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View Full Version : Working Up a New Load (Win231/HP-38)



Sal Picante
05-02-2016, 12:08 AM
I've been experimenting with different powders after an unexpected sponsorship by SNS Casting. On my own, I've been using 124gr Precision Delta JHP's with ~4.0gr of Titegroup, which is a great "known" 124gr 9mm action pistol loading: Accurate, clean, makes power, and easy to get along with. This loading, however, with coated bullets is problematic because of smoke; Titegroup burns hot and it has a tendency to scorch the coating/lead, generating smoke and, sometimes, odd accuracy issues in some pistol (tumbling, erratic spread).

I worked my way back through a few other go-to powders: AA#2, AA#5, CFE, Power Pistol, Unique, and Bullseye. All of which seemed good, but somehow deficient (smokey, dirty at minor power factor, too hot at clean loadings, and simply "fuck Unique"). I settled on AA#2, which exhibits some pressure signs at minor loadings and is rather smokey, but feels pretty decent and meters like a dream (fine spherical powder). The search, however, was not over...

In conversation with my buddy Jeff Hicks, he recommended Win 231/Hogdon HP-38. Checking Enos forums and a few other spots, it seemed to be a good "known" 124gr action pistol loading. Someone related how Win 231 seemed to fall out of favor after people discovered Titegroup and Vhitavouri N320 , mainly because Titegroup and N320 are rather temperature stable and clean burning with JHPs. About a week ago, while hanging out at Cabela's with the daughter, I found a few pounds of the stuff and it hit me that I should try this out. It also hit me then, that I should take some pictures and explain my process for anyone curious...

(BTW - So is it Win 231 or HP-38?
Well, it seems Hogdon makes the stuff and Winchester rebrands it as "Win 231" when they sell it, otherwise, it is known also as Hogdon HP-38.
The powder is a spherical (flakes instead of round ball) and is pretty fine stuff. It meters well though the Dillon powder measure.)


Time is at a Premium
Since having my daughter, time is at a premium. In short, I'd rather be practicing or taking her out to the park than tinkering with loading data. To me, loading is just a means to an end and the sooner I find something workable, the sooner I can get back to doing what really matters

Given that, I prefer to do all my chronographing and accuracy testing in one session.

I found a load spectrum in Modern Reloading and just sorta figured I'd start a load spectrum at 4.0gr and work up in 0.2 gr increments until I hit 4.8gr. This has been my go-to method when developing new loads: start at the bottom of a spectrum and just keep going in .2 gr increments until you hit close to the published max loading.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/731798/PF/Loaddev/Photo%20Apr%2030%2C%2010%2016%2020%20PM.jpg

The lowest published loading I found was 3.6gr, but I knew from some reading that that loading would probably be too light - better to start at 4 and work up.

I'll load 20 cartridges in each loading:

5 x I'll use with the chrono to test at ambient (68F in the range) temperature
5 x I'll chill in the fridge and test at ~40F temperature.
5 x I'll encase in a ziploc, submerge in hot tap water and test at an elevated temperature (90F in this case)
5 x I'll assess accuracy with, shooting off of bags. If the group is bigger than 4" it fails.


I'll also load up ~50 of the "popular" loading on Enos (I think it was 4.2gr) and test subjectively; Does it feel right? Do the sights snap back "right" on Bill Drills? Can I split reliably with this loading?

I may also take a few and run 'em through the match gun to ensure that the chrono is reading the same value...


Equipment
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/731798/PF/Loaddev/Photo%20May%2001%2C%2012%2025%2019%20AM.jpg

I do all my load development on my Dillon "450": The machine started as a 450, then was converted to a 550 by the previous owner. (I got it for a steal, but then took about 2 years before I even had the gall to start reloading - I didn't have very many people help me get started...)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/731798/PF/Loaddev/Photo%20May%2001%2C%2012%2025%2032%20AM.jpg

I love the machine for its simplicity - 550's are very easy to get setup and, since they have a simple "shuttle bar" primer system, make them super easy to use for swapping loadings around. i.e. Cycling the mechanism won't spit primers out the bottom.

I use the same dies as on my 1050:

Redding Micrometer Competition seating die - makes changing the depth a snap.
Lee Factory Crimp die - just works well.
Lee 9mm Sizing/decapping die - I love the way the decapping pin system works...


The only additional "feature" I've got on the 550 is the Micrometer Powder Bar Kit from UniqueTek (http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1231): The part replaces the stock Dillon powder bar adjustment screw with a smooth, micrometer system.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/731798/PF/Loaddev/Photo%20Apr%2030%2C%209%2028%2044%20PM.jpg

Essentially, I can take charge weights at several known micrometer settings, then work up a spreadsheet/trendline and work back to figure out where the micrometer should be to effect a certain charge weights.

Coupled to the 550, the micrometer powder bar lets me to load 20 at 4.0, change the micrometer setting, hand cycle the press a few times to settle the charge "throw", then just keep loading another 20 at the new setting, repeating for each of the setting adjustments, until all loadings are done. Super quick.

Loading the 182 rounds that I brought to the range took ~30 minutes, including the time to weight powder charges, etc.


At the Range

I setup my chrono and cycle through the loadings, collecting the High, Low, Average, SD and figuring out the Power Factor for each loading. I repeat with the cold ammo (in a cooler) and the hot ammo (still bundled int he ziplock).

I then sit behind some sandbags at 15 yards and shoot 5 shot groups, slow fire, using an aiming reference. I just want to see if the 5 shot group forms a pattern, throws flyers, has vertical stringing, or looks like buckshot. (With HP-38, 4.4 seemed to group really well while feeling like a decent action pistol load - supported by the low Std. Deviation of velocities)

For qualitative testing, I'll just load up several mags and do some 2, 3, 6 shot strings and see how the sights track at 7 yards. Just burning ammo and getting a feel, really...

In all, I was in and out of the range from 6AM to 7:40 AM (including cleanup and the drug-like lure of Sports Shooting USA for ~10 minutes) and home by 8AM.


Findings

So if you're reading this just to get an idea about Win231/HP-38, here you go:

Summary:

Using a pair of Beretta Wilson 92G's, I found no difference between the velocities of HP-38 ammunition at 40F, 68F and 90F
Accuracy at 4.4gr of loading seemed to be the best tradeoff for recoil/accuracy.
Standard deviation drops from 4.2 --> 4.4, remains low for 4.6, then increases again...


CCI SPP
Mixed Brass
124 gr SNS Coated (Old Style) loaded to 1.125"

4.0gr HP-38
Hi: 1013
Lo: 962
Av: 989
Sd: 19.0
PF: 122
Accuracy: >4" at 15 yards.

4.2gr HP-38
Hi: 1067
Lo: 1032
Av: 1051
Sd: 15.5
PF: 130
Accuracy: OK at 15 yards. Right at 4" margin.

4.4gr HP-38
Hi: 1089
Lo: 1073
Av: 1080
Sd: 5.5
PF: 134
Accuracy: <2" at 15 yards. 3 bullets touching. 2 just out.

4.6gr HP-38
Hi: 1121
Lo: 1105
Av: 1114
Sd: 5.2
PF: 138
Accuracy: <2" at 15 yards. A bit stout.

4.8gr HP-38
Hi: 1166
Lo: 1127
Av: 1144
Sd: 12.8
PF: 141
Accuracy: <4". Harsh loading.

jeep45238
05-02-2016, 12:32 AM
Interesting on the std dev., I appreciate your detail in your work up.

231's been my go-to for years for it's flexibility with plated/fmj/cast.

SLG
05-02-2016, 08:05 AM
That was pretty interesting to read, thanks. You are very efficient at loading and testing. It takes me much longer than 30 mins to work up 182 rds for testing...:-(

Sal Picante
05-02-2016, 10:53 AM
That was pretty interesting to read, thanks. You are very efficient at loading and testing. It takes me much longer than 30 mins to work up 182 rds for testing...:-(

Turrets FTMFW!

;)

Wasn't your wife on the cover of Dillon's Blue Press? Can't they comp you guys a 550 or something?