USPSA Carry Optics, red dot update

[GJM]

I am about a month into my USPSA Carry Optics experiment, and wanted to provide a brief update.

I am shooting a pair of Glock 19 MOS pistols with Delta Point Pro sights, have a third MOS 19 slide with a RMR06 and Dawson three dot tritium BUIS, and just received a legacy Gen 4 19 slide with a RMR 06 direct milled by L&M. I have more than 4,000 rounds, primarily Berry's 124 flat point reloads at 130 PF through MOS #1, and approximately 500 reloads through MOS #2. I have yet to experience a stoppage in either pistol, and ejection/extraction is robust (stock extractor, bearing, etc.) Not enough rounds through MOS #3 or the L&M 19 to express an opinion beyond both run so far.

Both Delta Point Pro optics have held zero, and both the dot and display are attractive. Unfortunately, I am only getting a week on a battery, and that is apparently within spec per Leupold. I changed my battery on #1 last Saturday morning before a two day match, and my battery died this morning as I was starting to make ready on stage 1 of a match today. I will be changing the DP Pro battery before every match. Definitely not suitable as a carry optic primarily because of battery life, but also because the controls are awkward to just intensity, it has no auto intensity mode, and the large size makes BUIS difficult to impossible. After zeroing my L&M 19/RMR 06, the dot started blinking out in recoil, and it will be headed back to Trijicon Monday. I much prefer the RMR as a carry sight because of battery life, the smaller size, and the great controls.

Something I have yet to determine is the difference in shoot ability between the DP Pro and RMR. On one hand the DP Pro display is larger and clearer, but that larger display may obscure more down range. My goal for the upcoming week is to compare both optics across a range of drills, using the same lower to minimize variability other than the optic.

Tony at JM has made me a George and soon a Universal to carry a 19/optic, and as soon as the direct mulled RMR is vetted, I plan to carry it.

I have shot three matches with CO, and I can confidently say that I shoot the 19 MOS/DP Pro better than I can shoot my CZ Shadow after a few years of shooting it.

[Luke]

I loved my short trip with a RMR'd gat.

do you plan to try the Romeo once out in the wild?

[xmanhockey7]

Didn't you say you had zero issues having the optic on the MOS slide? Like wasn't an issue with the optic so much as it was with the plate mount. Have you fixed that issue? If so how?

[Lon]

A week battery life is very disappointing. My RM06 blinked out in recoil and I just added a piece of electrical tape under the battery and haven't had a problem in the 6 months since then

[GJM]

I am open to whatever new optics come out, as no options available now seem perfect. I hope the Romeo and something from Aimpoint are out soon.

I had the optic come loose on MOS #1, liberally applied blue Loctite (what YVK calls lactate) to MOS uppers, and have had no further issues coming loose. I did have a 17 MOS with a manufacturing defect, where Loctite migrated from a screw hole into the bearing channel, locking things up. Glock is replacing that pistol.

I was aware of the tape fix, but felt like a brand new $600 optic ought to work without tape, so plan to give them the opportunity to fix that.

[LSP552]

Thanks for the update George. I'm on the fence about picking up a MOS 17 to start playing with Carry Optics. Watching your experiment with much interest.

[BCL]

GJM - thanks for the update. This thread, like many you have started, is going to end up costing me money!

[JSGlock34]

My first foray into a slide mounted MRDS ended a few years back in some amount of frustration. But I haven't been shooting my G17MOS for long (three range sessions now) and I've already broken into sub-seven second FAST runs (6.69 clean is the best so-far out of three runs at my most recent practice). Unsurprisingly, most of the time difference is on the draw, as I'm still a bit slower acquiring the dot for the first shot, but splits are surprisingly close. While I'm still faster and more consistent with irons, I'm surprised to find that I'm quickly gaining ground on those times. I suspect that regular practice with the MOS will only continue to narrow the gap. Meanwhile, I'm already shooting the MOS at longer distance targets far better than I can with irons.

[GJM]

Robbie Leatham cracked the slower draw issue last week for me, during a tutorial.

I told him that I was slower to shot one on the draw with the red dot. He looked at me, puzzled. He then said my draw was just as fast with the red dot, but that I was spending too much time letting the dot settle. He told me I needed to press the trigger as soon as I saw the dot on the target, just as I would do with iron sights. As soon as I did that, the slower draw to shot one with the red dot became a non-issue for me.

I think the direct milled option is the better long term option as it mounts the red dot more securely without need for a dot specific plate like the MOS, and because it gets the dot lower. Unfortunately, red dots are still in the maturation process, and the MOS gives you flexibility to move to new optics as they become available.

I shot my fourth Carry Optics match today, and continue to be loving shooting CO. This week, I plan on comparing RMR and DP Pro across various shooting tasks. I continue to believe the red dot is developing my vision, shooting faster, and transfers directly to improved iron sight shooting.

LSP, I would strongly consider a MOS 19, as I find it a better carry gun and better gaming gun than the 17.

[DocGKR]

G19 is the way to go.

The Unity ATOM mount is better than the MOS.

That is all...

[YVK]

G19 is the way to go.

.

Is that a preference for the entire G19 package, or you also found some-dot specific benefits? GJM claims that he sees the dot better with 19 vs 17. I was thinking that his cabin gets depressurized regularly and insidiously and it was just a low oxygen talk, but after today's match he maybe top 5 in Carry Optics nationally. So I can't ignore what he says as much anymore.

[DocGKR]

Everyone I know who has spent a significant amount of time shooting Glocks with slide mounted RDS ends up preferring the G19 over any of the other options--this includes guys who traditionally carried G34/G35's. There is another thread here discussing why.

[GJM]

G19 is the way to go.

The Unity ATOM mount is better than the MOS.

That is all...

Gary, can you elaborate on your comment about the Atom vs MOS?

I inquired about an Atom on a Gen 3 slide, because my wife prefers Gen 3 to 4, but it seems like while L&M can do the Atom, the adapters are back ordered from Unity? While it is academic with Gen 3, as Glock doesn't offer MOS except on Gen 4, I worry about long term support from Unity, compared to a Glock OEM solution.

PS, YVK, don't you know it is bad juju to start forum discussing predictions, ahead of the actual USPSA classifier update, lest the gods intervene.

[LSP552]

LSP, I would strongly consider a MOS 19, as I find it a better carry gun and better gaming gun than the 17.

For me, the grip is the big problem. Even with the smaller grooves on a 4th gen 19, I still need to undercut and dremel on the bottom of the trigger guard to fit my XL hands. That worked fine for my carry gun, but (and I haven't read the rules lately) didn't think that would fly for C.O.

Great thread.

[GJM]

For me, the grip is the big problem. Even with the smaller grooves on a 4th gen 19, I still need to undercut and dremel on the bottom of the trigger guard to fit my XL hands. That worked fine for my carry gun, but (and I haven't read the rules lately) didn't think that would fly for C.O.

Great thread.

I think you are allowed to make those grip mods in CO, see below. I am using regular Glock 17 magazines, which effectively gives me a Glock 17 sized lower, with a G19 slide.


http://uspsa.org/document_library/2016/APPENDIX%20D7_DNROI_2.pdf

Grip modifications such as, but not limited to, undercutting/smoothing the trigger guard, adding or removing finger grooves, or adding stippling, grip tape, or checkering are specifically allowed, without reference to Appendix

[LSP552]

I think you are allowed to make those grip mods in CO, see below. I am using regular Glock 17 magazines, which effectively gives me a Glock 17 sized lower, with a G19 slide.


http://uspsa.org/document_library/2016/APPENDIX%20D7_DNROI_2.pdf

Grip modifications such as, but not limited to, undercutting/smoothing the trigger guard, adding or removing finger grooves, or adding stippling, grip tape, or checkering are specifically allowed, without reference to Appendix

Thanks, appreciate that.

[YVK]

PS, YVK, don't you know it is bad juju to start forum discussing predictions, ahead of the actual USPSA classifier update, lest the gods intervene.

Come on, rules have changed. Have faith, you can't avoid the destiny. It's fine to talk about stuff. It is in fact advisable to start talking about making a GM soon when you're 5% over M.

Thanks for reciting rules, btw. I was looking over GB casually for a G19 lower to mate with my optic upper and now it seems like my Boresight lower is legit.

[DocGKR]

GJM--you mean like quicker optic changes, lower mounting solution, more holster options, etc...? Once you have a plate in hand, it should be easy to have a local machine shop fabricate additional ones should Unity support ever disappear...

[OnionsAndDragons]

GJM--you mean like quicker optic changes, lower mounting solution, more holster options, etc...? Once you have a plate in hand, it should be easy to have a local machine shop fabricate additional ones should Unity support ever disappear...

This was what I was thinking.

Even if Unity went belly up, new plates could be machined from the pattern of an existing unit.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JHC]

I have shot three matches with CO, and I can confidently say that I shoot the 19 MOS/DP Pro better than I can shoot my CZ Shadow after a few years of shooting it.

Holy shmoly!!!

[taadski]

Holy shmoly!!!


I'm not sure I buy it. ;)

But it does make me wonder what'd be possible with an RMR'd Shadow or P09. :p

[GJM]

I'm not sure I buy it. ;)

But it does make me wonder what'd be possible with an RMR'd Shadow or P09. :p


You should shoot some CO and find out -- come on in, the water is warm.

[taadski]

You should shoot some CO and find out -- come on in, the water is warm.


I'm in up to my knees already, as you well know. I'm not sure how warm that water is though...you looked like you were shivering a bit this morning. :p ;)

[Edwin]

I need to figure out which of my platforms would work well with a RDS. I'm sure some people would crucify me if I tried to mount a RDS onto a Hi Power.

[JAD]

I think AIM still has some izzys.

[LSP552]

I need to figure out which of my platforms would work well with a RDS. I'm sure some people would crucify me if I tried to mount a RDS onto a Hi Power.

Pretty sure that's illegal! :D

[Edwin]

Pretty sure that's illegal! :D

Well, my only other pistol platforms are a S&W 547, Beretta 92 and PX4.

[Luke]

I dont think you can shoot a hi power in CO.

[GJM]

I dont think you can shoot a hi power in CO.


Party pooper

[Matthew]

I'm not sure I buy it. ;)

But it does make me wonder what'd be possible with an RMR'd Shadow or P09. :p

Springer Precision posted this P-09 a little while back.

https://www.instagram.com/p/_nN_MRing7/?taken-by=spring
p/_nN_MRing7

I've seen a bunch others with RMR on Enos' forum.

[GJM]

I did some shooting today, trying to compare the RMR and DP Pro. It wasn't conclusive, but while I liked the clearness and size of the Pro sight, I couldn't necessarily discern a difference in shooting between the Pro and RMR. I wondered whether I would be more likely to loose the dot at top of recoil on the RMR, as it is shorter, but didn't notice this.

I much prefer the controls on the RMR (on/off, auto intensity, and dedicated buttons for more and less dot intensity) to the Pro (which lacks auto intensity and dedicated up/down buttons).

I also pulled out my Dawson Charger 19 slide, and shot it, too. At 7-10 yards, the optic didn't seem a great advantage, and maybe even a slight disadvantage, but at longer distances like eight inch steel at 25 yards, it is an incredible advantage to look at your target while getting trigger feedback. I really like how you can easily dial an exact POI for your exact load, without drifting or replacing sights. At 25 yards, my Berry's 124 load hits three inches higher and an inch and a half left of, for example, AE 124 ball.

Taadski and I were discussing CO vs Production USPSA high hit factors, and they clearly are in flux. Yesterday, I was at a classifier match shooting CO, and looking at my four best of the six classifiers, overall my exact same hit factors would have resulted in 7.65 percent higher classification scores in Production, with an extreme difference of 11.98 percent on one particular classifier. That is odd given these classifiers are at 5-10 yards, where the optic doesn't shine. I think there will still be shaking out of CO classifier high hit factors over the next year or two.

[YVK]

I did some shooting today, trying to compare the RMR and DP Pro. It wasn't conclusive, but while I liked the clearness and size of the Pro sight, I couldn't necessarily discern a difference in shooting between the Pro and RMR. I wondered whether I would be more likely to loose the dot at top of recoil on the RMR, as it is shorter, but didn't notice this.

I much prefer the controls on the RMR (on/off, auto intensity, and dedicated buttons for more and less dot intensity) to the Pro (which lacks auto intensity and dedicated up/down buttons).

Shoot your next match with RMR.

[GJM]

Shoot your next match with RMR.

Ha, we don't use matches for that testing. Shoot your LEM at Area 1.

[YVK]

I would but unique triggers require quality attention from a master gunsmith. Pretravel reduction, reset, forward break point, gold TiN refinish aren't going to happen by themselves. Ain't gonna be ready by Area, I will have to suffer with a Tanfoglio.

You, on the other hand, are handicapping yourself mightily. If you preferred CZs over G19 in Prod, why would you not do it in CO? Same huge magwell, same 2.5 lb trigger, it weighs a ton - the dot will never leave A zone, let alone your sight. You got 5 or 7 CZs, you can easily get several of them milled. People are doing it and they will rule CO just like they rule Prod. Be a rebel, leupold that cz like a dp pro.


http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=227949

[Luke]

Now this makes me want to put down the 320...

http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp81/hook_setter/C3216508-2768-47B5-A8B5-7D01E07B7939_zps1vuwocxc.jpg (http://s400.photobucket.com/user/hook_setter/media/C3216508-2768-47B5-A8B5-7D01E07B7939_zps1vuwocxc.jpg.html)

If the dang classifiers weren't basically open scored and we had more than 1 CO shooter it would be my class of choice

[olstyn]

That Shadow/DP Pro combo does look pretty sweet. Not a league I can afford to play in, but seriously cool. Of course, I'd have to get over my dislike for manual decocking, but I suppose with enough practice, I could. Sucks that the decocker version of the CZ fire control system is not as easily tuned.

[GJM]

YVK, you should be ashamed of yourself, showing me those dirty CZ pictures, and trying to make me feel bad about my G19 MOS. not sure who is worse, you or Taadski.

[YVK]

Wrong emphasis, mon ami. I am not trying to make you feel bad about your G19 POS. It is a remarkably capable little rocket with all those Taran parts you got in there. I am trying to make you feel good about five CZs that would be dominating carry optics division if you just let them.
Who's worse, me or Taadski, has been a subject of an intense competition. Today's my day.

[YVK]

Needless to say, I meant G19 MOS, not POS. I use an old russian laptop with a cyrillic keyboard as a primary, M and P share the same key.

[taadski]

YVK, you should be ashamed of yourself, showing me those dirty CZ pictures, and trying to make me feel bad about my G19 MOS. not sure who is worse, you or Taadski.

Yuri, he's already got a shadow slide on its way for milling. Don't let em fool ya. I think he sent me that Benos CZ welfare optics link the other day. He's just being coy.




:p

[taadski]

Now this makes me want to put down the 320...

http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp81/hook_setter/C3216508-2768-47B5-A8B5-7D01E07B7939_zps1vuwocxc.jpg (http://s400.photobucket.com/user/hook_setter/media/C3216508-2768-47B5-A8B5-7D01E07B7939_zps1vuwocxc.jpg.html)

If the dang classifiers weren't basically open scored and we had more than 1 CO shooter it would be my class of choice


Oh, for God's sake, it's only 7%! Now you sound like GJM. If that glowing orb of death doesn't make up at least 10% for ya, you may as well go shoot CCP or something!




;)



Besides, all the cool kids are doing it! Word has it Steggler, Hoppy and Tiny Tim are going to have some sort of ghey carry optics love triangle sometime later this year. I heard as soon as the Romeo1 optic comes out. Remember, you heard it here first! :D

[GJM]

I don't usually shoot the same drill more than three times in a row, as I get bored easily, but I spent most of today's session working El Pez, trying to hit the right balance between tension and looseness. My last three were 35 A's, 1C, and here is my last, all A's at 5.65:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3aIsQMj6Z0

I have video of the Wilson drill from yesterday, that I will try to post later.

[Luke]

Dat GM score doe!

[Trooper224]

Now this makes me want to put down the 320...

http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp81/hook_setter/C3216508-2768-47B5-A8B5-7D01E07B7939_zps1vuwocxc.jpg (http://s400.photobucket.com/user/hook_setter/media/C3216508-2768-47B5-A8B5-7D01E07B7939_zps1vuwocxc.jpg.html)

If the dang classifiers weren't basically open scored and we had more than 1 CO shooter it would be my class of choice

I could get behind that.

[Cheap Shot]

Now this makes me want to put down the 320...

http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp81/hook_setter/C3216508-2768-47B5-A8B5-7D01E07B7939_zps1vuwocxc.jpg (http://s400.photobucket.com/user/hook_setter/media/C3216508-2768-47B5-A8B5-7D01E07B7939_zps1vuwocxc.jpg.html)

If the dang classifiers weren't basically open scored and we had more than 1 CO shooter it would be my class of choice

Well I hope you're happy. That pic is going to cost me money........

[JSGlock34]

I don't usually shoot the same drill more than three times in a row, as I get bored easily, but I spent most of today's session working El Pez, trying to hit the right balance between tension and looseness. My last three were 35 A's, 1C, and here is my last, all A's at 5.65:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3aIsQMj6Z0

I have video of the Wilson drill from yesterday, that I will try to post later.

Nice shooting, George.

[GJM]

Well I hope you're happy. That pic is going to cost me money........

I have also been fighting this urge.

[GJM]

i received a package from Jager today, with various guide rods and recoil springs for Glock pistols. This afternoon, I tested a Jager gen 4 guide rod for the gen 4, Glock 19 MOS with an ISMI 13 pound spring. The pistol continued to function perfectly. To test out how the guide rod and lighter ISMI spring impact tracking the DP Pro dot, I did a variety of drills:

Bill drills at 7 and 35 yards on IPSC paper targets.
Garcia dot drill at 7 yards (full drill of six runs of six shots to the two inch dots on my PT target).
El Prez
Shooting Bill drills at 25 yards on an 8 inch steel plate.

Whether the spring was a placebo, or the effect was real, I sure believed it was helping me. Without boring folks with the details on all the drills, I shot 33/36 on the Garcia dot drill, with all runs between 4.00-4.50 seconds. I had 35 yard Bill drills in the low 4's with 5/6 A's.

[SLG]

I don't usually shoot the same drill more than three times in a row, as I get bored easily, but I spent most of today's session working El Pez, trying to hit the right balance between tension and looseness. My last three were 35 A's, 1C, and here is my last, all A's at 5.65:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3aIsQMj6Z0

I have video of the Wilson drill from yesterday, that I will try to post later.

I have never shot an El Prez unconcealed, but that looked like a good run. I'll have to try it.

[GJM]

I have never shot an El Prez unconcealed, but that looked like a good run. I'll have to try it.

You know, there is a three second penalty for shooting it concealed, since Jeff Cooper didn't design it that way.

[SLG]

You know, there is a three second penalty for shooting it concealed, since Jeff Cooper didn't design it that way.

Even with the penalty, I can still meet his standard.:-)

3 yards between targets on the video? 10 yards away?

I thought I'd be shooting last Thursday, but that didn't work out. Wife is at Area 6, so I'm playing Mr. Mom. I may get to shoot tomorrow, we'll see.

[GJM]

Even with the penalty, I can still meet his standard.:-)

3 yards between targets on the video? 10 yards away?

I thought I'd be shooting last Thursday, but that didn't work out. Wife is at Area 6, so I'm playing Mr. Mom. I may get to shoot tomorrow, we'll see.

It is 99-11, and here is a link to the exact description and a listing of what hit factors are what in what division. Three feet between targets, I probably had them set too wide.


https://azshooters.org/classifier?classifier=99-11&hitfactor=


Sent from my iPad

[SLG]

It is 99-11, and here is a link to the exact description and a listing of what hit factors are what in what division. Three feet between targets, I probably had them set too wide.


https://azshooters.org/classifier?classifier=99-11&hitfactor=


Sent from my iPad

Maybe for the classifier, or for IDPA, but afaik, the original Gunsite standard called for 3 yards between targets, 10 yards from the shooter. Do you remember it differently?

eta Now I'm not sure. Is IDPA 1 foot away, and USPSA 3 feet?

[1slow]

I seem to remember 1 yard between targets 10 yards distance for El Presidente.

[GJM]

Maybe for the classifier, or for IDPA, but afaik, the original Gunsite standard called for 3 yards between targets, 10 yards from the shooter. Do you remember it differently?

eta Now I'm not sure. Is IDPA 1 foot away, and USPSA 3 feet?

I first shot it at Gunsite in 91 or 92, under the watchful eye of Jeff Cooper. I don't remember much other than ten yards, open carry, and the "standard" was ten seconds.

[GJM]

My wife wanted a Gen 3 CO set-up, and I wrestled this Atom slide away from the head guy here. Here it is with a legacy DP I got from Mark Housel. Very nice!

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsda4xyfxe.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsda4xyfxe.jpeg.html)

[breakingtime91]

My wife wanted a Gen 3 CO set-up, and I wrestled this Atom slide away from the head guy here. Here it is with a legacy DP I got from Mark Housel. Very nice!

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsda4xyfxe.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsda4xyfxe.jpeg.html)

does it work with a gadget?

[GJM]

Yes, confirmed.

[LOKNLOD]

G -
It may take more trigger time to fully answer, but now that you've got all the variants - MOS, direct milled, and ATOM - in hand: If you were starting over, which would you choose? Assuming you weren't driven to require a Gen 3 frame. Does any one stand out as "the" way?

[GJM]

G -
It may take more trigger time to fully answer, but now that you've got all the variants - MOS, direct milled, and ATOM - in hand: If you were starting over, which would you choose? Assuming you weren't driven to require a Gen 3 frame. Does any one stand out as "the" way?

I don't think any is perfect.

The MOS is likely to be the best supported, and offer the most flexibility with future optics, but mounts the optic higher than the others, and relies on loctite (what YVK calls lactate). The Atom is almost as flexible as the MOS, mounts the optic a tad lower and more securely than the MOS, but relies on one company for the adapter plates. Right now, they show all plates (T1, RMR, legacy DP) as back ordered, and offer no plate for the DP Pro. Direct milling seems the most secure and lowest mount of the optic, but if that optic is surpassed, you are SOL. My solution is to game a DP Pro on a MOS and carry a direct milled RMR06.

The optics choices have just as many pluses and minuses.

[coldcase1984]

Are Micros too hard to acquire the dot quickly gents?

Considering a 19 MOS for off-duty use and have a couple Micros. Love the battery life on my issued Commando's Micro.

[LOKNLOD]

Are Micros too hard to acquire the dot quickly gents?

Considering a 19 MOS for off-duty use and have a couple Micros. Love the battery life on my issued Commando's Micro.

I would think the tubular nature of the aimpoint would provide some visual feedback to help indicate alignment, that you don't get with flat "screen" type optics. Misalignment is going to be much more apparent.

[MVS]

Are Micros too hard to acquire the dot quickly gents?

Considering a 19 MOS for off-duty use and have a couple Micros. Love the battery life on my issued Commando's Micro.
We are talking Aimpoint Micro? I only have limited time with one but found it maybe easier to pick up. However it is clearly a no go for me as it is a bit tough to carry concealed on a daily basis in regular clothes. YMMV.

[Dagga Boy]

Are Micros too hard to acquire the dot quickly gents?

Considering a 19 MOS for off-duty use and have a couple Micros. Love the battery life on my issued Commando's Micro.


I would think the tubular nature of the aimpoint would provide some visual feedback to help indicate alignment, that you don't get with flat "screen" type optics. Misalignment is going to be much more apparent.


We are talking Aimpoint Micro? I only have limited time with one but found it maybe easier to pick up. However it is clearly a no go for me as it is a bit tough to carry concealed on a daily basis in regular clothes. YMMV.

I tried the RMR and found issues with hunting the dot, and really had a hard time finding it when not standing vertical and a good draw. Essentially failed my laying in bed grab off the nightstand test. Mark Housel and I did a lot of work early to get an Aimpoint Micro on a Glock slide (including losing one slide in the process). Finally with the Unity mount it works well. I find I can find the dot easier because the tube tells me where it is. Also, it is an optic I am very used to using. I spent an entire shot show with a G17 in a bladetech IWB holster with it to answer the "not concealable issues" constantly brought up. I found the rounded body of the Micro actually was fine against skin and fairly easy to carry, as long as you are right handed. I got away from really working with this set up when I went to all HKs for carry.
I am waiting to see what the future brings, but I have a VP9 that is set aside for a red dot and will delve back into this at some point.

[SLG]

I tried the RMR and found issues with hunting the dot, and really had a hard time finding it when not standing vertical and a good draw. Essentially failed my laying in bed grab off the nightstand test. Mark Housel and I did a lot of work early to get an Aimpoint Micro on a Glock slide (including losing one slide in the process). Finally with the Unity mount it works well. I find I can find the dot easier because the tube tells me where it is. Also, it is an optic I am very used to using. I spent an entire shot show with a G17 in a bladetech IWB holster with it to answer the "not concealable issues" constantly brought up. I found the rounded body of the Micro actually was fine against skin and fairly easy to carry, as long as you are right handed. I got away from really working with this set up when I went to all HKs for carry.
I am waiting to see what the future brings, but I have a VP9 that is set aside for a red dot and will delve back into this at some point.

I got to see Nyeti carrying that gun during shot. he had no issue concealing it. Doc sent me a 19 with a T1 on it to play with years ago. I too had no issue concealing it. It wasn't any faster for me to pickup, but it wasn't any slower either. Parts will sometimes break off of a T1 when used on a pistol, but those parts are not essential.

[breakingtime91]

I got to see Nyeti carrying that gun during shot. he had no issue concealing it. Doc sent me a 19 with a T1 on it to play with years ago. I too had no issue concealing it. It wasn't any faster for me to pickup, but it wasn't any slower either. Parts will sometimes break off of a T1 when used on a pistol, but those parts are not essential.

slg, what do you think about a red dot on a pistol in general?

[JAD]

Am I right in thinking that an optic is an AIWB-only proposition ? I can't see how it would fit at 3:00-3:30.

[SLG]

slg, what do you think about a red dot on a pistol in general?

I think it offers a lot of capability, but with some serious downsides that cannot be worked around in 2016. The two big areas that need improvement are the overall robustness of the optic (which is partially tied into how it is mounted), as well as dealing with adverse weather conditions.

I'm sure you have used your rifle in bad weather. I find a 30mm Aimpoint to be more forgiving of rain/sleet/snow/fog than the Micros. It is one reason I have mostly switched back to the Comp series for primary optic use. Most of the time, of course, I do run a scope, so the Micro then becomes my BURDS. If CT grips were more bombproof, and more ergonomic for me, they would go a long way to mitigating the bad weather issue.

[MVS]

I got to see Nyeti carrying that gun during shot. he had no issue concealing it. Doc sent me a 19 with a T1 on it to play with years ago. I too had no issue concealing it. It wasn't any faster for me to pickup, but it wasn't any slower either. Parts will sometimes break off of a T1 when used on a pistol, but those parts are not essential.

Well I was going to use the excuse that Nyeti is twice as thick as me, but IIRC you are not, so there goes that. The version I played with was the Yeti's, as opposed to Nyeti, and clearly he is much larger than me as well.

[LOKNLOD]

Am I right in thinking that an optic is an AIWB-only proposition ? I can't see how it would fit at 3:00-3:30.

I think like most things holster-related, "it depends"... I'm more worried about the amount of wedge AIWB causing the RMR top corner to jut out (because the pivot point is closer to the bore).

[LtDave]

Am I right in thinking that an optic is an AIWB-only proposition ? I can't see how it would fit at 3:00-3:30.
I carry a G23 w/RMR in a Dale Fricke IWB rig at 8:30-9:00 (LH). No issues concealing it.

[GJM]

I carry a G23 w/RMR in a Dale Fricke IWB rig at 8:30-9:00 (LH). No issues concealing it.


No issues with me with a G19/RMR in a JM George, under just a t-shirt.

[GJM]

I am just back from a seven stage match using the 19 MOS/DP Pro. It was an interesting match, as it was very iron sight friendly, with a bunch of contortions combined with relatively close targets. A good test of acquiring the dot, since I have no usable BUIS on this pistol, and had no issues in this regard. Most targets were IPSC classic with a more demanding A zone and no head box. For the match, I shot 101 A's, 22 C's, 1 D and no mikes or noshoots.

The Glock 19, now equipped with an ISMI 13 pound recoil spring and Jager guide run ran great. I replaced my battery this morning, but twice in the match, I noticed that my dot turned off, on its on, between stages. With Area 1 coming up, I ordered another DP Pro from Midway, and will see about sending this Pro back to Leupold.

Here is an example of one of the stages today:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIm9LxCh1Sk

[breakingtime91]

I am just back from a seven stage match using the 19 MOS/DP Pro. It was an interesting match, as it was very iron sight friendly, with a bunch of contortions combined with relatively close targets. A good test of acquiring the dot, since I have no usable BUIS on this pistol, and had no issues in this regard. Most targets were IPSC classic with a more demanding A zone and no head box. For the match, I shot 101 A's, 22 C's, 1 D and no mikes or noshoots.

The Glock 19, now equipped with an ISMI 13 pound recoil spring and Jager guide run ran great. I replaced my battery this morning, but twice in the match, I noticed that my dot turned off, on its on, between stages. With Area 1 coming up, I ordered another DP Pro from Midway, and will see about sending this Pro back to Leupold.

Here is an example of one of the stages today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIm9LxCh1Sk

really wish they had a better battery life.. They make a mount for the p2000 dovetail and it would of been a fun thing to try.

[GJM]

really wish they had a better battery life.. They make a mount for the p2000 dovetail and it would of been a fun thing to try.

The Pro is absolutely NOT an EDC red dot. Maybe OK for face shooters that change every battery, every day, but not even close to the RMR for EDC battery life. I like it for Carry Optics as the display is larger than the RMR, and clearer than the tint on the Trijicon.

One more video from the match today. Since the description did not specify that you had to shoot the activating steel, prior to engaging the swinger, and since 2.5 inches of the target was visible, with the red dot I elected to shoot the swinger while stationary.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIyCxOtWVjU


Sent from my iPad

[Dagga Boy]

So the blinking dot is sort of normal? I was at a shoot recently with the Leopold guy raving about his VP9 with a DP pro on it. I thought I was doing some thing wrong, or just not looking at it right, but it was blinking every so often. I didn't want to say anything to the guy because I was there with a competitor. I did like the big screen, but I found the dot thing distracting.

[GJM]

So the blinking dot is sort of normal? I was at a shoot recently with the Leopold guy raving about his VP9 with a DP pro on it. I thought I was doing some thing wrong, or just not looking at it right, but it was blinking every so often. I didn't want to say anything to the guy because I was there with a competitor. I did like the big screen, but I found the dot thing distracting.


Pressurize your eyes and stop blinking. :)

Kidding aside, it flashes five times when at the extreme end of adjustment, or ten times when the battery is low. Bet he didn't know he had a low battery, given how pitiful the battery life is on the Pro. Very puzzled why the legacy DP had good battery life, and the Pro so little. I just got my fix -- a shipment of 50 batteries from Amazon.

[DocSabo40]

...The Glock 19, now equipped with an ISMI 13 pound recoil spring and Jager guide run ran great. ...

Are you running a lighter striker spring? I tried the exact same setup, and pulling the trigger would begin to unlock the pistol. It would do the same with a 15lb ISMI as well. The striker spring was overpowering the recoil spring.

[GJM]

Are you running a lighter striker spring? I tried the exact same setup, and pulling the trigger would begin to unlock the pistol. It would do the same with a 15lb ISMI as well. The striker spring was overpowering the recoil spring.

Yes, a 4.5. I run a 5.0, .5 less than the OEM, in my carry guns, and 4.5 in game guns. Think my wife runs a 4.0 without issues in one or more of her game guns.

[MVS]

GJM, or anybody else that would know, is my reading of the rules correct in that if you want to compete in the carry optics division you can't appendix carry?

[GJM]

GJM, or anybody else that would know, is my reading of the rules correct in that is you want to compete in the carry optics division you can't appendix carry?

Correct. No AIWB in Production, CO or single stack. AIWB is fine in Limited and Open.

[MVS]

Correct. No AIWB in Production, CO or single stack. AIWB is fine in Limited and Open.

Thanks. Conundrum for me then.

BTW, why is it I never notice spelling or grammar mistakes until a post is quoted?

[Mr_White]

Correct. No AIWB in Production, CO or single stack. AIWB is fine in Limited and Open.

Don't forget no AIWB in Revolver either, and AIWB OK in Limited-10! I know there are a lot of folks competing in L10 and Revolver these days...

[45dotACP]

Don't forget no AIWB in Revolver either, and AIWB OK in Limited-10! I know there are a lot of folks competing in L10 and Revolver these days...

7492

[olstyn]

Don't forget no AIWB in Revolver either, and AIWB OK in Limited-10! I know there are a lot of folks competing in L10 and Revolver these days...

There are times when I think about registering for L10 with my suboptimal Production gun for the division win. Winning against no competitors is still winning, right? :)

[GJM]

This weekend, a strong GM won L10 at my match.

[olstyn]

I don't doubt that there are places where L10 is a legitimate division, but my understanding is that in most places, it's a joke.

Around here, L10 is sort of a thing at Section matches and above, but otherwise, attendance is tiny. (Like maybe 2 shooters out of a field of 70+.) It was kind of cool being squadded with an old dude shooting L10 with a 2011 chambered for .45 at last year's Section match, though - it was a neat gun. :)

[GJM]

We got a chance to get to the range this morning with my wife's new Gen 3 Atom slide and a legacy Delta Point. It took us a little longer to get the thing zeroed, as you need to loosen two set screws before and after making adjustments, and the arrows indicate to the direction you are moving the dot as opposed to POI. Probably took 30-40 rounds to get a satisfactory zero at 25 yards, compared to 3 or 4 clicks with the DP Pro sights I have set-up. No stoppages through the 250 rounds of Berry's 124 reloads and Federal 124 AE ball we fired. Both loads shoot close in POI. She even tried left and right hand only shooting without issue. This is notable because these same reloads do not reliably function, one hand, in her three or four Gen 3 Glock 34 pistols, even with after market guide rods and 13 pound recoil springs. This reinforces my long held belief that the 34 requires higher PF ammo for reliable function.

My wife really likes the Gen 3, as she is used to Gen 3 pistols, and feels the Gen 4 is enough different it messes with her index when she is shooting "in the gray." I can tell the difference, but don't find enough difference to matter. I typically use more trigger finger on the Gen 4 (no blackstrap)and less on the Gen 3 pistols.

Here is another interesting thing. I need a touch of right correction on the rear sights of all my handguns, including the Glock, which I attribute to my particular eyes. With the red dot, though, my wife and I shoot to the same POI, with the same pistol.

[YVK]

Shoot some 25 yard small targets with BUIS only and dot turned off, and then turn the dot on and see if irons and dot are aligned. That would be interesting to know.

[GJM]

Shoot some 25 yard small targets with BUIS only and dot turned off, and then turn the dot on and see if irons and dot are aligned. That would be interesting to know.

We have RMR, DP Pro, DP and now a C-More RTS2 (coming later this week). Seems like a big project and good summer task. You want rain on the displays, too?

[GJM]

Shoot some 25 yard small targets with BUIS only and dot turned off, and then turn the dot on and see if irons and dot are aligned. That would be interesting to know.

I ended up doing some 100 yard shooting this afternoon, and decided to humor my friend, YVK, with some quick testing as part of the longer range shooting. Here is the MGM target we were using (picture from a previous time), along with primer/sealer white paint, so we could see our hits each run.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/wilson100_zps2aad3db6.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/wilson100_zps2aad3db6.jpg.html)

First thing, I dragged out my carry Glock 19 with a RMR06 and Ameriglo tritium suppressor reserve sights, and shot the iron sights at 25 yards with the dot turned off. YVK specified "small targets at 25," but this is what I had.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsudm4hnpy.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsudm4hnpy.jpeg.html)

Seemed fine. I then had my wife repeat the iron sight test with her Gen 3 19 Atom, the Atom reserve sights, and the legacy DP. Her iron sight shots started on the left side of the target at 25 and then started missing left. I took it to try shooting it, and realized the front sight was loose and moving around to a different place each shot. My bad for not checking it when I received it with the BUIS installed. I hand tightened the front sight, and shots were well centered, but obviously need to tighten it properly and loctite before testing further.

I then went back to 100 yards, and shooting both Lawman 115 and AE 124 through my carry RMR 19, was basically one shot, one hit, as long as I did my part on the trigger and held at the top of the plate. Next I shot my CO G4 19, which has a DP Pro and no BUIS. Also one shot, one hit at 100. Finally, for giggles I pulled out my G4 19 upper with Dawson Charger sights to shoot at 100. I figured it would be ugly, and surprised myself with 4 hits in my first four shots at 100. I kind of choked, yanked two, and finished with 8/10 hits with the Dawson sights at 100 yards. Not sure what to make of that.

Last task was to shoot my Ameriglo back-up suppressor sights at 100 yards with my RMR carry 19. Fired a shot or two figuring out where to hold, and then went 2/2 at 100 and decided to quit while I was ahead. Seems like the back-up sights work as well as I could hope.

[Mr_White]

finished with 8/10 hits with the Dawson sights at 100 yards. Not sure what to make of that.

You woulda gone 10/10 if you used teh green FO

[GJM]

You woulda gone 10/10 if you used teh green FO

Could get me confused, and then killed in the food court -- I reserve red for my RDS and fiber, and green for my lasers.

[GJM]

Went to install just arrived C-More RTS 2 on my Glock MOS, and was disappointed to find out that it is NOT compatible with the Glock MOS adapter plate designated for the C-More. C-More is closed today, but I will call them next week. Don't expect anything beyond "nope, it doesn't fit the RTS 2, but fits another unit (like the STS 2)."

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zps3mga2cmu.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zps3mga2cmu.jpeg.html)

[TAZ]

That sux. How thick are those plates? Doesn't look like you get a lot of thread engagement from optic to plate.

[Luke]

That sux. How thick are those plates? Doesn't look like you get a lot of thread engagement from optic to plate.

You don't. You have to lactate them or they fly off. It's all over the Internet

[Josh Runkle]

You don't. You have to lactate them or they fly off. It's all over the Internet

I milk the shit out of them.

[45dotACP]

You don't. You have to lactate them or they fly off. It's all over the Internet

Be careful with the lactate levels....If the lactate level is above 4 you better get 30ml/Kg of crystalloid goin damn quick-like...also blood cultures and broad spectrum antibiotics protocols should be considered as well...

[GJM]

Had a range session this afternoon. After shooting my #1 G19 MOS/DP Pro USPSA CO pistol, I decided to run some tests I was just doing with another MOS 19, but with a RMR 06. To keep things similar, I pulled that slide and put it on the same lower my DP Pro was on, so the trigger would be the same. With zero warm up shots to fam with the RMR, I ran two El Prez runs. I was 5.83 (10 A, 2 C) and then 5.63 (9A, 3C). This frankly surprised me, as I have assumed the DP Pro was the better gaming optic as the window is so much clearer and larger. Something I didn't anticipate, was the smaller window and frame of the RMR seemed to function like a tighter rear sight notch, and I felt like it was easier to shoot fast, accurate shots using the combination of the red dot and RMR frame for quick aiming. I then went on to shoot some Garcia dots and draws and follow-up shots to an 8 inch steel at 30, and continued to feel like the smaller RMR helped with aiming. No idea whether this is trick of the day, and there may be some downsides of the smaller window in funky USPSA shooting positions, but I plan to test this more this weekend.

Previously I have been gaming the Pro and using the RMR on my carry 19 -- probably will receive a fresh timmie card from Gabe if I end up using the exact same set-up for both.

[BillSWPA]

Could get me confused, and then killed in the food court -- I reserve red for my RDS and fiber, and green for my lasers.

Thread drift: what are your thoughts on green for lasers?

For most of my lasers, I did not have the option of green. For the one where I could choose red or green, I chose red. Visibility under more light conditions would certainly be a nice thing to have, but I have read that the beam of the green is visible at night. That is more visibility than I want to whoever might mean me harm.

[Jay Cunningham]

Could get me confused, and then killed in the food court -- I reserve red for my RDS and fiber, and green for my lasers.

TOP KEK!

[Luke]

TOP KEK!

What did your user name used to be?

[Jay Cunningham]

What did your user name used to be?

That's close hold, bro.

[GJM]

Thread drift: what are your thoughts on green for lasers?

For most of my lasers, I did not have the option of green. For the one where I could choose red or green, I chose red. Visibility under more light conditions would certainly be a nice thing to have, but I have read that the beam of the green is visible at night. That is more visibility than I want to whoever might mean me harm.

I am no laser expert, but I am a bit confused, as both red and green seem visible to me at night, with green the more visible in daylight?

[BillSWPA]

I am no laser expert, but I am a bit confused, as both red and green seem visible to me at night, with green the more visible in daylight?

I am new at lasers myself, so I can only comment based on what I read, but from what I understand, green is generally daylight visible while red is typically not usable at all outside during the day. At night, a red dot is visible, but not the beam. The green beam is visible as well as the dot. My thinking is that, while daylight outdoor visibility would be nice, having a green line telling my opponent exactly where I am is significantly less desirable than having them see a red dot and then have to look for the source.

Green seems to be becoming more available in a wider variety of models, but is generally more expensive, and the smallest lasers for the smallest guns (the lasers that provide the most benefit) are largely still available only in red.

[BCL]

What did your user name used to be?

It's not too hard to figure out if you look at previous posts...particularly the gun lube war thread...

[Luke]

It's not too hard to figure out if you look at previous posts...particularly the gun lube war thread...

I know who it is :)

[GJM]

A few things.

1) All winter, I have been running a load for Production with my CZ Shadow pistols, consisting of a Berry's 124 flat point over 3.8 of Tite Group. That has chromo'd at 130 PF on our equipment and at a match. I decided to check it in my Glock 19 MOS pistols ahead of an upcoming match. Two batches chromo'd at 128 PF and one batch at 126. That is too close to minimum power factor for my comfort level, so I decided to use AE 124 ball, which chromo'd at 132 through the G19 MOS.

2) Some days ago, on April 29, post #99, I reported that I tested a MOS RMR upper against my DP Pro uppers, and felt it showed promise. Yesterday, I shot it first thing, rather late in the session, and continued to feel that while significantly smaller than the Pro, it seemed to help me aim quicker. This afternoon, we were shooting the accelerator (2 shots at 7, 15, 25, reload, repeat) and I decided to test again. I went from runs in the 7's to runs in the 6's with equivalent, or a bit better accuracy. So here is what is different about the RMR pistol -- it still has the OEM 18 pound RSA (I have gone to 15 pound springs in the DP pistols), it has Dawson back-up tritium iron sights, and of course has the RMR instead of the Pro. Oh, and the tall front sight was rubbing on my BT holster, slowing my draw, although I have now switched holsters to a BT Ice for more clearance. I am experiencing enough upside with the RMR, I plan to focus on it the next few days, and see if I can confirm my results.

[JHC]

A few things.

1) All winter, I have been running a load for Production with my CZ Shadow pistols, consisting of a Berry's 124 flat point over 3.8 of Tite Group. That has chromo'd at 130 PF on our equipment and at a match. I decided to check it in my Glock 19 MOS pistols ahead of an upcoming match. Two batches chromo'd at 128 PF and one batch at 126. That is too close to minimum power factor for my comfort level, so I decided to use AE 124 ball, which chromo'd at 132 through the G19 MOS.

2) Some days ago, on April 29, post #99, I reported that I tested a MOS RMR upper against my DP Pro uppers, and felt it showed promise. Yesterday, I shot it first thing, rather late in the session, and continued to feel that while significantly smaller than the Pro, it seemed to help me aim quicker. This afternoon, we were shooting the accelerator (2 shots at 7, 15, 25, reload, repeat) and I decided to test again. I went from runs in the 7's to runs in the 6's with equivalent, or a bit better accuracy. So here is what is different about the RMR pistol -- it still has the OEM 18 pound RSA (I have gone to 15 pound springs in the DP pistols), it has Dawson back-up tritium iron sights, and of course has the RMR instead of the Pro. Oh, and the tall front sight was rubbing on my BT holster, slowing my draw, although I have now switched holsters to a BT Ice for more clearance. I am experiencing enough upside with the RMR, I plan to focus on it the next few days, and see if I can confirm my results.

I had the chance to shoot a custom install (Matt Lilly of Dawsonville Gun) of an RMR on a G19 yesterday. The gun's owner has HD sights on it and they co-witness lower third.

I was pretty impressed with how fast I could pick up the dot and it never really left the window in strings of fire. ESPECIALLY not when we added the KKM with comp. But he had tweaked some stuff with a Zev trigger and while it ran my 115 Lawman great, with the comp it would choke with some of the other budget 115 ball that was in use by he and another shooter.

But I was not put off at all by the acquisition of the RMR dot or it's tracking across three targets as I hauled ass laterally across in front of them at around 7 yards.

[GJM]

I had the chance to shoot a custom install (Matt Lilly of Dawsonville Gun) of an RMR on a G19 yesterday. The gun's owner has HD sights on it and they co-witness lower third.

I was pretty impressed with how fast I could pick up the dot and it never really left the window in strings of fire. ESPECIALLY not when we added the KKM with comp. But he had tweaked some stuff with a Zev trigger and while it ran my 115 Lawman great, with the comp it would choke with some of the other budget 115 ball that was in use by he and another shooter.

But I was not put off at all by the acquisition of the RMR dot or it's tracking across three targets as I hauled ass laterally across in front of them at around 7 yards.

Inside 10 the RDS is fine, but try that drill at 15-35, and that is where the dot rally helps!

[JHC]

Inside 10 the RDS is fine, but try that drill at 15-35, and that is where the dot rally helps!

I sure saw plenty of that in the hands of the pistol's owner! My first impression trying it out was that 25 yard headbox hits took considerably less effort with his RMR'd G19 than with my G17s with irons. But his trigger was a variable.

[Drang]

Make it staaaaahp!:p

[SteveB]

Like some others here, I'm not seeing the front sight as well as I used to. GJM convinced me to try the G19 MOS, and I set one up with a DP Pro. The sight sits a bit too high for me on that slide; also had a problem with Loctite leaking into the spring-loaded bearing channel and gumming up the works. That pistol got sent back to Glock. I got a couple of ATOM slides for 17 & 19 which I like better than the MOS. One advantage is that I can move an RMR back and forth between the slides with only a minor elevation adjustment. I've been hammering these guns hard and believe I will get to a point where the dot works as well on a pistol as it does on a long gun. Not there yet, though. While I'm getting to the point where dot bounce is not killing me on fast shooting, my presentation is not quite there. Yesterday, I got my 320 Carry slide back from Mark Housel; I do like the bigger window on the DP and was very encouraged with my results. While I'm still quicker up close with iron sights, the delta is disappearing. No contest at distance; comparing WHO shooting on 6" steels at 25 yards with irons will make you respect the dot.

7720

[GJM]

Just in from shooting my G4 19 MOS with RMR06 and Dawson tritium BUIS in a CO spring snow squall.

Something I noticed recently, is the red dot seems to make prone a better pistol position for me. I wear contacts and frequently glasses in the dry southwest, and trying to get low and see through the correct part of glasses can be challenging. The red dot offers a slightly more upright position and is easier to assume quickly. My trigger control is pretty tuned up, as over the last 48 hours I shot 500 rounds through the MOS at an 8 inch steel at 40 and 50 yards, and the dot provides great feedback to trigger control.

First task was five shots of Gold Dot 124+P at 50 yards from prone. Here is the result and disregard the Brenneke hole. Five shots just under 3 inches.


http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpsnnkuo9uh.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpsnnkuo9uh.jpeg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpsuydgfvif.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpsuydgfvif.jpeg.html)

Then I recalled DocGKR says only ten shot groups count, so I headed back for another five shots. At that point, it started blizzarding and blowing 25 knots, and I racked off the second five in those conditions, lying in a 1/8 an inch of snow. I called one slightly high and one flat broke when I wasn't expecting it to, as I was rushing to get done. Eight shots went into just under 3.5 inches and the surprise shot took the whole group to 6.5 inches. Considering all, I am extremely satisfied with this optic/gun/load combination.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpsoocayhfn.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpsoocayhfn.jpeg.html)

These were conditions before the snow got heavy.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpsik04sfid.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpsik04sfid.jpeg.html)

PS: I made no attempt to hold over for distance but just put the red dot on the paster. I really like the easy controls on the RMR06 to fine tune the dot quickly to optimize the size of the dot depending upon conditions and the shot.

[GJM]

Crap, I just realized it wasn't my MOS 19, but rather my carry 19, which is a direct milled L&M RMR06 and Ameriglo tritium BUIS on a legacy Gen 4 19.

[Mike C]

Crap, I just realized it wasn't my MOS 19, but rather my carry 19, which is a direct milled L&M RMR06 and Ameriglo tritium BUIS on a legacy Gen 4 19.

Doesn't make that group any less awesome nor any less entertaining. Nice shooting GJM, following this thread with interest.

[LOKNLOD]

Every time I think "nah, I can totally hold off on trying an RDS pistol for a while..." somebody has to bump this darn thread. :rolleyes:

[Tuesday]

Any reason besides holster availability not to frame mount?

[GJM]

Any reason besides holster availability not to frame mount?

Holster issues and not legal in USPSA CO.

[Doc_Glock]

Crap, I just realized it wasn't my MOS 19, but rather my carry 19, which is a direct milled L&M RMR06 and Ameriglo tritium BUIS on a legacy Gen 4 19.

What distance did you zero this at?

[GJM]

What distance did you zero this at?

25

[Doc_Glock]

25

Thank you. I have sort of settled there as well and good to know it is that flat to 50.

[taadski]

I thought I felt a bit of a disturbance in the carry optics force this evening. Then about a minute later, I got this photo from GJM.


RIP tupperware. ;)





http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo324/taadski/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1310_zps2gdsqm0h.jpg

[GJM]

I thought I felt a bit of a disturbance in the carry optics force this evening. Then about a minute later, I got this photo from GJM.


RIP tupperware. ;)





http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo324/taadski/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1310_zps2gdsqm0h.jpg

Haters gonna hate.

[YVK]

Oh, shit. I was hoping we were done looking at 2 inch group pictures. Here comes round #2.


On a brighter side, can't lose the rear sight on this one.

[taadski]

Haters gonna hate.


That is 100% pure love, fine Sir. No hate anywhere in the room. I admittedly might feel a little sorry for the Glocks (and the FedEx guy) but no hate. ;)

[Dave Williams]

I thought I felt a bit of a disturbance in the carry optics force this evening. Then about a minute later, I got this photo from GJM.


RIP tupperware. ;)





http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo324/taadski/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1310_zps2gdsqm0h.jpg

Shit just got real.

[orionz06]

I thought I felt a bit of a disturbance in the carry optics force this evening. Then about a minute later, I got this photo from GJM.


RIP tupperware. ;)





http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo324/taadski/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1310_zps2gdsqm0h.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/orionz06/7043FA62-E28B-4B96-8CE9-0FC48FD494C0_zpsdpm1iagc.png (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/orionz06/media/7043FA62-E28B-4B96-8CE9-0FC48FD494C0_zpsdpm1iagc.png.html)


Sent from my Nokia 3310 using an owl

[StraitR]

LMAO!!! ^^^^^^^^

[Cheap Shot]

I thought I felt a bit of a disturbance in the carry optics force this evening. Then about a minute later, I got this photo from GJM.


RIP tupperware. ;)

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo324/taadski/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1310_zps2gdsqm0h.jpg

That thing is VERY sexy. Which CZ is that? How does it compare to shooting tupperware (my current rig)? How many classes in USPSA will I jump when I buy one?

[GJM]

It was bad enough when I was just getting trolled by a few only children. Even understood it when the gamers piled on. But now the coppers are trolling me. I need my own moderator assigned to look after me.

[Luke]

Sean rarely gets on, maybe LL can look after you part time?






















Too soon?
:)