I Have The Itch For A Single Stack 9

[Virtuosity Student]

I have been able to take a couple of local classes which has improved my shooting fundamentals dramatically. I am also planning to shoot in some IDPA matches this summer with my G17. That being said, I have had this itch for almost a year now to get a single stack 9mm or 380 for deeper concealment/summer carry. After reading Doc's info on BUG's, I have decided to stick with 9mm. It makes more sense logistically and it's a heck of a lot cheaper than 380.

In 2016, there seems to be a lot of great options which has led me to analysis paralysis. I have been able to find and shoot most of these at the rental ranges but not all at the same range. One may have one or two options and another range an hour or more away has the others. I have not been able to do a real comparison between them to see which I shoot best on a given day.

My options thus far a long with my initial thoughts are as follows:

Ruger LC9s Pro - Best trigger, not the best aftermarket. How is Ruger compared to the rest? Lowest price point.
Shield 9mm - Seems to get rave reviews as best gun for the money. A tad larger and heavier than the Ruger. Same price as LC9s Pro.
XDS - People love it or hate it. I am undecided. The one I shot stood out as having the mildest recoil of all others. 9 round mags available which is attractive as this may serve as my primary EDC at times.
Glock 43 - Only able to shoot this one once and I did terrible. I had higher expectations and wanted to like this one. I still want to like this one. The most expensive of the bunch. Higher capacity mags not on the market and require mag extenders.
PPS M2 - I have not been able to find this or the M1 as a rental anywhere. Feels great and has great reviews online.


Ok so this is where I am at after shooting them some and some YouTube. I joined this forum as it seems the best/only place to get straightforward no BS answers on the internet. I am asking PF members on your thoughts and recommendations.

[Lomshek]

I have the Shield with Apex trigger kit. The LC9S has a better trigger out of the box than the Shield.

I haven't put any rounds through a Ruger so don't know about reliability. The Shield has had 2 or 3 failures to extract in 2000'ish rounds but is otherwise fine.

[Alma]

In that same category you might also consider a SIG SAUER P938.

[JPedersen]

I have had 3x different shields ... 2 with safeties and then one without. My first one had the best trigger and the no- safety one was the worst (gritty with a mushy break) ... So bad I sold it. I had about 1500 rounds through each one before I sold them. The second one only had a single FTE around 600 rounds ... The 1st and 3rd were very reliable.

Have you checked out any of the 3rd gen. S&W ?

The 3913 is what I went to after the shield. Trigger was great. Reliable - never had a failure of any type in the time I had it. Carried well. Then I went to the 3953 for a slimmer / less cluttered pistol that had a trigger similar to my 642 BUG. That is my current single stack.

I do not carry or shoot my XDS anymore...not because it has proven bad / unreliable ... But I like other guns better. It just doesn't bring a lot to the table for me... And I don't like the grip safety.

For me - the after market support and reliability of the Shield would probably lead me back to it for a 4th time (!!!) if forced to pick from your list.




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[RevolverRob]

You are missing some of the best guns of the bunch - Kahr.

The CW9 is my bog-standard recommendation for a single-stack 9. Inexpensive, highly concealable, very shootable. The stock bar-dot sights are excellent. Night sights are available directly from Kahr, holsters are everywhere, 7, 8, 9, and 10 round magazines are available. Best trigger of the group excepting the Gen 1 PPS (haven't tried the Gen2, so I don't know).

[RJ]

In my recent quest for a small carry gun, I handled and shot the following single stacks. FWIW, my thoughts:

G43 - Too squirmy and jumpy
Shield - Kept hitting mag release, plus, seemed very difficult for me to get a firm grip
PPS Classic - Very comfortable, shot comparable groups at 25 yards as my VP9

I had to wait 6 weeks to handle a PPS M2 at my LGS. I bought it based on the proven design, the ergonomics, and the PPS Classics showing in Guns and Ammo's Single Stack Shootout.

I have just over 700 rounds through it, very nice soft shooter.

Good luck; there sure are a lot of choices these days,

[Joe in PNG]

The Shield isn't bad with a generous application of skateboard tape- too squirmy otherwise.

[warpedcamshaft]

I have been able to take a couple of local classes which has improved my shooting fundamentals dramatically. I am also planning to shoot in some IDPA matches this summer with my G17. That being said, I have had this itch for almost a year now to get a single stack 9mm or 380 for deeper concealment/summer carry. After reading Doc's info on BUG's, I have decided to stick with 9mm. It makes more sense logistically and it's a heck of a lot cheaper than 380.

In 2016, there seems to be a lot of great options which has led me to analysis paralysis. I have been able to find and shoot most of these at the rental ranges but not all at the same range. One may have one or two options and another range an hour or more away has the others. I have not been able to do a real comparison between them to see which I shoot best on a given day.

My options thus far a long with my initial thoughts are as follows:

Ruger LC9s Pro - Best trigger, not the best aftermarket. How is Ruger compared to the rest? Lowest price point.
Shield 9mm - Seems to get rave reviews as best gun for the money. A tad larger and heavier than the Ruger. Same price as LC9s Pro.
XDS - People love it or hate it. I am undecided. The one I shot stood out as having the mildest recoil of all others. 9 round mags available which is attractive as this may serve as my primary EDC at times.
Glock 43 - Only able to shoot this one once and I did terrible. I had higher expectations and wanted to like this one. I still want to like this one. The most expensive of the bunch. Higher capacity mags not on the market and require mag extenders.
PPS M2 - I have not been able to find this or the M1 as a rental anywhere. Feels great and has great reviews online.


Ok so this is where I am at after shooting them some and some YouTube. I joined this forum as it seems the best/only place to get straightforward no BS answers on the internet. I am asking PF members on your thoughts and recommendations.

What methods of carry are you looking to potentially employ?

Some handguns on your list are a straight up no-go for some carry methods. (Example: Shield has not fit in any pants/shorts pockets for me period. G43/Sig 938/CM9 fit in all my current pants pockets.)

I can provide my viewpoint on raw shooting performance on a few of the handguns, but defining the purpose is very important here.

[45dotACP]

I scratched mine with a Colt 1911 commander in 9mm ;)

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[FrankinCA]

I tried the Shield couldn't warm up to it. I have to say my two favorite single stack 9mm's are Sig P239 and Kahr K9. No experience with PPS. I tried the Ruger LC9 and didn't care fore the trigger (it was an earlier model).

[Marko Kloos]

You're missing the best of the single-stack Nines (IMHO anyway), the SIG P239. There are lighter single-stacks in that caliber out there, but the P239 shoots and handles like a bigger gun. Someone else also mentioned the CW9, which only holds one round less and is much lighter and thinner. My CW9 has been a positive surprise--it's easy to conceal, easy to shoot well, and running reliably so far. (It's also less than half the price of the P239.)

I have a Gen1 Walther PPS, and that one's fine as well, but the mag release is definitely non-standard (long paddle-type in the trigger guard), and the mag floor plates are large and extend backwards from the rear wall of the mag to a point that makes the mags interfere with each other in double mag carriers. Other than that, it's a high-quality gun that's super slim and easy to conceal.

[Little Creek]

I suggest the Glock G43 with the Ghost EDGE connector, iHack Amerglo sights, and +2 Tango Down magazine extensions. It works for me. If you get one, I suggest you shoot it exclusively for a while. I have to admit I am biased as I have been shooting Glock pistols almost exclusively for the last few years. I have 2 G43 pistols, three if you count my wife's pistol. We have had no reliability issues with any of the 3 pistols. I use WWB 115gr and 147gr Bonded JHP. I have not tried any 124+P. The TD +2 extensions are my preference to all the other +1 or +2's on the market. The Pierce Grip +1 is also good. I don't leave home without one and a spare mag.

[Hambo]

In that same category you might also consider a SIG SAUER P938.

Sample of two from people I know with them: finicky on ammo or mag issues, not sure which. Not my circus, so it's not my monkey to tame.

[UNK]

Kahr has a gen 2. http://www.kahr.com/gen2-premium.asp


You are missing some of the best guns of the bunch - Kahr.

The CW9 is my bog-standard recommendation for a single-stack 9. Inexpensive, highly concealable, very shootable. The stock bar-dot sights are excellent. Night sights are available directly from Kahr, holsters are everywhere, 7, 8, 9, and 10 round magazines are available. Best trigger of the group excepting the Gen 1 PPS (haven't tried the Gen2, so I don't know).

[Nephrology]

Unlike the others I have been pretty satisfied with my Shield, but I also got it for a good price. Trigger is acceptable but not my favorite, though also not bad enough that I feel like it would be worth shelling out for the Apex kit. If I was you I would be looking at the Shield, the Walther PPS M1 or M2, and the Glock 43 - between those 3 I think you will find something you will be happy with.

[Hauptmann]

It might be a bit of a cross-training issue since you shoot the G17, but my favorite single stack is the Sig P239 9mm with Hogue wrap-around rubber grips installed. Sure it is bigger and heavier than a Glock 43 or Walther PPS, but it shoots and handles like a full sized pistol with full sized pistol accuracy. It conceals better than a P229, and from my own experience and a number of other shooters is easier to shoot well than the P229. It is probably the most underrated Sig made, and is relatively affordable if you buy used.

[Virtuosity Student]

What methods of carry are you looking to potentially employ?

My intentions for this purchase is for deeper concealment. I am wanting to try smart carry for those times when I am in gym shorts or athletic wear, or at work (a NPE environment adjacent to a chit neighborhood).

I also want to try this one on the ankle as a BUG to my G17 in cooler weather/not at work.

I originally was going to get a pocket .380, but after trying them all out and realizing that I cannot shoot them worth a crap and .380 ammo cost as much as or more in some cases than .45 ammo, no thanks.


You are missing some of the best guns of the bunch - Kahr.

I am a bit apprehensive about Kahr. All the reviews I have read usually are about ones that don't run reliably but IF you get one that does, that they work well for their intended role. I was able to put 25 rounds through a friends "fullsize" CT9 and found myself short stroking the trigger when trying to run F.A.S.T.

I have heard that the Premium models have better reliability but I am not sold on them. If I were going to give Kahr a shot, pun intended, then it would be their value priced C-series.

I have read about the Gen2 models but asking a LGS here about them gets you the same look as a cow when it sees a new gate :confused:

[H&KFanNC]

I have a Ruger LC9S and have rounds through my buddies Sig P239.

The Sig had, to me, noticeably less recoil than the Ruger. The Sig was smaller in the hand but I was able to get a firm grip on it with my small hands. Ruger was noticeably lighter and carried 1 more in the mag. The Sig was easier to shoot even though my Ruger had a Houge wrap-around grip on it, trimmed to fit.

Good Luck in your search!!


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[Irelander]

I've been intrigued by the Kahr P9 but after owning a finicky P380 I'm a little leery of all Kahr P-series guns. The way the slide stop lever is held on by that flimsy wire attached to the frame by a tiny screw that is screwed into plastic. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

I have been very impressed with the Walther PPS Classic. I fall more in love with it everyday. I rarely carry my G19 anymore because the PPS is so easy to carry and with the big backstrap handle much like a bigger gun. It also functions just like a Glock.

[flyrodr]

Have a Kahr PM9 and a Shield (also 9mm). Sample size of one each. The PM9 is smaller and lighter, and conceals better. The Shield, at least for me, is much easier to shoot accurately and quickly. The PM9 has had maybe a couple of thousand rounds through it, with no problems after the recommended 200 round break-in. Because of the long (albeit smooth) trigger pull and reset, it is a bit trickier for quick follow-up shots, particularly if you're transitioning from a shorter-pull pistol. And the recoil of the PM9 is snappier. The Shield (and I did put an Apex D/C kit in mine) shoots great and is accurate. It's not as good as the PM9 for pocket carry, as the footprint and weight are greater enough to be noticeably tighter is some pants where the PM9 works fine (and the Shield will pull down some gym shorts the PM9 usually doesn't). IWB carry, there's little practical difference. In fact, the Shield is a bit easier to get a consistent, secure grip on. All things considered, PM9 is in the safe, and Shield is on me. Local gun shop (again, sample size of one) is dealer for pretty much all the brands you mentioned, and said the Shield was their best-selling small pistol.

[RevolverRob]

I am a bit apprehensive about Kahr. All the reviews I have read usually are about ones that don't run reliably but IF you get one that does, that they work well for their intended role. I was able to put 25 rounds through a friends "fullsize" CT9 and found myself short stroking the trigger when trying to run F.A.S.T.

I have heard that the Premium models have better reliability but I am not sold on them. If I were going to give Kahr a shot, pun intended, then it would be their value priced C-series.

I have read about the Gen2 models but asking a LGS here about them gets you the same look as a cow when it sees a new gate :confused:

The ones with the biggest issues are definitely the smallest guns CM/PM series guns. My advice would be to go one step up (CW/P). If necessary, you can always chop the grip of the CW to CM/PM size without adversely affecting the gun. Reliability has not been an issue with the CW9 I have, from brand new on. I have about 3500 rounds from 115-grain steel cased garbage ammo, to 124-grain +P HST; not a single failure. I admittedly did not bother to run through a 2000-round test, because I am an OCD freak and dirty guns don't get carried or shot.

As for short-stroking the trigger - you absolutely have to run a Kahr like you would a DAO revolver, coming off the trigger entirely may be better if you have a tendency to short-stroke.

The Gen 2 guns are - as near as I can tell - not on the market yet. Davidson's finally has item numbers on them (entered in the last 90 days), but no guns have made it to them for distribution. My guess is we're still a few months away from seeing any of these guns on dealer shelves. If I can swing it, I do intend to be an early tester on the 5" Deltapoint equipped model.

-Rob

[Cool Breeze]

For me the decision came down to 3 top choices - G43, Shield, or PPS M2. I ruled out the following:

Sig P239 - I love shooting this gun but can't understand where it would fit in my rotation. It is taller than a G19, way heavier, and has less rounds.
Sig P938 - I honestly didn't want a 1911 battery of arms in such a small pistol
Sig P290RS- I know the specs say this is comparable to the other polymer single stacks, but it looked like a chunky brick in the gun store and I didn't want a DAO trigger.
Kel-tec PF9 - super light weight but incredibly unreliable. I had multiple failure to extracts per magazine. Kel-tec sent me a new extractor- same thing. Sold.
Springfield XDS - weight was 23 oz and heavier than the top 3 I narrowed it down to. Plus I didn't like the grip safety. That being said, they now have a 4.0 inch barrel version for those of you all who like the idea of a g26L but in single stack.
Ruger LC9/LC9S - I have to confess, I haven't tried the LC9S but the the original had a horrible trigger and for some reason in my brain, I can't put Ruger semi auto and self-defense gun together. Probably my own hangup but it just didn't seem as good of quality (subjectively than the top 3).
Kahr CM9 - this is still plaguing me - I heard many unreliable reports about it. Never shot one, but it is lighter (15.9 ounces with empty mag) than my top 3 and potentially good for pocket or ankle carry. Could be interesting if you get one that works.

Walther PPS M2 - nice pistol - at 21.1 oz empty -the heaviest of the 3. The sample I tried had no discernible trigger reset at all. I did like the idea of thumbing the striker tab to safely holster but in all honesty, I am not sure how functional that would be. You may know the trigger is being depressed but I could easily overcome it and fire the pistol. It is not like a gadget. It is halfway there, but not really.

SW Shield - I have to say I still like this gun. It is easier to shoot than a G43 and the multiple versions I have shot all have had good triggers. It is slightly heavier than a G43 but not by much. The only reason I didn't go with this was that it was longer than a G43 and with the G43, I liked the 6 rounds option because it is easier to conceal.

G43 - I ultimately decided on this. I am primarily a glock shooter so I know the platform and understand how it operates. It is the lightest of the bunch. I liked the 6 rounds for easily concealment but was hoping they would come out with stock 8 rounds. Luckily there is aftermarket options. 2 things though - The trigger is awful, absolutely awful. I polished it and installed a ghost edge. It is snappier than both the Shield and PPS (I shot the classic version). I associate this to it being lighter but also because it has the worst grip of the 3. I added grip tape and that has helped a lot. Just slightly snappier now than the shield.

Overall, I have really grown to like the g43 for deep concealment, but as far as where it fits into my carry rotation is difficult. It is a substitute for a larger gun and it doesn't (though I wish it did) act as a BUG for me. For a BUG, I want either pocket or ankle and for me it fails. It is too big and heavy for both. For some it might work, but for me it didn't. That being said, for ankle carry, i put it in a galco ankle holster and it still hurt and was uncomfortable. If it was in a knull, alessi, 5 shot holster with felt, it may have done better but I don't know. I wish i could test that out without investing the $$ to do it but I am still deciding if I want to go that route.

For ankle or pocket carry - I still haven't figured it out. For an overcoat a G43 might work fine but I think it is too big for anything else. For ankle carry, I am considering a cm9 but probably not because it is close to the weight of a g43. Also people have reported on here that revolvers are easier to grab out a pocket than a semi auto because of their more rounded shape (assuming it is hammerless). I am also considering a Ruger LCR in 38 sp. At only 13.5 ounces it is 2 ounces lighter than a j frame and 5 ounces lighter than a G43. I suppose I could also go with .380 auto but I keep rereading DocGKR's article on the effectiveness of the caliber and it just pauses me for the time being to go that route.

Let us know what you decide and how it works.

[idahojess]

My intentions for this purchase is for deeper concealment. I am wanting to try smart carry for those times when I am in gym shorts or athletic wear, or at work (a NPE environment adjacent to a chit neighborhood).



I originally was going to get a pocket .380, but after trying them all out and realizing that I cannot shoot them worth a crap and .380 ammo cost as much as or more in some cases than .45 ammo, no thanks.

:

Have you tried a glock 42 (.380)? That is a very nice gun to shoot, and it seems like it has gotten good reliability ratings, and is light, but not LCP light. (LCP's are nasty). I don't own a 42 (I find the slide a little hard to rack for me --personal hand issue) but I've shot them at rental counters, and it is very nice gun to shoot (for me) compared to the single stack nines. I get the ammo cost issue, but still...Not trying to derail your decision, but it seems like it might fit what you are looking for.

[Kyle Reese]

I'm a huge fan of the Walther PPS in 9x19.

[Virtuosity Student]

Thanks to all for your input. I decided on, and went with, the Glock 43. I will post up some pics later of it alongside my dad's BG 380. On paper the G43 seemed bigger than it actually is.

[Kennydale]

I'm not ready for an SS9 yet I would look into M&P Shield, Glock G43, Walther PPS M2 and I kind of like the Honor Defense Honor Guard (Don't know how reliable it is though)

[Dr. No]

Kahr PM9 for me. I wanted a single stack 9 that concealed well and didn't have a trigger that sucked. The Kahr is the only one that fit that bill. Reminds me of a smooth revolver trigger. I've got 500 rounds through mine and it has never skipped a beat. Works great for HR218 carry in NYC/Kali since it's sub-10 round mags. Very comfy appendix and disappears in low profile roles.

[palmetto99]

I to was looking over single stack 9's. Looked at the G43, XDs and the Shield. Found a used Shield at a good price. That made my decision for me. Was a little squirmy in the hand. Talon grip tape solved that problem. So far, so good.

[Irelander]

I know there were some sneers and jeers about the announcement of the Avidity Arms PD10 pistol by Rob Pincus, but have there been any updated in its development. I don't have access to FB to check the Avidity page.

I sure wouldn't be first in line to buy one but it seems like a nice idea and I'm all for new CCW pistols on the market.

[Whirlwind06]

I know there were some sneers and jeers about the announcement of the Avidity Arms PD10 pistol by Rob Pincus, but have there been any updated in its development. I don't have access to FB to check the Avidity page.

I sure wouldn't be first in line to buy one but it seems like a nice idea and I'm all for new CCW pistols on the market.

FB site says that they have Blue guns and the they will be at the NRA show. No release dates that I can see.

[Whirlwind06]

Anybody that looking for a good deal on a Kahr, Buds has the TP9 on sale for $344. The TP line which is their "premium" series, front sight cut into the slide (not pinned), polygonal barrel, etc. It also ships with 3 mags instead of just one with the budget line.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_51/products_id/13192/Kahr+Arms+TP9093+TP9+8+1+9mm+4%22

[Rustin]

I ended up with the PPS M2 le model. For my tastes I narrowed it down to the pps and the g43. I'm sure the shield is a great firearm but it wasn't my cup, perhaps because of the hinged trigger.

G43 - The g43 was simply too small for my xl hands. I couldn't get a good grip with the flush magazine and it was a challenge to drop said magazine while my hands were in the way. I feel that a proper draw is the most underrated aspect of ccw, and the short g43 left me with a lack of confidence that I would be able to successfully draw
from concealment with consistency. While I appreciate its light weight, I felt the extra 4 oz on the Walther might contribute to less recoil.

Pps m2 - Wow, what a gun! My oversized hands wrapped perfectly around the finely contoured Walther ergonomic grip. The empty mags practically shot out and to my surprise, there was no pinching involved when reloading with the 6,7 and 8 round mags. I also like the striker indicator. The trigger is fine and the gun is very controllable. I personally feel that the m2 is the finest single stack 9mm gun out there and I encourage anyone interested to track one down and give it a try. Apex just announced a flat trigger for the m2 so I think this little gun is going to be around for a while.

[Edwin]

This is going to sound crazy, but try the trigger on a Bersa BPCC 9. It's really really good.