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Trooper224
04-05-2016, 01:26 PM
This is neither a gamer or a timmie gun, so it may be of minimal interest to most here, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

I recently picked up a CZ1911A1.
http://m3.i.pbase.com/g9/64/521964/2/162924213.CajdY8dS.jpg

CZ put out a 1000 piece run of these last year. They were actually made by Dan Wesson (owned by CZ as most here know), but for whatever reason were released under the CZ brand. I bought this one strictly for the sake of nostalgia, nothing more. For some time I'd wanted a basic GI style 1911, like the ones Uncle Sugar used to loan me. This one is a nice example of that, a very nice example in fact. Other than the higher profile sights and the lowered ejection port it's straight up classic 1911A1 material. Cabela's had it marked down from $829.00 to $729.00 and I handled it several times before caving in. I compared it side by side to a basic blued Colt and I have to admit it beat the pony out in every category. I say that with a tinge of sadness as I'm usually a fan of the horsey marked pistols, but the evidence speaks for itself.

The thing came drenched in more oil than I've ever seen this side of some old surplus rifle. This forced me to do a complete take down in order to remove all the preservative. However, this did give me an opportunity to get a close look at the internals. While the magazine catch and grip safety are cast, everything else is machined tool steel. There are no MIM parts if you have that phobia. I don't, but it's a nice bit of traditional quality fitting for a retro-esque pistol like this. The exterior machining and finish are excellent and that's carried over into the internals. Everything is precisely machined, with evidence of hand fitting and polishing on things like the trigger, disconector, sear, etc. It's also the tightest 1911 I've ever owned. In fact, at first I wondered if I was going to get the thing apart. All of this is not something I'd expect in a gun in this price range.

http://m2.i.pbase.com/g9/64/521964/2/162924212.0dBuSHei.jpg

After I cleaned it up, then greased it up, I headed to the range and fired a cursory 100 rounds of my standard range load: a 200 grain LSWC over 4.4 grains of Bullseye. The trigger broke at five pounds even, a bit heavier than I prefer but with a very clean break and no creep or over travel. Firing off hand at twenty five yards my seven shot groups averaged two inches, with a few hovering around one and a half. Honestly, this was more than I was expecting from a basic 1911 with a heavier than optimal trigger. The gun shot to point of aim when using a six o'clock hold at twenty five yards, with shots landing a bit to the left. A closer examination showed the rear sight to be slightly off center, something a single tap with a brass punch cured. Since I didn't receive any unpleasant surprises in that first outing, I replaced the factory sear spring with one from Cylinder and Slide as I've done with many 1911's. This reduced the pull weight to just under four pounds, right in the area where I like my 1911 triggers to live. One other alteration I preformed concerns the thumb safety.

The pistol's thumb safety is very stiff out of the box, this seems to be a common theme with these. I didn't need two fingers to work the safety as some have reported, but it was stiff enough to wear a blister on my thumb knuckle from repeated manipulation. I compared the plunger spring to several Colt factory springs from my Box-o-Parts and found the CZ's spring to be stronger than what I would consider standard. Determining that I had a little room for error, I cut two coils from the plunger spring and reinstalled it. Normally I would be hesitant to do this as this can also effect the function of the slide stop, but it seems to have worked in this case. The thumb safety is now easy to operate in normal fashion and no other problems have surfaced. I'm assuming this is the standard plunger spring Dan Wesson uses in their 1911's. With the greater leverage an extended thumb safety imparts this doesn't seem to be an issue, but with the nubby little GI safety it seems to be too much.

Since then I've had several range sessions with the CZ, for a total of five hundred rounds. I haven't encountered any malfunctions or problems in that time. The pistol's reliability has been one hundred percent thus far, with accuracy I consider above average for a baseline pistol in this price range. The quality of manufacture is also something I'd consider above average for a production gun. In that regard, I think I'd say this is the best production 1911 I've ever owned. I've shot a few Dan Wesson 1911's, although I've never owned one. I've always been impressed with their level of quality. Digging deeper into this pistol has made me want a higher end DW gun. After spending several range sessions with it, including speed drills, it has made me appreciate modern enhancements like beaver tail grip safeties and extended thumb safeties. The narrow tang of the GI grip safety really beats into the web of your hand after a hundred or so rounds. As I said in the beginning, I bought this pistol for nostalgia as it reminds of when the world seemed to have a greater sense of clarity. As such, it's a fun gun for me and I won't be tarding it up. If you're looking for a classic retro 1911 I don't think you can do any better. I also think the CZ1911A1 would make an excellent base gun for a custom project if that's your desire.

Submitted for your consideration.

ReverendMeat
04-05-2016, 01:53 PM
I've been very impressed by the CZ 1911s I've handled so far, though I haven't shot any. Thanks for the writeup

JHC
04-05-2016, 04:27 PM
Great report. One of these is on my short list.

Trooper224
04-05-2016, 04:44 PM
Great report. One of these is on my short list.

They aren't making any more of them, so don't tarry.

One of the old Idiosyncrasies this one seems to lack is hammer bite, at least for me. They chose to use an older paddle style hammer instead of the later spur type. The paddles's a bit shorter so it doesn't hang to the end of the grip safety, thereby avoiding hammer bite. I was happy to discover that as I don't really need to freshen the old scar on the web of my shooting hand. The nicely checkered hammer is a good aesthetic touch too.

JonInWA
04-05-2016, 05:02 PM
Great report. Moderator "dsk" over on the 1911forum.com also has one, and did a very detailed comparison of it with a blued contemporary Colt 70 Series; his report was generally quite favorable (both for the CZ and the Colt), but he was one of the ones that had issues with the manual safety lever; his unsuccessful attempts to get Dan Wesson/CZ to favorably resolve it under warranty was interesting. The impression I had from his report was that CZ made the components, Dan Wesson assembled the guns, but CZ was the responsible warranty entity-which turned into quite a furball, up to and involving (unsuccessfully) the president of CZ...

Bottom line seemed to be that it's a very credible 1911, but resolution of any issues will likely be on the owner's own dime, by an outside gunsmith. That wouldn't necessarily deter me from getting one, but I would take a very hard concurrent look at the similar Colt 70 Series and assess what my intentions/needs were before sinking for one.

As Trooper224 mentioned, I've heard the same thing-1,000 made and they're done, so time is of the essence if you're looking for a BNIB one at a decent price.

Some links:

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=497620

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=500608

Best, Jon

Trooper224
04-05-2016, 05:20 PM
Contacting CZ directly (and not relying on info off the interwebz) confirmed for me that Dan Wesson made the parts and assembled the pistols. After all, the only manufacturing facility in the US owned by CZ is the Dan Wesson plant. Hence the "Model of 1911. Made in USA." on the right side of the slide. It wouldn't make any sense to have their facilities in the Czech Republic tool up for a limited run of something they don't make when they have a facility here in the US that makes them every day. "dsk" is quite Coltcentric so I'm a bit surprised he rated it as highly as he did next to the Colt, as he tends to excuse most aesthetic boo boos on the pistol with the pony. Personally, I wish Colt would adopt a matte finish like this rather than their half assed bluing job. The bluing is fine, but they refuse to take the metal prep one small step further so as to remove the grain from the surface and get rid of the cratered roll marks. It's pretty sad when something like a Kimber is superior in this regard to a Colt. Do it right or just don't bother.

I also wouldn't have bothered to contact CZ about the thumb safety issue, as it's something easily resolved in one way or another, in five or ten minutes. On the other hand dsk is really caught up in "the manufacturers responsibility" kind of thing, so that's understandable. However, his experience with CZ customer service seems to have been less than stellar. If service is needed, the pistols are sent to CZ in Kansas City rather than Dan Wesson. I don't see the logic in that as the same company owns both facilities, yet one specializes in the 1911 and the other doesn't. All that aside, it is a very nice pistol and one that I don't see having an issue that would require a trip to KC.

LSP972
04-05-2016, 08:06 PM
Thanks for the detailed write-up. Reminds me that its past time to dig out my Colt WW1 repro and give it some exercise.

The short trigger and better sights- and nothing else- make your pistol exceptional; retro with a twist.

.

TC215
04-05-2016, 08:39 PM
Good review.

I've had a bunch of DW's- can't go wrong with them.

LockedBreech
04-05-2016, 09:17 PM
Is this one of those things where they tell us it's a limited edition but if they all sell suddenly it's not?

TC215
04-05-2016, 09:40 PM
Is this one of those things where they tell us it's a limited edition but if they all sell suddenly it's not?

Actually, the opposite. They were originally going to do additional runs after the initial 1,000. Those plans have been scrapped.

JAD
04-05-2016, 09:45 PM
Great write up, thank you. I'm a huge colt fanboy but I carry my DW an awful lot.

LockedBreech
04-05-2016, 11:26 PM
Actually, the opposite. They were originally going to do additional runs after the initial 1,000. Those plans have been scrapped.

Well, crap.

If this is a genuine Dan Wesson built 1911, is currently available at or under 800, and is relatively true to GI spec, I might have just found my first keeper 1911 after my $330 cheapo pilot run with a Rock Island.

Any glaring cautionary notes, were I to take that plunge?

WDW
04-05-2016, 11:39 PM
Here's one if anybody wants it...
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_82/products_id/95409/CZ-USA+1911+A1+45ACP+7RD

Joe in PNG
04-05-2016, 11:45 PM
JG as well (http://www.jgsales.com/cz-1911a1-semi-auto-pistol,-45acp,-deep-black-finish,-gi-style,-new.-p-85230.html)

LockedBreech
04-05-2016, 11:47 PM
You bunch of enablers.

I'm getting coldish feet. I'm kinda inclined to just save all the way up for a Valor, which is a pistol I have wanted for ages.

Trooper224
04-06-2016, 12:57 AM
Any glaring cautionary notes, were I to take that plunge?

As of yet I haven't seen anything that sets off alarm bells. The front sight is secured by a roll pin and I've read a couple of reports of the pin coming out of the sight under recoil. This seems to occur right away, so after 500 rounds I'm not expecting it. The stiff thumb safety seems to be a common occurrence, but is easily fixed. All of the major machining and finishing is quite good, everything seems in spec.

Trooper224
04-06-2016, 12:58 AM
You bunch of enablers.

I'm getting coldish feet. I'm kinda inclined to just save all the way up for a Valor, which is a pistol I have wanted for ages.

So have I and this one is reinforcing that desire.

ReverendMeat
04-06-2016, 01:18 AM
You bunch of enablers.

I'm getting coldish feet. I'm kinda inclined to just save all the way up for a Valor, which is a pistol I have wanted for ages.

I recently sold my Valor out of necessity. I am sad every day now.

JonInWA
04-06-2016, 07:23 AM
Contacting CZ directly (and not relying on info off the interwebz) confirmed for me that Dan Wesson made the parts and assembled the pistols. After all, the only manufacturing facility in the US owned by CZ is the Dan Wesson plant. Hence the "Model of 1911. Made in USA." on the right side of the slide. It wouldn't make any sense to have their facilities in the Czech Republic tool up for a limited run of something they don't make when they have a facility here in the US that makes them every day. "dsk" is quite Coltcentric so I'm a bit surprised he rated it as highly as he did next to the Colt, as he tends to excuse most aesthetic boo boos on the pistol with the pony. Personally, I wish Colt would adopt a matte finish like this rather than their half assed bluing job. The bluing is fine, but they refuse to take the metal prep one small step further so as to remove the grain from the surface and get rid of the cratered roll marks. It's pretty sad when something like a Kimber is superior in this regard to a Colt. Do it right or just don't bother.

I also wouldn't have bothered to contact CZ about the thumb safety issue, as it's something easily resolved in one way or another, in five or ten minutes. On the other hand dsk is really caught up in "the manufacturers responsibility" kind of thing, so that's understandable. However, his experience with CZ customer service seems to have been less than stellar. If service is needed, the pistols are sent to CZ in Kansas City rather than Dan Wesson. I don't see the logic in that as the same company owns both facilities, yet one specializes in the 1911 and the other doesn't. All that aside, it is a very nice pistol and one that I don't see having an issue that would require a trip to KC.

Thanks for the additional research and correctives.

Best, Jon

JHC
04-06-2016, 07:54 AM
I'm always a sucker for retro 1911s. I have a line on a 1952 Commercial GM that was refinished at some point; for about a grand but not sure what the price outta be.
CZ vs older Colt.

45dotACP
04-06-2016, 09:35 AM
See this sucks because my tax return just showed up and I said I'd get a railed 1911 in 9mm and here's this retro looking gat in .45 that looks cool...

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

Sigfan26
04-06-2016, 06:10 PM
See this sucks because my tax return just showed up and I said I'd get a railed 1911 in 9mm and here's this retro looking gat in .45 that looks cool...

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk
https://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?item=01850

farscott
04-07-2016, 06:19 AM
I'm always a sucker for retro 1911s. I have a line on a 1952 Commercial GM that was refinished at some point; for about a grand but not sure what the price outta be.
CZ vs older Colt.

If refinished, it has zero collector value. As a shooter, I would expect that a new Colt with the dimpled barrel would be a better feeding gun. Hard to justify $300 for the Colt Commercial roll marks unless those roll marks. As a shooter, a refinished Commercial should be worth any other shooter, say $700. The Colt name does lead to so splurging ....

JHC
04-07-2016, 06:39 AM
If refinished, it has zero collector value. As a shooter, I would expect that a new Colt with the dimpled barrel would be a better feeding gun. Hard to justify $300 for the Colt Commercial roll marks unless those roll marks. As a shooter, a refinished Commercial should be worth any other shooter, say $700. The Colt name does lead to so splurging ....

$700 makes sense. If I do it's as a base for a special BBQ gun eventually. ;)

Trooper224
04-07-2016, 06:14 PM
Update: The round count currently stands at 1000 rounds. Now that the parts have worked in together the thumb safety has become a bit too easy to engage for my liking, with the shortened spring. Consequently, I've installed a plunger spring from an Ed Brown 1911 rebuild kit. This seems to split the difference and the safety is now easy to work but with good positive engagement. In my opinion, rather than filing or stoning safeties or plungers, this was the wiser course of action taken in fixing the stiff safety issue. It's much easier to swap a spring than it is to replace too much metal that's been removed.

JonInWA
04-07-2016, 07:47 PM
Here's my spin comparison on the CeeZed 1911 vs the Colt Series 70 Repro: If to be used pretty much "as is;" I'd go Colt. If to be modded/customized, I think that's where the CZ shines, particularly given the non-MIM nature of its action components.

To me, the Series 70 is great just as it comes-not perfect, but a nice, eminently usable stock 1911, with a retro orientation but better (and usable as is) sights. If I wanted it to be somethning else, personally I'd just get another Colt, Nighthawk Custom, Wilson Combat....etc.

But hey-it the user's gun, and we can do whatever we want...

Both are excellent choices, in my opinion.

Best, Jon

Nephrology
04-07-2016, 08:01 PM
Here's my spin comparison on the CeeZed 1911 vs the Colt Series 70 Repro: If to be used pretty much "as is;" I'd go Colt. If to be modded/customized, I think that's where the CZ shines, particularly given the non-MIM nature of its action components.

To me, the Series 70 is great just as it comes-not perfect, but a nice, eminently usable stock 1911, with a retro orientation but better (and usable as is) sights. If I wanted it to be somethning else, personally I'd just get another Colt, Nighthawk Custom, Wilson Combat....etc.

But hey-it the user's gun, and we can do whatever we want...

Both are excellent choices, in my opinion.

Best, Jon

You know, despite all of the hair-splitting that I have seen (and regularly participate in) online, I generally find that whatever gun I just bought was an excellent choice. Certainly beats spending that money on just about anything else.