Maybe I was doing it wrong but it was faster for me. I think I was finding myself tracking the sights up-and-down and THEN moving my eyes to the next target instead of riding the recoil on to the next target.

We don't do a lot of multiple target/transition shooting at work so I've identified it as a weak area I need to work on.

[ReverendMeat]

I've been maintaining front sight focus during the transition, starting the transition during recoil. Looking at the second target before acquiring a sight picture is really slow for me but I admit to not having practiced that much. Though thinking about it, if my targets weren't so close together it might make more sense.

[EricM]

I bookmarked this thread (http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12302&p=141673) when I was researching transitions last year, posts 12 and 13 in particular really helped me understand where the movement should be (and should not be). Still got a long way to go. Recently I've found "point with your hips" to be a useful cue.

[Sal Picante]

Eyes are pointed at the target spot, front sight sharp and clear, the shooting commences and the shots are called. When the front sight lifts on the last shot on the current target, the eyes snap to the next target spot, which is now sharp and clear, and the gun immediately follows. While the gun is moving to the next target spot, visual focus shifts back to front sight distance, so when the gun stops on the next target spot, the front sight is already sharp and clear.

Alternatively, hold visual focus continuously at front sight distance and do everything else the same.

Or practice target focused shooting.

Small transition distance, just push the gun over gently. Big transition distance, snap the gun and drive the movement hard from your feet and ankles. But you must always stop the gun smoothly. For REALLY big transitions, you might bring the gun in and back out as you pivot your body.


^ This...

Only thing I'd add is: Once you're getting decent, make sure to mix up transitions drills to work different "modes":

e.g. shoot target focused close/fast targets and then have to transition to far steel

-or-

shoot 7 yard open target, transition to tiny steel, transition to close/fast, then back again.

You see this in matches ALL THE TIME.

[Luke]

Eyes are pointed at the target spot, front sight sharp and clear, the shooting commences and the shots are called. When the front sight lifts on the last shot on the current target, the eyes snap to the next target spot, which is now sharp and clear, and the gun immediately follows. While the gun is moving to the next target spot, visual focus shifts back to front sight distance, so when the gun stops on the next target spot, the front sight is already sharp and clear.

Alternatively, hold visual focus continuously at front sight distance and do everything else the same.

Or practice target focused shooting.

Small transition distance, just push the gun over gently. Big transition distance, snap the gun and drive the movement hard from your feet and ankles. But you must always stop the gun smoothly. For REALLY big transitions, you might bring the gun in and back out as you pivot your body.


I think I'm gonna try and hold the same focus I had on my sight and see how that feels. I think a lot of my time is spent re adjusting my eyes as I feel like they focus/refocus slowly.

[Luke]

^ This...

Only thing I'd add is: Once you're getting decent, make sure to mix up transitions drills to work different "modes":

e.g. shoot target focused close/fast targets and then have to transition to far steel

-or-

shoot 7 yard open target, transition to tiny steel, transition to close/fast, then back again.

You see this in matches ALL THE TIME.

Been trying to do some close and far stuff in dry fire but Jane t done any in live fire. Not sure why.. But I know what my next live fire session will be working on!

[Luke]

Edit: added the Enos quote to Eric's post but not sure how well that ended up. I can't Internet

[Luke]

I bookmarked this thread (http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12302&p=141673) when I was researching transitions last year, posts 12 and 13 in particular really helped me understand where the movement should be (and should not be). Still got a long way to go. Recently I've found "point with your hips" to be a useful cue.

HERE IS THE QUOTE FROM ENOS




It's easy to over think this kind of stuff.
While shooting a string of fire, the ONLY time your head should ever move is if the upcoming target lies OUTSIDE your peripheral vision. This rarely happens. So, almost always, once your gun has reached your index, nothing above the waist should move as you acquire targets, EXCEPT YOUR EYES.
Then, without shooting, it's easy to figure out the rest of the mechanics. Stand upright (feet approx in shooting position), looking straight ahead, with arms normally at sides. Then, on cue, as quickly as possible, find and focus on an object on the right edge of your peripheral vision. Repeat many times while becoming sensitive to how your body, from the waist down, naturally responds to the "intent" provided by your vision. It happens to quick to think about. Working in harmony, your feet, knees, legs, and hips rotate together to find the object of desire.

I often save Word docs of common or good questions; I dug a few up and pasted them in here, so we can get 'em all in one place...
be

05.03
The key to quick transitions lies in SEEING EVERYTHING. Your gun will move quickly to the next target only if you called the shot perfectly on the target you just shot. Think about it. If you "shoot at" a target, but don't know, at the instant the shot fired, if the shot was acceptable, (meaning hit the intended target, whether it was a steel plate or the A box), your mind is functioning in doubt, not certainty. So your gun moves in a half-ass, leisurely manner to the next target. On the other hand, if see the site lift and know instantly and for certain that the shot was acceptable, your eye will locate the next target without hesitation and your pistol will follow decisively.

01.03
Transition speed is influenced by two factors:
1) IMMEDIATE, instantaneous, calling of the shot;
2) Simultaneous visual acquisition of the next target (either centrally or peripherally).
When you understand transition speed properly, there's really no "speed" involved. Moving quickly (to the next target) is the result of your INTENTION to shoot the next target as quickly as possible, and is manifested by the occurrence of the previous two conditions.

10.03
Disragarding skill in index, two factors determine split times.
1) How quickly you see the next target.
2) The precision of your call, on the pervious target.
Of the two, number two is about twice as important as number one.
Or, how you leave is more important than where you go.
Only if you know for certain as the shot is fired that it is acceptable, will you move toward the next target decisively. Hesitation, no matter how slight, always loses.

12.03


Perhaps one answer is that, when we snap our eyes to the next target* to lead the gun, we are simply snapping to brown, or to the whole plate. We aren't snapping to the center of the Alpha, or the center of the plate. We are letting our eyes get lazy. Thus, we drive the sights onto a vague area, as opposed to driving the gun to the center of the scoring area.
That's what most do, and it's a big fat huge loser. Not only will your gun not move decisively to the next target's maximum scoring area, you'll waste time finding it when you both finally commune there.

We seldom see what we need to see because we're always in a hurry. And if you didn't enjoy hurrying you’d be shooting Bullseye. So as is often true, what's most innate is a source of problems. Because of this, the real challenge is often more akin to interrupting a compulsive response. Looking like this may help unravel a problem without even looking at the specifics of the problem itself. Examine specific scenarios with the filter - In this situation, what do I typically do, and is it the most appropriate or effective response. It's a big topic.

Calling and transitioning quickly is determined by how you apply your vision.
Your focus must be flexible and constantly in motion, not stuck on any one thing.
You must see just enough of what must be seen for you to know that what you want to happen is happening as it is happening. (Holy crap, that sentence is cracking me up.)
Let go of the speedy transitions idea and experiment with how you find targets.
Find and see a plate as a clearly recognized round object - before your gun gets there – every single time.
Find the A box as clearly recognized rectangle (if you can see the scoring lines) - before the gun gets there. (For every target.) http://www.brianenos.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/wink.gif
Even when finding targets as above, keep your vision "soft," so you never lose track of the sights. (That's a tricky one.)
Learn how you need to see each upcoming target to hit the maximum scoring area as quickly as possible.
If you can see the A box – then see it. But as soon as you have "bring in the sights." You’ll find they’ll go right to the middle of what you found, if you took the time to find it.
If the targets is at 50 yards, look right at the dead center of it until your gun breaks into your peripheral vision.
Think of how the principle of calling extends beyond just the shot.
Stick with it,
be
one more thought:
Don't get sloppy and just shoot without seeing enough, and be wary of trying to see too much.
Make it as simple as possible. First you need to clearly locate the target you intend to hit; whether it's a nickel, a playing card, an A box, or an 18 x 24" steel rectangle at 7 yds. Then you need to see enough of the gun to KNOW you are hitting the target as the gun is firing. That's all there is to it.

[Mr_White]

I think I'm gonna try and hold the same focus I had on my sight and see how that feels. I think a lot of my time is spent re adjusting my eyes as I feel like they focus/refocus slowly.

I think that actually works really well most of the time, if you can do it.

[Luke]

Gabe and Les, you guys should post some times of known drills that require a big transistion to something with a no shoot on it so we have something to compare times with. How would you even track your progress without knowing other good shooters times? Is there a standard somewhere I haven't seen?

Or something like transistions you just track your progress compared to yourself?

[Talionis]

Gabe and Les already covered the major stuff about transitions. You mentioned the blake drill in your first post, which is the classic "transition training" drill. Transitions that are the same speed as your splits is in the money, but a major part of that drill is moving the targets farther apart until your transitions start to break down, then figuring out what you need to see to make it work at the new target spacing. Have you tried that?

Mostly it sounds to me like you are ok at driving the gun to your vision in the target focused range (i.e. 7 yards) but haven't trained your eyes to see the correct sight picture rapidly when it comes to something like an accelerator drill, so that's the area to put in the work.

Speaking of accelerator drills, that is one of my favorites, and is worth trying if you haven't already.

Accelerator:

3 IPSC Metric targets placed at 7, 15, and 25 yards spaced so they are laterally separated by approximately 1 yard in the shooter's vision.

Procedure: Draw and shoot each target twice, reload, and shoot each twice again.

Goal time is at or under 6 seconds, accuracy standard is almost all A's with some close C's allowed.

Lots to learn from the drill. Shoot it different ways, far to near, near to far etc. Each target requires different aiming and trigger (unless you are Gabe?), so it is useful for learning to shift between them quickly. This kind of shift is something you will see in virtually every stage at every match.

[Luke]

I'm running a ~5- 5.5second accelerator now. Because the transistion isn't wide. I'm looking to pickup speed on 20ft transistions, something where you are really moving the gun. In the accelerator you barley move the gun. All you do is refine your sights between targets.


And I've shot it enough to know I always prefer close to far, reload, close to far.


I haven't tried the Blake drill farther than 10 yards.

[GJM]

I'm running a ~5- 5.5second accelerator now. Because the transistion isn't wide. I'm looking to pickup speed on 20ft transistions, something where you are really moving the gun. In the accelerator you barley move the gun. All you do is refine your sights between targets.


And I've shot it enough to know I always prefer close to far, reload, close to far.


I haven't tried the Blake drill farther than 10 yards.

Those are way fast Accelerator runs, and if you can regularly pull those off with good hits, I suspect you already know what you need to know about transitions.

[Luke]

Is that an Enos answer? Lol

I don't see how the accelerator is a good target transistion drill. And maybe I just am using the word transistion wrong. I just want to know how to effectively go from one target to another that is a good ways away. Obviously you transistion to another target on the accelerator but it's such a small transistion it's like it's not one.

It's like I loose my gun and go slo mo on stuff that's not stacked together

[GJM]

Is that an Enos answer? Lol

I don't see how the accelerator is a good target transistion drill. And maybe I just am using the word transistion wrong. I just want to know how to effectively go from one target to another that is a good ways away. Obviously you transistion to another target on the accelerator but it's such a small transistion it's like it's not one.

It's like I loose my gun and go slo mo on stuff that's not stacked together

I think of transitions as being horizontal but also in distance like the 7, 15 and 25 of the accelerator. You might also spread the three accelerator targets more to get a challenge in both dimensions. I sure noticed when I spread them more, my times went up.

[Luke]

That had been my conclusion aswell, the farther they are the longer it takes. That's what I want to improve upon. I feel like there have been some good suggestions and ideas in here that I definitely will be trying.

[Mr_White]

Gabe and Les, you guys should post some times of known drills that require a big transistion to something with a no shoot on it so we have something to compare times with. How would you even track your progress without knowing other good shooters times? Is there a standard somewhere I haven't seen?

Or something like transistions you just track your progress compared to yourself?

These kinds of questions bring up where I am a bad USPSA shooter in that I don't know how long it takes me to do a much wider transition like you are talking about. I think I do fine at them, based on times from a drill in a Steve Anderson class and comparison to others in the class, but I couldn't really name any numbers for you.

I second the general suggestion that including mixed target difficulties is important.

It sounds like you are really talking about wide transitions, and maybe need to focus on snapping your eyes/head to the new target, generating torque in your feet/ankles and driving the gun hard, stopping it smoothly, and seeing enough sight picture for your shot.

[Luke]

i guess I'll make some sort of live fire drill and shoot it and record the times and then keep working on transistions and come back to that drill to see if what I'm doing is working or not.


So on the wide ones it's ok for your head/eyes to outrun the gun?

[Talionis]

I'm running a ~5- 5.5second accelerator now. Because the transistion isn't wide. I'm looking to pickup speed on 20ft transistions, something where you are really moving the gun. In the accelerator you barley move the gun. All you do is refine your sights between targets.


And I've shot it enough to know I always prefer close to far, reload, close to far.


I haven't tried the Blake drill farther than 10 yards.

Ok, I think I'm tracking you now. The numbers you are throwing out are sporty if you are getting good hits. Both the Blake and Accelerator do work transitions, but not in the way you are looking for (super wide) unless you modify them. The point I was making about the Blake drill earlier is that most of its usefulness in transitions actually comes from increasing the lateral distance between targets progressively while attempting to keep your splits and transitions roughly similar. If you find the targets are too close to you, or too close together for your needs, either move them out further or separate them more; or both. Similar with the Accelerator. See how wide you can push the targets on that drill while keeping overall time around 6s with good hits. Find the point where it starts breaking down, and work on things there.

Fast wide transitions don't just happen, you've got to train your vision to snap to the target and your body to follow suit. Gabe already mentioned it, but for super wide transitions (like, closer to 180) it usually makes more sense to pull the gun in and then do a sort of press-out on the next target.

[Mr_White]

It seems like there is almost a total consensus that you should lead with your eyes and follow with the gun during transitions.

I'm not trying to call HCM wrong for his experience he cited earlier; I just haven't ever heard of that working well before. It is usually reported as something that people do until they learn the better/right way to transition.

An illustrative example that I think applies fairly well is moving your mouse on a computer screen. Try moving the mouse pointer to something on the screen, without taking your eyes off the mouse pointer at any time. Then try looking at the object you are going to 'transition' the mouse pointer to, and moving the mouse pointer to catch up with your eyes. Sure seems better to me that way.

[Talionis]

So on the wide ones it's ok for your head/eyes to outrun the gun?

When I think of "outrun the gun" I picture vision arriving on target before gun/sights do, which is what should be happening pretty much always. If you think of it differently, let me know so I can get on the same page. But yes, it is perfectly ok (and desirable) for eyes/head to snap on target before body/gun gets there.

[Sal Picante]

Gabe and Les, you guys should post some times of known drills that require a big transistion to something with a no shoot on it so we have something to compare times with. How would you even track your progress without knowing other good shooters times? Is there a standard somewhere I haven't seen?

Or something like transistions you just track your progress compared to yourself?

I think the trick is finding some of the tougher USPSA classifiers and working back from various hit-factor cut offs to figure out what the timing component should be...

A few I could recommend:

Six http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/08-03.pdf

Bang and Clang http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/99-62.pdf

Front Sight http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/99-23.pdf

Front Sight 2 http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/99-24.pdf

Hillbillton Drill http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/99-28.pdf


When I practice these, for the most part, I set the steel to not fall...

[Luke]

Gabe that mouse/computer analogy is freaking brilliant!!! Makes a lot more sense now.



Talions, the head out running the gun thing is kinda hard for me to put to words. On shorter transistions even though I break the sight picture it's like the gun never leaves my vision and doesn't take much effort to get back on the sights, almost like they stay semi aligned the whole time. On longer stuff the separation is larger (between gun/eyes) and it takes a lot more time to get back on the sights. And if I just try and move the gun faster I just overshoot the target and end up coming back, or I come to a bobbly stop if that makes sense.

[Sal Picante]

Regarding wide transitions:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CV3jLFw5xA

[JHC]

I've a question that I have thought was related to transitions so I hope it's not too off topic but here goes.

I've come across USPSA shooters that value pursuing an equal split/gap of time; between their multiple shots on one target, with the time to transition and fire the next shot on a subsequent target.

I've never really grasped why that would be important considering the infinite variables of target distances, spacing, potential movement during.

What's up with that?

[Luke]

I think the trick is finding some of the tougher USPSA classifiers and working back from various hit-factor cut offs to figure out what the timing component should be...

A few I could recommend:

Six http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/08-03.pdf

Bang and Clang http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/99-62.pdf

Front Sight http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/99-23.pdf

Front Sight 2 http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/99-24.pdf

Hillbillton Drill http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/99-28.pdf


When I practice these, for the most part, I set the steel to not fall...

Thanks Les, I shot bang and clang a few weeks ago at a match 89.5% :)
I shot front sight when I first started but need to shoot it again. Unfortunately I don't have access to steel :( I can build more target stands and try and set up some of the more complex classifiers, and I could probably make some mini poppers out of a uspsa target.

Another thing I have wanted was a way to know what was "good" on transistions. I think using the classifiers is an awesome way and I never thought of that. Everything else for the most part I know times I should be shooting for so it gives me a standard to hold myself against and work towards, I didn't have anything for transistions but now I do!

[Mr_White]

Gabe that mouse/computer analogy is freaking brilliant!!! Makes a lot more sense now.

I first heard that analogy from Ben Stoeger.


Talions, the head out running the gun thing is kinda hard for me to put to words. On shorter transistions even though I break the sight picture it's like the gun never leaves my vision and doesn't take much effort to get back on the sights, almost like they stay semi aligned the whole time. On longer stuff the separation is larger (between gun/eyes) and it takes a lot more time to get back on the sights. And if I just try and move the gun faster I just overshoot the target and end up coming back, or I come to a bobbly stop if that makes sense.

That all sounds pretty normal to me. It sounds like you should focus on doing wide transitions where you drive the gun hard but still stop the gun smoothly. That's a big part of transitions too and I think is what I am hearing you say you have the issues with (overshooting target, bobbly stop.) Stopping the gun smoothly is like an 'inverse effort' - but still similar level of effort - as getting the gun moving in the first place.

[Talionis]

I've a question that I have thought was related to transitions so I hope it's not too off topic but here goes.

I've come across USPSA shooters that value pursuing an equal split/gap of time; between their multiple shots on one target, with the time to transition and fire the next shot on a subsequent target.

I've never really grasped why that would be important considering the infinite variables of target distances, spacing, potential movement during.

What's up with that?

I think what may be getting lost in translation with that "transitions should be the same as splits" concept is that it is something to pursue in certain drills, not universally. The Blake drill is a perfect example of that particular training technique, and it is used specifically to push transition speed. It's not something that you would do all the time for every target presentation, and people that try to do that all the time usually end up being really sloppy with their hits.

[Mr_White]

I've a question that I have thought was related to transitions so I hope it's not too off topic but here goes.

I've come across USPSA shooters that value pursuing an equal split/gap of time; between their multiple shots on one target, with the time to transition and fire the next shot on a subsequent target.

I've never really grasped why that would be important considering the infinite variables of target distances, spacing, potential movement during.

What's up with that?

The way I understand it, artificially forcing transitions to be the same as splits is simply a practice mechanism to push the skill of target transitions. I've definitely found it effective for that myself. It is not "the way you should shoot" a match, test, etc. If it happens and is simply a product of shooting the sights, great. Don't force it in an on-demand context though.

[HCM]

I think I'm gonna try and hold the same focus I had on my sight and see how that feels. I think a lot of my time is spent re adjusting my eyes as I feel like they focus/refocus slowly.

This ^^^ is exactly what I went to and why I went to it.

By moving my eyes to the target first I was also changing my focus from my sights to the target and then having to re-acquire focus on my sights.

In my case, one of the downsides to age induced presbyopia is it take longer for you eyes to adjust focus.

[Mr_White]

By moving my eyes to the target first I was also changing my focus from my sights to the target and then having to re-acquire focus on my sights.

In my case, one of the downsides to age induced presbyopia is it take longer for you eyes to adjust focus.

That is understandable. You could potentially stay with the 'eyes lead, gun follows' visual pattern if you were able to hold front sight focal distance throughout the shot sequence, or if you hold target focal distance throughout the shot sequence (practice target focused shooting, maybe with high-visibility front sight), or maybe reduce the time to shift focus by practicing it - I get it if vision issues don't let you do that. Those should all be possible while still leading with the eyes. It's a separate thing to keep the eyes pointed at the front sight and move the eyes and front sight together to the next target spot. That's what seems unusual to me.

I'm really not trying to change your mind or convince you that you should change, just discussing is all. :)

[robot]

I don't know what drills to use to practice transitions but I put targets at about 150-180degrees and during dry fire just try to transition as fast as I can possibly try. After 2mins of doing that I'm actually panting and breathing hard coz it's taxing. The reason I'm doing that is to get used to the speed, or basically training my ability to move my gun from one position to another as fast as I can physically can. During match mode, my body will automatically pick the fastest speed I am accustomed to and all I have to do is to call my shots. Trusting that my body will perform as the speed that I've trained it at.

does that make sense? I feel like I'm channeling Steve Anderson, but what he says is actually true. Train your speed during practice, watch your sights during match mode. Trust that your body will do the right thing speed wise.

[Mr_White]

That's a great explanation, robot!

[scw2]

Lots of helpful insights here. Any tips on how people transition high to low if your arms/gun is in the way? It's a bit hard to pick a spot to focus on the target when you can't see it. I'm assuming normally that would not be the way to shoot a stage, but just something that I ran into when testing some transitions today with vertically overlaid targets and decided to make sure I went all directions. Thanks!

[Sal Picante]

Lots of helpful insights here. Any tips on how people transition high to low if your arms/gun is in the way? It's a bit hard to pick a spot to focus on the target when you can't see it. I'm assuming normally that would not be the way to shoot a stage, but just something that I ran into when testing some transitions today with vertically overlaid targets and decided to make sure I went all directions. Thanks!

Avoid Hi-Low transitions if possible. Shoot, Low-Hi instead if you can... That said, there are times when you have to eat it, in those cases, I think aggressively driving the gun to where you "think" the target is, is key - then clean up with an actual sight picture and let it rip.

[Sal Picante]

Avoid Hi-Low transitions if possible. Shoot, Low-Hi instead if you can... That said, there are times when you have to eat it, in those cases, I think aggressively driving the gun to where you "think" the target is, is key - then clean up with an actual sight picture and let it rip.

I'll add a good drill here:

Static paper with a mini-popper on each side. Shoot the paper twice, transitions to one of the poppers, back to the paper, to the other popper.
(I set up the poppers so they don't fall)

I try to get alphas on the paper and am looking to get a transition to the steel ~.4s and no misses on the steel.

I let myself miss the steel a max of twice in practice - If I miss, then I'll add a penalty: shoot steel SHO/WHO or on a balance beam or something... I.e. something to pull myself back to the front sight.

[Luke]

What is the distance between the steel and paper? (Horizontal)

[Sal Picante]

What is the distance between the steel and paper? (Horizontal)

Paper is set at ~5' high at the shoulder... Steel is maybe 3-4' from the edge of the paper.

I mix it up, sometimes paper on the left with steel to the right, sometimes paper in the middle, sometimes paper on the right...

[Luke]

If it's not too much to ask Les, could you get some data (times) on A zone to A zone hits at different distances? Like 3,5,7,10 yards horizontally spread out but same distance from the shooter (like both targets set on the 10 yard line). If not its cool. I'm just trying to gather some times at known distances/targets from really good shooters (you!).

[Sal Picante]

If it's not too much to ask Les, could you get some data (times) on A zone to A zone hits at different distances? Like 3,5,7,10 yards horizontally spread out but same distance from the shooter (like both targets set on the 10 yard line).

I should be able to do this Friday (running dot drills and some SHO/WHO later today...)

Just to clarify, do you mean transitions on static paper targets at 3,5,7,10 apart (horizontally) at some known distances? Like 5,7,10 yards?

[Luke]

Yes please! The simpler the better!