Gun + Mag in one holster

[Irelander]

T-Rex Sidecar (https://trex-arms.com/store/sidecar-appendix-rig/)
KSG Velox (http://knowledgeskillgear.com/dedicated-appendix-carry-rig-the-velox.html)
M3Tactical OTP Elite (http://www.m3tacticalkydex.com/otp-elite/)
etc..

Holster designs that house the gun and mag in one package. We were discussing this over in the Glock Picture Thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16089-Glock-Picture-Thread/page24) and I thought we should start a separate thread.

So what are the virtues or lack thereof of this design? There is a an unfortunate lack of quality reviews of this design and there are a few here that have tried or are trying it now. I am intrigued by the design but hesitant to spend the money on an unproven system. I like that M3T uses RCS Eidolon clips. I like the way KSG puts the mag side clip out on the edge instead of over the mag.

What are your thoughts?

[VolGrad]

Personally I don't like any more footprint than necessary. I also am used to gun on strong side and mag on weak side. On the rare occasion I carry AIWB my magazine remains where it normally is.

[orionz06]

Pros: it's one piece.

Cons: it's one piece. Mag location is defined by the maker. Mag angle is defined by the maker. Grip tucking mechanism forces magazine outward, magazine forces grip outward. Conflicting tuck may pose comfort concerns. Most use open attachments that don't lend themselves to staying on the belt.


Comfort is subjective, I've had friends try them and love them, I've had some hate them.


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[Squirrel]

With my JM George and AIWB SPMP, I can move gun and mag around to find the sweet spot and minimize printing. Can't do that with my Sidecar.

[BobLoblaw]

I like that you can't get pinched in the wiener zone but every dude I've seen with one was unsuccessfully concealing. I'd rather deal with getting pinched once in awhile if it means I'm not printing 24/7. I haven't tried a one piece design though.

[SLG]

Clip on holsters are a bad idea, and always have been. ECQC this past weekend only reinforced that. A bunch of people were using clip ons, and I watched many of them have to fix their holsters after and during various drills. Many of them wanted to see what I was using, and we had a quick holster discussion. Mine never moved the slightest bit, and did its job well. I was using a JM Custom for the class, but others will work as well.

As for the mag pouch up front...I think that is also a bad idea. Weapons go where they need to for best access and retention. For me, that means aiwb and a CP on the left side. Support gear, like magazines, flashlights, phones, what have you, all go where they can fit and be accessed, but not with the priority given a weapon. If you don't carry any of those things, and all you have is a gun and mag, then do whatever you like. Which is what people should do anyway.

[Tamara]

For twenty years a one-piece holster/mag holder was a fairly reliable sign of non-clue-having WTFery. Just because it's kydex and IWB instead of nylon and OWB doesn't mean I can change my opinion overnight. This is my own weakness, I know.

[BillSWPA]

The place for this is not on a belt, but in a pocket.

I use a C. Rusty Sherrick "Dirty Doug" pocket holster to carry a Kel-Tec P3AT and spare magazine. Having both in one pocket is nice, since it frees up the other side front pocket for my folding knife, keys, light, and pocket change. The magazine helps break up the outline of the gun, as well as hooking onto the pocket during a draw to ensure that the gun separates from the holster reliably. The gun and magazine are held securely in place, which helps prevent either from sliding out of your pocket while sitting.

Cons include the limit on the size gun that will work (the aforementioned Kel-Tec is about as big as I think would work) as well as a significantly slowed reload due to the need to grab the magazine with the dominant hand.

For a NPE, I think there is a huge advantage to only having one pocket to worry about.

[Mirolynmonbro]

I used one for a couple months and the only con I had was that I didn't like carrying directly at 12oclock. I usually AIWB at 1-2oclock depending if I'm doing a lot of sitting or a lot of standing and walking. The sidecar design doesn't work very well if you try to move it around

[BigDaddy]

Clip on holsters are a bad idea, and always have been. ECQC this past weekend only reinforced that. A bunch of people were using clip ons, and I watched many of them have to fix their holsters after and during various drills. Many of them wanted to see what I was using, and we had a quick holster discussion. Mine never moved the slightest bit, and did its job well. I was using a JM Custom for the class, but others will work as well.

As for the mag pouch up front...I think that is also a bad idea. Weapons go where they need to for best access and retention. For me, that means aiwb and a CP on the left side. Support gear, like magazines, flashlights, phones, what have you, all go where they can fit and be accessed, but not with the priority given a weapon. If you don't carry any of those things, and all you have is a gun and mag, then do whatever you like. Which is what people should do anyway.

Are you familiar with the FIST brand of holsters ,the High Noon holsters or the Mitch Rosen Clipper? The HNH have a clip that wraps around underneath the belt and both the Rosen and FIST holsters have a little claw on the clip that also locks underneath the belt. I have had all three at one time or another and have never had one fall out or move.

[SLG]

Are you familiar with the FIST brand of holsters ,the High Noon holsters or the Mitch Rosen Clipper? The HNH have a clip that wraps around underneath the belt and both the Rosen and FIST holsters have a little claw on the clip that also locks underneath the belt. I have had all three at one time or another and have never had one fall out or move.

I'm very familiar with FIST, as well as Rosen. Never seen a high noon in person afaik. The metal clips are a lot better than the plastic ones, which is what I thought we were talking about here, given the holsters mentioned in the OP. If I had a dollar for every time someone told me they never had a problem with their clip on holsters...

Do you fight with your holster on? Roll? Spar? ECQC? De-bus vehicles under fire? Use your holster for weapon retention training a lot? I don't mean have you done it once...

[GAP]

I'm very familiar with FIST, as well as Rosen. Never seen a high noon in person afaik. The metal clips are a lot better than the plastic ones, which is what I thought we were talking about here, given the holsters mentioned in the OP. If I had a dollar for every time someone told me they never had a problem with their clip on holsters...

Do you fight with your holster on? Roll? Spar? ECQC? De-bus vehicles under fire? Use your holster for weapon retention training a lot? I don't mean have you done it once...

Totally agree.. Had a short fling with a clip but went back to my snap loops for more than a handful of reasons.

[StraitR]

Do you fight with your holster on? Roll? Spar? ECQC? De-bus vehicles under fire? Use your holster for weapon retention training a lot?

Hell no, I take it off. That's what the clips are for. :p

[Kennydale]

7996 7997
3Speed Holster (http://3speedholster.com/#oid=1003_1) Wore it for 2 1/2 years

[orionz06]

I'm very familiar with FIST, as well as Rosen. Never seen a high noon in person afaik. The metal clips are a lot better than the plastic ones, which is what I thought we were talking about here, given the holsters mentioned in the OP. If I had a dollar for every time someone told me they never had a problem with their clip on holsters...

Do you fight with your holster on? Roll? Spar? ECQC? De-bus vehicles under fire? Use your holster for weapon retention training a lot? I don't mean have you done it once...

Yes, yes, yes... Metal clips work better but aren't a replacement for a closed belt attachment that is durable. How the clips are worn can influence their performance too though.

[Hizzie]

So far I'm surprised by how it's working out. Fairly comfortable, although it has one hot spot. Gonna address that with 1/8" poron. Concealment - other than mag - is pretty good. Gonna yank off the tuck. I prefer soft loops. Maybe I'll try done Raven struts on it. Oh and yes I can still piss at a urinal in a public restroom. No hipster pants for this guy.

[JCS]

There are quite a few more I can list later when I have more time. I looked into them all before ultimately landing on the sidecar. It is my understanding that Lucas was the original creator of this style and the others simply imitate his design. I could be wrong but he has said that before. His are more expensive but I think he is doing a lot for the gun community. He's a 23 year old kid with a lot of creativity and work ethic that has turned into a 7 figure company. I will say that I don't like their customer service or return policy. There's no guarantee. If you don't like it you are stuck with it. There's no changing your order. Period end of story. I received mine and no matter how tight I adjusted the retention the gun moved in the holster. It took two emails and over a week to even get a reply. They finally replied and were very helpful. I sent it back and should have it next week. I will do a full review on it because there aren't many out there. I don't have extra money so spending $110 on a holster means I'm going to give it the review it deserves. I'm not sponsored like the guys on Instagram so I will give you guys an honest review from a normal guy.


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[breakingtime91]

There are quite a few more I can list later when I have more time. I looked into them all before ultimately landing on the sidecar. It is my understanding that Lucas was the original creator of this style and the others simply imitate his design. I could be wrong but he has said that before. His are more expensive but I think he is doing a lot for the gun community. He's a 23 year old kid with a lot of creativity and work ethic that has turned into a 7 figure company. I will say that I don't like their customer service or return policy. There's no guarantee. If you don't like it you are stuck with it. There's no changing your order. Period end of story. I received mine and no matter how tight I adjusted the retention the gun moved in the holster. It took two emails and over a week to even get a reply. They finally replied and were very helpful. I sent it back and should have it next week. I will do a full review on it because there aren't many out there. I don't have extra money so spending $110 on a holster means I'm going to give it the review it deserves. I'm not sponsored like the guys on Instagram so I will give you guys an honest review from a normal guy.


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A buddy of mine has a nomad for a g19 with an apl while it's okay, a Jm or dark star beats it any day.

[JCS]

A buddy of mine has a nomad for a g19 with an apl while it's okay, a Jm or dark star beats it any day.

I have a shaggy, jm and now a sidecar for a g19/26. I also have a jm mag carrier to make a fair comparison. I think to make a realistic comparison you should have a mag carrier as well. I plan to do that. The mag sits quite high on these one piece rigs which takes away from concealability.

[voodoo_man]

The green ops pistol class I took I ran a JM and a Safariland mag pouch upfront, iwb. It was an interesting setup, not the best for concealment but it wasn't slow.

I wouldn't run this setup on a normal basis though.

[GRV]

As for the mag pouch up front...I think that is also a bad idea. Weapons go where they need to for best access and retention. For me, that means aiwb and a CP on the left side. Support gear, like magazines, flashlights, phones, what have you, all go where they can fit and be accessed, but not with the priority given a weapon. If you don't carry any of those things, and all you have is a gun and mag, then do whatever you like. Which is what people should do anyway.

This sounds great on paper, but I have not been able to live by it....and it's not for a lack of trying.

The location the JM AIWB-SPMP sits on me, and eyemahm for that matter, is what we each independently came to the conclusion of calling "free space". It's a gap on the support side created by the AIWB holster on the strong side. Adding the mag there does not change the belt line significantly. The gap between the body and the belt will be there whether I fill it with a mag or not.

I cannot conceal a mag anywhere else on my belt, and I can conceal it very well at the position in question. So well in fact that I am on the list to get more JM pouches to try running Mr_White's 2-mag solution up front.

Ditching the mag altogether and putting the CP there instead does not allow it to conceal for me. The angle of the belt, created by the AIWB holster on the other side, causes the end of the CP grip to jut out. Moreover, even if I move the CP back a bit (which allows the mag to be there too) to help it conceal (it conceals acceptably, but not ideally), keeping it in the generic 45º position causes it to snag way too frequent on the draw. It can be avoided, but it requires a clear that is too precise for me to be comfortable with. If I'm tired, wearing a coat, or some other unideal modifier, the likelihood of snagging is too high. It's at best a square range solution, and even then it is not 100%.

I have yet to find a CP solution that I am completely happy with, independent of the mag. But I am hopeful about my current setup, which places it vertically straight up just in front of the hip between the belt and the pants, using an unorthodox mounting solution I came up with. It is very accessible with my support hand (from all body positions AFAICT so far) into a reverse grip draw, it is reachable with my strong hand although far from ideal, but most importantly it conceals excellently and does not seem to interfere with clearing my shirt at all. Notably, it won't break concealment even if I stretch my arms over my head, or take on other odd positions.



If someone can get me concealing the CP in a more canonical and forward location, easily reachable with both hands from all positions, without it introducing any potential to snag cover garments on the clear, and concealing a spare mag somewhere that a reasonable reload is possible, I will buy them a nice dinner. If you can do all that but sacrificing the mag, I'll give an exasperated sigh, concede you're right, and probably continuing running what I'm running anyway. No free dinner. However, I'll happily sit down over a drink and argue about why I'm not sold on giving up the mag, and I'll give you an open mind and ample chance to convince me otherwise. I don't feel like spelling out that argument here.

Until then, in the absence of a perfect solution, I have to go with what works best and continue to experiment. I'm eager to pressure test my current CP location at ECQC.

If it was just me, I'd think I was being dense about something, but Mr_White runs similar clothing, similar body type, and similar gear and he has experienced similar problems, if I recall correctly.


ETA: Actually, my current CP location is quite easy to draw from strong hand too if I am willing to accept an edge-out reverse grip. I had a edge-in forward grip in mind, per the CP design, which is doable but tough. The setup is really intended for me to do a support hand RGEI.

[BigDaddy]

I'm very familiar with FIST, as well as Rosen. Never seen a high noon in person afaik. The metal clips are a lot better than the plastic ones, which is what I thought we were talking about here, given the holsters mentioned in the OP. If I had a dollar for every time someone told me they never had a problem with their clip on holsters...

Do you fight with your holster on? Roll? Spar? ECQC? De-bus vehicles under fire? Use your holster for weapon retention training a lot? I don't mean have you done it once...

Yes, to some of your questions. I use the Rosen Clipper and yes, I had been in more than one fight with it. It never moved or fell out. Actually, I'd be more worried about the gun falling out than I would the entire rig. But neither has happened. Roll? Not really, just your typical street fight only inside buildings. Debus,lol? No.ECQC? No. And no, I do not do weapon retention training with it. Not with this rig anyway. I carry it AIWB so I'm not too worried about that.
I understand your point on clip holsters and agree for the most part. I would only use the brands I mentioned because of the way they design their clips, either with that little claw or the wrap around the belt stylestyle. I own and use holsters from JM, CCC and Fricke and Mark Garrity. They are all fine holsters. But IMHO so is the Clipper. I'm very happy with it and have no concerns at all with it.

[23JAZ]

https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7996&stc=1 https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7997&stc=1
3Speed Holster (http://3speedholster.com/#oid=1003_1) Wore it for 2 1/2 years
Jesus is that a girdle with a holster attached!? Seriously though that thing is huge.

[JCS]

This sounds great on paper, but I have not been able to live by it....and it's not for a lack of trying.

The location the JM AIWB-SPMP sits on me, and eyemahm for that matter, is what we each independently came to the conclusion of calling "free space". It's a gap on the support side created by the AIWB holster on the strong side. Adding the mag there does not change the belt line significantly. The gap between the body and the belt will be there whether I fill it with a mag or not.

I cannot conceal a mag anywhere else on my belt, and I can conceal it very well at the position in question. So well in fact that I am on the list to get more JM pouches to try running Mr_White's 2-mag solution up front.

Ditching the mag altogether and putting the CP there instead does not allow it to conceal for me. The angle of the belt, created by the AIWB holster on the other side, causes the end of the CP grip to jut out. Moreover, even if I move the CP back a bit (which allows the mag to be there too) to help it conceal (it conceals acceptably, but not ideally), keeping it in the generic 45º position causes it to snag way too frequent on the draw. It can be avoided, but it requires a clear that is too precise for me to be comfortable with. If I'm tired, wearing a coat, or some other unideal modifier, the likelihood of snagging is too high. It's at best a square range solution, and even then it is not 100%.

I have yet to find a CP solution that I am completely happy with, independent of the mag. But I am hopeful about my current setup, which places it vertically straight up just in front of the hip between the belt and the pants, using an unorthodox mounting solution I came up with. It is very accessible with my support hand (from all body positions AFAICT so far) into a reverse grip draw, it is reachable with my strong hand although far from ideal, but most importantly it conceals excellently and does not seem to interfere with clearing my shirt at all. Notably, it won't break concealment even if I stretch my arms over my head, or take on other odd positions.



If someone can get me concealing the CP in a more canonical and forward location, easily reachable with both hands from all positions, without it introducing any potential to snag cover garments on the clear, and concealing a spare mag somewhere that a reasonable reload is possible, I will buy them a nice dinner. If you can do all that but sacrificing the mag, I'll give an exasperated sigh, concede you're right, and probably continuing running what I'm running anyway. No free dinner. However, I'll happily sit down over a drink and argue about why I'm not sold on giving up the mag, and I'll give you an open mind and ample chance to convince me otherwise. I don't feel like spelling out that argument here.

Until then, in the absence of a perfect solution, I have to go with what works best and continue to experiment. I'm eager to pressure test my current CP location at ECQC.

If it was just me, I'd think I was being dense about something, but Mr_White runs similar clothing, similar body type, and similar gear and he has experienced similar problems, if I recall correctly.


ETA: Actually, my current CP location is quite easy to draw from strong hand too if I am willing to accept an edge-out reverse grip. I had a edge-in forward grip in mind, per the CP design, which is doable but tough. The setup is really intended for me to do a support hand RGEI.

Sorry for asking. But what is cp?!


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[Tamara]

Sorry for asking. But what is cp?!

Clinch Pick.

[JPedersen]

For twenty years a one-piece holster/mag holder was a fairly reliable sign of non-clue-having WTFery. Just because it's kydex and IWB instead of nylon and OWB doesn't mean I can change my opinion overnight. This is my own weakness, I know.

This made me laugh out loud! I don't know how I missed it the first time I read through this. Well done... So good[emoji23]


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[Wondering Beard]

Sorry for asking. But what is cp?!


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Photo to supplement Tam:

https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10357170_930099560365074_8982847524839006476_n.jpg ?oh=a8ac1739ec33b53bc1b8a4fa57199d5d&oe=57D03465

[Hizzie]

Sorry for asking. But what is cp?!


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I am not yet sold on the combo holster concept but it was worth trying. I have since acquired a better belt for this role.

8373

[JCS]

Photo to supplement Tam:

https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10357170_930099560365074_8982847524839006476_n.jpg ?oh=a8ac1739ec33b53bc1b8a4fa57199d5d&oe=57D03465

I want one. Why aren't they for sale anymore?


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[Jackdog]

I want one. Why aren't they for sale anymore?


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According to S'narc 600 CPs are on their way to TAD.

[JCS]

According to S'narc 600 CPs are on their way to TAD.

Sweet!

Back to the original topic. I finally got my sidecar in after the original debacle. It's fixed now and I was ready to hate this thing. I had buyers remorse when I got it the first time and it had all the issues. After sending it back they reshaped it and this thing rides much better now. My first go around it printed like I had stuffed a phone book in my pants. I'm shocked at how much better it conceals now. I've only had it 5 days so I have a long way to go. I'm still not sold on it. I'll keep you updated.


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[orionz06]

I want one. Why aren't they for sale anymore?


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According to S'narc 600 CPs are on their way to TAD.

Correct on the TAD comment, otherwise Ban Tang makes the blade posted. I have a few of his CP's and several more other blades, second to none. Ban has also taken quite a few classes from Craig and gets it, so to speak. I'd encourage anyone who wanted a CP to take a look at what he has to offer.

[Wondering Beard]

Correct on the TAD comment, otherwise Ban Tang makes the blade posted. I have a few of his CP's and several more other blades, second to none. Ban has also taken quite a few classes from Craig and gets it, so to speak. I'd encourage anyone who wanted a CP to take a look at what he has to offer.

I was going to answer firefighterguy directly but orionz06 beat me to it.

I have a double edged CP from Ban as well as a TAD CP (modified by Joe Watson); both are great knives (Ban's tend to have a chisel grind but one can ask for something else) but I just love the cord wrap that Ban does and it's actually lighter in my hands than the TAD CP.