Delta Point Pro battery life sucks

[GJM]

I have a pair of DP Pro red dot sights I am running on Glock MOS pistols. They seem to be eating batteries, as in one or more a week. I just hung up with Leupold, and they told me their testing showed the battery to last six days when left on.

I asked how that was going to work on a carry gun. Silence.

[LOKNLOD]

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/facepalm2_zpsypdhol9o.gif

Wasn't there some here - KevinB perhaps? - running DP Pros on his carry guns, including a Shield?

[SecondsCount]

Pheew! For a second there I thought I was going to have to have the slide milled on my P2000. :p

[Default.mp3]

Wasn't there some here - KevinB perhaps? - running DP Pros on his carry guns, including a Shield?IIRC, KevinB was running the DP Pro on his M&Ps, but his Shield had just a normal DP. I have not seen him ever indicate that he had issues with the battery life, but he doesn't seem to be too active on the forums since he started at FN.


Pheew! For a second there I thought I was going to have to have the slide milled on my P2000. :pJust get the RMR instead. I wish I still had that picture of the Mark Housel install on a P2000, just to tempt you, but alas, Mark has made much of his flickr private again.

[TAZ]

That sux. Doesn't it have a auto shut off?

[GJM]

That sux. Doesn't it have a auto shut off?

Yes, so any motion turns it back on.

[Crusader8207]

I have one of the older DPs on a Glock 19 and the same battery for well over a year and still going strong. I was milling around in the safe last night and looked at it and just looked to see if the dot was still illuminated and it was.

[Mr_White]

Battery needs moar dilithium crystals, but no one wants to wait for The Future

[Gray222]

http://paulmarin.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/you-dont-say.jpg

[DocGKR]

Meanwhile the RMR's are having near Aimpoint battery life--an RMR02 here went 4 years before it started to dim. We now have several RMR06's over 3 years without a battery change...

[YVK]

I am holding out until RDS tech will have a built in termo-kinetic generator. Charge the battery from heat and slide movement, that's the way of 21st century. And holographic imaging without physical screens.

Bet H&K will develop that first.

[SLG]

I wonder when they will design sights that last almost forever, and need no maintenance. Oh wait... :-)

Am I a Luddite?

[GJM]

I have one of the older DPs on a Glock 19 and the same battery for well over a year and still going strong. I was milling around in the safe last night and looked at it and just looked to see if the dot was still illuminated and it was.

I think it is a DP Pro issue, as Robbie Leatham told me his regular DP battery has gone multiple years. My two Pro's are better than a battery a week, and seem consistent with Leupold's six day estimate.

Meanwhile the RMR's are having near Aimpoint battery life--an RMR02 here went 4 years before it started to dim. We now have several RMR06's over 3 years without a battery change...

I have yet to change the battery in my original RM02.


I wonder when they will design sights that last almost forever, and need no maintenance. Oh wait... :-)

Am I a Luddite?

The RDS is this year's essential, like a concealment magwell.

[GRV]

The RDS is this year's essential, like a concealment magwell.

Dude, you're so behind the style. All the cool kids are running MRDS, magwell, match barrel, and compensator minimum. I don't know how you expect to bullseye womp rats with anything less.

[SLG]

The RDS is this year's essential, like a concealment magwell.[/QUOTE]

NOW you tell me. Better go order 5 of them then. :-)

[GRV]

NOW you tell me. Better go order 5 of them then. :-)

You mean concealment magwells, right?

[SLG]

5 concealment mag wells and 5 battery holders. Check.

In all seriousness, the battery life does not surprise me. The optic was created for a unit that will change the batteries every day when working. I'm sure no one cared what the CCW market thought about that.

[BaiHu]

I'm just waiting for the cheat code that allows my sights to go right for headshots, regardless of muzzle orientation.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Mr_White]

Am I a Luddite?

Yes, and on this, so am I. I'll probably start thinking about MRDS when my eyes have a hard time with irons. By then the technology should be a lot better too.

[SLG]

Yes, and on this, so am I. I'll probably start thinking about MRDS when my eyes have a hard time with irons. By then the technology should be a lot better too.

Who cares about advances in MRDS? By then you will just pop new eyes in. :-)

[GJM]

Wonder if Tom Jones can design a grip plug that holds a battery, and puts that cavity on the Glock to good use.

[GRV]

Wonder if Tom Jones can design a grip plug that holds a battery, and puts that cavity on the Glock to good use.

Beat me to the punch.

I'm envisioning a modified FAST that involves a battery reload on the MRDS.

[Drang]

Who cares about advances in MRDS? By then you will just pop new eyes in. :-)

Faster, please!

[LSP552]

Yes, and on this, so am I. I'll probably start thinking about MRDS when my eyes have a hard time with irons. By then the technology should be a lot better too.

And that's my problem. HDs have added a little life to my 60 yr old eyes, but technology needs to get moving a bit more quickly.

[SLG]

I'm sure I've said this before, but just to counter my particularly grumpy attitude as of late, I really like MRDS on pistols, and recognize the advantages they offer. Unlike many, I can shoot them every bit as fast as irons, under all conditions. I have no reason to not like them. What I don't like, is the current state of the MRDS. I don't consider them to be ready for duty carry, and likely won't be for a while. I have seen too many fail, and heard from too many friends about them failing. None have passed any legit testing, afaik.

A few guys and i were discussing this the other day. You would know most or all of them. All were BTDT guys, several of whom are or were national champs as well. All agreed that the MRDS detracts from the mission of the pistol in that the pistol is like a reserve chute. It really has to work when you need it, and compromising that to any degree at all, for gains that mostly don't matter in real fights, is not the correct way to look at things.

Nonetheless, I have several guns in my house that have various optics on them, and I do enjoy shooting them. I just won't carry one.

[El Cid]

Meanwhile the RMR's are having near Aimpoint battery life--an RMR02 here went 4 years before it started to dim. We now have several RMR06's over 3 years without a battery change...

I guess I am the unluckiest guy around then. I'll be calling Trijicon Monday - 2 RMR06's from 2 different vendors, one a 3.25moa and the other a 1moa are flickering and turning on/off under recoil. The one on the handgun doesn't reciprocate (6 Second Mount) and the other is on an AR. I stuffed a small amount of tape under the one on the pistol which has seemingly fixed it but for what they cost that's unacceptable. Between this and the MRO issues I think Trijicon should market their hobby grade red dots just to the airsofters.


Yes, so any motion turns it back on.

Guess you'll need to hold perfectly still when carrying it. :rolleyes:

[DocGKR]

Bad luck indeed. I've been around several dozen of the newer RMR06's that have exhibited minimal problems, including a fair number approaching the 10,000 rd mark. The few that had issues were returned to Trijicon, who promptly repaired/replaced them.

[SLG]

Bad luck indeed. I've been around several dozen of the newer RMR06's that have exhibited minimal problems, including a fair number approaching the 10,000 rd mark. The few that had issues were returned to Trijicon, who promptly repaired/replaced them.

From what I've seen, which is all anecdotal at best, the RMR's seem to be the most durable option out there. I really want to like the DP Pro, but 6 days is pretty lame. My old DP's are still going strong, but they are on range guns, not guns that get carried.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I've asked this on PF before, w/ no responses. Would anyone care to speculate on when AP intro's their new MRD for pistols, the NRA confab perhaps?

Asking as I've heard it's existence confirmed to my ears by a man named Wilson, Hackathorn & an AP rep but nothing more so ......

[GJM]

I am really hoping there is an option from Aimpoint soon.

Next week, I will be comparing shoot-ability between the DP Pro and RM06.

[Default.mp3]

FYI:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1445/26663617965_4afe9c40c7_o.png

As to the Aimpoint tangent, I have heard this from a reputable source:

pistol sight is "refinement" of existing Micro series aimed on needs of pistol useSource: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?183199-WTK-re-New-Aimpoint-Optic&p=2308882#post2308882

Other posts in that thread corroborate that claim.

[GJM]

How come I need to replace the battery every week in my two I use for daily shooting and dry fire, and Leupold CS said that was about right?

[Default.mp3]

How come I need to replace the battery every week in my two I use for daily shooting and dry fire, and Leupold CS said that was about right?Maybe Lamb gets a cherry-picked optic. Maybe Leupold CS is out of the loop and your optic is actually not performing up to spec. Either way, I'd be digging deeper about this battery issue if I were the owner of a Deltapoint Pro. For now, I'm just thankful I was talked into settling for an RMR.

[YVK]

How come I need to replace the battery every week in my two I use for daily shooting and dry fire, and Leupold CS said that was about right?

I wonder if there's difference in battery longevity between rifle and pistol use. Too tired to type more to explain but check this angle.

[GJM]

Maybe Lamb gets a cherry-picked optic. Maybe Leupold CS is out of the loop and your optic is actually not performing up to spec. Either way, I'd be digging deeper about this battery issue if I were the owner of a Deltapoint Pro. For now, I'm just thankful I was talked into settling for an RMR.

What is odd is that I have two and both do the same thing as regards battery life. I have a third on the way, so that will provide more insight.

Seems the possibilities are:

1) I have two lemons.

2) Kyle got to "special" ones.

3) he has Special Forces secret batteries.

4) he isn't shooting and dry firing as much as me, and is casually estimating both his use and battery life.

[BillSWPA]

What is odd is that I have two and both do the same thing as regards battery life. I have a third on the way, so that will provide more insight.

Seems the possibilities are:

1) I have two lemons.

2) Kyle got to "special" ones.

3) he has Special Forces secret batteries.

4) he isn't shooting and dry firing as much as me, and is casually estimating both his use and battery life.

Your battery life for the first two is this bad and you have a third one on the way?

I have no basis to praise or criticize the DP Pro, but based on your reported experience, you have a lot more patience than me.

[GJM]

Your battery life for the first two is this bad and you have a third one on the way?

I have no basis to praise or criticize the DP Pro, but based on your reported experience, you have a lot more patience than me.

I think they are the best choice now for USPSA Carry Optics, and that is what I am shooting now. I have an Area match in two weeks, so I sucked it up for now. My carry gun has an RMR 06.

[fireguy275]

A good friend of mine has been using a Deltapoint Pro on his duty Glock17 since late last year. I asked him about his battery life and he said he got 4 months off his last battery with no dimming, has had no problems and changed it when he changed out some other batteries. This is his carry gun and he shoots a few times a week before shift.

GJM: are all your batteries from the same LOT #?

[GJM]

This is good info. Several different battery makers and packaging. When my new Pro arrives, I will replace my #1 Pro with the new one, and see what happens. Will prob hold off returning #1 until after the Area match, as it has held zero perfectly once loctited.

[GJM]

I have just spent 15 minutes on the Leupold website, reading everything about the DP Pro. The ad copy says "extended battery life," but there is no mention of battery life in the specifications tab online or in the manual for the Pro. Finally, in the FAQ, I found where Leupold answered the question on battery life -- 190 hours on high (and high is the setting most will use outside in sunshine shooting action pistol). So, 190 hours on high, is 7.91 days. The motion sensor auto shut off can extend that, but if you are carrying the pistol or traveling with it, the dot will stay on. He is a link to the 190 hour reference:


https://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/deltapoint-reflex-sights/deltapoint-pro/


I would say Mr Lamb has been slacking on his dry and live firing if he is getting six months out of a battery.

[NickDrak]

I guess I am the unluckiest guy around then. I'll be calling Trijicon Monday - 2 RMR06's from 2 different vendors, one a 3.25moa and the other a 1moa are flickering and turning on/off under recoil. The one on the handgun doesn't reciprocate (6 Second Mount) and the other is on an AR. I stuffed a small amount of tape under the one on the pistol which has seemingly fixed it but for what they cost that's unacceptable. Between this and the MRO issues I think Trijicon should market their hobby grade red dots just to the airsofters.



Guess you'll need to hold perfectly still when carrying it. :rolleyes:

The issues you mentioned with your RMRs are common with them being mounted improperly, NOT the RMR unit. Are you using the proper length mounting screws? Is the rubber gasket properly seated? Are you using a sealing plate? I also recommend placing a small, round (dime sized) piece of electrical on the bottom of the CR2032 battery.

[Mark Housel]

IIRC, KevinB was running the DP Pro on his M&Ps, but his Shield had just a normal DP. I have not seen him ever indicate that he had issues with the battery life, but he doesn't seem to be too active on the forums since he started at FN.

Just get the RMR instead. I wish I still had that picture of the Mark Housel install on a P2000, just to tempt you, but alas, Mark has made much of his flickr private again.
Sorry, I seem to have very inconsistent behavior of the security settings on Flicker. I set things to public and sometimes they stick and other times they seem to change, perhaps related to uploading other pictures of family which are set to private.
I will see if I can find those pictures and check the settings on them [again].

I think that these are what you were referring to?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/17795349@N08/albums/72157640635903783

[GJM]

I think that these are what you were referring to?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/17795349@N08/albums/72157640635903783

Mark, gorgeous installation!

[YVK]

I have just spent 15 minutes on the Leupold website, reading everything about the DP Pro. The ad copy says "extended battery life," but there is no mention of battery life in the specifications tab online or in the manual for the Pro. Finally, in the FAQ, I found where Leupold answered the question on battery life -- 190 hours on high (and high is the setting most will use outside in sunshine shooting action pistol). So, 190 hours on high, is 7.91 days. The motion sensor auto shut off can extend that, but if you are carrying the pistol or traveling with it, the dot will stay on. He is a link to the 190 hour reference:


https://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/deltapoint-reflex-sights/deltapoint-pro/


I would say Mr Lamb has been slacking on his dry and live firing if he is getting six months out of a battery.

190 hours divided by 6 months is 32 hours per month, or approx one hour of daily use. I think it would be consistent how much time others get out of it. I highly doubt that anyone other than dedicated gamers use their pistols one hour a day every day. Question is what happens with dot when gun's holstered, what motion sensor does etc.

Your own experience still doesn't add up because changing the battery weekly with projected 190 hours life should mean that your unit is on non-stop all week long.

[GJM]

I have just spent 15 minutes on the Leupold website, reading everything about the DP Pro. The ad copy says "extended battery life," but there is no mention of battery life in the specifications tab online or in the manual for the Pro. Finally, in the FAQ, I found where Leupold answered the question on battery life -- 190 hours on high (and high is the setting most will use outside in sunshine shooting action pistol). So, 190 hours on high, is 7.91 days. The motion sensor auto shut off can extend that, but if you are carrying the pistol or traveling with it, the dot will stay on. He is a link to the 190 hour reference:


https://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/deltapoint-reflex-sights/deltapoint-pro/


I would say Mr Lamb has been slacking on his dry and live firing if he is getting six months out of a battery.



https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?200

[Rex G]

I think I could tolerate changing the battery weekly, if an optic has a readily-accessible battery compartment. More-frequent changing might get to be annoying. Six days would probably be annoying; so close to one week, but not quite there.

An Aimpoint Micro T-1 would be best, but is a bit large for a concealed handgun. Hmm; hoping for a mini-Micro.

[DocGKR]

I've carried Aimpoint equipped G19, G17, and M&P9 in JMC AIWB holsters without any issues with comfort or concealment--problem is that Aimpoint equipped handguns don't fit into duty holsters as well.

[Rex G]

I've carried Aimpoint equipped G19, G17, and M&P9 in JMC AIWB holsters without any issues with comfort or concealment--problem is that Aimpoint equipped handguns don't fit into duty holsters as well.

Thanks. Perhaps I should just try it. Well, I cannot carry an optic-equipped duty pistol, anyway; only patrol rifles can have optics, but retirement is not far away. (The no-optic rule applies to off-the-clock carry handguns, too.)

I presume you have carried these pistols with slide-mounted Aimpoints? The ALG 6-Second mount, with Aimpoint Micro, is the only combo I have handled; that one seems a bit wide for carrying inside the trousers.

[DocGKR]

Slide mounted Aimpoints only; ALG mount is a no go for CCW or duty holsters....

[GJM]

Just an update — since I have switched to Duracell 2032 batteries, I am not having the very short battery life I experienced with Sony and Energizer batteries in the DP Pro.

Unfortunately, the DP Pro on my number one Q5 has started going to sleep at matches, between stages, and not waking up unless I turn it on again. Will have to send it back to Leupold.

[flyrodr]

Just an update — since I have switched to Duracell 2032 batteries, I am not having the very short battery life I experienced with Sony and Energizer batteries in the DP Pro.

George, Is the battery life with the 2032s sufficient for reliable use on a carry gun? As much as several months to a year or more of life with the DPP turned on? Close to the RMR battery life?

Thanks.

[JAD]

That’s interesting. The 2032 is a 225 mAh cell. What were the part numbers of the Sony and Energizer batteries you were using?

[GJM]

George, Is the battery life with the 2032s sufficient for reliable use on a carry gun? As much as several months to a year or more of life with the DPP turned on? Close to the RMR battery life?

Thanks.

No idea. The Sony and Energizer 2032 batteries seemed to last 1-3 weeks in my DP Pro units. I have gotten beyond 1-3 weeks, but nowhere near RMR battery life. Right now, for various reasons, I find neither RMR or DP Pro up to my requirements for EDC, Given my ability to shoot iron sights.


That’s interesting. The 2032 is a 225 mAh cell. What were the part numbers of the Sony and Energizer batteries you were using?

Not sure beyond 2032 bought off Amazon.

[JAD]

That’s interesting. They all have basically the same capacity, and I seriously doubt there’s any real “quality” difference among them, so that makes me think that there’s a contact issue that is sapping energy through resistive loss. Either the D cell is thicker, or made with a different can that is easier for the contacts to love up.

[GJM]

That’s interesting. They all have basically the same capacity, and I seriously doubt there’s any real “quality” difference among them, so that makes me think that there’s a contact issue that is sapping energy through resistive loss. Either the D cell is thicker, or made with a different can that is easier for the contacts to love up.


The Sage RDS study reported premature battery failures with brands other than Duracell, hence my change to Duracell given the poor battery life I had been experiencing with my DP Pro units.

[flyrodr]

Thanks. We who are cursed with poor/highly corrected eyesight are waiting for an RDS that is small, but is easy to pick up; light, but rugged; has long battery life; . . . etc. . . .

[GJM]

Anecdotally, the Duracell batteries seem to be helping battery life, but I am into them for weeks now, as opposed to months or a year.

Earlier this week, I had to send a DP Pro back for repair, because it would turn off when I was walking around with it in my holster, and would not come back on when I drew the pistol. I am using another Pro as a replacement, and damn if this one started doing the same thing at the match today. Left in, it would,turn off, and when I went to the safety table and drew it, it would not come back on unless I drew it three or four times. On the last stage, the dot went off during a reload, and after unsuccessfully looking for it, I fired a shot which brought it back on.

You could not pay me enough to carry a DP Pro for defensive use.

[flyrodr]

Anecdotally, the Duracell batteries seem to be helping battery life, but I am into them for weeks now, as opposed to months or a year.

You could not pay me enough to carry a DP Pro for defensive use.

Just when I thought there was a glimmer of hope that the DPP with Duracells might be a solution of sorts.

[GJM]

Just when I thought there was a glimmer of hope that the DPP with Duracells might be a solution of sorts.

Flicker of hope better describes my red dot on handgun experiences.

[flyrodr]

Flicker of hope better describes my red dot on handgun experiences.

Probably a result of the differences in our respective eyesight. You see a sharp flicker. I see a blurry glimmer, or, on bad days, two. One would like to feel cause for optimism . . . even if not being able to see it.

[Ballistic_RT]

RMR= Duty/Carry
DPP= Gaming/ range bullshit.

If they could make the DPP base a little thinner and the battery life equal to RMR they would have a winner IMO. Until then the RMR is still the king for serious use.

[Default.mp3]

RMR= Duty/Carry
DPP= Gaming/ range bullshit.

If they could make the DPP base a little thinner and the battery life equal to RMR they would have a winner IMO. Until then the RMR is still the king for serious use.Why would that be? Battery life isn't necessarily an issue for duty, depending on application; change out all your batteries before an op, thus negating any battery life issues (this was something that various units did when their EOTechs). As for profile, I'm not sure why that would be an issue.

[Ballistic_RT]

Why would that be? Battery life isn't necessarily an issue for duty, depending on application; change out all your batteries before an op, thus negating any battery life issues (this was something that various units did when their EOTechs). As for profile, I'm not sure why that would be an issue.

If in a duty roll and you have batteries supplied by higher (much like with eotech) then sure, changing batteries constantly isnt a problem. However what if the allotment of batteries for the week/month is used up? Then what? Sure you could always go out and self purchase. However given the option of hassling with all of that versus only needing a battery change once or maybe twice a year? Seems like a no brainer to me just for decreased hassle alone.

As to the profile thats a personal thing. The closer the optic window can be mounted to the slide the better. This decreases the learning curve going from irons to RDS because the "sight picture" will be closer to what one is used to. Plus a having the ability to mount the optic closer to the top of the slide decreases snag hazards.

[Default.mp3]

If in a duty roll and you have batteries supplied by higher (much like with eotech) then sure, changing batteries constantly isnt a problem. However what if the allotment of batteries for the week/month is used up? Then what? Sure you could always go out and self purchase. However given the option of hassling with all of that versus only needing a battery change once or maybe twice a year? Seems like a no brainer to me just for decreased hassle alone.The flip side to that is when you do have to change the batteries on the RMR, you will have to reconfirm zero, which can be problematic for your average shooter; it's probably cheaper to issue batteries than issue ammo to re-zero on material cost alone, while zeroing can also cost much more time.


As to the profile thats a personal thing. The closer the optic window can be mounted to the slide the better. This decreases the learning curve going from irons to RDS because the "sight picture" will be closer to what one is used to. Plus a having the ability to mount the optic closer to the top of the slide decreases snag hazards.The larger FOV should more than offset the issue of sigh picture, which I'm not even sure is an issue. As for snag hazards, I don't really see that as being much of an issue, considering that the holster should cover the optic anyway.

I'm not saying the RMR is the wrong choice for duty, I'm just saying that it is not the obvious "king for serious use", and that the DPP has many advantages over the RMR for duty use (though I would agree that the RMR is probably far more desirable for concealed carry, for the reasons you mentioned).

[HCM]

RMR= Duty/Carry
DPP= Gaming/ range bullshit.

If they could make the DPP base a little thinner and the battery life equal to RMR they would have a winner IMO. Until then the RMR is still the king for serious use.

There are DP Pro’s in real world use by both .MIL and LE. Suffice to say, George’s experience is a sample on one user. Others have had better results with the DP Pro.

While the RMR may have longer battery life, the DPP’s ability to change the battery without dismounting the optic and re-confirming zero is a significant real world advantage.

The profile or height of the optic being a positive or a negative will depend on your application.

Fact is neither the RMR or the DPP is really “there” yet but they are the two best options right now. We are still one “generation” of optics away from MRDS being truly duty ready for general issue.

[Ballistic_RT]

There are DP Pro’s in real world use by both .MIL and LE. Suffice to say, George’s experience is a sample on one user. Others have had better results with the DP Pro.

While the RMR may have longer battery life, the DPP’s ability to change the battery without dismounting the optic and re-confirming zero is a significant real world advantage.

The profile or height of the optic being a positive or a negative will depend on your application.

Fact is neither the RMR or the DPP is really “there” yet but they are the two best options right now. We are still one “generation” of optics away from MRDS being truly duty ready for general issue.

They are certainly the only two players inthe game.

[Ballistic_RT]

The flip side to that is when you do have to change the batteries on the RMR, you will have to reconfirm zero, which can be problematic for your average shooter; it's probably cheaper to issue batteries than issue ammo to re-zero on material cost alone, while zeroing can also cost much more time.

The larger FOV should more than offset the issue of sigh picture, which I'm not even sure is an issue. As for snag hazards, I don't really see that as being much of an issue, considering that the holster should cover the optic anyway.

I'm not saying the RMR is the wrong choice for duty, I'm just saying that it is not the obvious "king for serious use", and that the DPP has many advantages over the RMR for duty use (though I would agree that the RMR is probably far more desirable for concealed carry, for the reasons you mentioned).

My views and opinions are based solely on CCW with a semi-knowledgable view point of duty experience and needs based on convos held with those who have had experience with both in that situation.

[GJM]

Had to change another DP Pro battery this morning — am averaging two weeks or less on my 34 MOS pistols, even using Duracell batteries.

[Rosco Benson]

I was in the vicinity of a local gun shop last week, so I stopped in. Somehow or another, the guy working the counter and I got into a discussion on slide-mounted red dots. I mentioned that I had owned a legacy Deltapoint, that ate batteries, and that I sent it back to Leupold and they replaced it with a Deltapoint Pro. I said that, since the Pro didn't fit my slide cut-out, it was just sitting on my workbench and that I had no idea if the battery life issue was solved. I went on to say that some very knowledgeable users had reported issues with short battery life in the Pro.

This prompted an old guy (I should talk) who worked there to join the conversation. He adamantly stated that HIS Deltapoint Pro didn't have any battery life issues and that he had had the same battery in it for TWO YEARS. I remarked that this differed from what I had heard and asked if he carried the pistol on which the Pro was mounted. He did NOT. The pistol was in his safe, with the sight turned off and the hood on it.


I didn't bother to point out that his battery life situation really had no relevance to carry usage. Why bother? Having thus demonstrated his superior knowledge of all things having to do with guns, he then showed me THE BEST CARRY PISTOL EVER. It was one of those North American Arms mini-revolvers in .22LR. I must have lost my poker face and did an eye roll or something because he added, with a steely-eyed death-dealing gunfighter tone, "you have to have the SKILL to use it and I DO".


There's a reason I don't go in gun shops very often.


Rosco

[DocGKR]

Deltapoint Pro battery life is measured in weeks when the optic is in daily use--there is no arguing that. RMR battery life is measured in dozens of months or years....

[GJM]

Deltapoint Pro battery life is measured in weeks when the optic is in daily use--there is no arguing that. RMR battery life is measured in dozens of months or years....

This is consistent with my experience with RMR and DP Pro. Based on my new nine DP Pro examples, and the experience of friends, the sensor that sleeps the unit does not reliably wake it up on the draw after the unit is a year or so old. Might take vigorous shaking or turning the battery switch on to wake it up.

[GJM]

Had to change another DP Pro battery this morning — am averaging two weeks or less on my 34 MOS pistols, even using Duracell batteries.

This same DP Pro unit broke this afternoon. Dot went out in recoil. Sending back to Leupold.

[Rex G]

This same DP Pro unit broke this afternoon. Dot went out in recoil. Sending back to Leupold.

Thanks for the update.

[RevolverRob]

GJM can you give us a tally.

Total number of DP Pros you've gone through.
Numerical range of each problem type (dot going out, switching issues, etc).
Total Trips to Leupold
Guns they were on (34 MOS, but also PPQ, if I recall?)

You're really racking up the sample size here and it's making me nervous. I really prefer the DP Pro "Delta" reticle to everything else out there. The dual-illum RMR deltas suck by comparison. Unfortunately, no one else is offering a delta/chevron reticle.

ETA: See you've answered all my Qs in the topic in general discussion

[GJM]

DP Pro update. In early May, Leupold sent me four new replacement optics, and elected to keep my four broken DP Pro units to evaluate.

I had the first of the four new DP Pro units direct milled onto a CZ P09 slide by Primary Machine. So far, it has run without issue. Best estimate is 3,000 rounds. I also had another P09 slide direct milled with a DP Pro from my existing stash, that I peeled off a Glock MOS. Only 300 or so rounds through that one, but so far so good.

[GJM]

Quick update. Since direct milling the DP Pro on multiple CZ P09 and now Glock pistols, I have yet to break a DP Pro since late April/early May, when Leupold sent me four new replacement units. A buddy has taken over for me though, and broken four or so this summer on Glock MOS and Sig 320 X5 pistols. He is now going to try a Romeo 3 optic. Some open shooting friends have replaced their current optics with the Holosun 510C, which has an enormous display, and so far has been holding up.

I put a new Energizer battery in my DP Pro on a G34 last Sunday morning for a match, shot every day this week, and the dot started dimming this afternoon at a match. Replaced it and dot back to normal intensity.

[GJM]

Still have yet to break a direct milled DP Pro, hope to not jinx myself today. Been shooting a Gen 3 and 4 direct milled 34 for the Pro by Primary Machine since late July.

At a five day competition class at TOC now, and this morning my battery was too dim to use for dry fire in the hotel room. I changed it eight days ago before a weekend of matches.

[GJM]

Forgot to specify — it was a Duracell battery.

[GJM]

Battery failed Sept 15, replaced with Duracell.

The replacement battery failed today, Sept 22. I am getting about a week when I am training hard.

[Vista461]

That battery life is horrible. I’d go broke it I used it on a duty gun. :)

[YVK]

I wonder if I broke same DPP nine times, would it count the same as GJM breaking nine DPPs one time each?

My DPP went down again, 3 months after coming back from Leupold. Turned itself off in recoil multiple times, and also did this funny thing changing the dot brightness one click with each shot. Started a bill drill on dim and by shot #3 was full brightness. Probably 1200 rounds at most after it was repaired.

[GJM]

I wonder if I broke same DPP nine times, would it count the same as GJM breaking nine DPPs one time each?

My DPP went down again, 3 months after coming back from Leupold. Turned itself off in recoil multiple times, and also did this funny thing changing the dot brightness one click with each shot. Started a bill drill on dim and by shot #3 was full brightness. Probably 1200 rounds at most after it was repaired.

If you had a 140mm mag in, your brightness would have come back by shot 15 or so! Welcome to the red dot world, where four red dots is two, and two is almost none.

[oregon45]

If you had a 140mm mag in, your brightness would have come back by shot 15 or so! Welcome to the red dot world, where four red dots is two, and two is almost none.

+1. This has been my experience with Trijicon RMR's (type 1 and type 2; direct mount and MOS) and Leupold Deltapoint Pros (MOS only, I haven't direct mounted one). If it isn't dot flicker, it's battery life; if it isn't loss of zero, it's inconsistent adjustments. It's an evolving technology and I'm looking forward to Aimpoint's offering. Perhaps it will be the first of the truly mature micro RDS.

[MVS]

I have probably mentioned it before, but the only problem I have had with my DPP is it shutting off at rest and having to turn it back on manually. As long as I check it during make ready, I am fine.

[GJM]

I have probably mentioned it before, but the only problem I have had with my DPP is it shutting off at rest and having to turn it back on manually. As long as I check it during make ready, I am fine.

Obviously, while this is a workable solution for gaming, it isn’t acceptable for a carry gun.

YVK told me of a discussion yesterday with some CO guys at a match, and their collective DP Pro reliability experience was on par with what I have experienced.

[YVK]

Indeed. After the events that I mentioned above in post #81 I decided to check with my local USPSA crowd during the Saturday match. Every single person has experienced a DPP go down, one man (or he and his brother, they both shoot CO) had three units go back to Leupold twice each for a total count of six returns, although he said that one of his units had now survived 10K rounds. After a fourth person confirmed the same experience as previous three, I stopped asking. Three of those guys are very active M class shooters, the fourth is a very good A class, so these guys do put a decent amount of rounds through their gear.

Since these DPPs need to be dismounted pretty regularly to go back to factory, I wish someone came up with a quick detach mount for these sights so it would be easier to put them on and take off.

[GJM]

Kind of good news, a buddy just told me his Pro just broke, but at 22,000 rounds, which is a longevity record for him.

[HCM]

Ok, so it finally happened. My DPP Pro, mounted on a G17.4 MOS has started to occasionally get a “disappearing dot.”


Mounting seems secure. During longer or quicker strings of fire the dot will disappear for a moment then re-appear.

It started right before the last battery change but it has continued.

Is this common ?

[GJM]

Ok, so it finally happened. My DPP Pro, mounted on a G17.4 MOS has started to occasionally get a “disappearing dot.”


Mounting seems secure. During longer or quicker strings of fire the dot will disappear for a moment then re-appear.

It started right before the last battery change but it has continued.

Is this common ?

The most common issue, before the Pro needs a trip home to Leupold for repair. While complete failure is black and white, an intermittent dot is still worthless to me.

[YVK]

Ok, so it finally happened. My DPP Pro, mounted on a G17.4 MOS has started to occasionally get a “disappearing dot.”


Mounting seems secure. During longer or quicker strings of fire the dot will disappear for a moment then re-appear.

It started right before the last battery change but it has continued.

Is this common ?

Welcome to the club. Mine just got back from its second, in 4 months, repair for the same problem; Leupold turned it around in one day. First time it was two weeks. Be careful taking it off, screws are easy to strip.

If you going to stick with the DPP after they fix yours, get a second and also ask them to send extra screws.

[Tom Duffy]

So, I bought a Leupold LCO for my wife's Ruger PCC. BIG window, sealed emitter, standard Picatinny rail mount. There's a lot to like. I got to thinking that I could easily mount the LCO on a Smith and Wesson revolver and try it out for Steel Challenge. So, I call Leupold.
"Can I use an LCO with a center fire rifle like a 308 or a 12 gauge shotgun?"
"Sure, no problem."
"Can I use an LCO with a 9mm revolver?"
"No, it's never been tested by Leupold."
"But I easily shoot a revolver with one hand; I'd never think of doing that with a rifle or a shotgun."
"You don't understand. It's the gravities with a handgun. Totally different. You should stick with a Delta Point. It been designed to withstand the rigors of use with a handgun."

(So, about now, I thinking this customer service rep has never gotten a call from GJM.)

[GJM]

So, I bought a Leupold LCO for my wife's Ruger PCC. BIG window, sealed emitter, standard Picatinny rail mount. There's a lot to like. I got to thinking that I could easily mount the LCO on a Smith and Wesson revolver and try it out for Steel Challenge. So, I call Leupold.
"Can I use an LCO with a center fire rifle like a 308 or a 12 gauge shotgun?"
"Sure, no problem."
"Can I use an LCO with a 9mm revolver?"
"No, it's never been tested by Leupold."
"But I easily shoot a revolver with one hand; I'd never think of doing that with a rifle or a shotgun."
"You don't understand. It's the gravities with a handgun. Totally different. You should stick with a Delta Point. It been designed to withstand the rigors of use with a handgun."

(So, about now, I thinking this customer service rep has never gotten a call from GJM.)

On the bright side, the LCO is a fantastic PCC optic.

[HCM]

Welcome to the club. Mine just got back from its second, in 4 months, repair for the same problem; Leupold turned it around in one day. First time it was two weeks. Be careful taking it off, screws are easy to strip.

If you going to stick with the DPP after they fix yours, get a second and also ask them to send extra screws.

I have a second but it’s on my Ruger 22/45.

[GJM]

I have a second but it’s on my Ruger 22/45.

As long as you aren’t shooting Stingers, it should be OK. :p

[GJM]

Today, on the sixth stage of a USPSA match, I drew my 19 MOS upper/G45 lower to make ready and the dot didn’t appear. I shook it a few times, and it came alive. Since I replaced the battery last night with a fresh Duracell, I suspected something with the motion sensor. Unfortunately 2/3 of the way through the stage, the dot disappeared. After a few moments of disbelief, I continued the rest of the stage without a dot, and actually shot a bunch of A’s including steel and a clamshell. Maybe a dot is overrated. :(

Further examination shows the optic is TU. So after a summer of no DP Pro problems in direct milled installations, this dot on a MOS slide has broken after three weeks.

[HCM]

As long as you aren’t shooting Stingers, it should be OK. :p

We shoot Aguila “Super Extra” down here in TX. 😎

[Rc217]

Today, on the sixth stage of a USPSA match, I drew my 19 MOS upper/G45 lower to make ready and the dot didn’t appear. I shook it a few times, and it came alive. Since I replaced the battery last night with a fresh Duracell, I suspected something with the motion sensor. Unfortunately 2/3 of the way through the stage, the dot disappeared. After a few moments of disbelief, I continued the rest of the stage without a dot, and actually shot a bunch of A’s including steel and a clamshell. Maybe a dot is overrated. :(

Further examination shows the optic is TU. So after a summer of no DP Pro problems in direct milled installations, this dot on a MOS slide has broken after three weeks.

Does anyone direct mill through the mos cut? I know the AOS can be done through the mos, but I would be interested to know if anyone would be able to direct mill for the rmr through the mos cut. I suspect no.

[GJM]

Who has experience with the AOS installation?

[GJM]

Yesterday, my friend who shoots CO just broke his eighth DP Pro this year. The unit would not wake up when drawing from the holster, during his practice session. He shoots a lot, as in just breaking 80,000 rounds of CO this year, so overall that is about 10,000 rounds between failures.

He also just had a detonation in a 320 X5, where the pistol fired slightly out of battery, his second instance this has happened. Blew the ejector out, hurt his hands, but no other damage. That pistol will head back to Sig.

[Matt O]

...where the pistol fired slightly out of battery, his second instance this has happened.

WTF, that’s crazy. One out of battery detonation would be a serious concern, let alone two. Is he still shooting the sig - I would have dropped that thing like a hot potato by now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[backtrail540]

Shield just released pics of the rms-w, their waterproof version of the rms. It also has a hardened coated lense and reinforced frame according to the post. I think I'll give one a shot when i play the rds game this year.

32881

[YVK]

They announced this sight at last year's Shot. I emailed them mid year about release dates, they didn't reply. Let's be optimistic and hope that this thing shows up in a reasonable time frame.

[backtrail540]

Available for pre order now, though i don't see a planned shipping date.

[GJM]

Today, during a string at a steel match, the direct milled DP Pro on my wife’s G4 34 blinked out, despite a fresh battery from last night. Later, we went back to the range, and it hard failed. Less than 2,000 rounds since new, all on a direct milled slide, and my first DP Pro failure on a direct millled installation.

[BillSWPA]

Today, during a string at a steel match, the direct milled DP Pro on my wife’s G4 34 blinked out, despite a fresh battery from last night. Later, we went back to the range, and it hard failed. Less than 2,000 rounds since new, all on a direct milled slide, and my first DP Pro failure on a direct millled installation.

At what point does the cost-benefit balance stop making sense?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GJM]

At what point does the cost-benefit balance stop making sense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is no obvious alternative yet that works better than the DP Pro for our use. Leupold is good about fixing them, so it is more aggravating than costly. I am looking forward to better optics though!

[GJM]

Friend of mine, serious CO shooter, is prepared with spares.

33512

33513

[David S.]

How are the Romeo1‘s holding up in competition?

I don’t hear much about them either way.

[BillSWPA]

Friend of mine, serious CO shooter, is prepared with spares.

33512

33513

Which is great as long as one has time to sight in between one going down and the next time the pistol with the optic is needed.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[YVK]

At what point does the cost-benefit balance stop making sense?




That's a question to Leupold since they are paying for shipping both ways and repairs, and everyone I know has the same experience as GJM. They're pretty good at it though, my last turnaround was one day, excluding shipping.



Which is great as long as one has time to sight in between one going down and the next time the pistol with the optic is needed.





Most gamers who use this optic have a second gun or at least a second slide with a sighted optic. Most you can lose is one stage. Also, most gamers who use this optic know better to not use it for anything other than games.


How are the Romeo1‘s holding up in competition?

I don’t hear much about them either way.

Not a whole lot of info. Early ones had complaints about them, so much so GJM's favorite optic machine shop is refusing to mill slides for this optic. Some strong SIG shooters I know chose DPP anyway. Even when Romeos ran, a lot of folks felt that the dot was too dim. Now they have this new Romeo 1 6 MOA, apparently it is so bright that it might be too bright. I am thinking of getting one.

[Norville]

That's a question to Leupold since they are paying for shipping both ways and repairs, and everyone I know has the same experience as GJM. They're pretty good at it though, my last turnaround was one day, excluding shipping.




Most gamers who use this optic have a second gun or at least a second slide with a sighted optic. Most you can lose is one stage. Also, most gamers who use this optic know better to not use it for anything other than games.

.

I have 2 DPPs and several RMRs, all have been back for repairs. I so prefer the DPP for gaming that I set up a second slide when Suarez was closing them out this summer. My last issue was a MOS screw failure, good thing I know some machinists.

Aimpoint can’t come soon enough!

[GJM]

My friend, Rich, just broke his second Romeo in a few weeks. I have encouraged him to join here and start contributing to this thread.

[Rich406]

My friend, Rich, just broke his second Romeo in a few weeks. I have encouraged him to join here and start contributing to this thread.


Ya, I dunno if I got 2 bad ones in a row or what. They both had the same problem, wouldn’t hold zero. One at 500ish rounds and the other at 2000.

[GJM]

Today, during a string at a steel match, the direct milled DP Pro on my wife’s G4 34 blinked out, despite a fresh battery from last night. Later, we went back to the range, and it hard failed. Less than 2,000 rounds since new, all on a direct milled slide, and my first DP Pro failure on a direct millled installation.

Replaced this with a brand new, never used Pro. She zeroed it today, and it blinked out twice. Probably about to fail, so likely infant mortality for this new one.

[YVK]

That early in life could be a battery contact. Maybe place a piece of thin tape on the battery and see it repeats; if anything, for diagnostic purposes.

An open / PCC guy who I shoot matches with told me that another optic, I forgot which one but I want to think RTS, had a capacitator added to its design. To continue delivering power during those momentary interruptions of a contact that otherwise would've turned the optic off.
Methinks if we asked Tom Jones and all the engineering brainpower that we have here to rig some of those Deltapoints and Romeos for better durability, we would get much further much faster than leaving it to factory.

[JAD]

That early in life could be a battery contact. Maybe place a piece of thin tape on the battery and see it repeats; if anything, for diagnostic purposes.

An open / PCC guy who I shoot matches with told me that another optic, I forgot which one but I want to think RTS, had a capacitator added to its design. To continue delivering power during those momentary interruptions of a contact that otherwise would've turned the optic off.
Methinks if we asked Tom Jones and all the engineering brainpower that we have here to rig some of those Deltapoints and Romeos for better durability, we would get much further much faster than leaving it to factory.

I haven’t looked at one but the symptoms described have always been consistent with power interruptions associated with poor battery contact and shock and vibe. If I had to guess they put the contact in the same axis as the sight height and therefore didn’t have enough room for compliance and force. If that’s the case the fixes are non trivial because the space has to come from somewhere. Maybe conductive elastomer if the losses don’t kill it. Maybe a mesh, I haven’t followed those in a decade because I was never interested in single contact like one has to a coin cell.

The cap would work for the right period of interrupt but I’d expect it to eat power. It also has to go somewhere.

After 27 years of this I vastly prefer figuring out where to put the power on a TK Type 212.

[SteveB]

Thinking about the DPP; wonder if that flip open battery compartment lid could be replaced with a screw down lid, maybe with a standard Phillips slot? It would obviously be a redesign, but worth it if it reduced these contact failures.

[Rich406]

Thinking about the DPP; wonder if that flip open battery compartment lid could be replaced with a screw down lid, maybe with a standard Phillips slot? It would obviously be a redesign, but worth it if it reduced these contact failures.

I don’t think the problems with the DPP are a result of poor contact with the battery. I’ve tried shimming the battery, dielectric grease and bending the battery contacts, none of which has resulted in any improvement.

From what I’ve seen, most DPP failures I’ve had have been from the circuit board. I’ve actually been able to hear broken parts rattling around inside the case on a couple occasions. Every time I’ve sent a DPP in for warranty they’ve replaced the circuit board.

Hopefully some day soon someone will come out with a gamer optic that is reliable on a slide mount. Until then DPP is the best I’ve found until you get past 10k rounds....

[ranger]

I will say again this reminds me of the early days of USPSA Open when competitors in Open class carried multiple RDS in their shooting bags pre-zeroed. There used to be small vendors that specialized in "hardening" RDS. From this customer demand some tough RDS. "Racing improves the breed". I hope some survivable pistol slide mounted RDS come out of this experience.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I will say again this reminds me of the early days of USPSA Open when competitors in Open class carried multiple RDS in their shooting bags pre-zeroed. There used to be small vendors that specialized in "hardening" RDS. From this customer demand some tough RDS. "Racing improves the breed". I hope some survivable pistol slide mounted RDS come out of this experience.

Next month....

[Bart Carter]

I have a Vortex Venom, 6 MOA on my pistol. I shoot training/practice/schools and matches. Since last May (8 months), I have shot over 10,000 rounds on the same battery. I leave my dot on throughout the match or training day.

So now that I have publicly stated this, either my battery or Venom will fail this Sunday in the middle of the match. :p

[GJM]

I have two VP9 pistols set up with a direct milled Delta Point Pro, and have been worried I need a third. My wife has three Glock 34 pistols, two direct milled and one MOS,with a Pro.

Earlier this week my number two VP9 DP Pro pistol went off once when shooting, and the dot seemed to flicker a bit in intensity, which is a warning sign. I shot that pistol two days and the dot hung in there, but I planned to use my number one VP9 at the match today. This morning, dry firing before the match, my wife reported the dot went out on her Gen 5 34, even though it got a new Duracell 2032 yesterday. We went back and forth, and she decided to try it at the match today, as she wanted to shoot a Gen 5. It would turn off on its own between each stage, but by powering it up again at the beginning of each stage, she got thru, although we are pulling it later today. Using my number one “good Pro” VP9, halfway through the second stage my dot failed, giving me the chance to shoot the stage without a dot, and besides a bunch of C’s I was able to finish, including on a bunch of US poppers, by just relying on index. Here is what it looks like shooting half a stage without a dot.


https://youtu.be/c1Vz5p4TxPI

[GJM]

Given the absence of a better alternative optic today, I am considering a new Delta Point Pro strategy, as suggested by my friend, Talionis. The plan is to keep a match gun with a new Pro on it, and every 3,000 rounds, I will pull that Pro off my wife’s and my match gun, and rotate it through the practice guns. We will zero the new Pro, and shoot 100 rounds to make sure it is working, and then reserve it for just match use. Hopefully this will improve our odds of not getting a Pro failure in a match.

[Dismas316]

Given the absence of a better alternative optic today, I am considering a new Delta Point Pro strategy, as suggested by my friend, Talionis. The plan is to keep a match gun with a new Pro on it, and every 3,000 rounds, I will pull that Pro off my wife’s and my match gun, and rotate it through the practice guns. We will zero the new Pro, and shoot 100 rounds to make sure it is working, and then reserve it for just match use. Hopefully this will improve our odds of not getting a Pro failure in a match.

Thats just sucks to have to go through all that. Hopefully in the near future the reliability will get better.

[JAD]

Thats just sucks to have to go through all that. Hopefully in the near future the reliability will get better.

He does not, in fact, have to.

Suffering can be redemptive. George is making bank.

[GJM]

One of the signs of impending failure of the Pro, is when the dot starts turning off on its own, which leads to constant looking down during a match.

35302

[GJM]

I broke another Delta Point Pro today, the one on my second direct milled VP9. Think this is 15. The two went on a pair of VP9 pistols late November, so about three months each to TU.

[olstyn]

I broke another Delta Point Pro today, the one on my second direct milled VP9. Think this is 15. The two went on a pair of VP9 pistols late November, so about three months each to TU.

Your experience suggests to me that all of the jokes about Carry Optics being "welfare Open" are in fact ironically backwards, and Open is in fact cheaper in the long run due to the fact that the non-reciprocating optics don't get chewed up and spit out every few months.

[GJM]

Your experience suggests to me that all of the jokes about Carry Optics being "welfare Open" are in fact ironically backwards, and Open is in fact cheaper in the long run due to the fact that the non-reciprocating optics don't get chewed up and spit out every few months.

Yes, but the timmie creds you maintain from shooting a carry gun are priceless.

Had a major fright removing the bad Pro tonight, when one screw got stripped. Didn’t have time for professional help as my wife and I are at a JJ class this weekend. Got the drill out, used progressively larger bits, until I could jam a T20 bit in and free the screw. I call this a major division win.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I broke another Delta Point Pro today, the one on my second direct milled VP9. Think this is 15. The two went on a pair of VP9 pistols late November, so about three months each to TU.

GJM is now a Triple Ace in DP "kills"! He's going to paint the victory symbols on his vehicle's fenders!

[ranger]

Your experience suggests to me that all of the jokes about Carry Optics being "welfare Open" are in fact ironically backwards, and Open is in fact cheaper in the long run due to the fact that the non-reciprocating optics don't get chewed up and spit out every few months.

I remember when Open class was eating up optics

[EVP]

I broke another Delta Point Pro today, the one on my second direct milled VP9. Think this is 15. The two went on a pair of VP9 pistols late November, so about three months each to TU.


GJM hypothetical type question: does having a DP pro go down in the middle of a match hurt your scores more then the hit on performance from a more robust optic like a rmr and(maybe a ACRO down the road)?

[GJM]

GJM hypothetical type question: does having a DP pro go down in the middle of a match hurt your scores more then the hit on performance from a more robust optic like a rmr and(maybe a ACRO down the road)?

If you look at the statistics from the CO Nationals, where a whopping five percent of competitors used an RMR, I think the answer is no on an RMR for use in competition.

[EVP]

If you look at the statistics from the CO Nationals, where a whopping five percent of competitors used an RMR, I think the answer is no on an RMR for use in competition.

While those statistics are revealing in showing the vast preference of the Dp pro more favord then the RMR at the CO nationals level, I was more interested with your experience running the DP pro and if your scores would be effected by going with a more robust optic.

[GJM]

While those statistics are revealing in showing the vast preference of the Dp pro more favord then the RMR at the CO nationals level, I was more interested with your experience running the DP pro and if your scores would be effected by going with a more robust optic.

If you are asking me why I shoot a Pro and not an RMR in competition, the reason is I would rather take the chance of hurting one stage every few months, than take the penalty every stage with the reduced shootability of the RMR. Going to a dedicated match pistol and a new DP Pro every 3,000 rounds, I am optimistic I will not have match problems, but I am really hoping the Acro is the solution. I was just shooting the Pro in the rain, and got a split dot that caused me to shoot the wrong red dot and shank a shot six inches right from ten yards.

I carry a RMR right now when I EDC a red dot, so I get their reliability and good battery life.

[JodyH]

Match day is already stressful the majority of the time for me because I am usually the MD/RO/SO, sanitation engineer and head babysitter.
The last thing I want to stress over is whether my gun and gear will work for the 30 seconds of blissful shooting time I get per hour.

[GJM]

Match day is already stressful the majority of the time for me because I am usually the MD/RO/SO, sanitation engineer and head babysitter.
The last thing I want to stress over is whether my gun and gear will work for the 30 seconds of blissful shooting time I get per hour.

My wife and I have divided up the work. She worries about keeping the dog comfortable, and having Cliff bars and full Yetis with drink. I worry about her and my guns.

[JodyH]

My wife and I have divided up the work. She worries about keeping the dog comfortable, and having Cliff bars and full Yetis with drink. I worry about her and my guns.
Unfortunately we divide up the work as well.
I RO the squad and she scores (and yells at the slackers who aren't resetting and taping).
In our "spare time" we actually shoot the stage.
Aint nobody got time for tinkering with guns and gear.

I need to go shoot somewhere completely out of my sphere because even when I drive 150 miles away to El Paso someone recognizes me and I end up RO'ing at their match.
It must be nice to sit in the shade, drink a cold beverage, pet a dog, gossip and occasionally wander out and tape a hole or two in between shooting.
I hear Arizona is nice this time of year...

[GJM]

I need to go shoot somewhere completely out of my sphere because even when I drive 150 miles away to El Paso someone recognizes me and I end up RO'ing at their match.
It must be nice to sit in the shade, drink a cold beverage, pet a dog, gossip and occasionally wander out and tape a hole or two in between shooting.
I hear Arizona is nice this time of year...

Only people who get away with that are Open shooters.

[Coyotesfan97]

Unfortunately we divide up the work as well.
I RO the squad and she scores (and yells at the slackers who aren't resetting and taping).
In our "spare time" we actually shoot the stage.
Aint nobody got time for tinkering with guns and gear.

I need to go shoot somewhere completely out of my sphere because even when I drive 150 miles away to El Paso someone recognizes me and I end up RO'ing at their match.
It must be nice to sit in the shade, drink a cold beverage, pet a dog, gossip and occasionally wander out and tape a hole or two in between shooting.
I hear Arizona is nice this time of year...

Sorry to burst your bubble. It’s the coldest February in record. The snow level is down to 3000 feet today. It was snowing in north Scottsdale, Carefree,and Cave Creek. It’s 37 degrees in the East Valley and its a 70-100% chance of rain until 0500. We’re five degrees away from snow here. I didn’t see the Superstitions all day due to cloud cover.

There was 31.5” of snow in Flagstaff today breaking a record from 1915 and it’s probably still snowing. Prescott has a foot of snow before 1300. There saying it’s severe winter weather in Northern Arizona. I heard it was blizzard conditions in some areas.

On a positive note my Delta is still working.

[JodyH]

Snow and cold keeps out the weak.
Harder to Instagram pose in your lycra "team shirt" when the wind chill is flirting with negatives.
My kind of match!

My three dual-illuminated RMR's have never stopped working.

[GJM]

My wife broke two DP Pros today, bringing us to 17. Both on MOS G5 34 pistols. I really do believe MOS is harder on optics than direct milled.

[GJM]

Broke another Pro today, number 18. Same pattern as the others, where the dot started going off during the practice session, then would be gone when I drew the pistol. This one was on my practice VP9, and lasted through the JJ class a week plus of practice and the moving paper class.

I am speaking with a very helpful person at Leupold, who is interested in getting to the bottom of my issues. Just sent them five broken ones, and got this care package from them today.

35892

[Sigfan26]

Broke another Pro today, number 18. Same pattern as the others, where the dot started going off during the practice session, then would be gone when I drew the pistol. This one was on my practice VP9, and lasted through the JJ class a week plus of practice and the moving paper class.

I am speaking with a very helpful person at Leupold, who is interested in getting to the bottom of my issues. Just sent them five broken ones, and got this care package from them today.

35892

You just keep going back for more...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dismas316]

Broke another Pro today, number 18. Same pattern as the others, where the dot started going off during the practice session, then would be gone when I drew the pistol. This one was on my practice VP9, and lasted through the JJ class a week plus of practice and the moving paper class.

I am speaking with a very helpful person at Leupold, who is interested in getting to the bottom of my issues. Just sent them five broken ones, and got this care package from them today.

35892

That’s unbelievable, you have way more patience than I do. While that’s a nice gesture from them, seems to me they owe you about 12 more. Hopefully they figure it out, then they should give you a 10% royalty for the new ones they sell that work.

[feudist]

Is there no other sight that will suit you? Are you tilting at windmills? Buy a majority share of Leupold?

[GJM]

Is there no other sight that will suit you? Are you tilting at windmills? Buy a majority share of Leupold?

My wife and I have a significant number of pistols direct milled for the DP Pro, and as of today, I am aware of no better alternative for competition use.

[feudist]

My wife and I have a significant number of pistols direct milled for the DP Pro, and as of today, I am aware of no better alternative for competition use.

Field of view?

[flyrodr]

Dang George, you're probably going to get some "special mention" in Leupold's next financial statement.;)

[GJM]

I am optimistic that Leupold can fix this, now that they are focusing on it.

[GJM]

So, my new strategy is to keep a dedicated match VP9, wth a new DP Pro, and rotate it out at 3,000 rounds over to a practice gun. Similar plan with my wife with a dedicated G34.

On the first stage of the match today, when I went to make ready I noted my dot was off, even though I recalled turning the dot on at the safety table. I turned the dot on, made ready, and when I drew the pistol, the dot was gone. I shot a four target array with no dot, moved to my next shooting position, and still with no dot and about 40 more rounds to shoot, I reached up turned it on again, and had a dot for the rest of the stage.

I am pretty close to the breaking point, pending updates from Leupold. When I got home, I grabbed my VP9 with the Holosun 507, and removed the BUIS which obscure some of the display, and moved it to primary for now. I have a match Sunday, and plan to shoot the Holosun, as does my wife with her G34 with the Holosun.

[GJM]

Since this thread is where I log DP Pro issues, this is the 19th Pro broken between my wife and I in the last 18 months.

[Dismas316]

So, my new strategy is to keep a dedicated match VP9, wth a new DP Pro, and rotate it out at 3,000 rounds over to a practice gun. Similar plan with my wife with a dedicated G34.

On the first stage of the match today, when I went to make ready I noted my dot was off, even though I recalled turning the dot on at the safety table. I turned the dot on, made ready, and when I drew the pistol, the dot was gone. I shot a four target array with no dot, moved to my next shooting position, and still with no dot and about 40 more rounds to shoot, I reached up turned it on again, and had a dot for the rest of the stage.

I am pretty close to the breaking point, pending updates from Leupold. When I got home, I grabbed my VP9 with the Holosun 507, and removed the BUIS which obscure some of the display, and moved it to primary for now. I have a match Sunday, and plan to shoot the Holosun, as does my wife with her G34 with the Holosun.

Wow, that just sucks. Hate to hear that. Are you able to shoot without a dot? It’s bizarre that you seem to have the level of problems you do with the DPP. I would have probably given up on them a long time ago. Good luck tomorrow.

[GJM]

Wow, that just sucks. Hate to hear that. Are you able to shoot without a dot? It’s bizarre that you seem to have the level of problems you do with the DPP. I would have probably given up on them a long time ago. Good luck tomorrow.

By necessity, I have learned to shoot without a dot or BUIS, just using index to finish a stage. Think I posted a video of such a few pages back.

[Spartan1980]

I'm very curious to hear how it goes with the Holosun. I have a buddy that sells them and he's high enough on them that he's running them on his open and PCC guns so I hope to have a couple of good sources for feedback.

[GJM]

I'm very curious to hear how it goes with the Holosun. I have a buddy that sells them and he's high enough on them that he's running them on his open and PCC guns so I hope to have a couple of good sources for feedback.

The Holosun 510C is the most common PCC optic around here.

[Dismas316]

I have the 510c on my PCC and like it. Although truth be told I unfortunately don’t shoot my PCC all the often. It was a little weird at first for me to get used to the circular dot. I like the red/green option as well. Curious as to GJM’s impression on his pistol today as well.

[GJM]

My wife and I ran a Holosun today. Display is not as nice as a DP Pro, but definitely far more usable than a RMR. What was best about the Holosun was my blood pressure was lower not worrying whether my dot would break.

Talked to a talented CO shooter, who uses a G5 34 MOS and Pro, and he broke five last year in 40,000 rounds of live fire. Said they held up fine to dry fire. :p

He felt five Pros was the minimum number of them for him to keep his guns up while broken ones go back and forth for repair.

[GJM]

Crap, my Holosun 507 just broke while dry firing!

[feudist]

Crap, my Holosun 507 just broke while dry firing!

:mad:

[Duelist]

Crap, my Holosun 507 just broke while dry firing!

I think you have the worst luck on the planet with pistol optics.

And thank you for saving me so much money and aggravation.

[cornstalker]

Crap, my Holosun 507 just broke while dry firing!

What happened? Fell apart, or lights out?

[GJM]

It is possible mine is not representative, and my wife’s is still running strong after a week! Dot started dimming and switching between single dot and big circle.

[GJM]

Based on multiple discussions with Leupold, I am very optimistic that failure modes have been identified and the optic will be greatly improved!

[Duelist]

Based on multiple discussions with Leupold, I am very optimistic that failure modes have been identified and the optic will be greatly improved!

THe last video you posted, and some issues I had seeing my front sight on my last range day, has me thinking I’m going to get one. Maybe. Eventually.

WHo am I kidding? It’ll be after I start working full time again, but probably by August.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

Based on multiple discussions with Leupold, I am very optimistic that failure modes have been identified and the optic will be greatly improved!

George to be clear you’re referring to the DP Pro’s you own that have gone back & forth to Leupold for repairs & not a new, soon to be released DPP, correct?

[GJM]

George to be clear you’re referring to the DP Pro’s you own that have gone back & forth to Leupold for repairs & not a new, soon to be released DPP, correct?

I am discussing reliability improvements to the existing DP Pro product.

[Norville]

Crap, my Holosun 507 just broke while dry firing!

Time to cancel my back order...

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I am discussing reliability improvements to the existing DP Pro product.

Thx for the update, waiting for the Acro to drop but also may pick up a DPP for another game gun, hence my question.

[scw2]

I am discussing reliability improvements to the existing DP Pro product.

Let me know when it's safe to get on the red dot/DPP bandwagon! Going to take the plunge and get a glock MOS/milled this year.

[RevolverRob]

Based on multiple discussions with Leupold, I am very optimistic that failure modes have been identified and the optic will be greatly improved!

I'm stoked to hear this, George.

I'd love to be able to actually use a MRDS that has a proper delta reticle, as opposed to a dual-illumination RMR.

[Rc217]

I am discussing reliability improvements to the existing DP Pro product.

Is this going to be a formal upgrade like the Type 2 RMR (internal upgrade to essentially the same product) or would it just be improved reliability on models purchased after a certain date? Thanks

[BigT]

My first DPP had the motion sensor quit between 8-9000 rounds.

I think the next one is going at under 3000. Had three occasions over the weekend when the optic was off unexpectedly. I thought I noticed a similar pattern with the first one for a little while before the first ones motion sensor failed completely.

[GJM]

My first DPP had the motion sensor quit between 8-9000 rounds.

I think the next one is going at under 3000. Had three occasions over the weekend when the optic was off unexpectedly. I thought I noticed a similar pattern with the first one for a little while before the first ones motion sensor failed completely.

While it might be OK to use for practice, based on experience, I would not rely on this one Pro for competition, as the unit is “fixin to fail.”

There are two main issues with the Pro, a motion detector design that fails, and a propensity of the “+” that locates the battery, migrating such that the contact with the battery becomes intermittent, and then when it moves enough, hard fails. I am expecting something very soon that addresses both issues.

Here is a picture of the “+” showing very slight migration. We have started “pre-flighting” our Pros, checking to see that the + is in the proper position.

36577

[BigT]

While it might be OK to use for practice, based on experience, I would not rely on this one Pro for competition, as the unit is “fixin to fail.”

There are two main issues with the Pro, a motion detector design that fails, and a propensity of the “+” that locates the battery, migrating such that the contact with the battery becomes intermittent, and then when it moves enough, hard fails. I am expecting something very soon that addresses both issues.

Here is a picture of the “+” showing very slight migration. We have started “pre-flighting” our Pros, checking to see that the + is in the proper position.

36577

Thanks will check my other one for migration.

This one is also going back for warranty with agents tomorrow, Leupold service is really good here only down side is the 3+ months turn around for the replacement.

[GJM]

Just back from the range, and on “post flight,” this is what I found.

36798

[GJM]

I broke another Pro today at a match. While that was the bad news, the good news this was not the new “ruggedized” prototype that is on the brown truck today, it was just a Steel Challenge match so it only wrecked one string, and the failure was the “standard” where the + slips down.

37676

I am hoping the prototype with the changes, which are a new motion detector and the + mounted differently, fix the reliability issues with the Pro.

[miller_man]

You and 3/4 folks shooting carry optics.

[GJM]

Someone I know showed up at our last USPSA match with a new 320 X5 and a Romeo 1, announcing his plan to shoot it “hard” in CO this year. I asked how many slides and optics he had, and he replied “just one” with a puzzled look. I just laughed.

[feudist]

Someone I know showed up at our last USPSA match with a new 320 X5 and a Romeo 1, announcing his plan to shoot it “hard” in CO this year. I asked how many slides and optics he had, and he replied “just one” with a puzzled look. I just laughed.

The bitter voice of experience:cool:

[GJM]

The bitter voice of experience:cool:

Honest to god, 90 percent of the time I spend discussing hardware with Carry Optics friends is about red dots.

[BigT]

Every so often i wonder why I keep accumulating more and more red dots. Then I remember...

[olstyn]

The bitter voice of experience:cool:

Or just the bitter voice of anyone who's been reading this thread. I've had basically that same conversation, and I don't even own a dot sight, let alone shoot CO. I'm not even going to consider shooting that division, no matter how fun it looks, until GJM declares *some* optic to be good to go because my budget is a lot tighter than his. I can't afford to buy 5+ copies of the same optic and always be sending some number of them back to the manufacturer. :(

BTW, thanks for your beta-testing efforts with Leupold, GJM, and for this thread. I think you're saving lots of people a lot of money and frustration.

[Norville]

Thanks will check my other one for migration.

This one is also going back for warranty with agents tomorrow, Leupold service is really good here only down side is the 3+ months turn around for the replacement.

I just sent one back here in the USA prior to seeing the pictures so I didn’t check to see if this was the failure mode, but the intermittent dot seems to indicate that it was.

Quoted a 36 day turnaround time.

Good thing I have spares.

[GJM]

I just hit 2,750 rounds on the prototype ruggedized Pro and it is looking good.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I just hit 2,750 rounds on the prototype ruggedized Pro and it is looking good.

First the ACRO is starting to hit the streets, you're working w/ Leupold to upgrade/ruggedize the DPP & Trij. is hopefully getting closer to releasing the SRO, it does indeed seem that things are looking good IMO.

[GJM]

Just hit 4,750 rounds on the prototype and it still going strong.

[Mirolynmonbro]

I saw a DPP go down in a class this weekend with an approximate 500 round count. Directly milled to a slide

I was interested in that P09 slide but after this weekend I'm having 2nd thoughts [emoji21]

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[GJM]

5,500 rounds on the prototype and the Pro is still going strong. My wife broke an unmodified one today — I think that is 25. It broke in the normal way.

38476

[GJM]

5,800 on the prototype, all still good.

Unfortunately, I broke an unmodified one on a P10F. Think this is number 26.

38494

After the practice, my wife found this on her number 3 G34 — in the process of failing.

38495

[olstyn]

5,800 on the prototype, all still good.

Has Leupold given you any indication of how many rounds they'd like to see go through it before they'll look at rolling the prototype changes into regular production?

[GJM]

Has Leupold given you any indication of how many rounds they'd like to see go through it before they'll look at rolling the prototype changes into regular production?

I think they are there now, and it is a matter of getting the changes implemented. The right people are working on this.

[feudist]

I think they are there now, and it is a matter of getting the changes implemented. The right people are working on this.

Top men?

[psalms144.1]

Top men?TOP. Men...

[HCM]

Top men?


TOP. Men...


https://youtu.be/Fdjf4lMmiiI

[couchpotato013]

5,800 on the prototype, all still good.

Unfortunately, I broke an unmodified one on a P10F. Think this is number 26.

38494

After the practice, my wife found this on her number 3 G34 — in the process of failing.

38495

If you were to push on the + thing (negative battery terminal) could you move it around? Will it fall out if you flipped the deltapoint upside down? If it does move and can be removed from the unit, can you provide close up pictures of the ends of the +?

I'm a new owner of a deltapoint pro and haven't examined the internals yet, but in electronics manufacturing we test solder connections. I'm assuming the solder connections on the battery terminal are breaking, but not sure of how. It could be melting by heat, or fracturing through vibration (the slide moving back and forth). If fractured, it would remain loose. If by heat, it could seem to rotate or slightly move and then resolidify so it won't move when you push on it.

[GJM]

I have received a few questions about the DP Pro, and wanted to share some of what I have learned about how the optic works. First, the “+” that locates the battery is not soldered, it needs to float by design. What keeps it anchored is a clear decal that covers the + and keeps its feet contacting on the copper colored area.

Leupold also uses a date code as per of the serial number, with the last two letters indicating date of manufacture. I believe AF is 2018 manufacture, but need to confirm.

More later.

[ssb]

I have received a few questions about the DP Pro, and wanted to share some of what I have learned about how the optic works. First, the “+” that locates the battery is not soldered, it needs to float by design. What keeps it anchored is a clear decal that covers the + and keeps its feet contacting on the copper colored area.

Leupold also uses a date code as per of the serial number, with the last two letters indicating date of manufacture. I believe AF is 2018 manufacture, but need to confirm.

More later.

Has Leupold indicated when these changes are going to roll out? And how would we know whether our unit has the upgraded electronics? Lastly, owing to the thread title, have you noticed any improvement in battery life?

[GJM]

Has Leupold indicated when these changes are going to roll out? And how would we know whether our unit has the upgraded electronics? Lastly, owing to the thread title, have you noticed any improvement in battery life?

TBD on changes. My job is the easy part — try to break them.

I have seen significant variability by unit in battery life — with the extremes of one day to well over a year.

[HCM]

I have received a few questions about the DP Pro, and wanted to share some of what I have learned about how the optic works. First, the “+” that locates the battery is not soldered, it needs to float by design. What keeps it anchored is a clear decal that covers the + and keeps its feet contacting on the copper colored area.

Leupold also uses a date code as per of the serial number, with the last two letters indicating date of manufacture. I believe AF is 2018 manufacture, but need to confirm.

More later.

The one I just sent back is an AB prefix.

[GJM]

The one I just sent back is an AB prefix.


How long have you had it, about how many rounds, and what was the failure mode?

[Rc217]

Mine has an AD suffix, about 2.5k rounds, no failures.

[Vista461]

TBD on changes. My job is the easy part — try to break them.

I have seen significant variability by unit in battery life — with the extremes of one day to well over a year.

Holy cats that’s a big swing on battery life.

[couchpotato013]

I just purchased mine last week from a Guns2Ammo reddit deal, with a AF date code.

I see the clear decal mentioned, and haven't attempted to peel it to see how the battery terminal is secured. I'll try baking it and see what happens to the decal, probably loosen the adhesive. The deltapoint pro spec sheet says:
• Operating Temperature Range: -20°F to +120°F (-29°C to +49°C)
• Storage Temperature Range: -40˚F to +160˚F (-40˚C to +71˚C)

I assume competitive shooters can get their slides hot enough to boil water? I can do heat related testing, but don't have easy access to a vibration tester. Someone with a paint shaker could do that though, but I don't think it's a vibration issue.

https://www.leupold.com/leupold-core/core-knowledge/faqs#WhenWasMyScopeManufactured
AB 2015
AC 2016
AD 2017
AE 2018
AF 2019

[HCM]

How long have you had it, about how many rounds, and what was the failure mode?

Two years on a 17MOS. 3k-ish live fire plus it was my regular dry fire gun.

The dot started disappearing under recoil then re-appearing 10-20 seconds later.

[couchpotato013]

5,500 rounds on the prototype and the Pro is still going strong. My wife broke an unmodified one today — I think that is 25. It broke in the normal way.

38476
I see that the o-shaped clear decal is still centered on the + shaped negative battery terminal, but the o-shaped clear decal is no longer centered around the gold/copper circle. Was the clear decal adhesive still working? Could you push it around for this specific failure?


5,800 on the prototype, all still good.

Unfortunately, I broke an unmodified one on a P10F. Think this is number 26.

38494

After the practice, my wife found this on her number 3 G34 — in the process of failing.

38495
Zooming in on both images it looks like the clear decal has stayed in place and looks undamaged, but the + negative battery terminal has started slipping rearward. The top image of this quote shows that the + punctured through it. All the images you've posted of the + failing shows it moving rearward, caused by movement of the slide.

From the general electronics testing that I've seen, manufacturers may test hot/cold like the operating temperatures found in their manual, and/or vibration. I've yet to see thermal testing and vibration testing at the same time, usually it is one after the other.

[HCM]

The one I just sent back is an AB prefix.


How long have you had it, about how many rounds, and what was the failure mode?


Two years on a 17MOS. 3k-ish live fire plus it was my regular dry fire gun.

The dot started disappearing under recoil then re-appearing 10-20 seconds later.

The back up DPP I just installed is an AD so from 2017 vs 2015.

[GJM]

I have had poor reliability with a number of AF units, but that should be corrected quickly. The decal is what is keeping the “+” located, so watch it closely and look for shifting of the +.

[couchpotato013]

Took some measurements with my unit. Again it's new from last week, never fired. Hooked it up to a DC Power Supply and measured the current draw. The battery that came with my deltapoint pro is a Panasonic and measured 3.011V at the time of testing (used it in the deltapoint for a week and left it on my nightstand), so I set the power supply to 3.011V as well.

Minimum brightness .13mA
Maximum brightness .48mA

Below is the always on, as in no 5 minute inactivity shutoff, calculated battery life based on the manufactuer's mAh rating using this calculator: https://oregonembedded.com/batterycalc.htm

Panasonic 225mAh https://b2b-api.panasonic.eu/file_stream/pids/fileversion/3627
Minimum brightness 61.3 days
Maximum brightness 16.6 days

Energizer 235 mAh http://data.energizer.com/pdfs/cr2032.pdf
Minimum brightness 64.02 days
Maximum brightness 17.34 days

The spec sheets of both Panasonic and Energizer say the cutoff (dead) voltage is 2.0V for the battery. Using a DC power supply I was able to get the voltage down to 1.744V before the laser was getting too dim for me to see, but I didn't pay attention to what the current was at that time. That means as long as the battery is able to supply any bit of power, the unit will turn on.

I'm not sure how accurate Oregon Embedded's calculator is, but it seems to line up with the 2+ weeks being seen for active users.

The clear decal covering the + shaped negative battery terminal does not glow under UV light, so there's no easier way of seeing it. I put the deltapoint pro, upside down and slanted so that any adhesive failure would cause the + to drop or move towards the back, in an oven at +50C without a battery inside. After about an hour I took it out and didn't notice anything weird. Ran it up to +70C for less than 2 hours, and then -40C for less than 2 hours. The clear decal and + shaped negative battery terminal is still in place. The temperatures used are what Leupold calls out on their spec sheet, but I'm pretty sure a pistol slide gets much hotter. I'm not sure if this electronics oven can go past 100C as we never test anything that high, and I don't have a discarded food oven. Anyone with a hot plate for casting or a toaster oven for cerakote can try that on theirs.

[GJM]

I am well over 7,000 rounds on the ruggedized prototype and it is running strong. I am reasonably confident that Leupold has the fixes down. There are two more test units on the way to me.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I am well over 7,000 rounds on the ruggedized prototype and it is running strong. I am reasonably confident that Leupold has the fixes down. There are two more test units on the way to me.

Good to hear George, also digging the recent feedback you just posted w/ the SRO.

[GJM]

I am over 8,000 trouble free rounds with the ruggedized DP Pro. Two more arrived today to add to the test fleet.

[Olim9]

I am over 8,000 trouble free rounds with the ruggedized DP Pro. Two more arrived today to add to the test fleet.

I’m curious, just how many rounds do you roughly shoot in a year?

[GJM]

I’m curious, just how many rounds do you roughly shoot in a year?

As many as my schedule and arms allow!

[Chompion]

I am over 8,000 trouble free rounds with the ruggedized DP Pro. Two more arrived today to add to the test fleet.

If I send in a dp pro for repair, will they send my dp pro back with the new version? My battery contact point is shifting back like the ones in this thread

[GJM]

If I send in a dp pro for repair, will they send my dp pro back with the new version? My battery contact point is shifting back like the ones in this thread

Not sure where they are in rolling out changes that address this issue.

My prototype continues to go strong, and my wife and I now have two more of them on our pistols in testing. Yesterday, my wife broke an older DP Pro in a match — think this is number 31.

[Norville]

If I send in a dp pro for repair, will they send my dp pro back with the new version? My battery contact point is shifting back like the ones in this thread

I just got one back, same as before , except it works now. At least for a while.

[ffhounddog]

So is this going to be a viable option now to the RMR?

I am interested but at the same time leery, because I want at least a year of battery life if possible and something that will not break in 6 months.

[GJM]

So is this going to be a viable option now to the RMR?

I am interested but at the same time leery, because I want at least a year of battery life if possible and something that will not break in 6 months.

I think the RMR is a better carry optic because of size, battery life and back up iron integration. The Pro is a better gaming optic.

[HCM]

The one I just sent back is an AB prefix.

Just got it back today. Slip in the box says “replaced illuminated control assembly”

I guess we shall see.

[Bart Carter]

Any updates on the ruggedized version? Is it for sale now? Reason to buy over a Trijicon SRO?

[boatswain]

I'd love to see an update too! Shot a DP Pro for the first time today, was about to buy one but this thread has me wondering...

[boatswain]

I was told last night by a fairly prominent competitive shooter who uses a Deltapoint Pro that Leupold is now shipping a modified version.

True or false? He wasn't aware of this forum.

[S391]

I am over 8,000 trouble free rounds with the ruggedized DP Pro. Two more arrived today to add to the test fleet.

Any chance of posting some pics so we can see what changes they made?

[Bart Carter]

So now, much later, any updates on the ruggedized version? Is it for sale now?

[GJM]

So now, much later, any updates on the ruggedized version? Is it for sale now?

I don’t know.

[172driver]

Any news on the newer version of the DPP?

[GJM]

“Soon”

[S391]

“Soon”

Are they going to announce something at the NRA convention?

[patriot_man]

Does this new ruggedized DPP have night vision settings?

[GJM]

My understanding is that all current manufacture Pros, and repaired units, will have the new ruggedized circuit board.

[S391]

Someone on another site posted that he just got his pro back from Leupold and had this pic. Is this what you’re talking about?

https://i.postimg.cc/kgxSTcDX/new-DPP-design.jpg

[GJM]

Yes, that is the new board.

[Coyotesfan97]

My agency has deauthorized DPPs after the rangemaster’s died and I think one of the FIs. If you have one it’s grandfathered in. I don’t know if they’ll get come back with the new circuit board. Knock on wood mines still plugging along.

[GJM]

My agency has deauthorized DPPs after the rangemaster’s died and I think one of the FIs. If you have one it’s grandfathered in. I don’t know if they’ll get come back with the new circuit board. Knock on wood mines still plugging along.

I was looking for the emoji for a “shocked face.”

[cpd2110]

https://www.leupold.com/leupold-core/core-insider/news/leupold-adds-night-vision-optimized-model-to-popular-deltapoint-pro-line

Leupold Adds Night Vision Optimized Model to Popular DeltaPoint Pro Line

May 17, 2020
Leupold & Stevens, Inc., provider of the world’s most rugged, lightweight, and clear riflescopes and reflex sights, is pleased to announce that its popular DeltaPoint Pro reflex sight line is expanding, with the addition of two new models optimized for use with advancing night vision technologies.

Available in both a Matte and Flat Dark Earth (FDE) finish, the DeltaPoint Pro Night Vision (NV) supports modern night vision devices by utilizing two new illumination settings that fine tune the red dot to match the sensitivity of your equipment. While the original DeltaPoint Pro works great with legacy night vision devices, the DP Pro NV adds flexibility for all systems including the most advanced technologies. Ten brightness settings are featured, whereas the standard DP Pro features eight. The DP Pro NV’s two lowest brightness settings and highest singular brightness setting can be fine-tuned incrementally.

The result is that shooters using night vision optics in combination with the DeltaPoint Pro NV can fine tune the intensity of levels 1 and 2 to optimize performance. The brightest setting, level 10, can be adjusted to best match even the brightest shooting conditions. When needed, it’s easy to reset the DP Pro NV to factory default settings

“Shooters asked for an adaptable red dot sight that could support modern white phosphorous night vision equipment, we delivered that with the DeltaPoint Pro NV,” said Tim Lesser, Vice President of Product Development for Leupold & Stevens, Inc. “The DP Pro is the fastest, toughest red dot on the market, and the original model was compatible with some night vision configurations – but not all of them. The new NV model ensures that you’ll be able to call on the DeltaPoint’s unparalleled performance no matter what gear you’re running.”

The DeltaPoint Pro NV is designed for those who don’t just demand speed, but depend on it. It delivers true-to-life color consistency, and premium edge-to-edge lens clarity with Leupold’s Twilight Max Red Dot System. Its design creates an incredible field-of-view that opens up your peripherals and allows you to get on target fast. It also disperses recoil energy for unrivaled durability with an ultra-lightweight construction.

Like all Leupold red dot sights, the DeltaPoint Pro NV is supported by the company’s battery-saving Motion Sensor Technology (MST), which puts the sight into a battery-saving standby mode after five minutes of inactivity. When the MST detects motion, it instantly activates the sight so it’s ready when you are. A manual mode allows the sight to shut off when not in use.

Waterproof, fogproof, and guaranteed to perform life, the DeltaPoint Pro NV is designed, machined, and assembled in Leupold’s Beaverton, Ore., factory.

[GJM]

In their new product release, Leupold announced a six moa Pro. I have had AP one for about a year, and explained how action shooters gravitate towards larger dots.

[Caballoflaco]

In their new product release, Leupold announced a six moa Pro. I have had AP one for about a year, and explained how action shooters gravitate towards larger dots.

GJM; bringing the people what they want.

[foxj66]

In their new product release, Leupold announced a six moa Pro. I have had AP one for about a year, and explained how action shooters gravitate towards larger dots.

As soon as I saw that I listed all of my 2.5s for sale and will be ordering 3 of the new ones as soon as they start showing in stock.

[Archer1440]

Interesting, considering that a number of high profile RDS instructors are generally moving to smaller MOA solutions over time.

No doubt that a bigger dot has popularity in competition conditions, but I personally find that 1-3.5 MOA sights are better for all-round and carry use. My 6 MOA sights are sitting idle, these days.

Leupold does have a killer deal available to industry insiders and NRA instructors but, that button system is just a non starter for me, personally.

[GJM]

Interesting, considering that a number of high profile RDS instructors are generally moving to smaller MOA solutions over time.

No doubt that a bigger dot has popularity in competition conditions, but I personally find that 1-3.5 MOA sights are better for all-round and carry use. My 6 MOA sights are sitting idle, these days.

Leupold does have a killer deal available to industry insiders and NRA instructors but, that button system is just a non starter for me, personally.

Given that the larger dots are pretty much the school solution for competition, what is it about carry use that would make a smaller dot preferable?

[GJM]

Given that the larger dots are pretty much the school solution for competition, what is it about carry use that would make a smaller dot preferable?

I think this is worth its own thread, as it is an interesting topic, so I will start one.

[Archer1440]

Given that the larger dots are pretty much the school solution for competition, what is it about carry use that would make a smaller dot preferable?

In a nutshell- for target focused shooting, as the RDS demands when used properly, you can see more of the target, while gaining greater precision for longer shots (for example, 25 yards to the ocular zone on a Gunsite option target under time pressure).

I feel that once you have done the work to attain proficiency with the RDS, there are distinct advantages to the smaller dot, in my personal experience.

In addition, I have found that that the smaller dot encourages target focus more than a larger dot.

[SoCalDep]

I think the XXXX is the best pistol and everyone should use it.

I think the Trijicon SRO is the best optic because it was most popular in the nationals.

I’m disappointed they didn’t ask about dot size because now I don’t know what is best for me.

... because we’re all the same right?

Hell.. Based on 2020 CO stats I need a Sig P320X5 or Shadow 2 with a Double Alpha belt (screw dept. regs) with an SRO (or Romeo3Max) and thankfully I squeaked by with 51% factory grips so at least that won’t violate policy, and I need to reload my ammo since that’s what 69% of people did in the nationals.

People are different. Needs are different. There is no “best” for everyone. Hell my “best” continues to change the more I learn and dot size is several rungs down on the priority list. My dot size best may change in a couple weeks after a trip to the eye doctor and some contacts.

We can say our preference and why which is valid data to consider. No one can tell anyone what to use without a good amount of pertinent contextual info.

[Quantrill]

Is it safe to assume that the new 6moa sight has the new board?

[GJM]

Is it safe to assume that the new 6moa sight has the new board?

Yes

[Quantrill]

Yes

Appreciate it. Gonna pull the trigger

[Savage Hands]

GJM do you have pics you can share of your Glock DPP setup? Does the optic sit higher than its competitors?

Any recommendations on plates for a MOS setup?

[Quantrill]

Apologies for the bad pic. Midway delivered! This is the tactical tan DPP I received today. 67512

[GJM]

Apologies for the bad pic. Midway delivered! This is the tactical tan DPP I received today. 67512

That is the new circuit board. You can see the little trenches the feet sit in, so the decal is secondary not primary for holding everything in place.