HK USPc 40 to 9mm conversion- what's req'd?

[GyroF-16]

I'm interested in learning what's involved to convert a USPc 40 to 9mm.
I have lots of experience with Beretta 92/96, where a barrel swap is the minimum, and a complete top-end swap is ideal.
If I drop a 40 compact barrel
https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/USPC-9mm-Barrel-US-p16704.htm
and a recoil spring assembly
https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-USP-Compact-9mm-Recoil-Spring-With-Buffer-Assembly-Complete-p1158.htm

into an existing -USPc 40 slide, will this work fine?

My only other question mark is the extractor, and it looks like the USP uses the same part for 9 and 40, am I right?

My desired end-state is to, at a minimum, have a reliable "sub caliber" range practice gun for my duty USPc 40.
At best, it would be a completely reliable off-duty carry gun with a little more capacity, and less recoil.
I would be using dedicated 9mm magazines, do course.

If this would work like I imagine, I'd have a fully functional USPc in 9mm for about half the price (including at least 3 mags) of an additional complete firearm.

Any experience, expertise, and advice is welcome.

Gyro

[LSP972]

I suspect a 9mm "upper" would work; maybe. But I'm not going to risk either my 9mm or .40 USPc pistols by trying it out.

I CAN tell you that using the .40 magazines to hold 9mm ammunition works like a champ.

But dropping a 9mm barrel and recoil spring into a .40 slide… dunno, man, why risk a superlative pistol? If you're into that sort of corner-cutting, get a Glock; I understand they do rather well with this sort of thing.

Me; I simply purchased another pistol. YMMV…

.

[HCM]

I'm interested in learning what's involved to convert a USPc 40 to 9mm.
I have lots of experience with Beretta 92/96, where a barrel swap is the minimum, and a complete top-end swap is ideal.
If I drop a 40 compact barrel
https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/USPC-9mm-Barrel-US-p16704.htm
and a recoil spring assembly
https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-USP-Compact-9mm-Recoil-Spring-With-Buffer-Assembly-Complete-p1158.htm

into an existing -USPc 40 slide, will this work fine?

My only other question mark is the extractor, and it looks like the USP uses the same part for 9 and 40, am I right?

My desired end-state is to, at a minimum, have a reliable "sub caliber" range practice gun for my duty USPc 40.
At best, it would be a completely reliable off-duty carry gun with a little more capacity, and less recoil.
I would be using dedicated 9mm magazines, do course.

If this would work like I imagine, I'd have a fully functional USPc in 9mm for about half the price (including at least 3 mags) of an additional complete firearm.

Any experience, expertise, and advice is welcome.

Gyro

On some guns 9mm barrels just drop into 40 slides, the Beretta 92/96 for example. On others like Glock and SIG a 40 to 9 conversion barrel because the breech block dimensions of the 40 barrels and corresponding cuts in the .40 slides are larger than the corresponding dimensions on 9mm factory guns.

I suspect HK's fall into the latter category. I've seen two 40 cal P30L's advertised for sale with 9mm conversion barrels but I do not know who made them.

[GyroF-16]

Thanks LPS...
I'm looking around, but a USPc 9mm w/ LEM and night sights (to match my duty and off-duty, personal gun) isn't easy to come by.

I'm thinking that if the 9mm barrel has the same outside diameter as the 40, with the right recoil spring, the 40 slide wouldn't know the difference.

And thanks HCM...
I've seen 40 to 357 SIG conversion barrels, but no other "conversion" barrels. I hadn't thought of the breach block dimensions.

But I'm interested to hear from an armorer or someone with experience in this area to see if there's a breach dimension issue or something else that I'm not thinking of...

Gyro

[HCM]

Thanks LPS...
I'm looking around, but a USPc 9mm w/ LEM (to match my duty and off-duty, personal gun) isn't easy to come by.

I'm thinking that if the 9mm barrel has the same outside diameter as the 40, with the right recoil spring, the 40 slide wouldn't know the difference.

But I'm interested to hear from an armored or someone with experience in this area to see if there's something that I'm not thinking of...

Gyro

The USP, USPC and HK45 series can all be readily converted between DA/SA and LEM.

Converting a DA/SA 9mm USPC to LEM will be much cheaper and easier than converting a 40 to 9mm. HK parts has the kit with the conversion parts for $149 - it would likely be about $100 direct from HK USA.

http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-LEM-Kit-Complete-For-USP-USP-Compact-Pistols-198p316.htm

Stripped 9mm Slide is about $400 - that is without sights, barrel and internals etc.

http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-USP-9mm-Compact-Slide-Incomplete-198p17254.htm

For $600 you could get a used USPC 9mm or a new P2000.

[GyroF-16]

I guess I'm looking in the wrong places... I'm only finding USPc on Gunbroker, Bud's etc, mostly new, and $900-$1k.
If I found a $600 used V1, put $100 into night sights, and $100-150 into the LEM conversion, plus shipping and transfer fees, I'm almost at the $1k for a new LE USP LEM with night sights and 3 standard-cap mags.
If there's a better way, I'm open to it. I was just hoping to create a "2-in-one" for $500-ish.

[HCM]

I guess I'm looking in the wrong places... I'm only finding USPc on Gunbroker, Bud's etc, mostly new, and $900-$1k.
If I found a $600 used V1, put $100 into night sights, and $100-150 into the LEM conversion, plus shipping and transfer fees, I'm almost at the $1k for a new LE USP LEM with night sights and 3 standard-cap mags.
If there's a better way, I'm open to it. I was just hoping to create a "2-in-one" for $500-ish.

Are you LE / Mil ? Call HK they have an LE/MIL purchase program. Not Glock Blue Label prices but less than $900 - 1K.

Here is a used one local to me for $649. They will ship to you FFl just like Buds.

http://www.adelbridge.com/product/hk-usp-9mm-compact/

Here is another on HKPRO for $ 680. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-pistols-sale/234594-wts-excellent-hk-usp-compact-9mm-variant-1-ns.html

[LtDave]

I guess I'm looking in the wrong places... I'm only finding USPc on Gunbroker, Bud's etc, mostly new, and $900-$1k.
If I found a $600 used V1, put $100 into night sights, and $100-150 into the LEM conversion, plus shipping and transfer fees, I'm almost at the $1k for a new LE USP LEM with night sights and 3 standard-cap mags.
If there's a better way, I'm open to it. I was just hoping to create a "2-in-one" for $500-ish.

I just picked up a USPc 9mm LEM for $595 on Gunbroker. No night sights and 10 rd mags but it shoots good. Appears to have had very few rounds thru it.

[GyroF-16]

HCM- yes, Federal LE and retired mil. I contacted HK today and learned that they evidently no longer offer LE pricing for individual purchases. Thanks for the idea, though.

Lt Dave- wow, sounds like I might need to keep checking Gunbroker. If I could get an LEM gun and just add night sights, I'd get to my desired outcome for well less than the $1k mark.

[LSP972]

HCM- yes, Federal LE and retired mil. I contacted HK today and learned that they evidently no longer offer LE pricing for individual purchases. .

I think they stopped that when they put the brakes on selling the FFDO pistol (USPc .40 with three mags and trits) to qualified commercial pilots.

Mike at Cross Creek Guns will be one of your better sources for a NIB pistol. Last I checked, he can get the LE version of the V1 (DA/SA), which has three mags and night sights, for well under a grand. Getting a NIB LEM pistol is a matter of stumbling across one, at the right place at the right time. Most all LEM-equipped USP/USP Compact/HK45/HK45 Compact pistols that are sold new in the US first arrived as VI (DA/SA) pistols, and have been converted by HK/USA. And they don't do it unless they are filling an order. And if it is an individual order… well, they kind of mimic the post office motto ("We will move no mail before its time") into- "We will build no LEM before its time".

You can find used LEM pistols for sale, most often on HKPro… but they last maybe a day; so you gotta be quick.

I have always bought HKs NIB as V1s, bought a LEM kit, and put it in myself (except for the P-series guns; those come from Oberndorf either as LEMs or DA/SA; they are frame specific). Installing a LEM into a USP/HK45 frame is not rocket science, but it isn't a Glock simpleton either.

.

[HCM]

I think they stopped that when they put the brakes on selling the FFDO pistol (USPc .40 with three mags and trits) to qualified commercial pilots.

Mike at Cross Creek Guns will be one of your better sources for a NIB pistol. Last I checked, he can get the LE version of the V1 (DA/SA), which has three mags and night sights, for well under a grand. Getting a NIB LEM pistol is a matter of stumbling across one, at the right place at the right time. Most all LEM-equipped USP/USP Compact/HK45/HK45 Compact pistols that are sold new in the US first arrived as VI (DA/SA) pistols, and have been converted by HK/USA. And they don't do it unless they are filling an order. And if it is an individual order… well, they kind of mimic the post office motto ("We will move no mail before its time") into- "We will build no LEM before its time".

You can find used LEM pistols for sale, most often on HKPro… but they last maybe a day; so you gotta be quick.

I have always bought HKs NIB as V1s, bought a LEM kit, and put it in myself (except for the P-series guns; those come from Oberndorf either as LEMs or DA/SA; they are frame specific). Installing a LEM into a USP/HK45 frame is not rocket science, but it isn't a Glock simpleton either.

.

The USPC 40 LEM was the INS /USBP gun well before the FFDO program was ever thought of (1997-98). USBP/ CBP switched to the P2000 around 2004 but there are plenty of 15 year old USPC's still going strong. ICE pulled the last issued HK's in 2009.

I agree 100% the OP is much more likely to find a reasonably priced DA/SA model - converting to LEM is the way to go whether he does it himself, has a local gunsmith do it or has HK do it.

OP - if you are retired mil you areiky old enough to need reading glasses. While the factory Nepro light sites are fairly visible, you really are with yourself to take a look at the Trijicon HD sights.

[GyroF-16]

Thanks for the info, LSP.
Yes, I had to special-order my personally-owned LE V7 (duplicate of duty gun). Once tax and background check was done, it was almost a grand. And now I have the itch for a 9mm clone. Cheaper ammo, less recoil, etc. Tonight I saw one online for $924 shipped.

Maybe I'll watch HKPro for awhile and see if I get lucky finding a used one for a good price. Eventually I'll probably break down and just get a NIB LE gun.

Again, I appreciate your experience.

Gyro

[MD7305]

Don't know if this helps you any or is too late but EFK makes a conversion barrel for .40 to 9mm USP Compacts. No personal experience but something I ran across.
https://www.efkfiredragon.com/hkusp-compact-9mm-conv-interchangeable-with-40-sandw.html

[LSP972]

OP - if you are retired mil you areiky old enough to need reading glasses. While the factory Nepro light sites are fairly visible, you really are with (owe it to) yourself to take a look at the Trijicon HD sights.

Oh, yes indeed. They make a TREMENDOUS difference.

.

[LSP972]

The USPC 40 LEM was the INS /USBP gun well before the FFDO program was ever thought of (1997-98).

Which is all the more reason to wonder why it was selected as the FFDO pistol... seeing as the FAMS director at that time was a staunch former USSS dude who saddled the air marshals with the P229. Whatever; I'm glad they did choose the USPc, as I was acquainted with it via an airline pilot pal who went through one of the first FFDO classes. Lacking his enthusiasm and insisting that I work with him and his new gat, I would still be a Glock bottom-feeder, considering the HK superiority with disdain... because, you know, HKs are over-priced, I suck, and they hate me...;)

.

[GyroF-16]

Don't know if this helps you any or is too late but EFK makes a conversion barrel for .40 to 9mm USP Compacts. No personal experience but something I ran across.
https://www.efkfiredragon.com/hkusp-compact-9mm-conv-interchangeable-with-40-sandw.html

Thanks, MD7305 - that's JUST the kind of thing I was looking for!
I'm thinking I'd also need to use a recoil spring for a 9mm - any idea on the difference in weights?

HCM- lucky for me, no reading glasses required yet, but I'll keep the HDs in mind down the road. Right now I'm trying to keep things uniform, and can't make any mods to the duty weapon.

[HCM]

Which is all the more reason to wonder why it was selected as the FFDO pistol... seeing as the FAMS director at that time was a staunch former USSS dude who saddled the air marshals with the P229. Whatever; I'm glad they did choose the USPc, as I was acquainted with it via an airline pilot pal who went through one of the first FFDO classes. Lacking his enthusiasm and insisting that I work with him and his new gat, I would still be a Glock bottom-feeder, considering the HK superiority with disdain... because, you know, HKs are over-priced, I suck, and they hate me...;)

.

It wasn't just the director, the majority of the managers brought in when the FAMS were expanded came from the USSS. The P229 .357 was what the USSS used so it must be the best, right?

Re why the HK's for the FFDO's my bet is two fold: 1) the FFDO's would not get to train anywhere near as often as the FAMS so a single trigger pull design makes sense. 2) At the time the FFDO program was stood up, someone in the Govt(INS) had a bunch of HK USPC LEM 40s and the FFDO program was able to get them free.

[LSP972]

2) At the time the FFDO program was stood up, someone in the Govt(INS) had a bunch of HK USPC LEM 40s and the FFDO program was able to get them free.

Hmmm… dunno if I buy that.

Because I ended up, from CDNN, with a USPc .45 that was born with a LEM. No white paint to denote safety lever position, on either side. That, of course, is a dead giveaway that the pistol came from Oberndorf with the LEM. The CDNN dude said they had gotten these pistols, along with identical examples in .357 Sig and Euro Pellet (and lord, how I wish I had scored one of the former!), when the government dumped all of their other-caliber test guns from the FFDO program after selecting the .40. That sounded a bit melodramatic, so I made a few calls to some folks who might know… and two of them confirmed that story.

All ancient history now, and rather irrelevant… but curious, for sure.

.

[GyroF-16]

My theory on the USPc40 LEM being selected as the FFDO weapon goes like this-
1. In the early 2000's, .40 was the accepted standard caliber for LE
2. Given the close quarters in the cockpit, an LEM system that never requires decocking makes a lot of sense, for the same reasons Nyeti likes the LEM
3. FFDO training is done at FLETC, the same place where USBP is trained. Already a cadre of instructors familiar with the weapon, as well as a syllabus, and an already-existing logistical supply system for the guns and ammo.

While I think that a 9mm would have been a better choice to facilitate easier one-handed use, I can absolutely understand why they went with the .40 when the program was initiated in the early 2000's.

[GyroF-16]

Thanks, MD7305 - that's JUST the kind of thing I was looking for!


Well, after doing some research, it's hard to find many people who are happy with EFK barrels, especially the conversion ones. It seems that the slides have different dimensions between 9 and 40, making a drop-in conversion fairly impractical.
I appreciate the input of all - my expectations were colored by lots of previous Beretta experience, where it was not nearly as complicated.
I guess I'll revert to the plan to watch HKPro, Gunbroker etc, and, if I don't find a good deal, eventually order one NIB from HK.

Thanks again to all...

[LSP972]

It seems that the slides have different dimensions between 9 and 40, making a drop-in conversion fairly impractical.


Those differences will be internal, as the exterior dimensions are identical.

I'll try to remember to measure both when I get home, but I can tell you the breech faces are definitely different.

.

[HCM]

Well, after doing some research, it's hard to find many people who are happy with EFK barrels, especially the conversion ones. It seems that the slides have different dimensions between 9 and 40, making a drop-in conversion fairly impractical.
I appreciate the input of all - my expectations were colored by lots of previous Beretta experience, where it was not nearly as complicated.
I guess I'll revert to the plan to watch HKPro, Gunbroker etc, and, if I don't find a good deal, eventually order one NIB from HK.

Thanks again to all...

Did you find negative reviews of the EFK conversion barrels ? Or just very little info at all?

I've used Barsto and Lone Wolf 40 to 9mm conversion barrels in my SIG 229 and Glock 23 with good results but I have no experience with EFK products. The folks on SIG forum seem happy with their SIG barrels.

[GyroF-16]

Did you find negative reviews of the EFK conversion barrels ? Or just very little info at all?

I've used Barsto and Lone Wolf 40 to 9mm conversion barrels in my SIG 229 and Glock 23 with good results but I have no experience with EFK products. The folks on SIG forum seem happy with their SIG barrels.

Very little info since 2012. Lots of unhappy users prior to that. Mostly complaining of marginal reliability and poor/slow/nonexistent customer service. Some SIG users doing equivilant (9mm-9mm, 40-40, etc) barrel swaps reported no problems. But not many caliber conversion users were impressed.
Just enough to make me wary. And more inclined to either find a complete top-end or entire pistol to get to my 9mm LEM goal.

[GyroF-16]

Those differences will be internal, as the exterior dimensions are identical.

I'll try to remember to measure both when I get home, but I can tell you the breech faces are definitely different.

.

Yes, certainly just internal dimensions. Apparently external barrel diameter, breach face, and maybe other dimensions around the ejection port area. I can still conceive that a valid and functional conversion barrel could be made to function in a 40 slide, but I'm not confident that EFK is that solution.
I'm just accepting that HK has a different design philosophy than Beretta. And that's okay... I prefer BMWs to Italian cars from a reliability standpoint, too. Not that I have any complaint about Berettas, but I think you get my drift.

[LSP972]

Not that I have any complaint about Berettas, but I think you get my drift.


Oh, I most certainly do.

Sorry, didn't get a chance last night, and I won't be back home until sometime Friday. But if you are still interested, I will take those measurements. An important measurement is the width of the barrel lug; if the .40 is different from the 9mm, then no way do you want to "change uppers".

And truth be told, IMO you're likely to find a decent deal on a LEM USPc 9mm before you'll find a "complete upper" of same.

.

[Guinnessman]

Good luck in your search! I would watch HKpro closely and you will find a deal. Most of the guys over there are collectors, so you will end up with a total safe queen.

Since you are looking for a USPc, I would jump on a V1 (any variant) if the price is right and do a conversion. You may want to poke around some of the other forums like Sigforum or M4Carbine.net.

[LSP972]

Well… anybody got some salt handy? To go with this crow?

I measured the barrels on both a USPc 9mm and USPc .40; from all angles. Except for the size of the hole through the middle, they are IDENTICAL. I suspect the Euro Pellet upper would work just fine on the .40 frame… but like I said earlier, I don't want to know bad enough to try it on MY pistols.

There ya go, Gyro… ball in your court.;)

.