Picked up an interesting Beretta.

[navyman8903]

SO! My buddy needed tires and said he'd sell me his 92FS for $400 with 4(15 round) mags. I wasn't looking for one now as I'm saving for an MR762 and SCAR17s. But, $400 for a range gun....sure.


Well I got it home and it wasn't a 92fs......it was a 92FS Centurion. I had absolutely not fucking Idea what that was. IT was also dry and dirty as sin. So I cleaned it up, and it definitely needs repainted sights. The finish is chipped in parts as well. Again though.....$400. So I took it out, fired 160 rounds (forgetting the other 140 I had for it). It shot great. So I'm very happy with it. I also am happy that since it's essentially a compact upper and a standard frame, there's wilson combat parts I can put in it. $100 of which are already en route. Overall I'm a happy panda. I can't wait to get the wilson parts in there.

79217922

[OlongJohnson]

Get the G conversion done on the slide. Or maybe just lurk on some forum until Beretta finally makes good on the parts kit to make the conversion without machining.

[HCM]

Get the G conversion done on the slide. Or maybe just lurk on some forum until Beretta finally makes good on the parts kit to make the conversion without machining.

G conversions by both AGW and Wilson have been hit or miss. I would just wait for the factory conversion parts or use a Wilson lo profile safety.

[M2CattleCo]

G conversions by both AGW and Wilson have been hit or miss. I would just wait for the factory conversion parts or use a Wilson lo profile safety.

Are they hit or miss pertaining to function, or availability of getting the service done?

OP, if you have trouble with those Check-Mate mags put Wolff or ISMI springs in 'em.

[JonInWA]

Are they hit or miss pertaining to function, or availability of getting the service done?

OP, if you have trouble with those Check-Mate mags put Wolff or ISMI springs in 'em.

Or ask Check-Mate for replacement springs-they have a lifetime guarantee.

To the OP-you got a good gun. The Centurions are pretty bulletproof, especially in 9mm. From what I can see, the Bruniton finish actually looks pretty decent, as does the anodization on the frame-I've seen the frame finish worn to silver on .mil and LEO 92s.

Regarding parts, as a matter of course I'd recommend immediately replacing the recoil spring, triggerbar spring, trigger return spring-and all magazine springs. Check the locking block for wear-and if it's a first generation locking block, I'd probably replace it sooner than later, but have a gunsmith fit the replacement to the slide.

Regarding sights, Tooltech can install Trijicon tritiums at a very reasonable cost; recently they re-lamped my 92D (it came with Trijicons as the OEM sights, but they'd dimmed with age) with a green tritium front, with an orange tube vial surround, and yellow rears, with the tube vials blacked out-that makes for a very acceptable day and night sight acquisition..

Best, Jon

[HCM]

Are they hit or miss pertaining to function, or availability of getting the service done?

OP, if you have trouble with those Check-Mate mags put Wolff or ISMI springs in 'em.

Pertaining to function. If you go through the beretta love thread here on PF or over to beretta forums some of the G conversions work well and some are problematic. This has been true for work done by both AGW and Wilson.

Personally, if Wilson combat has issues providing consistent functional conversions, it's not something I would want to mess with Particularly on a gun with a centurion slide which would be difficult to replace.

[GardoneVT]

Are they hit or miss pertaining to function, or availability of getting the service done?

OP, if you have trouble with those Check-Mate mags put Wolff or ISMI springs in 'em.

OP has a great gun.
Using Checkmate mags are a great way to turn it into a malfunctioning paperweight.

Best thing to do with those is swap the flat bottom base plates onto a factory Beretta mag (for carry) and junk the rest. They're the only magazine brand out of the current Model 92 options which are firmly on my Nope list.

[navyman8903]

I ordered the TRS, Hammer spring, Fluted Compact L guide rod, recoil buffer (didn't need it but why not try it I guess) and the recoil spring standard pressure, all from Wilson combat. Plus the Elite hammer, they should all be here by Friday. I'll update once that's all in there. I didn't think about the Trigger bar spring sadly, that will have to come another day, when I add the VZ grips and WC mag release.

Adding the lamps isn't a bad Ideal, I'll look into that.

[xray 99]

I always loved the looks of the Centurion. Congrats.

[The Apprentice]

Love the Wilson ultra thin grips on mine with the extended mag release.

[Jeep]

OP has a great gun.
Using Checkmate mags are a great way to turn it into a malfunctioning paperweight.

Best thing to do with those is swap the flat bottom base plates onto a factory Beretta mag (for carry) and junk the rest. They're the only magazine brand out of the current Model 92 options which are firmly on my Nope list.

I've found that the current Checkmate Beretta mags are terrific range magazines. They can take a lot of abuse and they don't have the internal problems that the former military parkerized versions apparently had.

[JonInWA]

OP has a great gun.
Using Checkmate mags are a great way to turn it into a malfunctioning paperweight.

Best thing to do with those is swap the flat bottom base plates onto a factory Beretta mag (for carry) and junk the rest. They're the only magazine brand out of the current Model 92 options which are firmly on my Nope list.

Really?? And your blanket assessment/denigration of Check-Mate magazines is based on what? That certainly has not been my personal experience in protracted testing and use of their magazines. Many of you know that I'm sponsored by Check-Mate, and have been for years, but that actually came out of my extended use and appreciation of their magazines. Since 2007, I've nearly exclusively used Check-Mate dry-film finished magazines in my 92D-for carry and IDPA (both club-level and multiple state-level sanctioned matches). I've been running 8 of their magazines as a long-term test-and trust me, they're used. At least 2 of them are kept fully loaded for months, and then used to check for functionality and spring tension. To date, while I view magazines as consumable items (and springs even more so) I have yet to replace any springs or magazines.

One of my issued magazines was slightly out of spec-it would load and cycle rounds without a hiccup, but would not drop free when ejected. When I sent it back to Check-Mate for verification, they re-sent it through the sizing die, re-sent it to me for further testing, and it's performed superbly ever since. I found it interesting that they would actually go through the effort required to determine the causal factor, and then actually expeditiously repair it, rather than simply throwing it away and simply sending me a new replacement. Check-Mate really does take their life-time magazine guarantee quite seriously, and stands by their products-in my case, and in the case of rare others that I've personally assisted in resolving.

In my 9+ years of using and testing the 92 dry-film magazines, I've literally had precisely 2 issues with either the magazines or my 92D in literally thousands of rounds of use, in all sorts of weather-the one discussed above, and the other was a cycling/extraction issue that I experienced when firing my 92D in a match weak-handed only. That turned out to be an operator (moi) error, and never replicated, once I (immediately) corrected my grip. That issue cannot be attributed to the magazine.

In terms of preventive maintenance, while I certainty don't inordinately baby my gear, I do take care of it. Prior to use, my magazines are disassembled, and the tube interiors, springs, and inner baseplates have any preservative/cutting oil removed, and then wiped down with Dri-Slide, a moly disulfide dry film lubricant and anti-corrosive; tube and baseplate exteriors are wiped down with Weapon Shield. After use, tube exteriors and followers are brushed clean of GSR and dirt/mud/water/sand, and more thoroughly cleaned internally and re-treated as needed.

All of my magazines are from 2005, 2008 and 2010 production runs-and except for one equipped with an experimental stainless steel spring, they were not cherry-picked.

In addition to their stellar performance over the years, I also prefer the hardened steel baseplate Check-Mate uses on these magazines; I've found them to be very tough and durable-as well as low-profile.

I'm not unaware of the issues that plagued the previous pre-2004/2005 production DoD magazines, with their contractually-mandated internal and external phosphate crackle-finish, which disastrously trapped granules of fine desert sand and grit, inhibiting cartridge movement in the tube. After Check-Mate diagnosed this (and provided the dry-film finish), they subsequently offered to DoD to refinish the phosphate crackle-finished magazines at $.40 per magazine (removing the phosphate crackle-finish and refinishing with the dry-film finish), which DoD declined to do; instead, new dry-film magazines were intermixed with the older phosphate crackle-finished magazines in unit arms rooms, which perpetuated the operational issues and reputation of the magazines as sub-par performers. Interestingly, in more temperate climates/environments, these magazines performed well, but they would hardly be my first choice.

Other issues experienced in the field were when some GI-geniuses felt that they could extend worn-out or abused springs back to life by stretching out the magazine springs and then re-using them, instead of throwing them away and replacing with new ones. The springs would be very briefly re-invigorated, and then resumed their "de-tensility."

GardoneVT, if you've personally experienced specific problems with Check-Mate magazines that you've personally had (and ideally had and maintained since new), both I and Check-Mate would be very interested in what issues you've encountered.

And that's not to say that there are other excellent magazines available for Beretta 92s-Beretta's own (both Beretta and MDS-roll-marked)(especially the metal-baseplated Berettas; the MDS apparently have always had metal baseplates), Beretta's PVD-treated and anti-and internally straked magazines (OEM issue with M9A1s), and MecGars have excellent reputations. However, for quality, ruggedness durability, weather resistance, concealibility, and overall value (the Check-Mate magazines are very reasonably priced) I remain exceptionally pleased with the Check-Mate dry-film 92 magazines.

Best, Jon

[Jeep]

Jon: I'm not sure that they still had .45's when you were in, but I never saw a .45 magazine cleaned (we had no idea how to disassemble them) or thrown out. Not matter how poorly it performed it was just thrown back in the same box to frustrate the next user.

The care and cleaning of magazines was not only a low priority item, it was a no priority item because they were never inspected by the IG.

My guess is that practice simply remained when the M9 came along.

[M2CattleCo]

The Check-Mate mags I have are all 2015 production and they work fine. They feed HSTs and Gold Dots just as well as the PB mags. They do have weaker springs than the PB mags.

I also have a bunch of Check-Mate 9mm P226 that work just as well. They also have significantly weaker springs than OEM Mec-Gars.

[JonInWA]

Jon: I'm not sure that they still had .45's when you were in, but I never saw a .45 magazine cleaned (we had no idea how to disassemble them) or thrown out. Not matter how poorly it performed it was just thrown back in the same box to frustrate the next user.

The care and cleaning of magazines was not only a low priority item, it was a no priority item because they were never inspected by the IG.

My guess is that practice simply remained when the M9 came along.

Yep-that was my experience and observation as well; in '78 when I came in as a 2LT company XO (with 1911A1 as the standard issue sidearm, through '92 as a Major and a Group XO (when the Beretta 92F had significantly asserted itself as the issue sidearm). Unless you had a shooter-oriented unit armorer, or a knowledgeable leadership cadre (both NCO and officer), or a perceptive IG, magazine maintenance was pretty much ignored in my recollected experiences as well...

Best, Jon

[Hambo]

navyman8903, do whatever you want with the Check-Mates, but get a few 19 round Mec-Gars to carry.

[navyman8903]

I'm picking up 10 of the 18 round Mec-Gars and 6-10 of the 20 rounders. I know you guys may not all know me from the other forum. But I stack mags to the roof. I've got 14 mags for an MR762 I don't even own yet (But I'm saving for).. I plan on at least 1 92A1 or M9A1, and a Wilson Combat 92G. But my usual magazine requirement for minimum numbers is 10-15 per pistol, and if it's multiple of the same platform, it's that number + 20. Because reasons. If I sold all of my "Extra" mags, I could afford to supercharge my mustang, and get a High speed rifle. I'm almost at the point where I have to move my mags into a different safe.


On a side note, Wilson Combat grips.....standard or Thin? I'm interested to try the thin grips out. The standard grips fit me well enough to not cause problems. For reference, The MARK 23 fits my hands on the very edge of my comfort zone, but I can run it well. So I don't NEED the thinner grips.

For reference only:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3XM-6sfQzA

[GardoneVT]

Really?? And your blanket assessment/denigration of Check-Mate magazines is based on what? That certainly has not been my personal experience in protracted testing and use of their magazines. Many of you know that I'm sponsored by Check-Mate, and have been for years, but that actually came out of my extended use and appreciation of their magazines. Since 2007, I've nearly exclusively used Check-Mate dry-film finished magazines in my 92D-for carry and IDPA (both club-level and multiple state-level sanctioned matches). I've been running 8 of their magazines as a long-term test-and trust me, they're used. At least 2 of them are kept fully loaded for months, and then used to check for functionality and spring tension. To date, while I view magazines as consumable items (and springs even more so) I have yet to replace any springs or magazines.

One of my issued magazines was slightly out of spec-it would load and cycle rounds without a hiccup, but would not drop free when ejected. When I sent it back to Check-Mate for verification, they re-sent it through the sizing die, re-sent it to me for further testing, and it's performed superbly ever since. I found it interesting that they would actually go through the effort required to determine the causal factor, and then actually expeditiously repair it, rather than simply throwing it away and simply sending me a new replacement. Check-Mate really does take their life-time magazine guarantee quite seriously, and stands by their products-in my case, and in the case of rare others that I've personally assisted in resolving.

In my 9+ years of using and testing the 92 dry-film magazines, I've literally had precisely 2 issues with either the magazines or my 92D in literally thousands of rounds of use, in all sorts of weather-the one discussed above, and the other was a cycling/extraction issue that I experienced when firing my 92D in a match weak-handed only. That turned out to be an operator (moi) error, and never replicated, once I (immediately) corrected my grip. That issue cannot be attributed to the magazine.

In terms of preventive maintenance, while I certainty don't inordinately baby my gear, I do take care of it. Prior to use, my magazines are disassembled, and the tube interiors, springs, and inner baseplates have any preservative/cutting oil removed, and then wiped down with Dri-Slide, a moly disulfide dry film lubricant and anti-corrosive; tube and baseplate exteriors are wiped down with Weapon Shield. After use, tube exteriors and followers are brushed clean of GSR and dirt/mud/water/sand, and more thoroughly cleaned internally and re-treated as needed.

All of my magazines are from 2005, 2008 and 2010 production runs-and except for one equipped with an experimental stainless steel spring, they were not cherry-picked.

In addition to their stellar performance over the years, I also prefer the hardened steel baseplate Check-Mate uses on these magazines; I've found them to be very tough and durable-as well as low-profile.

I'm not unaware of the issues that plagued the previous pre-2004/2005 production DoD magazines, with their contractually-mandated internal and external phosphate crackle-finish, which disastrously trapped granules of fine desert sand and grit, inhibiting cartridge movement in the tube. After Check-Mate diagnosed this (and provided the dry-film finish), they subsequently offered to DoD to refinish the phosphate crackle-finished magazines at $.40 per magazine (removing the phosphate crackle-finish and refinishing with the dry-film finish), which DoD declined to do; instead, new dry-film magazines were intermixed with the older phosphate crackle-finished magazines in unit arms rooms, which perpetuated the operational issues and reputation of the magazines as sub-par performers. Interestingly, in more temperate climates/environments, these magazines performed well, but they would hardly be my first choice.

Other issues experienced in the field were when some GI-geniuses felt that they could extend worn-out or abused springs back to life by stretching out the magazine springs and then re-using them, instead of throwing them away and replacing with new ones. The springs would be very briefly re-invigorated, and then resumed their "de-tensility."

GardoneVT, if you've personally experienced specific problems with Check-Mate magazines that you've personally had (and ideally had and maintained since new), both I and Check-Mate would be very interested in what issues you've encountered.

And that's not to say that there are other excellent magazines available for Beretta 92s-Beretta's own (both Beretta and MDS-roll-marked)(especially the metal-baseplated Berettas; the MDS apparently have always had metal baseplates), Beretta's PVD-treated and anti-and internally straked magazines (OEM issue with M9A1s), and MecGars have excellent reputations. However, for quality, ruggedness durability, weather resistance, concealibility, and overall value (the Check-Mate magazines are very reasonably priced) I remain exceptionally pleased with the Check-Mate dry-film 92 magazines.

Best, Jon

I'll lay out the specific issues thus:

I ordered and received three Checkmate 15 round magazines.

Upon using all three at my next range session, I experienced failures to feed on all three of the brand new magazines. The followers felt like they were in a molasses lined tube.

Perhaps a new spring would have fixed things.I opted for ordering factory magazines instead .

[M2CattleCo]

I'll lay out the specific issues thus:

I ordered and received three Checkmate 15 round magazines.

Upon using all three at my next range session, I experienced failures to feed on all three of the brand new magazines. The followers felt like they were in a molasses lined tube.

Perhaps a new spring would have fixed things.I opted for ordering factory magazines instead .

Did you pop the base plate off and see what was up? I've had many new Sig mags with old, thick oil in 'em.

[Welder]

Back to the Centurion...I assume you know the Compact and Centurion slides are the same, just different roll-marks and were even mixed and matched at the factory. Nice length slide. I've never owned a Centurion but had a Compact FS for a short time. Building a 92D Compact now, and using a D Centurion slide to start the build.

[JonInWA]

I'll lay out the specific issues thus:

I ordered and received three Checkmate 15 round magazines.

Upon using all three at my next range session, I experienced failures to feed on all three of the brand new magazines. The followers felt like they were in a molasses lined tube.

Perhaps a new spring would have fixed things.I opted for ordering factory magazines instead .

I always treat new magazines like a new (or new to me) gun-I check for functionality, disassemble, clean, treat as needed, reassemble, check for functionality, and only then proceed to live fire test. Kind of the "measure twice, cut once" concept, which has served me well over time.

If you would, and have the time, try that. If there are still problems, I'll be happy to provide you with a contact at Check-Mate to expeditiously make things good for you regarding them.

Best, Jon

[navyman8903]

8054805580568057


Added all the parts, now I have to run it and see how she does.

[M2CattleCo]

Is that where the Shok-Buff rides? I've never seen one in a Beretta.

[navyman8903]

Is that where the Shok-Buff rides? I've never seen one in a Beretta.

Yeah, it would jack with the locking block camming if it was more to the rear. I've seen them on the frame before in other guns, but not here. Guess the beretta is different, but it makes sense with how the bottom of the barrel is shaped.

[farscott]

I may be worrying about nothing, but I do not like the idea of a Shok-Buff in a Beretta 92. The Beretta system uses the locking block as a wear item, so there is no need to use a buff. The 92 is pretty soft-shooting, so the buff is not even needed. The buff decreases slide travel and can cause stoppages when the buff is damaged.

[JonInWA]

I've never used one, but I also agree with Farscott. With current locking block life expectancy in the vicinity of 20+K rounds as I recall, I'm not sure of any significant benefits to be derived from the Shok-Buff-assuming standard pressure ammunition is used. I could see a benefit if a constant diet of +p or +p+ was expected, but these guns performed more than decently in the XM9 trials leading to their adoption with NATO ammunition as I recall, which if not +p was pretty darned close to it. Samples are continuously tested out of the production runs as well. I believe.

In 9mm, I think that the Shok-Buff is unnecessary; for a 96-series .40 however, it might be well worth using.

But there's nothing wrong with some experimentation. I'd just be very wary of the potential of deteriorating fragments of the Shok-Buff coming off and potentially gumming up the works, which I believe has been an issue with other guns using them. Apparently they need to be examined and replaced with some frequency to help prevent such.

Best, Jon

[M2CattleCo]

I used those Wilson Shok-Buffs in 1911s for years and never had a reliability problem out of them. I'd change 'em every 1-2K rounds depending on their condition.

Contrary to internet lore, I thought they increased the reliability of the 1911. Damping the impact of the slide hitting the frame at the end of it's travel actually helped to prevent inertia feeds, which, IMO, is the root cause of many mis-diagnosed feeding problems.