Dicking Around with My Glock 19 Because Reasons

[Jay Cunningham]

AmeriGlo PRO-GLO Tritium Front Sight

7698


AmeriGlo PRO OPERATOR Rear Sight

7699


GlockTriggers VOGEL Competition Trigger System

7700



Orange on the front (though I'm no longer convinced I like orange the best) with green tritium, subdued yellow tritium lamps on the rear, and the 5.0# firing pin spring installed for the trigger stuff. This is on a Gen 4 gun. I'm also using an aftermarket mag release (not a Vickers) which I really like.

[GJM]

No likey that rear sight as it is sharp. Prefer GL-146 as it doesn't overhang the rear dovetail, allowing the soft rear edge of the slide to rub against my skin and shirt instead of the sharp edge of the Operator. I have had good luck with the Vogel and Guardian triggers along with a 5.0 striker spring.

What mag release are you using?

[Jay Cunningham]

No likey that rear sight as it is sharp. Prefer GL-146 as it doesn't overhang the rear dovetail, allowing the soft rear edge of the slide to rub against my skin and shirt instead of the sharp edge of the Operator. I have had good luck with the Vogel and Guardian triggers along with a 5.0 striker spring.

What mag release are you using?

I had to actually dig into my Amazon order history to find it:

7702


It may have been discontinued?

[orionz06]

NDZ is New Designz, less than a few weeks ago their page was still up and they had loads of Glock stuff. They're a company that made assloads of paintball stuff back in the day, and still do.


Sent from my Nokia 3310 using an owl

[psalms144.1]

Everyone has their own reasons for making changes to their pistols - my daily carry Gen4 G19 has a yellow CAP front sight (which, after screwing around with both, I find to be much mo' bettah for me than the red/orange version) and "Operator" yellow lamp rears. I've also switched to the Vicker's mag release, removed the finger grooves and relieved/recontoured the underside of the triggerguard by hand (file and sanding block - no dremel butchery here).

The only thing I WOULDN'T do on a carry/self defense/duty gun is aftermarket trigger parts. Believe me, I've done it, tried a lot of them and spent a lot of money, but, when all was said and done, FOR ME, the GLOCK trigger using OEM parts is as shootable as I want on a duty/sd pistol. I run the "." connector with a 3rd Gen G17 smooth-face trigger ('cuz the serrated trigger hooowts my wittle fingies in lot sessions), and find it to be plenty easy to shoot, without being TOO easy to shoot.

Again, that's one man's opinion, and one man who carries a GLOCK even though I'm not a fan of them. I keep wanting to switch back to my P2000 LEM and just learn to shoot it correctly, but the GLOCK's trigger and low bore axis are crutches that let me outperform the P2000 without much effort...

[Little Creek]

removed the finger grooves and relieved/recontoured the underside of the triggerguard by hand (file and sanding block - no dremel butchery here).


I have thought of going the same. Could you post pictures?

[Jay Cunningham]

No likey that rear sight as it is sharp. Prefer GL-146 as it doesn't overhang the rear dovetail, allowing the soft rear edge of the slide to rub against my skin and shirt instead of the sharp edge of the Operator.

That is actually pretty important on a carry gun. As we all know, if you aren't carrying your gun, then you're pretty much at the mercy of anyone who decides to victimize you. This is actually an important thing - is it comfortable to carry? Of course the holster is very important, but the bits that aren't covered by the holster shouldn't bug and pester the carrier.

[Jay Cunningham]

my daily carry Gen4 G19 has a yellow CAP front sight (which, after screwing around with both, I find to be much mo' bettah for me than the red/orange version)

I agree that the lime/yellow that they use is probably preferable to the orange. However, I think plain white has been overlooked and/or disregarded.

[Jay Cunningham]

The only thing I WOULDN'T do on a carry/self defense/duty gun is aftermarket trigger parts. Believe me, I've done it, tried a lot of them and spent a lot of money, but, when all was said and done, FOR ME, the GLOCK trigger using OEM parts is as shootable as I want on a duty/sd pistol. I run the "." connector with a 3rd Gen G17 smooth-face trigger ('cuz the serrated trigger hooowts my wittle fingies in lot sessions), and find it to be plenty easy to shoot, without being TOO easy to shoot.

It's interesting the advice I've been given over the years, in relation to what those same advice-givers say now and also in relation to my own more educated and informed opinion.

When I started into this stuff 10 years ago, the mantra that I heard was "all fighting pistols NEED tritium night sights" and "don't mess with your trigger!" Fiber optic sights were considered gamerfag bullshit. The only trigger modifications were OEM stuff like dicking with Gen 3 Glock connectors and springs. Apparently one needed a... well, shitty trigger on one's "service" pistol because anything else would either land you in jail, or result in an ND, or lead you to wind up with a broken gun when it was GO TIME.

I got this stuff pounded into my head repeatedly for years. My how times have changed.

Look, the above isn't necessarily bad advice - it's just overwrought. Nowadays fiber optic sights are considered fairly normal on "service" pistols, the ABSOLUTE UTILITY of tritium night sights is in question, and trigger mods are all the rage. Hell, we've got damn optics on pistols now! lol

Very interesting.

:cool:

[Jay Cunningham]

the GLOCK trigger using OEM parts is as shootable as I want on a duty/sd pistol. I run the "." connector with a 3rd Gen G17 smooth-face trigger

I think the Gen 3 triggers are GTG in several different OEM configurations. I don't find the OEM Gen 4 trigger acceptable in any configuration. Even after a few thousand rounds, it still feels like a fucking staple gun.

[EVP]

While I have Glocks and like them for what they are. I am really digging the HK vp9, nothing aftermarket is needed except your desired choice of sights(10-8 for me).

[Jay Cunningham]

There are lots of good guns.

It's hard to argue with the mountain of data on the Glock 19, though. It's kind of like a 14.5" M4 carbine - mountains of data.

[breakingtime91]

There are lots of good guns.

It's hard to argue with the mountain of data on the Glock 19, though. It's kind of like a 14.5" M4 carbine - mountains of data.

I really love my hks but this statement makes complete sense to me.

[SteveB]

There are lots of good guns.

It's hard to argue with the mountain of data on the Glock 19, though. It's kind of like a 14.5" M4 carbine - mountains of data.

Agreed.

There is a huge variety of parts available for Glocks, and everyone has their favorites. Once you're happy with pull weight, I think the easiest way to improve trigger "feel" is by swapping out the striker block. I don't bother with polishing parts anymore; it's too easy to buy improvements. I've been using these lately, and like the way they smooth out the pull:

https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Details/192006

[psalms144.1]

Apparently one needed a... well, shitty trigger on one's "service" pistol because anything else would either land you in jail, or result in an ND, or lead you to wind up with a broken gun when it was GO TIME.

Look, the above isn't necessarily bad advice - it's just overwrought. To each his own. I have several hundred thousand rounds fired through a couple dozen GLOCKs at this time (free ammo rocks). What I've found, in that time, is that I don't get enough advantage from any of the "improved" triggers to make the platform that much more shootable that I'd be willing to defend the configuration in court. Of course, I'm in LE, and I live in NY, so any shooting I'm involved in is ABSOLUTELY going to be litigated.

I know this because my approach is fairly simple, if logistically involved. Whenever I have a new component I want to range, I take the part and a can of ammo to the range and shoot a wide range of drills - close "fast" drills and long distance (25 yards +) "accuracy" drills on a timer. I record the results and tabulate them. So I know, definitively, what benefit I get from polished or aftermarket parts. And, like I said before, none of them are "game changers" that are worth, for me, the potential fallout in the event of a shooting. The part that has tortured me the most is the Ghost "Evo" connectors - I REALLY LOVE the way they turn the "sponge-wall-break-overtravel" cycle of the GLOCK trigger into a nice rolling break with limited overtravel. They basically eliminate, for me in my GLOCKs, any "leftitis." But, they also reduce an already light trigger pull to what becomes an uncomfortably light pull, FOR ME, and, unfortunately, the company's advertising and marketing schlock make their parts hard to justify.

So, you roll your dice and pay your price, I guess.

[Greg]

I'm amazed at how much Glocktriggers.com charges for their setups. Maybe liability insurance (for them) is built into the price of those kits?

I see maybe 30 bucks worth of OEM parts and 20 minutes with a felt padded Dremel with some polishing compound in those kits. I'm sure they feel better than stock, I polish the contact points on my own Glocks and it makes a big difference.

FWIW swapping a Gen 3 Trigger Bar into a Gen 4 pistol makes a real difference. Much cleaner on the break, less of that staple gun "pop".

[Jay Cunningham]

I'm amazed at how much Glocktriggers.com charges for their setups. Maybe liability insurance (for them) is built into the price of those kits?

I see maybe 30 bucks worth of OEM parts and 20 minutes with a felt padded Dremel with some polishing compound in those kits. I'm sure they feel better than stock, I polish the contact points on my own Glocks and it makes a big difference.

FWIW swapping a Gen 3 Trigger Bar into a Gen 4 pistol makes a real difference. Much cleaner on the break, less of that staple gun "pop".

They are spendy, but I can justify it considering all the other stupid shit I've spent money on over the years. Most of which is sitting in bins in my garage.

[SLG]

I don't consider any of the current duty triggers to be "bad", or hard to shoot. I FIRMLY believe in keeping triggers as stock as possible (not for any legal reasons, that is beyond my understanding), but because I want my gun to fire when it should and not fire when it shouldn't. I would opine that anyone who truly has a hard time shooting a stock trigger well, really needs to work on their fundamentals and grip strength more. That is regardless of where they work, how much training they have had, how strong they are, or how good a shooter they think they are.

[Nephrology]

They are spendy, but I can justify it considering all the other stupid shit I've spent money on over the years. Most of which is sitting in bins in my garage.

I have a Guardian trigger that came with a G4G17 that I purchased. I'd say it's slightly nicer than the G4G19 whose trigger parts I polished by hand using Q-tips and mother's mag. both have G3 trigger bars that I installed + polished myself. YMMV.

[SLG]

I also think that tritium is a wonderful thing to have on a serious gun. Intelligent, experienced people can differ in their views, but I would say that whatever minor gains one may achieve because of their fiber optic sights, are meaningless in the fighting context, and that low light ability is more important.

If your eyes are unable (due to age, injury, etc.) to see a tritium iron sight, and you can see a fiber sight, then seeing a sight trumps which sight it is, but is that very likely? IDK.

[GAP]

I'm glad all of my "gun fund" cash only goes to cases of ammo now. I guess it keeps things interesting and people get bored but damn I never saw a group of ppl (gun community) flip flop so much. One day it's 1911s, then it's HKs, then it's wait HKs are just overpriced Glocks, then it's let's replace a spring or piece of plastic inside of my Glock to dick up the trigger and wonder why it malfunctions. You guys are great! :D

[SLG]

I should clarify: I'm talking about carry guns.

If you are trying to win a competition, you should do whatever you think will give you more performance.

If you just like to try new things, that's fine too. I just won't carry test pieces.

[BillSWPA]

Regarding triggers, reliability is definitely a concern. Swapping out Glock factory parts for other Glock factory parts can get me a trigger I like (NY1 spring with "-" connector) without this concern. On other guns, I have a strong preference for doing as little as possible to the trigger. If something is done, it should be making sure the components that interface with each other are square and smooth where they need to be square and smooth, without cutting springs. I have one DAO pistol that had action work done by a well known gunsmith. That gun never had light strike issues previously, and no springs were cut, but I now have to limit that gun to Winchester and Federal ammo only for reliability purposes. It was a worthwhile trade off with this gun.

Re: legal concerns: there is a legitimate concern about having a "hair trigger." Characterizing a shooting as accidental rather than intentional might make it easier for a prosecutor to get a conviction. It also brings your homeowner's insurance into play in a civil suit, since that insurance will not cover an intentional act.

Having said that, defending a justified shooting of a genuine bad guy with a hair trigger is always going to be easier than defending a miss that hit an innocent bystander because the trigger was too heavy. Many solutions to the above legal problem go too far in my opinion. Larry Vickers had posted on his website that the ideal trigger is 4-6 lb. If your trigger is at least 4 lb., then in my opinion it should not be too difficult to find a bona fide expert who could truthfully testify that you do not have a hair trigger.

While I could accept a heavier upper end than Larry recommends - my Glock triggers are likely about 7 lb. - I would not go too much higher. About 40% of the female shooters I have taken shooting had trouble with triggers of 9 lb. or more. I am a physically fit man who learned to shoot handguns primarily with DA revolvers, and I still shot sufficiently better on an IDPA classifier with a stock Glock than with a NY1 trigger that I stopped using the NY1 trigger with the standard connector.

I also find the consistency of the pull weight and crispness of the let off to be as - or possibly more - important than pull weight alone. I often find DA revolver triggers easier to us than many lighter DA semiauto triggers.

Disclaimer: I am admitted in PA only, and my practice area is intellectual property, not criminal law.

[SLG]

I agree with what Bill said above.

My point is not true weight, per se, but reliability.

A couple of points of clarification. I said it doesn't matter where you work. Not true. if you work somewhere that can legit test your trigger and determine that it has no downsides, then that is great, albeit extremely rare.

The bigger issue here is "What matters?" In a fight (talking carry guns, right?) performance obviously matters. However, fights are not historically won by guys with slightly better equipment. They are won by guys who fight better. Craig and Tom mentioned it in the other thread about verbal aggression. It's not a marksmanship problem, its a problem solving problem. Yes, one way you gain confidence is through superior marksmanship. Another is through experience. The problem is, when you lack experience in problem solving, you start looking for hardware solutions more often than not. It's hard to stay focused on the problem, when that problem is only theoretical to you.

I have to apologize to Jay, as this is certainly a major thread drift.

[Jay Cunningham]

Back in post #9 I wrote:


It's interesting the advice I've been given over the years, in relation to what those same advice-givers say now and also in relation to my own more educated and informed opinion.


I wanted to clarify, because the way I wrote it could seem like I was saying that I have a more educated and informed opinion than those I was seeking advice from. Which isn't true.

What I meant was that my opinion on my needs is much more educated and informed now than 10 years ago when I started this journey. Which I think (hope) is the whole point of all this stuff. It's why we seek out advice from many different experts. So we can learn to ask the correct questions. Once we can do that, many (not all) of the answers become obvious.

[rob_s]

They are spendy, but I can justify it considering all the other stupid shit I've spent money on over the years. Most of which is sitting in bins in my garage.

Not to mention, everyone's time has a different value to them. "30 minutes of fiddle fuck" is never, ever, an accurate statement, since it doesn't taken tobacconist thenswto, tearing down the gun, re-assembling it, etc. it's like the people that confuse a 30 minute drive time with actually taking 30 minutes to get somewhere, ass-in-seat to ass-in-seat.

[Jay Cunningham]

I don't consider any of the current duty triggers to be "bad", or hard to shoot. I FIRMLY believe in keeping triggers as stock as possible (not for any legal reasons, that is beyond my understanding), but because I want my gun to fire when it should and not fire when it shouldn't. I would opine that anyone who truly has a hard time shooting a stock trigger well, really needs to work on their fundamentals and grip strength more. That is regardless of where they work, how much training they have had, how strong they are, or how good a shooter they think they are.

It took me a long, long time to consider *any* trigger modifications on my pistols or carbines. I ran with a stock Glock trigger for years, but honestly Todd had a lot to do with me considering trigger characteristics - whist also striving to preserve reliability.

He was really the first one (for me) to describe a "rolling break" and why it was desirable, and other interesting tidbits which I'd never previously considered. I very carefully followed all of his posts about trigger mods and characteristics.

That said, my primary CCW has the 3.5#/NY1 combo which is OEM.

[SLG]

It took me a long, long time to consider *any* trigger modifications on my pistols or carbines. I ran with a stock Glock trigger for years, but honestly Todd had a lot to do with me considering trigger characteristics - whist also striving to preserve reliability.

He was really the first one (for me) to describe a "rolling break" and why it was desirable, and other interesting tidbits which I'd never previously considered. I very carefully followed all of his posts about trigger mods and characteristics.

That said, my primary CCW has the 3.5#/NY1 combo which is OEM.

I figured your carry gun was not the one under discussion:-)

I too prefer a rolling break, which is one reason why I really like DA guns. That said, if it matters that much to someone, then I would tell them to not carry a Glock. Todd was much more obsessive about trigger quality than I am, and though he could shoot any trigger, he wanted what he wanted. I always chalked it up to not having a gun issued to him. I think there are real benefits to simply using what is issued, or for people who are not issued guns, using basically stock guns. Trying to make a carry gun into a race gun is not a great idea, imo, and the benefits of shooting a stock gun cannot be realized when you modify them to be easier to shoot.

I'm not into suffering, so I don't want this to be taken that I think you need to make due with inferior equipment because it makes you a better person, or anything like that. I do think it makes you a better fighter though, and it will improve your shooting and understanding of trigger control. Better fighter because what matters is not your absolute shooting ability, but your resolve and calmness. Better understanding of trigger control because no matter where someone thinks they are in the grand scheme of shooting ability, someone else out there is shooting better, with a harder trigger to boot.

I don't like Glock triggers very much. I can carry a really nice 1911 if I want to. I'm carrying a stock Glock. It seems to work just fine.:-)

These are my opinions, others should do as they see fit and not be offended by my views.

[GJM]

Pistol-Forum drills, many of which are effectively Timmie USPSA drills, may have contributed to the quest for better carry triggers. Something about reporting results leads to picking all the low hanging fruit. That fruit includes the right type practice, the right holster and mag pouch, the right sights, and, yes, the right trigger.

Just using a Glock as an example, my guess is the difference between a Taran, minus, dot, standard or most any Glock trigger part would likely have zero impact on those shooter's success rates in the Rangemaster student shooting data base.

[psalms144.1]

Pistol-Forum drills, many of which are effectively Timmie USPSA drills, may have contributed to the quest for better carry triggers. Something about reporting results leads to picking all the low hanging fruit. That fruit includes the right type practice, the right holster and mag pouch, the right sights, and, yes, the right trigger.

Just using a Glock as an example, my guess is the difference between a Taran, minus, dot, standard or most any Glock trigger part would likely have zero impact on those shooter's success rates in the Rangemaster student shooting data base.For me at least, this is "winner winner, chicken dinner!" Trying to keep up with the shooting performances some of y'all post on here really makes my hair hurt (yes, I'm looking at you!). Combine that with a steady decline in my own performance due to age, vision, and lack of range/ammo availability (have I told y'all lately how much I HATE NY?) makes me always wanting to find the next "edge" so I don't keep falling behind...

[GJM]

For me at least, this is "winner winner, chicken dinner!" Trying to keep up with the shooting performances some of y'all post on here really makes my hair hurt (yes, I'm looking at you!). Combine that with a steady decline in my own performance due to age, vision, and lack of range/ammo availability (have I told y'all lately how much I HATE NY?) makes me always wanting to find the next "edge" so I don't keep falling behind...

3 letters -- RDS

[Nephrology]

Pistol-Forum drills, many of which are effectively Timmie USPSA drills, may have contributed to the quest for better carry triggers. Something about reporting results leads to picking all the low hanging fruit. That fruit includes the right type practice, the right holster and mag pouch, the right sights, and, yes, the right trigger.

Just using a Glock as an example, my guess is the difference between a Taran, minus, dot, standard or most any Glock trigger part would likely have zero impact on those shooter's success rates in the Rangemaster student shooting data base.

Honestly I find it hard to tell the difference between a standard and a minus connector on my two well-worn Gen 3 guns. both have very smooth triggers with light take up and a rolling break; the subjective felt difference between the two is at most a pound, maybe two. I certainly don't think it matters for personal defense, but on low-probability steel poppers... I'll take the lighter one all day.

[Greg]

Honestly I find it hard to tell the difference between a standard and a minus connector on my two well-worn Gen 3 guns. both have very smooth triggers with light take up and a rolling break; the subjective felt difference between the two is at most a pound, maybe two. I certainly don't think it matters for personal defense, but on low-probability steel poppers... I'll take the lighter one all day.

Well worn pistols feel like they have had a trigger job. It is hard to find any grit or spring stacking on a pistol that has 5000+ rounds through it.

[SLG]

I, and a bunch of others, actually prefer my well used stock trigger to a minus connector.

#trainingisthebesttriggerjob

:-)

[GAP]

Well worn pistols feel like they have had a trigger job. It is hard to find any grit or spring stacking on a pistol that has 5000+ rounds through it.


I, and a bunch of others, actually prefer my well used stock trigger to a minus connector.

#trainingisthebesttriggerjob

:-)

I have two Glock 26s.. Original has maybe 8k through it and newer one maybe 2k.. I prefer to carry the older one because of the trigger! So now I practice with the newer one in hopes it achieves the same feel. ;)

[GJM]

I, and a bunch of others, actually prefer my well used stock trigger to a minus connector.

#trainingisthebesttriggerjob

:-)

There is so much variation in individual Glocks, that your observation doesn't surprise me at all. My wife has three Gen 3 34 pistols with 20,000-50,000 rounds through them, that have astounding triggers. Of course depending upon how fastidious you are with ongoing PM, one reason your trigger might feel so good, is springs like your striker spring are effectively much lighter than stock.

I don't notice much difference in my accuracy shooting different weight Glock triggers, but individual trigger characteristics effect how fast I can shoot them on the same drills.

[orionz06]

I get the whole improvement over time but I've not found a Glock that was shot to hell and back that I favored over a nice trigger job with OEM components, Glocktriggers.com among them. My Gen4 carry gun is stock and with over 10k in it could certainly be better. My dry fire gun is only marginally better and the 3rd partner is staple gun worthy.

[ST911]

I, and a bunch of others, actually prefer my well used stock trigger to a minus connector.

#trainingisthebesttriggerjob

:-)

Some of the best Glock triggers I've felt have been on the traveling AC guns.

[BillSWPA]

I prefer the NY1 spring and minus connector on 3rd generation guns and earlier not because it is lighter than standard, but because I get a consistent pull weight from beginning to end and a crisper let off. My preferred combination is slightly heavier than a standard Glock trigger. Trigger pull weight is not the sole determining factor in a good trigger.

[SpyderMan2k4]

This is certainly an interesting discussion as I've gone over the edge with my pistol. I think as long as safety and reliability aren't compromised, one shouldn't discount doing something simply because they like it.

For the last couple years I've really slacked off on meaningful pistol training and practice because I haven't enjoyed shooting my carry guns nearly as much as my competition pistols (I realize that's not an excuse).

To help correct this, I put together a new carry pistol (after seeing possibilities at SHOT) that would become my absolute favorite to shoot. It's been way more enjoyable to shoot, I'm stocking up on ammo to shoot this year, and have gotten signed up for a couple classes so far. I realize this should be done anyway, but it's a lot easier to make a priority when it's that much more enjoyable.

[GAP]

^ Good point about enjoying what you shoot. Not that it's the right or wrong view, but my thought is that you won't know how reliable something is until the worst possible moment. I like leaving carry pistols in their stock configuration. It gives me the warm fuzzies because I know how well I maintain them and have the confidence that they will perform as designed.

"Fun" is also a subjective feeling. Some people like to tinker with their pistol's internals. Some like to drink $100 worth of booze at a bar. I like to work on 2 second bill drills, with my carry gear.

[rob_s]

Of course depending upon how fastidious you are with ongoing PM, one reason your trigger might feel so good, is springs like your striker spring are effectively much lighter than stock.


That's an interesting point, re: stock parts nearing failure vs. go-fast parts that are new.

Personally, I find it hard to believe that anyone involved in this discussion actually has just their one single carry/dryfire/competition/training/plinking/nightstand/car gun, which to me has always mitigated whatever concerns I had about the reliability of go-fast parts (at least to some extent). If I put a go-fast part on my training gun(s), and it lasts and lasts, even if that service life is less than the stock part, it's unlikely to ever reach that failure point in my carry gun(s).

re: whether or not folks actually see measurable improvement with go-fast parts, I generally find that those at the very early stages of learning and those at the very highest level of shooting tend to be the ones that see actual results from go-fast parts. The guys in the middle are usually good enough to deal with the stock parts but not so good that they are squeezing every 10th of a second in time or every grease ring of accuracy out of the gun.

And, for a guy that is only and completely concerned with defensive use of the gun (I don't know any of those guys, and doubt that any are on forums, since they certainly wouldn't be wasting their ninja-time interacting with a bunch of hobbiests), the gains in 10ths and grease rings probably don't matter.

[Jay Cunningham]

The sights on my gun seem to hit "drive the dot" (okay there's not really a dot) at 25 yards. The trigger felt great. I went through around 200 rounds, no issues. We'll see how it goes.