5.56 Suppressed Questions

[Matt O]

So, with 41P looming on the horizon, I, like most people, have been fast tracking my NFA purchases. So far I've form 1'd two SBR's (one for 300 blk and one for 5.56) and purchased a Rugged Surge that is currently at Hansohn awaiting pick-up.

The general advice from those more knowledgable about suppressors than I (hat-tip LL) seems to be, get a rimfire suppressor and then one or multiple centerfire rifle suppressors as funds/interests allow. I initially thought, I'll get a rimfire suppressor (about to order a Dead Air Mask), a 30 cal suppressor for the 300 blk and a 5.56 suppressor for the other SBR. Now that I'm to the point of deciding whether to get the 5.56 suppressor, however, I'm beginning to wonder if this is a purchase that makes sense and has a specific use or am I just doing this because I'm caught up in getting NFA purchases in, potentially unnecessary ones, before the 41P deadline?

I realize that part of that question is a personal one for me to decide, but in general, given that 5.56 isn't hearing safe when suppressed, is the juice worth the squeeze? Is this just a fun/novelty item? Do people usually shoot their SBR's suppressed vs unsuppressed?

If relevant, I'm leaning towards an 11.5 or 12.5 length upper to function as a general purpose carbine.

[LittleLebowski]

If budget is an issue, just get a 7.62 can and a rimfire can. Sure, there's sometimes a 1-3-ish decibel different between a dedicated 5.56 can and a 7.62 can on a 5.56 host. Does it actually matter? Nope. It's still unsafe for hearing.

Now if you have the money, it's a lot easier to have dedicated, caliber specific cans. Depends on how much you use them. If you're a hunter and like to pop prairie dogs with your 22-ish caliber centerfire but then shoot deer with a 7.62/6.5-ish rifle and do both frequently, get both. If you hit the range with a suppressor a few times a year, hunt a little, and maybe take one-two carbine classes a year, the 7.62 can will serve you well for those tasks.

Just to throw a monkey wrench into the mix, if you do family get togethers or teach newbies, two rimfire cans is something I recommend and I practice what I preach. If you don't have a place for the next few years where you can shoot outdoors and suppressed, wait and see what comes up with regards to new suppressors in say five years when you're in a better geographic location for shooting and spend the saved money on reloading/stacking ammo deep for the upcoming Hillary presidency (sorry, I'm a pessimist).

No matter what decision you arrive at, make it soon. The elections are coming, we are about to lose the Supreme Court.

[rob_s]

5 years ago I'd have told you to get caliber-specific cans. As my experience has grown, my opinion on cans has changed, and the market has evolved, I'd now tell you to get a <7" OAL 7.62 can, the lighter the better, with QD mounts in brake and FH in 5.56 and 7.62. If they sell a FH 7.62 mount with a commie pitch to install on an AK then even better.

I've been leaning towards the Silencerco Omega (https://silencerco.com/silencers/omega/?mc_cid=319ea0ee62&mc_eid=8726e4255d), but recently shifted my interest to the Thunderbeast Ultra 7 (https://thunderbeastarms.com/products/ultra-7). This is in part because I never did like that stupid silencer brake on the end of the Omega, and that TB is claiming <10 oz. now on the QD version of the can.

Rimfire cans are cheap enough I'd probably get two as well. and unless you have a specific need for .17 or .22 magnum, I'd get just about the least expensive take-apart cans you can find. Personally, I already have one .22 non-take-apart can so I'm shopping for a .22 magnum-rated take-apart can right now myself.

[Matt O]

Well thankfully the 7.62 suppressor box is checked. I just need to make time to drive down to Hansohn and pick the darn thing up. A rimfire suppressor (or two) definitely makes sense to me even though I don't have any options for shooting it outside right now. They are inexpensive enough that I could justify picking one up for when we move the heck out of Northern Virginia.

Where I begin to hesitate is dropping $1k to have a dedicated suppressor for a 5.56 carbine when I still can't quite figure out what the point of suppressing 5.56 is. Is an 11.5 or 12.5 length barrel with flash hider significantly more obnoxious than a 16" carbine? I'm also slightly worried about gas blow back being a lefty when it comes to long guns.

[rob_s]

Appologies on not realizing you already had the .308 can covered. I had no idea what a "rugged surge" was.

Is there some reason you don't want to stick the Surge on a 5.56, or a benefit you think you'll be getting with the 5.56 can that the Surge won't provide?

[LittleLebowski]

W
Where I begin to hesitate is dropping $1k to have a dedicated suppressor for a 5.56 carbine when I still can't quite figure out what the point of suppressing 5.56 is. Is an 11.5 or 12.5 length barrel with flash hider significantly more obnoxious than a 16" carbine?

Not that bad.


I'm also slightly worried about gas blow back being a lefty when it comes to long guns.

Just. Buy. An. Adjustable. Gas. Block.

[Matt O]

Appologies on not realizing you already had the .308 can covered. I had no idea what a "rugged surge" was.

Is there some reason you don't want to stick the Surge on a 5.56, or a benefit you think you'll be getting with the 5.56 can that the Surge won't provide?

No, I have no issues with that at all. Apologies if it was unclear, but my reference to "5.56" has to do with ascertaining the merits, or lack thereof, of suppressing that caliber rather than a reference to, for example, 5.56-only cans. I have no problem in using a 7.62 can on a 5.56 and I got the Surge so that, if I only ended up getting one centerfire rifle can, it would cover all my needs. What I still don't quite understand, and perhaps I'm just missing something, is the general point in suppressing 5.56 as a cartridge. If there's a specific and tangible benefit, I'd then consider purchasing another suppressor to handle that need. If it isn't worth it and then I'd just pop the Surge on there when/if if the occasional need arose.


Not that bad.

Just. Buy. An. Adjustable. Gas. Block.

Got it. ;)

[Josh Runkle]

I'm not that big of a fan of dual usage of suppressors (aside from things like using .300 win mag/.308/.300 BLK) My reasoning is that I shoot a lot (like most of us here do) and have already fouled up suppressors that are dedicated suppressors. Cleaning never entirely removes everything. So, think of it like this:

Your .30 cal suppressor gets extra duty of having a lot more rounds through it. You keep cleaning it or whatever, but eventually, the inside of the suppressor shrinks with time as the "walls" gradually build up. Then, eventually you shoot .308 through it one day and you have an over pressure issue (boyle's law if I remember correctly...feel free to correct me). That over pressure issue destroys your can.

Now, if you shoot a few hundred rounds of .308 and a few hundred of 5.56 every year, this may never be an issue for you.

However, if you take 5 classes and practice a bunch one year and shoot 10k rounds, then shoot a few hundred the next year, then 4K the next year, then a few hundred the next year, then take 3 classes the next year...well...you can see how that will start to wear down on one suppressor designed for just one caliber. But, if you have that kind of schedule, and you add in shooting other calibers during range sessions, then you are really shooting a lot more rounds through it than you realize. Also, you might have a very good warranty, or the company does a great job at fixing/repairing stuff, but they may not even be around 10 years from now, or the parts/availability to repair may not be there.

3 of my favorite suppressors can no longer be repaired by the companies that made them. 2 of those suppressors are technology from only 5-7 years ago. 1 is from about 20 years ago.

You might shoot low round counts, but the suppressor will probably be something you plan on keeping well past a gun or a barrel.

I recommend buying a dedicated suppressor for whatever you shoot most, and then passing on trying to get a one-size-fits all. Unless you shoot .308 really regularly, or 300 BLK regularly, then I would just buy a couple .22 suppressors, a good 9mm can and good 5.56 can (unless you shoot a different rifle caliber more often).

[Unobtanium]

I like caliber specific "mini" cans.

[El Cid]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is POI shift. Moving a can from host to host will likely require the shooter to zero the rifle each time. I got a Surefire 5.56 can several years ago and the POI shift was dramatic - enough that I needed to decide to zero with or without. As nice as it would be to justify my purchase by saying I can use it on several rifles, I will realistically put it on one, zero it and leave it.




I've been leaning towards the Silencerco Omega (https://silencerco.com/silencers/omega/?mc_cid=319ea0ee62&mc_eid=8726e4255d), but recently shifted my interest to the Thunderbeast Ultra 7 (https://thunderbeastarms.com/products/ultra-7). This is in part because I never did like that stupid silencer brake on the end of the Omega, and that TB is claiming <10 oz. now on the QD version of the can.

Rob, not sure if you know this, but you don't have to get the muzzle brake end cap on the Omega. I ordered mine with a flat end cap and the thread-on mount in place of a QD. Saved me a good chunk of change.

[Al T.]

Is an 11.5 or 12.5 length barrel with flash hider significantly more obnoxious than a 16" carbine?

IMHO, yes. Buddy has a SBR that we shot prior to his can getting here, way too obnoxious for me. YMMV and all of that...

[BWT]

I would take a .30 cal suppressor because of the minute difference (if any with changeable end cap down a size); that'll handle the higher pressure of the 5.56mm round as well because of the increased internal volume of .30 cal suppressors.

I don't know that I'd buy a 5.56mm suppressor at all.

Just my $.02.

I'd use the .30 cal can on both 5.56mm and 7.62, and if you're looking for another silencer; I'd go with something for a centerfire pistol. 9mm seems to be the most optimal and could be used on a pistol caliber carbine at some point.

That's if you're looking just to acquire stuff.

God Bless,

Brandon

ETA: I forgot to mention. Yes, yes a 12.5'' or 11.5'' will put out more muzzle blast than a 16''. Shooting XM193 out of a 12.5'' put out an impressive fireball and was moving debris/carbon/casings on the floor in front of the stall we were shooting out of.

6807

.223 Rem Wolf was a different story but full power 5.56mm felt good. I always plug and muff. The 16'' Mid-length next to it did not put out as much muzzle blast or any flash.

By the way, that's with an A2 Flash Hider.

ETA 2:

Three things to consider about the above though. The SBR barrel was still almost inside the stall which increased concussion (and then directed it forward and back) and the range was dimly lit (thus exacerbating the flash). It was a cool picture to capture; we were out just shooting (which I don't do nearly as often these days) and dragged out some guns that haven't been shot in years and some for rough zero'ing. I don't know if XM193 uses any flash suppressant (or at least the Lake City XM193 anyway).

[StraitR]

I like caliber specific "mini" cans.

I like the length, subsequent weight and overall look of mini cans, but they give up quite a bit in actual suppression. Then again, my main suppressor focus is hunting. I don't need to be quiet on a range or at a class, where maybe 10% of everyone else is shooting suppressed.

I bought the Omega last July, and finally picked it up last month. For my purposes, it's perfect, and I would buy it again today if making the same choice. I don't care for the brake on the end, so I purchased both the 5.56 and the 7.62 flat endcaps. It's much quieter than my buddies SDN-6 (both shooting 5.56), but that's the only can I've shot it next to for comparison. It faired pretty well HERE (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19640-Ever-want-to-compare-an-Specwar-Omega-Sandman-Surge-YHM-OSS-all-at-once) too. Everyone hears things a little differently, and tone can be subjective.

Lot's of good choices out there right now, just depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

I also bought a Sparrow at the same time. I shoot a buttload of 22, so durability and ease of maintenance were my main goals. If I were looking for a second rimfire can today, I'd probably go with the Mask. It's disgustingly quiet.

All that said, there are times already that I wish I had a dedicated 5.56 can just for general blasting, and a mini would be perfect. Ironically, I was on SiCo's website today looking at the Specwar 556K and thought, "hmmm, I wish it were a bit shorter". :p

[CCT125US]

I'm not that big of a fan of dual usage of suppressors (aside from things like using .300 win mag/.308/.300 BLK) My reasoning is that I shoot a lot (like most of us here do) and have already fouled up suppressors that are dedicated suppressors. Cleaning never entirely removes everything. So, think of it like this:

Your .30 cal suppressor gets extra duty of having a lot more rounds through it. You keep cleaning it or whatever, but eventually, the inside of the suppressor shrinks with time as the "walls" gradually build up. Then, eventually you shoot .308 through it one day and you have an over pressure issue (boyle's law if I remember correctly...feel free to correct me). That over pressure issue destroys your can.

Now, if you shoot a few hundred rounds of .308 and a few hundred of 5.56 every year, this may never be an issue for you.

However, if you take 5 classes and practice a bunch one year and shoot 10k rounds, then shoot a few hundred the next year, then 4K the next year, then a few hundred the next year, then take 3 classes the next year...well...you can see how that will start to wear down on one suppressor designed for just one caliber. But, if you have that kind of schedule, and you add in shooting other calibers during range sessions, then you are really shooting a lot more rounds through it than you realize. Also, you might have a very good warranty, or the company does a great job at fixing/repairing stuff, but they may not even be around 10 years from now, or the parts/availability to repair may not be there.

3 of my favorite suppressors can no longer be repaired by the companies that made them. 2 of those suppressors are technology from only 5-7 years ago. 1 is from about 20 years ago.

You might shoot low round counts, but the suppressor will probably be something you plan on keeping well past a gun or a barrel.

I recommend buying a dedicated suppressor for whatever you shoot most, and then passing on trying to get a one-size-fits all. Unless you shoot .308 really regularly, or 300 BLK regularly, then I would just buy a couple .22 suppressors, a good 9mm can and good 5.56 can (unless you shoot a different rifle caliber more often).

Josh is smart. Listen to him.

[BWT]

I'm not that big of a fan of dual usage of suppressors (aside from things like using .300 win mag/.308/.300 BLK) My reasoning is that I shoot a lot (like most of us here do) and have already fouled up suppressors that are dedicated suppressors. Cleaning never entirely removes everything. So, think of it like this:

Your .30 cal suppressor gets extra duty of having a lot more rounds through it. You keep cleaning it or whatever, but eventually, the inside of the suppressor shrinks with time as the "walls" gradually build up. Then, eventually you shoot .308 through it one day and you have an over pressure issue (boyle's law if I remember correctly...feel free to correct me). That over pressure issue destroys your can.

Now, if you shoot a few hundred rounds of .308 and a few hundred of 5.56 every year, this may never be an issue for you.

However, if you take 5 classes and practice a bunch one year and shoot 10k rounds, then shoot a few hundred the next year, then 4K the next year, then a few hundred the next year, then take 3 classes the next year...well...you can see how that will start to wear down on one suppressor designed for just one caliber. But, if you have that kind of schedule, and you add in shooting other calibers during range sessions, then you are really shooting a lot more rounds through it than you realize. Also, you might have a very good warranty, or the company does a great job at fixing/repairing stuff, but they may not even be around 10 years from now, or the parts/availability to repair may not be there.

3 of my favorite suppressors can no longer be repaired by the companies that made them. 2 of those suppressors are technology from only 5-7 years ago. 1 is from about 20 years ago.

You might shoot low round counts, but the suppressor will probably be something you plan on keeping well past a gun or a barrel.

I recommend buying a dedicated suppressor for whatever you shoot most, and then passing on trying to get a one-size-fits all. Unless you shoot .308 really regularly, or 300 BLK regularly, then I would just buy a couple .22 suppressors, a good 9mm can and good 5.56 can (unless you shoot a different rifle caliber more often).

I skimmed through this thread before turning in for the night and didn't read this post initially as closely.

1.) What barrel length do you typically put your 5.56mm cans on?
2.) What barrel length do you typically put your 7.62mm cans on?
3.) How many rounds of 5.56mm have you put through said cans versus 7.62mm?

I've got some assumptions/thoughts but I just was curious about these questions first, and no I don't plan to start an internet slap fight. ;)

Thanks and God Bless,

Brandon

ETA: I will add, Josh is 100% on with businesses closing down. Unfortunately.

[Josh Runkle]

1.) What barrel length do you typically put your 5.56mm cans on?

At home: 10.5", 11.5" and just added 18" to the mix. All semi-auto only.

Formerly, at work: 7.5", 10.3", 11.5", 12.5", 14.5", some limited full auto (maybe 4-5k rounds?), and a lot of semi-auto.

Very limited experience with 16" suppressed. Usually friends' guns. Probably less than 300 rounds total.


2.) What barrel length do you typically put your 7.62mm cans on?

I have only shot 16" and 20" suppressed at work (former job) in semi-auto, and 24" bolt gun that was mine, but suppressor belonged to a coworker.

I have shot 20" and 24" bolt guns that were suppressed that belonged to other friends.

I have shot a small amount (about 3k rounds) of full auto 7.62x39 suppressed.

I have since sold anything .308, and almost exclusively shoot 5.56 these days.


3.) How many rounds of 5.56mm have you put through said cans versus 7.62mm?

I have probably shot about 7-10k rounds through about 20 different types of 5.56 suppressors that I don't own, and about 10k rounds through 1 5.56 suppressor that I own and only about 500 rounds through another 5.56 suppressor that I do own. I have probably put about 2k 5.56 rounds through about 3-4 different 7.62 cans that I don't own.

I have put about 3k 7.62x39 rounds through a .30 cal can/gun that I don't own (almost all on full auto). I have probably shot about 5-6k .308 suppressed in total, which I have rarely found to be fun with the singular exception of some of the bolt guns with other people's subsonic hand loads, which were more effective than I would have ever imagined.

In total, I have shot a fairly limited amount of time suppressed, with the exception of 9mm and .22lr/.22 short. In 2012, I shot about 200 rounds of .22lr almost every on my lunch break, 4 days a week, shot into a bullet trap the other 3 days of the week after paramedic school/clinicals/ride alongs. I shot over 50k of .22lr suppressed that year alone.

I don't live a life like that anymore. I shot just about every major suppressor on the market in 2012-2013, but that is not true today. I own about 10-ish suppressors.

ETA: I shot almost every day from 2010 until 2014 when I got engaged, and went down to about once a week. I went down to about once every other week in 2015 when I got married (switched career paths in 2013-2014 and couldn't afford as much ammo, and I wasn't getting free ammo or subsidized ammo any longer). Since last December, I haven't shot at all. I got diagnosed with a rare, terminal heart condition. But, I'm making the most of life and getting stronger every day, adjusting to the new meds and new lifestyle and effects of multiple surgeries. I got cleared to shoot again a few weeks ago, but haven't had the strength/energy yet, but started dry firing again. So, for full disclosure, I'm not exactly a "shooter" at all, at the moment, but I will be again soon assuming my body improves.

[rob_s]

Couple of things that just occurred to me re-reading this...

1) no mention in the OP of what you want the cans for. That might help people make suggestions. If it's just because you think they might be harder to get in the future then just buy whatever looks cool or makes you feel good.
2) it's my opinion that silencers are one of the biggest wastes of money in the gun world when it come to buying with a purpose. Most "reasons" the typical private buyer gives are utter horseshit, designed (like most gun related purchases) to validate an emotional buy with BS. This is a big part of my reason for getting a .30 can: spread the cost of the horseshit across as many guns and potential uses as possible.
3) others have raised a good point about manufacturers going out of business. It's the primary reservation I still have about Thunderbeast, and the Rugged company you made me aware of, and frankly most of the manufacturers outside of Gemtech, AAC, Surefire, and Silencerco. Even then, if Dater dies I bet Gemtech goes TU, and Cerberus could shut down AAC on a whim.

[Unobtanium]

I like the length, subsequent weight and overall look of mini cans, but they give up quite a bit in actual suppression. They sound identical to full-size cans to the shooter, except in tone. Then again, my main suppressor focus is hunting. I don't need to be quiet on a range or at a class, where maybe 10% of everyone else is shooting suppressed. Same use, here, and as such, "the shooter" is my main concern. They are a few dB quieter at the ears than a fullsize can.

I bought the Omega last July, and finally picked it up last month. For my purposes, it's perfect, and I would buy it again today if making the same choice. I don't care for the brake on the end, so I purchased both the 5.56 and the 7.62 flat endcaps. It's much quieter than my buddies SDN-6 (both shooting 5.56), but that's the only can I've shot it next to for comparison. It faired pretty well HERE (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19640-Ever-want-to-compare-an-Specwar-Omega-Sandman-Surge-YHM-OSS-all-at-once) too. Everyone hears things a little differently, and tone can be subjective.

Lot's of good choices out there right now, just depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

I also bought a Sparrow at the same time. I shoot a buttload of 22, so durability and ease of maintenance were my main goals. If I were looking for a second rimfire can today, I'd probably go with the Mask. It's disgustingly quiet. I LOVE my Spectre II!

All that said, there are times already that I wish I had a dedicated 5.56 can just for general blasting, and a mini would be perfect. Ironically, I was on SiCo's website today looking at the Specwar 556K and thought, "hmmm, I wish it were a bit shorter". :p

I'm a huge fan of the Surefire mini's, personally.

[Unobtanium]

Couple of things that just occurred to me re-reading this...

1) no mention in the OP of what you want the cans for. That might help people make suggestions. If it's just because you think they might be harder to get in the future then just buy whatever looks cool or makes you feel good.
2) it's my opinion that silencers are one of the biggest wastes of money in the gun world when it come to buying with a purpose. Most "reasons" the typical private buyer gives are utter horseshit, designed (like most gun related purchases) to validate an emotional buy with BS. This is a big part of my reason for getting a .30 can: spread the cost of the horseshit across as many guns and potential uses as possible.
3) others have raised a good point about manufacturers going out of business. It's the primary reservation I still have about Thunderbeast, and the Rugged company you made me aware of, and frankly most of the manufacturers outside of Gemtech, AAC, Surefire, and Silencerco. Even then, if Dater dies I bet Gemtech goes TU, and Cerberus could shut down AAC on a whim.


Buy 2. That's what I did for my high volume setups. One stays in the safe/new, one gets flogged.

[punkey71]

The technical answers are above for 5.56 vs 30 cal on a 5.56.

All I can add to the discussion is this -

I fully understand suppressors are luxury-like items. Despite that I still have multiple centerfire and multiple rimfire - 3 of each, actually, but a couple are still waiting for approval.

I belong to a private outdoor club that is typically empty besides me and my guests. I have access to a large amount of private land (in laws that we visit 5 times a year - minimum) with a range on it as well. If your exclusively shooting at a public indoor range the benefits of suppressors arent there. But who knows what the future holds - for suppressors or your range access?

I also have 2 small kids that are learning to shoot.

I shoot a lot, like most here. However I'm supplying guns/suppressors for multiple family members. I just don't want to swap scorching hot cans from host to host and make everyone wait their turn to use them.

Could I lose a centerfire, or two? Sure, I guess. QD and not the end of the world.

Rimfire? Nope. I'm glad I have three. Hearing safe and plenty to use at the same time. I have 4 hosts. ..might need a 4th can!

Rifle isnt hearing safe, but it is hearing safe-R.

Buy what you want. Enjoy it. You've earned your money and you get to decide how to make spend it.

I'd hate to think I'd ever need to justify all the items I've ever purchased.

Being told you NEED to be able to justify suppressors (or anything else for that matter) is total bullshit.

You don't need to justify it to us or anyone else.

If your comfortable with a 30 cal can doing multiple duty - awesome.

But get a second (or third) rimfire. Best advice I took form LL.

You're NOVA. I can get you down to F'Burg with LL and Hansohn Bros if you want to play with some and decide, for yourself, if the juice is worth the squeeze.

I think it is.

[LittleLebowski]

ETA: I will add, Josh is 100% on with businesses closing down. Unfortunately.

Yup, Surefire's financial woes are well known.

[rob_s]

Buy what you want. Enjoy it. You've earned your money and you get to decide how to make spend it.

I'd hate to think I'd ever need to justify all the items I've ever purchased.

Being told you NEED to be able to justify suppressors (or anything else for that matter) is total bullshit.

You don't need to justify it to us or anyone else.


Since this is likely a reaction to my post...

I have no issue with people buying cans because they simply want to. As you point out, it's your money, you burn it how you want to. In fact, I'm a HUGE proponent of guns=fun.

But...

What I take issue with is the "I need this to do that" mentality that's so pervasive in the gun hobbyist (and, sadly, gun professional) world. People are looking to add meaning, value, purpose, etc. where there simply is none.

Buy what you want, have fun with it, but don't confuse that with some sort of tactical ninja (or any other, for that matter) need. And be honest, both with yourself and those from whom you request advice, as to your actual motivations for your purchases.

[LittleLebowski]

I had no idea that rob_s takes exception with the "tactical ninjas" in gun forums since he's never mentioned it before, ever :D

[joshs]

Since this is likely a reaction to my post...

I have no issue with people buying cans because they simply want to. As you point out, it's your money, you burn it how you want to. In fact, I'm a HUGE proponent of guns=fun.

But...

What I take issue with is the "I need this to do that" mentality that's so pervasive in the gun hobbyist (and, sadly, gun professional) world. People are looking to add meaning, value, purpose, etc. where there simply is none.

Buy what you want, have fun with it, but don't confuse that with some sort of tactical ninja (or any other, for that matter) need. And be honest, both with yourself and those from whom you request advice, as to your actual motivations for your purchases.

Why not use a rifle suppressor? If it weren't for the NFA, suppressor ownership would likely be extremely common, especially for hunting and shooting on outdoor ranges is populated areas. Most rifles cause hearing damage when used with only one form of hearing protection (plugs, muffs, suppressor). Many people suffer hearing damage at or even slightly under the 140 "safe" OSHA level. There are some situations where it is difficult to wear hearing protection, so it's nice to have it on the gun.

[Matt O]

Couple of things that just occurred to me re-reading this...

1) no mention in the OP of what you want the cans for. That might help people make suggestions. If it's just because you think they might be harder to get in the future then just buy whatever looks cool or makes you feel good.


Now that I'm to the point of deciding whether to get the 5.56 suppressor, however, I'm beginning to wonder if this is a purchase that makes sense and has a specific use or am I just doing this because I'm caught up in getting NFA purchases in, potentially unnecessary ones, before the 41P deadline?

I realize that part of that question is a personal one for me to decide, but in general, given that 5.56 isn't hearing safe when suppressed, is the juice worth the squeeze? Is this just a fun/novelty item? Do people usually shoot their SBR's suppressed vs unsuppressed?

See quoted section of the OP above. I don't have a specific use for it and am trying to ascertain whether the suppression of 5.56 ammo is generally seen to be worth it.

Some great points made that I hadn't thought of regarding suppressor durability - particularly in regards to multi-caliber use suppressors, as well as the hassle of switching cans between guns, especially when hot.


Being told you NEED to be able to justify suppressors (or anything else for that matter) is total bullshit.

You don't need to justify it to us or anyone else.

To me this isn't a justification process in the sense of defending a decision. It's simply an analysis of whether this decision is worthwhile given the fact that A) resources are finite and B) the presence of opportunity costs. And if something is a ton of "fun," that alone can serve as sufficient justification provided there are resources available. Hell, this entire hobby isn't one that provides much in terms of quantifiable value for most people, but by God is it fun.


You're NOVA. I can get you down to F'Burg with LL and Hansohn Bros if you want to play with some and decide, for yourself, if the juice is worth the squeeze.

I think it is.

Well if you gentleman decide to do a range/suppressor day, I would most certainly be happy to join. Once I get my ass over to Hansohn to pick up the Surge, at least I'd have my one lone suppressor to add to the mix.

[rob_s]

Why not use a rifle suppressor? If it weren't for the NFA, suppressor ownership would likely be extremely common, especially for hunting and shooting on outdoor ranges is populated areas. Most rifles cause hearing damage when used with only one form of hearing protection (plugs, muffs, suppressor). Many people suffer hearing damage at or even slightly under the 140 "safe" OSHA level. There are some situations where it is difficult to wear hearing protection, so it's nice to have it on the gun.

I hear that whole "if it weren't for the NFA..." thing a lot. But there IS an NFA. Might as well wish for Bernie Sanders to get elected and start handing out free money. It's a silly argument.

A decent rifle suppressor is going to run $700-$1500 with tax and other fees. They add weight, screw with the balance, dirty up the gun faster, push gas into the shooter's face, and/or add a layer of complication and fiddle-fuck to try and eliminate the mechanical and gas issues, and even then you're not guaranteed to have solved them. All of these things are, in fact, selling points to a lot of people looking for ways to burn cash and time. I used to be one of them too. I'm not anymore.

Again, if people think they "need" a can, by all means buy one. If people simply want a can, by all means buy one. But don't confuse the latter for the former, and don't simply assume you're going to get all the benefits (reduced noise) with none of the downsides (still not hearing safe, expensive, heavy, legal restrictions, fouling, disrupting function, etc.). If you've got it all sorted out in your head, buy 30 of them if that's what makes you happy.

I own three cans myself. The 5.56 was essentially a giant waste of money. The 9mm is amusing as it's on a 9mm AR, and the .22 is something that may prove useful now that I have a larger yard, in a more rural setting, with pests that may need dispatched. I could do without all three and never notice they were gone. In fact, at one point the .22 can had rolled into a crevice in the safe and I thought I *had* lost the stupid thing.

[LittleLebowski]

I hear that whole "if it weren't for the NFA..." thing a lot. But there IS an NFA. Might as well wish for Bernie Sanders to get elected and start handing out free money. It's a silly argument.

A decent rifle suppressor is going to run $700-$1500 with tax and other fees. They add weight, screw with the balance, dirty up the gun faster, push gas into the shooter's face, and/or add a layer of complication and fiddle-fuck to try and eliminate the mechanical and gas issues, and even then you're not guaranteed to have solved them. All of these things are, in fact, selling points to a lot of people looking for ways to burn cash and time. I used to be one of them too. I'm not anymore.

Again, if people think they "need" a can, by all means buy one. If people simply want a can, by all means buy one. But don't confuse the latter for the former, and don't simply assume you're going to get all the benefits (reduced noise) with none of the downsides (still not hearing safe, expensive, heavy, legal restrictions, fouling, disrupting function, etc.). If you've got it all sorted out in your head, buy 30 of them if that's what makes you happy.

I own three cans myself. The 5.56 was essentially a giant waste of money. The 9mm is amusing as it's on a 9mm AR, and the .22 is something that may prove useful now that I have a larger yard, in a more rural setting, with pests that may need dispatched. I could do without all three and never notice they were gone. In fact, at one point the .22 can had rolled into a crevice in the safe and I thought I *had* lost the stupid thing.

To be fair, following this line of reasoning, you could probably also lose many of your guns and never "need" them. The odds are extremely high that you'll never actually need a gun period. It's a slippery slope.

[Josh Runkle]

Why not use a rifle suppressor? If it weren't for the NFA, suppressor ownership would likely be extremely common, especially for hunting and shooting on outdoor ranges is populated areas. Most rifles cause hearing damage when used with only one form of hearing protection (plugs, muffs, suppressor). Many people suffer hearing damage at or even slightly under the 140 "safe" OSHA level. There are some situations where it is difficult to wear hearing protection, so it's nice to have it on the gun.

Personally, I buy rifle suppressors for flash suppression, concussion reduction in closed spaces and reduction in felt recoil. I don't buy them for sound reduction. Signature reduction is different than sound reduction (one is volume, one is ability to identify by sound from a distance), and I can understand why someone would like that for "tacticool" reasons, but that's not really one of my main reasons.

"Silencing", for me, has nothing to do with buying a rifle suppressor.

[Robinson]

I recently bought a rifle suppressor because I already have hearing problems and I think I will be less likely to make the problems worse with the suppressor when shooting at the range. And in the unlikely event I ever need to fire the rifle without hearing protection, even though with the suppressor it's still not 'hearing safe' it will hopefully be a little less damaging. Words like 'tactical' or 'stealthy' didn't factor into my purchasing decision in the least.

[joshs]

I hear that whole "if it weren't for the NFA..." thing a lot. But there IS an NFA. Might as well wish for Bernie Sanders to get elected and start handing out free money. It's a silly argument.

A decent rifle suppressor is going to run $700-$1500 with tax and other fees. They add weight, screw with the balance, dirty up the gun faster, push gas into the shooter's face, and/or add a layer of complication and fiddle-fuck to try and eliminate the mechanical and gas issues, and even then you're not guaranteed to have solved them. All of these things are, in fact, selling points to a lot of people looking for ways to burn cash and time. I used to be one of them too. I'm not anymore.

My point was that most people don't realize the "need" a suppressor until too late because the damage to their hearing is already done. One of the biggest hurdle to suppressor hunting legislation has been game wardens claiming they have hunted their whole lives with no earpro without hearing damage. Many people simply don't recognize the damage because it is a gradual change unless the hearing loss is accompanied by tinnitus.

I can't stand to wear ear protection while hunting, I've tried to put it on right before a shot, but even then it's muffs only with a so-so seal because I put them on while trying to hold a rifle while not making too much noise. I also dislike hunting with dogs for this reason because it destroys their hearing. Every rifle shot we are exposed to without earpro does permanent irreversible damage to our ears. I consider being able to hear later in life a "need."

I mentioned the NFA to address the need/want argument. The fact that getting suppressors is a hassle doesn't affect whether they are needed or not.

[Unobtanium]

I recently bought a rifle suppressor because I already have hearing problems and I think I will be less likely to make the problems worse with the suppressor when shooting at the range. And in the unlikely event I ever need to fire the rifle without hearing protection, even though with the suppressor it's still not 'hearing safe' it will hopefully be a little less damaging. Words like 'tactical' or 'stealthy' didn't factor into my purchasing decision in the least.

I remember a friend of mine in the industry not being such a fan of my love for suppressors, until they killed a perp without one. They then said "I wish I had had a suppressor. My hearing is fucked right now." Luckily, most acoustic injury can be successfully treated with aggressive tapered steroids PO. Loss will still result in the 6kHz range, though, which will shift down into the 3-4kHz range as you age.

[Robinson]

Luckily, most acoustic injury can be successfully treated with aggressive tapered steroids PO.

I wish that had been available or I had known about it back when most of my damage occurred!

[Unobtanium]

I wish that had been available or I had known about it back when most of my damage occurred!

Prednisone isn't new. It usually takes an audiologist to write for it for this use though. Most GP's don't treat acoustic injury very effectively. In more aggressive cases, within 24 hours of injury, nitroglycerine IV is used to improve circulation to the follicles in the inner ear. Ischemia secondary to vasoconstriction causes a good bit of the permanent damage. The ntg helps with that. Acute acoustic trauma can most certainly be effectively treated. There is just a lot of ignorance and old-school thinking surrounding it.

[BWT]

At home: 10.5", 11.5" and just added 18" to the mix. All semi-auto only.

Formerly, at work: 7.5", 10.3", 11.5", 12.5", 14.5", some limited full auto (maybe 4-5k rounds?), and a lot of semi-auto.

Very limited experience with 16" suppressed. Usually friends' guns. Probably less than 300 rounds total.

I have only shot 16" and 20" suppressed at work (former job) in semi-auto, and 24" bolt gun that was mine, but suppressor belonged to a coworker.

I have shot 20" and 24" bolt guns that were suppressed that belonged to other friends.

I have shot a small amount (about 3k rounds) of full auto 7.62x39 suppressed.

I have since sold anything .308, and almost exclusively shoot 5.56 these days.

I have probably shot about 7-10k rounds through about 20 different types of 5.56 suppressors that I don't own, and about 10k rounds through 1 5.56 suppressor that I own and only about 500 rounds through another 5.56 suppressor that I do own. I have probably put about 2k 5.56 rounds through about 3-4 different 7.62 cans that I don't own.

I have put about 3k 7.62x39 rounds through a .30 cal can/gun that I don't own (almost all on full auto). I have probably shot about 5-6k .308 suppressed in total, which I have rarely found to be fun with the singular exception of some of the bolt guns with other people's subsonic hand loads, which were more effective than I would have ever imagined.

In total, I have shot a fairly limited amount of time suppressed, with the exception of 9mm and .22lr/.22 short. In 2012, I shot about 200 rounds of .22lr almost every on my lunch break, 4 days a week, shot into a bullet trap the other 3 days of the week after paramedic school/clinicals/ride alongs. I shot over 50k of .22lr suppressed that year alone.

I don't live a life like that anymore. I shot just about every major suppressor on the market in 2012-2013, but that is not true today. I own about 10-ish suppressors.

ETA: I shot almost every day from 2010 until 2014 when I got engaged, and went down to about once a week. I went down to about once every other week in 2015 when I got married (switched career paths in 2013-2014 and couldn't afford as much ammo, and I wasn't getting free ammo or subsidized ammo any longer). Since last December, I haven't shot at all. I got diagnosed with a rare, terminal heart condition. But, I'm making the most of life and getting stronger every day, adjusting to the new meds and new lifestyle and effects of multiple surgeries. I got cleared to shoot again a few weeks ago, but haven't had the strength/energy yet, but started dry firing again. So, for full disclosure, I'm not exactly a "shooter" at all, at the moment, but I will be again soon assuming my body improves.

First off, I'm praying for your recovery; that's rough and I think you have your priorities right.

I asked about barrel length because your observance of basically (my words) "caked with carbon" and wall thickening in suppressors; I figured if guys are using suppressors they're probably using other NFA items (such as SBR's or even in your case MG's). Just referencing the picture of my wife with the 12.5'' SBR. I believe that the experience you have with predominantly SBR's (and MG's at that) in 5.56mm and longer barrels in .308 (I had a feeling you didn't shoot SBR 7.62; it's just not enjoyable) may have shaped your perspective on using non-dedicated suppressors. I think that the SBR and Short barrel MG's given how much unburnt powder (or still burning looking at the muzzle flash) may leave larger carbon, etc. deposits earlier on in the baffle stack of a suppressor than on a longer barrel (or potentially non FA).

In short, I think the full auto and short barrel may have caused the caking issue (my words) to be exacerbated (I believe either would but combined; I certainly think it may have).

I don't know that the OP would have a similar experience taking a .30 cal can across multiple platforms. But I'll also say this; your first hand experience with suppressors far far outweighs my own. Sure, I've spent a lot of time looking at them over the years and NFA items have been where my interests are primarily; I'll defer to your experience over mine.

One thing I'll add, unfortunately one other truth is... silencers are pretty much a disposable item; it's unfortunate but I truly think they are and especially so in silencers that can't be disassembled and cleaned (pretty much all heavy use rifle silencers). KAC indicates that they have rifle silencers still in service with over 50k rounds through them (Trey Knight at 13:00 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE939qTSt8o). I would look for a high quality metal (inconel or now stellite at least for the first baffles; as I understand it Ti can take the abrasion but not the heat given to the blast baffles), fully welded core, and ideally a serialized portion that is replaceable in a rifle suppressor.

There's a company Stalking Rhino Inc. (http://www.stalkingrhino.com/) may help you re-core, re-build, or improve some of your old silencers for no longer in business companies or discontinued silencers(http://www.stalkingrhino.com/jailbreaking). It seems that the NFA market has created a unique niche for that small company and I've heard good things (I'm not affiliated in any way). They don't have re-builds pictured but I've heard good things about their results.

I see a purpose for silencers but where I am in life; the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

To the OP, I think you made a solid choice with the Rugged Surge, and you can change the length of the suppressor. I'm impressed with it.

God Bless,

Brandon

[Unobtanium]

First off, I'm praying for your recovery; that's rough and I think you have your priorities right.

I asked about barrel length because your observance of basically (my words) "caked with carbon" and wall thickening in suppressors; I figured if guys are using suppressors they're probably using other NFA items (such as SBR's or even in your case MG's). Just referencing the picture of my wife with the 12.5'' SBR. I believe that the experience you have with predominantly SBR's (and MG's at that) in 5.56mm and longer barrels in .308 (I had a feeling you didn't shoot SBR 7.62; it's just not enjoyable) may have shaped your perspective on using non-dedicated suppressors. I think that the SBR and Short barrel MG's given how much unburnt powder (or still burning looking at the muzzle flash) may leave larger carbon, etc. deposits earlier on in the baffle stack of a suppressor than on a longer barrel (or potentially non FA).

In short, I think the full auto and short barrel may have caused the caking issue (my words) to be exacerbated (I believe either would but combined; I certainly think it may have).

I don't know that the OP would have a similar experience taking a .30 cal can across multiple platforms. But I'll also say this; your first hand experience with suppressors far far outweighs my own. Sure, I've spent a lot of time looking at them over the years and NFA items have been where my interests are primarily; I'll defer to your experience over mine.

One thing I'll add, unfortunately one other truth is... silencers are pretty much a disposable item; it's unfortunate but I truly think they are and especially so in silencers that can't be disassembled and cleaned (pretty much all heavy use rifle silencers). KAC indicates that they have rifle silencers still in service with over 50k rounds through them (Trey Knight at 13:00 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE939qTSt8o). I would look for a high quality metal (inconel or now stellite at least for the first baffles; as I understand it Ti can take the abrasion but not the heat given to the blast baffles), fully welded core, and ideally a serialized portion that is replaceable in a rifle suppressor.

There's a company Stalking Rhino Inc. (http://www.stalkingrhino.com/) may help you re-core, re-build, or improve some of your old silencers for no longer in business companies or discontinued silencers(http://www.stalkingrhino.com/jailbreaking). It seems that the NFA market has created a unique niche for that small company and I've heard good things (I'm not affiliated in any way). They don't have re-builds pictured but I've heard good things about their results.

I see a purpose for silencers but where I am in life; the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

To the OP, I think you made a solid choice with the Rugged Surge, and you can change the length of the suppressor. I'm impressed with it.

God Bless,

Brandon

Surefire will re-core the suppressor for around $650 last I checked. I had one of mine re-cored, and you literally cannot tell. I could tell you it's brand new and never been used, and you couldn't prove me wrong unless you knew.

[cricket]

Prednisone isn't new. It usually takes an audiologist to write for it for this use though. Most GP's don't treat acoustic injury very effectively. In more aggressive cases, within 24 hours of injury, nitroglycerine IV is used to improve circulation to the follicles in the inner ear. Ischemia secondary to vasoconstriction causes a good bit of the permanent damage. The ntg helps with that. Acute acoustic trauma can most certainly be effectively treated. There is just a lot of ignorance and old-school thinking surrounding it.

This is great information, as was the discussion contributed in another thread re: hearing damage mitigation.

I don't want to derail this thread (let me know if I should start a separate one). However, further to the above, I do have some naive questions: where can we find state of the art information on hearing protection for shooting? What is the best practice for layering in-ear/over-ear + "dumb" vs. electronic protection? How how can we identify hearing professionals who can provide advice applicable to shooters?

I have visited a handful of ENTs/audiologists over the years. All were nice people, and happy to sell me fitted plugs, but didn't seem to have a lot of useful or in depth advice of the type Unobtanium is relaying in this thread.

[Robinson]

Prednisone isn't new. It usually takes an audiologist to write for it for this use though. Most GP's don't treat acoustic injury very effectively. In more aggressive cases, within 24 hours of injury, nitroglycerine IV is used to improve circulation to the follicles in the inner ear. Ischemia secondary to vasoconstriction causes a good bit of the permanent damage. The ntg helps with that. Acute acoustic trauma can most certainly be effectively treated. There is just a lot of ignorance and old-school thinking surrounding it.

Just saw this -- thanks for posting the info. I guess it's worth a discussion with an audiologist to find out if they offer emergency services like the above. I imagine getting the treatment ASAP is key to success.

Related topic and further derail: I've seen NAC often suggested as a means to prevent further hearing damage. Do you have any knowledge of it or its effectiveness?

[Robinson]

This is great information, as was the discussion contributed in another thread re: hearing damage mitigation.

I don't want to derail this thread (let me know if I should start a separate one). However, further to the above, I do have some naive questions: where can we find state of the art information on hearing protection for shooting? What is the best practice for layering in-ear/over-ear + "dumb" vs. electronic protection? How how can we identify hearing professionals who can provide advice applicable to shooters?

I have visited a handful of ENTs/audiologists over the years. All were nice people, and happy to sell me fitted plugs, but didn't seem to have a lot of useful or in depth advice of the type Unobtanium is relaying in this thread.

This is a case where prevention and treatment are totally different things. I already have hearing damage so I have to be really careful, especially when shooting. I use both plugs and muffs when shooting indoors and the gun shots don't generally bother my ears (sometimes an AR in the next lane is still a problem). I do notice my tinnitus is spiked after shooting, but I think it is a result of having the plugs stuffed in my ears rather than the noise of the gunshots. I hope to have my suppressor out of NFA jail soon as well.