Add another G19 or get G17

[Jeremy45]

Hello,

I have been carrying and shooting a Glock 19 almost exclusively for the past two years. I have become pretty decent with it and after reading some of DocGKR and others posts I have decided to add another 9mm Glock for redundancy/training purposes.

My question is, should I add another G19 or is the G17 close enough to serve as a duplicate? I shoot the 19 well and do not have any problems with getting pinched by the mags or anything like that, I have not shot a 17 and am wondering if there is enough advantage to move to it from the 19 and try carrying it at times as well?

Any advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Jeremy45

[VolGrad]

Advantage? I wouldn't say there's any real advantage other than you might actually find the 17 fits your hand better or you shoot it better than a 19. I believe in duplicity BUT at the same time I wouldn't count a 17 out either. You might actually find it works better for you. Just a thought.

You really can't go wrong with either though and there is definitely a strong argument to be made for exact duplicity.

[Wendell]

...there is definitely a strong argument to be made for exact duplicity.

duplicability?

[YVK]

My question is, should I add another G19 or is the G17 close enough to serve as a duplicate? I shoot the 19 well and do not have any problems with getting pinched by the mags or anything like that, I have not shot a 17 and am wondering if there is enough advantage to move to it from the 19 and try carrying it at times as well?


If you read around, you'd find that some instructors report a reproducible improvement of performance going from 19 to 17. No particular explanation, just reports.

I asked Todd the same question three weeks ago, and he said he does better with a 19; something to do with sight tracking, I am sure he'd be able to explain it better than I can.

I own a 19 only and I currently don't shoot it, but if I decided to stay with Glocks on a long run, I would definitely want to get an objective performance comparison. I may even get a 34 to amplify the differences - might make it easier to detect them.

I'd leave duplicicapability to others.

[Jeremy45]

If you read around, you'd find that some instructors report a reproducible improvement of performance going from 19 to 17. No particular explanation, just reports..

I have seen this as well. I thought I would ask the question here so that maybe I could get multiple peoples results in one thread. I have access to a 17 and a 34 but no carry gear for them, I may just buy a holster and run some drills with both as that would be simple way to tell if I shoot one better than the other.

I was mainly curious about what everyone thinks about running two different frame sizes as opposed to an exact copy.

Jeremy45

[JV_]

For me, the 19 has a different grip angle because of how my hand wraps down around the back strap.

If I wanted another gun, one that needed different a holster and mags, but was very similar to the 19 - the 17 would be a fine choice. But, if my goal was to not miss a beat in a class when my primary went down, the 19 is a better choice.

[JonInWA]

I have both guns, and have done well with both of them. The G17's increased backstrap bulge does make a discernable difference in how the gun indexes and feels compared to the G19.

There are good arguments for getting either the G17 or G19. You're already aware of the duplicacy advantage inherent to getting a G19; the G17 is probably the most proven and reliable Glock (not that the G19 isn't), and you'll get a tad more velocity out of the half-inch longer barrel. While the G17 has a longer sight plane, in actuality that really hasn't made much of a difference for me between it and my G19s in real-world use.

While I have both a G17 and a G19, I recently had a chance to get an additional Glock; I personally chose to get another Gen 3 G19, which I've posted about here in an earlier post.

Best, Jon

[ToddG]

I'd start from the other direction. What would make you choose a G17 over the G19 you already have? You've got a supply of mags that will work in the G19 (but not the G17). You have holsters that are for the G19 (but probably not the G17). Etc.

[LOKNLOD]

I'd start from the other direction. What would make you choose a G17 over the G19 you already have? You've got a supply of mags that will work in the G19 (but not the G17). You have holsters that are for the G19 (but probably not the G17). Etc.

This. I can see the argument to go the other way (have a 17 but want a 19 for better concealment) but if you've got a 19 and shoot it well, the only reason to get a 17, in my opinion, is if you find that you shoot the 17 quantifiably better. And then it still only helps if you can still conceal it, or if it's going to be for gaming. If you shoot the 17 better but never can carry it, it doesn't really help you to train with it. While many find the 17 "easier" I personally have hands that are a little too small for the full size Glocks. Despite being a bit enamored with the G34, I found I shot my G19 better in practice.

[Nephrology]

I got a Glock 17 RTF (to accompany my 19 and 26) for the purpose of gun games (IDPA/IPSC). Allows me to put less stress on the 19, same manual of arms, and most importantly the RTF *was* a big improvement over the standard grip.

Finally and most relevantly it makes winter carry MUCH easier as when wearing gloves I need the extra real estate.

If none of these things are true for you - get a Glock 19 instead. My next Glock (and likely my next centerfire pistol) will be another Glock 19.

[Jeremy45]

The only reason was on the off chance I would shoot it better. I have lots of gear for the 19 and I shoot it in IDPA consistently and do well with it, get made fun of, but that just makes me want to make master with a 19 for spite.

Thanks for all the input guys, I think I will just add another 19 and a case of ammo instead on new holsters and mags for a 17.

Jeremy45

[JonInWA]

I got a Glock 17 RTF (to accompany my 19 and 26) for the purpose of gun games (IDPA/IPSC). Allows me to put less stress on the 19, same manual of arms, and most importantly the RTF *was* a big improvement over the standard grip.

Finally and most relevantly it makes winter carry MUCH easier as when wearing gloves I need the extra real estate.

If none of these things are true for you - get a Glock 19 instead. My next Glock (and likely my next centerfire pistol) will be another Glock 19.

Nothing like belaboring the obvious, and it's probably pretty much meaningless since the pipeline's probably completely dry of any RTF2s by this point, but why didn't you simply get a RTF2 G19 (when they were available)?

I understand the G17 for IDPA/USPSA; I both my G17 and G19 for IDPA. For some reason, I seem to consistantly do better with the G17 in Classifiers, but better with the G19 in actual matches...go figure.

I'm really just giving you a hard time-as I've said before, I don't think that there's a bad decision to be made between the two guns, other than personal preference. In my case, I simply started out with a G17 as an all-purpose Glock, and than selected my others based on their ability to provide me a better match for situations/personal preferences. My original G17 is very much still in use, but I'm more likely to carry one of my G19s (not that it's particularly hard to carry/conceal a G17).

Best, Jon

[Nephrology]

Nothing like belaboring the obvious, and it's probably pretty much meaningless since the pipeline's probably completely dry of any RTF2s by this point, but why didn't you simply get a RTF2 G19 (when they were available)?

I understand the G17 for IDPA/USPSA; I both my G17 and G19 for IDPA. For some reason, I seem to consistantly do better with the G17 in Classifiers, but better with the G19 in actual matches...go figure.

I'm really just giving you a hard time-as I've said before, I don't think that there's a bad decision to be made between the two guns, other than personal preference. In my case, I simply started out with a G17 as an all-purpose Glock, and than selected my others based on their ability to provide me a better match for situations/personal preferences. My original G17 is very much still in use, but I'm more likely to carry one of my G19s (not that it's particularly hard to carry/conceal a G17).

Best, Jon

In my particular circumstances I traded a G21 with a buddy for the G17RTF, plus he threw in night sights of my choosing. I would have probably lost money if I had just put the 21 up for consignment and then looked for the 17 instead. I myself have never seen a RTF glock for sale at a gunshow or a gun store (this was last year in Portland, OR) so I thought I would jump on the RTF while I was consolidating on 9mm. my budget that he time did not accommodate .45 in serious amounts anymore.

[Nephrology]

The only reason was on the off chance I would shoot it better. I have lots of gear for the 19 and I shoot it in IDPA consistently and do well with it, get made fun of, but that just makes me want to make master with a 19 for spite.

Thanks for all the input guys, I think I will just add another 19 and a case of ammo instead on new holsters and mags for a 17.

Jeremy45

I guarantee you there is very little that the G19 can do that the G17/34 can't (mechanically speaking). You should be the one laughing at them for needing 2000 dollar open raceguns to hit their target in a decent timeframe.

[VolGrad]

duplicability?

No duplicity.



du·plic·i·ty noun \du̇-ˈpli-sə-tē also dyu̇-\
plural du·plic·i·ties

Definition of DUPLICITY
1 : contradictory doubleness of thought, speech, or action; especially : the belying of one's true intentions by deceptive words or action
2 : the quality or state of being double or twofold
3 : the technically incorrect use of two or more distinct items (as claims, charges, or defenses) in a single legal action
See duplicity defined for English-language learners »
See duplicity defined for kids »

[VolGrad]

For the record rtf2 are still readily available in used
Market. I have picked up two 19s locally in recent weeks. Cheap too.

[CK1]

For the record rtf2 are still readily available in used
Market. I have picked up two 19s locally in recent weeks. Cheap too.

+1.

Just picked up a used G19RTF2 w/ 3 mags and XS Big Dot sights for $450 (I had been looking for one for kind of a while, as they seem to be tied with the G21RTF2's as the most scarce of the RTF Glocks).

After immediately knocking off the gimmicky Big Dot sights that I loathe, installing a set of all-black Warren Sevigny Competition's and LAV's mag release, I'm already pretty much convinced the G19RTF2 is the Glock I've always wanted.

Something worth mentioning is that the 19RTF2's have less pronounced finger-grooves and an overall ever so slightly smaller grip circumference than the usual regular 3rd Gen 19's... I had always tried to really like the 19's but always ended up using the 17's as the first finger-groove under the trigger-guard on the 19's always felt too cramped for my hand/finger... I actually would tend to shoot the 19's better as the tighter grip real estate tended to lock-in my hand better on the draw and they were easier for me to index the exact same way every time, but the ridiculous and painful glock-knuckle I'd develop with them would always send me back to the tried-and-true 17. With the 19RTF2, I feel like it's the best of both worlds, I get all things I liked about the regular 19's, but the grip seems roomier and about as comfortable as the 17's do.

I mention this as like just about everyone else I tend to agree that both size guns are about tied capability-wise and that choosing either just comes down to what feels "right", just wanted to put it out there that the RTF2's tend to be a sort of "in-between-ish" option because they feel slightly different and yet the same (if that makes any sense).

In general I also tend to think of the RTF2's as the best iteration of the Glock platform and see the more aggressive grip surface and deeper, sharper fish-gill serrations (regardless of whether or not they look good) as big pluses and actual tangible improvements to the good ol' 3rd Gen's, but that's a matter of opinion...

[ffhounddog]

I just picked up a new Glock 23 rtf2 with nightsights for $400. It was such a good deal when he also gave me 3 mags to boot. I did buy a Sig P228 from him earlier that day.

I say it was a good trip a Sig P228 for $400 and a Glock 23rtf for $400 and that day I sold a Glock 22 for $500 and a A2 upper for $350. I was a happy camper.

ffh

[Jeremy45]

+1.

Something worth mentioning is that the 19RTF2's have less pronounced finger-grooves and an overall ever so slightly smaller grip circumference than the usual regular 3rd Gen 19's... I had always tried to really like the 19's but always ended up using the 17's as the first finger-groove under the trigger-guard on the 19's always felt too cramped for my hand/finger... I actually would tend to shoot the 19's better as the tighter grip real estate tended to lock-in my hand better on the draw and they were easier for me to index the exact same way every time, but the ridiculous and painful glock-knuckle I'd develop with them would always send me back to the tried-and-true 17. With the 19RTF2, I feel like it's the best of both worlds, I get all things I liked about the regular 19's, but the grip seems roomier and about as comfortable as the 17's do.

I actually undercut the trigger guard and removed the first finger groove then stippled the entire frame. It feels much better than stock and fits my hand really well. Removing that first finger groove makes a huge difference in comfort on long range days.

[VolGrad]

I too find the RTF2 G19 to be one of the best of the GLOCK offerings. I have one with gills and one without.

In fact, I'm currently looking for a RTF2 G17 to go with these little guys.

[PaiMei]

Not to derail but, I found a few rtf2 17's at my LGS. The fired casing packs were marked NOV 2010. Do these fall into the category of gen3's that Id be taking a chance with? Reason I ask is, the whole point of me getting one of these is to wait out the gen4 teething issues.

[Nephrology]

Not to derail but, I found a few rtf2 17's at my LGS. The fired casing packs were marked NOV 2010. Do these fall into the category of gen3's that Id be taking a chance with? Reason I ask is, the whole point of me getting one of these is to wait out the gen4 teething issues.

Yep. Do it. I believe it is 2011 is the problem year.

[jlw]

I have both. I shoot the 19 in GSSF and the 17 in IDPA. I shoot the 19 better at speed as I prefer the recoil impulse to that of the 17. I use the 17 in IDPA because the draws and reloads are a little easier with it.

I don't think there is a wrong answer to the question.

[CK1]

Not to derail but, I found a few rtf2 17's at my LGS. The fired casing packs were marked NOV 2010. Do these fall into the category of gen3's that Id be taking a chance with? Reason I ask is, the whole point of me getting one of these is to wait out the gen4 teething issues.

I'm on my 4th 9mm RTF2 specimen and haven't had a single gun-related malf out of any of them over LOTS of rounds through all of them (my most recent is a 19 prefix NZXxxx, January 2010, but I had a 17RTF2 that IIRC was Nov '10 too that was fine)... think they're a pretty safe bet.