Is the P226 Mark 25 worth the price premium?

[LockedBreech]

So, I've always known I'd add a Sig P220 .45, Sig P229 .40, and Sig P226 9mm to my collection. I'm still childless and unmarried so while I stick with 9mm exclusively for carry and nightstand, I like having lots of other stuff to play with and I really like the Sig P-series guns.

So I've got my 220 and 229. Time to start thinking about my 226. I always figured I'd go with the Mk.25 but now that the time comes to plunk my money down I am hesitant. Is there any reason a standard $800 Nitron-finished Siglite version isn't a good way to go versus the $1000 Mk. 25?

Edit: Sorry, to clarify, I'm aware the Mk. 25 has that internal phosphate coating, I'm just asking if for a desk worker who babies his gun collection isn't the normal Nitron sufficient?

[BehindBlueI's]

Spring for the SRT trigger. Wouldn't worry about mk25. Extreme is good value, nice grips.

[David S.]

I don't think so.

Be aware that it also has a different rail and therefore doesn't share holsters with the standard models.

For similar money I do like the value of the Extreme model and just picked one up for my father. It adds the Short Reset Trigger, Hogue grips and forward cocking serrations.

For a bit more, the Legion seems nice too.

ETA. I type slow and BBI beet me to it.

[Lon]

I don't think it's worth it. But I think Sigs are overpriced anyway.

[ReverendMeat]

The MK25 also comes with a third magazine. Comparing MSRPs, the MK25 is $58 more than the standard 226 with night sights, and $73 less than the Extreme.

The main benefit of the MK25, to ME, is the short external extractor and is not something that can be upgraded on any other P226, where G10 grips or SRT can be if so desired. I think the combination of extractor and third magazine is worth the price difference.

[LockedBreech]

Be aware that it also has a different rail and therefore doesn't share holsters with the standard models.



This kinda crap is why I love this forum. Would NEVER have had an idea.

Pretty persuasive views both ways. I guess I'll have to decide for myself. Damn.

[Sero Sed Serio]

The MK25 also comes with a third magazine. Comparing MSRPs, the MK25 is $58 more than the standard 226 with night sights, and $73 less than the Extreme.

The main benefit of the MK25, to ME, is the short external extractor and is not something that can be upgraded on any other P226, where G10 grips or SRT can be if so desired. I think the combination of extractor and third magazine is worth the price difference.

I agree on the short extractor--that alone would be worth the price difference. Plus you should get a chrome-lined barrel (some have some have not), which I believe will extend your barrel life if it's a high round count gun.

[LockedBreech]

How about the Elite Stainless? I know it's heavier due to the all-steel construction, but is there any reason not to go that route otherwise?

Because that baby is pretty

[David S.]

I personally have no need for a beavertail on a SIG. It creates a possible snag point on clothing that is unnecessary. I think I read somewhere that you can't get as high in the tang of beavertail SIGs. #OMGhighboreaxis

The long extractor had teething problems early on but I'm unaware of a current epidemic of long extractor failures 9mm/.40 SIGs.

[Sero Sed Serio]

How about the Elite Stainless? I know it's heavier due to the all-steel construction, but is there any reason not to go that route otherwise?

Because that baby is pretty

As long as you like the beavertail, then no reason not to. I'm not a big fan of the factory wood grips, but you can probably sell those for the price of some G10s.

I have an all-stainless standard 226 with the long extractor, and I love (it seems like they do limited runs every so often, and Osage gets them in stock from time to time). It is a heavy beast, but a nice shooter, and one of my favorite guns to shoot.

It's kind of a mutant SIG: After I bought it I noticed that the factory barrel had a chip on the muzzle crown under the bluing (so a factory defect), so I sent the barrel in for replacement. While I was waiting I came across a new MK25 chrome-lined barrel for sale (also Osage), so I bought that and sold the factory replacement when it came in. I also put in an SRT kit, the old-style trigger, G10 grips, and Ameriglo Spartan Tactical sights with an orange ring on the front. I decided it wasn't heavy enough for me, so I hung an X300 off the front. I wouldn't want to carry it on a hike, but for it's desk drawer duty, it does just fine.

6700

[That Guy]

Be aware that it also has a different rail and therefore doesn't share holsters with the standard models.


Well, bugger. That might put a stop to my plans to buy a Sig. (The selection of handguns is pretty limited here, I've been able to find one place that has a few Mk25's for sale but that's about it Sig-wise.)

I had no idea the Mk25 required a different holster. Thanks for the heads up!

[Sero Sed Serio]

Well, bugger. That might put a stop to my plans to buy a Sig. (The selection of handguns is pretty limited here, I've been able to find one place that has a few Mk25's for sale but that's about it Sig-wise.)

I had no idea the Mk25 required a different holster. Thanks for the heads up!

Honestly if I were OCONUS and looking at a SIG the MK25 would be one of my first choices--the phosphate coat and chrome-lined barrel would require less maintenance, and the short extractor is easier for the user to service--SIG recommends replacing the roll pins any time you remove the long extractor, the extractor spring is recommended to be replaced at 2500 rounds, IIRC, and to remove one of the extractor pins you need a special roll pin punch that has a flat side. The short extractor can be removed with a flat-head screwdriver and some profanity.

The rail difference isn't that great--I'm guessing that most duty holsters will still work. It should only be an issue with molded kydex or leather, and the usual suspects for holster makers can accommodate you.

[ReverendMeat]

The long extractor had teething problems early on but I'm unaware of a current epidemic of long extractor failures 9mm/.40 SIGs.

IME the long extractor works great but is a pain in the ass to remove. The short extractor works just fine as well and has the added benefit of no roll pins or weird bullshit half-round punches to screw with.

[WOLFIE]

I am thinking of the MK-25 myself and adding the SRT system.

[JV_]

IME the long extractor works greatI think it's more prone to failure than the short one. YMMV.

http://s20.postimg.org/isc17w58t/IMG_5172.jpg

[LSP972]

... the extractor spring is recommended to be replaced at 2500 rounds.

Where did you see this? Not doubting you, just looking to verify. That's ridiculous. If true, all of a sudden my M11A-1 doesn't look so spiffy...

.

[JHC]

I am thinking of the MK-25 myself and adding the SRT system.

A few weeks ago I bought a Mk25 just to have a Sig and chose it largely for my perceived peace of mind over the short extractor system. I'm only casually acquainted with the whole short/long debate so if it's a non issue great. I have it just to shoot for fun. I really like it albeit not a lot of rounds through it yet. I like the stock trigger on it very much. It's a beautifully made pistol.

[David S.]

I think it's more prone to failure than the short one. YMMV.

http://s20.postimg.org/isc17w58t/IMG_5172.jpg

I remember reading about that failure. (http://pistol-training.com/archives/8792) Was that a one-off failure or a poorly designed part? I got the impression that ToddG wasn't a fan of the long extractor but one of the last guns that he intended to carry was a P229 with a long extractor. (http://pistol-training.com/archives/8987) I recall he was pretty impressed with it and only stopped using it because of post-surgery strength issues.

If I were gun shopping today, I'd be concerned about Gen4 Glock BTF and M&P accuracy issues. I'd also inspect any classic SIG very carefully for random QC issues. I'd even be concerned buying a P22x built in the first couple years after they switched to the long extractor. These are all widely reported, well known problems. OTOH, I haven't seen enough problems to prevent me from buying a long extractor 9mm SIG.

Maybe I'm missing all this data but I'm not seeing the long extractor fail often enough to convince me that it's actually "more prone to failure."

[David S.]

IME the long extractor works great but is a pain in the ass to remove. The short extractor works just fine as well and has the added benefit of no roll pins or weird bullshit half-round punches to screw with.

That may be true. I haven't had to dissect mine yet.

[JV_]

Was that a one-off failure or a poorly designed part? It's not a one-off: https://youtu.be/ols5jkWOIO8?t=84


I recall he was pretty impressed with it and only stopped using it because of post-surgery strength issues. I believe there's more to that story, and it wasn't just about a strength issue.

[EVP]

If you get the short extractor then you can get Grayguns machined extractor as well.

[pablo]

Plus you should get a chrome-lined barrel (some have some have not), which I believe will extend your barrel life if it's a high round count gun.

I've had to replace to P226 barrels at around 36 and 55 thousand rounds. Both times it starting stringing vertically from the nose of the slide cutting a grove in the end of the barrel, and the lock up got loose. The first half inch of rifling looked a little rounded, but I think there was plenty left. I don't think many folks will be able to shoot out a P-series barrel before it gets eaten by the slide.

When I went to the last armorers course the long extractor and spring were still 20,000 round items. I think the MK25 with the short extractor is worth it. A few years ago, Sig did everyone a favor by getting rid of the solid firing pin positioning pin, that usually took an arbor press to remove, and replaced it with a spiral dowel pin. The biggest PITA about working on Sigs went away. They then went and covered the spiral dowel pin with the long extractor, one step forward two steps backwards.

[Hauptmann]

What I like about the MK25 is the legacy slide with short machined extractor, and no front charging serrations. I'm sure that the newer long MIM extractor is working pretty well now days, but I just have more peace of mind with a machined part. As far as the chrome lined barrel goes, I'm not crazy about it. It would be worth having it if I were around salt water, and/or I were carrying brass cased ammo(prevents sticking), but I have found that it slows down the bullet a little. On a MK25 that I used to own I got about 25-30ftps slower from the chrome lined barrel than a standard P226 barrel on the same lot of ammo.

All that being said, I still like the old school W. German P226s.

[Trukinjp13]

I have a threaded barrel mk25. Threw in the srt kit. I love it, will never part. I really dig the legion pistols that are out now, but would want the sao. My only gripe is the slide stop. I hit it constantly while shooting. I run all my guns the same. If I carried it concealed I would figure out a new one. I like the smaller slide releases they have now. Will be trying to find one asap. My mk25 is nightstand gun. Has a mec gar 18 rounder/tlr-1 with xfer. It has been utterly reliable no matter ammo I have put through, is stupid accurate. I like the shorter extractor, and the standard beavertail too. They are pricey but is the best deal imo on a p226 with what comes with it.

[DpdG]

I've had to replace to P226 barrels at around 36 and 55 thousand rounds. Both times it starting stringing vertically from the nose of the slide cutting a grove in the end of the barrel, and the lock up got loose. The first half inch of rifling looked a little rounded, but I think there was plenty left. I don't think many folks will be able to shoot out a P-series barrel before it gets eaten by the slide.

As an agency running P226-.40, we had one barrel go out on us, but a different failure mode. This one started to group poorly, then soon after began to keyhole. A new barrel fixed the issue and the pistol is back in service.

Unfortunately we do not have any reliable estimate on round count, other than the pistol in question was 10 years old. As an agency average, we estimate 1k rounds per year, but there are gross outliers due to assignment (swat) or individual officer's propensity to shoot on their own time. This pistol had been turned in by an officer who left the agency and was re-issued when the problem was discovered. Long story short, we have no idea how many rounds were through it.

We have other pistols exhibiting the type of wear you describe, but not (yet) to the point that it is apparently effecting accuracy.

[Sero Sed Serio]

Where did you see this? Not doubting you, just looking to verify. That's ridiculous. If true, all of a sudden my M11A-1 doesn't look so spiffy...

.

I know that I have seen it within the last week, but I wasn't able to find the site where I saw it--it may shock you to learn that I spent a LOT of time wandering around the interwebz looking at gun stuff... But I did find the same information here: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?174715-SIG-Legion-Series/page8 p. 8, posts #74 and 78. Poster says he got the info direct from SIG CS.

But given that this is the internet, and sometimes people say things that aren't exactly true, (except for the Nigerian lottery--you can't go wrong with that!) I took things one step further: I called SIG direct. The guy I spoke to (I wasn't transferred to an armorer or anything--just the guy who answered the phone) said "There's no real round count per se, just whenever it stops working. But if you want to be preventative, I'd say around 5,000 rounds?"

Seeing how I've seen two sources that say 2,500, the CS guy didn't sound entirely sure of his answer, that I don't know of any harm in replacing spring too soon, and since class 3 malfunctions aren't fun for anybody except the guy shooting at you, I'm going to default to 2,500.

If there are any SIG armorers here who know different, please let me know.

[Sero Sed Serio]

I've had to replace to P226 barrels at around 36 and 55 thousand rounds. Both times it starting stringing vertically from the nose of the slide cutting a grove in the end of the barrel, and the lock up got loose. The first half inch of rifling looked a little rounded, but I think there was plenty left. I don't think many folks will be able to shoot out a P-series barrel before it gets eaten by the slide.

When I went to the last armorers course the long extractor and spring were still 20,000 round items. I think the MK25 with the short extractor is worth it. A few years ago, Sig did everyone a favor by getting rid of the solid firing pin positioning pin, that usually took an arbor press to remove, and replaced it with a spiral dowel pin. The biggest PITA about working on Sigs went away. They then went and covered the spiral dowel pin with the long extractor, one step forward two steps backwards.

Thanks for that info. When I was reading my quoted text I realized that it probably didn't come across as I intended. When I said "you should get a chrome-lined barrel" it sounds like I'm saying that I'm strongly recommending it. What I was trying to say is that "you are supposed to get a chrome lined barrel," one of the selling points of the MK25, but I have seen reports of guns shipping with standard 226 barrels. I'm not surprised that, in the real world, it makes very little difference.

[taadski]

The iterations of the long extractor guns I've had experience with have been 100%, for what that's worth. Most of the initial release teething problems were spring related and went away with drop in replacements. Obviously that's not the case with the linked examples above, but actual breakage incidents like those aren't widely reported from what I've seen or experienced. The initial spring related ones, on the other hand, were much more so.

I have a good bit of experience with examples of all three P series extractor types (internal, short external, long external) in high round count pistols and haven't noticed any notable reliability trends favoring one over the other. It's not something I'd personally be factoring into a new purchase decision.

Like Pablo mentioned, the extractor springs are 20,000 round items according to factory armorer's recommendations. I wouldn't put too much value in the technical knowledge base of the CS folks you get on the phone. Or from unvetted interweb sources. :p

I also haven't found the spiral pins on the long extractor slides to present much trouble. Again, as Pablo mentioned, they're worlds easier to work with than the solid pins. And a special punch set isn't required; just use a smaller punch size for removing the extractor pin. It's easy peasy. No profanity. ;)



t

[David S.]

It's not a one-off: https://youtu.be/ols5jkWOIO8?t=84

OK.

I guess my point is that that the short extractor may in fact be better a more rugged design. It's no secret that the long extractor is a cost cutting measure. As you've pointed out some long extractors were failing, particularly in the first few years. Maybe they still are and I'm missing it. I honestly have no idea how big the problem is on current production guns, but I'm not seeing them fail frequently enough that it would affect my decision to purchase a gun so equipped, let alone carry one for self defense.

YMMV.




I believe there's more to that story, and it wasn't just about a strength issue.

I'll take your word for it.

[JV_]

I honestly have no idea how big the problem is on current production gunsNeither do I. It's just that I've had better luck with the short ones, so if I have a choice, I'll go that route. I certainly wouldn't avoid Sigs because of it.

[Trukinjp13]

Neither do I. It's just that I've had better luck with the short ones, so if I have a choice, I'll go that route. I certainly wouldn't avoid Sigs because of it.

What he said. It is kind of like the mec-gar/ checkmate deal. Dudes were having issues with the checkmate mags and writing Sig off. Yes bad mags should not come with gun. But slandering them as a whole and saying they are junk is not cool. I prefer mec-gar mags to the others. But mine has run fine with checkmates. I prefer a short extractor but I would not hesitate to buy a different one.

[LSP972]

I know that I have seen it within the last week, but I wasn't able to find the site where I saw it--it may shock you to learn that I spent a LOT of time wandering around the interwebz looking at gun stuff... But I did find the same information here: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?174715-SIG-Legion-Series/page8 p. 8, posts #74 and 78. Poster says he got the info direct from SIG CS.

But given that this is the internet, and sometimes people say things that aren't exactly true, (except for the Nigerian lottery--you can't go wrong with that!) I took things one step further: I called SIG direct. The guy I spoke to (I wasn't transferred to an armorer or anything--just the guy who answered the phone) said "There's no real round count per se, just whenever it stops working. But if you want to be preventative, I'd say around 5,000 rounds?"

Seeing how I've seen two sources that say 2,500, the CS guy didn't sound entirely sure of his answer, that I don't know of any harm in replacing spring too soon, and since class 3 malfunctions aren't fun for anybody except the guy shooting at you, I'm going to default to 2,500.

If there are any SIG armorers here who know different, please let me know.

Okay, thanks. Since I won't be carrying it or depending on it for HD/whatever, I think I'll just shoot it till it fails… if it does.

.

[LockedBreech]

Good read so far, thanks all


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[LockedBreech]

Since this is a Sig thread, and I don't want to pull focus in ToddG's remembrance thread, this seems like a good spot to give a sincere thanks to forum member Yute, who hooked me up with some quality Sig gear gratis in exchange for a donation to Rampage for the Cure. Class move.


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[HCM]

Okay, thanks. Since I won't be carrying it or depending on it for HD/whatever, I think I'll just shoot it till it fails… if it does.

.

The early long extractors had issues. A couple PF members had them break in new guns within the first year after they came out ( Justintime on a P229 and Fred am aka TYR on a 226. That would have been 2012 or 2013? I spoke with Bruce Gray about this about a year ago. He states the early issues with the long extractor have been addressed and they are good to go. That's good enough for me.

As noted, the Extractor and Extractor spring are minimum 20k life / PM replacement parts. This did not change with the long extractor. The biggest downside to the long extractor is it's a PITA to service compared to the short extractor.


We issue 229r's with the short extractor at work. The only extractor issues we've seen are in guns which have large qualities of lead free / frangible ammo through them, usually due to range / facility restrictions.

[HCM]

What he said. It is kind of like the mec-gar/ checkmate deal. Dudes were having issues with the checkmate mags and writing Sig off. Yes bad mags should not come with gun. But slandering them as a whole and saying they are junk is not cool. I prefer mec-gar mags to the others. But mine has run fine with checkmates. I prefer a short extractor but I would not hesitate to buy a different one.

I call BS on this. Yes, the MEC Gar's have nicer finish. I've used both Italian / MEC Gar and checkmate SIG Mags without issue. There is a fair amount of Derp and a fair number of non shooting "gun fondlers" on sites like M4C and various brand specific sites. They hear "check mate made mags" and they immediately assume all checkmate mags are crap due to the issues with the Phosphate finished military contract M9 mags. Not realizing those mags were made with a phosphate finish at the insistence of the U.S. Military over checkmates objections and recommendations.

[JV_]

I wish my Checkmate mags were decent. I experienced follower binding with mine, in the 226:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3031-P226-Mags&p=52842&viewfull=1#post52842

I don't have a tremendous amount of experience with Sigs, but everyone clueful I talked to said it was common. Is that not your experience?

[LSP972]

As noted, the Extractor and Extractor spring are minimum 20k life / PM replacement parts. This did not change with the long extractor.


.

Kind of what I thought; thanks. This is a range toy for me, not a service piece. If it breaks, I might even get around to fixing it... ;)

.

[Chuck Whitlock]

There is a fair amount of Derp and a fair number of non shooting "gun fondlers" on sites like M4C and various brand specific sites. They hear "check mate made mags" and they immediately assume all checkmate mags are crap due to the issues with the Phosphate finished military contract M9 mags. Not realizing those mags were made with a phosphate finish at the insistence of the U.S. Military over checkmates objections and recommendations.

This is how I feel when "mil-spec" gets tossed around.

[HCM]

I wish my Checkmate mags were decent. I experienced follower binding with mine, in the 226:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3031-P226-Mags&p=52842&viewfull=1#post52842

I don't have a tremendous amount of experience with Sigs, but everyone clueful I talked to said it was common. Is that not your experience?

I have 4 of them for the P226 without issues. I had a 229 Extreme with them as well - no issues. Strangely, my NOS P226 Texas edition came with 1 MEC gar and 1 checkmate.

Our work mags were all made in Italy but they were all supplied prior to 2009.

Were you able to ID the cause of the binding ? Springs ? Flash on the follower ?

[JV_]

Were you able to ID the cause of the binding ? Springs ? Flash on the follower ?It's been a while, bit I'm pretty sure it was the rough finish on the inside of the mag body.

[That Guy]

Perhaps this is the right place to ask this...?

I know next to nothing about Sigs. I've always been led to believe that they are extremely reliable pistols that are only usable for right-handed people. After recently fondling one for the first time, I came to the conclusion that a Sig is in fact quite left-hand friendly. So now I'm catching up...

The one non-friendly control in the gun is the slide release. Do these (specifically the P226 Mk25, with either original or Mec-Gar magazines) auto-forward how reliably?
SRT, short trigger, E² grips... Are these US market only parts, or available elsewhere too? How involved procedures are installing these parts? Anything I should be aware of?
Who makes left-handed duty holsters for these? I use Blade-Tech with my existing firearms, but apparently they will only make Sig P226 mk25 duty holsters that are right-handed. I would prefer to mount a light on the gun in this application.

[JHC]

Perhaps this is the right place to ask this...?

I know next to nothing about Sigs. I've always been led to believe that they are extremely reliable pistols that are only usable for right-handed people. After recently fondling one for the first time, I came to the conclusion that a Sig is in fact quite left-hand friendly. So now I'm catching up...

The one non-friendly control in the gun is the slide release. Do these (specifically the P226 Mk25, with either original or Mec-Gar magazines) auto-forward how reliably?
SRT, short trigger, E² grips... Are these US market only parts, or available elsewhere too? How involved procedures are installing these parts? Anything I should be aware of?
Who makes left-handed duty holsters for these? I use Blade-Tech with my existing firearms, but apparently they will only make Sig P226 mk25 duty holsters that are right-handed. I would prefer to mount a light on the gun in this application.

I recently got a Mk25 and I think its a fantastic pistol but shooting a WHO routine (lefty in my case); yeah that slide release warn't easy. I would just sling shot it (or hook the rear sight if truly WHO) and press on.

Re lefty holsters, I'd digging into Safariland Mk25 options now and I think you'll find some lefty options there.

[ReverendMeat]

Tony1911,
I don't recall the slides auto-forwarding on any of the SIGs I've owned and shot. As JHC said, just sling shot it. Yeah, your FAST times will take a hit but you'll still be better off than a lot of right handed SIG shooters who's slides fail to lock half the time.

Don't know if the parts you mentioned are restricted to US only, but they're easy enough to install. Though IMO I would not bother with the short trigger or E2 grips. The SRT just requires a punch, though a flathead screwdriver helps too.

[L-2]

I bought a P226R with long extractor. I took a chance on the long extractor. At 8,000 rounds, I began getting intermittent failures to extract. I took another chance and ordered the parts and tool to change the extractor springs. This took care of the problem, thank goodness, while getting some experience in detail stripping a long-extractor version of a SIG slide.

Summary, I'd also recommend the short extractor as on the Mk 25 if I were to do it again and not worry about the initial price difference.

[Trukinjp13]

I call BS on this. Yes, the MEC Gar's have nicer finish. I've used both Italian / MEC Gar and checkmate SIG Mags without issue. There is a fair amount of Derp and a fair number of non shooting "gun fondlers" on sites like M4C and various brand specific sites. They hear "check mate made mags" and they immediately assume all checkmate mags are crap due to the issues with the Phosphate finished military contract M9 mags. Not realizing those mags were made with a phosphate finish at the insistence of the U.S. Military over checkmates objections and recommendations.

That is fine but I have personally seen issues with check mates in Sigs. Have also read quite a few people that had problems. Sent them to Sig and Sig sent new ones back. This was years ago though. First thought was maybe extractor related but they were tried in long and short extractor Sigs. But yes, it is crazy how blown out of proportion things get. I run both and do not have issues with either. I just prefer my higher capacity mec-gars

[Chef]

The Mk25 shows up about twice per year for $799. At that price the juice is totally worth it.


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[LockedBreech]

The Mk25 shows up about twice per year for $799. At that price the juice is totally worth it.


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I gotta get better at finding these deals

[Chef]

I gotta get better at finding these deals

Last year Buds and Wideners both had it for $799. Buds had you request a lower price but Wideners was advertised.

[El Cid]

The one non-friendly control in the gun is the slide release. Do these (specifically the P226 Mk25, with either original or Mec-Gar magazines) auto-forward how reliably?
SRT, short trigger, E² grips... Are these US market only parts, or available elsewhere too? How involved procedures are installing these parts? Anything I should be aware of?
Who makes left-handed duty holsters for these? I use Blade-Tech with my existing firearms, but apparently they will only make Sig P226 mk25 duty holsters that are right-handed. I would prefer to mount a light on the gun in this application.

I've seen it mentioned on this site before, but Defoor taught a buddy of mine a technique that is very fast and easy for lefty reloads.

As your right hand drives the mag into place, extend your fingers and use the right middle finger to engage the slide stop lever. After some practice it looks faster than right hand use of the slide stop.