OlongJohnson
05-13-2016, 09:01 PM
8mm SSC (Single Stack Carry)
or
8x(whatever)
or
.32 Carbine Short
Before anyone says this belongs in the ammo/reloading forum, I put it here because the idea is about the pistol that would be enabled by the round, not the round itself.
Basic idea:
Many states limit magazine capacity to 10 rounds. Carrying a double-stack frame with a magazine blocked to neuter it is silly and annoying. It would be better to carry a single-stack frame and gain a less printy grip. However, the 9mm single-stacks are all limited to 9 or fewer rounds, which is aggravatingly non-optimized.
A potential solution is a smaller-diameter cartridge. Unfortunately, most of the .32 caliber (.312 bullet diameter) cartridges are evolved from the black powder era, and operate at very low pressures, such as 11-14ksi. Most of them are rimmed, too. This includes .32 S&W Long, .32 Auto, etc. These just don’t get the pressure up, and they use too-light bullets. They are in serious danger of not getting the job done when needed.
It would seem that a cartridge using the 100-115 grain .312 bullets made for the .32 H&R and .327 Federal Magnum at velocities on par with (maybe midway between) the two from a four-inch barrel semi-auto should be pretty effective. Bullets made for the .327 FM expand well and can withstand impact at high velocities. The 100 grain sectional density is slightly greater than 124 grain 9mm bullets, and 115 grain is slightly greater than 147 grain 9mm. These should compare reasonably well in terminal effectiveness to 9mm, while being slightly flatter shooting. Perhaps a little more muzzle blast on short-barreled pistols, but likely less than .40S&W. You should be able to go with overall length similar to a .45 ACP. Smaller diameter with this length should feed super-reliably.
The .30 Carbine is SAAMI rated to 40ksi, nearly double the .32 H&R and nearly matching the .327 FM. It’s a longer, slightly tapered case that fires a .308 bullet. The rim diameter is ~.030” smaller than a 9x19 rim. Times 9, that frees up ~0.27” of space in the stack. Add about 0.10” and you have your tenth round. Some of that should be possible to organize at the top of the magazine, since the bore and cases are slightly smaller and the top-most round can ride higher in the frame. So basically, in the same grip geometry as 9 rounds of 9mm, you should be able to fit 10 rounds of this new cartridge.
Basically, trim the .30 Carbine case to whatever works out to be the desired length, then ream and/or expand it to fit the .312 bullets. The taper should mean that as it’s shortened, the diameter opens up and minimal reaming is required to gain the 0.004” necessary. This may be subject to the walls growing in thickness below the original bullet seating region, in which case more reaming, and perhaps a custom reamer to avoid a sharp step, would be required. Consider trimming a few thousandths (0.005” total, or 0.0025”/side) off the rim to ensure reliable, smooth feeding with no rims getting caught on each other.
To make the most of it would require a pistol designed around it, rather than adapted from existing models. I’d settle for DAO with restrike capability. A simple DAO, if it was very smooth and broke cleanly, would suffice, but an LEM/DAK type enhanced DAO would obviously be better. Use a 3.5-4” barrel. The barrel itself could be thinner-walled to hold the pressure with the smaller bore diameter, multiplying the slimming effect. The slide and frame could be fitted around the slimmer barrel, further enhancing concealability and carrying comfort in an IWB mode. The grip could be full-size from the side, but very slim to minimize printing. Focus on keeping it slim, kinda like the old S&W 39xx third-gens, but the DAO versions without the control lever warts.
A double-stack version may be able to get to the higher round counts, like 18 or 20, in a standard grip size without extended base plates.
It seems like the sort of project that would be ideally taken on by a partnership such as Ruger and Hornady, as they have had good success with the .204 Ruger and .375 Ruger cartridges already.
An extra-credit project for builders in free states might be to double-stack these rounds in a standard 1911 Officer frame.
I don't have the resources to make a complete, clean-sheet pistol design happen, so I thought I'd just leave this here and let people talk about it, hoping maybe someone who can do something cool sees it.
or
8x(whatever)
or
.32 Carbine Short
Before anyone says this belongs in the ammo/reloading forum, I put it here because the idea is about the pistol that would be enabled by the round, not the round itself.
Basic idea:
Many states limit magazine capacity to 10 rounds. Carrying a double-stack frame with a magazine blocked to neuter it is silly and annoying. It would be better to carry a single-stack frame and gain a less printy grip. However, the 9mm single-stacks are all limited to 9 or fewer rounds, which is aggravatingly non-optimized.
A potential solution is a smaller-diameter cartridge. Unfortunately, most of the .32 caliber (.312 bullet diameter) cartridges are evolved from the black powder era, and operate at very low pressures, such as 11-14ksi. Most of them are rimmed, too. This includes .32 S&W Long, .32 Auto, etc. These just don’t get the pressure up, and they use too-light bullets. They are in serious danger of not getting the job done when needed.
It would seem that a cartridge using the 100-115 grain .312 bullets made for the .32 H&R and .327 Federal Magnum at velocities on par with (maybe midway between) the two from a four-inch barrel semi-auto should be pretty effective. Bullets made for the .327 FM expand well and can withstand impact at high velocities. The 100 grain sectional density is slightly greater than 124 grain 9mm bullets, and 115 grain is slightly greater than 147 grain 9mm. These should compare reasonably well in terminal effectiveness to 9mm, while being slightly flatter shooting. Perhaps a little more muzzle blast on short-barreled pistols, but likely less than .40S&W. You should be able to go with overall length similar to a .45 ACP. Smaller diameter with this length should feed super-reliably.
The .30 Carbine is SAAMI rated to 40ksi, nearly double the .32 H&R and nearly matching the .327 FM. It’s a longer, slightly tapered case that fires a .308 bullet. The rim diameter is ~.030” smaller than a 9x19 rim. Times 9, that frees up ~0.27” of space in the stack. Add about 0.10” and you have your tenth round. Some of that should be possible to organize at the top of the magazine, since the bore and cases are slightly smaller and the top-most round can ride higher in the frame. So basically, in the same grip geometry as 9 rounds of 9mm, you should be able to fit 10 rounds of this new cartridge.
Basically, trim the .30 Carbine case to whatever works out to be the desired length, then ream and/or expand it to fit the .312 bullets. The taper should mean that as it’s shortened, the diameter opens up and minimal reaming is required to gain the 0.004” necessary. This may be subject to the walls growing in thickness below the original bullet seating region, in which case more reaming, and perhaps a custom reamer to avoid a sharp step, would be required. Consider trimming a few thousandths (0.005” total, or 0.0025”/side) off the rim to ensure reliable, smooth feeding with no rims getting caught on each other.
To make the most of it would require a pistol designed around it, rather than adapted from existing models. I’d settle for DAO with restrike capability. A simple DAO, if it was very smooth and broke cleanly, would suffice, but an LEM/DAK type enhanced DAO would obviously be better. Use a 3.5-4” barrel. The barrel itself could be thinner-walled to hold the pressure with the smaller bore diameter, multiplying the slimming effect. The slide and frame could be fitted around the slimmer barrel, further enhancing concealability and carrying comfort in an IWB mode. The grip could be full-size from the side, but very slim to minimize printing. Focus on keeping it slim, kinda like the old S&W 39xx third-gens, but the DAO versions without the control lever warts.
A double-stack version may be able to get to the higher round counts, like 18 or 20, in a standard grip size without extended base plates.
It seems like the sort of project that would be ideally taken on by a partnership such as Ruger and Hornady, as they have had good success with the .204 Ruger and .375 Ruger cartridges already.
An extra-credit project for builders in free states might be to double-stack these rounds in a standard 1911 Officer frame.
I don't have the resources to make a complete, clean-sheet pistol design happen, so I thought I'd just leave this here and let people talk about it, hoping maybe someone who can do something cool sees it.