Cheap pocket pistol

[Duelist]

I know I'm probably opening myself up for mockery, but I bought a cheap gun yesterday. I was trolling the used rack at a local store and saw a tiny little pocket pistol. Looked like a KT P32. Yep, a finish worn, 1st gen P32. I did mention it was cheap, right? Well, it really was: $110 cheap. How could I leave it there? (Well, maybe if I had any self respect.)

Got a single box of ammo, and took it out and shot a few rounds through it before dark. Discovered that the light DAO trigger doesn't reset if you don't let it all the way out before you start pulling it again. Otherwise, it ran perfectly (for all 15 rounds I had time to shoot) and was reasonably accurate in spite of the "sights."

I showed it to my wife after we got home from work. Her response? "Duelist, that is a TOY!" I laid it down next to my 3913, and she continued, "It looks like the 5 year old's version!"

I'd shot one before. My brother has had one for fifteen years or so. They aren't the best guns in the world. But they are a reasonable NPE choice, backup gun choice, and are much more pleasant to shoot than similar .380 pistols, or a jframe loaded with +P instead of wadcutters. I spent some time surfing ktog today, a place I haven't frequented since I ditched my hard to shoot well P11 more than ten years ago. I like it here better, though, so posting about it here.

So. Mock away!

[BillSWPA]

No mockery here. Kel-Tec makes some nice pocket pistols, which are easy to shoot and a good value for the price, but they do have some quirks.

I strongly encourage replacing the standard 9 lb. recoil springs with Wolff 11 lb. springs. This will prevent failures to feed when the gun is loaded with 7+1, and the rim of the top round is in the groove of the round below it. The 9 lb. springs are insufficient to reliably overcome this condition, but the 11 lb. springs will overcome it every time.

Stick with the polymer guide rod, because the guide rod does need to bend a bit to keep from binding the slide.

DO NOT perform the "fluff and buff" procedure recommended elsewhere. It is a good way to take an in-spec gun out of spec.

Clean the pocket lint from around the hammer area every couple of weeks.

The only readily available improvement for the virtually nonexistent factory sights is a Crimson Trace LaserGuard. You will be amazed how well the gun can be shot when the laser is visible. Pocket holsters for this combination are readily available.

You may read about rimlock, wherein the rim of one round in the magazine gets behind the rim of the round below it. Do. It use spacers in the magazine to try to prevent this - the spacer will likely cause premature slide lock. My own experimentation with spacers and rimlock has led me to believe that when it occurs, it is almost always if not always when loading cartridges into the magazine. Load your magazines carefully, and you will never have a problem.

My P-32 is the gun I can most easily get my wife to carry, and it is one of the few pocket pistols I have seen above .22 or .25 caliber with truly comfortable recoil for the recoil-shy. It also makes a good NPE or BUG choice.

[Duelist]

Thanks, Bill. That is some useful advice. I plan to carry it, when I do, with FMJ ball, so I'm less worried about rim lock. I was planning to replace the recoil spring anyway, so I may as well try an 11# one.

[BillSWPA]

Some ammo that may be worth trying in a P-32. I have intended to try it myself but other priorities have gotten in the way.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=132

[Chuck Haggard]

I wouldn't really run anything loaded hot in a .32 that sized. Excessive slide velocity can be a real issue.

Standard .32 ball penetrates pretty decently. Pick the most reliable round you can find from your gun and go with that.

I'm needing to order some of this next to try out in my wife's .32; http://www.rareammo.com/Geco-32-ACP-73gr-FMJ_p_2100.html

[deputyG23]

I wouldn't really run anything loaded hot in a .32 that sized. Excessive slide velocity can be a real issue.

Standard .32 ball penetrates pretty decently. Pick the most reliable round you can find from your gun and go with that.

I'm needing to order some of this next to try out in my wife's .32; http://www.rareammo.com/Geco-32-ACP-73gr-FMJ_p_2100.html
I always thought that, in some respects, the 7.65 Browning could be equal to or superior to the .380 if ball ammo is used. More penetration, at least one more round in the magazine, and less recoil. If my wife would consider a semi-auto pistol for HD/SD. I would not rule out a quality .32 like the Beretta 81 series.

[SecondsCount]

I had one for about a year. Similar situation in that I picked it up for $100 and stashed in the the bottom of my handgun safe as a backup even though I never shot it. I ended up trading it to a friend that wanted one really bad and it ran fine for him.

[41magfan]

I'm not going to mock you, but I will just offer this as something to keep in mind;

I've seen at least two Kel-Tec .32/.380's puke .... not malfunction, but actually suffer part or component failure and neither pistol had been shot very much at all. KT Customer Service replaced both pistols without issue but I think we can all appreciate the lack of relevance.

I wouldn't - under any circumstance - shoot anything but standard loadings in either model.


(*Not to derail the thread, but the new street price these days for a brand new LCP is $200 ..... that's cheap, and they work without serious durability or reliability issues.)

[voodoo_man]

I've seen plenty of .32's kill people, same with .25's and .22's.

Hell I'd probably opt for a nice clear .22 BUG style pistol if I really needed something tiny.

[CCT125US]

A data point of one. KT P3AT is the only gun that spontaneously disassembled in a students hands. Fortunately there were no lasting injuries. I might suggest finding ammo it likes and then rarely shooting it. This is counter to the common practice of actually training with what you carry, but IMO certain tiny guns have a short life cycle. When my LCP hit 1000, I replaced every pin and spring, verified function and haven't shot it since. I wonder how much life she has left.

[BillSWPA]

I have not checked Ruger's offerings lately but I do not recall the LCP being offered in .32, so if a shooter wanted or needed the lower recoil of a .32 in a tilt-barrel format, Kel-Tec becomes the only choice. In .380, either is a good choice, but keep in mind that the Ruger, which is essentially a Kel-Tec clone, has been recalled while the Kel-Tec has not been recalled. The idea that Kel-Tec has lower quality is simply false.

I have over 1,500 rounds through mine. I replace the recoil springs in this and all other true pocket guns every few hundred rounds, and I have had to replace the firing pin spring and slide lock spring as well. With the exception of those springs, everything has been fine. Several hundred of those rounds have been Cor-Bon. When properly maintained, these guns will last.

Regarding the above mentioned Beretta .32, I understand it to share the same design as the similar .22 and .25 offerings, with the recoil springs in the grip frame rather than parallel with the barrel. The .22 version is not rated for hyper velocity .22, placing it below a Jiminez in terms of the ammo pressure it is officially rated for. I would have more confidence in the durability of a Kel-Tec .32 than a Beretta .32.

The difference between a full size semiauto and a true pocket gun is akin to the difference between a watch and a clock. The former is much harder to make run truly well. Kel-Tec managed this well ahead of some bigger name companies. I will NOT say they are without fault, but if one is willing to understand the quirks, they are among the best choices available in that size gun.

[Duelist]

When the LCP price dropped, I seriously thought about getting one, but the drawback for me remains: not really comfortable to shoot. The .32 is no powerhouse, but it is more pleasant to shoot in every gun I have tried it in vs the .380. When the LCP was $320+, I wasn't even interested. Rather buy a bunch of ammo for a gun I'll actually shoot than spend that much for a gun that would see so little carry and range time. It's a niche gun, really.

The Beretta 81 series Cheetah mentioned earlier and the 3032 Tomcat are very different guns. The 81 is about as full-size as a .32 or .380 wants to get. Nice guns, and there are reasons and people for whom they make all kinds of sense, but not pocket guns for anyone smaller than Paul Bunyan. The 3032 Tomcat takes their little tip-up barrel .22 and .25 design and beefs it up for the .32. It has a reported design life of a very few thousand rounds. I cannot remember the exact number, but am sure it was less than 5k. Might have been less than 3k. The 3032 is a nice size compared to the 81, but is significantly larger, thicker, and heavier at 15oz unloaded than the .22 and .25 models, or the P32. My 642 weighs 15oz, and if I need it to kick like a .32 instead of a +P .38, I can put bunny fart loads together to do that with easily, but what I can't do is make it the size, weight, and thickness of a small smartphone, whereas the P32, P3AT, and LCP are just about that size.

I thought about getting a P32 for years, but every one I saw, they wanted way too much for what it is. At $110, I could see doing it.l, and didn't take much thinking to decide to do it.

[GAP]

My cheap pocket pistol is a Kahr CW380 loaded with Federal FMJs. Almost strictly a dog walk or w/e gun when wearing athletic shorts. It works, allows me to have something on me and never had any malfunctions. I read about the horror stories on Kahr pistols prior to purchasing, but I actually liked their DA trigger compared to the other tiny pocket 380s.

Considering its the Internet and I find many people to be morons in real life, I decided to try it myself. ;)

[41magfan]

Some of the Kahr horror stories are real as I've experienced them first-hand. If you have a good one and like it, hold on to it!

[GAP]

Some of the Kahr horror stories are real as I've experienced them first-hand. If you have a good one and like it, hold on to it!

That seems to be the common advice.. If you manage to get a Kahr that works.. Keep it. :)

I rolled the dice, but (knock on wood) it's been good for about 400 rounds now. I've run Hornady, PMC and Federal through it without a hiccup.

[Al T.]

Got a P32 about 5 years back. It did need and responded well to a "fluff and bluff", which mainly consisted of polishing the interior of the slide bearing surfaces with emery cloth. Scored 4 or 5 boxes of Fiocchi FMJ and it runs fine. As a side note, about 6 years back an imported hoodlum tried to rob a local AA meeting and promptly ingested several .32 ACP bullets via a Kel-Tec. He bled out PDQ.

[60167]

Own a P3AT and LCP. Both are cheap. Both can run well. Being able to replace every part of the Kel Tec is a nice perk.

I commonly carry either when carrying a gun is not an option.

[RichY]

I wouldn't really run anything loaded hot in a .32 that sized. Excessive slide velocity can be a real issue.

Standard .32 ball penetrates pretty decently. Pick the most reliable round you can find from your gun and go with that.

I'm needing to order some of this next to try out in my wife's .32; http://www.rareammo.com/Geco-32-ACP-73gr-FMJ_p_2100.html

It runs very well in my wife's P-32. We've only fired 150-200 rounds so far, but is is very accurate and has been 100% reliable. We recently found two boxes of the older "silver" bullet Geco, and grabbed them up.

This is at least our fourth P-32, and every one of them have been reliable and accurate. The P-3AT was neither fun for her to shoot with her arthritic fingers, nor reliable.

[BillSWPA]

Like the P-32, the P3AT benefits from stronger recoil springs than the factory standard, although for different reasons. Standard is 11 lb., and Wolff 13 lb. springs solved all feeding issues with my gun.

The +0 magazine extension really helps maintain a solid grip. I tried the +1 as well. They do not provide quite as solid a grip, and result in noise from ammo rattling around in the magazine.

The P-32 does have a reputation for greater overall reliability than the P3AT, although both will run well when set up correctly.

[Nephrology]

The idea that Kel-Tec has lower quality is simply false.


I dunno... I have been exposed to several Kel-Tecs via my friend who has a weird love of them. Of the 4 that the purchased while we were still in the same state, 3 of them either came out of the box with serious issues or very quickly developed them with moderate use. YMMV but you couldn't pay me to own one.

[Hizzie]

I had an early P32 as a pocket gun years ago. Local jeweler installed a gold bead in the front sight. Never had issues with it. Ran S&B ammo.

[BillSWPA]

In addition to my two guns, I have three friends with P3ATs, all of which run well, and none of which has had any problems.

[RichY]

I have not checked Ruger's offerings lately but I do not recall the LCP being offered in .32, so if a shooter wanted or needed the lower recoil of a .32 in a tilt-barrel format, Kel-Tec becomes the only choice. In .380, either is a good choice, but keep in mind that the Ruger, which is essentially a Kel-Tec clone, has been recalled while the Kel-Tec has not been recalled. The idea that Kel-Tec has lower quality is simply false.

I have over 1,500 rounds through mine. I replace the recoil springs in this and all other true pocket guns every few hundred rounds, and I have had to replace the firing pin spring and slide lock spring as well. With the exception of those springs, everything has been fine. Several hundred of those rounds have been Cor-Bon. When properly maintained, these guns will last.

Regarding the above mentioned Beretta .32, I understand it to share the same design as the similar .22 and .25 offerings, with the recoil springs in the grip frame rather than parallel with the barrel. The .22 version is not rated for hyper velocity .22, placing it below a Jiminez in terms of the ammo pressure it is officially rated for. I would have more confidence in the durability of a Kel-Tec .32 than a Beretta .32.

The difference between a full size semiauto and a true pocket gun is akin to the difference between a watch and a clock. The former is much harder to make run truly well. Kel-Tec managed this well ahead of some bigger name companies. I will NOT say they are without fault, but if one is willing to understand the quirks, they are among the best choices available in that size gun.

We had two early Beretta 3032 Tomcats for awhile, but dumped them long ago. The actions on them were much better than the newer ones we've seen the last few years. The problem I had was shooting weak hand only. Every single time I fired it left handed, the magazine release on the lower grip would be pressed enough under recoil to drop the magazine, making it a single shot pistol.