Lessons

[Tom Givens]

Check out this story.

http://madworldnews.com/concealed-carry-permit-holder/

Two important lessons from this:

Carry your damn gun.

Don't go looking for a problem without expecting to find it.

[CADFather]

I've been on this site for a few days now basically just reading posts and getting a feel for the folks here, Mr. McKinley got complacent and wandered into a situation he was not prepared for, I didn't know him but he could have benefited from reading some of the basics I've seen on this forum. I'm a Corrections Sergeant with GDOC and have stressed to my officers to not become complacent when dealing with inmates, those 2 bad actors express that point as they are inmates that just haven't been caught, yet. Prayers out to Mr. McKinleys family and to those looking for the two.

CAD

[DBLAction454]

I don't answer my door without my gun anymore


Nos pro patria

[Drew78]

Yup, bad shit can happen any day, any time. Pants on, gun on for me. Hell, even if he tossed an lcp or snubbie in his jammie pants pocket he could have been a bit better prepared maybe. I'm not trying to armchair this tragic event after the fact. ALWAYS, be prepared, you can never know why the dogs are barking, what that thud was outside, whose knocking at your for, etc.... stay vigilant folks, my thoughts are with the family.

[Hot Sauce]

Not trying to Monday morning QB at all. Just using the news peg for discussion.

Not something I have ever read on this forum, because I presume people here are smarter than that. But based on things people claim to do or expect to do when hearing a bump in the night..

I'll just say this. There are very few reasons I can think of to go outside of your locked front door to follow up a bump in the night, regardless of whether you're carrying or not.

[Clay]

Very sad to hear, and all too common.


People always think they'll be able to go fetch a gun. If you have time to fetch a gun, better just fetch yo' ass somewhere's else and avoid the problem altogether. I'm astounded in the amount of knowledgeable, skilled people (CHL holders and off-duty LEO) that never seem to have a gun on them when they come to our range. They have an unloaded range pistol in a bag, or an unloaded rifle in a case.

One guy who is LEO came in recently to buy a shotgun to keep in his garage, so's he could fetch it if he needed to, while he was out mowing the yard or working on his car. I said "why don't you just carry a pistol on you all the time and be done with it" - he looked at me like I had two heads. I'm too paranoid I guess.

[ReverendMeat]

One guy who is LEO came in recently to buy a shotgun to keep in his garage, so's he could fetch it if he needed to, while he was out mowing the yard or working on his car. I said "why don't you just carry a pistol on you all the time and be done with it" - he looked at me like I had two heads. I'm too paranoid I guess.

You know, I can't even count the number of times someone has told me about stashing a gun in every room of the house "so there's always one within arms reach" but when I recommend just carrying one at home I get that is-there-a-dick-growing-out-of-my-forehead stare. Probably a lot of overlap with people who carry "Israeli."

[BehindBlueI's]

One of my very first murder scenes as a uniformed officer was a guy toes up halfway in/halfway out of his door and in his boxer shorts. Someone had dumped a mag of .25 in him. Evidence indicated he was gut shot, fell down, and they they emptied it into his face. I spent over 3 hours clearing guns to transport to the property room for safe keeping until next of kin could be notified. Eleventy bajillion loaded guns in the house, dead on the door step in his boxers.

I carry around the house, during lawn work, etc. I'm not into stash guns for a variety of reasons.

[AMC]

I'd say that 90% of our coppers don't ever carry off duty, most don't own their own guns, and think you must be a "tackleberry" if you carry or train. The most common excuse is, " I never needed one before I became a cop, so why would I need one now?" Or "If you're smart, you won't ever need a gun".

[BillSWPA]

Not trying to Monday morning QB at all. Just using the news peg for discussion.

Not something I have ever read on this forum, because I presume people here are smarter than that. But based on things people claim to do or expect to do when hearing a bump in the night..

I'll just say this. There are very few reasons I can think of to go outside of your locked front door to follow up a bump in the night, regardless of whether you're carrying or not.

Agreed. Anything outside my house costs far less to replace than hiring a lawyer to deal with even a clear defensive shooting.

Also agree with comments above about carrying all the time. In general, if I am dressed, I am carrying my gun, unless I am going somewhere that I cannot safely or legally bring the gun. I cannot imagine just leaving guns around the house for kids, visitors, repairmen, etc. to potentially find.

[Kukuforguns]

My carry permit doesn't work where I live. Moreover, a strong argument could be made that it's illegal for me to carry a firearm out my front door onto my own lawn. Puts me in rather an awkward position. Do I call the cops every time a possum/raccoon sets my dog off? Do I ignore my dog when he alerts? Do I go outside with my weapon and risk arrest because my dog has alerted? Do I go outside unarmed when my dog alerts? Every option has obvious problems.

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[BillSWPA]

My carry permit doesn't work where I live. Moreover, a strong argument could be made that it's illegal for me to carry a firearm out my front door onto my own lawn. Puts me in rather an awkward position. Do I call the cops every time a possum/raccoon sets my dog off? Do I ignore my dog when he alerts? Do I go outside with my weapon and risk arrest because my dog has alerted? Do I go outside unarmed when my dog alerts? Every option has obvious problems.

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Step 1 is to have good exterior lighting (realizing that might not be within your control if you rent) so that you can make an initial attempt to determine why the dog is barking from inside the house.

Unless you have an indication that someone you care about is in danger, ask yourself how important it is to investigate further if you do not see indications of trouble. If you and your family are safe, why go out to the danger without a good reason? What if there is a problem, and that problem gets past you and now has your keys to your house?

If you do need to go outside, grab a knife from your kitchen, baseball bat, pepper spray, etc. before going outside. Something is better than nothing, although still suboptimal against a gun. When I go somewhere that I cannot legally have a gun, I at least have pepper spray and at least one knife that is legal in that jurisdiction. If those are not an option, then I have a flashlight I can use as a Kubotan/yawara type weapon, defensive pen, etc.

Make sure you have good unarmed fighting skills.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

If Fido alerts - what does it mean? What is the advantage of going outside to protect the shrubs or the car? If you think it is serious enough to go outside to disrupt the activity, it is serious enough to call the law.

However, it is easy enough to have lights and a loud alarm that you can trigger from inside the house. Dogs around here bark all the time. Also, possums, squirrels, skunks, raccoons, armadillos, bunny rabbits and deer wander by. Woof, woof, woof - can go on all night.

[BehindBlueI's]

My carry permit doesn't work where I live. Moreover, a strong argument could be made that it's illegal for me to carry a firearm out my front door onto my own lawn. Puts me in rather an awkward position. Do I call the cops every time a possum/raccoon sets my dog off? Do I ignore my dog when he alerts? Do I go outside with my weapon and risk arrest because my dog has alerted? Do I go outside unarmed when my dog alerts? Every option has obvious problems.

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What is the goal you are seeking to accomplish by going outside?

[Tamara]

I just can't quit y'all.

This thread is all ate up with clue.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

What is the goal you are seeking to accomplish by going outside?

In many similar threads, all over, about what to do with the noise outside or downstairs - the main driver, IMHO is the emotional and subcortical sense of territory and dominance violation. Unless, you have to save someone - wandering around outside isn't that sensible. Usually the costs of such an exercise that goes bad outweigh the benefits - even to protect most property.

Sometimes you see someone say - well, the law is 45 minutes away and that's why I take care of it myself and go outside.

Well, that may be true but why not call them and establish that you were under threat and start emergency responders rolling towards you. Gives them a head start as compared to calling them later when someone is down or hurt.

At Karl Rehn's we ran a bunch of house exercises, inside and out. The home defender person who left a secure position usually just got shot up. It was to their surprise. Most were rational enough to realize their emotions got the best of them. Classic was to enter the long hallway (OF DEATH!).

[BehindBlueI's]

In many similar threads, all over, about what to do with the noise outside or downstairs - the main driver, IMHO is the emotional and subcortical sense of territory and dominance violation.

Absolutely, but that's why I posed the question. Often people do things without thinking what their goal actually is, as you mention with the "subcortical sense..." We are hardwired to do certain things in response to certain other things. Male robins will violently attack a piece of red cloth made to look like another male's red chest feathers but will completely ignore an actual male robin who's chest feathers have been painted gray. Mother turkeys will protect a "predator" stuffed animal if it makes the "cheep-cheep" sound baby turkeys make, but attack the crap out of the same stuffed predator when it stops going "cheep-cheep". As humans we have those same sorts of responses to set criteria built in that may not actually be accomplishing the goal we think we are accomplishing (being safer, in this instance)...but we also have the capacity to stop, reflect, and ask if that's the best response to what our goals actually are. Asking what the goal is is the first step toward not attacking red felt while leaving the real male robin alone.

[Drang]

In many similar threads, all over, about what to do with the noise outside or downstairs - the main driver, IMHO is the emotional and subcortical sense of territory and dominance violation. Unless, you have to save someone - wandering around outside isn't that sensible. Usually the costs of such an exercise that goes bad outweigh the benefits - even to protect most property.
So I started trying to devise plausible reasons to go outside. The problem is, they all rely on knowing that you are likely to be targeted by someone known to be willing and able to throw fire bombs or shoot rockets at your house. Which seems unlikely.
Not saying I'll never step outside in the middle of the night to investigate strange noises, but here will almost certainly be a 911 call made first. "There's been a terrible accident at the corner of walk and don't walk..." or maybe "Horrible screaming is coming from the house kitty-corner from me..." (I did once wake up in the middle of the night by the smell of smoke, and get dressed to go out and investigate that. The fire department had someone driving around trying to find the source, so I don't feel too bad about not calling first.)

Met a guy who was self-admittedly one of those training-chasers, he and his buddies went to Gunsite so often they made up stuff for them to do. Said he was there once for a shoot house exercise, the scenario was that you pulled up solo to a dark house and had to (for some reason) go inside to find a person of interest. So he says "Aha! I shall use my new NVGs!"
"Batteries are dead."
"Okay, getting out my flashlight..."
"Batteries are dead."
Okay, my backup flash..."
"Batteries are dead."
"Spare...."
"Nope."
"Hmmm, well, I guess I'd better go into this dark house with no light then, seems dicey..." Opens door, sees candle in middle of room, backs out and says "I'm calling for backup." Said he was the only one to pass that scenario, everyone was "killed" by the goblin because the candle was enough to render them night blind.

[11B10]

I don't answer my door without my gun anymore


Nos pro patria





I totally agree with this ^^^^ and I take an awful lot of razzing because of it. The ONLY time I am not carrying is when I'm in the shower and even then, my gun's less than a arm's length away. Sure, it's a PITA to strap on my belt/holster w/P320C/ammo pouch + my Griptilian and Streamlight, but the alternative is not acceptable.

[Tamara]

I try to live by the words of the great warrior-poet, Chef: "Never get out of the boat. (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-nightmare-before-christmas.html)"

(That's a slight exaggeration, of course, but it does remind me to think hard about whether I really need to "get out of the boat" or not.)

[Kukuforguns]

What is the goal you are seeking to accomplish by going outside?
Thank you. Best answer to my question was this question.

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[nycnoob]

I spent over 3 hours clearing guns to transport to the property room for safe keeping until next of kin could be notified. Eleventy bajillion loaded guns in the house, dead on the door step in his boxers.

How did you even know all those loaded guns were stashed? How did you know where to look or when you found them all?

[Hambo]

What is the goal you are seeking to accomplish by going outside?

Exactly. Last Sunday, my wife went to bed, dogs were apparently off duty as they did not wake up. I was getting ready for bed when a helo flew low over the house and began orbiting the area. Wife and dogs did not awake. I grabbed a pistol. Even with light off my house is light enough for me to navigate, so I snuck into the living room where I could see two SO cars just down the street. No exterior lights had been tripped, but as I checked that the doors were secure I turned on all exterior lighting. Then what did I do? Nothing, except watching the cops out front and waiting for it all to end. I'm not going to lie, it sucked just like it has every other time some version of this has played out in my hood, but I don't get paid to hunt BGs in the dark anymore. Had I gone outside I could have walked blindly into the guy they were hunting, or one of the several deputies I didn't see until later. Not a good day out.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

At the NTI, we had to clear a house (you had to - couldn't stay out). My partner came out when time was called and said: "Glenn, I shot my son". He was hiding behind the shower curtain and when discovered - Bang!

The most fun was clearing a house with a coach gun and you were wearing a smock to pretend you were naked out of bed. You had the gun and a box of shot gun shells. Mixed bird and slugs. That was exciting with multiple bad guys. You were supposed to discern slug or bird by feel and choose according to distance. I ended up just throwing in rounds and shooting whatever. Then surprised by a bad guy dummy, I just butt stroked him with the shotgun.

So much for those who say that a double barrel is fun to use under stress, in the dark, naked. :rolleyes:

[Chuck Haggard]

Leaving guns all over the house is far, far more likely to lead to well armed burglars after they break in when you are not home than to protect the people living in the house.



Sometimes the bad guys are aware of the "homeowner in a bathrobe coming out with a gun to check things out" and plan accordingly. Locally we had a crew that wasn't above putting a dude with a shotgun onto a low roof to cover them if the homeowner came outside after them.

[BehindBlueI's]

How did you even know all those loaded guns were stashed? How did you know where to look or when you found them all?

They weren't hidden for the most part. There were loaded handguns laying on tables, loaded long guns propped in corners, etc. Dozens of loaded long guns in the closet, drawers with multiple loaded handguns, etc. There were a few fastened to the undersides of end tables, stools, etc.

I would not swear we found them all.

[Tabasco]

I'd say that 90% of our coppers don't ever carry off duty, most don't own their own guns, and think you must be a "tackleberry" if you carry or train. The most common excuse is, " I never needed one before I became a cop, so why would I need one now?" Or "If you're smart, you won't ever need a gun".

Has that always been the case , or is this attitude something that developed over the years?

[Range1]

I became a police officer in 1984 and was a firearms instructor for over 20 years. Don't know about percentages but that general attitude was prevalent then and I did not see much change over the years.

[LittleLebowski]

I've been on this site for a few days now basically just reading posts and getting a feel for the folks here, Mr. McKinley got complacent and wandered into a situation he was not prepared for, I didn't know him but he could have benefited from reading some of the basics I've seen on this forum. I'm a Corrections Sergeant with GDOC and have stressed to my officers to not become complacent when dealing with inmates, those 2 bad actors express that point as they are inmates that just haven't been caught, yet. Prayers out to Mr. McKinleys family and to those looking for the two.

CAD

Welcome aboard!

[Nephrology]

There was a shooting just 2 floors down in my apartment complex a few weeks ago (didn't recognize it was a shooting at the time) and I saw, as you might imagine, quite a bit of suspicious activity outside. Grabbed a few extra mags to throw next to my nightstand gun, definitely stayed in my pajamas and never once considered going outside. I have good non-collision insurance coverage and a low, low deductible for a reason.

[Aray]

"Don't walk across the street to get your ass kicked" is one of my favorite old guy sayings.

[Cypher]

I am convinced that I stopped an attempted robbery at the front door of my home several years ago by simply not opening the door.

A stranger showed up at my door around 9 pm saying that he wanted to give me a free Denver Post. This was back when I owned a home and I looked through the front window and he had no newspaper in his hands.

He spent 10 minutes trying to get me to open that door; nothing else was going to do. I finally ended the conversation by telling him I was calling the police. I am aware that there are any number of things I could have done better but it was almost 10 years ago and I’ve learned some since then.

I believe it’s prudent not to open the door to a stranger if for no other reason than I don’t want to hear a pitch for meat or a vacuum cleaner or encyclopedias or magazines or an invitation to your church. By not opening the door for anyone I don’t know I automatically am never faced with a situation where I open the door to a criminal.

If it is a criminal I want every advantage I can have. Why put myself in a position where I have to fight them at the door when I can just not open the door and avoid the fight entirely?

[Joe in PNG]

A good thread, and one worth reviewing again.

[Cypher]

I found this thread because Tamara Keel quoted this post


One of my very first murder scenes as a uniformed officer was a guy toes up halfway in/halfway out of his door and in his boxer shorts. Someone had dumped a mag of .25 in him. Evidence indicated he was gut shot, fell down, and they they emptied it into his face. I spent over 3 hours clearing guns to transport to the property room for safe keeping until next of kin could be notified. Eleventy bajillion loaded guns in the house, dead on the door step in his boxers.

I carry around the house, during lawn work, etc. I'm not into stash guns for a variety of reasons.

And a link on her blog.

It seems like this topic comes up every couple of weeks on some gun forum somewhere. It's usually someone looking for advice on stashing guns around their house "just in case".

Oddly enough the same people who feel the need to stage multiple guns through out their home tell me that I'm paranoid when I suggest it might be simpler to just carry at home. Invariably someone will post "If I felt the need to go armed at home I'd move."

The primary reason I own a Glock19 is because I consider it small enough to conveniently carry at home (YMMV).

I used to do the "go to the door with the gun in my hand" thing. The incident I posted above was the last time I ever did that. If someone knocks on my door now I don't even get up from the couch. I ask who it is and if I don't know you I tell you to leave without ever getting near the (barred) door. And when I post that I invariably get at least "I refuse to hide behind my door in fear." response.

[blues]

Nothing beats not shaving for a week and greeting the bible toters at the door with a firearm and a snarling dog. (I kid.)

I carry in the home often but usually because I'm too lazy to change out of the day's attire into sweats. But even so, there may or may not be something or other in a couple of strategic spots known only to the missus, the pooch and myself. And my sweats have pockets. ;)

[11B10]

Back in the days when I put signs on my house, I had one for the various religious hucksters - it read: "NO SOLICITING IN THE NAME OF GOD." If a person persisted, I handed them a note (through the mail slot) that said: "Jesus loves you - everyone else thinks you're an asshole." I never talked to them and I NEVER opened the door. I'm no longer the smart ass, no more signs as they seem to inspire rather than deter. Having said that, right now I'm in my recliner, a Cryo-Max cold pack on one knee, heating pads on both shoulders (had a real good day at Gold's) - but most importantly - my H&K P30SK is AIWB (10+1/Federal HST 147 grain), with a spare mag at 11:00, my Griptilian in my rf pocket (sweat pants) and my polytac in my lf pocket. The pistol and mag carrier are on a Wilderness Instructor's belt. I'm so equipped whether I'm taking the garbage out, closing my garage for the night - you name it. This is EVERY night, 7 days a week. It's who I am.

[1slow]

Back in the days when I put signs on my house, I had one for the various religious hucksters - it read: "NO SOLICITING IN THE NAME OF GOD." If a person persisted, I handed them a note (through the mail slot) that said: "Jesus loves you - everyone else thinks you're an asshole." I never talked to them and I NEVER opened the door. I'm no longer the smart ass, no more signs as they seem to inspire rather than deter. Having said that, right now I'm in my recliner, a Cryo-Max cold pack on one knee, heating pads on both shoulders (had a real good day at Gold's) - but most importantly - my H&K P30SK is AIWB (10+1/Federal HST 147 grain), with a spare mag at 11:00, my Griptilian in my rf pocket (sweat pants) and my polytac in my lf pocket. The pistol and mag carrier are on a Wilderness Instructor's belt. I'm so equipped whether I'm taking the garbage out, closing my garage for the night - you name it. This is EVERY night, 7 days a week. It's who I am.

Makes sense to me.

[Hambo]

Back in the days when I put signs on my house, I had one for the various religious hucksters

At one point I had a bright orange sticker from the coroner's office on my door. I don't recall exactly what it said, but it had something to do with "county coroner...biohazards". I had to take it off the door when the UPS guy nearly shit himself and was going to quit leaving packages.

I don't always carry in the house, but I do keep a pistol nearby. 99.9% of "home invasions" are drug related, but there was one of the 0.1% locally. Four dudes hit a jewelry store but an off duty cop saw them enter and called 911. The getaway driver panicked and got away. One ran and entered a house, then forced the family to drive him south to his hood where he got out and ran.

[GuanoLoco]

If you have the right kind of non-vegan dog then the smarter door-knockers will hold the storm door closed for you.

[JohnO]

Last Fall I was in my yard blowing leaves. I had earbuds in under my hearing protection. I turned in the natural course of doing what I was doing and I just about jumped out of my skin. Two guys were standing about 10 yards away trying to get my attention. I immediately shut down the leaf blower and asked them what they wanted. Prior to spotting them I was somewhere between Condition White & Yellow. White -> Yellow because my guard was completely down however since I had a concealed pistol and a straight blade I wasn't unarmed.

Lets just say they were not the type of individuals I expected to find standing in my yard. They both were wearing the same polo shirt with company logos and ID's on lanyards around their necks. They were selling roofing and selling it high pressure. One guy did all the talking. The other said hello but nothing more. Perhaps learning the ropes? Fortunately for them and me they stayed together. Had they spread apart I would have gone from a solid Orange to a burning hot Red. It took me a good amount of time to get rid of them. I fell into their hard sell trap by trying to be nice. I should have never engaged them in conversation. I should have just been blunt, "I'm not interested please get off my property".

Any regret or uncertainty about carrying at home and never needing it instantly faded away. That moment in time instantly defined why I do what I do. Having it was there was priceless.

[JustOneGun]

Good thread to revive. Common sense isn't so common. I always told gun people I knew my saying, "What you do right before you know you're going to get in a fight often determines how that fight ends." That is probably true for most bad things that happen to us.

My family laughs at me when I tell them why I lock my gates (everyone not in uniform then knocking on my door is a trespasser). They call me the hermit. Fast forward a few months and here is the same family member complaining that someone drove up into their yard, honked the horn and then tried to sell them jewelry. To say we live in a small town is an understatement. She actually pretended to listen when I explained to her that the woman probably wasn't actually selling jewelry but scoping out the empty winter homes. She still leaves her gates open.

I also have a family member who does the whole, I'll run to my gun when something bad happens. I envision him dancing around like John Belushi on the steps of the university. I never found putting my pants on in the morning and taking them off at night to be much of a burden. I never found putting my wallet into my pocket in the morning or putting it back on the sideboard at night to be a problem. I also never found it to be a problem to put on my pistol in the morning and take it off at night. It seemed to simplify my self defense plan greatly. I never once had to think about running to my gun or someone getting my gun and having an accident. He said something like, yeah but you're a cop. Like that explained it all and he couldn't do the same as a civilian.

I suspect us dumb humans do things like this because we don't want to be bothered and the threat is not real to us. It's something that just happens on the telly.

[11B10]

Two weeks ago, I had just showered and got dressed, including my usual gear (see post #36) when my wife says " somebody rang the doorbell and is still out there." I looked, saw one black male (20's), and one white female (20's) at the end of my front walk (10 yards), clipboards in hand. I went to the door and with a smile (standard procedure for me), asked if I could help them, through the door. The female began a very articulate spiel, closing the distance between us until she was nearly on the porch. Smiling, she said that we had received a notice with our last ppl bill that she needed to COME INSIDE (emphasis hers) and discuss with us. Her line was so good, I imagine she'd either done this before, legit, or trained to do it. I turned, and my wife shook her head. This had smelled bad right away, and now, the combination of my wife's reaction (she doesn't miss anything) and the rapid approach by the female moved me from yellow to orange. I told them we had not received a notice, but would check online, thank you very much. Now the black male begins, walking towards me, smiling and saying "we'll check our records too, but I'm sure your won't mind me using your bathroom." Now in condition red, I said "yes, I DO mind." He kept walking, almost at the porch, so I went to my version of command voice, weak side arm up, hand spread at chest level, right hand almost into the draw grip, and opened up the volume: "Yes, I DO mind!" This stopped him. His smile was replaced with a frown, he shrugged, turned and walked away. It's obvious what these two were up to - first gain entry, one distracts while the other "uses the bathroom." They did all the right things - made and kept eye contact; smiled a lot; didn't lose their composure. It's easy to see how elderly and infirms, even just trusting people, could be fooled.

[1slow]

I like S'narc's version of:
1) Hey buddy stop there please.
2) Back Up !
3) BACK THE F*** UP !

Have a plan if they do not comply.

Also his +1 rule: there is one + more attacker and one + more weapon than you are aware of.

Cutting a hard angle while observing the original people helps to not get blindsided.

[JustOneGun]

I like S'narc's version of:
1) Hey buddy stop there please.
2) Back Up !
3) BACK THE F*** UP !

Have a plan if they do not comply.

Also his +1 rule: there is one + more attacker and one + more weapon than you are aware of.

Cutting a hard angle while observing the original people helps to not get blindsided.


I like a version of that. I apply it with the old, Ask them (if there's time), Tell them (if there's time), Make them(or physically act in some way.)

You hit on a good point. There is always the movement before, during and after the incident. We gun folks often concentrate only on the middle movement.

[Cypher]

This might be a misquote but I'm pretty sure Tamara said in her blog it's not so much that I carry a gun at home as it is and I just carry a gun.

I carry it home 1% for the just in case and 99% because if I have to go walk the dogs I don't have to stop and put my gun on. If my wife sends me to the store for milk, I don't have to stop and put on my gun.

[Cypher]

I live in an apartment so I don't have the outside yard work and I don't generally have the same type of solicitors it most of you do but even though my apartments aren't bad we're right across the street from some public housing apartments that are horrendous.

I was going to work one night at 11:30 and I had two guys walk around the building and start trying to set me up. One of them was actually dumb enough to ask me if I was going fishing. Now mind you I'm not a cop but I'm an armed security guard my uniform looks an awful lot like a police uniform. Plus the easiest way to carry my body armor to the car is to put it on. So I'm sitting there full uniform clearly armed and these idiots are asking me if I'm going fishing in the middle of the night.

As soon as they walked around the corner of the building I dropped everything in my hands and put my back against the car and turned to face them. As I said one asks are you going fishin and the other one starts to split up and get around the side of me. At that point I wasn't having any I looked at the guy and told him to leave the property. He was actually dumb enough to take a step towards me and I undid the retention hood on my gun. That's when he got the idea that he might be making a mistake and they both turned around and headed straight off property

[HCM]

Two weeks ago, I had just showered and got dressed, including my usual gear (see post #36) when my wife says " somebody rang the doorbell and is still out there." I looked, saw one black male (20's), and one white female (20's) at the end of my front walk (10 yards), clipboards in hand. I went to the door and with a smile (standard procedure for me), asked if I could help them, through the door. The female began a very articulate spiel, closing the distance between us until she was nearly on the porch. Smiling, she said that we had received a notice with our last ppl bill that she needed to COME INSIDE (emphasis hers) and discuss with us. Her line was so good, I imagine she'd either done this before, legit, or trained to do it. I turned, and my wife shook her head. This had smelled bad right away, and now, the combination of my wife's reaction (she doesn't miss anything) and the rapid approach by the female moved me from yellow to orange. I told them we had not received a notice, but would check online, thank you very much. Now the black male begins, walking towards me, smiling and saying "we'll check our records too, but I'm sure your won't mind me using your bathroom." Now in condition red, I said "yes, I DO mind." He kept walking, almost at the porch, so I went to my version of command voice, weak side arm up, hand spread at chest level, right hand almost into the draw grip, and opened up the volume: "Yes, I DO mind!" This stopped him. His smile was replaced with a frown, he shrugged, turned and walked away. It's obvious what these two were up to - first gain entry, one distracts while the other "uses the bathroom." They did all the right things - made and kept eye contact; smiled a lot; didn't lose their composure. It's easy to see how elderly and infirms, even just trusting people, could be fooled.

My question - did you call the police ? Even is nothing illegal actually occurred due to you "seeing it early" many others won't be so lucky. A "suspicious persons" call gives the police reason to at least contact and ID these two and can be key to solving what ever mischief they have already been up to.

[Beat Trash]

I like S'narc's version of:
1) Hey buddy stop there please.
2) Back Up !
3) BACK THE F*** UP !

Have a plan if they do not comply.

Also his +1 rule: there is one + more attacker and one + more weapon than you are aware of.

Cutting a hard angle while observing the original people helps to not get blindsided.

At my age and with my love and admiration for humanity, I just go to #3. "Get the f**k off of my lawn..."

[psalms144.1]

A couple of weeks back, my daughter was out to dinner with her friend and her friend's grandfather (a retired NYPD guy and real salt of the earth). Per my SOP, I had been armed all day, but, around 7 PM, decided to jump on the elliptical and get some sweat on. Did my time on the gay glide, and had just gotten off, sweaty as all hell, when my daughter called the house in a panic. She tells my wife that some "crazy guy" has been following their car back from dinner, honking his horn and flashing his lights, and they had just turned onto our street. I live in a very "off the beaten path" neighborhood, so, for someone to follow their car into it required four or five deliberate turns off the nearest main road.

So there I am, in sweaty gym shorts, tank top and sneakers, going out the front door as the friends Grandfather pulls up and the other car follows - now no longer flashing lights, but clearly following. And I'm sitting there thinking about all the folks who have reason to wish me and mine harm, and the fact that my guns are all locked up.

The other car sped up and went past before I could get a plate (forgot my spectacles inside the house as well), turned right at the next corner (a dead end cul-de-sac), flipped a bitch and took off the other way.

So, now I hit the elliptical with my G19 in a Dagga-Boy approved fanny pack hanging off the back of the machine. Anything goes "bump" it's a question of a couple of seconds to be ready. Lesson learned.

[LSP552]

A couple of weeks back, my daughter was out to dinner with her friend and her friend's grandfather (a retired NYPD guy and real salt of the earth). Per my SOP, I had been armed all day, but, around 7 PM, decided to jump on the elliptical and get some sweat on. Did my time on the gay glide, and had just gotten off, sweaty as all hell, when my daughter called the house in a panic. She tells my wife that some "crazy guy" has been following their car back from dinner, honking his horn and flashing his lights, and they had just turned onto our street. I live in a very "off the beaten path" neighborhood, so, for someone to follow their car into it required four or five deliberate turns off the nearest main road.

So there I am, in sweaty gym shorts, tank top and sneakers, going out the front door as the friends Grandfather pulls up and the other car follows - now no longer flashing lights, but clearly following. And I'm sitting there thinking about all the folks who have reason to wish me and mine harm, and the fact that my guns are all locked up.

The other car sped up and went past before I could get a plate (forgot my spectacles inside the house as well), turned right at the next corner (a dead end cul-de-sac), flipped a bitch and took off the other way.

So, now I hit the elliptical with my G19 in a Dagga-Boy approved fanny pack hanging off the back of the machine. Anything goes "bump" it's a question of a couple of seconds to be ready. Lesson learned.

I started keeping a fanny pack as a go bag about 1980 while working narcotics. I came in one day just to catch up on reports. I was wearing a mode 38 Bodyguard (the real one) under a shirt and a couple of speed strips in my pocket. Road with a couple of other guys for lunch, leaving my real guns in my unit.

An hour later I'm on the edge of a cane field with a rifle-armed attempted murderer inside somewhere. Very valuable lesson that day. I always have a bag with a real gun available now. My ego would say I was more dangerous with the model 38 than most of my peers with a 4" 66....but still

[JustOneGun]

A couple of weeks back, my daughter was out to dinner with her friend and her friend's grandfather (a retired NYPD guy and real salt of the earth). Per my SOP, I had been armed all day, but, around 7 PM, decided to jump on the elliptical and get some sweat on. Did my time on the gay glide, and had just gotten off, sweaty as all hell, when my daughter called the house in a panic. She tells my wife that some "crazy guy" has been following their car back from dinner, honking his horn and flashing his lights, and they had just turned onto our street. I live in a very "off the beaten path" neighborhood, so, for someone to follow their car into it required four or five deliberate turns off the nearest main road.

So there I am, in sweaty gym shorts, tank top and sneakers, going out the front door as the friends Grandfather pulls up and the other car follows - now no longer flashing lights, but clearly following. And I'm sitting there thinking about all the folks who have reason to wish me and mine harm, and the fact that my guns are all locked up.

The other car sped up and went past before I could get a plate (forgot my spectacles inside the house as well), turned right at the next corner (a dead end cul-de-sac), flipped a bitch and took off the other way.

So, now I hit the elliptical with my G19 in a Dagga-Boy approved fanny pack hanging off the back of the machine. Anything goes "bump" it's a question of a couple of seconds to be ready. Lesson learned.


What, you don't exercise with your pistol on? (I kid, I kid).

I usually just pretend that the elliptical or treadmill drink holder is my field expedient holster and put my holstered pistol in there.

As an aside, don't go to Ireland and use the term Fanny pack. My brother found out in a rather embarrassing way that in Ireland it is akin to asking for an, "Ass pack". Apparently a fanny pack in Ireland is called a bum bag. Go figure.

[blues]

What, you don't exercise with your pistol on? (I kid, I kid).

I usually just pretend that the elliptical or treadmill drink holder is my field expedient holster and put my holstered pistol in there.

As an aside, don't go to Ireland and use the term Fanny pack. My brother found out in a rather embarrassing way that in Ireland it is akin to asking for an, "Ass pack". Apparently a fanny pack in Ireland is called a bum bag. Go figure.

Ahem, in some places, (Britain for one), it's not the ass that it refers to but the female genitalia.


ETA:


noun plural -nies slang. taboo , British. the female genitals. ... ▶ USAGE Despite the theory that this word derives from the name 'Fanny', its use in British English is still considered taboo by many people, and is likely to cause offence. In the US the word refers to the buttocks.
Fanny definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/fanny

[VT1032]

My dad had a close call a few weeks ago that got me thinking. He was sitting there watching TV around 10pm or so and heard a loud thump at the front door. He went over and found a VERY intoxicated individual trying to kick his door in. He told him through the door that no one was home and the guy told him to fuck himself and to let him in. My dad's not a gun guy, but at this point had the good sense to arm himself and retrieved his SR1911 feedway stoppage machine loaded with ball ammo from under the bed and also called 911. By the time he made it back downstairs, the door was starting to give way, so he quickly braced himself against the door while talking to 911 with one hand and holding the gun with another. Eventually, the guy left after about 20 minutes, and the police eventually showed up and found him a few blocks away. He went in the drunk tank and was released the next morning.

All told, there was pretty bad damage to the door, with the entire frame kicked out of the wall several inches. Had he not held the door shut, I'm convinced the guy would have gotten in, but at the same time, the thought of standing there, holding a door makes me cringe. What if the guy had been armed? Monday morning quarterbacking, I can't help but think that I would have handled it very differently, but that my way would have ended up with a dead dude at the foot of my stairs after he got in. Definitely got my lizard brain going...

He didn't learn anything from it unfortunately. Instead of taking the time to install solid doors and a camera system, he remounted the same flimsy ass door and went on with his life.

[RJ]

Ahem, in some places, (Britain for one), it's not the ass that it refers to but the female genitalia.


ETA:

You also want to make sure you give your "V for Victory" hand sign the right way round. :cool:

[HCM]

My dad had a close call a few weeks ago that got me thinking. He was sitting there watching TV around 10pm or so and heard a loud thump at the front door. He went over and found a VERY intoxicated individual trying to kick his door in. He told him through the door that no one was home and the guy told him to fuck himself and to let him in. My dad's not a gun guy, but at this point had the good sense to arm himself and retrieved his SR1911 feedway stoppage machine loaded with ball ammo from under the bed and also called 911. By the time he made it back downstairs, the door was starting to give way, so he quickly braced himself against the door while talking to 911 with one hand and holding the gun with another. Eventually, the guy left after about 20 minutes, and the police eventually showed up and found him a few blocks away. He went in the drunk tank and was released the next morning.

All told, there was pretty bad damage to the door, with the entire frame kicked out of the wall several inches. Had he not held the door shut, I'm convinced the guy would have gotten in, but at the same time, the thought of standing there, holding a door makes me cringe. What if the guy had been armed? Monday morning quarterbacking, I can't help but think that I would have handled it very differently, but that my way would have ended up with a dead dude at the foot of my stairs after he got in. Definitely got my lizard brain going...

He didn't learn anything from it unfortunately. Instead of taking the time to install solid doors and a camera system, he remounted the same flimsy ass door and went on with his life.

Why didnt the cops charge the drunk with criminal mischief for damaging the door ?

Even if the guy got time served, your dad could have gotten restitution ordered for the cost of the door.

[VT1032]

Why didnt the cops charge the drunk with criminal mischief for damaging the door ?

My dad never pressed charges. Turns out said drunk lives a few blocks away and my dad didn't want any trouble in the future. I thought he should, but I can see his point too.

[Robert Mitchum]

A good friend who I worked with in the DOC .. once went home from a night out and found someone in his house.
He totally beat the shit out of the guy .. but he had a few to many drinks and was at his neighbors house not his.
This was when he returned home from Viet Nam so the Cops where cool about it and so was the neighbor.
Being a Tunnel Rat than coming back to the States and having a few drinks was not a good mix for him.