Importance of Practice

[iakdrago]

Not as applicable to most people on this forum--but still a wake up call:

http://www.youtube.com/user/mixflip#p/u/37/ZryfuNgdSHY

[ToddG]

I got as far as 2:30.

First -- No one here is going to disagree that the typical CCW'er lacks the training to deal with an active shooter in a crowded classroom. I'd like to see them put half a dozen randomly selected police officers through the same scenario.

Second -- I stopped when Diane criticized the guy for being unable to get his gun out. It appears the gun, holster, and cover garment were all assigned to him. It was a big gun in a big holster that got caught up in the sweatshirt that was tight enough that no sane person would have considered the pistol "concealed" in the first place.

Third -- Whether our brave newbie was perfect or not, the people in that room were a lot better off than if no one had a gun except the active shooter.

[TCinVA]

That "demonstration" was propaganda. SWAT trained "active shooter" who knew ahead of time exactly which person was carrying isn't reflective of reality.

And it's not as if there haven't been any active shooter situations at schools because there have...and you know what? The ones where an ordinary citizen had access to a firearm had a significantly lower body count than the ones where none of the intended victims were able to defend themselves...even in locations that had their own on-site police department.

[mscott327]

I remember watching that when it first came out. I'm not sure of other states but Florida prohibits CCW in schools, so I'm already at a disadvantage. That was all a ploy! They selected a handful of students who never carry to participate and carry a gun they have never carried or trained with before. What outcome did you expect? The shooter was one of the trainers, so he knew which student had a gun. In a real life scenario, the shooter probably wouldn't be as aware as the instructor was. I wonder what would have happened if they got some random individual off the street to play the shooter. Would the outcome be different? I think so!

just my .02

[ford.304]

Ever since I saw this...

How hard would it be to have someone rig up a more fair version of this study?

Maybe someone running a concealed carry course - you've got a bunch of students in a classroom setting, and it would definitely be relevant to the class itself. Get two average students from a previous class to come in and play the gunman and the armed student, with airsoft replicas of their normal carry rig. Run it every class so you get a good range of results. Make sure the guys doing the test don't know each other. Maybe vary the skills of the gunman and the defender a few times, to see how big of an effect that has.

It seems like it's something that should be within possibility for any standard CC class. And if you made a good video I'm sure it would go viral on the pro-gun sites, at least.

The only downside I can think of is that you'd *have* to warn the class somewhat ahead of time, just to make sure the attacker didn't get his arm snapped by the ex-marine in the back of the class.

[Tamara]

The only downside I can think of is that you'd *have* to warn the class somewhat ahead of time, just to make sure the attacker didn't get his arm snapped by the ex-marine in the back of the class.

As I once explained to somebody "My people don't do surprise parties." :p

[iakdrago]

I think the point that i was trying to show was misunderstood. I'm not advocating that college students should not be allowed to carry in school--on the contrary i'm a big proponent of the opposite--common PA/DE... The point that i hoped everyone would see was this:

one of the students ( i believe he was the last subject) claimed to be a proficient range shooter--how ever he made some critical mistakes: 1) he did not seek cover 2) he missed a secondary threat

I was hoping that the video would show the necessity of taking pistol classes that go beyond standing in a lane shooting at a target 7 yards away, and practicing weapon manipulations.

[iakdrago]

That "demonstration" was propaganda. SWAT trained "active shooter" who knew ahead of time exactly which person was carrying isn't reflective of reality.

And it's not as if there haven't been any active shooter situations at schools because there have...and you know what? The ones where an ordinary citizen had access to a firearm had a significantly lower body count than the ones where none of the intended victims were able to defend themselves...even in locations that had their own on-site police department.

The fact that under stress the student with the gun "froze" every time, while everyone else ran for cover--is one of the reasons why you should have realistic training. Freezing while everyone else is running singles you out as a threat/target. It is the reason why schools of fish swim together--makes it much more difficult for predators to target individuals.

[ford.304]

It also possibly points out that it may be more important to find cover *first*, draw your weapon *second.*

It's all too easy to start applying the "all you have is a hammer" mindset when you start carrying a gun.

Although, I wouldn't be surprised if in a real situation more of the students froze... All of the "students" here knew it was coming, and had a plan to run like crazy.