The skinny (or not so skinny) on belts...

[martin_j001]

Feel free to direct me to other threads on this topic if you think they'll help...

So in 2003 when I got into shooting, everyone around me was big fans of The Wilderness Instructor belts. Since then, I have worn one or another of their offerings, and have settled on the Frequent Flyer, 1.5", 5 stitch model. I'm a bigger guy...wear 42 or 44 size pants depending on brand, and my current belt is a 47 (probably a little longer than necessary, but works well for me). Just the other day, I purchased a Double Alpha Pro competition belt to be used for shooting matches...and it's very nice. I noticed that for the load I had in it to test (Glock 34 and 3 loaded mags), I did not have to have it cinched down super tight to hold that amount of gear. This feels somewhat opposite of what I experience with my daily carry (Glock 19 in Comp-Tac CTAC), or even for past matches with my usual belt, where I really have to cinch it down to keep things in place. It made me wonder if a stiffer, slightly thicker belt for every day wear and carry might not suit me better. Anyone else have a similar experience, or recommendations on other belts to consider? I like the nylon/velcro options as it doesn't limit me to holes that already exist and may not be in the absolute perfect spot for me... Appreciate any advice (and just to cover the bases, losing weight is in process, but complicated a bit more by being a 30+ year veteran of type 1 diabetes :) ).

[Glenn E. Meyer]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?20094-Nextbelt&highlight=belts
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16830-I-need-a-new-belt&highlight=belts

I've used Galco belts but I've added Perry suspenders. http://www.perrysuspenders.com/ . They avoid the sausage muffin squeeze technique for my beefalo physique (a term from Dave Spaulding).

They even have shoulder holster models - not that I do that.

In the recent issue of SWAT, in a class description - the author described how when on the run, his pants hit the dirt but he carried through.

[orionz06]

Tension, stiffness, and flexibility all balance out based on supported weight, waist size and shape, and carry position.

The stiffer the belt the less tension you'll need, generally. This does work against some holsters though and can make a good holster not conceal.


Sent from my Nokia 3310 using an owl

[SLG]

Tension, stiffness, and flexibility all balance out based on supported weight, waist size and shape, and carry position.

The stiffer the belt the less tension you'll need, generally. This does work against some holsters though and can make a good holster not conceal.


Sent from my Nokia 3310 using an owl

Good stuff. Very personal combination for comfort and effectiveness.

[martin_j001]

Thanks for the links. And yeah, I've always been afraid of going with something stiffer for fear that if I had to wear it as tight I'd be strangling my guts with it, but now having tried super-stiff, I wonder if it might not help some. To add more info for anyone else who feels like chiming in, I carry at 3-4 o'clock, almost always IWB these days (OWB only when I'm doing yard work, or in colder months when I know I won't be removing a jacket). I carry my G34 at times in a Raven Phantom, and have a Raven Eidolon that I can carry either the G19 or G34 in, and also the CTAC for the 19. I do notice a little more or less need to really snug the belt down depending on where I position the holster...closer to 5 o'clock and I seem to have more issues (added to the fact it doesn't conceal well on my frame there).

[SLG]

I do notice a little more or less need to really snug the belt down depending on where I position the holster...closer to 5 o'clock and I seem to have more issues (added to the fact it doesn't conceal well on my frame there).

I am built to carry a gun. Anyway you look at it, my body helps me carry. I don't mention this to boast, but to acknowledge that I have it easy compared to many others. Nonetheless, AIWB requires much less tension for me, and results in much more long term comfort than standard IWB positions. I'm not trying to convert you, just that your last sentence resonated.

[psalms144.1]

Martin - Type II here, and ALWAYS struggling (recently with little success) to manage my weight. I ditched the FF belts a while back due to goofy looks. I've used any number of belts in the interim, but the best so far has been the Volund G-hook for me. Infinitely adjustable, stiff enough to hold everything where I want it without cutting off blood flow to my legs.

BUT, as has been pointed out above, this is a HUGELY personal issue, and has a lot to do with how you dress and carry as well. For instance, my summer weight "casual" work pants are ripstop nylon, and "slick." When worn over a tucked in Underarmour t-shirt, there's not a belt in the universe that will keep them from wanting to slide off my non-existent butt. Jeans are no problem, but poly on poly becomes an issue...

[martin_j001]

I'm not trying to convert you, just that your last sentence resonated.

I have attempted to set up my Eidolon for IWB, as it was designed for this, but to no avail. I wear my pants below my gut, which causes problems when sitting at the very least, and very much causes the muzzle to be pointed more "inboard" than I'd like. It's likely that another combination of holster, belt, etc would work for me, but due to my body shape and all I haven't spent much time or money looking for that option. I do not disagree that there are benefits to be had for sure, though.


Martin - Type II here, and ALWAYS struggling (recently with little success) to manage my weight. I ditched the FF belts a while back due to goofy looks. I've used any number of belts in the interim, but the best so far has been the Volund G-hook for me. Infinitely adjustable, stiff enough to hold everything where I want it without cutting off blood flow to my legs.

BUT, as has been pointed out above, this is a HUGELY personal issue, and has a lot to do with how you dress and carry as well. For instance, my summer weight "casual" work pants are ripstop nylon, and "slick." When worn over a tucked in Underarmour t-shirt, there's not a belt in the universe that will keep them from wanting to slide off my non-existent butt. Jeans are no problem, but poly on poly becomes an issue...

I wear the same material for boxers too, and even with Duluth's Flex pants, the combo is a little slick. The Volund G-Hook is one that keeps coming up, so is definitely being added to the "research more" list.

[Steven T]

martin_j001 I wear a 36/38 pants and have the Volund G-Hook. The belt is excellent but I find the hook a little annoying to hook. This is because my belly gets in the way.
I sit for 11-13 hours a day when I work and its a little annoying on the gut because it's pretty stiff. I do use it as a range belt and it's excellent for that role.
I also use the Wilderness Frequent Flyer 1.5 " 5 stitch and find it to be the most comfortable for me as a daily wear belt. Note I can't carry at work so I don't have much info on that.
Just my observations and opinions.

[That Guy]

To the OP: it sounds like you might like the Ares Gear Aegis Belt quite a lot.

[martin_j001]

I've added Perry suspenders. http://www.perrysuspenders.com/ . They avoid the sausage muffin squeeze technique for my beefalo physique (a term from Dave Spaulding).


I have a friend who recently went this route as well, and it may be something I'm going to have to give a try myself. I'd have to avoid the Y shape ones though, as many of my current pants/shorts have a thicker/longer belt loop that is centered in the back.


martin_j001 I wear a 36/38 pants and have the Volund G-Hook. The belt is excellent but I find the hook a little annoying to hook. This is because my belly gets in the way.
I sit for 11-13 hours a day when I work and its a little annoying on the gut because it's pretty stiff. I do use it as a range belt and it's excellent for that role.
I also use the Wilderness Frequent Flyer 1.5 " 5 stitch and find it to be the most comfortable for me as a daily wear belt. Note I can't carry at work so I don't have much info on that.
Just my observations and opinions.

I'm in a similar boat--can't carry at work, and also find a large metal buckle to be annoying as it digs into the gut (if worn front dead center), hence the switch years ago from Wilderness Instructor to FF.

I guess I should also add that for all but shooting, I tend to wear my shirts untucked...so the style/look of the belt, or location of the buckle is not as big of a deal in the end...

[martin_j001]

To the OP: it sounds like you might like the Ares Gear Aegis Belt quite a lot.

Missed this yesterday...definitely one that has my interest. I have heard some recommend the enhanced version for the added stiffness. Anyone have experience with both the standard and enhanced and able to offer any insight?

[BobLoblaw]

Missed this yesterday...definitely one that has my interest. I have heard some recommend the enhanced version for the added stiffness. Anyone have experience with both the standard and enhanced and able to offer any insight?

I have both. Many AIWB holster loops will print while wearing the standard because it is so thin. The enhanced does offer some added stability, especially if OWB. It's also easier to undo the buckle on the enhanced. The standard gets locked in so tight it's sometimes a hassle to take it off. The extra couple $ are worth it IMO.

[CSW]

Martin:
Another Type II here.
Though it has taken many years, I have my weight 'managed'. I'm 5'8" and at my biggest, was 280!!!! Way too big for my frame [and heart].
Thru my DR and a lot of hard work, I've got it to 190lb.
Choosing a belt was a process. I too went to Wilderness, going 5 stitch, 1.75". It worked well while not carrying, but when carrying [appendix], well, it was just jabbin' me with the buckle, gun and the like. I prefer to think that the trouble was, just too much me!
I tried a FF, and was not impressed. Tried a 511, it sucked.

When I got down to 210, I went to a 3 stitch Instructors, which has been perfect for my CC need, carrying a G17 appendix just about everyday.
So much so I purchased an Instructors in 3 stitch, 1.5", for summer carry/shorts/etc....
I too have been looking at the G hook, but would like to see one, and try one before.....
Belts are as subjective as holsters. Good luck with your endeavor.

[vcdgrips]

FF 5 stich with the CSM insert for casual
1.5 Liger for dress
Old school dress is a 1.5 inch tapering to 1.25 2 ply leather gunbelt from Rafter S

All will work for AIWB w a G35/34 though I find myself wearing the FFs more and more

[martin_j001]

Ended up snagging an Aegis Enhanced from Larue to try out. Should be here in a few days.

Got a chance to get out to the range over the weekend with the new Double Alpha belt for competition and am very happy with it.

[VolGrad]

martin_j001 I wear a 36/38 pants and have the Volund G-Hook. The belt is excellent but I find the hook a little annoying to hook. This is because my belly gets in the way.
I sit for 11-13 hours a day when I work and its a little annoying on the gut because it's pretty stiff. I do use it as a range belt and it's excellent for that role.
I also use the Wilderness Frequent Flyer 1.5 " 5 stitch and find it to be the most comfortable for me as a daily wear belt. Note I can't carry at work so I don't have much info on that.
Just my observations and opinions.
Jeff - you know me and how I'm built and carry so I'll chime in as well. I usually wear a 34" waist pant and wear a Frequent Flyer 1.5" almost daily. It's just too easy to carry - light weight and quick on/off. I do notice sometimes I have to snug it down harder than I like though. I used to wear 5 Stitch belts but frankly hate the heavy buckle and the belts always felt overly stiff - but prob did carry better. I have a Volund (used to have a couple) but the only time I wear them is for IDPA matches. I too find the buckle overly difficult to get on/off due mostly to my belly and having to adjust the tension looser to get it buckled, then tighten it back up.

[Ntexwheels]

I had to go the belt and suspenders route 3 years ago after being nearly cut in half for Cancer surgery.

A belt by itself was too painful when tight enough to weapon, holster and extra mags. So I added suspenders and was able to loosen the belt up.

Now after 3 years I find the combination gives much more consistent support than just a belt alone.

The belt I use by the way is this one:
http://akerleather.com/off-duty-belts/off-duty-belts/B21/concealed-carry-gun-belt.html

[43Under]

I have both. Many AIWB holster loops will print while wearing the standard because it is so thin. The enhanced does offer some added stability, especially if OWB. It's also easier to undo the buckle on the enhanced. The standard gets locked in so tight it's sometimes a hassle to take it off. The extra couple $ are worth it IMO.

I have that same issue with it being difficult to unbuckle, but with the enhanced. A bit annoying, but glad to see I'm not the only one. Really like the belt though:

https://civiliangunfighter.wordpress.com/2016/05/05/equipment-review-ares-gear-enhanced-aegis-belt/

[martin_j001]

Jeff - you know me and how I'm built and carry so I'll chime in as well. I usually wear a 34" waist pant and wear a Frequent Flyer 1.5" almost daily. It's just too easy to carry - light weight and quick on/off. I do notice sometimes I have to snug it down harder than I like though. I used to wear 5 Stitch belts but frankly hate the heavy buckle and the belts always felt overly stiff - but prob did carry better. I have a Volund (used to have a couple) but the only time I wear them is for IDPA matches. I too find the buckle overly difficult to get on/off due mostly to my belly and having to adjust the tension looser to get it buckled, then tighten it back up.

Thanks for the info. Yeah, the Volund is pretty popular, but it sounds a little too close to what I'm already using (Wilderness FF 5 stitch) to be a worthy upgrade. And you're not the first who has mentioned that the buckle can be a pain to deal with.


I had to go the belt and suspenders route 3 years ago after being nearly cut in half for Cancer surgery.

A belt by itself was too painful when tight enough to weapon, holster and extra mags. So I added suspenders and was able to loosen the belt up.

Now after 3 years I find the combination gives much more consistent support than just a belt alone.

The belt I use by the way is this one:
http://akerleather.com/off-duty-belts/off-duty-belts/B21/concealed-carry-gun-belt.html

This may be the route I end up going in the end... As I said earlier a friend recently got some suspenders too, and he's been quite happy with them.


I have that same issue with it being difficult to unbuckle, but with the enhanced. A bit annoying, but glad to see I'm not the only one. Really like the belt though:

https://civiliangunfighter.wordpress.com/2016/05/05/equipment-review-ares-gear-enhanced-aegis-belt/

Thanks for the link. I'll be wary of snugging it down too tightly just in case the buckle wants to lock up! When you need to get it undone quickly, it's usually not optional at that moment!

[dalejbrass]

Look no further than these two: IMO - hands down best belts out there. The Ares Aegis belt can double as EDC or Competition.

http://www.aresgear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=99_108&products_id=454

My current favorite everyday belt here: Mean Gene Leather. I have one in brown and black and use them to carry AIWB everyday. IMO by far superior and better looking than anything else on the market and they should last forever
http://www.meangeneleather.com/

As you can see, Mean Gene uses the Ares buckle on his belts and they are awesome. No more worrying about belt buckle holes and all that stuff. Just slide belt on, adjust buckle to the tension you like and give the pin a little push and you are done.

[Larry Sellers]

I've tried an Aegis, volund g hook in both slim and standard as well as a wilderness 5 stitch. The 5 stitch has been the hands down winner. The others are either way way too stiff or they lack the vertical support. My next trip into the fray is going to be a wilderness FF belt in 5 stitch. I carry AIWB and need a little flexibility in the belt.

[That Guy]

My current favorite everyday belt here: Mean Gene Leather.

I've been wondering about those. How would you say the belt stiffness compares to a Aegis belt?

[rob_s]

I've said this before, but there are two "stiffness" factors to consider when choosing a belt. One is vertical stiffness, or how resistant it is to rolling/folding in the the vertical, short, direction. The other is bending stiffness, or how resistant it is to bending in the long direction around your waist. In my opinion, having a high stiffness in the former and a low stiffness in the latter is preferable when it comes to a carry belt for your average suburbanite who is probably spending more time sitting at a desk than standing during the day, in and out of the car, commuting, playing with kids, etc.

When it comes to a purely competition belt, there are some advantages to bending stiffness, which is why you see the CR Speed-type belts in USPSA.

The belt world went full-retard on all-around stiffness a couple of years back, and finally seems to be coming around. IMO, a bunch of guys that lived unique lives not typical of their audience (professional trainers, retirees, bloggers, professional internet/radio/youtube personalities, even some LE and MIL, etc.) set the criteria, and now the regular guys that tried to follow their advice have realized that maybe what works for those guys doesn't work in the minivan and at the desk.

There is a third factor, for me, which is the buckle design. I find that The Wilderness (http://www.thewilderness.com/tactical-belts/original-instructor-belt/) has hit it out of the park balancing vertical and bending stiffness with their five-stitch belts, but I wish they offered a different buckle option. Typically when I say that people respond with things like "how many times a day are you taking your belt on and off?", and that may be a valid point, but it doesn't mean that a better buckle wouldn't be better. The Cobra buckles are nice, IMO, because they offer the unlimited adjust-ability but still retain the ability to easily open the fly or remove the pants. But they are expensive, and bulky, and are starting to become dork-attracters (i.e. "hey, you got a Cobra buckle, you must be into guns and shooting, let me tell you about my Bryco-Jennings!"). The Aegis (http://www.aresgear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=454) buckle is also full-retard in terms of bulk.

I've also noticed a lot of guys returning to leather. It's my preference, by far, for every day as I can have one belt for carry and non, and a properly broken-in version also perfectly balances vertical and bending stiffness. Obviously the fixed holes means a lack of infinite adjustability, but getting the belt with 3/4" hole spacing helps with that. Lots of guys have preferences for various boutique versions, but I find The Beltman (http://www.thebeltman.net/www/htdocs/index.html) more than serviceable and long-lived.

[That Guy]

Yeah well, I love my Aegis belt. Love the stiffness, love the buckle. Only thing is, darn thing is made out of nylon - sometimes, I'd like a dressier (ie. leather) belt. Hence my question.

[martin_j001]

My Aegis Enhanced belt (black with black buckle) arrived yesterday. So far, I'm happy. It is definitely stiffer than my previous Wilderness FF (5 stitch) models--both vertically and horizontally. The buckle is indeed large, and certainly would be noticeable if I wore it with shirts tucked in all the time--luckily I do not have to do that, so the buckle plays less of a role in my decision. I appreciate the lack of velcro (adjusting the belt can be done much more quietly), and the less overlap of the belt end is convenient too (I have only a few inches of material through the buckle). So far, in the small amount of time I've spent wearing this so far I can sum up the feeling of carrying a gun this way: with the FF belt, I felt as if I was using the belt to hug the gun to me as tightly as possible to hold it up. With the Aegis Enhanced, it feels more like I'm letting the belt do the work of holding the gun up (belt is looser, but stiffer so it supports the weight better. For those who hike/backpack, a very similar feeling as to when you finally get a pack that fits you right...

[dalejbrass]

I've been wondering about those. How would you say the belt stiffness compares to a Aegis belt?

Tony - Not nearly as stiff as the Aegis. As you know, it is "very" stiff. I've been wearing one of my Mean Gene belts everyday for almost a year now and love them. They are stiff enough to hold up your pants and keep gear from folding over. If I can put this into words.......I'd say they feel relatively flexible and soft if you were to fold it in half to say, spank someone. Ha. Yet, pretty stiff if you have it on and grab the top of the belt at 3 oclock and tried to pull down. The belt is a little softer nearer the buckle. I'm pretty sure he puts kydex between the leather.

Hope this helps. Oh and btw - if anyone decides to order, read his instructions very carefully or your going to end up with a belt much too large. Example - I wear a 36" waist and ordered a 37" belt and it is perfect.