My Experience with SOE

[ottadad]

I ordered a belt and admin pouch from Special Operation Equipment. I had heard really great things about them and was excited to try some of their gear. They advertised 8-12 week lead times for their gear.

My order was received on 11/30/2015.

After 12 weeks I reached out to them a couple times asking for an update (I wanted the gear for some classes).

Today marks the 20th week since my order was received. I emailed them again through their website and this time attached an email to John himself. Read his response below: (sorry for the language)

[Luke]

I hope you post this all over the web and it goes viral. That is INSANE.

[BCL]

7001

http://www.bbb.org/memphis/business-reviews/survival-products-and-supplies/original-soe-gear-in-camden-tn-44044555#reasonrating

[HopetonBrown]

I hope you post this all over the web and it goes viral. That is INSANE.
He has a YouTube channel and Facebook page full of these types of messages. He revels in it.

[HCM]

He has a YouTube channel and Facebook page full of these types of messages. He revels in it.

The OP or the SOE gear guy?

[rob_s]

He has a YouTube channel and Facebook page full of these types of messages. He revels in it.

Exactly.

Don't wrassle a pig, you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it.

I would also say, don't send people silly threats like "I'm going to tell your mom", but that seems self evident now.

[DocGKR]

And this behavior from John Willis surprises you?

It is not like this is something new or unusual...

http://legacy.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/northcounty/20020521-9999_1m21guns.html

[HCM]

And this behavior from John Willis surprises you?

It is not like this is something new or unusual...

http://legacy.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/northcounty/20020521-9999_1m21guns.html

That's some Rick James shit right there !

[PNWTO]

This isn't the first time I've heard of this kind of treatment. Shameful.

[ottadad]

It's not "I'm going to tell your mom" type behavior. It's, "hey you took a bunch of my money and did nothing for 20 weeks and won't get back to me so I'm trying to figure out what on earth to do about it" sort of behavior.

[matt7184]

Not surprised at all. Him and the Yeager clan are a bunch of morons. Vote with your wallet.

[HopetonBrown]

The OP or the SOE gear guy?
SOE. He's had his Facebook page closed down before. His YouTube channel is full of rants on customers.

https://youtu.be/obpkAaVCC9w

I'm sorry the OP hadn't got the memo.

[HopetonBrown]

It's not "I'm going to tell your mom" type behavior. It's, "hey you took a bunch of my money and did nothing for 20 weeks and won't get back to me so I'm trying to figure out what on earth to do about it" sort of behavior.

I'm not sure why you thought ratting him out to the BBB was going to improve your situation. Did you order some weird combo like Kryptek Yeti with zombie green stitching?

I wanted a micro 12 gauge rig for a Louis Awerbuck shotgun class in early 2013. I messaged SOE saying I needed it for a specific date and asked if I would get it in time. This was before I ordered. Jon Willis messaged me rather quickly and said they were making them now and it would ship out quickly. I did get it in time for the class.

Looking just now through my email I placed another order for some shotgun cards, a belt and Peltor head wrap 8/23/13. I see it shipped 8/27/13.

Later I became aware of his online rants and boasting about his cars and watches. I now give other companies (Extreme Gear Labs, Tactical Tailor, Ares Gear, TYR) my business.

[ottadad]

Glade you've had a good experience Hopeton. I ordered a riggers belt and admin pouch in plain jane coyote brown. And frankly I'm glad I mentioned the BBB... at least it finally got SOE to respond to my email. It was a last resort as I had emailed them multiple times prior. Not sure what else there was for me to do. I'm not just going to order something and just say, "send it whenever and charge me whenever your want." Something had to be done.

[Kyle Reese]

Why anyone gives SOE their business is beyond me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Cookie Monster]

I stopped getting there stuff a few years ago, I'd love to get another vehicle med kit.

Quality product but I don't need to support his antics and his company's total lack of being responsive and not knowing if you will ever get a product.

I would just make believe the money burned in a fire and move on.

[Jay585]

Reading that reminds me of Lyle McDonald (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/). Someone would ask an innocent question and he'd just explode at the poor guy.

Turns out he had some sort of bipolar thing. Wonder if Willis is the same.

[43Under]

Wow. I usually consider myself pretty clued in on the crazy companies out there, but had no idea SOE had such a rep. I just bought a couple of shotgun cards and got them within a couple of weeks. I only got theirs because most other companies seem to make 5 or 7 shell versions, and I wanted a 6 shell version.

Though my experience was positive, I must say that seeing this BS makes me highly unlikely to purchase from them again. The thought that I'd be treated like this doesn't sit well with me.

[Kirk]

In my business, I deal with crazy clients all the time (opposite of this situation). However, no matter how crazy the client, the threat of litigation and getting legal involved gets everyone's attention.

He has a "tough guy" facade, but if threatened with legal action, you'd get his attention. The BBB thing didn't work because he doesn't belong.

He's seriously a POS. I hate that he even sales any of his overpriced crap.

[ottadad]

Well... the irony of the whole thing is it turns out the BBB thing did work. My order shipped within a few minutes of me mentioning them, and it didn't ship the multiple times I contacted SOE before. I ordered from them on recommendation from a friend, obviously some people are very satisfied with their product. But the risk of a company taking your money and saying "no refunds, and we will ship you something whenever we want and after you've emailed us a few times" just isn't worth it.

[Default.mp3]

But the risk of a company taking your money and saying "no refunds, and we will ship you something whenever we want and after you've emailed us a few times" just isn't worth it.This is why I pay with a credit card, so that I have the ability to dispute charges. IIRC, AMEX has a 60 day window, which starts after the promised delivery date, rather than the date of purchase.

[BillSWPA]

When something gets so ridiculous that it cannot be worked out with the business, I have found the consumer protection division of the state attorney general, office to be helpful. They will generally try to mediate a settlement for non-criminal business issues, but if something does cross the line into criminal, they will prosecute. Either way, a letter from that office gets people's attention.

As a business owner, I find it amazing that someone can stay in business with that attitude towards his customers.

[wsr]

I'll just leave this here

An Oceanside businessman was charged in San Diego federal court yesterday with illegally possessing 19 guns as a convicted felon.
http://legacy.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/northcounty/20020521-9999_1m21guns.html

[CS Tactical]

I'll just leave this here

http://legacy.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/northcounty/20020521-9999_1m21guns.html

Doc Robert's beat you to the punch :cool:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19942-My-Experience-with-SOE&p=428552&viewfull=1#post428552

[wsr]

Doc Robert's beat you to the punch :cool:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19942-My-Experience-with-SOE&p=428552&viewfull=1#post428552

Story of my life

[LOKNLOD]

I have to admit I chuckled at the juxtapostion of the sig line "please follow us on facebook" right after the "go fuck yerself".

[Lost River]

The guy sounds like a typical loudmouth felon, who talks tough, and acts macho, but when it is face to face/knuckle up time, he turns into a meek little beta male, who turns around, puts his hands behind his back, and spreads his feet, toes out...

In all seriousness, I don't care if he is the sole producer of unicorn tears and good idea fairy dust, I would not give him a penny of my money.

[3-7-77]

Willis and Yeager are cut from the same cloth...Mexican truck stop single ply toilet paper cloth.

[SLG]

I would love to add something to this thread, but, really, what's the point. I try not to do business with felon's, regardless of how many times their felon friends scream they were wronged. Too many non felons out there, making good stuff, not doing roids or whatever the HGH is called these days.

[RJ]

OP - Sorry for your loss. Thanks for sharing your story. I was not aware of this company's reputation, but I am now.




I would just make believe the money burned in a fire and move on.

This sounds like the best course of action.

[RichY]

I bought from SOE twice in the past with no issue. I was unaware of all of this , but now that I know, he won't be getting any more money from me.

[1slow]

When I was at the Carbine Summit in TN some years ago.

I gave SOE a check for about $800 for some gear. I tries to contact several times. No gear, no money.

I was stupidly trusting. I should have known when he had me write the check out to his wife!

[SLG]

When I was at the Carbine Summit in TN some years ago.

I gave SOE a check for about $800 for some gear. I tries to contact several times. No gear, no money.

I was stupidly trusting. I should have known when he had me write the check out to his wife!

It's a thug life yo.

[Drew78]

What a bunch of douche bags. Thanks for the heads up.

[DocGKR]

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/investigations/MailFraud/fraudschemes/GetWhatYouOrdered.aspx

[HopetonBrown]

I'm sure Jon Willis will be extra annoying now that he's working on losing his pear shape and wearing extra smedium graphic tees. Kinda like another Camden TN guy.

[LittleLebowski]

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_109/929579_John_Willis__OSOE.html

[Irelander]

I bought a couple of their camera/bino straps and think they are great. However, I was always put off by the profanity included in the package. When my father-in-law (pastor) wanted one of the camera straps I ordered it for him and shipped to me.

I don't think I'll order from them again, especially after seeing this thread. Knowing that a business treats their customers like this is appalling. I agree...vote with your wallet.

[rob_s]

It's not "I'm going to tell your mom" type behavior. It's, "hey you took a bunch of my money and did nothing for 20 weeks and won't get back to me so I'm trying to figure out what on earth to do about it" sort of behavior.

"mom", "BBB", whatever. It's naively childish, regardless of what you call it.

[rob_s]

I would love to add something to this thread, but, really, what's the point. I try not to do business with felon's, regardless of how many times their felon friends scream they were wronged. Too many non felons out there, making good stuff, not doing roids or whatever the HGH is called these days.

one thousand times likes.

With all the options for trainers, makers, etc. it never ceases to amaze me that people will choose to do business with these guys.

[rob_s]

Something had to be done.

How'd that work out for you?

[Default.mp3]

one thousand times likes.

With all the options for trainers, makers, etc. it never ceases to amaze me that people will choose to do business with these guys.As noted by quite a few posters in this thread, not everyone is aware of Willis's criminal background; I'm sure this extends to quite a number of vendors and makers. How many people do you think are aware of, say, Coelho's issues with Triton Ammunition, now that Coelho's hit it big with Panteao?

[rob_s]

As noted by quite a few posters in this thread, not everyone is aware of Willis's criminal background; I'm sure this extends to quite a number of vendors and makers. How many people do you think are aware of, say, Coelho's issues with Triton Ammunition, now that Coelho's hit it big with Panteao?

I guess that in the information age, I would at least google "originalsoegear" prior to buying from an unknown entity.
http://bfy.tw/56cc

[HopetonBrown]

I don't know why he'd care about a BBB complaint, it's a toothless organization and he already has an F with them.


While I agree with you Rob, and in the OP's shoes I wouldn't have threatened to "file a claim with the BBB" either, as he states it appears to have worked.

Its also possible that John was, besides being an asshole, telling the truth and the BBB threat email was the first one he received and, despite his antics, took care of it. Or maybe, it was just time for his order to ship.

[Default.mp3]

I guess that in the information age, I would at least google "originalsoegear" prior to buying from an unknown entity.
http://bfy.tw/56ccWell, part of the problem is that SOE is not a straight-up unknown; they've a solid reputation in terms of actual quality of gear, from my understanding, it's the CS side of things that things go down the shitter. People will probably Google a company they've never heard off, and look for reviews and stuff, but there are plenty of rave reviews for SOE, enough that I think it's understandable that for people that don't follow the industry drama closely that they simply don't notice the fact that Willis has terrible CS; simply being an outspoken asshole isn't an instant indicator of that, as evidenced by Mark Larue's antics (and discounting the various issues with the launches of Larue's complete rifle line). And even if they were aware of the shit CS and Willis's general failure to be a decent human being, that doesn't mean that they'd be aware he's an actual felon.

Hell, your LMGTFY link turns up plenty of glowing reviews near the top.

[ottadad]

I bought from them based purely on recommendation from a friend. A quick search mostly confirmed what I had heard, that it was quality gear from a company that was part of the shooting community. I had heard he had been in jail, but thought he had supposedly turned a new leaf.

It's also possible the order shipped after my email was received through the "Contact US" portion of SOE's website (which had twice before ignored my emails.) I sent a copy both there and to John correctly. I hadn't emailed John directly before because I thought maybe he'd have something better to do than read customers inquiries as to their nearly 5 month old orders. Tracking down the CEO of a business every time I have a problem with that business just doesn't seem pragmatic to me.

But anyways, c'est la vie, guess I'll just be more careful next time. Buying from a supposedly reformed criminal and proclaimed member of the gun community didn't live up to what I thought it might be.

New rule of thumb: if they can't legally own a gun, don't buy anything gun related from them.

[Trooper224]

One simple Youtube video featuring John Willis was enough to convince me I didn't need to do business with SOE. Many will buy quality gear no matter who it's coming from, because their personal satisfaction is all they care about. In my opinion, life is too short to support ass holes, especially a raging sphincter like John Willis.

[DocGKR]

Don't trust Felons...it is that simple.

[Dagga Boy]

Don't trust Felons...it is that simple.

I've know Willis since he was sewing gear for me out of his mom's garage. I was deeply involved with a lot of the folks when John got arrested. Kind of more to it than meets the eye, but he screwed up on the guns as nobody knew he had a felony dope case as a juvi. Why LE was involved was really a b.s. deal. John went to prison owing me some significant money. He had an opportunity to make it right when he got out, and essentially treated me like many he owes money or gear to....you are an asshole for expecting him to live up to his commitments. Ending up with Yeager is perfect. You want to do business with unstable assholes who have no emotional control and exhibit signs of serious issues....sorry if that bites you. Yeager, Willis and their circle are well known entities. If you question their actions in anyway, they go high order.

With that said. I have one felon friend. He is also in a related business. I judge folks by their actions. In most cases many prior felons somehow feel a need to act like and asshole, and live their thug lifestyle. If you see this...move on.

[That Guy]

I for one would like to thank ottadad for posting about his experience. I had been aware of the company before, but had no idea this sort of thing was going on. I thought it was a reputable company with quality products. It is possible he saved me some headache in the future.

[Trooper224]

Don't trust Felons...it is that simple.

I've lived my entire life managing to avoid truck with felons, other than those I've arrested. I haven't found that a hard thing to accomplish. Then again, I'm not a social butterfly with a pathological need for approval, so I do fine without a large circle of peeps and have always preferred to have a few good ones instead. I've known a few people who've done time and turned themselves around. Strangely enough, they accomplished that without the need for progressive hand holding social programs. They simply went to prison, decided that wasn't where they wanted to be and unfucked themselves. However, those people are in the distinct minority, a tiger not changing it's stripes and all that.

[Tamara]

Hell, your LMGTFY link turns up plenty of glowing reviews near the top.

Some people eat that shit up. The guy who made their dookickey or dingus is bein' a badass and, since they've done business with him and will do business again, some of that badass reflects on them.
I wonder if they don body paint and those beer can/swirly straw hats and throw popcorn while they're cheering his YouTube rants?

[RJ]

There must by some psychological term for transference of badassery.

As in, if you buy the same isht bought by the btdt tactical operator guys with beards, it makes *you* a bearded tactical operator, too.

Edit: it's not 'cognitive dissonance', in which your self-worth is tied to the stuff you buy being 'good'. But close...unfortunately I napped through much of PSYC 101 as it didn't have to do with math...:(

[Joe in PNG]

There must by some psychological term for transference of badassery.

As in, if you buy the same isht bought by the btdt tactical operator guys with beards, it makes *you* a bearded tactical operator, too.

Edit: it's not 'cognitive dissonance', in which your self-worth is tied to the stuff you buy being 'good'. But close...unfortunately I napped through much of PSYC 101 as it didn't have to do with math...:(

There's also a related psychobablle thing where acting Rude, Crude, & Lewd gives an appearance of basic honesty.

[Trooper224]

There must by some psychological term for transference of badassery.

As in, if you buy the same isht bought by the btdt tactical operator guys with beards, it makes *you* a bearded tactical operator, too.

Edit: it's not 'cognitive dissonance', in which your self-worth is tied to the stuff you buy being 'good'. But close...unfortunately I napped through much of PSYC 101 as it didn't have to do with math...:(

It's seen in every walk of life. Sports fans wearing team jersey's so they can feel like part of the team, white kids in suburbia dressing like gangbangers...............

[El Cid]

I for one would like to thank ottadad for posting about his experience. I had been aware of the company before, but had no idea this sort of thing was going on. I thought it was a reputable company with quality products. It is possible he saved me some headache in the future.

I'm right there with you. Had no idea it was anything but a maker of quality gear. I will certainly make sure to spread the word though. Hope they go bankrupt.

[rob_s]

Well, part of the problem is that SOE is not a straight-up unknown; they've a solid reputation in terms of actual quality of gear, from my understanding, it's the CS side of things that things go down the shitter. People will probably Google a company they've never heard off, and look for reviews and stuff, but there are plenty of rave reviews for SOE, enough that I think it's understandable that for people that don't follow the industry drama closely that they simply don't notice the fact that Willis has terrible CS; simply being an outspoken asshole isn't an instant indicator of that, as evidenced by Mark Larue's antics (and discounting the various issues with the launches of Larue's complete rifle line). And even if they were aware of the shit CS and Willis's general failure to be a decent human being, that doesn't mean that they'd be aware he's an actual felon.

Hell, your LMGTFY link turns up plenty of glowing reviews near the top.

And yet there are plenty of other companies that make identical,mid not just functionally identical, gear WITHOUT all the other bad comments.

Mostly what happens in cases like this is the guy has his mind made up to buy a thing from a dude and THEN goes googling, at which point the first ten results could be "dude is a shitbag, thing is garbage!" but guy winds up buying thing from dude anyway because "well, there are good reviews too".

When it comes to buying from, say, Glock you're not really buying a thing from a dude, so only the thing really matters. When it comes to buying from a small company you're buying both the thing AND the dude so it's prudent to do a little more digging.

But, if guy wants to ignore all, that and things go badly, the best course of action is to simply cancel the charge with the credit card company. Threats, especially in business, are for losers. And by that I mean, if you've had to resort to threats, you've already lost.

[Wendell]

I've lived my entire life managing to avoid truck with felons, other than those I've arrested. I haven't found that a hard thing to accomplish. Then again, I'm not a social butterfly with a pathological need for approval, so I do fine without a large circle of peeps and have always preferred to have a few good ones instead. I've known a few people who've done time and turned themselves around. Strangely enough, they accomplished that without the need for progressive hand holding social programs. They simply went to prison, decided that wasn't where they wanted to be and unfucked themselves. However, those people are in the distinct minority, a tiger not changing it's stripes and all that.

Just goes to show you how ignorant I am. I honestly thought that EVERYONE knew about this, sort of like how EVERYONE knows about Yeager and his antics. I assume way too much.

I'm reminded of this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE4hEMBYbTI).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE4hEMBYbTI

[Savage Hands]

I had no idea about SOE's reputation and history either...

[breakingtime91]

I have a friend who is squared away that finds his antics hilarious.. I am quite different and refuse to purchase from them because the guy is a felon and fucking idiot. I would never abide allowing a grown man talk to me in such a fashion. no sir :cool:

[BobLoblaw]

What a douche canoe.. I hope it's on film when karma circles back.

[Chuck Whitlock]

As noted by quite a few posters in this thread, not everyone is aware of Willis's criminal background; I'm sure this extends to quite a number of vendors and makers. How many people do you think are aware of, say, Coelho's issues with Triton Ammunition, now that Coelho's hit it big with Panteao?

I was unaware of his criminal history, until now. Although I never dealt with SOE directly, I have purchased SOE products through other vendors both departmentally and personally. Stuff is/was well made, but not worth the baggage and drama.

[LittleLebowski]

Believe it or not, there are people who don't use the internet that much and don't Google everyone and everything they buy, jus' sayin' :D

Not me but I know plenty like this.

[BigT]

Did you Google me? What did you find out?

You've got a helluva baritone and the ladies loved you in the 70's

[LittleLebowski]

Did you Google me? What did you find out?

Quite a bit :(


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G5d8i74Wfk

[23JAZ]

So I'm glad SOE never replied to my email. http://ericgkirsch.com/tactical-prolapse-the-yeager-cult-and-my-sincere-apology-to-porn-star-buck-angel/

[Clusterfrack]

I don't understand why a bunch of people here are giving ottadad a hard time for trying to get his order filled. He was kind enough to share his experience with us, and I found it entertaining. Maybe it will help more folks avoid SOE and that's a good thing--right?

And what's wrong with making legal threats? It sure got things moving at SOE, even if the BBB can't really do anything.

[LittleLebowski]

So I'm glad SOE never replied to my email. http://ericgkirsch.com/tactical-prolapse-the-yeager-cult-and-my-sincere-apology-to-porn-star-buck-angel/

Isn't that the same guy that complains so much about other men's beards? He needs to take a relaxing vacation.

[Greg]

I would like to thank the OP as I'd never heard of SOE or the owner.