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View Full Version : Is ball and dummy a diagnostic drill only...


YVK
10-21-2011, 05:02 PM
...or remedial too?

Under suspicion that my P30 shooting low is due to anticipation and not because of sights, I ran a few rounds of B&D. I've not found any issues with trigger control or anticipation whether I rolled through the press or staged. However, after I did B&D my groups started to print higher. Thoughts, ideas?
zml342
10-21-2011, 05:09 PM
How fast were you going through each drill? Did you go through b&d slow to allow for a controlled trigger press and then faster for the other drill? Were there any differences in your grip or the amount of finger on the trigger?
YVK
10-21-2011, 05:29 PM
I think I went the same speed, but maybe you're right and I went faster before B&D. B&D is a slow/single shot drill. Trigger finger didn't change.

Dunno, maybe I need to repeat this a few times when I am rested better.
Jay Cunningham
10-21-2011, 05:35 PM
...or remedial too?

Under suspicion that my P30 shooting low is due to anticipation and not because of sights, I ran a few rounds of B&D. I've not found any issues with trigger control or anticipation whether I rolled through the press or staged. However, after I did B&D my groups started to print higher. Thoughts, ideas?

Have you ever been run through Vickers' B&D Drill?
YVK
10-21-2011, 05:40 PM
Have you ever been run through Vickers' B&D Drill?

Jay, I don't know what exactly you're referring to. I took two Vickers classes. At that time he had a regular slow B&D, command B&D and timed B&D, but I don't know if there is another drill.
Jay Cunningham
10-21-2011, 08:46 PM
Vickers incorporates remedial dry fire if you snatch the trigger - most trainers don't do this.
jslaker
10-21-2011, 09:56 PM
When I was having anticipation issues and started a thread about it here, a number of people suggested B&D work as a possibly effective drill.

And then SLG suggested rapid fire instead; I like his style.
YVK
10-21-2011, 10:13 PM
Ball and dummy is an effective drill to diagnose anticipation. I dunno if it does anything to cure it though by itself, hence the question.

I am not sure how rapid fire helps it. I am just starting to seriously work with P30, and so far a longer trigger pull seems to actually make it worse. I haven't done much of fast fire, just one comparo session on pressout, and I consistently hit low. I don't know if it is anticipation, or new longer timing of trigger pull doesn't sync well my my old, earlier timed, post-ignition push, or what.

At this point I am just trying to figure out low poi of this gun. After today session it seems that the gun does shoot a bit low and maybe I have some anticipation with it. I was surprised though that on slow BD I didn't seem to have front sight move.
jslaker
10-21-2011, 10:19 PM
This is the thread in question:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?p=4639

The Dreaded Flinch

In my case, I knew my problem was a flinch and I was having trouble shaking it over the course of a couple of months.
joshs
10-21-2011, 10:23 PM
new longer timing of trigger pull doesn't sync well my my old, earlier timed, post-ignition push . . .

I had this problem when switching from Glock to P30. I used lots of dry-fire and very slow press-outs to reprogram my subconscious. Shooting fast helps because you don't have as much time to think about the shot going off, so you are less likely to anticipate.
zml342
10-22-2011, 06:57 PM
How is your follow through? I have discovered that when I don't follow through (and get that final sight picture) I end up jerking/pushing the gun slightly causing a low poi.

I can run b&d drills and have great groupings because I'm so focused on the drill and what it is supposed to show. But when I run other drills and forget to follow through I mess up and cause a low poi.

Your case may be different...