P2000 Carry Pistol Setup and the v4.1 Conversion

[KG]

Here's a P2000 specific follow-on to the "Pre-travel reduction" thread started by HopetonBrown.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?20164-Pre-travel-reduction

I was impressed by the HK's I saw when I took Darryl and Wayne's HiTS First Responder Course. My P2000 was excellent right out of the box, but I made five modifications to make it even better for me - blacked out rear sights, TLG LEM springs, slim slide release lever set, and Combat Defensive Action Upgrade for LEM Pistols 4.1, and flat magazine floorplate. The modifications are simple to do; I could easily have done them myself or hired my local pistolsmith. However, since this is primarily a carry pistol, I hired an HK trained pistolsmith to make the internal changes. All that is remaining is replace the front sight.

My P2000 was V2 (heavy LEM) from the factory. The trigger pull was 8.4 lbs. Now it is 7.2 lbs. The subjective feel is lighter than that. The 4.1 modification moved the tip of the trigger back about 3-4mm. The trigger is in a more comfortable position for me because the tip is lower. My finger use to catch the tip of the trigger, now my finger naturally goes toward the middle of the trigger.

The hammer sticks out of the back of the slide more after the conversion.

Before:
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/P2000/P2000-1.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/P2000/P2000-1.jpg.html)

After:
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/P2000/P2000-2.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/P2000/P2000-2.jpg.html)

Hammer:
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/P2000/P2000-4.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/P2000/P2000-4.jpg.html)
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/P2000/P2000-4_1.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/P2000/P2000-4_1.jpg.html)

Any P2000 carry recommendations for me? Holsters, specific ammo, maintenance, etc?

I'll post a few more pictures later.

[LSP972]

Good explanation of what the "4.1 kit" actually does. All the previous "reviews" I've read were rather muddy and made me think it wasn't of much use.

Moot point for me anyway, since I'm dedicated to the USPc and HK45C (which have a shorter reset and just fit me better), but I do still have a couple of P2000s, and my wife was big into them until the P30 appeared.

As to your questions: holsters are an entirely subjective matter. Sorry, can't help you there, as what works for me might not work for you, etc. OWB, IWB, leather, kydex, hybrid, whatever... the world is yours. You just gotta try a bunch of different types/styles.

Ammo: its an HK. It will eat pretty much any quality factory or reloaded ammunition you feed it. The polygonal barrels on these guns are extraordinarily accurate, but I would suggest staying away from non-jacketed (i.e., lead) bullets unless they are of high quality and you are meticulous about keeping your bore clean. I have shot thousands of lead bullet reloads (my reloads) through our HKs, using "coated" bullets at moderate velocities, with no issues. I run a BoreSnake through the barrel every 100 rounds, and thoroughly clean the bore after the session.

Maintenance: again, superlative qualities here. The HK service pistols- the "modern" ones (USP series, P2000/P30 series, HK45 series)- will run quite a large number of rounds while dry and dirty. Not the best idea, but you can do it. I have identical practice pistols for my carry guns, and while I do keep them well-lubricated, I don't clean them much unless I've shot lead through one. One time, on a whim, I went almost a thousand rounds on one of my HK45 compacts before it started to choke occasionally. FWIW, I use grease on the practice guns, as it "lasts" longer than oil.

HK recommends you change the springs at 10K-15K. I did that on my high-time pistols; and kept the old springs, just in case.

My wife and I have 13 HK pistols- multiple examples of just a few types- and have been using the brand together for over ten years. It just doesn't get any better than HK, as far as we are concerned. And we've been down the Glock & Sig road... so we know the difference. Welcome to the fold.

.

[GJM]

All we need to make this thread complete is the before and after photo. You know the one with Keith or YVK frowning with the stock trigger and then, afterwards, smiling holding the new, improved 4.1 modified HK.

[KG]

I would be smiling in both pictures. I like the 4.1 and prefer it, but I would also have been happy without it. The slim slide release lever kit was not worth $79.

LSP972 - thanks for the info. I was surprised by the accuracy. I'd also prefer a shorter reset.

[YVK]

The slim slide release lever kit was not worth $79.

I assume bought from HKParts.net?

I am waiting on all my HKs to come back from with 4.1 conversion. So far our cumulative PF experience suggests that pre-travel redux is a bit less than it was "advertised" on teh web. MikeC also reported hammer sticking out a little more and somehow that bothers me.

[chiral]

Great write up! I ended up picking up a P2000 V2 LEM on the trading forums here shortly after the HiTS class as well. It's a great gun and LEM is a much better trigger than I thought. If you don't mind can you PM me the name of your HK smith? I'm looking to have some work done on another pistol of mine. Thanks!

[Jackdog]

Will the V4.1 work on the P2000SK? Thanks.

[Dave J]

Good info. Can you quantify how far back the break point is compared to the V2?

[LSP972]

... LEM is a much better trigger than I thought.

That's usually the discovery when one takes the time to work with it a bit. ;)

.

[Dagga Boy]

I am actually carrying a P30SK a lot right now and I will be putting a V4.1 kit in it to try.

[chl442]

I'm so about to order 3 kits for my P2000s. Along with recoil spring assemblies after my range P2000's recoil spring decided to basically disinigrate yesterday after about the 15K mark. Was still cool that it ran , just had to push the gun back into battery and fire. The gun made it through a Vickers 300 in its current state. A true testament to how well HK pistols are built.

Chris

[LSP972]

OP, forgot to mention... you need one of these. Makes a different (better) gun out of it.

Drop-in fit, easy-peasy.

http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Extended-Magazine-Release-For-HK-Pistols-213p1669.htm

.

[Mike C]

I assume bought from HKParts.net?

I am waiting on all my HKs to come back from with 4.1 conversion. So far our cumulative PF experience suggests that pre-travel redux is a bit less than it was "advertised" on teh web. MikeC also reported hammer sticking out a little more and somehow that bothers me.

It bugs the hell out of me to, but I am noticing a quantifiable difference in WHO and SHO performance due to the difference in pretravel, (though slight) and ideal trigger finger placement.

[psalms144.1]

And, for anyone planning on buying HK parts - do yourself a favor and contact HK USA directly first. If they have what you need, it will save you a LOT of money, and they're super friendly/helpful.

[LSP972]

And, for anyone planning on buying HK parts - do yourself a favor and contact HK USA directly first. If they have what you need, it will save you a LOT of money, and they're super friendly/helpful.

Indeed; I forgot to tack that on the post. Was rushing to get out the door and had a brain fade.

I just bought a LEM kit, a firing pin (new style), firing pin block, and an OEM .40 barrel for a vintage USPc in .357 Sig I picked up last week. HK/USA had it all. The same parts, from HKParts.net, would have been well over $100 more than I paid.

.

[KG]

I assume bought from HKParts.net?

All of the parts from HKParts.net so far. Thanks psalms144.1 for the suggestion to try HK first.

Jackdog - I'm not sure about the P200SK. HKParts.net lists that kit under the P2000SK, so there is a good chance it fits.

Dave J - The break seems to be about the same place to me. The only change is in the initial trigger position as far as I can tell. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Is there any disadvantage to installing the larger magazine release?

[KG]

I am actually carrying a P30SK a lot right now and I will be putting a V4.1 kit in it to try.

I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say about it.

[KG]

Rounding the backstrap helped conceal the heal of the pistol without altering the frame. I may take more off.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/P2000/P2000-5_1.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/P2000/P2000-5_1.jpg.html)

[KG]

I'm so about to order 3 kits for my P2000s. Along with recoil spring assemblies after my range P2000's recoil spring decided to basically disinigrate yesterday after about the 15K mark. Was still cool that it ran , just had to push the gun back into battery and fire. The gun made it through a Vickers 300 in its current state. A true testament to how well HK pistols are built.

Chris

I read all of Todd Green's P30 articles on Pistol-Training.com and was impressed by how well his HK ran when it was not in perfect condition.

What holster were you using at the HiTS First Responder class? I liked the way you ran your P2000.

[jc000]

Any P2000 carry recommendations for me? Holsters, specific ammo, maintenance, etc?

Thanks for write-up, Keith I've been looking for some good info on the V4.1 modification.

For carry I've been using a CCC Shaggy (AIWB) which really works well for me, even in tshirts / shorts. As far as carry ammo goes 147 grain HST has been 100% reliable for the few hundred rounds of it I've run through my P2000. I haven't shot anyone with it yet though so I can't tell you how well it works in that regard!

[chl442]

I read all of Todd Green's P30 articles on Pistol-Training.com and was impressed by how well his HK ran when it was not in perfect condition.

What holster were you using at the HiTS First Responder class? I liked the way you ran your P2000. You're one of the reasons I decided to buy one.

Thanks Keith.
I like how you rounded out the backstrap on your P2000 I may give that a try !
For the HITS course I was using a JM Custom Kydex AIWB holster , no sweat guard , extra tuck.
I tend to use Kydex for extended practice sessions and don't use an undershirt as its one less piece of clothing that could find its way into the trigger guard on a reholster, even though I trap the hammer with my thumb when I reholster it's just one more way I mitigate risk.
For daily CCW , I tend to use my Garrity Invictus more than anything as I like the comfort of leather. I've also have some of John Ralston's 5 shot SME's on order for my P2000s and my HK45C's as I've had good luck with that rig when I appendix carried Glock 19s in the past. I will use Kydex for CCW out on the boat
as I like to keep my leather gear out of the salt water. That may be one advantage of choosing and sticking with Kydex for everything.

Chris

[Dagga Boy]

I read all of Todd Green's P30 articles on Pistol-Training.com and was impressed by how well his HK ran when it was not in perfect condition.

What holster were you using at the HiTS First Responder class? I liked the way you ran your P2000.

Watching a athletic and good shooter run a gun like the P2000 from a good AIWB rig is always impressive.

[NCmtnman]

Any thoughts on the hammer being placed further back? I wondered if there is a chance of debris making it's way under the hammer and down into the slide or firing pin channel. Anyways, it annoys me for some reason and gives me pause.

[jc000]

The hammer is only back when cocked, correct? I noticed the normal hammer even does that a little bit now…

[ffhounddog]

I traded my Glock 17 for a P2000sk yesterday because I shoot my P2000 a lot and since getting the threaded barrel for my 19 I never use it.

I can see myself spending a whole lot on sights and at least 2 v4.1 kits.

[CCT125US]

Is there any disadvantage to installing the larger magazine release?

Depending on hand size and grip technique it could be an issue. I was working on different ways to put pressure into the gun and one method gave me very bad Glock knuckle. Think broken and bleeding in a 30 minute dry fire session. And that was on a well established callous. On my Sk it is a no go, because when I insert the mag, my pinky goes with it. On the stock release, I am forced to shift my grip which negates the problem.

[Prdator]

Just FYI we have a Keeper for the P2000 ready to go..

[Prdator]

Just FYI we have a Keeper for the P2000 ready to go..

SO that didn't take long... Thanks guys!!!

[KG]

SO that didn't take long... Thanks guys!!!

I placed an order this afternoon, but not sure if I got the one in stock or not.

I'll be at Earnest's OKC class next month. Looking forward to meeting you.

[Prdator]

I placed an order this afternoon, but not sure if I got the one in stock or not.

I'll be at Earnest's OKC class next month. Looking forward to meeting you.

Im pretty sure you did.

Awesome!!! glad your gonna make that.

[KG]

Thanks Keith.
I like how you rounded out the backstrap on your P2000 I may give that a try !
For the HITS course I was using a JM Custom Kydex AIWB holster , no sweat guard , extra tuck.
I tend to use Kydex for extended practice sessions and don't use an undershirt as its one less piece of clothing that could find its way into the trigger guard on a reholster, even though I trap the hammer with my thumb when I reholster it's just one more way I mitigate risk.
For daily CCW , I tend to use my Garrity Invictus more than anything as I like the comfort of leather. I've also have some of John Ralston's 5 shot SME's on order for my P2000s and my HK45C's as I've had good luck with that rig when I appendix carried Glock 19s in the past. I will use Kydex for CCW out on the boat
as I like to keep my leather gear out of the salt water. That may be one advantage of choosing and sticking with Kydex for everything.

Chris

I appreciate the advice. I'd like to have a hand-made leather holster, but probably after I figure out exactly what I like.


Any thoughts on the hammer being placed further back? I wondered if there is a chance of debris making it's way under the hammer and down into the slide or firing pin channel. Anyways, it annoys me for some reason and gives me pause.

There is a gap. It doesn't really concern me with how I plan to use the pistol. I will post a few more pictures that show the amount of gap.

I like your screen name. I've shot a couple dozen deer with flintlocks and have bought many muzzleloader parts from Jim Chambers in Asheville, NC.


The hammer is only back when cocked, correct? I noticed the normal hammer even does that a little bit now…

You're exactly right. The hammer is only in the forward position after pressing the trigger on an empty chamber or after a misfire. All other times it is in the farther back position. I guess you could call that "cocked". Or, at least "pre-cocked". Maybe nyeti can comment on that. It seems much farther back after the 4.1 conversion, but I did not take a picture before the conversion that I can compare it to.

[KG]

Im pretty sure you did.

Awesome!!! glad your gonna make that.

I've wanted to train with Ernest for a long time. I really appreciate you guys hosting him in OKC.

[KG]

Any thoughts on the hammer being placed further back? I wondered if there is a chance of debris making it's way under the hammer and down into the slide or firing pin channel. Anyways, it annoys me for some reason and gives me pause.

Here's some more hammer pictures after the 4.1 conversion with a flash so you can see the gap:

Hammer forward
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/P2000/P2000-14.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/P2000/P2000-14.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/P2000/P2000-13.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/P2000/P2000-13.jpg.html)


Hammer aft
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/P2000/P2000-12.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/P2000/P2000-12.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/P2000/P2000-10_1.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/P2000/P2000-10_1.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/P2000/P2000-9.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/P2000/P2000-9.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/P2000/P2000-11.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/P2000/P2000-11.jpg.html)

I like the 4.1 because the trigger is in a more comfortable position than it was before the mod. Slightly less pre-travel is fine, but not as important to me. I'll live with the hammer position.

I prefer the TLG springs with the 4.1 mod. In reality, any configuration would be fine. I would chose the LEM P2000 again regardless of whether it was V1, V2, TLG with or without the 4.1.

jc000 - I shot some 147 HST this weekend. Worked great, thanks.

[KPD]

My wife has a P2000 LEM that she mostly keeps as a house gun. Her preferred pistol is an RTF2 Glock 22.

Thanks to this thread I have been checking out the P2000 more closely. I have pretty well decided that if she won't let me have her HK I will be getting another P2000 as soon as I pay off the P30SK I have ordered.

P2000s are pretty easy to find nearby for around $500 used.

[Buckshot]

Any thoughts on the hammer being placed further back? I wondered if there is a chance of debris making it's way under the hammer and down into the slide or firing pin channel. Anyways, it annoys me for some reason and gives me pause.

We got away with a whole lot larger gap than that on 1911s & BHPs for a long time with no troubles (unless you were a Delta guy fast-roping into Mog' w/ a bunch of rotor wash stirring up the "pristine landscape"). I personally don't see any problem on that front unless you open carry in the sand.

I handled Keith's 4.1 mod twice now & agree completely with him about positioning the finger in a more comfortable & functional position on the trigger bow due to the trigger's new starting position. While it arguably shortens the the trigger LOP, it is a pretty incremental change that leaves the positive qualities that Nyeti appreciates in a deadly force scenario. Yes, the pull is shorter but is still nothing like a striker gun trigger. Closest comparison would be to a v-spring Colt revolver- smooth with a little stack on top.