PX4 safety/decocker lever questions

[ppd1107]

I just picked up a PX4 45. As I suspect most people do, I found the stock safety levers uncomfortable and I could not off safe the pistol during my draw like I can with my 92 series pistols. So I purchased the C8A000 kit which basically are safety levers shaped like 92 series levers. During the install I punched out the small ball bearing and spring so the levers functioned as decockers only. Then I foolishly contacted Beretta through there on line support center. I basically wanted to know if there would a problem with the levers being installed as decockers only. I was informed that the levers would only work as safety/decocker levers and if I wanted a decocker they provided links to two other Beretta poducts. Now I am worried about two different issues. One is that the pistol can malfunction somehow. Second is that if the pistol is used for duty or self defense ( as I plan on using it for), do I open myself up for liability by performing some type of non factory authorized modification. Or is the partially trained person at Beretta trying to sell more of their products?

[Whirlwind06]

I know that knocking out the ball bearing to make a PX4 de-cock only mod has been on the Beretta forum for some time.
So, as far as I know you should be fine in terms of reliability, with some range time to verify of course.

I can't speak to the liability thing. In my mind it would be no different that changing sights.

[LangdonTactical]

I just picked up a PX4 45. As I suspect most people do, I found the stock safety levers uncomfortable and I could not off safe the pistol during my draw like I can with my 92 series pistols. So I purchased the C8A000 kit which basically are safety levers shaped like 92 series levers. During the install I punched out the small ball bearing and spring so the levers functioned as decockers only. Then I foolishly contacted Beretta through there on line support center. I basically wanted to know if there would a problem with the levers being installed as decockers only. I was informed that the levers would only work as safety/decocker levers and if I wanted a decocker they provided links to two other Beretta poducts. Now I am worried about two different issues. One is that the pistol can malfunction somehow. Second is that if the pistol is used for duty or self defense ( as I plan on using it for), do I open myself up for liability by performing some type of non factory authorized modification. Or is the partially trained person at Beretta trying to sell more of their products?

That does not sound right to me. I think maybe they (the person at Beretta) may be confusing the real 92 safety system with the PX4 system. While they are very similar, they do not function the same and as far as i know taking the spring and ball bearing out converts all PX4 safety levers to a G Configuration. It should be perfectly reliable on the PX4, but not on an 92.

That said, I have never personally used the C8A000 lever kit. I am told it is the exact same lever but just shaped like a 92 lever.

Hope this helps.

[Rick_ICT]

I just picked up a PX4 45. As I suspect most people do, I found the stock safety levers uncomfortable and I could not off safe the pistol during my draw like I can with my 92 series pistols. So I purchased the C8A000 kit which basically are safety levers shaped like 92 series levers. During the install I punched out the small ball bearing and spring so the levers functioned as decockers only. Then I foolishly contacted Beretta through there on line support center. I basically wanted to know if there would a problem with the levers being installed as decockers only. I was informed that the levers would only work as safety/decocker levers and if I wanted a decocker they provided links to two other Beretta poducts. Now I am worried about two different issues. One is that the pistol can malfunction somehow. Second is that if the pistol is used for duty or self defense ( as I plan on using it for), do I open myself up for liability by performing some type of non factory authorized modification. Or is the partially trained person at Beretta trying to sell more of their products?

I don't follow the logic behind swapping out the levers because you found the originals difficult to unsafe, but then converted the 92 style levers to decocker only (thus eliminating any concerns about unsafing the weapon, which could have been done with the original levers). However, I've been known to do a few things that left others scratching their heads, sometimes for the sole purpose of seeing other people's confusion. :cool:

I found the original levers rather ugly (not to mention non-ergonomic) and wanted something better looking. That's why I tried the 92 style levers, but then discovered that while they were far more aesthetically pleasing they were actually slighter wider than the originals and my compact was meant to be a concealment gun. Further, my strong hand thumb sometimes managed to get high enough behind the 92 style levers to be just grazed by it. Annoying, but never really painful. I eventually wound up going with the low-profile decocker only levers and low-profile left side only slide stop lever. That has definitely been the sweet spot for me. YMMV.

I, too, converted the 92 style levers to decocker only just as I had the original levers. This causes no problems in either case and has been done by many, many people for years as pointed out by Whirlwind. As Mr. Langdon mentioned, the original and 92 style levers are identical internally to the gun, and differ only in their exterior appearance. Even the low-profile "stealth" decocker only levers have an identical cross-shaft to the others, including the hole for the safety detent and spring (not used of course as the stealth levers would never give you enough purchase to unsafe the weapon reliably).

The one difference that is noticeable between the combination safety/decock levers and the stealth levers which the factory sells as decocker only (aside from the ball and spring you removed) is that both the original and 92 style safety levers have an arm that pivots down into the frame when the levers are in the safe position and presses down on the trigger bar, disconnecting it from the hammer. This means that when the safety is engaged (or the levers are held down of you have converted them to decocker only) you have a "dead" trigger. You can squeeze the trigger, but it feels dead and the hammer will not move. This is a good thing in the case of a gun with a safety, as too many people have drawn their gun in a crisis and forgotten to unsafe it, and stood in terror squeezing their trigger for all they are worth but the gun won't go bang. With a dead trigger and the hammer not moving, it gives immediate feedback "Hey, the safety is on, if you want any action out of this thing, switch off the safety!" The factory decocker only levers do not have this arm, as there is no point to it. The shooter can't have forgotten to take the weapon off of safety, as there is no safety position possible. Therefore, if you were to hold the stealth levers down, you can still cock and drop the hammer via the trigger. But, just like all of the levers, when they are rotated down the hammer is blocked from striking the firing pin.

Long story short, I've shot over 7,000 rounds through my PX4 with the converted original levers or the converted 92 style levers but mostly the stealth decocker only levers without any gun-attributable malfunctions (a couple due to not knowing how to lubricate it properly early on and some poorly taper-crimped reloads). As long as you put the levers back in the gun properly you're fine.

As far as your concern about liability due to "modifying" your gun, let me begin by stating I am not a lawyer. Having pointed that out, are you aware that Beretta offers, or has offered these guns in a decocker only version and a double action only version without manual safeties? And as I have mentioned, they sell a set of levers which are explicitly designed to eliminate the manual safety from your gun and convert it to a decocker only model. Is this not all that you have done?

Generally speaking, I am of the opinion that this whole "never modify your defensive gun in any way or some prosecutor is going to have you for lunch" is yet another overblown internet trope. Bottom line, if one of your bullets winds up where it doesn't belong, your ass is grass whether the gun it came out of is bone stock or has all the latest whiz-bang go fast parts available. And if the bullet is justifiable, it's justified whether it came out of grandpa's hand-me-down .38 or the most operationally operator Glock that ever operated. Just make sure none of your modifications are going to contribute to one of your bullets winding up where it doesn't belong (i.e. do you really need that sweet 3 pound trigger on your carry gun?).

[JTQ]

I don't follow the logic behind swapping out the levers because you found the originals difficult to unsafe, but then converted the 92 style levers to decocker only (thus eliminating any concerns about unsafing the weapon, which could have been done with the original levers). However, I've been known to do a few things that left others scratching their heads, sometimes for the sole purpose of seeing other people's confusion. :cool:

I've got to admit, I thought the same thing when I read the OP. I was going to comment, but was sure I somehow wasn't understanding what the OP was saying.

[ppd1107]

I find the stock levers uncomfortable during rapid manipulation of the slide during emergency reloads and malfunction clearance drills. I off safe my Beretta 92 by clicking my thumb down which does not work with the stock Px4 levers. Not really sure why its confusing.

[Rick_ICT]

I find the stock levers uncomfortable during rapid manipulation of the slide during emergency reloads and malfunction clearance drills. I off safe my Beretta 92 by clicking my thumb down which does not work with the stock Px4 levers. Not really sure why its confusing.

Ah, well none of that is particularly confusing. It just wasn't in the OP, which I guess is why I was confused. It was merely a passing observation, no offense was intended. But since it appears my first paragraph was as far as you got, I won't take up any more of your bandwidth. Enjoy your Beretta, my sample of one has proven to be a spectacular gun and I hope yours is the same for you.

[JTQ]

I find the stock levers uncomfortable during rapid manipulation of the slide during emergency reloads and malfunction clearance drills. I off safe my Beretta 92 by clicking my thumb down which does not work with the stock Px4 levers. Not really sure why its confusing.
My confusion was why carry the 92FS or PX4 F model with the safety engaged, and then decide to swap out for a decocker? Just don't carry the 92FS or PX4 F model with the safety engaged. Why not just keep the safety off?

That's my confusion.

[ppd1107]

I have on occasion, knocked the safety on safe while reloading. This leads to a dead trigger when shooting after a reload.

[JTQ]

I guess I should have used the quote from your OP...

I found the stock safety levers uncomfortable and I could not off safe the pistol during my draw like I can with my 92 series pistols.
My question was regarding why not just carry the gun with the safety off, which would have given you the same thing on the draw as a decocker only set up that you were making the change to.

If it's a slide manipulation thing during reloads, that's fine, but it seemed like you were carrying your 92FS and PX4 with the safety's engaged.

[ppd1107]

I should have explained. For duty carry in an open holster I prefer to have a safety. For concealed carry I prefer a decocker only. Two reasons I purchased the Px4 was so I could have a 45 ACP pistol that operated like my 92 series pistols and that I could readily change between the two modes of carry.