Palm knives, Push Daggers

[UNK]

Does anyone have opinions or experience with these knives?
Benchmade, Gerber Cold Steel Special Circumstances United Cutlery MTech are a few that I saw.
There are quite a few different handle types and a wide range of blade lengths.
I saw a video by Lynn Thompson where he stated that they were the easiest type of knives to use for a non trained person and that they fit well into a boxing type application.


http://youtu.be/PucS-vjTCsk

[SLG]

I would agree about ease of use. I have, or have used most of the ones you mentioned. I designed one years ago that is still in production.

An asymmetrical handle offers the most benefit for grip, and the earliest one I was aware of was the Benchmade Kuma Zume. Shorter blades are better, in this case, and I would not want one longer than about 2.5". Others may prefer something else.

I know Southnarc and DI1 both have some good thoughts on these things, so maybe they will chime in.

[UNK]

I would agree about ease of use. I have, or have used most of the ones you mentioned. I designed one years ago that is still in production.

An asymmetrical handle offers the most benefit for grip, and the earliest one I was aware of was the Benchmade Kuma Zume. Shorter blades are better, in this case, and I would not want one longer than about 2.5". Others may prefer something else.

I know Southnarc and DI1 both have some good thoughts on these things, so maybe they will chime in.

I would like to see it. Can you post a link?

7314


Shivworks/Watson Pushdagger

Many of you have already seen the pushdagger that was mentioned on these pages several months ago. At the time of publication, Joe told me he was seeking the input of Craig Douglas (AKA Southnarc). That has now been made official. Douglas is a gifted trainer and has designed several successful self-defense oriented knives himself. He knows how to make push knives work. With Joe Watson’s design and Craig Douglas’ input, this knife will definitely be on point.

Above from here http://jerkingthetrigger.com/tag/joe-watson-knives/

[voodoo_man]

Depending on the reason you carry a blade, the "push dagger" style blades may be exactly is required.

For me, personally, I have found them cumbersome and unpleasant to carry, even in overtly. It lacks the ability (in my opinion) to conceal better than other types of blades out there (consider a cold steel tokyo spike (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=as_li_qf_sp_sr_il_tl?&keywords=tokyo%20spike) for example but with an aftermarket sheath) which conceal really well and are very easy to deploy.

[SLG]

I would like to see it. Can you post a link?

7314


Shivworks/Watson Pushdagger

Many of you have already seen the pushdagger that was mentioned on these pages several months ago. At the time of publication, Joe told me he was seeking the input of Craig Douglas (AKA Southnarc). That has now been made official. Douglas is a gifted trainer and has designed several successful self-defense oriented knives himself. He knows how to make push knives work. With Joe Watson’s design and Craig Douglas’ input, this knife will definitely be on point.

Above from here http://jerkingthetrigger.com/tag/joe-watson-knives/

I got to play with that briefly the other day when Southnarc showed it to me. It is an updated version of the one I did years ago. I don't mean to imply anything by that at all. All knives are variations on a theme. I took my idea from the Kuma Zume, and fixed the blade issues that that knife has. This one looks and feels better than mine.

I can't find a pic of the exact knife now, and it may be out of production. Wilson Combat made it. Here is a slight variation on it. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/995573-Brand-New-Wilson-Combat-Wilson-Tactical-Knives-Model-21-Push-Dagger

It was this knife, with a better handle like the one above. http://www.arizonacustomknives.com/product.aspx?ProductID=135754&ReturnUrl=/Wilson-Tactical.aspx?product-listing.aspx

[UNK]

Thanks for the straight forward answer. I don't know why but it seems to my completely untrained eye that type of handle blade relationship would be better than the blade situated in the middle of the T. However I know Watson's prices and unless this becomes a production version like the Clinch Pick I doubt I will be willing to spend the funds to obtain one.
What are your personal choices in the production arena?


I got to play with that briefly the other day when Southnarc showed it to me. It is an updated version of the one I did years ago. I don't mean to imply anything by that at all. All knives are variations on a theme. I took my idea from the Kuma Zume, and fixed the blade issues that that knife has. This one looks and feels better than mine.

I can't find a pic of the exact knife now, and it may be out of production. Wilson Combat made it. Here is a slight variation on it. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/995573-Brand-New-Wilson-Combat-Wilson-Tactical-Knives-Model-21-Push-Dagger

It was this knife, with a better handle like the one above. http://www.arizonacustomknives.com/product.aspx?ProductID=135754&ReturnUrl=/Wilson-Tactical.aspx?product-listing.aspx

[UNK]

Thanks for the good info as always. I am really looking for front pocket carry. I am wondering if the Tokyo spike is too long for that. Also it seems like there is nothing there to keep your hand from sliding up the blade. Is the Rat a front pocket sized knife? ETA Never mind I didn't look close enough. I see now it does have a finger choil.


Depending on the reason you carry a blade, the "push dagger" style blades may be exactly is required.

For me, personally, I have found them cumbersome and unpleasant to carry, even in overtly. It lacks the ability (in my opinion) to conceal better than other types of blades out there (consider a cold steel tokyo spike (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=as_li_qf_sp_sr_il_tl?&keywords=tokyo%20spike) for example but with an aftermarket sheath) which conceal really well and are very easy to deploy.

[voodoo_man]

Thanks for the good info as always. I am really looking for front pocket carry. I am wondering if the Tokyo spike is too long for that. Also it seems like there is nothing there to keep your hand from sliding up the blade. Is the Rat a front pocket sized knife? ETA Never mind I didn't look close enough. I see now it does have a finger choil.

I use it as an example because I carried one with a belt clip, AIWB, for a while it works really well if you thumb-cap the end of it. It's more of a "spike and forget" type of tool so you really have to target your strikes well. It conceals really well and almost as well as the Rat blade does now (though my experience with the spike is years before the Rat, or even the bloodshark).

[1slow]

Make sure the push knife you get has the handle spaced far enough from the back of the blade. This keeps you from hurting your fingers when you hit something hard.
Do you want a handle that is asymmetrical or symmetrical. Greater grip vs. being able to grab it with either hand from any carry position.

[UNK]

Make sure the push knife you get has the handle spaced far enough from the back of the blade. This keeps you from hurting your fingers when you hit something hard.
Do you want a handle that is asymmetrical or symmetrical. Greater grip vs. being able to grab it with either hand from any carry position.

I was thinking weak hand front pocket. I don't know if it makes any difference but I wear XLarge gloves.

[SLG]

Thanks for the straight forward answer. I don't know why but it seems to my completely untrained eye that type of handle blade relationship would be better than the blade situated in the middle of the T. However I know Watson's prices and unless this becomes a production version like the Clinch Pick I doubt I will be willing to spend the funds to obtain one.
What are your personal choices in the production arena?

Sorry, I have not carried a push dagger in many years, and actually designed the WC one for a friend of mine who was overseas at the time. I am not really up on the production stuff today, though I bet others are.

[MVS]

I thought Paul Sharp had a little video on push daggers but the heck if I can find it now. I will say after training with him a number of times that he carries and uses push daggers. He has mentioned that he especially prefers them because of his boxing background. YMMV, mine does.

[orionz06]

The Ban Tang UGI is worth looking into. I have one but haven't been able to work any reps with it. It can work on the MDTS/RCS Pocket Shield quite well. In training against it the thing comes out very easily.

http://i.imgur.com/qUq8LA9l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Iaj96yIl.jpg

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1078518-Universal-Grip-Implement

[UNK]

The Ban Tang UGI is worth looking into. I have one but haven't been able to work any reps with it. It can work on the MDTS/RCS Pocket Shield quite well. In training against it the thing comes out very easily.

So were these ever a production item or you have one of two ever made? :cool:

[Blades]

I like the S.O.B. Puncher (http://www.sobmanswag.com/collections/tools-1/products/s-o-b-puncher-gen-2?variant=3841785665), but don't own one yet, does anybody have one?

[orionz06]

So were these ever a production item or you have one of two ever made? :cool:

Email Ban, he made mine recently and two friends grabbed them as well.

[DI1]

SLG is correct, you want an asymmetric handle design and a shorter blade.
I've had lots of push daggers in the past, sold most of them off.
The Watson/Shivworks is probably the best one out there right now.
I got to handle one in person and was very impressed.
The Steve Ryan/Surefire one can be found on eBay and is ok, but you'll need a new sheath for it and it only works with your Right hand.

I have a couple of the SOB punchers for specific environments, they will do the job, but would not be my first choice.

Also, just keep in mind that your prosecutor will not look very favorably at push daggers and they are specifically outlawed in many locations.

[DI1]

I'm about half tempted to this one (http://www.monkeyedge.com/Steve-Ryan-Punch-Dagger-Monkey-Edge-FRAG-Pattern-p/srk0125.htm) because it's orange and I'm super ghey for orange.

7333 (http://www.monkeyedge.com/Steve-Ryan-Punch-Dagger-Monkey-Edge-FRAG-Pattern-p/srk0125.htm)

You'll need a new orange sheath ��

[SLG]

I'm about half tempted to this one (http://www.monkeyedge.com/Steve-Ryan-Punch-Dagger-Monkey-Edge-FRAG-Pattern-p/srk0125.htm) because it's orange and I'm super ghey for orange.

7333 (http://www.monkeyedge.com/Steve-Ryan-Punch-Dagger-Monkey-Edge-FRAG-Pattern-p/srk0125.htm)

Too bad you just missed the free shipping.

[SLG]

Problem solved:

7334

Alas, I already have too many knives I'll never use (or carry -- this one is illegal in NM), so no free shipping (or orange knives) for me.

In that case, them them both to me. :-)

[orionz06]

I'm about half tempted to this one (http://www.monkeyedge.com/Steve-Ryan-Punch-Dagger-Monkey-Edge-FRAG-Pattern-p/srk0125.htm) because it's orange and I'm super ghey for orange.

7333 (http://www.monkeyedge.com/Steve-Ryan-Punch-Dagger-Monkey-Edge-FRAG-Pattern-p/srk0125.htm)


No green no care.

[SLG]

If I wasn't still sore from my encounter with the taxman, I probably would.

I hope you would not. After all, I'm not ghey. :-)

[UNK]

Have you had time to train with it?


The Ban Tang UGI is worth looking into. I have one but haven't been able to work any reps with it. It can work on the MDTS/RCS Pocket Shield quite well. In training against it the thing comes out very easily.

http://i.imgur.com/qUq8LA9l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Iaj96yIl.jpg

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1078518-Universal-Grip-Implement

[orionz06]

Have you had time to train with it?

A little, not carrying it but I've gotten some decent reps in and it's quite easy to get in play, even with my Nok clone being inside of grabby mma shorts.


Sent from my Nokia 3310 using an owl

[Sadmin]

Esee has a new one out:

https://www.knifecenter.com/item/RCTERTIARY/esee-knives-izula-tertiary-push-dagger-knife-blade-black-g10-handles-molded-sheath-and-clip-plate

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Eyesquared]

I could have sworn I read somewhere that the Joe Watson x Shivworks push dagger is coming early next year, but now I can't find it. Anyone have any idea where I might have seen this?

[SpyderMan2k4]

I could have sworn I read somewhere that the Joe Watson x Shivworks push dagger is coming early next year, but now I can't find it. Anyone have any idea where I might have seen this?
TPI?

[Eyesquared]

TPI?

I feel like I saw it on Facebook? Or maybe it was the new production Disciples I saw. Or maybe I was just dreaming or something.

[OnionsAndDragons]

Craig had a pic and a video in his Instagram recently...

[UNK]

From Craig 8/25/16
Hey Brian! You can get a custom from Joe right now but we're working with our Chinese factory to hopefully have a run done by year's end. They'll probably go for a little over a hundred bucks.

Paul Sharp posted a picture of the proto here not long ago but I can't remember what thread it's in.

[Eyesquared]

Thanks y'all. It was one of the instagram posts (https://www.instagram.com/p/BKETtwMjMpE/?taken-by=southnarc). If the price on the production models is really $110 I don't think I can resist buying one. Might have to sell some stuff...

[AutoFiend]

McDaniel knives has a really nice push dagger 52100 steel with g10 or carbon fiber. Really sits well in my hand, wear a large glove

https://mcdanielknives.com/production-models/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blues]

McDaniel knives has a really nice push dagger 52100 steel with g10 or carbon fiber. Really sits well in my hand, wear a large glove

https://mcdanielknives.com/production-models/

I'm seeing 5160 steel on the site. Probably doesn't matter much for a push dagger but 52100 outperforms it for edge holding and performance ordinarily. That said, 5160 is a pretty popular choice for hunting knives and isn't a slouch.

I sent some knives to Jerry Halfrich, a maker down in TX, to test 52100 blades against 5160 and he was really impressed with what he was able to wring out of the 52100 blades (both forged and stock removal). He said the 5160 was good but couldn't match the 52100 blades.

[RichY]

I'm seeing 5160 steel on the site. Probably doesn't matter much for a push dagger but 52100 outperforms it for edge holding and performance ordinarily. That said, 5160 is a pretty popular choice for hunting knives and isn't a slouch.

I sent some knives to Jerry Halfrich, a maker down in TX, to test 52100 blades against 5160 and he was really impressed with what he was able to wring out of the 52100 blades (both forged and stock removal). He said the 5160 was good but couldn't match the 52100 blades.

You're right about 5160. We used to roll tons of it (we had 90 ton and 210 ton buckets in our BOF and Electric furnace shops) and though it is touted as being spring steel, virtually all that we rolled went into lawn mower blades. It is VERY inexpensive to produce. We had a metallurgist who was into medieval reenactments and he used it to make swords, due to its decent impact resistance. Properly heat treated, it was one of the few carbon steels that would not quickly snap at the hilt after banging the swords around for awhile. He was not interested in edge holding, just blades snapping. I'm always amazed when knife makers brag about it, as my experience in actually making and rolling it never left me particularly impressed. It's an okay steel, just not worth the premium price.