Kids and toy guns

[JAD]

I have a five year old. We're just starting to talk about guns, though he has to get a lot better at following directions before we get to the range.

I am curious about how parents on the forum handle the topic of toy guns of all sorts.

Do you let your kids have them? I have had the thought that this trivializes guns.

If you permit them, do you enforce the safety rules with them, and to what degree?

I had toy guns and played with them constantly. I had no idea of the rules. I was able to correct a lot of bad habits when I got serious as an adult, but I started from an unfortunate place.

[JHC]

I had toy guns; realistic "Johnny Lightning" series too (1960's). Very authentic albeit plastic. Playing "war" was nearly a full time vocation. I was not introduced to shooting air rifles until about 8. Rimfires a couple years later. There was never a hint of confusion re safety - toy vs real for my brother and I. We had a superb teacher father.

OTOH I have no experience with the modern trend to start firearms shooting vastly earlier with children - like 4 and 5. Personally, I would not. But I'd buy them the crappy toy guns such as they are today. ;)

[okie john]

My son had a few toy guns, but I also made sure that he knew about real ones, which helped reduce his interest in toy ones. The rule was that if he wanted to see any of my guns, then all he had to do was ask and I'd break them out, which I did. That led to long conversations about the 4 Rules, and he got jacked up forcefully on the spot if he broke any of them, even if it was with an orange plastic dart gun.

This paid off in spades when his mother (my liberal ex-wife) pointed to a picture in the paper of then-Senator Obama shooting trap and asked me what I thought about it. I turned to my kid and asked him the same question. He said, "Well, he has his finger on the trigger but his sights aren't on the target. He's also not wearing eye protection or earmuffs."

Winning never felt so good.


Okie John

[GuanoLoco]

Kids will play war with a worn broom for a rifle and a dirt clod for a grenade. You can take away the toy guns but you can't take away their imagination.

[texasaggie2005]

My son had a few toy guns, but I also made sure that he knew about real ones, which helped reduce his interest in toy ones. The rule was that if he wanted to see any of my guns, then all he had to do was ask and I'd break them out, which I did. That led to long conversations about the 4 Rules, and he got jacked up forcefully on the spot if he broke any of them, even if it was with an orange plastic dart gun.

This paid off in spades when his mother (my liberal ex-wife) pointed to a picture in the paper of then-Senator Obama shooting trap and asked me what I thought about it. I turned to my kid and asked him the same question. He said, "Well, he has his finger on the trigger but his sights aren't on the target. He's also not wearing eye protection or earmuffs."

Winning never felt so good.


Okie John

This is how we handle it, but we don't have any toy guns. My kids show no interest in them, besides maybe a water pistol. My oldest daughter (6yr), is generally ambivalent about guns, but she'll watch and help me tinker / clean mine. At my folks house, she has her own .22 which she can shoot anytime she asks. Just watching me and having access to her own, totally fulfills any desire she has. My second daughter (3yr) mimics her older sister somewhat, but appears even less interested. I have high hopes for my 6m old son, I need a shooting buddy.

[Luke]

With my daughter we had ZERO toy guns because I believe there is no such thing. Early this year she got a orange fake "toy" gun with a cheesy holster (I didn't buy it..) and I started working with her. She sees me dry fire daily and live fire a lot. Her favorite thing to do is uprange surrender starts, she loves the turn part lol. We treat it like a real gun and I stress saftey, especially muzzle and finger control. She's still to young to under stand a bullet comes out of there and it will kill you, she knows it will but I don't thing she understands truly. We work on dry firing at the targets I have hanging on the wall and we always check to make sure behind the wall is clear. I also make her walk me through the proper steps to verify a pistol is empty and clear (safe muzzle and finger, slide back, chamber check and make sure no mag is inserted). She is very good about following rules and directions.

She is 4.


My son... Wow. Everything is a gun, his hand his crackers his cars his stuffed animals the tv remote.. EVERYTHING will be us d as a gun and he goes "pow pow". It's the cutest thing ever. The boy LOVES guns. Can't wait till he gets older. He is 16 months

[JHC]

I mis spoke re "Lightning". It would have been Johnny Eagle.


Awesome video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxFTcKxAilc

Check out how the M14 functions much like some reports of the actual rifle in VN. ;)

[warpedcamshaft]

With my daughter we had ZERO toy guns because I believe there is no such thing.

That's some high-speed shit bro... ;)

"Play like you fight... ???"

I had tons of toy/cap guns as a child.

Things changed when I got a pellet rifle. My father taught me very well and there was a clear distinction between toy and real guns.

[Peally]

Your kid will want to play soldier, just make sure there aren't any real ones around and they know the difference.

My childhood would have been boring as hell without toy swords and guns.

[Luke]

That's some high-speed shit bro... ;)

"Play like you fight... ???"

I had tons of toy/cap guns as a child.

Things changed when I got a pellet rifle. My father taught me very well and there was a clear distinction between toy and real guns.



Your always way over protective on the first :)

I was just so worried she would get Ahold of a gun and make it go bang. I couldn't live with myself if that happened. But it really is crazy the difference between my son and daughter. When she was born we decided we weren't going to force anything on her toy wise, if she wanted to play GI joes and eat dirt, awesome, if she wants to play dress up and nothing but Barbie, awesome. Same with my son. Both have gravitated to what you would normally associate with little boys and girls, it's crazy. My son will stop what he's doing and hardcore gaze at a hot rod or loud car as it goes by, does my heart good :)

My daughter had already shot her first real gun (22/45) and we bought her a Daisy red rider just like I had as a child. She's not as much into shooting the rifle as she is handguns, but she's not getting a handgun for a while.


I have changed a lot of my toy gun view from when my daughter was born and now. The toy gun she practices with was bought for her when she was a baby by a family member.. I never even let her see it lol. I just want them to respect guns and be safe.

[warpedcamshaft]

Always carry a spare cap roll! Sure statistically you will never need more than one cap roll, but in case of a mis-feed you have a spare.

2 cap guns are 1, 1 cap gun is none.

Low capacity 8 shot cap guns are inferior to the high capacity roll-fed type.

[ubervic]

That's some high-speed shit bro... ;)

"Play like you fight... ???"

I had tons of toy/cap guns as a child.

Things changed when I got a pellet rifle. My father taught me very well and there was a clear distinction between toy and real guns.

I was born in the mid-'60s and begged my folks for a toy pistol when I was around 6. My mother was very apprehensive, but my father was okay with it, so I got one. At that age, to my way of thinking, a toy is absolutely a toy---and I played Western Cowboy with it. The toy itself presented no dangers, and I had no desire to threaten or harm anyone or anything with it; it was for make-believe only.

Once I reached the age of roughly 9 years, my older brother was given a pellet rifle and I was allowed to fire it after getting careful instruction from him and my father, and I never handled or fired it without very close supervision by one or both.

At the age of 13, I signed up for the 'Hunter Safety' course which was offered at my public school as an after-school, once a week program. It was there that I was taught and made to memorize and hold high the 4 Rules and many other aspects of safe, responsible gun-handling.

My background need not be viewed as the only way, but it sure has worked well for me in terms of my progressing from one age and a certain level of responsibility & access to the next, and the next.

[nycnoob]

But it really is crazy the difference between my son and daughter.



If you are interested, this is a really great series about current research on this topic.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVaTc15plVs&list=PLaJtMuDnR5KLwrt4z1O8tKmHWmUm3nObV&index=1

[BehindBlueI's]

I had toy guns, cap guns, water guns, etc as a kid. Every boy my age did. I've never once treated a real gun as a toy. My son has toy guns, mostly the nerf foam dart ones. He's also for a bb gun and a .22. He never mistreats the bb gun or .22 because he thought it was a nerf gun or "habituation" or whatever.

[Dave J]

I have two boys, ages 6 & 8. I wrestled with the same topic, and eventually realized that trying to stop kids from playing with gun-like toys was an exercise in futility.

Squirt guns, cap guns, nerf guns, etc., they can use however they want with minimal supervision. They've figured out on their own that eye pro is worth having with nerf guns. We do have a rule that toys used outside must obviously look like toys, and not resemble real guns.

"Real gun rules" are in effect for Airsoft and up. They each have an airsoft pistol that I maintain control of, and are allowed to use under close supervision, with eye pro, designated range area, etc. I use this as my opportunity to try and ingrain good gun handling rules, along with the Eddie Eagle type talking points. Following the rules correctly earns them a chance to use my SIRT or handle real guns if they want.

I don't claim any special expertise on the subject, but so far, the above seems to be working really well.

[Kiniffy]

I turn 33 in 9 days.... so my toy guns were plastic crap and we ran all over my small town playing Cowboys and Indians, for as long as i remember dad and grandpa's real guns were way off limits kept out of reach, and i could look and touch anytime i asked, 6 or 7 dad pulled out his red ryder bb gun and the 4 rules started, 9ish dad or grandpa and i would shoot gophers, fully supervised with them in a hover ready to "corect" any issues. got a winchester 22 for xmass when i was 11[gpa couldnt wait till my 12th b-day. From there i was turned loose on the farm with 2 bricks of shells.... i also firmly understood that their was no oops, or im sorry when i pulled the trigger.

[LOKNLOD]

Vilifying toy guns is largely a commie plot to pussify our youth and prevent us from getting them liking guns prior to receiving counter indoctrination in the public education camps.

[SJC3081]

Vilifying toy guns is largely a commie plot to pussify our youth and prevent us from getting them liking guns prior to receiving counter indoctrination in the public education camps.

Bingo

[Dagga Boy]

Vilifying toy guns is largely a commie plot to pussify our youth and prevent us from getting them liking guns prior to receiving counter indoctrination in the public education camps.

There was a time I would have agreed. Not today. When I was a kid, I was the king of all things toy guns, and anything related to guns. I also knew jack crap about gun safety other than "don't touch them" regarding the guns in the house. At about age ten, I was touching whenever I was left alone to my own devices. Luckily, we never had loaded guns around and Ammo was stored separately.
Fast forward to my kid. My home has loaded guns and guns in general all over the place. No toy guns with my kid because it was emphasized very early that she was not to touch them, she was indoctrinated that they were dangerous and she could touch whatever she was interested in with supervision and simply had to ask to remove the curiosity. It was to the point when I was working on an article and had seven AR's laying on the floor in a row. My kid was playing hop scotch over them and emphasizing not touching them. She was constantly drilled on the four basic safety rules as well right to to her first time on the range and got her own guns when she was eight (literally the week after my wife died as we disagreed when to start her shooting).
We had an incident at a friends house where a little boy was pointing his very realistic toy gun at my daughter...to which she was uncomfortable. She was fine with squirt guns and obvious plastic colorful things and liked them herself, but we are talking a metal highly real appearing replica gun. I asked the kids mom to have him stop pointing it at my kid as guns were not toys at my house. Mom was a rabid anti gun person and was horrified that we had real guns. I lit her like a Christmas tree as it was kids like hers who did not respect guns who tended to do stupid things with them because they have been allowed to treat them as toys that cannot hurt anyone. This is my problem with how guns are treated. There is a difference today and when I was a kid. There are so many insanely good video games, action figures and other stuff that would have made me a happy kid. We also didn't have things like airsoft and guns that were full size total replicas. Our toy guns really looked like toys. Many today do not.
I am very good with my decision to have no realistic toys guns in the house. We had plenty of nerd dart guns and water pistols to allow for shooting at each other without using something that could cause an issue with a real gun.

[JAD]

where a little boy was pointing his very realistic toy gun at my daughter.

Based on this post I think I'll have my boy start working on disarms.

[SeriousStudent]

Based on this post I think I'll have my boy start working on disarms.

And in the afternoon, we'll be working on disarms. :cool:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19547-Unthinkable-William-Aprill-Dallas-Ft-Worth-07-09-16

[Dagga Boy]

Based on this post I think I'll have my boy start working on disarms.

She was in her "beating up boy bully's" phase. That was actually what the plan was if the kid pointed his gun at her again after talking to the mom....take it away and give him a replica beating.

[BehindBlueI's]

Mom was a rabid anti gun person and was horrified that we had real guns. I lit her like a Christmas tree as it was kids like hers who did not respect guns who tended to do stupid things with them because they have been allowed to treat them as toys that cannot hurt anyone.

There's the problem, not toy guns. Say the kid and never touched a toy gun and finds a real gun. Different outcome? No, television and video game have already taught him how a gun works. Without basic safety instruction that kid is an accident waiting to happen regardless of access to toy guns or not. Kids will use sticks as toy guns if that's all they have access to. Or at least they used to until they got put in bubble wrap play pens and told violence never solved anything.

I think you're older than me, but some of my toy guns looked damn real. None of this orange tip stuff existed. I mean, there were Space Blasters that sparked when you pulled the trigger and what not, but there were plenty that were not obviously toys. We played Cowboys and Indians, Cops n Robbers, and "Army", all the time and most of us were hunting with real guns sometime in middle school. The only idiots who hurt themselves were the boys with bb guns. Toy guns were treated like the toys they were and real guns were treated like guns, but some of the...less bright youths of the day used to shoot bb guns at each other at a "safe distance". I'd say there's plenty of middle aged hillbillies with a bb lodged in a thigh to this day... The only real projectile guns I was allowed to shoot at other people were those rubber band guns. That was some realistic simunition training, as getting hit caught your attention. :D

[LOKNLOD]

We also didn't have things like airsoft and guns that were full size total replicas. Our toy guns really looked like toys. Many today do not.
I am very good with my decision to have no realistic toys guns in the house. We had plenty of nerd dart guns and water pistols to allow for shooting at each other without using something that could cause an issue with a real gun.

Toy guns took a divergent path a long time ago. I'm too young to have the really cool "realistic" toy guns (like the old Tommy gun toys often fondly alluded to, which were advertised for use as "realistic action"), rather, I had BRIGHTLY colored toy guns. They all got rattle-canned at my house growing up (tip and all) because it's hard to set up an ambush in the woods with a neon yellow AK. I also lived in the country and not running around town where I might be mistaken for a kid with a real gun. Had we lived in a Cali suburb, I probably couldn't have gotten away with that.

I had moved on to real guns by the time the toy guns got really retarded, and stopped even resembling real guns in shape. I had complete unfettered access to my .22 & ammo in my room starting in early middle school. I got a new packed in cosmoline SKS for being 8th grade valedictorian.

Since then, airsoft stuff has come on the scene, and it's a whole different world. Wow would I have killed (poor choice of words...) to have that cool stuff back way back when. Still though, I don't really think of airsoft replicas and stuff in the same light as "toy guns"... Yes, they are, I suppose, "toys", but if I were handing them to my kids today they'd be handled more like BB guns.

I think the most important thing to note is not every kid is the same, and parents have to, you know, be parents. Perhaps I was the exception in that I could have that stuff and be trusted. I had one or two friends who probably could as well. I had other friends who we put my stuff away before they came over because they were the kind of kids that would fiddle-fuck with it, and both I and my parents recognized that (and they weren't shy about ensuring I enforced that). In fact, one in particular, later - high school - shot his sister in the face with a .22 by accident (she was fine) because despite some amazing artistic talent he had the common sense God gave a dirt clod (largely due to piss poor parenting, particularly by the father).

Engaged parenting - just like applied in nyeti's example - is key, and it can be a lot of work. Too many folks want to let the village help raise their kid, and then wonder why their kid acts like the village idiot.

[farscott]

While I had some toy guns, my parents drew the line at BB guns. I starting shooting .22 LR rifles and pistols at age six under adult supervision. At that time, the toy guns went away. As I got older, I was allowed to shoot .22 handguns and rifles on my own. I even got to take my Winchester M52 to school to shoot on the school rifle team. Imagine that happening today.

With my daughter, no toy guns, and my wife and I started her off with .22 at age nine. She shoots to this day. A few harsh words from Dad about the safety rules was about all it took for her to internalize them. It did take some more reinforcement with muzzle discipline. Then she asked to go deer hunting, and she ended up doing Hunter Safety. That was actually a good thing as people other than Mom and Dad talked about safety.

[LOKNLOD]

I'd say there's plenty of middle aged hillbillies with a bb lodged in a thigh to this day...

When dad was little, they used to have BB gun fights all the time, and he has a story about one of his buddies getting popped in the eye region, going home and not telling his parents, and the BB coming out during football practice a couple days later.

[ford.304]

My dad got absolutely destroyed in a BB gun fight as a kid, and as a result I was never allowed to have one. He similarly broke his arm on a zipline, and then didn't let me have one of those, either :P

My big rule with guns is that she can't have a toy gun until she's proven she knows the difference between a toy gun and a real gun, and that she can follow the "don't touch, find an adult" rule with real guns. I think she's close... been thinking about leaving an unloaded airsoft on the kitchen table to test her. Can't decide if that feels too underhanded.

After that... I think I like the idea of following simunition style rules for toy guns. Treat it like a real firearm, but people you're playing with can count as things you want to "destroy." People who aren't playing are not.

[Dagga Boy]

When dad was little, they used to have BB gun fights all the time, and he has a story about one of his buddies getting popped in the eye region, going home and not telling his parents, and the BB coming out during football practice a couple days later.

Boys and BB guns are always a bad mixture. Yeah...I had a pellet in my arm for a long time. The key to much of this is that while we survived with lap belts in cars.....I am glad I am driving my kid in a rolling airbag today.

[Kennydale]

I'm working on my 3 year old grandson. We daycare him. He knows I carry a "BOOM BOOM GUN". He knows not to purposely touch it, because it can be dangerous. He knows if he ever sees a gun he is to tell an adult and not touch it. He also likes to go through my catalogs (Sig is his favorite) and that I will teach him about guns more when he is older. We do play with the most goofy looking water guns, and he knows the difference between them and PAPA's gun.

[Luke]

My dad got absolutely destroyed in a BB gun fight as a kid, and as a result I was never allowed to have one. He similarly broke his arm on a zipline, and then didn't let me have one of those, either :P

My big rule with guns is that she can't have a toy gun until she's proven she knows the difference between a toy gun and a real gun, and that she can follow the "don't touch, find an adult" rule with real guns. I think she's close... been thinking about leaving an unloaded airsoft on the kitchen table to test her. Can't decide if that feels too underhanded.

After that... I think I like the idea of following simunition style rules for toy guns. Treat it like a real firearm, but people you're playing with can count as things you want to "destroy." People who aren't playing are not.

Not real sure how much it matters, because it only takes one time to not so right.. But I left (a unloaded) gun out on purpose to see what she would do without me, she ran and got me which I was very happy with.

[gkieser92]

I think it is worth noting that when I got my graduate training in play therapy, it was recommended that we keep a toy gun in the toys available to children in therapy. It helps children practice handling power imbalances and managing complex situations with binary solutions. If it can help a child heal from trauma, it can't be all bad.

[-ad-]

No problems with toy guns here but I have taken the opportunity to use it as a learning curve. For the most part - toy guns start off being treated just like real guns first. Trigger discipline, mussel direction, the works. This started at kinder. Guns that shot things I initially setup targets for - not people.

So at a young age, there's already awareness of firearm discipline - even though they're with toys.

Of course, I don't want to stop children from having fun, or miss out on being a kid - so as there's growth in awareness and understanding I've started to introduce times of exceptions where they can be treated like toys and play cops n robbers, etc - a window that has a definitive start and end to it. Then it's back to standard firearm discipline. Then as more awareness and understanding occurs I give more freedom and responsibility until they can decide fully for themselves.

But I figure to start off on the conservative side and then loosen the reins as I see responsibility and awareness is a better tactic than starting off completely liberal and then trying to tighten the reins.

Over the top? Maybe - but I've heard too many stories of kids who find & pick up real guns and treat them like toys with disastrous consequences. Whether that's because guns were treated as toys before they were treated as real I don't know, but seeing children learn to respect guns first - and then use them as toys (toy ones) second when they have a greater understanding seems to have worked well so far.

Plus it seems kids enjoy it. Whether it's the opportunity and expectation to emulate adults instead of just been kids, I don't know - but at a very young age it's nice to see discipline that surpasses some adults completely lack which makes me proud.

Of course I understand what works for someone may not work for someone else. I think every situation needs to be assessed on it's own merits - but this approach seems to have borne good fruit so far for me.

[secondstoryguy]

I've let my little one play with them since birth. He was making guns out of random objects anyway so I figured why not. I think toy guns can not only demystify guns as a whole they allow parents to start dialog about gun safety and the moral responsibilities that come along with firearms ownership.

I don't buy standard toy guns most of the time. When he wants a gun I've bought a few of the Blackhawk brand orange plastic training pistols. They hold up better(they are not lawnmower proof), are completely orange(not just the tip), and seem to last longer than the standard POS plastic toy guns. I also enjoy playing with them when he leaves them around. His latest purchase was an ASP red-gun Taser that I got off the sale rack at GTs for $10.

At 8 years old, my son already has better weapons handling skills that some police officers I've seen. He instinctively keeps his fingers off the trigger and moves the muzzle around people. His shooting form is also good as I coach him every time he's playing around the house with Nerf or play guns.

[jc000]

Toy guns were strictly verboten when I was a little guy. Look where that got me.

My boys (5 + 8) have tons of toy guns, mostly Nerf guns. They also have an air rifle and a .22 bolt action. I used to be super hardcore about handling the Nerf guns like real firearms and realized that probably confuses more than helps things. They do exercise good trigger discipline.

Without meaning to sound cavalier, I have guns around the house and it's a non-issue in my opinion. The kids are about as interested in them as they are in our kitchen knives. My wife homeschools them and I work out of my house (for the most part) so there isn't a ton of unsupervised activity happening. When visitors come over I tighten up where things are stored, for sure.

My daughter is a seabee and occasionally gets to play with a M16, but I doubt that happens without supervision!

[BJXDS]

Lots of interesting comments/opinions.

Do you let your kids have them? YES I have had the thought that this trivializes guns. Not a concern for me.

If you permit them, do you enforce the safety rules with them, and to what degree? No traditional safety rules, in the sense I did not expect the kids to handle/carry them like they were real.

I totally understand your issues and concerns. But the reason they are playing with toy guns or any toys for that matter is because they are kids, and toys are fun to play with, even for us old folks. BUT the issue is really not the toy gun but how you as a parent control, supervise and teach them how to properly think and act. They are kids with very active imaginations, beyond belief at times.

People tend to get caught up with a kid running around with toy weapons, playing cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians and Army. For those of you that are older 50+, how many times did you play Army/cowboys and Indians/Cops and Robbers when you were a kid? How many models and other shit did you blow up with firecrackers How many imaginary robbers, Japanese, and Germans did you kill? When your toy gun broke how many times did you use a stick or your finger for a gun?

When its a toy gun " WE " tend to get freaked out, over complicate/over think all the possible bad outcomes. BUT will sit there and watch that same kid crash toy cars or jump their bike over a ramp and think NOTHING of it.

I don't think a kid with a toy gun is going to turn out to be a killer, any more than a boy that looks up a Barbie doll skirt is going to be a rapist, or a kids that crashes toy cars is going to be a reckless driver.

Now I would NOT allow my kid to run around with a toy gun and talk about, " Ima pop a cap in yo punk ass" or pretend to be a suicide bomber. If the kid is running around with a toy gun playing cops and robbers or on an imaginary big game safari, I would not worry about it. If they were running around pretending to rob and carjack people, that may be a clue to a serious behavioral issue that needs to be addressed.

Ultimately, it is our responsibility as parents to teach our kids the difference between right and wrong, and fantasy and reality. Every child matures at a different rate, we as responsible adult parents need to constantly monitor that and determine when they are ready to accept the responsibility of more adult situations.

We should make absolutely sure no child has unsupervised access to any firearm with out direct responsible adult supervision! BUT do we take the same precaution with butcher knifes, scissors, axes, chain saws, lawn mowers, car keys??

[Duelist]

I was not allowed toy guns or BB guns as a child, and had to wait what seemed an unreasonably long time to get to learn to shoot real ones. I was fascinated by them, and wanted to look at them, handle them, and shoot them as much as possible. Still do the same today.

My kids came along, and I and my wife decided no toy guns. That morphed to water guns as okay, and then whacky looking Nerf dart guns as okay. Both have had BB guns, and real ones, and started shooting real ones at a very young age. Both like to go shoot once in a while, are very safe around them, but are not nearly as obsessed with them as the old man. Probably good for their future finances.