Magazines -- how are they designed?

[GJM]

The name of the thread says it all. How do different firearms manufacturers figure out what to do about magazines? Do they design the pistol around the magazine, the magazine to fit the pistol, or some of both. Do they engineer the magazine as part of the design, outsource design to outside vendors, and same questions for who manufactures it.

[okie john]

No idea, but good magazine design is so critical that guys named Jorgensen, Nagant, and Schönauer got their names added to those of the rifle designers because of their work.

It's also interesting that the magazines for nearly all of the 80's vintage wonder-nines were based heavily on Saive's BHP magazine design.


Okie John

[BillSWPA]

I would think that both need to be designed simultaneously. For example, the length and release point of the feed lips needs to take into account the entire feed path. An earlier release point allows the cartridge to feed within a shorter feed path but also increases the likelihood of a double feed. Longer feed lips might not allow the bullet to angle up towards the chamber properly once it hits the feed ramp. The spring needs to be strong enough to push the top cartridge in front of the slide during the short interval when the slide is out of the way of the magaaine, but not so strong that the magazine cannot be loaded or to create too much friction between the cartridge and feed lips. The requirements of the magazine are going to determine some critical specifications within the pistol, such as slide travel distance, feed ramp specifications, feed path length (which affects overall length), etc.

[1slow]

Bill Reihl is needed on this. I seem to remember him saying one reason HK pistols were so reliable because HK was the best magazine maker.

[StraitR]

Given that magazines, second only to ammunition, are absolutely critical to the function of a pistol I would guess that they're designed in parallel. Purely conjecture, but I'd say definitely not an afterthought by anyone serious about producing quality products.

[GJM]

So, does HK for example, have magazine engineers that focus exclusively on magazines, or does the same person designing the pistol figure out the magazine?

[StraitR]

So, does HK for example, have magazine engineers that focus exclusively on magazines, or does the same person designing the pistol figure out the magazine?

No idea, but if I were guessing (again) I'd say it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer based on corporate design strategies/philosophies. Some companies may have one team that does it all while others compartmentalize. I'm not an engineer, just speculating. Maybe Default.mp3 has better insight here.

[OlongJohnson]

Might ask Sig. They seem to be still working on it with the MPX .40...

[El Viajero]

I suspect HK designs the gun around the magazine in part, or did when it came to the VP9 and P2000 series. Essentially get an ergonomic grip and then stick the magazine in the middle and add the rest.

[Dagga Boy]

I also "think" HK manufacturers their own magazines in house and do not contract them.

[HCM]

I think Bruce Gray might have some insight on this.

[Handy]

I have thought a lot about this before, especially after I starting buying HKs. I also think Beretta makes their own mags, and are very good ones. Fred Craig used the 92 mag when he designed the Merc M11.

Otherwise, I think that there isn't one way for a gun company to go about designing products. Certainly all those old wondernines were at least using a variation on the BHP mag, which cheapo aftermarket companies took advantage of by creating one hi-cap mag body and just cutting different mag latches in them. While a company like HK might do a lot of fundemental research and high speed camera work, I don't think that's how Ruger, Kahr, Taurus and Tanfoglio get things done. Trial and error also works, and you won't know how any individual company is doing things. It certainly seems like S&W flies by the seat of their pants with some things, but maybe they have some sheet metal geniuses in the magazine department.


Anyway, fascinating topic.