H&K Wins CSASS competition for the M110E1

[HCM]

HK has won the competition for the U.S. Army's Compact M110 system, the Compact Semi-Automatic Sniper System (CSASS) program.

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http://soldiersystems.net/2016/03/31/rumor-has-it-hk-wins-csass/


http://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract-View/Article/710219

The OSS Suppressor and HK's reverse keymod are interesting choices. Is this the first "official" adoption of Keymod by the U.S. Military ?

I'm not a suppressor expert but I've shot an OSS on a select fire Tavor as was impressed.

Does anyone know if this rifle will use HK's proprietary 417 mags or will it use the existing M110 (KAC/PMAG) pattern mags ?

Supposedly, Sphur makes a HK lower that accepts KAC mags?

Will this rifle be made in Germany? Could this help push HK towards production in the U.S.?

[LittleLebowski]

I'm guessing they just fucked up on the reverse Keymod thing (the picture shown).

[Gray222]

Is this the specific rifle they tested?

http://hk-usa.com/hk-models/mr762a1lrp/

Local shop has a similar one, gata say its heavy as hell and was not cheap.

[El Cid]

I'm guessing they just fucked up on the reverse Keymod thing (the picture shown).

Every pic I've seen of the HK rifle w the OSS can the last couple years has their proprietary, backwards, oversize KM ripoff. Hopefully there is a plan to standardize on something (my vote would be for M-lok but they don't care what I like). Did the RFP have any guidance about attaching accessories? Has anyone even seen the RFP?

[HCM]

So apparently the HK CSASS uses the 417 mag.

So now the US military going to have four different 7.62x51mm pattern magazines in the system? (M14, SR-25, SCAR 17, HK417.)

[LOKNLOD]

I'm guessing they just fucked up on the reverse Keymod thing (the picture shown).


Every pic I've seen of the HK rifle w the OSS can the last couple years has their proprietary, backwards, oversize KM ripoff.


Maybe it's a Freudian thing; they like their dicks incoming and slightly larger than normal.

[El Cid]

Anyone pick up on this feature? I'm wondering how they did so and if there is a performance or reliability cost. The link is to the HK G28 and their CSASS submission was the G28E1.

"Firing pin/drop safety (no primer marking/firing out of battery)"

From here: http://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/military/precision-rifles/g28/g28/overview.html

[LittleLebowski]

Anyone pick up on this feature? I'm wondering how they did so and if there is a performance or reliability cost. The link is to the HK G28 and their CSASS submission was the G28E1.

"Firing pin/drop safety (no primer marking/firing out of battery)"

From here: http://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/military/precision-rifles/g28/g28/overview.html

I think that is a spring on the firing pin, not for certain.

[Peally]

A tiny German leprechaun in the receiver has an accelerometer. When he detects a fall he screams "NOT TODAY LADDIE!" and grabs on to the firing pin for dear life. Over-engineered, heavy, expensive, but effective.






It's a slow day at work.

[Lester Polfus]

A tiny German leprechaun in the receiver has an accelerometer. When he detects a fall he screams "NOT TODAY LADDIE!" and grabs on to the firing pin for dear life. Over-engineered, heavy, expensive, but effective.






It's a slow day at work.

Part of the maintenance routine for the rifle will be injecting 10cc of a good beer into a port on the side of the upper receiver so the tiny German leprechaun will stay alive and motivated.

Please feel free to start arguing about the best brand of beer to inject in your rifle now. We've done the lube thing to death.

[El Cid]

I think that is a spring on the firing pin, not for certain.

My PredatAR 762 has a spring on the pin. Didn't know of that made it drop safe though.

[Sal Picante]

I'm guessing they just fucked up on the reverse Keymod thing (the picture shown).

First backwards bullets, now backwards keymod... SMH. it should be KH from now on...

[Odin Bravo One]

You suck. HK hates you. This includes the US Military and domestic LE, regardless of how much money you pump into their company and the German economy. This is FAR from the first HK product used by the military, and will be in significantly lower numbers than any previous products purchased. HK won't move shit to the US except the guns and accessories it imports. It will use a proprietary magazine for the exact same reason the SCAR does. Same for the KeyMod retardaption. And everything else they suckered the Army into buying with this brilliant idea.

As a tax payer, every US Citizen should be furious at the methodology for military RDT&E and subsequent procurement of individual weapons. If you saw it at the levels of regimental sized satcom shit, we would already be shooting in the second civil war. The military, and especially the Army, fucks up even the wettest dreams and you still wake up with a raging hangover and a fugly wanting breakfast.

[Default.mp3]

I would like to point out that the MRS (Modular Rail System) AKA "backwards KeyMod" is a purely H&K USA creation. H&K Germany's HKey is oriented like regular KeyMod:
http://i.imgbox.com/tx37BLIC.jpg (http://www.germangunworks.com/heckler-koch-handguard-hk243-anti-mirage-hkey-ral8000-p-1163.html)
http://i.imgbox.com/uR7g6SFo.png (http://imgbox.com/uR7g6SFo)
http://i.imgbox.com/FBzoJVvt.png (http://imgbox.com/FBzoJVvt)
http://i.imgbox.com/7IJ14H77.jpg (http://imgbox.com/7IJ14H77)
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/IMG_7986-0.jpg

[ragnar_d]

Anyone pick up on this feature? I'm wondering how they did so and if there is a performance or reliability cost. The link is to the HK G28 and their CSASS submission was the G28E1.

"Firing pin/drop safety (no primer marking/firing out of battery)"

From here: http://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/military/precision-rifles/g28/g28/overview.html


I think that is a spring on the firing pin, not for certain.

It's the spring on the firing pin combined with the little lever that is pinned at the top of the bolt carrier:
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/attachments/hk-long-gun-talk/20089d1396086812-hk243-civi-g36-video-nsvuhh.jpg
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/attachments/hk-long-gun-talk/20088d1396086798-hk243-civi-g36-video-3hdqq.jpg

[El Cid]

It's the spring on the firing pin combined with the little lever that is pinned at the top of the bolt carrier:
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/attachments/hk-long-gun-talk/20089d1396086812-hk243-civi-g36-video-nsvuhh.jpg
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/attachments/hk-long-gun-talk/20088d1396086798-hk243-civi-g36-video-3hdqq.jpg
Interesting - thanks!

[Odin Bravo One]

I would like to point out that the MRS (Modular Rail System) AKA "backwards KeyMod" is a purely H&K USA creation. H&K Germany's HKey is oriented like regular KeyMod:]

Very likely thanks to some obscure and intentionally written RD to give a pre-selected/desired end product a specific advantage entering the "Fair & Unbiased Downselect" equipment comparison. Quite common when a unit wants a specific piece of gear but cannot legally ask for that specific piece of gear.

[Sigfan26]

Soooo... The solution is throw more crap in the gun to rectify an issue that is rectified by simply not chambering the same round over and over. Makes perfect sense[emoji57]

[HCM]

Soooo... The solution is throw more crap in the gun to rectify an issue that is rectified by simply not chambering the same round over and over. Makes perfect sense[emoji57]

You can slam fire an on safe AR with a chamber round. It not easy and somewhat ammo dependent but it's possible.

[Sigfan26]

You can slam fire an on safe AR with a chamber round. It not easy and somewhat ammo dependent but it's possible.

I've heard that... And purposefully chambered the same round 10 times to see how possible it was on the range. It's a theoretical problem with an overly complicated hardware solution if you use good quality ammo (not SumDudes reloads)

[Luke]

I've heard that... And purposefully chambered the same round 10 times to see how possible it was on the range. It's a theoretical problem with an overly complicated hardware solution if you use good quality ammo (not SumDudes reloads)


I think the main issue with re chambering is not fear of a ND but rather creating divots in the primer making it harder and getting a FTF when you need a bang.

[El Cid]

I think the main issue with re chambering is not fear of a ND but rather creating divots in the primer making it harder and getting a FTF when you need a bang.

That's my main concern. Some folks will say only chamber a round once. Some say you can do it 5 times. It's not worth the risk to me so I end up with loose, once chambered rounds in my vehicle after any arrest, search warrant, etc. From there they go into my range bag. They've always gone bang - but Mr Murphy tends to prefer real world ops over training in my experience.

[Sigfan26]

I think the main issue with re chambering is not fear of a ND but rather creating divots in the primer making it harder and getting a FTF when you need a bang.

It is... But, not chambering the same round repeatedly solves the issue. The fix does not negate the fact that you should not chamber the same round repeatedly based on the fact that one should still worry about bullet set back

[HCM]

I've heard that... And purposefully chambered the same round 10 times to see how possible it was on the range. It's a theoretical problem with an overly complicated hardware solution if you use good quality ammo (not SumDudes reloads)

Luke and El Cid correct about repeated re-chambering causing dead primer issues rather than slam fires.

I'm not talking about re- clambering a round or bullet set back- I'm talking about a very hard strike to the butt or high fall Landing on the butt causing a chambered round to fire, even with the manual safety engaged. This was demo'ed in my agency Armorer school with an M4 and a federal factory .223 round which had the bullet pulled and powder removed.

Does it mean an AR needs a firing pin safety? Not necessarily but users need to be aware ARs and Remington 870 Shotguns are not 100% drop safe with a round in the chamber. That's a fact.

I don't know if any of the other CSASS submissions had firing pin safeties but I doubt it. I don't think it was a requirement, it could just be a. German thing Mo parts, mo complex = Mo' beta. Or, as Sean said it could have been a back door way to select the The One.

[Duelist]

Luke and El Cid correct about repeated re-chambering causing dead primer issues rather than slam fires.

I'm not talking about re- clambering a round or bullet set back- I'm talking about a very hard strike to the butt or high fall Landing on the butt causing a chambered round to fire, even with the manual safety engaged. This was demo'ed in my agency Armorer school with an M4 and a federal factory .223 round which had the bullet pulled and powder removed.

Does it mean an AR needs a firing pin safety? Not necessarily but users need to be aware ARs and Remington 870 Shotguns are not 100% drop safe with a round in the chamber. That's a fact.

I don't know if any of the other CSASS submissions had firing pin safeties but I doubt it. I don't think it was a requirement, it could just be a. German thing Mo parts, mo complex = Mo' beta. Or, as Sean said it could have been a back door way to select the The One.

The hard-strike discharge was unintentionally demo'd in front of me one day in Afghanistan when a soldier fresh in from an op jumped down out of the back of the large truck he'd been in, landed hard on the concrete pad, and the slung rifle hit the ground with him and discharged. Nobody got hurt. They started making more of an effort to make sure everybody cleared their chambers when coming back inside the wire.

[David Pennington]

The original 416s had slam fire issues with some commercial ammunition. I was actually present when this was discovered when a federal agency had slam fires with Hornady TAP during a training course. It wasn't an issue with USGI MK262 at the same event. That's where the firing pin safety thingy came from on the 416s.

ETA It's been a decade but I believe I remember the 416 was sprung heavier than a Colt M4 and also had a heavier firing pin and this combo led to the slam firing. But, again, that's based off of a decade old memory.

[Ed L]

The HK416 has a much bigger firing pin than a standard AR. They now have a spring around the firing pin. I believe these were added fairly early into the program, but some were fielded without them.