WC CQB Questions

[rojocorsa]

//I had no idea that the 1911 was one of the flavors of the week around here as of late. They're not really my main gun, but I just picked up a new-to-me sixteen year old Wilson CQB.

Per the previous owner, the first owner put 400 rnds through it, and the guy who sold it to me put 100 or so. I will be the 3rd owner.

What do I need to know about this gun as far as springs, and general maintenance, and round count intervals? Are 1911s really *that* finicky?

Any other things I should know in general?

After briefly chatting with TCinVA, he suggested these WC flatwire springs, so these are already on my radar. I also PM'd Mr. Giddings of Gun Nuts (since I know he shoots a ton of 1911), and he suggested the Wilson EMT magazines.

The gun came with four 47-Ds and the soft case but no papers. I've already emailed WC inquiring about my gun's build history/specs. It's a 3 digit gun, FWIW.

I'll take this pistol to a [USPSA] match once I get a proper holster for it.

All this being said, my main firearms are Beretta 92/and a Glock 19, and these will still be. I just got this WC for a good deal.

[rojocorsa]

7920
Picture

[EVP]

If I were to buy a older Wilson CQB and was the third owner, I would send it back to Wilson and have them look it over and put new springs and stuff while there at it. It costs money but you already spent some coin on a quality gun, mine as well do it right. Also Wilson could probably provide answers to all your questions and also give you service interval schedule. You would be starting things off the right way.

[theJanitor]

I'd put fresh springs in it and rebuild the mags with the 7rd kit. That's a pretty early gun using their own frame which I think started in 1996 (?). I have a hard time foreseeing any problems with that configuration. My Wilson's are from the early 90s, built on colts.

edit: Kevin P and I were posting at the same time. His recommendation is very good too

[HCM]

Nice !

This is a great resource for the PM info your looking for. http://www.10-8performance.com/1911/

Before becoming a pistolsmith, the owner of 10-8, Hilton Yam was a shooter and an LEO with an organization which issued 1911's for tactical team use so he has seen a significant number of rounds through 1911s.

I would second rebuilding your 47D magazines with the Trip Super 7 kits.

https://www.trippresearch.com/store/store_1911.html

http://www.brownells.com/magazines/handgun-magazines/magazine-parts/magazine-hardware/1911-super-7-magazine-upgrade-kit-prod55221.aspx

In my experience, 7 round mags work much more reliably than 8 rounders, unless the 8 round is built with a longer magazine tube to accommodate the extra round like the lates generation Wilson ETM magazines.

[rojocorsa]

Thanks for these leads.

Also, is it true that USGI 7 rounders are still a decent option? I keep hearing about them as such.

[Sal Picante]

Looks the same as my wife's WC CQB. (mine is SN .... 948) - Mine doesn't have ambi safeties. (I also fitted a Novak rear and a extended mag button to it...)

We run 8 rd 47D's. They just plain old work in the gun.
I think I just lubed the gun and put a new RSA in there when we got it.

Dude they aren't that finicky: We just shoot the crap out of it. Works fine with 230 ball, and all sorts of hollow point ammo.

[HCM]

Thanks for these leads.

Also, is it true that USGI 7 rounders are still a decent option? I keep hearing about them as such.

Good quality 7 rounders (colt / metal form or actual GI) are a base line for reliability. It doesn't mean they are the only mags which will work.

A high quality 5" steel frame gun like your Wilson is optimal in terms of reliability. Don't over think it.

[Ntexwheels]

If as you say the pistol only has roughly 500 rounds through it, give it a good cleaning, Inspect it thoroughly, lube it and shoot the heck out of it.

Somewhere around 4 or 5000 rounds change out the springs. All of them!

As far as mags are concerned, Colt, Metal Form and Wilson 47's are good to go. For me I use Tripp MFG Cobra mags exclusively. I found they work better than any and their quality control is top notch

I've carried and handled 1911's for over 46 years and trust my life to them implicitly and that's my advice for what it's worth.

[That Guy]

Somewhere around 4 or 5000 rounds change out the springs. All of them!


Eh?

Looking at what Hilton Yam recommends, that's way past the scheduled recoil spring change. As for the rest of the springs, why? I can see changing the firing pin spring at the same time as the recoil spring, but aren't the rest of them basically rated for the lifetime of the gun?

[HCM]

Eh?

Looking at what Hilton Yam recommends, that's way past the scheduled recoil spring change. As for the rest of the springs, why? I can see changing the firing pin spring at the same time as the recoil spring, but aren't the rest of them basically rated for the lifetime of the gun?

For the OP, Wolff sells the recoil springs and firing pin springs together as a set for just this reason.

[Ntexwheels]

Eh?

Looking at what Hilton Yam recommends, that's way past the scheduled recoil spring change. As for the rest of the springs, why? I can see changing the firing pin spring at the same time as the recoil spring, but aren't the rest of them basically rated for the lifetime of the gun?

Why? Because over the years I've found it works. And I've never had any of my 1911's fail to do what they are supposed to do

You can follow Hilton Yam if you want to or Vickers or the other hotshots. Me, I'll continue doing what has worked perfectly for my guns through the years.

[HCM]

Why? Because over the years I've found it works. And I've never had any of my 1911's fail to do what they are supposed to do

You can follow Hilton Yam if you want to or Vickers or the other hotshots. Me, I'll continue doing what has worked perfectly for my guns through the years.

Your method will certainly work. For keeping one or two personal guns running the cost in both time and money is negligible.

Vickers and yam are coming from a perspective of keeping dozens to hundreds of guns running.

Re spring change intervals - this will depend on the power level of the ammo you're shooting, at least to some degree.

[HopetonBrown]

Sending a gun back to Wilson for a spring change seems a little overkill. They sell a pack with 1 of every spring in it for $16 (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/207411/wilson-combat-complete-spring-set-1911-government). Personally I'd just compare the recoil and firing pin spring lengths to new ones I have, and if they're shorter then I'd switch them out.

If you've spent any time on the Wilson section of a 1911 forum you'll notice most of the owners don't seem to shoot them a whole lot, so they can be a good value when bought used.

I like the Tripp Cobra mags over the ETMs. The Tripp metal mag body is longer, but the overall length is the same as the ETM. Tripp has a hybrid follower vs all plastic for the ETM. Tripp's baseplate is easier to remove for cleaning between stages, and there is less area cut out for the witness holes, which would seem like they'd keep debris out better than the ETM.

Used 47Ds are easy to sell off on the gun boards as they have excellent brand recognition.

[flyrodr]

When you're checking the springs, you might want to see if there's a shock buff in there - - - Wilson seems to typically put them in the 5" guns. Don't know that they help much (particularly if you keep the recoil spring fresh), but if one ever splits into pieces, it sure can lock up the pistol. With the round count as low as indicated, I'd do what several others said: Lube it well and shoot it a bunch. Then, if there's anything amiss, send it back to Wilson. Otherwise, just enjoy the heck out of it. In my experience, Wilson does an excellent job of setting up their 1911s to function well, and to function well for a long time. And their customer service is great. I'd put them at the top of the semi-custom builders. I'd also second HB's recommendation on the Tripp Cobra 8-round mags.

[theJanitor]

As much I do like the Tripp mags, the gun was BUILT around the 47's. I'd stick with them.

[45dotACP]

Maybe define finicky? I went to 1911s from glocks and discovered that never lubing or cleaning a 1911 will cause problems...about 1750 rounds of no lube and no cleaning and my 1911 became sluggish enough to see the slide cycling and occasionally failing to feed. Did a basic cleaning and lube and no more problems. About 10,000 rounds later of not cleaning the firing pin channel and my lighter than stock mainspring and I wound up with light strikes. I swapped to 22lb mainspring, replaced the firing pin spring (really should do that with every recoil spring change) and cleaned the thing and it's back to normal.

If you're gonna shoot it in USPSA, I'd probably keep an eye on how much you shoot, change springs at the intervals suggested by guys like Hilton Yam, clean it before a match and use 8 round mags. For a competitive gun in .45 there is no reason to use 7 rounders, especially when you have a magwell. I have run 1911's with 8 rounders since I started shooting 1911s and the first mag I ever bought was a 47D in 2013 and it still works. I would probably suggest those, or the ETM mags. Brownells has Wilson mags going on sale very regularly. I got a ton of CMC powermags when midway had them on sale. I like the Brownells 8 round mags too...those have worked for me also....but considering your gun is a Wilson, it seems silly not to use Wilson mags...

[EVP]

Sending a gun back to Wilson for a spring change seems a little overkill.

The recommendation was not just for a spring change as anyone can replace springs. It was more of an oppertunity to have the gun looked over and inspected since he is the 3rd owner. It seems like a smart way to go when you spend $1.5k to $2k on a used gun.

[farscott]

I tend to purchase my 1911 pistols used unless I am working with my smith. More than once I have bought a used WC, including a Protector and a Combat Elite. In both cases, a detail strip showed the guns were basically never fired. So my advice:

1) Detail strip the pistol. Discard a shok buff if found. No need to replace it with a new one.
2) Look for signs of damage (should be none) and replace the firing pin and recoil springs. Springs are not needed on a gun with 400 rounds through it, but the gun is apart and springs are inexpensive insurance.
3) Clean it and assemble it.
4) Lube it. 1911-pattern pistols need more lube than newer designs.
5) Shoot it. Repeat until out of ammo and/or you are tired of grinning.
6) In the unlikely event it does not function, contact WC. The gun is essentially under warranty for life, and WC is really good about standing behind their products.

On a five-inch gun, I usually replace recoil and firing pins springs on an annual or 5,000-round basis, whichever comes first. Springs are really not expensive.

On a funny note, I read an article from Bob Bell where he shot a GI-issue 1911 that had been loaded for about forty years with military ball. Gun, ammo, and magazine functioned with no issues. So much for those springs taking a set.

[rojocorsa]

On a funny note, I read an article from Bob Bell where he shot a GI-issue 1911 that had been loaded for about forty years with military ball. Gun, ammo, and magazine functioned with no issues. So much for those springs taking a set.

My understanding is that back then, only Colt made the parts and put the guns together (Except for the war, but im sure all was done Colt's way)...so things jived a little better and worked a little better, right?

[HCM]

On a funny note, I read an article from Bob Bell where he shot a GI-issue 1911 that had been loaded for about forty years with military ball. Gun, ammo, and magazine functioned with no issues. So much for those springs taking a set.

I also tend to buy my 1911's used.

Re springs: No, springs don't take a set. Springs wear by going through compression and release cycles, which cause micro cracks and eventually weaken the spring. This is why "stretching" worn springs no only doesn't work but accelerates wear.

[HCM]

My understanding is that back then, only Colt made the parts and put the guns together (Except for the war, but im sure all was done Colt's way)...so things jived a little better and worked a little better, right?

One standard / TDP (like M16's etc) combined with looser tolerances.

[rojocorsa]

How come all these modern "good" 1911s are built tight and not loose?

[HCM]

How come all these modern "good" 1911s are built tight and not loose?

Because /accuracy.

The original custom work on 1911s was 1) Better sights, 2) better trigger pulls and, 3) Tightening up the fit of the gun to increase / improve accuracy, usually via the "hard fit" method, which is essentially fit it until it barely functions and use a "break in" period to allow wear to achieve a perfect final fit.

Since you are in the SF bay area do some google searches on Bob Chow and John Jardine, two old school 1911 smiths from the bay area.

[rojocorsa]

Because /accuracy.

The original custom work on 1911s was 1) Better sights, 2) better trigger pulls and, 3) Tightening up the fit of the gun to increase / improve accuracy, usually via the "hard fit" method, which is essentially fit it until it barely functions and use a "break in" period to allow wear to achieve a perfect final fit.

Since you are in the SF bay area do some google searches on Bob Chow and John Jardine, two old school 1911 smiths from the bay area.


HCM, how does this type of tightness in these more accurate pistols affect overall reliability?


I've heard that name before. I believe the original shop where he used to work out of finally closed its doors last October due to SF Board of Supervisors' regulations about videotaping customers.


As far as my gun, I emailed WC customer support, but they were not able to get me any real info on the build or specs of the gun. I tried. :/

[HCM]

HCM, how does this type of tightness in these more accurate pistols affect overall reliability?


I've heard that name before. I believe the original shop where he used to work out of finally closed its doors last October due to SF Board of Supervisors' regulations about videotaping customers.


As far as my gun, I emailed WC customer support, but they were not able to get me any real info on the build or specs of the gun. I tried. :/

Less tolerance of dirt and debris, greater need for lubrication.

A Wilson brings what it does because they are generally both accurate and reliable. It's pretty much: Cheap / Accurate / Reliable - pick any two.

[HopetonBrown]

I was at least the 3rd owner of my Wilson. Looked essentially new inside and out. Was $1,500 cheaper than a new one at the time.

I took a 1911 maintenance class from John Jardine a few years ago, he teaches them out of Reed's in Santa Clara and Bullseye in San Rafael. He now instructs with an organization called Defensive Accuracy. He was also a fellow student in a class I took last year.

[rojocorsa]

I was at least the 3rd owner of my Wilson. Looked essentially new inside and out. Was $1,500 cheaper than a new one at the time.

I took a 1911 maintenance class from John Jardine a few years ago, he teaches them out of Reed's in Santa Clara and Bullseye in San Rafael. He now instructs with an organization called Defensive Accuracy. He was also a fellow student in a class I took last year.


Same here, 3rd owner, and I practically spent roughly $1500 ish less by buying this weapon via private party. They have one at Elite Armory in Castro Valley, CA but it's going for $3600 OTD, and it doesn't have an ambi safety like mine. That's probably what sold me on it.

Nice to see someone else from the region.

[rojocorsa]

I did have one more question for now:

What's the deal with those blue shock buffers and such?

[farscott]

The idea behind the Shok-Buff is to reduce the impact the slide makes when cycling rearward, so the recoil feels softer and the frame and slide and frame experience less impact forces. There are two issues: 1) the slide travel is decreased by the thickness of the buffer, and 2) the buffers can come apart, causing stoppages. The buffers are wear items and should be inspected during cleaning.

On a self-defense gun, the buffer is not necessary and may be a liability. I do use them on a PPC gun with a tungsten full-length guide rod to reduce the chance of breaking the guide rod.

[rojocorsa]

The idea behind the Shok-Buff is to reduce the impact the slide makes when cycling rearward, so the recoil feels softer and the frame and slide and frame experience less impact forces. There are two issues: 1) the slide travel is decreased by the thickness of the buffer, and 2) the buffers can come apart, causing stoppages. The buffers are wear items and should be inspected during cleaning.

On a self-defense gun, the buffer is not necessary and may be a liability. I do use them on a PPC gun with a tungsten full-length guide rod to reduce the chance of breaking the guide rod.

Are the WC CQBs dimensions and slide travel etc designed in tandem with this part, or is it merely an add-on? I guess what I am trying to ask is if this is required on the Wilson.

Thanks.

[45dotACP]

No, it isn't required.

[SLG]

I try to stay out of these discussions, as you can see, everyone has an opinion and few of them seem to mesh.

Personally, I change my recoil and FP springs every 2000-2500 rds. Not more.

I use 7 rd wilson mags for best reliability.

I lube the gun well every 500 rds or so, and clean it every thousand or so. Basic cleaning.

Every 10,000 rds I detail strip it and clean it thoroughly.

I don't usually use shok buffs. The Wilson's are not designed around them, but Wilson created the first Shok buff (AFAIK), and is a believer in them. Draw your own conclusions about that.


Out of everyone contributing to this thread, I would listen to what Vickers has to say about the matter, and not feel the need to look further. If someone feels that Vicker's info is not worth following, that is a good indication that they don't know what they are doing.

[45dotACP]

http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/1911-User%27s-Guide.html

I'd bookmark this place...it's been very useful to me.

[HCM]

http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/1911-User%27s-Guide.html

I'd bookmark this place...it's been very useful to me.

Linked in post #5 - but it seems a clear pattern is emerging. :cool::rolleyes:

[45dotACP]

Doh...I'm late to the party I see :D

[rojocorsa]

Shot my new firearm today.

I left and went home from the range with that stupid-ass grin like when I first became interested in firearms as a teenager.

[rojocorsa]

Been having a good time with this pistol, but I want to bump this thread up again to ask something:

Over the last two sessions in which I've fired 150 or so rounds each, I've have some very random intermittent feedway stoppages. I was shooting my own reloads which have worked very well overall (5.4grs W231; 1.25" COAL; 230gr RN 'blue bullet'). In the first session three weeks ago, I had one feedway stoppage. In the 2nd and most recent session, I had three feedway stoppages.

Both of these happened using known good magazines.


Do I need to freak out? Or is it simply time for a new set of springs? The funny thing about the ones in the 2nd session is that they all occurred right around the beginning of the shoot and then I had no other problems.

What gives?

[L-2]

Been having a good time with this pistol, but I want to bump this thread up again to ask something:

Over the last two sessions in which I've fired 150 or so rounds each, I've have some very random intermittent feedway stoppages. I was shooting my own reloads which have worked very well overall (5.4grs W231; 1.25" COAL; 230gr RN 'blue bullet'). In the first session three weeks ago, I had one feedway stoppage. In the 2nd and most recent session, I had three feedway stoppages.

Both of these happened using known good magazines.


Do I need to freak out? Or is it simply time for a new set of springs? The funny thing about the ones in the 2nd session is that they all occurred right around the beginning of the shoot and then I had no other problems.

What gives?

Only you can speak for your own ammo.

At ~2500+ rounds on a recoil spring I'll start to get malfunctions. I don't know how many rounds or what spring weight you have in your CQB.

Everybody is different on this, but I clean my extractor and extractor tunnel each time after I shoot. You might also do a tension check on that extractor. The case rim has to slide up the breech face and under the hook of the extractor without getting hung up at all for proper feeding.

[JSGlock34]

My new Wilson 1911 is approaching 2,000 rounds, and I'll be replacing the stock recoil spring with the Wilson Combat flat wire kit (http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Flat-Wire-Recoil-Spring-Kit-5-Full-Size-45-ACP-Chrome-Silicon-17-Lb/productinfo/614/). I figure by the time I need to replace that spring, I'll be sending the pistol back to Berryville for a refresh anyway. And while I'm hardly concerned about the cumulative cost of recoil springs, by my math the flat wire kit pays for itself in under 10,000 rounds.

[BillSWPA]

Only you can speak for your own ammo.

At ~2500+ rounds on a recoil spring I'll start to get malfunctions. I don't know how many rounds or what spring weight you have in your CQB.

Everybody is different on this, but I clean my extractor and extractor tunnel each time after I shoot. You might also do a tension check on that extractor. The case rim has to slide up the breech face and under the hook of the extractor without getting hung up at all for proper feeding.

Very good information here. The importance of cleaning the extractor channel with every cleaning cannot be overemphasized.

In addition to extractor tension, magazine condition, and recoil spring condition, I would also check the fit between the extractor and firing pin stop. Less than perfect fit can cause very slim gut rotation of the extractor, which can cause problems. I would be very surprised if that were the issue on a Wilson, but it could happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rojocorsa]

Thank you.

Per the seller I bought it from, it had 500 give or take fired through it. I know I've easily put more than 500 through it myself. My estimated round count is probably around 1200-1500 give or take.

Thank you for the heads up about the extractor areas and all that.

Overall this is a fantastic gun and I am happy with it. If there is anything I could change about it, it would be the sights. (Personal preference).