Pictures from grizzly attack in April in AK

[GJM]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7f3_1462381273

Warning, gory!


Sent from my iPad

[Lon]

That's some hard core shit right there.

[breakingtime91]

rather be dead

[41magfan]

The amount of abuse the human body can take and still remain viable never ceases to amaze me.

Any details on the attack, GJM?

[JHC]

Poor guy. I know in our light hiking not too far off the beaten path I was lit up as the girls photographed flowers. Shit.

[Gray222]

http://i.imgur.com/I8kq0uJ.gif

[Dagga Boy]

And you fled Havasu for a little snake to go to the place where those live.....

[LSP552]

There are some environments that we are not naturally at the top of the food chain. Alaska and the ocean come to mind.

[Hansohn Brothers]

Oh sweet lord!

[Matt O]

Holy fuck. Having killed the bear, I'd happily check out at that point.

[GJM]

Original story:


http://www.adn.com/article/20160417/man-mauled-bear-near-denali-highway


Sent from my iPhone

[Malamute]

And you fled Havasu for a little snake to go to the place where those live.....


Yeah, but,.....

https://www.google.com/search?q=rattlesnake+bite&biw=1093&bih=538&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiEsNGa28HMAhXHRyYKHaIlBdUQ_AUIBigB

Snake bites can be pretty wicked also.

[okie john]

rather be dead

Probably just a matter of time.


Okie John

[GJM]

Yeah, but,.....

https://www.google.com/search?q=rattlesnake+bite&biw=1093&bih=538&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiEsNGa28HMAhXHRyYKHaIlBdUQ_AUIBigB

Snake bites can be pretty wicked also.

That snake stuff is scary.

[Mike C]

Only good snake is a dead one.

[Matt O]

Only good snake is a dead one.

And spiders too, though whereas a shovel is good enough for a snake, spiders require nuking from orbit.

[Dagga Boy]

That snake stuff is scary.

One of our students is one of the handlers who works in the pit at the Sweetwater Rattlesnake roundup.

[Mike C]

Only think about Texas I don't miss is the fucking rattlers.

[Matt O]

One of our students is one of the handlers who works in the pit at the Sweetwater Rattlesnake roundup.

That picture is just begging for some flamethrower action.

[ldunnmobile]

That. Is. Almost. Literally. Unbelievable.

Do we know how he killed it?

[Duelist]

One of our students is one of the handlers who works in the pit at the Sweetwater Rattlesnake roundup.

Nope. Don't even want to go to the show.

[XXXsilverXXX]

My curiosity got the best of me.... Soooo much for sleeping tonight....

[BaiHu]

So...was that the back of his head? /sarcasm.
Wowzers...tough dude. Posing for pictures while his face is split like a baked potato....was that a snowmobile b/w his legs or his nutsack? Yeesh!

[WobblyPossum]

It looks like his right eye was still functional. Reconstructive surgery can accomplish some damn impressive things and there's a chance this guy can not only live a normal life, but also be able to tell a crazy story.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tamara]

Only think about Texas I don't miss is the fucking rattlers.

7675

[Tamara]

Original story:


http://www.adn.com/article/20160417/man-mauled-bear-near-denali-highway

WARNING: Do not read the comments unless you are ready to fight down the urge to fly to Anchorage and start beating hippies to their knees with a shovel.

[Totem Polar]

Fucked up day. Guy looks like Cthulhu with a shave.

[JMorse]

Yeah, not gonna click the pic to see this. I remember seeing a picture of the aftermath of the woman who called her Mom a few times over the course of several hours to tell her a bear was eating her. Awful.

[JTQ]

Wowzers...tough dude. Posing for pictures while his face is split like a baked potato....
That's what I was thinking, and the guy taking the pictures too. Of all the things rushing through my mind seeing my buddy mauled by a bear, stopping to take a picture, would not have been one of them.

[Nephrology]

Curious to see what happened to his friend - photos aren't good but it looks like he lost a hand and was mauled pretty badly in the face maybe too. Or it's just a bad photo.

As for dude #1, it looks like he suffered a shitton of soft tissue damage and most of his sinuses got excavated by Mr Bear, but otherwise nothing that looks like a critically life-threatening injury (except for the risk of aspiration/asphyxiation on blood). I am amazed that he kept his airway open all the way to he hospital. I would hate to try to intubate a guy like that...

[TheNewbie]

I hike in black bear country, Big Bend and the Guadalupe Mountains. I feel so inadequate with my 9mm.

[Nephrology]

I hike in black bear country, Big Bend and the Guadalupe Mountains. I feel so inadequate with my 9mm.

Black bears are big pussies. I wouldn't really worry about them.

[JHC]

I hike in black bear country, Big Bend and the Guadalupe Mountains. I feel so inadequate with my 9mm.

If your 9mm is reliable and you are highly adept in applying it, IMO that's way better than heading into new territory with heavy recoiling magnums of one stripe or another.

It would be helpful to eventually learn how bear got the drop on them.

[41magfan]

Black bears are big pussies.

Until they aren't.

Black bear attacks generally don't garner the same level of attention, but they can be more dangerous in some ways because they tend to be predatory - not defensive in nature.

In other words, the Blackie doesn't just attack as an act of defense ...... he attacks with the intention of eating you.

[Erik]

Warning, gory!


I will never question you on this you again.

[rsa-otc]

Black bears are big pussies. I wouldn't really worry about them.

I hate snakes on a subconscious primal level going back to when I encountered a large Black Snake as a Kindergartner.

The most scared I have been in the wilderness was when a black bear cub run across the trail 5 feet in front of me and climbed a tree on the edge of the trail. Momma bear was not in sight. Yours truly was backing away slowly and talking softly to mama that I was out of there. Never did see mama but I wasn't pushing the situation.

Most black bear encounters end peacefully, but some have looked as bad as those pictures.

[LSP552]

I hike in black bear country, Big Bend and the Guadalupe Mountains. I feel so inadequate with my 9mm.

We go to Alaska every couple of years. I feel inadequate on day hikes with a stoutly loaded .45 Colt.....and these pics didn't help.

[NETim]

I've been bear huntin' exactly one time. On Admiralty Island off Juneau. I was "bear guarding" while my brothers took a break and did some fishing in a stream. I kept noticing claw marks 12 feet up on the trees around me. Could only see a few yards in most directions due to the thick foliage. I looked at the .338 WM in my hands and thought, "This ain't enough gun."

[Peally]

Not clicking that shit, the idea alone is enough to drill in the "BRING A GUN ON HIKES" rule.

People always think they're the top dog in the world, until another creature comes along and proves otherwise.

[LostDuke]

Now I have to figure out how to unsee yet another thing.

Does the face have no arteries? I am shocked at the amount of devastation and yet he is alive.

[Drang]

The most scared I have been in the wilderness was when a black bear cub run across the trail 5 feet in front of me and climbed a tree on the edge of the trail. Momma bear was not in sight. Yours truly was backing away slowly and talking softly to mama that I was out of there. Never did see mama but I wasn't pushing the situation.
So there we were, at the Lake Gogebic, MI, dump, watching the bears (not a lot to do after it got too dark to fish), and realized that those cubs were alone, when momma bear comes running across the road from behind us...

[JHC]

I've been bear huntin' exactly one time. On Admiralty Island off Juneau. I was "bear guarding" while my brothers took a break and did some fishing in a stream. I kept noticing claw marks 12 feet up on the trees around me. Could only see a few yards in most directions due to the thick foliage. I looked at the .338 WM in my hands and thought, "This ain't enough gun."

My concern over limited range visibility would be 100 times greater than with the caliber. GJM posted multiple links to the evolving story of the hunter badly mauled on Kodiak last year. When the story came out of how fast the attack came out of thick cover . . . that was it.

I thought the movie The Revenant did a decent job of depicting the closing velocity of the grizzly sow in her initial attack from the protagonist's rear. Once he spun around he didn't even get his rifle up for the shot.

[Ronin_Jedi]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7f3_1462381273

Warning, gory!


Sent from my iPad
I have one word: F@CK. Thought I've seen some stuff but ... Feel sorry for the guy, that's going to be a long hard painful and expensive recovery/rehab.

Sent from my Sero 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Robinson]

My concern over limited range visibility would be 100 times greater than with the caliber. GJM posted multiple links to the evolving story of the hunter badly mauled on Kodiak last year. When the story came out of how fast the attack came out of thick cover . . . that was it.

I thought the movie The Revenant did a decent job of depicting the closing velocity of the grizzly sow in her initial attack from the protagonist's rear. Once he spun around he didn't even get his rifle up for the shot.

I am in no way arguing the speed at which bears attack, but in the movie he did in fact get a good shot off at the grizzly.

Edit: Nope, I'm wrong -- JHC is entirely correct. I had forgotten the sequence of events in the film.

[Nephrology]

Now I have to figure out how to unsee yet another thing.

Does the face have no arteries? I am shocked at the amount of devastation and yet he is alive.

The face most definitely has arteries (lots and lots and lots of them), but they very quickly branch into much smaller vessels. Here's a couple images from good old Gray's to illustrate:

http://i.imgur.com/p28778w.jpg

The large-caliber arteries that you absolutely do not want to damage are all in the neck (i/e carotids) and brain (basilar, cerebrals). The arteries that go to the center of the face (labials, nasals, facials, frontals, orbitals, etc) all narrow really fast. In the setting of trauma, you get local vasoconstriction & clotting that will reduce the extent of hemorrhage in an attempt to maintain hemostasis. So, even though his injuries are pretty terrible, it doesn't actually look like any large-caliber arteries were damaged.

Like I said earlier, my bigger concern would be airway obstruction from blood, pieces of bone and tissue, etc. that said, there are 1st responders/RNs/MDs on this forum who have more experience with extensive ENT/OMS trauma than I do so I would defer to them if they disagree.

[41magfan]

With no intentions of derailing the thread…..

We had a guy self-inflict an almost identical injury in a botched attempt at suicide with a .12 gauge. He stuck the gun under his chin, but misjudged the angle and simply blew most of his face off without doing any brain damage.

The first responders were standing around waiting for investigators to come work the suicide scene when someone noticed he was still breathing.

The plastic surgeons did some real magic – given the limited canvas they had to work with – but he’s quite a sight to behold. He has never attempted suicide again.

[11B10]

That's what I was thinking, and the guy taking the pictures too. Of all the things rushing through my mind seeing my buddy mauled by a bear, stopping to take a picture, would not have been one of them.


His "buddy?" That kind of "buddy" probably asked him to smile!

[DocGKR]

Nephrology's comments above are quite correct; in addition, it is not uncommon to have suicide attempts as noted by 41magfan--these horrific and disfiguring injuries to the maxillofacial area are frequently not lethal. The do require an extensive amount of reconstructive surgery by OMFS, OHNS, or plastics.

[Dagga Boy]

Nephrology's comments above are quite correct; in addition, it is not uncommon to have suicide attempts as noted by 41magfan--these horrific and disfiguring injuries to the maxillofacial area are frequently not lethal. The do require an extensive amount of reconstructive surgery by OMFS, OHNS, or plastics.

What do you know about that, aren't you just a dentist?......;-)

[Nephrology]

What do you know about that, aren't you just a dentist?......;-)

I know you're being facetious but the dental students on my medical campus spent a ton more time with head and neck anatomy than we did. All I remember from the head and neck unit of anatomy was passing our cadaver through the band saw to transect the skull. Bone has a very particular smell when it is aerosolized. The rest was an infinity of tiny little structures that I repeatedly destroyed while dissecting and whose names I don't think I will ever remember. This was when I learned that surgery was not for me.

[DocGKR]

Damn--I'm not just a dentist, I'm a Mall Ninja Dentist.

[dkv]

I would hate to try to intubate a guy like that...

Have no fear of that. The jaw and tongue are what get in the way, and when they've been "mobilized" like that the laryngeal inlet is a lot easier to visualize.

[LittleLebowski]

One of our students is one of the handlers who works in the pit at the Sweetwater Rattlesnake roundup.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbfMkh940Q

[Nephrology]

Have no fear of that. The jaw and tongue are what get in the way, and when they've been "mobilized" like that the laryngeal inlet is a lot easier to visualize.

Huh. Good to know. Thanks for the tip. Hopefully not a situation I have to deal the next time my attending has me tube someone...

[GJM]

Here is an account of a 2014 attack in the Kodiak area. The victim was a friend of a friend.


http://www.adn.com/article/20141105/man-injured-2-bears-killed-after-mauling-near-kodiak


Sent from my iPad

[11B10]

His "buddy?" That kind of "buddy" probably asked him to smile!



I didn't look at the pictures BEFORE I posted! Holy crap - the poor guy has no face and I'm making jokes about smiling. Look first, 11B10!

[JHC]

Here is an account of a 2014 attack in the Kodiak area. The victim was a friend of a friend.


http://www.adn.com/article/20141105/man-injured-2-bears-killed-after-mauling-near-kodiak


Sent from my iPad

Oh 2014. Time flies. Last year was a lot more quiet re incidents like this up there. 2014 had several IIRC. One being the Mil dependent jogging on or near JBER (former Ft Richardson).

[WDW]

I'd put whatever gun I had under my chin and go to Valhalla
F*** that! That's intense!

[Chance]

The actual qualified medical types have already commented, but this isn't the first time I've seen photos of someone with their face torn off. It looks horrifying, but evidently isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Just don't hand the guy a mirror....

[EMC]

Those plastic surgeons who can fix this stuff and make it workable are amazing to me. My hat is off to them.

[Dagga Boy]

I know you're being facetious but the dental students on my medical campus spent a ton more time with head and neck anatomy than we did. All I remember from the head and neck unit of anatomy was passing our cadaver through the band saw to transect the skull. Bone has a very particular smell when it is aerosolized. The rest was an infinity of tiny little structures that I repeatedly destroyed while dissecting and whose names I don't think I will ever remember. This was when I learned that surgery was not for me.

Doc and I are good friends. Take my post with like 20 winking emotithings and dripping like fresh maple syrup in sarcasm. If my face ever ended up like the guy in the picture...DocGKR is who I would want trying to put the mess back together.

[GJM]

A few years back, I ended up having to shoot a brown bear on Kodiak Island, while deer hunting. Given the interest in this subject, I copied the relevant part of the bear encounter from my report then, and am putting it here. Doesn't mean this was a typical encounter, but it was mine at that time.



Charlie led, with me following behind, Astro’s leash in hand. We saw a few bears far down in the flats below us, that appeared to be resting, and contoured along a side hill looking for deer. Finding a good perch, we stopped to glass. Not too long after, we heard some shots and assumed Hans or Peter had a deer. Next, I spotted a nice looking buck bedded down ahead of us. The deer was 487 yards away, and we decided I would stay with Astro, so Charlie could cross a ravine, climb a hill, and try to hunt down on the buck from above.

It was pretty thick going, and I followed Charlie’s progress as she worked her away across a ravine, as Astro and I enjoyed a splendid morning. I was stretched out alternating between watching the buck in my binoculars and Charlie going up the hill, and taking in the bright sunshine, as Astro slept attached to my pack with her leash. I looked down towards the ocean, caught some movement, and saw a brown bear several hundred yards away. It was a beautiful bear, and I grabbed my camera and zoomed in to take a picture.

As the bear ambled my way, I picked up my rifle, and chambered a cartridge, since my practice is to travel with an empty chamber until ready to shoot, or circumstances dictate chambering a round. I then stood up, so the bear could see I was there and alter course. Funny, the bear appeared to see me, but continued my way. I next started waving my hand and talking to the bear in a conversational voice, as is standard practice in such a situation. Between the hillside behind me, the thick grass, and Astro sleeping tied to the pack, I wasn’t able to move away. What happened next kind of blends together, but I increased the intensity of my words to the bear, and pointed in with my rifle. At 50 yards, almost with disbelief, I began to wonder whether this situation might go from a bear sighting to a bear fight, started screaming at the top of my lungs at the bear, and Astro decided to chime in to help. It was funny -- while various shooting courses I have attended have advocated verbal commands, I haven’t been much of talker in those settings -- however, here I had no trouble shouting like I had a bull horn.

Charlie was across the way, and recalls looking back and seeing me faced in a direction other than the buck, which was surprising to her, since we would normally communicate with hand signals in such a situation. She continued climbing, looked again, saw me looking away and said she was starting to get annoyed. She continued, then heard me screaming at the top of my lungs, Astro barking, and thought “what are THEY doing, when I am trying to stalk a buck!” She put her binoculars up, saw the bear coming, me pointing my rifle at the bear, and was incredulous. She said she considered firing a warning shot but didn’t want to startle me, and then considered filming with her camera, but thought that just wrong in such a situation. She said she couldn’t believe I wasn’t shooting as the bear got closer and closer to me.

Back to me -- so I had the rifle up, crosshairs on the bear, screaming loudly, calculating how long I could afford to wait before having to shoot. I was convinced the bear would turn, based on previous interactions, and wanted to give that beautiful animal every chance to go away. At 20 yards, I thought I was very close to my line in the sand. Then, the bear went up, paused just briefly, and I thought it would stop or move away. Rather than turn, the bear went down to all fours, started again towards me, and at 15 yards I decided I had to to fire. Holding a bolt rifle, and being alone, I didn’t have time for a warning shot, as the bear was within a second of reaching me at full speed. I had the crosshairs on the brain, started to fire, decided the consequences of missing the brain were too great, and given the power of my rifle, a .375 H&H, dropped the crosshairs down onto the chest and fired once. I worked the bolt in recoil, came back down with the sights, and the bear had spun and fallen over. I covered the bear with my rifle, and felt the bear had expired. Astro was still barking frantically, dragging my pack around by the leash, as I approached the bear and confirmed it was no longer a threat.

I yelled to Charlie that the bear was down and she started back towards me. We rejoined, quickly discussed what had happened, when Charlie noticed another bear, similar in size to the one I had shot, moving to where she had been heading after the bedded buck. That bear went and bedded almost exactly where the buck had been. Here it is:

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Damn--I'm not just a dentist, I'm a Mall Ninja Dentist.

As just another hospital dentist in the gallery, I have something to add to this thread, FINALLY relative to my day job! When I was in school/residency, I treated a number of GSW's, to the face. And along with that, some of the most rewarding and memorable experiences was standing over these poor folks in the OR, sorting through the wreckage, trying to figure out what is what, and then tagging it, running a suture through it, or putting a hemostat on it. THEN figuring out how to wing a flap to make it all come back together, at least initially. Nothing looks as good in real life as it looks in Netter's anatomy plates.

Many times, these patients face a decade of reconstruction. The initial surgery is just to restore as much function as possible, and to reconnect/reroute the blood supply to ensure adequate healing. After that, the kids at plastics and/or OMFS take over. Of course, the surgical real estate is all geographically dependent, too. Some departments handle different areas at different hospitals and universities/schools.

I miss that kind of work. Mostly, in my day to day, I'll drain a huge abscess, or do some plastic surgery on gums and jaw bone. But, sometimes a GSW to the face walks in, too.

Life is weird.

https://revolverscience.com/2016/04/08/45-acp-to-the-midface/

[Chance]

As just another hospital dentist in the gallery, I have something to add to this thread, FINALLY relative to my day job!

I was actually about to mention you after Darryl's clarification post, and then you wandered in on your own. I had a whole new perspective on dentistry after sitting through one of your lectures. All the grisly stuff you put on Instagram is really interesting, too.

For anyone that doesn't consider dentists "doctors", I highly recommend sitting in on one of Dr House's talks. It's an amazing field, and I'm glad there are people doing it, so I don't have to.

[JHC]

A few years back, I ended up having to shoot a brown bear on Kodiak Island, while deer hunting. Given the interest in this subject, I copied the relevant part of the bear encounter from my report then, and am putting it here. Doesn't mean this was a typical encounter, but it was mine at that time.



Charlie led, with me following behind, Astro’s leash in hand. We saw a few bears far down in the flats below us, that appeared to be resting, and contoured along a side hill looking for deer. Finding a good perch, we stopped to glass. Not too long after, we heard some shots and assumed Hans or Peter had a deer. Next, I spotted a nice looking buck bedded down ahead of us. The deer was 487 yards away, and we decided I would stay with Astro, so Charlie could cross a ravine, climb a hill, and try to hunt down on the buck from above.

It was pretty thick going, and I followed Charlie’s progress as she worked her away across a ravine, as Astro and I enjoyed a splendid morning. I was stretched out alternating between watching the buck in my binoculars and Charlie going up the hill, and taking in the bright sunshine, as Astro slept attached to my pack with her leash. I looked down towards the ocean, caught some movement, and saw a brown bear several hundred yards away. It was a beautiful bear, and I grabbed my camera and zoomed in to take a picture.

As the bear ambled my way, I picked up my rifle, and chambered a cartridge, since my practice is to travel with an empty chamber until ready to shoot, or circumstances dictate chambering a round. I then stood up, so the bear could see I was there and alter course. Funny, the bear appeared to see me, but continued my way. I next started waving my hand and talking to the bear in a conversational voice, as is standard practice in such a situation. Between the hillside behind me, the thick grass, and Astro sleeping tied to the pack, I wasn’t able to move away. What happened next kind of blends together, but I increased the intensity of my words to the bear, and pointed in with my rifle. At 50 yards, almost with disbelief, I began to wonder whether this situation might go from a bear sighting to a bear fight, started screaming at the top of my lungs at the bear, and Astro decided to chime in to help. It was funny -- while various shooting courses I have attended have advocated verbal commands, I haven’t been much of talker in those settings -- however, here I had no trouble shouting like I had a bull horn.

Charlie was across the way, and recalls looking back and seeing me faced in a direction other than the buck, which was surprising to her, since we would normally communicate with hand signals in such a situation. She continued climbing, looked again, saw me looking away and said she was starting to get annoyed. She continued, then heard me screaming at the top of my lungs, Astro barking, and thought “what are THEY doing, when I am trying to stalk a buck!” She put her binoculars up, saw the bear coming, me pointing my rifle at the bear, and was incredulous. She said she considered firing a warning shot but didn’t want to startle me, and then considered filming with her camera, but thought that just wrong in such a situation. She said she couldn’t believe I wasn’t shooting as the bear got closer and closer to me.

Back to me -- so I had the rifle up, crosshairs on the bear, screaming loudly, calculating how long I could afford to wait before having to shoot. I was convinced the bear would turn, based on previous interactions, and wanted to give that beautiful animal every chance to go away. At 20 yards, I thought I was very close to my line in the sand. Then, the bear went up, paused just briefly, and I thought it would stop or move away. Rather than turn, the bear went down to all fours, started again towards me, and at 15 yards I decided I had to to fire. Holding a bolt rifle, and being alone, I didn’t have time for a warning shot, as the bear was within a second of reaching me at full speed. I had the crosshairs on the brain, started to fire, decided the consequences of missing the brain were too great, and given the power of my rifle, a .375 H&H, dropped the crosshairs down onto the chest and fired once. I worked the bolt in recoil, came back down with the sights, and the bear had spun and fallen over. I covered the bear with my rifle, and felt the bear had expired. Astro was still barking frantically, dragging my pack around by the leash, as I approached the bear and confirmed it was no longer a threat.

I yelled to Charlie that the bear was down and she started back towards me. We rejoined, quickly discussed what had happened, when Charlie noticed another bear, similar in size to the one I had shot, moving to where she had been heading after the bedded buck. That bear went and bedded almost exactly where the buck had been. Here it is:

Great report.

Can you speculate how you may have chosen different options; especially the shoot options had you NOT been carrying a .375 but any of your alternative out and about guns? And alternately if you'd been out of reach of your long gun for some reason?

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I was actually about to mention you after Darryl's clarification post, and then you wandered in on your own. I had a whole new perspective on dentistry after sitting through one of your lectures. All the grisly stuff you put on Instagram is really interesting, too.

For anyone that doesn't consider dentists "doctors", I highly recommend sitting in on one of Dr House's talks. It's an amazing field, and I'm glad there are people doing it, so I don't have to.

Thank you. Glad you got something useful out of the lecture.

I tell people two things about the profession...

1. All Dentists are Doctors, but not all Doctors are Dentists

2. Dental/oral surgery is just as difficult as any other field of surgery, EXCEPT that we do it in the dark (even with a bright light, there are shadows) upside down, in the reflection of a mirror.

The only people that don't value the skills of a competent dentist are people that have never needed one.

[SMD]

My mother-in-law did much of her work as a maxillofacial surgeon in the ER at the Montefiore Hospital in the Bronx in the 70s and 80s. She refers to the place lovingly as the Knife and Gun Club. Oh the stories she can tell after a couple glasses of Merlot...

[Nephrology]

Thank you. Glad you got something useful out of the lecture.

I tell people two things about the profession...

1. All Dentists are Doctors, but not all Doctors are Dentists

2. Dental/oral surgery is just as difficult as any other field of surgery, EXCEPT that we do it in the dark (even with a bright light, there are shadows) upside down, in the reflection of a mirror.

The only people that don't value the skills of a competent dentist are people that have never needed one.

ENT/OMS turf wars are some of the funniest in the hospital, IMO. Outside of suturing and tubing I really want nothing to do with anything above the clavicle. Like I said, my experience with head and neck anatomy was: lots of tiny little things that don't make any sense and are all extremely easy to damage and really hard to remember.

One thing I would love to know is how they repair the more superficial cranial nerves in the case of massive trauma like that. I could barely keep CNV-Mandibular in one piece on a cadaver, not even going to guess how you do it on someone with half their face resected via 12ga.

My mother-in-law did much of her work as a maxillofacial surgeon in the ER at the Montefiore Hospital in the Bronx in the 70s and 80s. She refers to the place lovingly as the Knife and Gun Club. Oh the stories she can tell after a couple glasses of Merlot...

The "real" Knife and Gun club is actually where I am doing my preceptorship currently. It's the real one because someone wrote a book about it.

https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Knife_and_Gun_Club.html?id=QHoid2rLpEUC


Doc and I are good friends. Take my post with like 20 winking emotithings and dripping like fresh maple syrup in sarcasm. If my face ever ended up like the guy in the picture...DocGKR is who I would want trying to put the mess back together.

Oh I am sure - my post was mostly one of admiration for those who work above the clavicle. Like I said, it sounds about as much fun as picking up a spilled bag of rice with a pair of chopsticks.

[SMD]

A few years back, I ended up having to shoot a brown bear on Kodiak Island, while deer hunting. Given the interest in this subject, I copied the relevant part of the bear encounter from my report then, and am putting it here. Doesn't mean this was a typical encounter, but it was mine at that time.

Thanks for sharing. I hunted in grizz country for years, albeit in Montana's Bob Marshall Wilderness where the situation is much less fraught than up in Alaska. I count myself lucky to have never had a bear encounter that required gun shots to resolve. A few close calls did nudge me in the direction of the grand old 9.3x62 as my dedicated elk rifle, however.

[Chance]

My mother-in-law did much of her work as a maxillofacial surgeon in the ER at the Montefiore Hospital in the Bronx in the 70s and 80s. She refers to the place lovingly as the Knife and Gun Club. Oh the stories she can tell after a couple glasses of Merlot...

Get her a bottle and put her on YouTube. I'd eat that up.

[GJM]

Thanks for sharing. I hunted in grizz country for years, albeit in Montana's Bob Marshall Wilderness where the situation is much less fraught than up in Alaska. I count myself lucky to have never had a bear encounter that required gun shots to resolve. A few close calls did nudge me in the direction of the grand old 9.3x62 as my dedicated elk rifle, however.

A 9.3x62 makes a great medium caliber bolt gun. I have one on a pre-64 model 70 action, and another, a Sako 85 that I got from SteveB.


Great report.

Can you speculate how you may have chosen different options; especially the shoot options had you NOT been carrying a .375 but any of your alternative out and about guns? And alternately if you'd been out of reach of your long gun for some reason?

Biggest lesson learned, was two armed folks are exponentially better than one, and even a great buck isn't a reason to separate in bear country. With two of us, we might have looked like a harder target, and we would have options prior to the attack in the form of warming shots, and if things went south, to shoot the bear off of you.

Since we were hunting, we had bolt guns, fortunately a .375 H&H and .338 WM, but they bring limitations in capacity and speed of firing. If I only had a handgun, I would definitely have invested one or two warning shots, given my circumstances, as a bullet that turns a charge is the most effective. I think, if I had a Benelli, I would have shot a slug earlier to try to dissuade that bear. As it was, I was also carrying a G20 in a chest rig, and planned to ditch my bolt rifle if things went ECQC with the bear.

[Tamara]

...if things went ECQC with the bear.

<shudder>

[TR675]

...if things went ECQC with the bear.

Hey, hold on, Bear. [puts up fence]. Just hold up a minute. Stay back. I can't help you. Hey! STAY BACK. STAY THE FUCK BACK! GET BACK BEAR. [goes to default, head protection crouch]. HEY, WAIT...CRAIG! CRAIG! THE UNDERHOOKS, THEY DO NOTHING!!!

[Totem Polar]

Managing Ursine Contacts

[RJ]

A few years back, I ended up having to shoot a brown bear on Kodiak Island, while deer hunting. Given the interest in this subject, I copied the relevant part of the bear encounter from my report then, and am putting it here. Doesn't mean this was a typical encounter, but it was mine at that time.




Jeebus. I'd be needing a case of new underwear. Thanks for sharing.

[CS Tactical]

Just saw the first post, YIKES!

[GJM]

<shudder>

Tam, quite a number of these attacks become entangled, and that is why the longest running compilation of bear attacks indicates that handguns are slightly more effective than long guns in stopping attacks. All that accuracy and power of the long gun becoming less important than handiness and shoot speed when the distances are measured in inches.


Hey, hold on, Bear. [puts up fence]. Just hold up a minute. Stay back. I can't help you. Hey! STAY BACK. STAY THE FUCK BACK! GET BACK BEAR. [goes to default, head protection crouch].

This is actually pretty close as I will explain below.


Managing Ursine Contacts

OK, with the caveat that I am not a bear scientist, here is my take on managing ursine contacts. Bear attacks mostly fall into two categories. 1) the bump and scratch, where you surprise a bear, they maul you to stop the perceived threat, and run off. 2) the predatory attack, where the bear is determined to kill and then probably eat you. What confounds 1 and 2 above, is that bears are curious, and sometimes they approach you to check you out, with no intent to do the #1 or #2 attack scenarios. Bears have a right to be out there, and we don't shoot bears just for inhabiting the same space as you.

In the instance of my encounter on Kodiak while deer hunting, I saw the bear way off. That is why I stood up, so the bear could see me, and not be surprised by me. Next I started talking to the bear in a calm voice. As the bear approached closer, I assumed it was curious, and began raising my voice. Only inside 15 yards, when the bear crossed my line in the sand, I shot when I felt like I could no longer wait to see if it was a bluff charge related to curiosity.

Another complicating factor is some bears will discontinue an attack at a warning shot, other bears will discontinue an attack at a non-fatal shot, and some bears will only stop when they die. Depending upon which bear you encounter, you might win with a warning shot, win with just a superficial shot, or win only by penetrating the upper CNS.

When discussing this with the game biologist who interviewed me after my shooting, which is standard procedure in Alaska, he told me that the likely scenario was this. The bear I shot was a three year old female. Old enough to be on her own, but not fully versed in the way of the world. That bear was getting her ass kicked all summer by larger bears, and when she saw me, she thought "I can take that guy."

[scw2]

Totally ignorant about bears and hunting and stuff, but would an AR-type platform work well in this situation given the ability for more follow-up shots quickly if you start with (1) warning, then (2) shoot to wound, and finally (3) shoot to kill, or would the issue be stopping power if you got to stage 3?

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I feel like this is going to sound sarcastic because anyone who knows me in person knows that almost everything I say includes some level of sardonic humour. Consequently, I'm putting the disclaimer: this next single sentence is just flat honesty.

Man, doctors (maxillofacial-oral-surgical-dentists included, or however you guys self-identify) are the handiest damn people to have on tap for commentary on whether something is going to kill you, and how.




Although if you look at pic #1, something that jumps out even to people like me who concern themselves exclusively with keeping their own blood on the inside...that jacket is not covered in blood. In my limited experience, people who are going to die from traumatic injuries look like somebody hit them with a garden hose of blood. I guess there's such a thing as internal bleeding, and people die from that too, but I've never seen it so my frame of reference is just "if it looks like someone poured a gallon of blood everywhere, that's when somebody is dying". Otherwise they seem to pull through.

But I have maybe three or four industrial accidents to go by. I would guess anyone who works in an ER for a week has more experience than I do.

[GJM]

Totally ignorant about bears and hunting and stuff, but would an AR-type platform work well in this situation given the ability for more follow-up shots quickly if you start with (1) warning, then (2) shoot to wound, and finally (3) shoot to kill, or would the issue be stopping power if you got to stage 3?

I have heard it said that more grizzly bears are killed in native villages with .223 through the bear's neck out of a Mini 14, than any other caliber. Sometimes my wife carries a AR pistol in .300 BLK for the advantages you site, but in a bear defense long gun, I personally want enough power to shoot through bones and penetrate the brain or spine from any angle. My first choices are a shotgun with Brenneke slugs, a .45-70 with proper loads, or while hunting, a .375 H&H. I think the bolt gun shines in power, but isn't as good as a shotgun or lever gun in an entanglement.

[Shumba]

Until they aren't.

Black bear attacks generally don't garner the same level of attention, but they can be more dangerous in some ways because they tend to be predatory - not defensive in nature.

In other words, the Blackie doesn't just attack as an act of defense ...... he attacks with the intention of eating you.

I have experienced this, up close and personal.
They are completely unpredictable critters and here in PA a big boar will dress out north of 600 pounds.
Take no chances with any bear on this continent.
Shumba

[Nephrology]

Although if you look at pic #1, something that jumps out even to people like me who concern themselves exclusively with keeping their own blood on the inside...that jacket is not covered in blood. In my limited experience, people who are going to die from traumatic injuries look like somebody hit them with a garden hose of blood. I guess there's such a thing as internal bleeding, and people die from that too, but I've never seen it so my frame of reference is just "if it looks like someone poured a gallon of blood everywhere, that's when somebody is dying". Otherwise they seem to pull through.

But I have maybe three or four industrial accidents to go by. I would guess anyone who works in an ER for a week has more experience than I do.

In my (also relatively limited) experience, the single best and most obvious sign that someone is very seriously exsanguinated is the color of their skin. I have seen a lot of GSWs where there will be a single hole with not much blood on the exterior, but their toes are as pale as a bedsheet. Those are usually the patients who come in with or quickly develop traumatic cardiac arrest and end up getting emergent thoracotomies or REBOAs (depending on site of injury/surgeon's preference). The outcome on those is typically not too good.

I've also seen patients with a single GSW and not much blood who are pretty well perfused, talkative, normal blood pressures, not even really much internal bleeding, etc. All depends on where the bullet goes.

There are of course more specific signs that you can easily measure (pulses, BP, temp, physical exam of damaged compartment, ECHO/FAST, etc) but if you're just looking at a photo the color of their skin will be the most obvious sign to look for.

[RJ]

Participating in this thread gives me a different feeling for stopping and admiring the wildlife. I will definitely be in a different mindset the next time we join the crowds on the roadside along the Yellowstone River Valley road because "oh, look, a cute bear!"

I've asked GJM before about options in National Parks with bears in terms of bringing along a pistol.

Carrying a 9mm in such circumstances now reminds me of the Robin Williams quote about dealing with his son's first diaper: It's like handling radioactive waste with an oven mitt - no good!!

[HCM]

Participating in this thread gives me a different feeling for stopping and admiring the wildlife. I will definitely be in a different mindset the next time we join the crowds on the roadside along the Yellowstone River Valley road because "oh, look, a cute bear!"

I've asked GJM before about options in National Parks with bears in terms of bringing along a pistol.

Carrying a 9mm in such circumstances now reminds me of the Robin Williams quote about dealing with his son's first diaper: It's like handling radioactive waste with an oven mitt - no good!!

9mm is better than nothing - while it won't drop a bear and is less likely to penetrate the skull, you can use it for a warning shot and if that does not work, it will depend on how motivated the bear is. Bears don't like getting shot anymore than people do. Anything which makes them go away is a win.

As gruesome as the picture in the OP is I still consider people a bigger threat than bears.

[GJM]

Another complicating factor is some bears will discontinue an attack at a warning shot, other bears will discontinue an attack at a non-fatal shot, and some bears will only stop when they die. Depending upon which bear you encounter, you might win with a warning shot, win with just a superficial shot, or win only by penetrating the upper CNS.


Participating in this thread gives me a different feeling for stopping and admiring the wildlife. I will definitely be in a different mindset the next time we join the crowds on the roadside along the Yellowstone River Valley road because "oh, look, a cute bear!"

I've asked GJM before about options in National Parks with bears in terms of bringing along a pistol.

Carrying a 9mm in such circumstances now reminds me of the Robin Williams quote about dealing with his son's first diaper: It's like handling radioactive waste with an oven mitt - no good!!

Rich, I am not so sure. In many instances, a warning shot or non fatal body shot is enough to stop a bear attack. I would rather see you with your VP9 and a load like the Gold Dot 124+ P then some heavy magnum revolver that you have less skill with. Better yet, a 9mm and a canister of bear spray is probably a pretty good combo.

[chl442]

There are some environments that we are not naturally at the top of the food chain. Alaska and the ocean come to mind.

No kidding !
For some reason Great Whites plenty big enough to eat a human have started showing up around Florida
.As my cousin said not too long ago, I won't be too concerned about having to rinse the salt water out of my dive gear . I'll stick to flats fishing .....

[JCS]

Wow. That man is a fighter. Use this as a lesson to how much the human body can do if the mind wants to live. This can carry over into gunfights.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Malamute]

I was also carrying a G20 in a chest rig, and planned to ditch my bolt rifle if things went ECQC with the bear.

I sometimes carry the g19 in a back pocket with fmj loads, for use after the 348 or 45-70, and the Smith 29 have been used. I think of it as the "left arm in bears mouth while laying on ground under bear" gun, apply briskly under bears chin or side of head.


Participating in this thread gives me a different feeling for stopping and admiring the wildlife. I will definitely be in a different mindset the next time we join the crowds on the roadside along the Yellowstone River Valley road because "oh, look, a cute bear!"

I've asked GJM before about options in National Parks with bears in terms of bringing along a pistol.

Carrying a 9mm in such circumstances now reminds me of the Robin Williams quote about dealing with his son's first diaper: It's like handling radioactive waste with an oven mitt - no good!!

9mm isnt a first choice, but G is correct, anything you shoot well is better than something you don't shoot well, and anything you have is better than something you don't have at the moment. One of the issues with the huge "bear gun!!" pistols often suggested on forums. Many lose interest in carrying them pretty quickly due to the size and weight, besides the point that many don't shoot them enough to get very good with them.

[41magfan]

Some of you may recall this incident from 1987;

A Montana GW (Lou Kis) was releasing a nuisance bear that had been trapped and relocated when it decided it wanted a piece of him. The bear pulled the cage and Lou from the back of the truck and started chewing on his leg. Lou dispatched him with a S&W Model 66 and I seem to recall their issue load was a 158 gr JHP, but I'm not positive.

He emptied the gun but the first four rounds didn’t penetrate the skull. The fifth shot reportedly missed and the last shot went into the neck/throat and struck the spine for an instant stop.

I think a 9mm with a good penetrating load would work in the hands of someone with the wherewithal and opportunity to use it properly.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/921/denWgR.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pldenWgRj)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/921/R2tWOf.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plR2tWOfj)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/921/PDgJAE.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plPDgJAEj)

[GJM]

That looks like an entanglement.

[1slow]

That looks like an entanglement.
FUBT !

[Dagga Boy]

That looks like an entanglement.

Unless you call it a FUT, nobody here will understand what you mean.

[Duelist]

Unless you call it a FUT, nobody here will understand what you mean.

I don't know what FUT means ... Bear chewing on a guy's leg = entanglement, I can parse that. Grokking.

[SMD]

Gunwriter Brian Pearce interviewed Lou Kis as part of a larger article on handguns for self-protection in bear country. The killing shot sounds like it was a contact shot:

"His sixth shot was placed under the throat wherein the bullet managed to penetrate up to the axis joint (where the neck attaches to the skull) breaking it and the spine, killing the bear instantly."

A narrow and unlikely set of circumstances for sure, but in the instance of Kis' contact shot(s), I would happily forego every advantage of the semi-auto and opt for a revolver instead.


https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=627&magid=48#sthash.K71mHbAj.dpuf

[LSP552]

Gunwriter Brian Pearce interviewed Lou Kis as part of a larger article on handguns for self-protection in bear country. The killing shot sounds like it was a contact shot:

"His sixth shot was placed under the throat wherein the bullet managed to penetrate up to the axis joint (where the neck attaches to the skull) breaking it and the spine, killing the bear instantly."

A narrow and unlikely set of circumstances for sure, but in the instance of Kis' contact shot(s), I would happily forego every advantage of the semi-auto and opt for a revolver instead.


https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=627&magid=48#sthash.K71mHbAj.dpuf


Old school (non-bonded) .357 HPs were not known for deep penetration, relatively speaking. If I was carrying a .357 in bear country, I'd take a look at Federal's 180 gr. Cast Core load. I've actually given thought to carrying a .357 while dinking around in AK.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=327

[GJM]

Old school (non-bonded) .357 HPs were not known for deep penetration, relatively speaking. If I was carrying a .357 in bear country, I'd take a look at Federal's 180 gr. Cast Core load. I've actually given thought to carrying a .357 while dinking around in AK.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=327

As I believe I have mentioned previously, we keep a .357 revolver loaded with the Cast Core load, as a loaner for visiting females. :)

Kidding aside, if a 180 cast core penetrates to the upper CNS, I don't see it necessarily as a worse choice for defense, given it can be shot faster, and depending upon model, might carry extra cartridges.

[LSP552]

As I believe I have mentioned previously, we keep a .357 revolver loaded with the Cast Core load, as a loaner for visiting females. :)

Kidding aside, if a 180 cast core penetrates to the upper CNS, I don't see it necessarily as a worse choice for defense, given it can be shot faster, and depending upon model, might carry extra cartridges.

:D

I've thought about it as a good day hike and around town compromise, but normally bring my .45 Colt Ruger with handloads. The SA makes me a bit nervous, but I shoot it well. All I really want is a hard cast 10MM load that functions in a G20..........and to win the lottery.

[Tamara]

That looks like an entanglement.

That looks like a whole lotta nope. With a side of nope, sprinkled with "Indiana had one bear and we shot it (http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2016/04/12/indianas-first-black-bear-140-years-euthanized/82957442/) and now I'm glad." :eek:

[Tamara]

On the other hand, Indiana's lone bear was in the news long enough that I'm sure it justified the purchase of many a Raging Judge or .500 S&W on local gun fora... ;)

[Malamute]

Old school (non-bonded) .357 HPs were not known for deep penetration, relatively speaking. If I was carrying a .357 in bear country, I'd take a look at Federal's 180 gr. Cast Core load. I've actually given thought to carrying a .357 while dinking around in AK.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=327

I read several years ago comments from Phil Shoemaker that he carried a 357 with 180 or 200 gr cast loads for his backup bear gun (he was a bear guide at the time). He said the load would definitely kill a large bear of placed right. He ended up giving it to his daughter for her bear gun and went back to the 44 mag because it made him feel better.

I don't know how the Federal cast core bullets compare with a cast bullet for penetration and bullet integrity. If the cast core expands, its not likely to penetrate as well.

[Tamara]

I don't know how the Federal cast core bullets compare with a cast bullet for penetration and bullet integrity. If the cast core expands, its not likely to penetrate as well.

CastCore® bullets are hard-cast flat-meplat non-expanding unjacketed projectiles.

[BehindBlueI's]

That looks like a whole lotta nope. With a side of nope, sprinkled with "Indiana had one bear and we shot it (http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2016/04/12/indianas-first-black-bear-140-years-euthanized/82957442/) and now I'm glad." :eek:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/cardfight/images/c/c6/01-how-about-no-bear.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/640?cb=20130418123409

I'm good with bears. From a distance. With an appropriate level of electric fence.

[DacoRoman]

So for the puny little 9mm carried in bear country, ought one carry FMJ's ?

[GJM]

So for the puny little 9mm carried in bear country, ought one carry FMJ's ?

The problem, as Chuck Hazard has pointed out, is many of the FMJ loads are "bargain constructed," and penetrate less than a quality JHP load like the Gold Dot 124+P. Here is a penetrator load I am interested in:


https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=67


Sent from my iPhone

[HCM]

Putin doesn't have these Bear Phobias.

7748

7749

[Luke]

The problem, as Chuck Hazard has pointed out, is many of the FMJ loads are "bargain constructed," and penetrate less than a quality JHP load like the Gold Dot 124+P. Here is a penetrator load I am interested in:


https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=67


Sent from my iPhone


With a 1300fps I'm betting this would be the perfect woods ammo for a Roland specail.

[JHC]

The problem, as Chuck Hazard has pointed out, is many of the FMJ loads are "bargain constructed," and penetrate less than a quality JHP load like the Gold Dot 124+P. Here is a penetrator load I am interested in:


https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=67


Sent from my iPhone

I bought a few boxes of that last year before I stumbled across the G31. The slugs look like 124 FMJ with a small flat tip. Not much like the product photo.

I didn't find them to group well at 15 or 25 yards. Really bad actually.

[GJM]

I bought a few boxes of that last year before I stumbled across the G31. The slugs look like 124 FMJ with a small flat tip. Not much like the product photo.

I didn't find them to group well at 15 or 25 yards. Really bad actually.

Thanks for saving me time and money. Unless something new appears, I really like the Gold Dot 124+P and have vetted/zeroed that round in so many pistols, I am loath to change.

[DacoRoman]

The problem, as Chuck Hazard has pointed out, is many of the FMJ loads are "bargain constructed," and penetrate less than a quality JHP load like the Gold Dot 124+P. Here is a penetrator load I am interested in:


https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=67

Looks good. Thanks for the tip.


Sent from my iPhone

[SMD]

I bought a few boxes of that last year before I stumbled across the G31. The slugs look like 124 FMJ with a small flat tip. Not much like the product photo.

I didn't find them to group well at 15 or 25 yards. Really bad actually.

Thanks from me, too. It was on my watch list.

[scw2]

Chuck Hazard

Typo or intentional? Although, Chuck is probably a dangerous dude if you're a bad guy...

[GJM]

Typo or intentional? Although, Chuck is probably a dangerous dude if you're a bad guy...

That was my iPhone spelling for me, but I like "Chuck Hazard!"

[Tamara]

Typo or intentional? Although, Chuck is probably a dangerous dude if you're a bad guy...

Ducking Autocorrect! :D

[41magfan]

Until they aren't.

Black bear attacks generally don't garner the same level of attention, but they can be more dangerous in some ways because they tend to be predatory - not defensive in nature.

In other words, the Blackie doesn't just attack as an act of defense ...... he attacks with the intention of eating you.

This just happened this past Tuesday.

http://www.local8now.com/content/news/Spence-Field-backcountry-379205881.html

Habituated black bears are dangerous and very unpredictable.

[GJM]

More recent:


http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2016/05/18/juneau-man-says-hes-grateful-to-be-alive-after-brown-bear-mauling/


Sent from my iPad

[41magfan]

More recent:


http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2016/05/18/juneau-man-says-hes-grateful-to-be-alive-after-brown-bear-mauling/


Sent from my iPad

He had a gun and bear spray, but he didn't have it with him when he needed it. Like Uncle Ted usually says when he picks up one of his bloody arrows .... "Where have we seen this before?"

When I run across people that choose to be selectively armed - which is all the time - I always ask them how many times they've won the lottery. They usually get this dumb look on their face and reply that they've never won the lottery.

My response to that answer is always the same: "Then you might want to warm-up to the idea that your skill at predicting the winning numbers is no better than your notion about when you might need your gun."

[GJM]

Common occurrence that the long gun is in camp, against a stream bank, in the plane, etc, and you make a great point about being armed. Commonly, "experts" with zero Alaska experience recommend a long gun, usually with the comment that a handgun is useless on a grizzly. The reality is there are many times it is hard to do the task you are trying to accomplish while carrying a long gun.

Chilly morning here in AK, with frost even here at 1,500 feet MSL. Great USP weather!


http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsgldfwhpd.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsgldfwhpd.jpeg.html)

[GJM]

Not just bears:


http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/anchorage/2016/05/27/two-bicyclists-injured-in-coastal-trail-moose-attack/


Sent from my iPad

[41magfan]

This is a pretty amazing recovery, wouldn't you say?

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/921/Ggbvcn.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plGgbvcnj)

[OlongJohnson]

Reminds me of David E. Davis' stories about what he looked like after rolling a convertible in the '50s.

[VW.45]

Yeah, but,.....

https://www.google.com/search?q=rattlesnake+bite&biw=1093&bih=538&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiEsNGa28HMAhXHRyYKHaIlBdUQ_AUIBigB

Snake bites can be pretty wicked also.

Notice that most of those bites are on their hands. Why? Because retards try to pick them up. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes :p

[luckyman]

Notice that most of those bites are on their hands. Why? Because retards try to pick them up. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes :p

Hah reading this from tapatalk preview, didn't have the context we were not talking about bears anymore. That was sounding reallllllllllllly stupid :)