Herpestes edwardsii

[Jim Watson]

Nighthawk now offers a Korth revolver for a mere $3499.
It has a cutout hammer and slanted thumb latch like the ugly Sky Marshal but the rest looks traditional Korth. Which would make it an economy model of the brand, at least compared to the Classic with its asking prices of $5000 and up.

Do they call it a Mongoose because it will eat up a similarly high priced Snake?

http://www.nighthawkcustom.com/pistols/korth-revolvers/mongoose-357#slide-2

I guess rubber grips kept the price down, eh?

[Hizzie]

That thing is Rumplefugly. Hogue's on a $3500???

[mtnbkr]

Are Korths really that good? $3500 will get you a nice custom job from most of the "big names" and probably be more recognizable by the average joe as a high-end custom than Korth.

Chris

[BillSWPA]

I like the way it looks, prefer rubber grips on my revolvers, and particularly like the DLC finish. However, $3,500 is more than I have seen Pythons sell for.

[Jim Watson]

Here is a Python with actual bids up to $3500.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=558337949

Here is an uncommon three inch with actual bids over $7500.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=557298481

Neither is up to Reserve, those people think they are going to get rich.

On the other hand, here is a penny auction over $6000
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=556101593

And a plain vanilla gun already up to $3280 with no reserve.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=554628863

There are others in the high twos and some way on up there with high bids short of ambitious reserves.

Point is, there are probably people out there with enough spare money to be interested in an even more exclusive revolver.

Are we seeing signs of saturation in the boutique 1911 market?
NH has Brownings and now Korths; Wilson is doing well with Berettas and now offers a dedicated PCC.

[Nephrology]

Korths are nice, but hogue grips.... WTF

[coconutdave]

I'll stick to my Rugers, thanks.:rolleyes:

[Robinson]

Korths are nice, but hogue grips.... WTF

It makes me wonder if Hogue produced a new grip for this gun or does the gun have S&W grip dimensions? If the latter, that means lots of good grips/stocks will be available.

[Nephrology]

It makes me wonder if Hogue produced a new grip for this gun or does the gun have S&W grip dimensions? If the latter, that means lots of good grips/stocks will be available.

It's a German gun.... the odds of them not requiring proprietary grips are quite low.

[zeleny]

I fired the Korth-badged versions of these revolvers at this year’s SHOT Show. There were some teething problems with some of the guns on the stand, but the ones that worked did a good job of approximating the feel of what Korth Lollar calls its Classic line, at half the price. Compared to the Ratzeburg originals, it is a different design wherein the cylinder rotates the wrong way, with its latch moved from the back to the side; made of different materials, i.e. CNC billet rather than ground forgings. Also, according to Korth, the National Standard is designed to minimize hand-fitting. They seem to be angling for what Manurhin did with its MR93, as accurately and enthusiastically reviewed by Emmanuel Baechler (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.guns/ilIKCoID3bY/-RM70bHvGKoJ) some 20 years ago. Of course, that futuristic revolver was a “clean sheet” design adapted for casting technologies, not a simplification of an existing design for CNC manufacture. Also, whereas Manurhin got out of the gun-building business as a result of banking on the MR93 just as “wondernines” came to dominate the administrative procurement market, Korth Lollar has a better chance of enduring within the sport shooting niche.

[zeleny]

It makes me wonder if Hogue produced a new grip for this gun or does the gun have S&W grip dimensions? If the latter, that means lots of good grips/stocks will be available.The latter it is (http://www.korth-waffen.de/en/models.html), for the L frame round butt.

[Nephrology]

The latter it is (http://www.korth-waffen.de/en/models.html), for the L frame round butt.

Well, there goes my foot right into my mouth.

[jh9]

For better or worse I can see myself buying the mongoose. I make no apologies. But this shit right here:

http://www.nighthawkcustom.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1800x/9a05e486223f6fa0bb1e064fe361d753/s/u/super_sport-001b.jpg

This is 'smoking bath salts out of an improvised crack pipe made from a light bulb and some aluminum foil' levels of fuckery. There's just no other way this happened.

Korth Exec 1: Hans, ve need zee American dollars.
Korth Exec 2: *huffing furiously on pipe*
KE1: HANS!
KE2: VHAT?
KE1: American dollars.
KE2: Ze Americans like "tactical".
KE1: *huffing furiously on pipe*
KE2: Ve put ze rails on it
KE1: Ze rails?
KE2: *exhales voluminous plume of insanity*
KE1: ya...ze rails...
KE2: *takes several hits from bathsaltpipe*
KE1: maybe...on...ze barrel?
KE2: ZE BARREL ITSELF IS RAILS
KE1: *looks at pipe* Maybe not...
KE2: YA ZE BARREL IS RAILS
KE1: Ya ok ze barrel is rails *licks bathsalt wrapper*

[Kirk]

Sadly enough, I might buy this.

[entropy]

Yuk.
Yuk.

(Had to say it twice because I got a message stating that saying it once was too short to post.)

[Totem Polar]

I could see myself enjoying the 3" tubed mongoose, as the specs tick most of my boxes. With fewer good smiths working on wheelies, long waits for the ones that do, and S&W fully committed to primarily supporting new guns with holes in the side, this Nighthawk could be an option. If Colt were to start making Pythons again and having them tuned via custom shop, they'd be in the same ballpark. Not everyone wants another Ruger tuned by Gemini (not that I'd turn my nose up at one myself, of course).

[Bigghoss]

I don't even drive $3500 trucks so I don't think I'll be buying a $3500 revolver.

[jh9]

More seriously, are these made by Korth, made by Nighthawk on Korth-provided tooling, a new Korth design made by Nighthawk simply "under license" or something else?

[45dotACP]

I'll stick to my Rugers, thanks.:rolleyes:
Well, you could buy five or six of them for the price of one korth so....

[RevolverRob]

For better or worse I can see myself buying the mongoose. I make no apologies. But this shit right here:

http://www.nighthawkcustom.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1800x/9a05e486223f6fa0bb1e064fe361d753/s/u/super_sport-001b.jpg

This is 'smoking bath salts out of an improvised crack pipe made from a light bulb and some aluminum foil' levels of fuckery. There's just no other way this happened.

Korth Exec 1: Hans, ve need zee American dollars.
Korth Exec 2: *huffing furiously on pipe*
KE1: HANS!
KE2: VHAT?
KE1: American dollars.
KE2: Ze Americans like "tactical".
KE1: *huffing furiously on pipe*
KE2: Ve put ze rails on it
KE1: Ze rails?
KE2: *exhales voluminous plume of insanity*
KE1: ya...ze rails...
KE2: *takes several hits from bathsaltpipe*
KE1: maybe...on...ze barrel?
KE2: ZE BARREL ITSELF IS RAILS
KE1: *looks at pipe* Maybe not...
KE2: YA ZE BARREL IS RAILS
KE1: Ya ok ze barrel is rails *licks bathsalt wrapper*

Nope. I'd buy it. Seriously.


I don't even drive $3500 trucks so I don't think I'll be buying a $3500 revolver.

I don't drive a $3500 truck, either. But I'll still buy a $3500 revolver. Wouldn't be the first time the cost of the gear I was carrying was more than double what my car costs. I used to drive around in a $1250 Mustang with pocket knife that costs what the car did. By the time I added my wrist watch, gun, flashlight, custom holsters, etc. I was well over the double the cost of the car...


More seriously, are these made by Korth, made by Nighthawk on Korth-provided tooling, a new Korth design made by Nighthawk simply "under license" or something else?

Indeed, inquiring minds do want to know the answer to this.


Well, you could buy five or six of them for the price of one korth so....

That is true, but you'll still be the only gun hipster on your block with a Korth. And sometimes that's all that matters.

[BillSWPA]

Well, you could buy five or six of them for the price of one korth so....

If in fact the Korth is truly better by enough to justify its cost (and I am in no position to say whether or not that is the case), then if I had that kind of money budgeted, I would rather have one really nice gun than several not as nice guns.

[JAD]

is 'smoking bath salts out of an improvised crack pipe made from a light bulb and some aluminum foil' levels of fuckery.

We should hang out.

[Totem Polar]

I used to drive around in a $1250 Mustang with pocket knife that costs what the car did.
We should hang out.

[Super77]

KE2: YA ZE BARREL IS RAILS


That killed me right there!

[zeleny]

For better or worse I can see myself buying the mongoose. I make no apologies. But this shit right here:

http://www.nighthawkcustom.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1800x/9a05e486223f6fa0bb1e064fe361d753/s/u/super_sport-001b.jpg

This is 'smoking bath salts out of an improvised crack pipe made from a light bulb and some aluminum foil' levels of fuckery. There's just no other way this happened.

Korth Exec 1: Hans, ve need zee American dollars.
Korth Exec 2: *huffing furiously on pipe*
KE1: HANS!
KE2: VHAT?
KE1: American dollars.
KE2: Ze Americans like "tactical".
KE1: *huffing furiously on pipe*
KE2: Ve put ze rails on it
KE1: Ze rails?
KE2: *exhales voluminous plume of insanity*
KE1: ya...ze rails...
KE2: *takes several hits from bathsaltpipe*
KE1: maybe...on...ze barrel?
KE2: ZE BARREL ITSELF IS RAILS
KE1: *looks at pipe* Maybe not...
KE2: YA ZE BARREL IS RAILS
KE1: Ya ok ze barrel is rails *licks bathsalt wrapper*It’s the barrel shroud whence its muzzle peeks out.

[zeleny]

If in fact the Korth is truly better by enough to justify its cost (and I am in no position to say whether or not that is the case), then if I had that kind of money budgeted, I would rather have one really nice gun than several not as nice guns.The quality of the original Ratzeburg models speaks for itself (http://larvatus.livejournal.com/401890.html). This is the base matte finished model made in 1985.

7924
7925
7926
7927

[Bigghoss]

I don't drive a $3500 truck, either. But I'll still buy a $3500 revolver. Wouldn't be the first time the cost of the gear I was carrying was more than double what my car costs. I used to drive around in a $1250 Mustang with pocket knife that costs what the car did. By the time I added my wrist watch, gun, flashlight, custom holsters, etc. I was well over the double the cost of the car...


Back in 2011 I drove a $400 car and carried a pair of glocks and a ZT0350. My watch was only $7 though. I miss that car.

[JonInWA]

I fired the Korth-badged versions of these revolvers at this year’s SHOT Show. There were some teething problems with some of the guns on the stand, but the ones that worked did a good job of approximating the feel of what Korth Lollar calls its Classic line, at half the price. Compared to the Ratzeburg originals, it is a different design wherein the cylinder rotates the wrong way, with its latch moved from the back to the side; made of different materials, i.e. CNC billet rather than ground forgings. Also, according to Korth, the National Standard is designed to minimize hand-fitting. They seem to be angling for what Manurhin did with its MR93, as accurately and enthusiastically reviewed by Emmanuel Baechler (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.guns/ilIKCoID3bY/-RM70bHvGKoJ) some 20 years ago. Of course, that futuristic revolver was a “clean sheet” design adapted for casting technologies, not a simplification of an existing design for CNC manufacture. Also, whereas Manurhin got out of the gun-building business as a result of banking on the MR93 just as “wondernines” came to dominate the administrative procurement market, Korth Lollar has a better chance of enduring within the sport shooting niche.

Michael, I'm always impressed with your knowledge and postings. Let me pick your brain on this one-Why in the world did Manurhin feel compelled to replace the Ruger exceptionally strong and easily field-strippable Security/Service/Speed Six frame with a traditional sideplate frame when Manurhin and Ruger had their joint police revolver (the RMR, I believe) and the subsequent Manurhin F1? My recollection was that Ruger provided the frames and action components, and Manurhin provided the barrels and cylinders, at least on the RMRs.

Best, Jon

[zeleny]

Michael, I'm always impressed with your knowledge and postings. Let me pick your brain on this one-Why in the world did Manurhin feel compelled to replace the Ruger exceptionally strong and easily field-strippable Security/Service/Speed Six frame with a traditional sideplate frame when Manurhin and Ruger had their joint police revolver (the RMR, I believe) and the subsequent Manurhin F1? My recollection was that Ruger provided the frames and action components, and Manurhin provided the barrels and cylinders, at least on the RMRs.

Best, JonThanks for your kind reading, Jon. The best I can tell, Manurhin wanted to simplify maintenance. Ruger provided parts only for the RMR (http://larvatus.livejournal.com/292291.html); all subsequent models were 100% French. The best guns in this investment cast lineage are the MR93 and MR96.

[NEPAKevin]

Point is, there are probably people out there with enough spare money to be interested in an even more exclusive revolver.
.

There are probably people who want nothing less than a Korth, to stuff in their Birkin Bags.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkin_bag)

[zeleny]

There are probably people who want nothing less than a Korth, to stuff in their Birkin Bags. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkin_bag)When you have played with mechanisms long enough, you come to realize that their total cost of ownership is the only cost that matters. I buy Swiss, French, and German guns in Switzerland, France, and Germany. I have owned dozens of Korth revolvers. Not one of them cost me more than the going rate for a comparable Colt Python. Their current resale value is more than twice that, pushing their total cost of ownership in the negative four digits.

Would I buy a Nighthawk-branded Korth revolver? Probably not. Not when I can get two Ratzeburg originals for the price of one of their lower-tier Lollar successors. But shooters who cannot maintain their firearms are better off buying new guns covered by their manufacturers’ warranties. Given this preference, I have no doubt that these revolvers represent a real upgrade in quality from their contemporary S&W and Ruger counterparts.

[jh9]

Would I buy a Nighthawk-branded Korth revolver?

Sorry if this has been asked elsewhere and I just haven't seen it, but can you share any thoughts on this:


More seriously, are these made by Korth, made by Nighthawk on Korth-provided tooling, a new Korth design made by Nighthawk simply "under license" or something else?

edit: The Nighthawk guns seem to be marked differently than the Korths from your link on page 2, though the design looks the same. These are marked Berryville, AK not Germany and have an NHK serial prefix.

I'm getting the impression these are made or at least assembled in the US. Do you know if this is correct?

[Jim Watson]

I doubt that.
It is hard to imagine Nighthawk tooling up to make revolvers.
Badge engineering.

[jh9]

I doubt that.
It is hard to imagine Nighthawk tooling up to make revolvers.
Badge engineering.

Hope so. I know guns have to be marked with maker or importer, but I'm not sure on the requirements for both. E.g. Glock will have "made in austria" for Austrian guns with Smyrna, GA as the US location. What is legally required I don't know off hand. If just the importer then the Nighthawk markings could be legit.

But then they also all had NHK0001 as opposed to the German gun serial numbers. Prototypes gonna prototype maybe...

[Totem Polar]

If one looks on the current Korth website, Nighthawk is listed as their sole US importer. The only question that remains is what Nighthawk does in terms of fluffing before stamping and selling. Probably a question for Nighthawk.

[45dotACP]

If in fact the Korth is truly better by enough to justify its cost (and I am in no position to say whether or not that is the case), then if I had that kind of money budgeted, I would rather have one really nice gun than several not as nice guns.

Well yeah, but you need a dry fire gun, a carry gun, and a "carry in case the police take my carry gun into evidence" gun...

Three is one and one is negative two or something right?

:D

[zeleny]

The Nighthawk guns seem to be marked differently than the Korths from your link on page 2, though the design looks the same. These are marked Berryville, AK not Germany and have an NHK serial prefix.

I'm getting the impression these are made or at least assembled in the US. Do you know if this is correct?I cannot tell one way or the other, except by noting that 2" revolvers aren’t importable under the ATF criteria.

[RevolverRob]

Well yeah, but you need a dry fire gun, a carry gun, and a "carry in case the police take my carry gun into evidence" gun...

Three is one and one is negative two or something right?

:D

I don't know about here in IL, but in Texas if you've been charged with a Class B Misdemeanor or above - you won't need a spare gun, because your permit is revoked. Now, if its seized as an investigation, but you are not charged then you might need a spare, but most people are charged quickly.