improve my FAST

[fuse]

With my shiny new shot timer, I ran the FAST several times to establish some baselines.

My new goal is a reliable sub 6 second FAST.

all runs clean.
1). 6.61 : 2.24, .71 / 2.45 / .43, .41, .37
2). 7.00 : 2.20, .65 / 2.90 / .44, .41, .40
3). 6.50 : 2.18, .65 / 2.52 / .45, .38, .42
4). 6.58 : 2.06, .58 / 2.71 / .42, .42, .38
5). 6.36 : 2.23, .62 / 2.54 / .40, .32, .25
6). 6.58 : 2.23, .57 / 2.60 / .40, .41, .28

On run #5, I tried to really speed my splits up. My comfort zone seems to be .40 - .45.

at this time going faster feels quasi out of control. of course the only way to go faster is to go faster.

Also, it would appear my reloads are pretty slow. I have worked on them alot since this class (http://pistol-training.com/archives/5289) (hint: I am student #1) and I don't think they're currently as awful as mentioned. It seems like the main thing that slows me down is the target re-acquisition, not necessarily gassing up the gun. Which is kind of odd, since its such a big target. I am trying to get clean runs every time, and I think I am trying to get an unnecessarily clean and perfect sight picture on the first body shot. When I do this, I feel I am most stable, and the following body shots are usually still hits.

Or, its very possible my reloads are simply still really really shitty.

What needs the most improvement?

[DocGKR]

Have you spent a lot of time doing what student #2 did?

[fuse]

I have a love/hate relationship with the press out. I love to hate it. so, no.

From the draw I basically punch the gun out there, I think. I may aquire the sights on the way out, but more likely I am just relying on a fairly consistent index.

I'm not actively trying to do a press out as I have had so little success doing it. though admittedly its something one must dedicate hours upon hours of slow, dedicated, repetitive practice at. Which I am very very bad at doing. hence the not doing a press out.

***

but point taken.

so thats one vote for 'do a press out'. any others?

[JConn]

You know I think the press out is the key. However, maybe we should attempt to video tape you and attempt to diagnose problems that way.

[John Hearne]

For me, the FAST drill is 3 things:
1) Two head shots in 2.0 seconds (with draconian penalties for missing)
2) 2.0 second reload
3) 4 rounds in 1.0 second

Feel free to practice each of these and more importantly, the components of each of these. They seem to come in order of hardest to easiest to me.

[GJM]

For me, the FAST drill is 3 things:
1) Two head shots in 2.0 seconds (with draconian penalties for missing)
2) 2.0 second reload
3) 4 rounds in 1.0 second

Feel free to practice each of these and more importantly, the components of each of these. They seem to come in order of hardest to easiest to me.

I think you need to add .2 to the two first shots, and subtract .2 from the reload.

[YVK]

For me, the FAST drill is 3 things:
1) Two head shots in 2.0 seconds (with draconian penalties for missing)
2) 2.0 second reload
3) 4 rounds in 1.0 second



Since reload is measured at the time of a third shot, one has only 3 shots left after that. So, if I understand you correctly, your FAST is two in 2.0, 2.0 reload and then three shots with 0.25 splits for a total time of 4.75.

Fuse, my opinion is that first three shots make or break FAST drill and I believe your biggest gain will be in reload improvement. Having said that, I think your splits on a big target can be faster and you can shave down at least 0.30 sec there. Whether you use pressout or not is up to you; if you address those two things that seem on a slower side, you'll be in 5 sec range with your current approach to your first shot.

[JAD]

What needs the most improvement?

I can imagine that there are quite a few people who survived because they could place precise shots quickly from the leather. I never heard about the guy who died because his emergency reload was 2.2 seconds rather than 1.8.

[JV_]

I never heard about the guy who died because his emergency reload was 2.2 seconds rather than 1.8.Nor have I. But the thought of sending 2 additional bullets downrange, in that .4s, seems pretty nice.

[Dropkick]

I remember being told once that the best way to improve a FAST time is to break it down into it's components and practice those piece by piece repeatedly instead of running the whole drill over and over from start to finish.

While you might think your reloads need work, you might find that with the same levels of practice it could be easier to drop time from your draw, vice versa, etc.

That is to say, practicing all the parts separately will help you improve no matter what, but you might be able to make improvements on one part quicker than another.

[jetfire]

I have to agree that one of the big keys to the FAST drill for guys not named Dave Sevigny is the press-out. The first two shots in my opinion are the hardest part of the drill and the place where it's easiest to go wrong. If I were practicing to win a coin, I do many, many reps of drawing to a 3x5 index card.

[ToddG]

I have worked on them alot since this class (http://pistol-training.com/archives/5289) (hint: I am student #1)

I cannot tell you how many people from that class think they're "student #1" ... it's quite funny.

And yes, your reload does suck. So maybe I'd spend more time, ohIdon'tknow, practicing my reload?


Since reload is measured at the time of a third shot, one has only 3 shots left after that. So, if I understand you correctly, your FAST is two in 2.0, 2.0 reload and then three shots with 0.25 splits for a total time of 4.75.

That's always the way I look at it. It gives me a quarter second cushion.

[JAD]

Nor have I. But the thought of sending 2 additional bullets downrange, in that .4s, seems pretty nice.
Why is that? Sending the first nine, or sixteen, downrange with 0.01 splits didn't do me a lot of good, apparently.

[ToddG]

Why is that? Sending the first nine, or sixteen, downrange with 0.01 splits didn't do me a lot of good, apparently.

If we want to debate the value or lack thereof of reload speed, let's do it in a separate thread, please.

[joshs]

What needs the most improvement?

This depends on what you want to do, but the easier question to answer is: where can you most easily improve?

I find that skills that I can dry fire are the easiest to improve. In this case, the draw and reload.

For improving you draw using dry fire, I would start slow, until you have a perfect draw/press out. Using a small target will force you to do a press out. Once you feel that you have perfected the motion, start to add speed, especially driving you hand to the gun and getting the gun in front of your face. These should be done as fast as you can safely move you hands.

For reloads, start with an empty gun (slide locked back) aimed in on the target. On the start signal, perform a reload and re-engage the target. Using a small target will again ensure that you do a press out after the reload. There are three places where many people waste time on reloads.

The first is initiating the reload. As soon as you see the sights lift on the second head shot, your brain should send the "reload" command. If you watch videos of really speedy FASTs, you will see the muzzle lift on the second shot and the reload will begin. Many shooters unnecessarily recover from recoil before beginning the reload. The second place to pick up time is getting your hand off the gun and on the mag quickly. This is another place where you should be moving your hand as fast as physically possible, but don't compromise getting a good grip on the mag for a little extra speed, it doesn't pay off. The final place where many people loose time on the reload is not performing a post-reload press out. To set yourself up for a successful press out, perform the reload at a height that leaves the front sight inline with the target so you can begin the press out without moving the gun vertically.

[Dropkick]

Good stuff JoshS!

[Corey]

I am trying to improve my FAST as well by working on the skills. I suck on the first two shots. That is what is killing me on this drill. I did three runs yesterday and my reloads times were 1.88, 1.94, and 1.94. First time I have done my reloads under 2 seconds for all three runs. My splits on the 8” plate averaged .32 seconds with 2 misses total out of the three runs. Not great, but not too bad. My times for the first two shots were 3.19, 2.82, and 2.85. And I had two misses total out of those 6 shots. It was the first time I got all my shots off under 6 seconds (on 2 of the three runs) so I am happy about that, but none of my three runs were clean.

At least for me it is obvious what to work on. While my reloads were great yesterday, those were not average for me. Need to get consistent at making my reloads at that speed. My splits on the plate are ok and I think that part will take care of itself if I work on my first two shots. I have to do a lot of work on my press out and getting the hits on those first two shots faster. My immediate goal is to be able to consistently get the first two shots in 2.75 seconds. Then I will work on 2.5 seconds and so on. Break it down into components, find the component that needs the most work and focus there. I am guessing that by the time I am doing a consistent 2.5 on the first two shots, my splits on the plate will be a little faster as well without putting much work specifically on that. And of course I have to stop missing shots. In my defense, I usually run clean 2 out of three runs, but yesterday I was deliberately pushing my speed to see what would happen.

Planning this stuff is easy, now let’s see if I can implement the plan.

[ToddG]

If you're not consistently getting all your hits, the thing you need to work on is getting hits, not doing other stuff faster.

Instead of looking at raw times, look at total score. "I shot a 4.86 FAST with one missed head and one missed body" isn't a 4.86 FAST!

[DocGKR]

Well said !!!

[Corey]

I agree. Normally I only look at total score and work on getting clean runs. I have a good feel for how fast I can go and get a clean run, but I have been having a problem with sitting at a plateau for some time and so yesterday was a case of trying go faster just for the sake of going faster than I was used to and seeing what happened. I wanted to see how fast I could go and where things would go wrong.

I typically shoot 3 FAST drills to start a practice session. I rarely have more than one miss in those three runs so I know I can make the hits and I know how quickly I can do it. The problem for me has been that I just haven’t been getting any quicker on it. I have never had a raw time under 6 seconds before yesterday, but have I have regularly been under 7 seconds clean. My thinking is that no it wasn’t a sub-6 second FAST (which is my goal for now), but I got past what has been a mental barrier for me about being able to manipulate the gun at that speed. Now I can go back to working on the component parts so I can consistently get all my hits at that speed.

I hope it didn’t sound like I was advocating just going fast without worrying about hits, instead I trying something to get past what has been a hurdle for me. It was a case of if you are going to learn to shoot fast, sometimes you have to shoot faster (as I learned from someone much better at this). Perhaps a complete FAST drill isn’t the place to put that into practice, but I had been trying it on the component parts without seeing it come together on the whole drill and since it was just a range session with nothing on the line I figured it couldn’t hurt to try it once and see what would happen. I certainly wouldn’t recommend making it a regular thing.

On a side note, my first split after the reload is consistently much longer than the next two splits. Some examples from some clean runs: .43, .29, 32; .41, .28, .27; .45, .33, .29. Any comments or suggestions on what is happening?

[ToddG]

Are you getting a good aimed shot with a good grip from the reload or are you (a) having to relocate the sights after that first shot, (b) having to regrip the gun after that first shot, or (c) both?

[Corey]

Somehow I knew you would know the right question to ask. I would say the answer is c, but not at the same time. Normally it is relocating my sights after the first shot. I have occasionally had to shift my grip and I have noticed that it is a bigger spread in the splits when that happens. I suspect I may be breaking the first shot after the reload before my arms reach full extension, making the recovery take longer. Does that make any sense?

[John Hearne]

Just had this thought the other day and thought I'd float it. If you want to improve your FAST performance do you really want to do your development at 7 yds. Would there be any benefit to starting closer (based on your skill level) and then adding distance as your performance improves?

[Mr_White]

Just had this thought the other day and thought I'd float it. If you want to improve your FAST performance do you really want to do your development at 7 yds. Would there be any benefit to starting closer (based on your skill level) and then adding distance as your performance improves?

I had the opposite idea.

Yesterday I was working on tightening aspects of standards, other than time. I was trying not to go full speed ahead, and simply relaxed more mentally in an effort to shoot 100% hits a tad slower than usual, to a tighter target zone.

I applied this to the FAST, just for the legit three runs, using an IPSC target, shooting for the little A-zone in the head instead of a 3"x5" card, and shooting for the A-zone in the body above the letter A, and I did it from about 9 yards instead of 7 yards.

Times were a bit slower than usual (ended up with a range of about 4.6x to 5.6x) but the hits were there.

I have no data to cite, but it subjectively felt useful for trying to tighten accuracy. I'm going to try restricting myself to this more difficult version of the FAST for a while, maybe a month or two, and see if I realize increased performance (accuracy and consistency, not time) on the regular FAST.

[Prdator]

"Based on Skill Level" I think John hit it on the head there. For instance, if a shooter was running 12 second FAST's ( clean) Id say move closer and work faster on the basic items that the FAST requires ( not the FAST its self). For a guy that's running 6sec or below or blowing shots then moving farther out might be a great idea. But you have to be making the hits!! And agin work on the basics not the FAST. Its just a test to give you feedback on YOUR capability.

I do this from time to time and I do my Dryfire on either a reduced size 3x5 card or at longer ranges. I'd like to say this has really helped my FAST times but Ive yet to get a Coin. :mad:

OrigamiAK,

I think if you dedicate yourself to this it could work out very well for you!!!!!

[EVP]

I have a quick question about the fast drill.

When I shoot at an indoor range with poor lighting I some times have a little challange getting a good hard front sight focus. Some times I can't make out the lines on the paper target and kinda resort to a target focus or something in between. Do you find doing this will hamper things down the road? What works best for y'all?

[HK_Feeder]

Kevin,

The same thing used to bother me way back when--that is, different ranges having different lighting conditions: some ideal for sight picture, some not so much. Then I realized that this is actually a benefit; assuming one of the main reasons you shoot is to be proficient with your firearm in a self-defense scenario, you should realize that if that gun ever clears the holster with a purpose, you're not going to get to choose your lighting conditions. Shooting at different ranges with varying light conditions helps you to better adapt to a wider variety of conditions. Also, I found that jumping on the bandwagon and painting my front sight made a freakin' world of difference and helps tremendously in all light conditions. Food for thought.

To Fuse, the O.P.,

Hey man, I'm the guy you bumped into at the NRA range tonight. Told you I'd be a member here soon. As for your F.A.S.T. drill, I think I may be able to help. Now I'm hardly an expert--my only claim to limited authority on the subject here is that my best F.A.S.T. drill is a 5.09. However, as I mentioned at the range, I'm coming off a 6 month period with zero rounds sent downrange, and I'm so rusty right now I need a freakin' tetanus shot. My average F.A.S.T. this first week back at it has been ~5.8. I do remember what I worked on that made me as proficient at the drill as I was though, and I'm employing the same strategy again. If you like, let me know and we can hit the range some time and see if we can't smooth our edges out a bit. For now, two things jump out at me based on the splits you posted.

1) Your reload. You seem to average around a 2.6, which isn't bad at all. I'm fairly confident this is something I could help you with though, as I believe I have the mechanics of it down fairly well. One dry-fire drill I run almost daily is as follows: Tape index card to a wall, stand 3 yards away. Set shot timer par to 2.5 seconds. Start with your gun extended, sights on target, as if you're in the process of shooting it. On the beep, execute reload (don't worry about releasing the slide since its often a PITA with an empty gun and will negatively affect your time), press-out to reacquire your sights on the index card and dry fire once as soon as you believe the shot would hit. The goal is to get the 'click' before the 'beep.' Once you can do that repeatedly, drop the par time to 2.4, then 2.3, etc. You can also try standing farther and farther from the wall.

2) Your last 3 shots. This is almost totally a recoil management and sight-tracking thing. My recommendation is to do lots of bill-drills. They helped me a ton with my ability to grip-and-rip. Once you get faster at the bill-drills, double taps into an index card at 5 yards will help tighten your group (vary this by running the drill with index cards facing vertically, horizontally and eventually diagonally, which really helps you hone in on the center of the bulls-eye-less 3x5s).

Shoot angry,
Steve