Hi-Point Pistol Armorer's class

[3-7-77]

I am hosting a Hi-Point Armorer's course at the Missoula, MT Marriott on August 10, 11 and 12, 2016. Class certifies the attendee as a Hi-Point pistol armorer and provides an armorer's tool kit. Tuition is $575. If you are interested in learning more about your Hi-Point pistol, this class is for you. Please register at www.HiPointFirearms.com/classes2016/register.

[stingray]

Hi-Point, $575? April fools??

[TCinVA]

I'm in!

I am the foremost Hi-Point expert on the board, so...

[Hambo]

Count me in! Do we get to build our own Hi-Point?

[5pins]

Is the course similar to the Jimenez class I took last year?

[Nephrology]

Will there be opportunity to discuss milling the slide for a MRDS?

[LSP972]

You guys joke, but Tom Deeb, who was the company owner and recently passed away, would visit crime labs and actually conduct an "armorer's class". He even asked for input on how to make his pistols more user-friendly for firearms examiners (no, no details on that).

Tom was a great guy, and will be missed. He did pass control of the firm before he died of an unexpected heart attack, so the brand will continue on.

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[Hambo]

He even asked for input on how to make his pistols more user-friendly for firearms examiners (no, no details on that).


That really doesn't say anything good about the owner demographic.

[texasaggie2005]

http://youtu.be/KjQk244oW9c

[Ed L]

Are we going to have a consolidated thread for these type of posts?

[LSP972]

That really doesn't say anything good about the owner demographic.

Hey, what do you want? The guy was pro-LE, he was an ordinary businessman making a living. So perhaps you can 'splain to me what you mean by "not good owner demographic" ?

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[Ed L]

I am planning to buy an SP89 clone, so as to be able to get on my Sean Bean blaze ala the movie Ronin.

Since Texas allows open carry I am wondering if I should use a carry strap around my neck when toting the gun, or if I should see if Blackhawk can make me an custom Serpa to fit it.

http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/1998_Ronin/998RON_Sean_Bean_008.jpg

[hufnagel]

I'm in, but only if I get one of these as well, upon completion of the class.

https://www.slickguns.com/sites/default/files/d3f3244ba950894c738f0470d02b6e4c.jpg

[BehindBlueI's]

Hey, what do you want? The guy was pro-LE, he was an ordinary businessman making a living. So perhaps you can 'splain to me what you mean by "not good owner demographic" ?

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A lot of shit bricks use his guns. I think he means gun owners, not company owner.

[Duelist]

Will a new HiPoint pistol be provided with the tuition fee?

[BillSWPA]

Claude Werner has worked with a lot of single moms who barely have two nickels to rub together after paying rent and utilities, buying food, etc. I doubt he is the only one to be in a position of trying to help people in that circumstance. Unfortunately economics will also force them to live where they are more likely to be victimized. Cheap guns that work - even if they don't meet the standards we would normally like - serve an important purpose.

[Josh Runkle]

I am planning to buy an SP89 clone, so as to be able to get on my Sean Bean blaze ala the movie Ronin.

Since Texas allows open carry I am wondering if I should use a carry strap around my neck when toting the gun, or if I should see if Blackhawk can make me an custom Serpa to fit it.

http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/1998_Ronin/998RON_Sean_Bean_008.jpg

That picture shows an AOW, not a title 1 firearm.

[Josh Runkle]

To the OP:

I thought the proper disassembly for a high point was either a quick shake, or 5 rounds fired through the gun.

Proper lubrication is hanging it out the window during a car wash.

Proper re-assembly includes super glue, a large magnifying glass and many hours of spare time.

[Luke]

To the OP:

I thought the proper disassembly for a high point was either a quick shake, or 5 rounds fired through the gun.

Proper lubrication is hanging it out the window during a car wash.

Proper re-assembly includes super glue, a large magnifying glass and many hours of spare time.

Believe it or not, I think the high point pistols require quite a bit of beating with a hammer and punch to get them down

[hufnagel]

still one of the greatest set of posts ever on a blog.

[Hambo]

A lot of shit bricks use his guns. I think he means gun owners, not company owner.

Correct.

[LSP972]

A lot of shit bricks use his guns. I think he means gun owners, not company owner.


News flash… a lot of shit bricks use Glocks, Stigmas, Enhanced Stigmas, and Rugers too. In fact, we're seeing less and less Hi-Points being seized over the past year. LOTS more higher-end stuff, though.

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[LSP972]

Believe it or not, I think the high point pistols require quite a bit of beating with a hammer and punch to get them down

They do.

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[LSP972]

Claude Werner has worked with a lot of single moms who barely have two nickels to rub together after paying rent and utilities, buying food, etc. I doubt he is the only one to be in a position of trying to help people in that circumstance. Unfortunately economics will also force them to live where they are more likely to be victimized. Cheap guns that work - even if they don't meet the standards we would normally like - serve an important purpose.


Thank you. This was the driving force behind Tom's company in the first place.

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[nycnoob]

News flash… a lot of shit bricks use Glocks, Stigmas, Enhanced Stigmas, and Rugers too. In fact, we're seeing less and less Hi-Points being seized over the past year. LOTS more higher-end stuff, though.


What do you think is accounting for the change in perp hardware?

[LSP972]

What do you think is accounting for the change in perp hardware?


Attitudes and spending money. A lot of these thugs are getting their baby mommas or other no-record friends/acquaintances to buy the better guns. Hi-Points are heavy and clunky; Tyrone and LeRoy are discovering that a Glock or Stigma is lighter, handier… and has more prestige. "Prestige" is huge with these people.

And of course, we; the po-lice in general; are losing the so-called war on drugs (because the demand keeps going up- Chip and Muffy are finding that the black dealers are more dependable than their fellow yuppie dickheads), and even the street level dealers are making more money now.

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[23JAZ]

https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6919&stc=1

[Joe in PNG]

To the OP:

Proper lubrication is hanging it out the window during a car wash.


I thought one was supposed to use recycled generic Fireclean- after one finished frying up dinner.

[Sero Sed Serio]

I would have believed it if the location had been Detroit, Fresno, or Newark...

[BillSWPA]

If only someone we trust had done a 2000 round test of a Hi-Point C9 and published it on the internet where it would surely live forever...

ETA: That's what I get for being a smartass. I thought TC's test reports had been lost due to a database/hosting issue. I was wrong: http://www.gunnuts.net/2012/10/11/the-hi-point-challenge-completed/

I read this article as well as the 6 week article, and did not see how often the pistol was cleaned. That could have a huge effect on reliability. My Kimber 1st generation 1911 is a very reliable gun as long as I don't let it get over 500 rounds without cleaning - that is the point when grime in the extractor channel will start causing failures to feed. I would be curious to know what percentage of those malfunctions occurred within the first 100-150 rounds after cleaning verses several hundred rounds after a cleaning.

[BillSWPA]

From the penultimate paragraph in the Week 6 update (http://www.gunnuts.net/2012/10/04/hi-point-challenge-week-6/):

Good catch.

It would be interesting to know what happened when he went beyond that 200 round point as compared to prior to that point, and how he arrived at that number, since it seems to imply that he was not cleaning this often at first. Was he getting stoppages the whole time and they just started increasing at that point? Was it 100% reliable until a certain point and then stopped working?

[LSP972]

Here's another "data point".

Two years or so ago, a colleague went to the NFEA; the National Firearms Examiner Academy, hosted and administered by the ATF. This is a six-month school where the student gets immersed (slammed, really) with the various methods/etc. of the trade. IOW, detailed science. There are several involved projects one must do; in addition to selecting and writing the parameters, etc.

For her first one, my colleague chose breech face marking interpretations on the Hi-Point C9. The Firearms Examination Unit supervisor at our lab was friends with Tom Deeb, and he graciously provided one C9 barrelled frame and five different slides. All of the Hi-Point guns are blow-backs, with the barrels mounted semi-permanently to the frame.

Now, one of the sensible things ATF does on these big projects is allow someone to do the grunt work for the student, back at their home lab. I got selected for the joyful task of firing 500 rounds through that C9; 100 per slide. Those 500 cartridge cases were then sorted into an AFTE-certified test protocol. Thank goodness we weren't using the bullets; more on why in a moment.

The procedure was simple; mount a slide and shoot 100 rounds of Federal AE 115gr ball through it, dismount that slide, clean the bore with a nylon brush (actually a Glock bore brush, which I thought a bit funny), throw on some oil, mount the next slide, shoot 100 rounds through it, rinse and repeat. It took me two days, because, you know… science. I had to be meticulous in keeping everything straight.

I won't bore you with all the science stuff (and cannot talk about most of it anyway), but there are two key points here. First, I experienced very few malfunctions. Second, at the end of the test, the barrel was pretty close to being a smooth bore. I didn't get a chance to do any before/after groups, although I will say that some C9s actually print pretty well. The sheriff's office range I worked at for a while after retiring from LSP had one that we would use to shame problem shooters blaming their issue pistol. It functioned just fine, last time I shot it; and, shot from barricade supported at 25 yards, would stay in the nine ring of a B-8 center.

Anyway, we found that bore issue interesting. Sure, these guns are made of pot metal, but we talked to Tom about this afterward and he said that had to be an anamoly, he used decent steel for the barrels. We returned the barreled frame and five slides to Hi-Point, the supervisor said Tom was going to look into it, etc. I dunno what the outcome was, because I never asked due to not really giving a shit. I'll try to remember to ask next week.

So, make of that what you will. This study was published in the AFTE Journal last year, for those who might be interested and have access to that publication. I believe I even got an honorable mention as Igor The Trigger Puller…:D


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[BillSWPA]

LSP972, thanks for the additional data point.

At the risk of thread drift, why was a nylon brush selected? I used to use the supplied rod and brush to clean my Glocks. I stopped after I cleaned a Glock that I had previously cleaned using the Glock cleaning supplies, and had not shot since cleaning, using a brass .38/9mm jag and a bronze brush. I got all kinds of grime out of what I had thought was a clean gun.

[LSP972]

At the risk of thread drift, why was a nylon brush selected?

Habit. When test-firing a gun to get usable bullets for forensic comparison, even using a softer-than-steel bore brush can introduce additional scratches/etc. that make the scope work that much more tedious. It won't change anything enough to alter the exam- so anybody hoping this was another CSI tip to avoid getting caught, forget it :cool: - but it can annoy the person who does the scope work… and we have enough uncontrollable annoyances as it is in this gig. This one is controllable.

So even though we weren't using the bullets, I cleaned with nylon out of habit. Agreed, bronze and/or copper brushes and solvent does wonders for a grimy/neglected bore. The test C9 was new production, proof-fired only prior to my shooting it. So that wasn't an issue here.

.

[UNK]

Great user name... Igor the Trigger Puller...I think it fits you :p


Here's another "data point".

Two years or so ago, a colleague went to the NFEA; the National Firearms Examiner Academy, hosted and administered by the ATF. This is a six-month school where the student gets immersed (slammed, really) with the various methods/etc. of the trade. IOW, detailed science. There are several involved projects one must do; in addition to selecting and writing the parameters, etc.

For her first one, my colleague chose breech face marking interpretations on the Hi-Point C9. The Firearms Examination Unit supervisor at our lab was friends with Tom Deeb, and he graciously provided one C9 barrelled frame and five different slides. All of the Hi-Point guns are blow-backs, with the barrels mounted semi-permanently to the frame.

Now, one of the sensible things ATF does on these big projects is allow someone to do the grunt work for the student, back at their home lab. I got selected for the joyful task of firing 500 rounds through that C9; 100 per slide. Those 500 cartridge cases were then sorted into an AFTE-certified test protocol. Thank goodness we weren't using the bullets; more on why in a moment.

The procedure was simple; mount a slide and shoot 100 rounds of Federal AE 115gr ball through it, dismount that slide, clean the bore with a nylon brush (actually a Glock bore brush, which I thought a bit funny), throw on some oil, mount the next slide, shoot 100 rounds through it, rinse and repeat. It took me two days, because, you know… science. I had to be meticulous in keeping everything straight.

I won't bore you with all the science stuff (and cannot talk about most of it anyway), but there are two key points here. First, I experienced very few malfunctions. Second, at the end of the test, the barrel was pretty close to being a smooth bore. I didn't get a chance to do any before/after groups, although I will say that some C9s actually print pretty well. The sheriff's office range I worked at for a while after retiring from LSP had one that we would use to shame problem shooters blaming their issue pistol. It functioned just fine, last time I shot it; and, shot from barricade supported at 25 yards, would stay in the nine ring of a B-8 center.

Anyway, we found that bore issue interesting. Sure, these guns are made of pot metal, but we talked to Tom about this afterward and he said that had to be an anamoly, he used decent steel for the barrels. We returned the barreled frame and five slides to Hi-Point, the supervisor said Tom was going to look into it, etc. I dunno what the outcome was, because I never asked due to not really giving a shit. I'll try to remember to ask next week.

So, make of that what you will. This study was published in the AFTE Journal last year, for those who might be interested and have access to that publication. I believe I even got an honorable mention as Igor The Trigger Puller…:D


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[jh9]

Great user name... Igor the Trigger Puller...I think it fits

"It's pronounced EYE-gor."

what? no mel brooks fans here? seriously?