The Panama Papers

[farscott]

This offers a view into how finance for the rich and powerful really functions. Fascinating reading. Plus there are hints that some prominent Americans will be named. https://panamapapers.icij.org/

[LittleLebowski]

.....

[Gray222]

"Papers"

Verified by...who?

I enjoy this type of mainstream conspiracy theories, they are always fun. Baseless but fun.

[Hambo]

I enjoy this type of mainstream conspiracy theories

I don't see this as a conspiracy theory. People with lots of money don't want to pay taxes, so they pay banks and lawyers to hide it by any means possible. The fact that certain European banks aren't picky about their clientele isn't new.

[Whirlwind06]

I predict that this will last for very short new cycle. A week from now it will what panama papers?

[TCinVA]

Money chases power. Power chases money. And there will never be a shortage of ways to hide the chase.

[Gray222]

I don't see this as a conspiracy theory. People with lots of money don't want to pay taxes, so they pay banks and lawyers to hide it by any means possible. The fact that certain European banks aren't picky about their clientele isn't new.

...so otherwise legal use of laws is criminally suspect because its what "rich" and "powerful" people do?

You and me would do the same in their positions, of this I am certain.

[farscott]

I predict that this will last for very short new cycle. A week from now it will what panama papers?

I am not so sure about the duration of this event. It really depends on what other names are tied to the legal firm. Say, for example, Secretary Clinton, Governor Romney, or Secretary Geithner. It also depends on whether the USG decides to crush those entities that have been using the legal firm to fund terrorism via some of these shell companies.

To be sure, shell companies can be legal. Like much else in the law, intent is key to legality.

[farscott]

"Papers"

Verified by...who?

I enjoy this type of mainstream conspiracy theories, they are always fun. Baseless but fun.

Here is what the summary says.


The largest cross-border journalism collaboration ever has uncovered a giant leak of documents from Mossack Fonseca, a global law firm based in Panama.

The secret files:

Include 11.5 million records, dating back nearly 40 years – making it the largest leak in offshore history. Contains details on more than 214,000 offshore entities connected to people in more than 200 countries and territories. Company owners in billionaires, sports stars, drug smugglers and fraudsters.

Reveal the offshore holdings 140 politicians and public officials around the world – including 12 current and former world leaders. Among them: the prime ministers of Iceland and Pakistan, the president of Ukraine, and the king of Saudi Arabia.

Document some $2 billion in transactions secretly shuffled through banks and shadow companies by associates of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Include the names of at least 33 people and companies blacklisted by the U.S. government because of evidence that they’d been involved in wrongdoing, such as doing business with Mexican drug lords, terrorist organizations like Hezbollah or rogue nations like North Korea and Iran.

Show how major banks have driven the creation of hard-to-trace companies in offshore havens. More than 500 banks their subsidiaries and their branches – including HSBC, UBS and Société Générale – created more than 15,000 offshore companies for their customers through Mossack Fonseca.


The Panama Papers expose the internal operations of one of the world’s leading firms in incorporation of offshore entities, Panama-headquartered Mossack Fonseca. The 2.6 terabytes of data that make up the Panama Papers files were obtained by German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung and shared with ICIJ and more than 100 media partners.

The leak contains more than 11.5 million internal files of the company. It includes nearly 40 years of data, from 1977 through the end of 2015. The data contains a few incorporations before 1977, but they are sporadic and represent less than 1% of the companies. Although the data within the leak stretches back to 1977, Mossack Fonseca only came into being under its current name and structure in 1986, when Ramón Fonseca merged his small, one-secretary law firm in Panama with another local firm headed by Jürgen Mossack, a Panamanian of German origin.

The data shows that Mossack Fonseca worked with more than 14,000 banks, law firms, company incorporators and other middlemen to set up companies, foundations and trusts for customers. ICIJ used the country categorization contained in the leaked internal client database to describe how many intermediaries were in each country.

This internal database didn’t have a date for the closing of the companies. In the offshore world entities are hardly closed: they’re either inactivated or they stop paying fees and their status changes to what’s called “struck off” in the offshore lingo. ICIJ considered inactivation and struck off dates as the deactivation date of the companies. In the case of any discrepancy between the two dates, ICIJ used the one that happened first. A company was counted as active from the incorporation date until it was inactivated or struck off.

ICIJ will release the full list of companies and people linked to them in early May.

[okie john]

Please, please, PLEASE let the Clinton Foundation be a long-time Mossack Fonseca client.


Okie John

[MGW]

Please, please, PLEASE let the Clinton Foundation be a long-time Mossack Fonseca client.


Okie John

I agree but I have a feeling that there will be big names from both sides of the isle that end up with mud on their face over this.

[Jeep]

Heck, when you are a tax-free "foundation" you don't need to offshore money to Panama. You hold it right here in the USA and claim that it is being used for . . . well, important stuff. Then you pay for your entire campaign structure before the campaign officially begins with the income from the foundation's expenses by calling those people "consultants."

Foundations are currently the biggest tax avoidance scam going in the US.

[NEPAKevin]

Please, please, PLEASE let the Clinton Foundation be a long-time Mossack Fonseca client.


Okie John

Must not be anything real or we would be tripping over all the dead journalists. Tough job, lots of suicides and accidents.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

I am not so sure about the duration of this event. It really depends on what other names are tied to the legal firm. Say, for example, Secretary Clinton, Governor Romney, or Secretary Geithner. It also depends on whether the USG decides to crush those entities that have been using the legal firm to fund terrorism via some of these shell companies.

To be sure, shell companies can be legal. Like much else in the law, intent is key to legality.

Legality is the key to legality.

It's not a loophole. It's not a trick or a technicality.

Is an activity or device clearly defined and prohibited?

No?

Then it is legal.

Don't like it? Change the law.

[farscott]

Legality is the key to legality.

It's not a loophole. It's not a trick or a technicality.

Is an activity or device clearly defined and prohibited?

No?

Then it is legal.

Don't like it? Change the law.

I believe the intent of the shell company might be a key to whether it or its owners are within the letter of the law. If one funds a shell company for legal tax mitigation purposes, that is one thing. If one funds a shell company to disguise the flow of money from drug sales or to terrorists or to avoid paying taxes, that is a whole other thing. Where the line is drawn between those two things is something for the courts to decide.

So far, it looks like these papers (files) have brought down one government as the PM of Iceland now faces a confidence vote, and he has stated that he will call for "snap elections".

[TAZ]

It's most likely that the entities are legal. Lots of other entities aside from the rich and famous use tax friendly locales to shelter $$ from the Fed Gov who will most likely piss it away.

I do always find it ironic that those who cry the loudest about folks paying their fair share tend to pay their own fair share to accountants in efforts to hide it from the government.

Unlikely that anything significant will come of this, especially if prominent liberals are on the secret files along side those evil conservative businesses.

[Edwin]

Iceland's Prime Minister resigns and tries to dissolve Parliament. http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/05/europe/panama-papers-iceland-pm/

Others named in the papers were arrested in the Philippines.

[BaiHu]

Iceland's Prime Minister resigns and tries to dissolve Parliament. http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/05/europe/panama-papers-iceland-pm/

Others named in the papers were arrested in the Philippines.
Does anyone find it odd that Iceland is the only country that has truly punished any financial wrongdoing? I do. I really figured we'd be batting a thousand.

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[Edwin]

Does anyone find it odd that Iceland is the only country that has truly punished any financial wrongdoing? I do. I really figured we'd be batting a thousand.

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Is that really a surprise? Those with money are the ones with power. Considering the revolving door we have in Congress and campaigns being financed, it shouldn't be a surprise.

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[BaiHu]

Is that really a surprise? Those with money are the ones with power. Considering the revolving door we have in Congress and campaigns being financed, it shouldn't be a surprise.

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I meant that I'm surprised ANYONE follows the rule of law. It's novel that Iceland does. Quaint almost.

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[Gray222]

Is that really a surprise? Those with money are the ones with power. Considering the revolving door we have in Congress and campaigns being financed, it shouldn't be a surprise.

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Congress, much like most gov political positions shouldnt be life long type, there should not only be a cap but a ban after a certain amount of terms.

We need to go back to the original system. Politics is part time and never life long.

[Drang]

People don't want to pay taxes, so people who can afford to pay banks and lawyers to hide it by any means possible. The fact that certain European banks aren't picky about their clientele isn't new.
FIFY. As noted elsewhere (like, below), we'd all do it if we could. Hopefully, in funds that do not fund illegal, immoral, or unethical activities.


...so otherwise legal use of laws is criminally suspect because its what "rich" and "powerful" people do?

You and me would do the same in their positions, of this I am certain.

You should have figured out by now that the legality of an activity that is disapproved of is called a "loophole". You know, like being able to sell your guns to a guy you know without getting a Mother May I?

[Dagga Boy]

Panama has long been the Switzerland of Central America. You can thank Jimmy Carter for why we do not have much presence there anymore, and why things are the way they are. Panama is doing what is best for them thanks to our leaving.....this means the Chinese now practically own the place, and a go around of any sort of US laws or interests is not much of a factor.

[NEPAKevin]

I meant that I'm surprised ANYONE follows the rule of law. It's novel that Iceland does. Quaint almost.

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It is the land of ice and snow where the hot spring blow, you know. Resigning is pretty tame compared to old school Northmen justice. Blood Eagle
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_eagle) see also Vikings E2.7
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug6Gez_kPHo) (depicts blood and gore)

[Trooper224]

Anything entitled "The Panama Papers" sounds like it should star Humphrey Bogart and Sydney Greenstreet.

[NEPAKevin]

Don't forget Peter Lorre.

[Trooper224]

Don't forget Peter Lorre.

"I have you now Mr. Spade!"

[Gray222]

You should have figured out by now that the legality of an activity that is disapproved of is called a "loophole". You know, like being able to sell your guns to a guy you know without getting a Mother May I?

Unless something is clearly stated to be illegal, moral and ethics should not be a factor.

This whole thing is a bit of a projection of the people's opinion and not exactly a violation of the law in each and every country. Some places have actual laws against doing these things, those countries should enforce those laws. There are no such laws in Russia, Ukraine, or the US and whatever laws there are that may skirt this topic were not violated, until some federal prosecutor for their respective countries thinks they have a case and tries it.

[Drang]

Here's a thought: How many people with 401Ks or IRAs may be invested in a fund with questionable connections?

Meanwhile, and speaking of questionable investments, as Tam mentioned the other day, Obama has decided to double down on subprime mortgages (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2016/04/isnt-this-where-we-came-in.html).

[BaiHu]

It is the land of ice and snow where the hot spring blow, you know. Resigning is pretty tame compared to old school Northmen justice. Blood Eagle
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_eagle) see also Vikings E2.7
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug6Gez_kPHo) (depicts blood and gore)
Where's the "love it" button?

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[Trooper224]

Unless something is clearly stated to be illegal, moral and ethics should not be a factor.

This whole thing is a bit of a projection of the people's opinion and not exactly a violation of the law in each and every country. Some places have actual laws against doing these things, those countries should enforce those laws. There are no such laws in Russia, Ukraine, or the US and whatever laws there are that may skirt this topic were not violated, until some federal prosecutor for their respective countries thinks they have a case and tries it.

People often confuse what is "fair" with what is "legal". As we know, that's all too often not the case.

[Edwin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2APYPjTWZ8&list=WL&index=79

[Gray222]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2APYPjTWZ8&list=WL&index=79

Given vox's blatant anti-gun rhetoric and outright lying on facts to support their agenda/stance, personally, I won't contribute to them or read/watch anything they produce.

[farscott]

Unless something is clearly stated to be illegal, moral and ethics should not be a factor.

This whole thing is a bit of a projection of the people's opinion and not exactly a violation of the law in each and every country. Some places have actual laws against doing these things, those countries should enforce those laws. There are no such laws in Russia, Ukraine, or the US and whatever laws there are that may skirt this topic were not violated, until some federal prosecutor for their respective countries thinks they have a case and tries it.

At least in Russia, there are laws against using shell companies for taxes, but prosecution is very selective. The best example is Mikhail Khodorkovsky of Yukos, who was charged and convicted of using shell companies for the purposes of tax evasion. The prosecution was said to be politically motivated, but there are Russian laws that cover this. But when the most powerful man in Russia benefits from the tax evasion, prosecution is unlikely.

[StrikerFire]

Unless something is clearly stated to be illegal, moral and ethics should not be a factor.

How far down this road do you want to go?

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007459

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007902

Ethics and morals underpin law and a civil society.

[Gray222]

How far down this road do you want to go?

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007459

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007902

Ethics and morals underpin law and a civil society.

I was speaking in the modern context of US laws.