Front Sights and Tritium Dots (from DotW 3 thread)

[Prdator]

Nice job Todd!!!
So do you think that the accuracy of the P30 gives it the edge over the Glock on DT? Or just your ability to shoot it better?
FWIW I plan to try it at 7yds as well.

[ToddG]

P -- I think the trigger of the P30 works better for me, and I also had a much thinner front sight on my pistol with the P30. I did another drill today that will be a DotW before the year is out ("Sweet 16") and around 10-11yd, I have a very difficult time seeing the 2" dot over or through the sights.

[Serpico1985]

Todd,

If the thinner Heinie sight lets you shoot more percisly on drills like the dot torture, do you find that you can be faster with the larger HD sights? For instance it looked like you were blazing on that 3 shot per tripple nickle. Any idea what your splits were on that one?

Edited to add: If this is too far off topic disregard!

[Prdator]

P -- I think the trigger of the P30 works better for me, and I also had a much thinner front sight on my pistol with the P30. I did another drill today that will be a DotW before the year is out ("Sweet 16") and around 10-11yd, I have a very difficult time seeing the 2" dot over or through the sights.

Ah, that makes perfect sense. The Trigger on the Glocks has been something I've Never found the "perfect" setup for me.

Oh and FWIW I think the DotW is Awesome!!!

[ToddG]

Serpico -- I think the Trij HD sight is very easy to see and track at maximum speed. Having said that, I'm probably going to try something more conventional for the next month or so to evaluate it in comparison to the HD.

I'm afraid I didn't write down any specifics from the Triple Nickel run. Someone with video editing software and too much time on his hands might be able to figure it out. :cool:

[Prdator]

Serpico -- I think the Trij HD sight is very easy to see and track at maximum speed. Having said that, I'm probably going to try something more conventional for the next month or so to evaluate it in comparison to the HD.



What are you thinking of trying? Want to try a set of operator pros?

[ToddG]

What are you thinking of trying? Want to try a set of operator pros?

PM sent.

[zRxz]

Defoor sights?

[fuse]

Defoor sights?

This, i doubt.

[ToddG]

Defoor sights?

No. The Defoor sights are awesome if you don't want tritium, but I'm religious about having night sights.

I've got a set of the Warren/Sevigny 2-dot carry sights that ATF chose for their G22s and G27s, and I've been thinking about running them for a month to see how they compare to the Trij HD sights.

[JConn]

No. The Defoor sights are awesome if you don't want tritium, but I'm religious about having night sights.

I've got a set of the Warren/Sevigny 2-dot carry sights that ATF chose for their G22s and G27s, and I've been thinking about running them for a month to see how they compare to the Trij HD sights.

Just put a set on my 19. I'm pretty excited to see how they work for you.

[NickA]

No. The Defoor sights are awesome if you don't want tritium, but I'm religious about having night sights.

I've got a set of the Warren/Sevigny 2-dot carry sights that ATF chose for their G22s and G27s, and I've been thinking about running them for a month to see how they compare to the Trij HD sights.

Doesn't sound like you're interested but FWIW Ameriglo has a slightly wider (. 125) tritium front that works with the Defoor rear, that's what I have on my G19.
While we're at it- what width front seems to work best for you?

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[ToddG]

While the front-only tritium works fine on the range and in most competition settings, it really isn't adequate when you start playing around in realistic variable lighting conditions. It's very easy for me to set up a situation in which you can positively identify a target but not have an adequate sight picture with just a front dot.

As for a favorite front sight width, I don't think you can answer that in a vacuum. The rear notch width plays a serious role in that. The ratio between the two (as well as, to a lesser extent, the sight radius of the gun) is what matters most. The only time the thick HD front sight is a hindrance is when I'm trying to hit something small at distance. But without some real side by side comparisons, it's hard to draw too many conclusions.

[Mr_White]

It's very easy for me to set up a situation in which you can positively identify a target but not have an adequate sight picture with just a front dot.

Todd, would you mind expanding on this a bit? What type/direction of lighting conditions, what threat cues?

I ask because I have always been in the "I shall always use night sights" camp, but have recently become enamored with plain black sights. Heresy, I know, especially from my long-held position on night sights. But advocacy of black sights from a couple of trainers with btdt experience has caused me to re-evaluate my position on night sights vs. black sights.

In evaluating the new sights vs. my old night sights, I attempted to set up the situation you described (able to ID threat, but not able to see sights well enough to hit.) What I found was that as the lighting diminished to the point that I wasn't able to see the sights, I also could not see more detail from the threat than, there was a silhouette there. I couldn't ID it to my satisfaction. I do not for a moment rule out that such a situation could exist, I simply did not locate that situation in my very low-speed, non-dynamic evaluation.

[JV_]

OrigamiAK: http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1811-Sights&p=28805&viewfull=1#post28805

[ToddG]

Thanks for the link, JV.

FWIW, I note a significant divergence between "BTDT military guys" who are used to running IR, white light, and/or night vision with a long gun all the time and "BTDT law enforcement guys" who almost unanimously advocate night sights on their pistols, even if they have white light available.

I don't run around with an ATPIAL on my pistol so...

[Mr_White]

Todd,

So, the lighting condition where you've been able to ID threat but not see non-night sights is a strongly backlit threat/target? Have you found any other lighting conditions that led to the same problem? What were the characteristics of the target that indicated it was a threat? Blank cardboard silhouette vs. cardboard silhouette with open hands painted on? (You referenced indoor S&W Nationals in the other thread.)

One of the trainers I know of who advocates black sights does indeed have a military background. Two other ones have LE backgrounds.

Thank you for taking the time to answer! I appreciate it.

[ToddG]

You have to think past what you can set up on a static range.

How about the guy who just shot at you and then moved a few steps into shadow?

How about the guy who is running toward your kid's room down a dark hallway?

Looking around the room I'm in, there are all sorts of objects that are partially in the light and partially in shadow. I can see my dog's rear feet very clearly, but the rest of her body is a silhouette. The white door to the room is lit well enough for me to see the door handle, but when I bring three fingertips up in a "sight picture" I can't begin to see where they're pointed... and my fingertips are a lot more reflective than matte black sights.

And those are just cases where tritium sights are the difference between a sight picture and no sight picture. LE agencies have been demonstrating for years that folks shoot more accurately and faster in low light with night sights.

I see it this way: all-black sights are better under ideal conditions for extremely difficult shots whereas tritium sights are better under realistic conditions for realistic shots. If someone really finds two tiny little tritium lenses so overwhelmingly distracting in bright light that it impacts his shooting, then I guess he needs to decide where his priorities lie. For me, I've never had a problem shooting with trit.

[Mr_White]

Thank you for the input Todd. I've never felt I had a problem shooting with nights sights (sights with dots on them) either, but then I tried some plain black sights and said, "Wow, I really love this super clean sight picture!" I think I finally see what all those, ahem, competition people, have been talking about with the whole 'less visual confusion at speed' thing. It remains to be seen just how much performance difference that makes for me, in comparison to how much loss of broad-circumstance capability they also carry.

[wicked_police]

I've been using Defoor sights on my Gen4 G17 for a while now. Keeping in mind it's just my range/game gun, I love them.

I also got a chance to try the Hackathorn sights almost 2 weeks ago during Ken's class in Carthage NC. And they were awesome. The red front sight with tritium was really visible and fast during the day, and I think it contributed to me getting some decent groups during the low light portion of the class as well.

I'm going to try and get a set soon....

Oh, fwiw, my work gun (S&W 5946) has the traditional 3 dot tritium sights.