SIG P228 failures to fire

[deputyG23]

My mid-90's P228 fails to fire on the first hit about fifty percent of the time with my handloaded rounds using CCI, Winchester, and Sellier and Bellot primers. A Glock 19 with the same loads averages one failure to fire on the first hit per fifty rounds.
With various factory ammo, the SIG fails to fire about once in one hundred rounds. I had the gun re-sprung about one thousand rounds ago with a TGS spring kit by a local SIG armorer. He informed me that the kit did not have a firing pin spring. Could this be the issue? My Beretta 92FC from the '80s eats all my reloads with no issues and great accuracy. Any and all comments are appreciated and welcomed.

[BehindBlueI's]

How's your primer seating depth on your reloads? If you're getting FTF with two guns and with a host of primers, that's the first place I'd look.

Are you priming on or off the press?

[deputyG23]

Off the press with a twenty five year old Lee priming tool that is probably worn out. I am considering a RCBS hand priming tool.

[BehindBlueI's]

Off the press with a twenty five year old Lee priming tool that is probably worn out. I am considering a RCBS hand priming tool.

Using a depth gauge or a "calibrated eyeball" does it look like some of your primers are crushed or seated well below flush?

If seating depth was the same across the board, you should have more failure to fire with the S&B primers then the domestic primers, as S&B are generally accepted as harder. If the percentage is an even 50%-ish no matter if it's soft or hard I think the tool might be the issue. A gun with a shorter firing pin may not be getting to the ones that are seated too deep. If your brass shows inconsistent primer strike depth on the ones that didn't go off, that's also indicative of variation in seating depth.

Of course things are always difficult to diagnose remotely, but I think I'd start with the priming tool before tinkering with any of the guns if any of the above sounds like it describes your situation.

[SecondsCount]

Are you wet or dry tumbling your brass?

[deputyG23]

Dry, with spent primers still in place.

[deputyG23]

Using a depth gauge or a "calibrated eyeball" does it look like some of your primers are crushed or seated well below flush?

If seating depth was the same across the board, you should have more failure to fire with the S&B primers then the domestic primers, as S&B are generally accepted as harder. If the percentage is an even 50%-ish no matter if it's soft or hard I think the tool might be the issue. A gun with a shorter firing pin may not be getting to the ones that are seated too deep. If your brass shows inconsistent primer strike depth on the ones that didn't go off, that's also indicative of variation in seating depth.

Of course things are always difficult to diagnose remotely, but I think I'd start with the priming tool before tinkering with any of the guns if any of the above sounds like it describes your situation.
The primers appear to be flush with the case head. Not above or below.
What would explain the one in one hundred factory round that doesn't fire on the first strike? Ammo was MKE and Federal Champion aluminum case bought from Wal-Mart.
I may try some brass case domestic rounds in the SIG, such as WWB or Federal AE.

[BehindBlueI's]

The primers appear to be flush with the case head. Not above or below.
What would explain the one in one hundred factory round that doesn't fire on the first strike? Ammo was MKE and Federal Champion aluminum case bought from Wal-Mart.
I may try some brass case domestic rounds in the SIG, such as WWB or Federal AE.

Since you mentioned reload I threw out what I could think of that would cause the issue from a reloader standpoint. I'm out of my depth as far as gun smithing beyond the bare basics of maintenance, so I won't venture further.

[5pins]

Have you tried cleaning out the firing pin channel?

[olstyn]

Given the hand priming, I would have guessed high primers (I find that I get much more reliable seating depth and much less hand fatigue priming on the press), but since that seems to have been ruled out, I'll second the firing pin channel cleaning advice. Make sure it's dry when you're done; lube in there can cause this problem. Taking it apart will also give you an opportunity to make sure your firing pin is still in good condition. That's about all I can offer.

[deputyG23]

Have you tried cleaning out the firing pin channel?
I have not and I have a strong suspicion that the armorer who did the spring kit minus the FP Spring did not. Would carb cleaner work?

[deputyG23]

The primers appear to be flush with the case head. Not above or below.
What would explain the one in one hundred factory round that doesn't fire on the first strike? Ammo was MKE and Federal Champion aluminum case bought from Wal-Mart.
I may try some brass case domestic rounds in the SIG, such as WWB or Federal AE.
Update - fired fifty rounds of Federal white box 115 grain ammo. No failures.

[deputyG23]

Another update - bought a new Lee XR priming tool and shell holder and assembled loads with 5.4 grains of BE-86, Winchester SP primer, and a 124 grain FP plated bullet. Loaded 100 rounds and fired them today. No misfires, good accuracy, and seems to mimic the recoil and report of our old 9mm service load (127 grain Ranger +P+). I am happy now.

[BehindBlueI's]

Another update - bought a new Lee XR priming tool and shell holder and assembled loads with 5.4 grains of BE-86, Winchester SP primer, and a 124 grain FP plated bullet. Loaded 100 rounds and fired them today. No misfires, good accuracy, and seems to mimic the recoil and report of our old 9mm service load (127 grain Ranger +P+). I am happy now.

http://1.images.comedycentral.com/images/shows/colbert_report/video_archive/season_4/cr_04009_01_v6.jpg

[SecondsCount]

Another update - bought a new Lee XR priming tool and shell holder and assembled loads with 5.4 grains of BE-86, Winchester SP primer, and a 124 grain FP plated bullet. Loaded 100 rounds and fired them today. No misfires, good accuracy, and seems to mimic the recoil and report of our old 9mm service load (127 grain Ranger +P+). I am happy now.

How did you like the new Lee priming tool? I have the old Lee tool and it is okay. I also have the Hornady and have used the RCBS, and strongly dislike both of them.

[olstyn]

How did you like the new Lee priming tool? I have the old Lee tool and it is okay.

Reading the description, it says it uses the same body as the old version; it looks like it's just the plastic parts that are new. I always found that doing more than about 50-100 rounds with it in a sitting led to painful hand cramps, hence my strong preference for priming on the press.

[deputyG23]

How did you like the new Lee priming tool? I have the old Lee tool and it is okay. I also have the Hornady and have used the RCBS, and strongly dislike both of them.
I have only primed one hundred 9mm cases so far and it works well. It seems to have a little better leverage than the old one for dealing with 9mm cases that still have a little primer crimp ring left. I am going to do a two hundred case session later this week.

[mmc45414]

I really like the primer rig they sold that went in the press like a die, but i think they quit selling it. I use it with one of their simple singe stage presses and it is great.

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[taadski]

Call me the voice of dissent, :p but your 228 should be going through whatever factory hard primers you put in it. You said the pistol had been "resprung" with a TGS spring kit. Are you referring to a standard parts kit, or perhaps one of the reduced power Grayguns kits? If the latter, and your envisioning using the pistol in a defensive capacity, I'd be thinking about putting a stock weight hammer (main) spring back in the gun.

As others mentioned, taking the slide down and ensuring there isn't any debris in the firing pin channel is a good idea. Be aware though that burrs can form on the firing pin itself causing light strikes. And they can be REALLY difficult to diagnose. If you've ruled out everything else, replacing the firing pin itself may remedy further issues.

I've dabbled with mainsprings as low as 17 and 18 lbs with good success trying to improve felt trigger weight in my match guns. Regardless, my work guns get full power ones.



t

[deputyG23]

I ordered the kit thinking it was a standard one. The trigger pull on the gun feels lighter than almost all other classic Sigs I have handled.
At this point, the P228 is strictly a range toy since my work gun is a Glock 23.
It may become an EDC post retirement in probably January 2018, unless someone pisses me off to the point where I punch my KMA card earlier.
At the next service interval, a heavier main spring will go in.

[Jeep]

Call me the voice of dissent, :p but your 228 should be going through whatever factory hard primers you put in it. You said the pistol had been "resprung" with a TGS spring kit. Are you referring to a standard parts kit, or perhaps one of the reduced power Grayguns kits? If the latter, and your envisioning using the pistol in a defensive capacity, I'd be thinking about putting a stock weight hammer (main) spring back in the gun.

As others mentioned, taking the slide down and ensuring there isn't any debris in the firing pin channel is a good idea. Be aware though that burrs can form on the firing pin itself causing light strikes. And they can be REALLY difficult to diagnose. If you've ruled out everything else, replacing the firing pin itself may remedy further issues.

I've dabbled with mainsprings as low as 17 and 18 lbs with good success trying to improve felt trigger weight in my match guns. Regardless, my work guns get full power ones.

t

I've found that a 19# mainspring will reliably bust all primers, including foreign ones and still make the DA pull not-ridiculous. 18 # mainsprings, in my experience, bust all American primers, but will have an occasional issue with a foreign primer.

[NEPAKevin]

I ordered the kit thinking it was a standard one. The trigger pull on the gun feels lighter than almost all other classic Sigs I have handled.
At this point, the P228 is strictly a range toy since my work gun is a Glock 23.
It may become an EDC post retirement in probably January 2018, unless someone pisses me off to the point where I punch my KMA card earlier.
At the next service interval, a heavier main spring will go in.

Older P series SIGs had a heavier trigger and at some point around the early nineties(?) they changed the design of the hammer strut/spring assembly to use a plastic main spring seat (http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-mainspring-seat-new-style-p220-p226-p228-p229.html), in stead of a captured spring which usually has a lighter feel and is much easier to remove and replace. With the admission that I suck at getting the strut back in place in the the hammer, changing the new style main/hammer spring is not that difficult and likely the reason for the light trigger. The old style, has no plastic piece and the spring is held on the strut by a tiny roll pin that sits on an extension of the frame, is a PIA to R&R the spring. If you dry fire a lot with out a snap cap or similar device, it is possible (as previously noted) to damage the firing pin. I had this happen with a P226 with a solid firing pin retaining pin and had to remove the FPRP, stone the edges where the firing pin had peened against the pin, clean out the firing pin channel and replace the firing pin spring and FPRP.

[LSP552]

I've found that a 19# mainspring will reliably bust all primers, including foreign ones and still make the DA pull not-ridiculous. 18 # mainsprings, in my experience, bust all American primers, but will have an occasional issue with a foreign primer.

I've found that a 19lb spring in a 226 will weaken enough over time and use to not bust primers, so I change it often. As a safety fudge, I change it about every 3-5 K.

My carry guns use stock springs.

[taadski]

I've found that a 19# mainspring will reliably bust all primers, including foreign ones and still make the DA pull not-ridiculous. 18 # mainsprings, in my experience, bust all American primers, but will have an occasional issue with a foreign primer.


I've found that a 19lb spring in a 226 will weaken enough over time and use to not bust primers, so I change it often. As a safety fudge, I change it about every 3-5 K.

My carry guns use stock springs.


We've had a bunch of issues with light strikes with both 124 grain Federal HST (our duty load) and our practice ammunition (American Eagle 124 ball) when testing the 19 lb mainsprings. In both 228s and 226s. Across enough guns that I don't consider it a fluke.