Problems reported with Lipseys Combat Operator 9mm

[JHC]

Regarding this pistol: http://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=SFPE9209LP

I've heard from two other forum members of issues with their guns and mine has not been flawless so a couple of us thought a thread to get this "on the board" was a good idea.

My copy is drop dead gorgeous. It also runs well with no malfs across 450 rounds so far. However, it's ejection pattern was water sprinkler like. Between 400 and 450 rds I started getting pelted pretty consistently with BTF. Also POI was dramatically below POA, and it appeared to me to have a significant vertical stringing of shots that I experienced and another very good shooter replicated; in the range of 6" vertical string below POA at 25 yards.

SA CS was very nice and assisted me with shipping it back to get checked out. It is enroute back to me now and the email notice I got to that effect included notes that they changed the rear sight and adjusted the extractor. It also mentioned a test target would be included with the pistol and I'm anxious to see that as I've not been able to shoot much in the way of a nice 25 yard group with it yet.

btw the trigger pull on mine measure 4.25 lbs on my scale and feels like it. Very nice. The recoil is minimal and it's a blast to shoot.

[Nephrology]

Sounds like you've been taken care of. Let us know how it performs when you get it back on to the range.

[guymontag]

Weren't there problems with the Warren 9MM's after ToddG's report? I remember problems in both finish and function reported on a 1911-centric forum.

I found it funny because I've seen the low end RO's run well in 9MM in USPSA. Oh well, I hope you were taken care of JHC - we'll find out when it's back in your Glock-loving hands.

[CDFIII]

I had to send mine back due to a broken ejector pin. Pin sheared in half and part of it fell out at the 500rd. mark during an inspection. Sent it back and it was repaired. No issues with ejection or accuracy so far. I've only put 200rds. Through it since it came back. SA paid the ticket both ways so that was a plus.

[VolGrad]

I'll post later from a computer. On my phone now. I'm getting ready to call and get a Return Authorization for mine.

Ran approx 150 rds yesterday. 124gr ball.

Erratic ejection
1 stovepipe
3 failure to return to battery
Shooting approx 4" low at 10 yards
Heavy trigger pull for a 1911 but haven't weighed it
Maybe not an issue but I can feel the entire cycling of the slide like it's in slow motion

Looms great though.

[VolGrad]

Looks. Not looms.

[psalms144.1]

Is there anyone else who sees the irony in JHC, who appears to be immune to BTF with his plethora of GLOCKs, is getting BTF from a high-ish end 1911? The gods are laughing somewhere...

[JHC]

Is there anyone else who sees the irony in JHC, who appears to be immune to BTF with his plethora of GLOCKs, is getting BTF from a high-ish end 1911? The gods are laughing somewhere...

Oh it darn sure wasn't lost on me! :eek:

This warn't no dribbling off the bill of my cap neither. This was wrist rocket action - center of forehead. LOL

[psalms144.1]

Oh it darn sure wasn't lost on me! :eek:

This warn't no dribbling off the bill of my cap neither. This was wrist rocket action - center of forehead. LOLIf I had a link to Bruce Willis in Die Hard "Welcome to the Party, pal!" I'd stick it in here now...

[Chef]

There is only one sure fire way to end problems with a 1911. But I'm not here to poke fun at people


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HCM]

JHC, Volgrad and myself have been trading messages about these.

I have about 250 rounds through mine with the following issues:

No malfunctions but the slide feels sluggish.

Trigger pull measures 5.5 lbs on a gauge but feels heavier. You can feel the trigger drag and there are drag marks on the sides of the trigger. I think both of these issues relate to the frame finish which I believe is cerakote rather than SA's usual AK.

Mine also hits low - though not as bad as Volgrad's - it hits just below the dot at 25 with ammo ranging from 115 to 147 grain.

My prior positive experience with my SA MC operator 45 influenced my purchase of the 9mm. I'm rather disappointed for a gun with an MSRP over $1700 and will be requesting an RMA as well.

[Drang]

If I had a link to Bruce Willis in Die Hard "Welcome to the Party, pal!" I'd stick it in here now...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD94dVu8lqQ

I have a meme, too... somewhere...

[VolGrad]

I just got off the phone with SA and have already printed a FedEx label. Mine begins its 2-4 week journey to the motherland tomorrow. I'm pretty pissed overall.

I actually have someone wanting to buy it or trade me for it but I can't in good conscience do it knowing what I know. Sucks too as I'm pissed enough to just wash my hands and walk away.

[VolGrad]

Forgot to add .... the CS rep I spoke with said she had not heard of any issues with these guns as they were brand new. She said she would pass the info along. I told her I had a buddy whose gun was en route back to him now with much the same issues as mine. She seemed unimpressed but did take care of my needs at the moment.

[VolGrad]

The note I put in the box included the following;

Issues;
• Erratic ejection – forward, sideways, in my face
• Sluggish slide – can feel the entire motion when it cycles
• Heavy trigger – not sure what they are supposed to measure at but this is heavy
• Over 150rds of 124gr ball ammo had multiple stovepipes & failures to return to battery (light touch to rear of slide would send it the rest of the way – this makes sense considering how sluggish the slide feels)
• POI is at least 4” low at 10yrds – consistently low, I didn’t try multiple distances

I went on to tell them I had high hopes for this my first SA 1911 but was sorely disappointed. As it is is a $1500 paperweight. I stated I have heard SA has excellent CS and hoped they could get me back up and running and make this gun the tack driver it should be.

If it comes back and is anything less than exciting to shoot I will probably cut my losses and dump it.

[HCM]

So I made a quick trip to the indoor range, with the Lipsey's gun and my MC operator 45. The lighting at the indoor range and my eyes are not the greatest combination.

I fired 50 rounds of Monarch brass, 115 grain FMJ and nine rounds of Speer gold.124 grain plus P. There were no malfunctions but I did get some brass to the face with the Monarch. I also noted some vertical stringing with the Monarch at 25 yards.

I was alternating between the Lipsey's gun and my MC operator in 45 to see how much it was user error. I did not note any vertical stringing with the 45.

The Lipseys gun at 25 yards. For some reason my pictures are rotated 90° left.
7011
7013

7012

[Trooper224]

Nine millimeter 1911's have always been problematic. You can get one to run with round nose ammo with some work, but I've never seen one that would run with any sense of reliability with hollow point ammo. With it's current popularity a lot of people are new to this particular rodeo. This is my shocked face.

[SLG]

Let me get this straight. You bought a gun called a "Combat Operator" and it is giving some problems? Inconceivable!

[SecondsCount]

The slides will feel sluggish on 5" 9mm pistols.

When it comes to accuracy, my Springfield Loaded 9mm is sensitive to different loadings and likes 124 much better than 115 grain ammo. Gun runs great with ball and most hollowpoints including Gold Dot but there are a couple bullet profiles that it doesn't like.

[joshs]

Nine millimeter 1911's have always been problematic. You can get one to run with round nose ammo with some work, but I've never seen one that would run with any sense of reliability with hollow point ammo. With it's current popularity a lot of people are new to this particular rodeo. This is my shocked face.

This one (http://pistol-training.com/archives/8464) worked ok.

[HCM]

Let me get this straight. You bought a gun called a "Combat Operator" and it is giving some problems? Inconceivable!

The worst part is, I had, of all things a Kimber 9 mm 1911 which actually ran and shot very well.

7018

[SLG]

The worst part is, I had, of all things a Kimber 9 mm 1911 which actually ran and shot very well.

7014

I would never admit in public that I like Kimber's, but I have 2 of their 1911's and they have both been fantastic. I've lost count of how many of their rifles I have or have had.

[Trooper224]

The worst part is, I had, of all things a Kimber 9 mm 1911 which actually ran and shot very well.

7018

I think Digiroc has now invaded this thread, posing as HCM.

[HCM]

I think Digiroc has now invaded this thread, posing as HCM.

I actually had three problematic Kimber 45's in a row. They were all accurate, but all had reliability problems. I didn't really want the camber 9 mm but it was the only 9 mm 1911 I could find at the time.

The Kimber 45 problems were also what lead me to get the MC operator 45. Maybe I just got lucky with that one but it's been accurate and very reliable straight out-of-the-box.

[farscott]

After having several 9x19 1911 pistols built, discussing the system with a really good smith, and loading/shooting lots of 9x19 ammo, I learned the following:

1) There is very little margin of error for the 9x19 in the 1911. Tolerance changes that are meaningless to the .45 ACP will induce issues with the 9x19. This includes friction from finishes, rough machining, and shooting detritus like unburned powder. 9x19 1911 pistols should be finished with a high lubricity finish. I have had good luck with hard chrome, NP3, and polished bluing and less luck with Parkerizing. Zero luck with my single experience with a shooting buddy's gun finished with Cerakote. This is part of the reason why some guns run with 13# springs and others need 10# springs with the same load.
2) The magazine design for the 9x19 1911 is not optimal because it promotes nose diving, especially from a fully-loaded magazine. Magazines and barrel ramp styles combine to make a gun very sensitive to magazine type. A 9x19 with a Colt barrel will likely need different magazines that one with a Wilson/Nowlin barrel due to how the bullet hits the ramp.
3) The 9x19 in the 1911 needs to be loaded long although Wilson Combat's latest magazine seems to reduce that requirement. I still have better luck loading 9x19 long.
4) The recoil impulse of the 9x19 is marginal for cycling the five-inch 1911 slide. This interacts with the recoil spring, mainspring, hammer, and firing pin stop.
5) The 9x19 1911 can be tuned for bullet mass/shape/velocity within a narrow window. It will be reliable within that range and not very reliable outside of it. For those used to a Glock 17 or HK P30 that runs with just about any 9x19 rounds, this is not that.
6) Special attention needs to be paid to the firing pin stop, hammer, and mainspring as these parts play a huge role in how fast the 1911 unlocks. A flat bottom firing pin stop should not be used as the firing pin stop needs as much leverage as possible on the hammer.

You have to be willing to fiddle with the 9x19 in the 1911 to keep it running. I have three I use, all of which see different loads and use different magazines.

[jh9]

The note I put in the box included the following;

Issues;
• Erratic ejection – forward, sideways, in my face
• Sluggish slide – can feel the entire motion when it cycles
• Heavy trigger – not sure what they are supposed to measure at but this is heavy
• Over 150rds of 124gr ball ammo had multiple stovepipes & failures to return to battery (light touch to rear of slide would send it the rest of the way – this makes sense considering how sluggish the slide feels)
• POI is at least 4” low at 10yrds – consistently low, I didn’t try multiple distances


Other than the POI issue and feeling sluggish this sounds like 3 of my last 4 Glocks... The fact that they're $500 pistols instead of $1500 pistols doesn't buy much with me since the time spent correcting and validating is worth more than the initial outlay. To say nothing of the ammo cost... Yes, it's irritating. Irritating is the new normal when buying new guns.

Other people said it, but I think it bears repeating: a 5" 9mm 1911 is going to feel "sluggish" unless you do something extreme with slide lightening. My 5" RO 9mm had a distinct period during recoil where I could almost feel the slide bottom out against the frame, sit there for a second, and then return to battery. My 4" RO compact 9mm feels much, much more normal.

My functional understanding of the 1911 is limited at best. But farscott mentioned some critical things I've heard over and over. The firing pin stop on a 9mm can't be squared off at the bottom. A slick finish helps a lot. And if your gun didn't come with these (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/832886/metalform-magazine-1911-government-commander-9mm-luger-9-round-stainless-steel-matte-flat-follower-welded-base-front-ramp-configuration) buy them. My 5" RO did but I have no idea how much / how often they change up the OEM magazines.

People that know more than me have made a big deal about not just the magazines but the front ramped 9 round Metalform 9mm magazines (and now I guess the new CMC 10 rounders) for me to notice. I know ETMs are the golden child and have a great reputation in .45, but I've yet to hear why the solution to 9mm nose dives is to just open up the front of the mag so the bullet can hit the feed ramp too low. To a Neanderthal like me the ramped design seems obvious. I'm keen to hear an alternate explanation, because it does seem more likely that it's me misunderstanding the situation than so many otherwise knowledgeable people keep buying a product that doesn't really fix the underlying issue. But, I digress.

Also, my ROC had a finish reamer put through it and it pulled out a bunch of metal. Several people on 1911forum had the same issue. So you might call and ask them to add that to the checklist too.

[JHC]

The slides will feel sluggish on 5" 9mm pistols.

When it comes to accuracy, my Springfield Loaded 9mm is sensitive to different loadings and likes 124 much better than 115 grain ammo. Gun runs great with ball and most hollowpoints including Gold Dot but there are a couple bullet profiles that it doesn't like.

Back before I had a 2nd shooter replicate some issues, I fired a couple magazines of Hornady 135 grain Critical Duty and it cycled more smoothly and exhibited much better groups. A couple thousand of those is pretty pricey. ;)

[JHC]

After having several 9x19 1911 pistols built, discussing the system with a really good smith, and loading/shooting lots of 9x19 ammo, I learned the following:

1) There is very little margin of error for the 9x19 in the 1911. Tolerance changes that are meaningless to the .45 ACP will induce issues with the 9x19. This includes friction from finishes, rough machining, and shooting detritus like unburned powder. 9x19 1911 pistols should be finished with a high lubricity finish. I have had good luck with hard chrome, NP3, and polished bluing and less luck with Parkerizing. Zero luck with my single experience with a shooting buddy's gun finished with Cerakote. This is part of the reason why some guns run with 13# springs and others need 10# springs with the same load.
2) The magazine design for the 9x19 1911 is not optimal because it promotes nose diving, especially from a fully-loaded magazine. Magazines and barrel ramp styles combine to make a gun very sensitive to magazine type. A 9x19 with a Colt barrel will likely need different magazines that one with a Wilson/Nowlin barrel due to how the bullet hits the ramp.
3) The 9x19 in the 1911 needs to be loaded long although Wilson Combat's latest magazine seems to reduce that requirement. I still have better luck loading 9x19 long.
4) The recoil impulse of the 9x19 is marginal for cycling the five-inch 1911 slide. This interacts with the recoil spring, mainspring, hammer, and firing pin stop.
5) The 9x19 1911 can be tuned for bullet mass/shape/velocity within a narrow window. It will be reliable within that range and not very reliable outside of it. For those used to a Glock 17 or HK P30 that runs with just about any 9x19 rounds, this is not that.
6) Special attention needs to be paid to the firing pin stop, hammer, and mainspring as these parts play a huge role in how fast the 1911 unlocks. A flat bottom firing pin stop should not be used as the firing pin stop needs as much leverage as possible on the hammer.

You have to be willing to fiddle with the 9x19 in the 1911 to keep it running. I have three I use, all of which see different loads and use different magazines.

OK then! I'm feeling pretty good now. It's run a couple 115, 124, 135 and 147 grain loads without a malf yet; so I have THAT going for me! Wilson and Chip McCormack mags all mixed together GTG.

[farscott]

OK then! I'm feeling pretty good now. It's run a couple 115, 124, 135 and 147 grain loads without a malf yet; so I have THAT going for me! Wilson and Chip McCormack mags all mixed together GTG.

That is a good sign. Do remember that 9x19 1911 magazines are essentially consumables. I go through them like crazy. In 2015, I think I "File 13'd" about twenty of them. I used to try and replace springs and followers, but it is not much more costly and less time consuming to just replace magazines.

[SecondsCount]

Back before I had a 2nd shooter replicate some issues, I fired a couple magazines of Hornady 135 grain Critical Duty and it cycled more smoothly and exhibited much better groups. A couple thousand of those is pretty pricey. ;)

I make my own ;)

[Jeep]

Let me get this straight. You bought a gun called a "Combat Operator" and it is giving some problems? Inconceivable!

To be fair, calling it the "Special Snowflake" might not have been good from a marketing standpoint.

[JHC]

I just took delivery of the return. Paperwork confirms "tuned extractor" and changed rear sight to .375 rear sight. Test target is recorded to have been shot at 25 yards and the 5 shot group appears just an inch above POA. Shot with Federal 124 grain it measures 2 1/8" center to center. Pressure is on now. I hope so. ;)

[Trooper224]

I actually had three problematic Kimber 45's in a row. They were all accurate, but all had reliability problems. I didn't really want the camber 9 mm but it was the only 9 mm 1911 I could find at the time.

The Kimber 45 problems were also what lead me to get the MC operator 45. Maybe I just got lucky with that one but it's been accurate and very reliable straight out-of-the-box.

Years ago, I had one of the early Kimbers, a basic "Custom" model. I didn't have any issues in the short time I had it other than the black oxide finish seeming to rub off without much effort. However, I could tell the quality of the small parts simply wasn't there and I knew I'd have problems down the road, so off it went. I see so many Kimbers choke up in my Monday night shooting league, regardless of caliber, that I wouldn't take one for free. At least none of them have gone full auto like a Taurus 1911 did about three weeks ago. I don't think you got lucky with the MC Operator. I think it's a pretty good pistol. I've had more than a handful of 1911's over the last thirty years and I've never encountered the mass of issues many seem to. Then again, I prefer to stick with five inch guns in .45acp so that has something to do with it. I've been contemplating a 9mm 1911 for use as a training pistol, for reasons of economy. Threads like this make me wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze.

[JHC]

Years ago, I had one of the early Kimbers, a basic "Custom" model. I didn't have any issues in the short time I had it other than the black oxide finish seeming to rub off without much effort. However, I could tell the quality of the small parts simply wasn't there and I knew I'd have problems down the road, so off it went. I see so many Kimbers choke up in my Monday night shooting league, regardless of caliber, that I wouldn't take one for free. At least none of them have gone full auto like a Taurus 1911 did about three weeks ago. I don't think you got lucky with the MC Operator. I think it's a pretty good pistol. I've had more than a handful of 1911's over the last thirty years and I've never encountered the mass of issues many seem to. Then again, I prefer to stick with five inch guns in .45acp so that has something to do with it. I've been contemplating a 9mm 1911 for use as a training pistol, for reasons of economy. Threads like this make me wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze.

I too never "got" the difficulty of getting a good 1911 as my 11 or 12 over the years were all good pistols. Mostly Colt Combat Cdrs and Government Models, with a single LW Commander, a USGI Ithaca, a SA Loaded, a TRP then the Sams Custom. All of them ran fine and one slide stop broke on one of the Combat Cdrs once.

[HCM]

To be fair, calling it the "Special Snowflake" might not have been good from a marketing standpoint.

It's not "the Combat Operator", it's "THE COMBAT OPERATOR!" you have to say it with violence of action.

[Trooper224]

I too never "got" the difficulty of getting a good 1911 as my 11 or 12 over the years were all good pistols. Mostly Colt Combat Cdrs and Government Models, with a single LW Commander, a USGI Ithaca, a SA Loaded, a TRP then the Sams Custom. All of them ran fine and one slide stop broke on one of the Combat Cdrs once.

In thirty years of using 1911's I've had one barrel bushing crack and one broken ejector, that's it. I don't count replaced extractors and firing pin stops, because those are wear items that "will" need to be replaced, not "if". None of mine were customs costing $3K, or lower tier examples like Taurii or Armscor. They've mostly been working Colt's and Springfields, with the exception of this one, a lone Kimber and a single Norinco. A couple of them I simply shot to extinction. None of them have been safe queens so I haven't experienced the finicky 1911 syndrome that so many others have. On the other hand, as previously stated, I've stayed with five inch guns in .45acp, so in that sense I've hedged my bets.

[Trooper224]

It's not "the Combat Operator", it's "THE COMBAT OPERATOR!" you have to say it with violence of action.

Now that you've put it like that I completely get it.

[jh9]

It's not "the Combat Operator", it's "THE COMBAT OPERATOR!" you have to say it with violence of action.

And then look into the camera your personal videographer is using, power stroke it and shoot a group ...off camera..at a target 10 feet away...

[Larry Sellers]

And then look into the camera your personal videographer is using, power stroke it and shoot a group ...off camera..at a target 10 feet away...

That's a thing now....I've seen it.

[VolGrad]

Mine just left town on a FedEx truck. I do hope they can get it working properly but as someone already said after reading this thread I am not sure it's worth it.

[JHC]

It's not "the Combat Operator", it's "THE COMBAT OPERATOR!" you have to say it with violence of action.

And to be fair the roll mark is only OPERATOR. ;)

Hang in there Vol. If it isn't lancing your face but running strong and hitting were it's pointed it's a screaming mass of fun.

[VolGrad]

And to be fair the roll mark is only OPERATOR. ;)

Hang in there Vol. If it isn't lancing your face but running strong and hitting were it's pointed it's a screaming mass of fun.

I was disappointed with the heavy trigger when I first picked it up. When I shot it and my shots were so far away from POA I was sorely disappointed. I mean I thought it might be me adjusting to the trigger and sights at first. Then I realized it wasn't me. I still second guessed myself and pulled out my carry G43 and drilled the small circles on the TLG targets. OK - so it's NOT me. I then started getting the FTRBs and the stovepipe. I was so pissed I immediately came home, cleaned it, took pics, and posted it for sale. I started feeling bad after sleeping on it and took the listing down the next day as I don't want to dump it on some chump. I'll wait until it gets back and decide what I want to do. I have a local buyer that was already PMing me wanting it baaaaaaad. I told him the deal and said I had to send it back to SA and if I got it back and it worked ... and I didn't keep it .... I'd PM him and give him first shot at it. Given the limited availability I should be able to get out from under it without losing any money. Mainly, I wanted a new gun. I missed having a 1911 but didn't want to get another .45acp. This one has turned me off though and now I'd almost just as soon get my money back out of it and buy something else to make me smile for a minute.

... maybe I need to give the P30 another shot. I wouldn't mind trying the baby version ... what is it the P30SK?

[Trooper224]

... maybe I need to give the P30 another shot. I wouldn't mind trying the baby version ... what is it the P30SK?

Or maybe an example of God's gun that isn't chambered in .380 longrifle. :p

[VolGrad]

Or maybe an example of God's gun that isn't chambered in .380 longrifle. :p

Nope. I don't want to get back into .45acp. Otherwise, I'd likely have already bought the Wilson that popped up for sale yesterday on this site.

[HCM]

If not, Dan Wesson is now doing Valors in 9mm.

The Colt Competitions in 9mm are supposedly turning out to be decent as well.

[SLG]

Of course, I was trying to be somewhat humorous about the name of the gun. It's not the OP's fault that some marketing wizard thought COMBAT OPERATOR! was a good name. I have been known to carry a Professional Operator a time or two, though that one should be said professional operator, in order to remain a quiet professional.

I miss the days of the Outdoorsman, the Combat Magnum, etc., but these days aren't those days, and I much prefer the 19/17/229/226 line of gun naming today. At least compared to COMBAT OPERATOR!

Can I safely say Rant Off? Nevermind, I'll stick with rant off. Sorry for the derail.


And for the record, I would never recommend a Kimber 1911 today. I was merely saying that my two examples have done very well.

[TCinVA]

I was disappointed with the heavy trigger when I first picked it up. When I shot it and my shots were so far away from POA I was sorely disappointed. I mean I thought it might be me adjusting to the trigger and sights at first. Then I realized it wasn't me. I still second guessed myself and pulled out my carry G43 and drilled the small circles on the TLG targets. OK - so it's NOT me. I then started getting the FTRBs and the stovepipe. I was so pissed I immediately came home, cleaned it, took pics, and posted it for sale. I started feeling bad after sleeping on it and took the listing down the next day as I don't want to dump it on some chump. I'll wait until it gets back and decide what I want to do. I have a local buyer that was already PMing me wanting it baaaaaaad. I told him the deal and said I had to send it back to SA and if I got it back and it worked ... and I didn't keep it .... I'd PM him and give him first shot at it. Given the limited availability I should be able to get out from under it without losing any money. Mainly, I wanted a new gun. I missed having a 1911 but didn't want to get another .45acp. This one has turned me off though and now I'd almost just as soon get my money back out of it and buy something else to make me smile for a minute.

... maybe I need to give the P30 another shot. I wouldn't mind trying the baby version ... what is it the P30SK?

You have perfectly demonstrated why I bought the Wilson. I was worried about just this sort of issue.

The irony is that now I'm far more open to buying a Colt in 9mm than I was before I bought the Wilson.

[VolGrad]

What's funny is my first 1911 was a Kimber. I can't remember which model but it was a pretty entry level with the only upgrade being night sights. I bought it for like $600 NIB at my local cop shop and wanted to see if I even liked the platform before I started dropping large piles of cash on "good ones". I never had the first issue with it. Ran great and was very accurate. It might not have been operator grade hardware but for what I wanted at the time it worked great. Considering it ran well and I had little $ in it - I really wish I still had that one for when I want to go shoot a 1911.

[xmanhockey7]

Seriously considered buying one of these. Really wanted a full size 9mm 1911. Glad I went a different route.

[farscott]

Of course, I was trying to be somewhat humorous about the name of the gun. It's not the OP's fault that some marketing wizard thought COMBAT OPERATOR! was a good name. I have been known to carry a Professional Operator a time or two, though that one should be said professional operator, in order to remain a quiet professional.

I miss the days of the Outdoorsman, the Combat Magnum, etc., but these days aren't those days, and I much prefer the 19/17/229/226 line of gun naming today. At least compared to COMBAT OPERATOR!

Can I safely say Rant Off? Nevermind, I'll stick with rant off. Sorry for the derail.


And for the record, I would never recommend a Kimber 1911 today. I was merely saying that my two examples have done very well.

I am waiting for a case where the name of the gun (CQB) or the name of the manufacturer (Wilson Combat) is used to show that the shooter was predisposed to causing mayhem or willing to escalate a situation. We already have issues with people putting stupid sayings on AR dust covers, so it is only a matter of time.

I am not a Kimber fan, but I have one (out of a few I have owned) Series II that runs quite well. Of course, I have replaced many parts, including a broken thumb safety, to get to the gun to this point.

[Crusader8207]

If not, Dan Wesson is now doing Valors in 9mm.

The Colt Competitions in 9mm are supposedly turning out to be decent as well.

I have a Colt Competition 9mm and have had zero problems with it. I have approximately 500 rounds through it with zero malfunctions. It's a great pistol.

[Jeep]

The irony is that now I'm far more open to buying a Colt in 9mm than I was before I bought the Wilson.

Right now Colt is turning out some very nice pistols at very nice prices.

[farscott]

Right now Colt is turning out some very nice pistols at very nice prices.

Between the SA Range Officer and the Colt Competition, it is hard to make a decision. The only real differences:

1) Colt Competition has a Series '80 safety system. The SA uses the Ti firing pin and extra power firing pin spring.
2) The sight dovetails are different. SA uses LPA adjustable and Colt uses the Novak dovetail.
3) Colt uses a forged slide stop; the SA one is cast. That being said, I have broken more Colt slide stops than SA.

Both companies use decent parts and perform acceptable fitting. Not sure which one I prefer. I have guns from both companies that have been stellar performers. The Colt barrel might be the feature that makes the decision as a Colt barrel with a properly fitted barrel bushing usually shoots as consistently as a gunsmith-fitted Kart unless discussing Bullseye guns.

[M2CattleCo]

I went through a 9mm kick a few years ago. Huge waste of time and money.

In the end, I decided they weren't for me since I wouldn't trust one to carry and the recoil is so different than a 45 that training with the 9 just ruined any chance I had at hitting anything with the 45.

My 9mm broke down right before a big match I had been practicing hard for, of course it was the one part I didn't have and Dawson just forgot all my dire situation and their promise to overnight the extractor as soon as they hung up with me.

No worries, I have an identical 1911 in 45, I'll just shoot that. I brought enough ammo to miss ~150 shots and I ran out of ammo halfway through the match. Soon after I gave up 'toy guns'. If it's not something I carry or use for HD, I don't own it.

[JHC]

I went through a 9mm kick a few years ago. Huge waste of time and money.

In the end, I decided they weren't for me since I wouldn't trust one to carry and the recoil is so different than a 45 that training with the 9 just ruined any chance I had at hitting anything with the 45.

My 9mm broke down right before a big match I had been practicing hard for, of course it was the one part I didn't have and Dawson just forgot all my dire situation and their promise to overnight the extractor as soon as they hung up with me.

No worries, I have an identical 1911 in 45, I'll just shoot that. I brought enough ammo to miss ~150 shots and I ran out of ammo halfway through the match. Soon after I gave up 'toy guns'. If it's not something I carry or use for HD, I don't own it.

Hard use .45 ACP 1911s are "toy guns" to me too, along with my K-22 and K-38. Just sayin

[Jeep]

Hard use .45 ACP 1911s are "toy guns" to me too, along with my K-22 and K-38. Just sayin

You have a K-38? I think that one of the unwritten rules of this forum is that if you have a K-38 you have to post a photo of it somewhere, and then provide a link to view the photo every time you mention it. Certainly elemental fairness calls for such a rule.

[M2CattleCo]

Hard use .45 ACP 1911s are "toy guns" to me too, along with my K-22 and K-38. Just sayin

Most are. I don't own a 1911 anymore but when I did, I routinely went to about the 10K mark with ZERO malfunctions with the 45s I owned. I moved away from them ultimately because overall, I don't perform very well with 'em, and I like buying and shooting 9mm a lot more.

[pangloss]

Though not ammo cost-competitive, has anyone seriously considered a 1911 in .38 Super? I think I would like one, but it's low on my list.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[farscott]

Though not ammo cost-competitive, has anyone seriously considered a 1911 in .38 Super? I think I would like one, but it's low on my list.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

I did and decided to go with 9x23 Winchester as it is the modernized (no semi-rimless case) .38 Super with lots of potential. You have to be a handloader to make it worth while as there are only a few factory loadings. That being said, the Winchester loadings are excellent and provide .357 Magnum performance without the need for a Coonan.

[Jeep]

Though not ammo cost-competitive, has anyone seriously considered a 1911 in .38 Super? I think I would like one, but it's low on my list.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

I went straight .38 Super with a Colt. Very nice and very reliable gun with 9 round mags. 4.25 lb. trigger right out of the box. The only trouble is that .38 Super is more expensive to buy--basically costs around the same as .45. Reloading would make it more cost competitive.

[HCM]

Though not ammo cost-competitive, has anyone seriously considered a 1911 in .38 Super? I think I would like one, but it's low on my list.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

I have one but it defeats the purpose for me. I'm not currently reloading so .38 super is $20 to $ 30 per box of fifty when you can find it. Plus it's another caliber to drag to the range. I shoot 9mm Glocks for work and off duty carry - I can throw a 9mm 1911 in the range bag and be good to go. Plus, I get reasonable amounts of 9mm from work and when I buy my own its 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of 38 Super.

[pangloss]

I think that if I loved the gun enough, I could pay for .38 Super ammo (but not 9x23!). Though I say this as some one who has shot less than 100 rounds through my 45ACP 1911 in the last five years, so maybe the cost is a bigger factor for me than I admit. Finances aside, there's still the inconvenience of stocking another caliber.

Aside from the Springfield EMP has anyone tried to scale a 1911 to fit a 9mm? The EMP is interesting, but it's not a full sized pistol. Granted you would probably lose whatever interchangeability of parts there is between this scaled down 9mm 1911 and a .45 ACP 1911, but a lot of people don't care about .45ACP anyway.

[WOLFIE]

I think that if I loved the gun enough, I could pay for .38 Super ammo (but not 9x23!). Though I say this as some one who has shot less than 100 rounds through my 45ACP 1911 in the last five years, so maybe the cost is a bigger factor for me than I admit. Finances aside, there's still the inconvenience of stocking another caliber.

Aside from the Springfield EMP has anyone tried to scale a 1911 to fit a 9mm? The EMP is interesting, but it's not a full sized pistol. Granted you would probably lose whatever interchangeability of parts there is between this scaled down 9mm 1911 and a .45 ACP 1911, but a lot of people don't care about .45ACP anyway.

SA offers 9mm 1911 pistols that are not the EMP including 5" barrel models. I am guessing they came out recently.

[HCM]

SA offers 9mm 1911 pistols that are not the EMP including 5" barrel models. I am guessing they came out recently.

SA offers both full size frame 9mms, the EMP which is a 3" micro 1911 scaled down for 9mm & 40 and the new EMP 4 which is a "commander sized EMP with a 4" barrel and a longer grip. Both the EMP and the EMP 4 use proprietary magazines. I have XXL hands so neither EMP model really suits me but it's an option for those with smaller hands.

[Jeep]

.38 super is $20 to $ 30 per box of fifty when you can find it.

SG ammo sells it quite a bit cheaper. Currently Armscor .38 Super goes for $15 per box (or $14 per box if you buy 100 rounds), and Geco for a few bucks more. http://www.sgammo.com/product/38-super-auto-ammo/50-round-box-38-super-fmj-target-ammo-armscor-ammunition. It's still not nearly as cheap as 9 mm, of course.

[farscott]

I have been messing with using .38 SuperComp brass to load 9x19-equivalent rounds. It does eliminate feeding issues of the 9x19 in the 1911 without needing to change to the 9x19 barrel and recoil spring system. Four issues:

1) Sorting the SuperComp brass from the 9x19 and 9x23 brass is a bit of a pain.
2) Insuring that full-power 9x23 loads are not loaded in SuperComp brass is essential.
3) Need a bit more powder in the SuperComp case compared to the same velocity for the same bullet in the 9x19 case.
4) About the same cost as buying decent commercial 9x19 loads.

The hassle is giving me an excuse to think about the S&W 952-2. I have one, but it has been locked in the safe for at least eight years.

[11B10]

Volgrad - FWIW, I was one of those SA XDS .45 ACP buyers - in the very first wave. My gun went back to SA for the now famous recall. When I physically looked at the Geneso location online (Google maps streetviews are great), I thought: O....M.....G - this is gonna be a year with all the guns they have coming back! I have never been so surprised by the professionalism when I called and the speed with which I got my XDS back. It was just under 7 weeks from the FedEx truck leaving until it was back in my holster. Very impressed with the whole deal. So....maybe............

[VolGrad]

7 weeks doesn't impress me much. I sent a gun back to Ed Brown once and had it back in 7 days including travel time and a weekend. That was warranty work and a grip chop & refinish. THAT'S impressive [emoji12]

[JBP55]

7 weeks doesn't impress me much. I sent a gun back to Ed Brown once and had it back in 7 days including travel time and a weekend. That was warranty work and a grip chop & refinish. THAT'S impressive [emoji12]

Maybe the XDS had to go back to the Mothership in Croatia.

[Trooper224]

Maybe the XDS had to go back to the Mothership in Croatia.

Or maybe Ed Brown didn't have a metric s**t ton of pistols coming back in for a recall. That really isn't a valid comparison.

[VolGrad]

Or maybe Ed Brown didn't have a metric s**t ton of pistols coming back in for a recall. That really isn't a valid comparison.

Agree. I'm just saying it should have been working when it left the first time so waiting 7 weeks for something to get fixed doesn't make me giggle.

[JHC]

Had to be a typo. 7 days I bet

[JBP55]

Had to be a typo. 7 days I bet

Confusing the spelling of Weeks and Days sounds like more than a typo.

[HCM]

I decided to try one more range session before calling Springfield. Skyline1 and I hit the outdoor range this morning. All rounds were fired from the SA supplied Chip McCormick mags unless noted.

- First magazine is Winchester Ranger 147 grain JHP. Had Brass To Face (BTF) and only made it through half a mag before having my first malfunction, a Failure To Eject / Horizontal (FTE).

7118
7119

I had previously lubed the gun with Kleen bore CLP from work. Decided to clear the gun, field strip it and re-lube with SLIP 2000 EWL.

After re-assembly, I attempted to fire the remaining half mag of WIN Ranger 147. Had another FTE / Stovepipe after the first round and BTF there after.

7120 7121

- Ran one magazine of Monarch steel 115 grain FMJ. Ran 100% - 1 BTF.

- Ran five rounds (1/2 mag) of Skyline1's coated reloads. No malfunctions these are loaded warm, felt like +p loads.

-Ran one magazine of Independence Aluminum cased 115 grain FMJ - Ran 100%, 1 BTF.

-Had Skyline1 shoot 1 magazine of Winchester Ranger with a known good Check-mate mag. The slide failed to lock back when empty 2x. Several BTF, erratic ejection Point of Impact (POI) was 2" low at 10 yards.

- Had Skyline1 shoot 1 mag of 124 grain blazer brass. BTF and Erratic ejection with some brass going back between 3 and 5 o'clock and some barely making it out of the gun and going forward to 10 or 11 o'clock. POI was 2" below the Fiber Optic dot at 15 yards.

- Ran another magazine of Monarch 115 grain steel case. Had more BTF and another FTE / Stove pipe.

7122

- Ran a magazine of Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +P Gold Dot Hollow Point. No malfunctions. Shot on a B-8 at 25 yards holding just below 12 o'clock withe the top of teh front sight. That put the Fiber optic (FO )dot between the X and the top of the black. Majority of rounds were in the bottom half of the target so POI 3-4" below the FO dot POA. Score was 94 / 3x.

7123

- Ran another magazine of Winchester ranger 147 grain JHP. No malfunctions but a few BTF. POI was 1" or so higher than the GDHP but further left. 89/1x :-(

This brings the round count to about 400. The gun will definitely need to go back to SA to address the reliability and Point of Impact (POI) issues.

[Larry Sellers]

Does it pass the 10-8 extractor test? Seems to be an extractor tension issue. I just went through this with a dan Wesson chambered in 9mm and the issues was cured with a properly fitted and tuned Wilson 9mm extractor.

[HCM]

Does it pass the 10-8 extractor test? Seems to be an extractor tension issue. I just went through this with a dan Wesson chambered in 9mm and the issues was cured with a properly fitted and tuned Wilson 9mm extractor.

I didn't perform the 10-8 test. Prior to today, I'd had BTF and funky ejection patterns but no actual malfunctions.

I agree regarding the extractor but this is supposed to be a TRP level, premium gun. Springfield will be fixing it under warranty, not me.

[SecondsCount]

That is totally an extraction isssue. It seems like they just dropped in an extractor and threw on some sights.

Send it back. No use wasting any more ammo.

I've had mediocre success with Springfields. My Loaded 9mm runs like a champ but the EMP I bought my wife had all kinds of weird issues including light strikes and FTE's. Sending it back solved the FTE issue but we still had light strikes. I ended up selling it with full disclosure.

For $1,700 I would expect better.

[VolGrad]

Sorry we jinxed you.

[M2CattleCo]

It's extracting, it's not ejecting. Somethings up with the chamber, the ejector, the barrel fit, or any combination of those and maybe other things.

1911s don't really need extractor tension. It's doesn't hurt anything to have it, and it's gotten real popular in the past few years.

[45dotACP]

It's extracting, it's not ejecting. Somethings up with the chamber, the ejector, the barrel fit, or any combination of those and maybe other things.

1911s don't really need extractor tension. It's doesn't hurt anything to have it, and it's gotten real popular in the past few years.

Care to cite an expert on that one? I've never heard that mentioned by any actual authority on 1911's...

See, it's just that I've usually found that the tension tends to hold the case in position to strike the ejector correctly...if that's not done correctly you can drag a case into the feed lips of your magazine and turn the whole thing to butt. I've seen, and experienced this across a few different 1911's that had no tension in the extractor.

First order of business is to establish how much tension is on the extractor...examining the ejector for looseness is warranted. I've never heard of barrel fit being an issue with failures to eject though...

[HCM]

Sorry we jinxed you.

Apparently it had to be broken in, in order to malfunction properly :confused:

[VolGrad]

Apparently it had to be broken in, in order to malfunction properly :confused:

Mine was ahead of he game. I just wish I had stopped before burning through 150 rounds of ammo. I realize that isn't much but I pushed through way past when I knew there was a problem.

[JHC]

Update:

OK the gun runs great. Ejection is outstanding now. Up to 650 rounds, not a malf yet with either Wilson or McCormick mags. I found it does prefer the 124 grain weight as suggested. I haven't seen stellar 25 yard precision yet but I don't yet know how big a problem my rusty SA trigger work is. And gripping this skinny single stack after so many years on nice fat 2x4s.

But I can work with this 25 yard potential for now. https://www.flickr.com/photos/78036189@N07/26415636602/in/dateposted-public/

I have found this 40 oz 9mm just a joy to shoot though. This exercise is almost effortless in the 2.5-2.75 sec range. When I speed up as I do in the last pair it can get dicey at my level. I've been given a 2.0 second standard on this exercise (Kevin B) and I've got a ways to go.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/78036189@N07/26460147646/in/dateposted-public/

[Trooper224]

Glad to hear it's working for you. I'd be interested in one of these if it didn't have the rail. I don't attach a light to my 1911's so none of my numerous holsters will work and I have no desire to invest in yet another one. Nice looking piece though.

[VolGrad]

My SA shipped today. Should get it Friday. Long list of fixes. Hoping its squared away now.

[VolGrad]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/ac4fcdcd8da7e66585973e72df9d3a4c.jpg

[SecondsCount]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/ac4fcdcd8da7e66585973e72df9d3a4c.jpg

Looks to me like they threw everything together before it left the factory the first time. Shame on them but it sounds like they are taking care of you guys.

[JHC]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/ac4fcdcd8da7e66585973e72df9d3a4c.jpg

That's quite a list! You should shoot it again. ;)

[VolGrad]

Looks to me like they threw everything together before it left the factory the first time. Shame on them but it sounds like they are taking care of you guys.Agree on both parts.


That's quite a list! You should shoot it again. ;)I'll test fire it before I sell it so I can let it to go to someone else guilt free.

[Trooper224]

That's quite a few issues. I really hope it's good to go now.

[VolGrad]

It's back in my hands. I hope to test fire it tomorrow and make sure all seems well before listing it for sale. Frankly, I had buyer's remorse already and after having issues with it I'm OK with letting it go. I'll go find me a P320 Compact to try out. That will satisfy my new gun itch.

[VolGrad]

Just back from the range. All ejection was in one spot. Fed every round perfectly. No sluggish slide feel. Accuracy was as good as I am. At 10 yards I was able to keep nearly every round inside the small numbered circles on TLGs target at a moderate rate of fire. I didn't try extreme bullseye as I'm really not that great and am really rusty anyway.

[Trooper224]

Still planning on sending it down the road?

[VolGrad]

Still planning on sending it down the road?

Yup. Like I said. I had a little buyers remorse already before I had the issues. Now that I know it's squared away I can sell it guilt free. PM me of you are interested. I thinking read you are looking.

[Trooper224]

Yup. Like I said. I had a little buyers remorse already before I had the issues. Now that I know it's squared away I can sell it guilt free. PM me of you are interested. I thinking read you are looking.

No, not looking but thanks. I just bought a 9mm SA Range Officer, so I'm good. I was just wondering if you were feeling any differently about it now that it's working right.

[VolGrad]

I don't have any reservations about the gun now. I just had remorse already and am ready to move on.

[farscott]

I don't have any reservations about the gun now. I just had remorse already and am ready to move on.

I did not need to read that. If I come home with another 1911 this month, my wife will use it on me. I just transferred an ORM 1991A1.

But I am a total sucker for the 9x19 1911 ....

[Trooper224]

I did not need to read that. If I come home with another 1911 this month, my wife will use it on me. I just transferred an ORM 1991A1.

But I am a total sucker for the 9x19 1911 ....

That Lipsey's is rather sexy and this one's been worked over to save you the trouble. Just sayin'..................

[farscott]

That Lipsey's is rather sexy and this one's been worked over to save you the trouble. Just sayin'..................

Yeah, it is sexy. Weighing that against my wife's reaction ....

[VolGrad]

Yeah, it is sexy. Weighing that against my wife's reaction ....

It's totally worth it. As for forgiveness rather than permission, right? Nothing a Coach purse couldn't fix. PM me. Like Trooper said this one is GTG now and I'd argue that is better than taking your chances on a NIB one. This one has already had the "we feel awful we put this gun out like that" guilty fix session. I'm sure they gave it special attention.

[VolGrad]

..... and mine has been sold with full disclosure. It's a good shooting buddy so he knows where to find me if he needs to. I lost a little money but that's the nature of playing the game I suppose.

[HCM]

UPDATE -SA contacted me last week advising the warranty work on my SA COMBAT OPERATOR! was complete. Since the gun is already at SA, I elected to have SACS do a 4#ish trigger job at my expense so it will be a few more weeks.

[azerious]

makes me feel warm and fuzzy about sticking with a 5" .45acp colt these days until all this is improved and blown over

[HCM]

makes me feel warm and fuzzy about sticking with a 5" .45acp colt these days until all this is improved and blown over

Colt is generally making good guns right now but the USMC has reported significant issues with the M45 so I wouldn't get too comfortable.

One of the drivers for my purchase of the CO 9mm was my positive experiences with my 2007 vintage SA MC Operator .45. As we see over and over, no companies past performance is a guarantee of current performance.

[Crusader8207]

I put 200 rounds through my Colt Lightweight Commander 9mm today. 100 S&B 124 grain and 100 Federal HST 147 Hydra Shock and had zero malfunctions. I now have had 500 trouble free rounds through the pistol.

[HCM]

So my SA CO came back from SACS today. They replaced the rear sight, polished the feed ramp and re- fit the extractor and thumb safety.

In addition to the warranty work I had SACS do. a 4- 4 1/2. LB trigger job ( it was 5.5-6 LB) which was an additional $129 and included a new sear.

I hit the indoor range and put 150 round through it including American Eagle 124 gr FMJ, Winchester Ranger 147 grain JHP and Speer 124 grain + p gold dot.

The good news - trigger and mechanical accuracy were great and function was 100% with everything including the wi Chester 147 which previously had caused issues.

The not so good- 1) The grip safety is noticeably less sensitive than it was before and I had some issues activating it which I did not have prior. 2) POI went from low / below "drive the dot" to high. A 6 o'clock hold on a B-8 sized shoot n see was dead on POI at 15 yards but up at 12 o'clock at 25.

Photo is rotated left but that's 5 RDS of AE 124 at 15, the stickers above were 124 gold dot + p at 25.

8243

[HopetonBrown]

I want two of these real bad, but the problems I'm reading here coupled with the fact that Springfield said they're not doing custom work until 2017 gives me pause. And I don't like 6 o'clock holds.

[HCM]

I want two of these real bad, but the problems I'm reading here coupled with the fact that Springfield said they're not doing custom work until 2017 gives me pause. And I don't like 6 o'clock holds.

SACS is not doing full builds but they did my trigger job while it was back having the warranty work done.

Original POI was low - drive the dot hold gave a 6 o'Clock POI at 25 yards. I'm going to have to either figure out the correct height front sight to order from Dawson or install one of the Novak cut adjustable rear sights.

These are not on the CA roster so unless you are LE or moving out of CA can you get one ? Which sucks as a 10 rd single stack 9mm makes sense in CA.
Dan Wesson is offering the specialist and Valor in 9mm.

[JHC]

SACS is not doing full builds but they did my trigger job while it was back having the warranty work done.

Original POI was low - drive the dot hold gave a 6 o'Clock POI at 25 yards. I'm going to have to either figure out the correct height front sight to order from Dawson or install one of the Novak cut adjustable rear sights.

These are not on the CA roster so unless you are LE or moving out of CA can you get one ? Which sucks as a 10 rd single stack 9mm makes sense in CA.
Dan Wesson is offering the specialist and Valor in 9mm.

Great to see the accuracy. I have not seen that level from the loads I've tried so far. Mine also went from way too low to a little to high for ideal.

But dang its a fast mutha to hit repeatedly with.

[Robinson]

I'd be tempted to call that sight arrangement good, but that's a personal thing of course. I'd rather the gun shoot a little bit high than at all low. But then I like my POI to be just barely above the front sight post.

[Depmur]

I've had mine for a little over a month and finally got to shoot it. The first 50 rounds were my departments qualification course, no issues except with one Wilson magazine. I put another 250 rounds through it with no issues, a mix of American Eagle 124 grain and Winchester Ranger +P rounds. Work and rain has seriously hampered my shooting the last couple of months but I plan on getting back out there soon. Only things I don't care for is the run on of the checkering at the bottom of the front strap, same as my TRP, fixed with a file. I also don't care for the frame color.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JHC]

I recently sent mine back to SA a 2nd time for very poor accuracy/precision. Selling that incl emailing a very helpful CS rep pics of 25 yard groups: G26/Dave Sams 1911 and this gun.

Anyway, I'm pleased to now have a copy that has shot several different loads into about 3" @ 25 yards for 5. Which is a massive improvement from 6-8" with some of the same loads.

[Kyle Reese]

I recently sent mine back to SA a 2nd time for very poor accuracy/precision. Selling that incl emailing a very helpful CS rep pics of 25 yard groups: G26/Dave Sams 1911 and this gun.

Anyway, I'm pleased to now have a copy that has shot several different loads into about 3" @ 25 yards for 5. Which is a massive improvement from 6-8" with some of the same loads.

6-8 inch groups at 25 is M&P 9 territory.

[JHC]

I've gotten the hankering to re-tune my senses to shooting a 1911 better; closer to how I did in the 80s at least. Perhaps exceed. I'll be using this mostly.

I think I've got close to 3K rds through it after today. It's run well. It passes the 1911 extractor test 10/10. It likes 124 gr HST and Tula. Go figure.

It's fast and precise on drills as I relearn a less crude trigger.

[StraitR]

I've really wanted one of these ever since they were first announced. It was painful to see the widespread problems. There really is nothing comparable to the Combat Op 9mm in the price range. Wonder if the bugs have been been worked out of all the new ones?

Glad to see yours up and running well JHC. cough. pics. cough.

[JHC]

I've really wanted one of these ever since they were first announced. It was painful to see the widespread problems. There really is nothing comparable to the Combat Op 9mm in the price range. Wonder if the bugs have been been worked out of all the new ones?

Glad to see yours up and running well JHC. cough. pics. cough.

Unfortunately it still looks LNIB. I'll fix that soon.

[JHC]

Is there anyone else who sees the irony in JHC, who appears to be immune to BTF with his plethora of GLOCKs, is getting BTF from a high-ish end 1911? The gods are laughing somewhere...

Man that was an epic post.

[HCM]

edited - double tap by my wonky tablet

[StraitR]

Unfortunately it still looks LNIB. I'll fix that soon.

Or you can just stay committed to your Glocks and send that 1911 my way. <3

[HCM]

Not mine - posted in a bookface group for a Glock aftermarket barrel maker. Wouk was done by Metzfab.

13505

[JHC]

Or you can just stay committed to your Glocks and send that 1911 my way. <3

It was an anniversary gift about a year ago man!

[StraitR]

It was an anniversary gift about a year ago man!

Best be keeping that pistol then (and the awesome gift giver). ;)

[JHC]

Correction: I grossly overstated the round count. I see I attributed the round count of another 1911. This one is just over 1500.

Saturday I was shooting many reps of D2 to the Gabe School 4" circle from concealment; OWB under an open coat. 7 yards

I was comparing this performance against my RTF2 G19 and my five fastest clean runs were all with the Operator.

1.98/2.09/2.11/2.16/2.25

[JAD]

D2 to the Gabe School 4" circle

That's a good metric. Think about shooting the Rangemaster Core Handgun Skill Test (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?247-Rangemaster-Tom-Givens-Handgun-Core-Skills-Test (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?247-Rangemaster-Tom-Givens-Handgun-Core-Skills-Test)with)) with each gun -- I find it pretty enlightening, really well balanced.

Unfortunately there is no metric for cool and good looking; but I'm pretty sure the 1911 pushes you farther toward McQueen and away from Yeager.

[JHC]

Another 150 rounds ran smoothly today. Some F2S practice using a facsimile of a 4" circle. She's fast. I have to temper my right foot so to speak. Some hits some misses. Heavy for 9mm pistols are a whale of a lot of fun.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/78036189@N07/31884384894/in/dateposted-public/

[JAD]

I have to temper my right foot so to speak.

I muttered the same "way too fast" after a drill yesterday, verbatim, tone and everything. Made me grin.

Also, there's this thing called gravel.

[Mr_White]

Another 150 rounds ran smoothly today. Some F2S practice using a facsimile of a 4" circle. She's fast. I have to temper my right foot so to speak. Some hits some misses. Heavy for 9mm pistols are a whale of a lot of fun.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/78036189@N07/31884384894/in/dateposted-public/

Video, fun!

[JHC]

Just over 2000 rounds now and it continues to run great. It will shoot Federal 147 +P HST, Critical Duty 135 +P and 124 grain +P HST into 3-4" five shot groups that overlap each other inside the black of the B8 at 25 yards. I don't know how much tighter it will group; I'll need to find a human ransom rest to gauge that.

However, 147 standard pressure HSTs grouped high outside/above the bull.

[Robinson]

However, 147 standard pressure HSTs grouped high outside/above the bull.

That's interesting as I've had good accuracy in my 1911s with the standard pressure 147gr HST. But I'm probably not a good enough shooter to appreciate whether they are sufficiently accurate at 25 yards.

Glad to hear your pistol is running great.

[JHC]

That's interesting as I've had good accuracy in my 1911s with the standard pressure 147gr HST. But I'm probably not a good enough shooter to appreciate whether they are sufficiently accurate at 25 yards.

Glad to hear your pistol is running great.

They just impacted high, due simply to a lower velocity I assume.

It's running so well, I'm eyeballing a .45 version of the same gun in my LGS. ;)

I shoot my Dave Sams .45 to tighter groups at 25 so I sense this Operator is not super precise. But then, I can easily turn the bushing by hand on it, and remove it to disassemble whereas on the Sams gun I need the wrench to turn the bushing and its hard as hell to do that. I've never had that bushing OFF the barrel. I tried, it won't easily so I don't. :D

[JHC]

I shot her hard until a couple weeks back. Ran great but I shot a one hole exercise side by side with another 1911 from 5, 7, 10 yards. The other 1911 lived in the X ring. This one had obvious fliers way too far out. I considered my hunch confirmed.

I'm bonded to this beauty for the effort my funny little honey, elder son and LGS buddy went through to track one down and shock me with it so I decided YOLO and sent it to Dave Sams to do his full voodoo. Barrel, bushing, frame/slide lapping, short trigger and blended well. I'll basically double the investment but like I said, YOLO. 12-16 weeks ain't bad.

Will update then.

[StraitR]

I'm at a point where I'm finally ready to sell (or trade) my last two service pistols, a 17k and Brig Tac, for another 9mm 1911. I'm not funding a second Wilson, so I'm thinking either this or a Colt (Plain jane Combat Commander for half the cost). I still see a few new Combat Operators listed online for sale. Have the reliability fleas been worked out of these?

[theJanitor]

I didn't read the whole thread. Do they just need a new barrel fit? Having a smith add a match barrel, isn't much.

[JHC]

I'm at a point where I'm finally ready to sell (or trade) my last two service pistols, a 17k and Brig Tac, for another 9mm 1911. I'm not funding a second Wilson, so I'm thinking either this or a Colt. I still see a few new Combat Operators listed online for sale. Have the reliability fleas been worked out of these?

Man, who knows. When I see owner's loving comments on other boards, I don't see quantified accuracy measurements. I see "more accurate than I am" sort of thing. But I don't hear of them malf'ing badly.

When I got this new LB Operator there was a .45 version of the Lipsey's Combat Operator right next to it for a few hundred dollars more and I was briefly tempted but bought a case of GECO 230 ball with the difference. And this LBO is a friggin' shooting BEAST.

But I love the feature set of the Lipsey's package.

[JHC]

I didn't read the whole thread. Do they just need a new barrel fit? Having a smith add a match barrel, isn't much.

In the case of my gun, yeah probably. IIRC there was a little bit of functioning issues with one or both of the others reported here. But SACS took care of that. Mine has cycled beautifully with all sorts of ammo.

[HCM]

I'm at a point where I'm finally ready to sell (or trade) my last two service pistols, a 17k and Brig Tac, for another 9mm 1911. I'm not funding a second Wilson, so I'm thinking either this or a Colt (Plain jane Combat Commander for half the cost). I still see a few new Combat Operators listed online for sale. Have the reliability fleas been worked out of these?

SA is doing these in batches for lipseys in different calibers. I haven't heard of any issues with the current crop in .45.

Mine had reliability issues, a heavy trigger and POI was very low.SA fixed the reliability issues. I paid for a trigger job while it was st SA. POI went from low to high. I'm gonna need a custom height front sight from Dawson.

The gun is accurate (2-3" at 25 yards ) with good ammo and has been 100% reliable since it came back from SA.

[StraitR]

Man, who knows. When I see owner's loving comments on other boards, I don't see quantified accuracy measurements. I see "more accurate than I am" sort of thing. But I don't hear of them malf'ing badly.

When I got this new LB Operator there was a .45 version of the Lipsey's Combat Operator right next to it for a few hundred dollars more and I was briefly tempted but bought a case of GECO 230 ball with the difference. And this LBO is a friggin' shooting BEAST.

But I love the feature set of the Lipsey's package.

I only go to other forums to look at the pictures. :p

I carried a govt model 45 for years, and although I quite enjoy them, I'm afraid I just don't have the physical ability to tolerate the recoil anymore (hand injury). When I wanted to step away from AIWB SFA guns (Glock 19) after four years, the exploratory trip from DA/SA to LEM was humbling in terms of opening my eyes to the limitations of strength and stamina in my trigger finger. Both DA/SA and LEM resulted in copious inflammation of my finger and nagging tendonitis after even brief dry fire sessions. The light weight and short travel cycle of the 1911 trigger is about all I can tolerate outside of SFA guns (VP9 and Glock). So, I went all in with the 9mm Wilson and it's worked out great, I just need a second copy, but with a lower pricetag.


ETA:


SA is doing these in batches for lipseys in different calibers. I haven't heard of any issues with the current crop in .45.

Mine had reliability issues, a heavy trigger and POI was very low.SA fixed the reliability issues. I paid for a trigger job while it was st SA. POI went from low to high. I'm gonna need a custom height front sight from Dawson.

The gun is accurate (2-3" at 25 yards ) with good ammo and has been 100% reliable since it came back from SA.


Great info, thanks.

[theJanitor]

Craig, have you seen these?

http://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=COO4842WC

LW commander in 9mm. I just pickep up a LW CCO in 45 and with a few dollars in parts (grips, trigger, thumbsafety), I'm pretty damn happy

[StraitR]

Craig, have you seen these?

http://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=COO4842WC

LW commander in 9mm. I just pickep up a LW CCO in 45 and with a few dollars in parts (grips, trigger, thumbsafety), I'm pretty damn happy

I have, briefly in my searching, and I like the WC models. I too would need a to change the trigger (from long to medium) and thumbsafety, as well as grips (just preference). I'll have to look the street price up tonight. I've also seen the standard 2017 LW Commander 9mm for about $900 that would require the same changes.

[MSparks909]

I'd give Dan Wesson a look. But between Colt and Springfield, Colt all day long. I own a TRP and a M45A1 currently. I'll be picking up one of the new Colt Gold Cup Trophy's in 9mm to use as my single stack minor gun, and I'll be picking up a .45 version of the same gun for shooting single stack major. Colt'a attention to detail on some of the smaller parts of the gun (firing pin stop, extractor tension, properly pinned ejectors vs. glued ones on the Springfield...stuff like that just makes me choose Colt over SA).

[theJanitor]

the Clapps have very nice checkering, and a mild round butt on the MSH, brass bead sights, and good barrels.

here's mine, after a greider trigger, novak thumb safety, and hogue grips:

http://i.imgur.com/yDM0cMD.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/9hpvz38.jpg?1

[StraitR]

Looks great, and knowing about the various 1911 masterpieces you have, you having one is a pretty high endorsement for the WC. Definitely see the value added to the WC line. I'll take a much closer look. Thanks.

[Robinson]

My Colt Lwt Commander 9mm continues to run without problems. I wouldn't mind having the Combat Commander 9mm for a dedicated practice gun. Or maybe a second Lwt Commander since shooting lots of 9mm probably won't beat up the frame very much.

I have been tracking some reported issues with using the Wilson Combat ETM magazines with the Colt guns though. It seems that briskly inserting the magazines such as during a reload can cause stress on the ejector because the top of the mag contacts the ejector before the bottom of the mag contacts the bottom of the grip frame. A couple ejectors have reportedly broken and some have bent. I have not noticed any bending on mine yet, but I don't perform reloads nearly as often as some other users especially those who shoot competition. Hopefully it won't turn into a problem since the ETM mags have proven so reliable in my guns.

[StraitR]

My Colt Lwt Commander 9mm continues to run without problems. I wouldn't mind having the Combat Commander 9mm for a dedicated practice gun. Or maybe a second Lwt Commander since shooting lots of 9mm probably won't beat up the frame very much.

I have been tracking some reported issues with using the Wilson Combat ETM magazines with the Colt guns though. It seems that briskly inserting the magazines such as during a reload can cause stress on the ejector because the top of the mag contacts the ejector before the bottom of the mag contacts the bottom of the grip frame. A couple ejectors have reportedly broken and some have bent. I have not noticed any bending on mine yet, but I don't perform reloads nearly as often as some other users especially those who shoot competition. Hopefully it won't turn into a problem since the ETM mags have proven so reliable in my guns.

Interesting. I'll have to look into this as well since all my mags are Wilson ETM's.

Kent, albeit a different caliber, can you check your WC for this interference with Wilson mags?

And hopefully Jason swings by to post his latest creation here, a two-tone Combat Commander he posted on another site today, because it's is simply stunning. Makes me want to start with the base CC I found new for $756. My Wilson is a steel frame, so the weight difference of the LW and CC mean nothing to me.

[theJanitor]

here you go, took these just now. I'm running the Colt mags that came with the gun, as they are flush fitting, and the baseplate lip has been reduced at the factory to not protrude from the front of the frame. So I used a Wilson 47 for the comparison:


Stock colt mag, fully seated and as high as can be inserted:

http://i.imgur.com/vvlJj2o.jpg?1



Wilson 47 (full size) at the "normal" seated position:

http://i.imgur.com/qjBa778.jpg?1



Wilson 47 at is highest position (note, that the mag is for a full sized gun, and there's no basepad to impede upward movement)

http://i.imgur.com/EVEGgYl.jpg?1



The stock colt mag has proven to be very good, and I am debating whether or not I order wilson's for it. I run the 47 or the ETM in all my full size 1911's. If I were to order spare mags for the compact frame, it would probably be these, with the basepad designed to limit upward travel:

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/1911-Magazine-45-ACP-Compact-8-Round-Lo-Profile-OM-Steel-Base-Pad/productinfo/47DOX/

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/images/47dox-1.JPG

[Robinson]

Two of my 9mm ETMs have that type of basepad while the others do not. I'd like to buy some more of that type but they are not always available.

[theJanitor]

Robinson, Looks like all the baspads are in stock, right now:

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Base-Pads-_-Retainer-Plates/products/101/

[StraitR]

here you go..

Much appreciated.

[Robinson]

Robinson, Looks like all the baspads are in stock, right now:

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Base-Pads-_-Retainer-Plates/products/101/

Thanks for the heads up!

[JHC]

I just got this Combat Operator back from Dave Sams today. Work performed:

Install/fit KKM 1:32 ramped barrel
Install/fit NM barrel bushing
Install short Greider trigger
Ed Brown magwell, blend with frame
Slide/frame fit/lap
Engrave SCG logo under pistol grip on frame
Tightened loose plunger tube
Grip screw bushings not flush inside magwell - flush cut

Check out the 50 yard target, 10 shots from a machine rest.

18923

I know. Zero excuses now.

[JHC]

Pure fun shooting this. The two stage kaaCHUNK feeling recoils is gone. Smooth like the .45s.

Loose relaxed grip in slowfire will cause a fail to go into battery but firm SHO/WHO does not. This seems to be decreasing over a few hundred rounds.

Easy to hit fast.

19234

[JHC]

Kevin B evaluated the pistol yesterday. In there is a 25 yard offhand 100 with 8 or 9 X's. Lawman 115 gr
20871

[Kevin B.]

Kevin B evaluated the pistol yesterday. In there is a 25 yard offhand 100 with 8 or 9 X's. Lawman 115 gr
20871

That pistol is exceptionally accurate; perhaps the most accurate pistol I have ever shot. I genuinely enjoyed shooting it. Thanks again for letting me run some rounds through it.

[JHC]

Riddle me this?

I use a 6:00 hold on the B8 to impact the 10 ring.

Kevin B held on the X for that.

Waaaaaat?

[TCB]

Everyone sees sights differently. I had an exceptional shooter hitting 2” low with a pistol zeroed to me at +/- 15 yards? It’s weird.

[psalms144.1]

Kevin B evaluated the pistol yesterday. In there is a 25 yard offhand 100 with 8 or 9 X's. Lawman 115 gr
20871Holy baby Jesus - that's some shooting! That would definitely go on my refrigerator - or the door of my office...

[Kevin B.]

Riddle me this?

I use a 6:00 hold on the B8 to impact the 10 ring.

Kevin B held on the X for that.

Waaaaaat?


Everyone sees sights differently. I had an exceptional shooter hitting 2” low with a pistol zeroed to me at +/- 15 yards? It’s weird.

Without discounting different perceptions by different shooters, I think the FO front may be a factor as well.

When we shooting the "credit card" of a USPSA target at 25 yards, I had two rounds go about an inch high. For both of those shots I realized (too late) I was holding the top of the FO at the intended POI, not the top of the front sight. I think that is also what happened with the one shot I put high into the 10-ring in the slow fire group.

I suspect if one were to align the top of the FO with the top of the rear sight, the rounds would go high by a similar amount. Some combination of the two would likely put you around three inches high at 25 yards necessitating a 6:00 hold.

[JHC]

That could be it. I don't see so good. 😁

[JHC]

Holy baby Jesus - that's some shooting! That would definitely go on my refrigerator - or the door of my office...
It was fun to see. We walk down and check each hit individually. I tried to keep my commentary in check. Like in golf. :D

[HCM]

It was fun to see. We walk down and check each hit individually. I tried to keep my commentary in check. Like in golf. :D

I can tolerate many four letter words but the G word is the most offensive.

[JHC]

I can tolerate many four letter words but the G word is the most offensive.
ROLF! I don't G. But you get the meaning.