View Full Version : Glock 17 vs 19 -- MOS
For many years, I have thought of the Glock 19 as being easier to carry, and the 17 as easier to shoot.
A few months back, I got a Gen 4 19 MOS and a DP Pro optic, to revisit the RDS concept. I really like the large DP Pro display, but that same large display makes BUIS a problem. Between that and the funky intensity controls on the Pro, I basically rejected it as a carry possibility. In the last week, I started messing around with my 19 MOS, and as mentioned in another thread, felt like it had a positive impact on iron sight tracking with my CZ Shadow Production pistol.
I have had so much fun shooting the 19 MOS, I decided I would shoot a few USPSA matches in Carry Optics, using a Glock and the DP Pro. Based on past experience with the 19 and 17, I ordered a 17 MOS and another DP Pro to use for competition, figuring it would be better. That pistol arrived yesterday afternoon, and I got to the range this morning to sight in the optic and evaluate how much better it shot than the 19 MOS.
It took about 8 cartridges to get the DP Pro on the 17 zeroed at 25 yards. Then I started shooting drills, starting with the Garcia Dot drill. Following that, I shot a half dozen different tasks, from mixed steel and cardboard USPSA style arrays, to steel at 10 yards, and steel at 25 yards. Here was the stunner -- I shot EVERY task better with the 19 MOS than the 17 MOS. And not a just a tad better, but significantly better.
My guess is the 19 slide is lighter, and tracks flatter. When you take away the sight radius advantage of the 17 with the DP Pro, the flatter tracking really stands out. It is also possible that the difference in the 19 grip is involved, but I have not noticed that in 17 vs 19 shooting in the past.
breakingtime91
03-23-2016, 01:18 PM
How is your rds shooting with the red dot comared to irons?
Very interesting! YUUUUGE in fact. Imagine next the KKM with comp as DocGKR has set one or more up?
Have you shot out at 100 yards with that yet?
How tall would you need to go to get irons visible? Suppressor sights don't cut it?
karmapolice
03-23-2016, 02:06 PM
Once the red dot is introduce the slide length for sight radius become less important. I carry a 34 at work because we can only carry with iron sights and the 34 has the advantage of the longer sight radius, reduced felt recoil, etc. Off duty I carried what is called the Roland Glock (creators pseudonym). The Roland basically is any generation glock 19 with a red dot milled, kkm barrel, and a kkm compensator. This package comes out to be about the same length of a 34 and will fit in holster for a 34 as long as they can compensate for the red dot. Its great for carry as you have the 19 grip, but you have a soft shooting easy to track gun with a red dot.
I have a 17 and a 19 with irons I barely shoot now, I much prefer to shoot my Roland special or my 34. I have a holster from Tony (JM Custom Kydex) that works for both my 34 and Roland, it's the same or similar to the one Doc runs.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/669/22318258226_bf5a1357bc_b.jpg
Crappy holster photo, I don't have any better ones on my computer right now.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1631/25711684580_ff90fb669c_z.jpg
How is your rds shooting with the red dot comared to irons?
I can shoot the MOS 19 better than a regular 19, regular 17 or the MOS 17 at distance, and I am no slower than iron sights up close. Tougher comparison with my CZ Shadow, as I have gamed and trained with them for the last five months.
Very interesting! YUUUUGE in fact. Imagine next the KKM with comp as DocGKR has set one or more up?
Have you shot out at 100 yards with that yet?
Nope, haven't shot beyond 35 yards yet. I am not interested in a comp as that is not allowed in carry optics, and I don't see it for my carry use.
How tall would you need to go to get irons visible? Suppressor sights don't cut it?
Pretty darn tall. Suarez, I believe, makes a set that will work, but they look YUUUUGE. :)
When Aimpoint releases an optic, if it is their typical quality, I will likely go all in with a RDS on my timmie guns.
DocGKR
03-23-2016, 06:10 PM
We visited this previously: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?15857-G19-with-RMR06-and-KKM-compensator
After seeing benefits of RDS use on duty pistols, a number of officers around here had sub-compact back-up (BUG) and compact off-duty pistols equipped with RDS’s (primarily S&W Shield, G26, S&W M&P9c, and G19). Interestingly, many felt the compact pistols with shorter slides were actually easier to shoot accurately and rapidly with the RDS compared to the larger duty pistols. With an RDS equipped pistol, there is no “sight radius”, so there is no accuracy benefit to having a pistol with a longer slide. In addition, many end-users report that when shooting rapidly, it is easier to track the RDS dot shot-to-shot when mounted on a shorter slide. As a result, many shooters who previously used long slide, iron sighted pistols like the G34/G35 to benefit from the enhanced sight radius on demanding shots requiring precision accuracy have now found they can use a smaller pistol like a G19 with an RDS and shoot just as accurately with the smaller pistol as they previously would with longer iron sighted handguns. Going one step further, folks found that with a compensator installed, they can have a compact handgun that is softer shooting, lighter weight, and offers better accuracy than their previous iron sighted long slide pistols. As a result, late last year, we began testing the use of RDS equipped G19's with KKM compensators attached. Note that this is described in our 5 yr updated RDS test report.
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/G19%20comp%20RMR06%20x300U_zpshfaoztua.jpg
The KKM compensated G19's have a bit more blast than a stock G19, but not anything to complain about. In slow fire at 25 yds, they shoot just as accurately as any other G19 with a match barrel--I shot two KKM compensated G19's yesterday slow fire at 25 yds and got a 100-5x & 99-3x. Where the KKM compensated G19's shine is in rapid fire, they are slightly faster, but more importantly result in much tighter shot groups, especially at longer distances. I am a huge fan of the DOW; a couple of recent DOW allowed quantifiable data to be gleaned from shooting the same drill with a G19 with both a KKM compensated barrel and a non-compensated KKM barrel: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?15590-Week-106-Three-Bills and https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?15746-Week-108-GM-Test. The compensated G19 was consistently faster to shoot--particularly at longer ranges, generally offered better accuracy, and had noticeably tighter groups. When shot 10 rounds slow fire at 25 yds on an NRA B8 target, the KKM comp barrel shot 99-3x, the KKM standard barrel shot 100-3x.
The G19 with KKM compensator is the same size as the previously used G34's and fit into standard G34 holsters, including the excellent Safariland ALS 6354DO.
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/G34%20vs%20G19%20comp_zps3mtlmkka.jpg
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/G19%20comp%20in%206354DO%20x300U_zpsd3ydjwjw.jpg
DocGKR
03-23-2016, 06:21 PM
Pay very close attention to post #48 in the linked previous thread....
breakingtime91
03-23-2016, 06:33 PM
Pay very close attention to post #48 in the linked previous thread....
doc are you running rmr07 or rmr 06?
SGT_Calle
03-23-2016, 07:27 PM
I set up a MOS 19 with the DP PRO as well and I've found (in my limited time shooting it) that the red dot is easy to track because of that Yuuuge view window. I only have a MOS 34 w/ an RMR to compare it to though. That may be a product of how naturally glocks seem to point for me too though, maybe due to just tons of presentations with a Sirt pistol.
I installed the Dawson MOS sights and they don't have nearly enough height unfortunately.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
DocGKR
03-23-2016, 07:31 PM
RMR06 on everything.
Pay very close attention to post #48 in the linked previous thread....
Still no change from me on the comp. Leaving aside that it isn't legal in Carry Optics, it makes for a longer thing to carry, and there are maintenance considerations, that comp'd pistol is about the last thing I would want presented to a grand jury or jury at trial. These days, where the Feds seem to be looking for prosecutions, I bet there are a number of LE folks that also wouldn't want a different looking, comp'd pistol to be a consideration in a shooting.
DocGKR
03-23-2016, 08:00 PM
If it is your issued LE pistol, there would be no problem.
BillSWPA
03-23-2016, 08:05 PM
Still no change from me on the comp. Leaving aside that it isn't legal in Carry Optics, it makes for a longer thing to carry, and there are maintenance considerations, that comp'd pistol is about the last thing I would want presented to a grand jury or jury at trial. These days, where the Feds seem to be looking for prosecutions, I bet there are a number of LE folks that also wouldn't want a different looking, comp'd pistol to be a consideration in a shooting.
How is something that makes the gun easier to shoot accurately, and therefore poses less danger to third parties, going to be harmful in front of a jury?
If it is your issued LE pistol, there would be no problem.
That makes perfect sense, I was thinking of a one off choice.
My wife is very Glock centric -- mostly carries a 26/43, and has four Glock 34 pistols for gaming/training. Yesterday she announced she wanted to shoot the MOS 17. Previously shot less than a magazine four or five years ago, and no other RDS experience. I suggested the 19, but she said it was too small and had a crappy trigger, so the 17 it was.
She had a ball with it, and not a single time was fishing for the dot, despite this MOS having no BUIS. Her times were comparable to her 34 at 10 yards and in, but she was faster and more accurate on the harder targets. I did a wide variety of drills from bills on a partial at 7, to bills at 25, and a bunch of USPSA arrays, and I am faster with the 19 MOS than my CZ Shadow with iron sights. My tentative plan is to shoot a few matches in CO and then evaluate.
BTW, my wife says the 17 MOS is now her pistol.
BTW, my wife says the 17 MOS is now her pistol.
Problem solved !
GJM did she get to try running the 19 after the 17 even though she preferred the 17? Curious how her performance could be different between the two like yours was.
LtDave
03-25-2016, 02:53 PM
I have a G23 and a G17 with RMRs. I've shot a lot more rounds thru the G17, but I prefer the way the G23 feels and tracks, even with the slightly increased recoil. The G23, an RTF2, was a very accurate gun from the outset and other than the RMR is stock. The G17 was just ok for accuracy until I installed a Wilson barrel. It now equals or even betters the G23 accuracy wise. The G17 has a Vanek trigger like all my competition Glocks.
GJM did she get to try running the 19 after the 17 even though she preferred the 17? Curious how her performance could be different between the two like yours was.
No meaningful data. She said the 19 MOS was "too small and the trigger too heavy (for her) to waste her time" shooting it. It will likely take me kicking her butt on drills a few weeks to change her opinion. Then it will be "why don't you have a 19 MOS ready for me?" In fairness, she is spoiled by her Gen 3 34 triggers shot in tens of thousands of rounds.
We are shooting with Robbie Leatham week after next, and my plan now is to shoot the 19 MOS.
We shot the MOS 17 (her) and MOS 19 (me) in our practice session today. Here is my wife shooting a steel array, when the first target is just over 10 yards, and the far two are twenty something yards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-0tXYZt_5Q
And, on the other end of the spectrum, here I am shooting a close array consisting of two eight inch steel at eight yards, and three open USPSA targets at ten yards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38kWF4c_MJE
Nice!
I really am tempted to give an red dot on a pistol a try. I think I want to hold off a little longer. I have a feeling as soon as I do it that something better will come along.
StraitR
03-26-2016, 08:50 PM
Nice shooting G, by you and the Mrs.
While a direct mount might get the optic lower, the beauty of the MOS is you can likely use whatever is the latest and greatest optic. I bet 2016 brings good things in that regard.
Lots of confluence going on -- USPSA Carry Optics, the MOS from Glock, 320 RX, and some new optics on the horizon. May get traction with timmies and gamers -- Gary is probably chuckling.
Nice!
I really am tempted to give an red dot on a pistol a try. I think I want to hold off a little longer. I have a feeling as soon as I do it that something better will come along.
That's the beauty of the MOS or the Unity Tactical ATOM slide. You are not tied to one optic if your requirements change or something better comes along.
LOKNLOD
03-26-2016, 09:34 PM
I think a 19 MOS is my next purchase...worst case scenario, I overpaid a bit for another G19.
I think a 19 MOS is my next purchase...worst case scenario, I overpaid a bit for another G19.
They are on Gun Broker for $700-800 but they should be only about $80 or so more than a standard Glock.
They are on Gun Broker for $700-800 but they should be only about $80 or so more than a standard Glock.
I just bought another on GB for $589. $599 is real common now on GB.
I just bought another on GB for $589. $599 is real common now on GB.
Local shop had one at $565. Their competition 10 minutes away wanted $699 for a G17 MOS. Sem-local blue label dealer has them at $477 vs $398 for regular Glocks.
LOKNLOD
03-26-2016, 10:39 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160327/c16da0888c913629f05dcaa421b1e1eb.jpg
Thanks, guys, for reminding me just how much my local shops' pricing sucks.
StraitR
03-26-2016, 10:56 PM
If the right new optic came along, I would definitely take a Gen 4 19 MOS plus gadget for a spin.
In order for one to kick the P30 out of my bed, I would need to see more iron sight options on top of the new uber reliable optic that also doesn't exist yet. Then there's paying out the additional $400 to replace my current glock holsters with one's that accommodate the extra tall suppressor sights needed for the MOS.
If the right new optic came along, I would definitely take a Gen 4 19 MOS plus gadget for a spin.
In order for one to kick the P30 out of my bed, I would need to see more iron sight options on top of the new uber reliable optic that also doesn't exist yet. Then there's paying out the additional $400 to replace my current glock holsters with one's that accommodate the extra tall suppressor sights needed for the MOS.
No doubt HK is working on an optics ready VP9. Last rumor I heard was a VP9sk in 2020 and the optics ready VP9 in 2025.
StraitR
03-27-2016, 11:56 AM
No doubt HK is working on an optics ready VP9. Last rumor I heard was a VP9sk in 2020 and the optics ready VP9 in 2025.
No doubt they are, and the timeline seems historically reasonable. I would be concerned if I were married to HK.
Nephrology
03-27-2016, 11:59 AM
No doubt HK is working on an optics ready VP9. Last rumor I heard was a VP9sk in 2020 and the optics ready VP9 in 2025.
By 2025 I will have finished two doctoral degrees...
My wife and I have been really enjoying shooting the MOS pistols. We generally start each session by shooting five shots into the one inch square on the PF target at 7 yards. With the MOS, we have extended this to 10 yards.
Yesterday, we had a big shoot em up, starting with the Stoeger accelerator drill (thanks Luke for mentioning this in your journal), Garcia dot drills, and a bunch of other tough drills. After each shooting about 500 rounds, we were knackered. Still, it seemed like my POI was off a little and I made a small correction in windage. I have witness marks on the DP to make sure things aren't moving. My last shooting was a steel at 25, and that seemed harder.
This morning, we headed down early to shoot Garcia dot drills. I put a Taran trigger in my 19, and was keen on tearing up some dots. When I shot the one inch square, a few shots were out, and I couldn't correlate that to trigger. Pushed through the dot drills, and would occasionally get shots out that I couldn't explain. I went to 15, and shot a group that was a few inches high and left. Grabbed my iron sight 19, and put five shots into one hole at 7 yards. Seemed like it wasn't me.
First, I focused on ammo, ruled that out with some reference AE 147. Shot a group at 25 yards, and my shots were four inches high and left. Started looking at the pistol, and damn, the optic was loose on the MOS mount. I was happy and sad.
Got it home, and both the base plate and DP were loose. Started with the base plate, coated the bottom in blue lactate, more lactate on the screws and snugged it down. Then added locket to the DP screws and snugged it down. Will do the same to our 17 MOS, and then try to head back to the range to see that all is well.
Got it home, and both the base plate and DP were loose. Started with the base plate, coated the bottom in blue lactate, more lactate on the screws and snugged it down.
Blue lactate, ...eew, gross.
Mr_White
03-28-2016, 01:01 PM
Blue lactate, ...eew, gross.
Yeah that's what I was about to say too
Hey, apparently my spell checker is not familiar are with Loctite tm.
Back to the range, and post the blue Loctite exercise, all seems secure. I bet there a bunch of optics on MOS pistols that are loose or in the process of coming loose.
For carry, it seems the direct milled installation is the way to go, but you have to settle on an optic. Refresh me, is there a difference in the way L&M direct mills vs ATEI, in terms of how secure the optic will be?
Lester Polfus
03-28-2016, 04:21 PM
Blue lactate, ...eew, gross.
Is that the stuff from the first Star Wars movie?
RevolverRob
03-28-2016, 08:26 PM
FYI - G17/G19 MOS are now listed for one to get with a GSSF coupon; $477.
I have been tempted by that price range. But I am leaning more towards waiting to see what red-dots 2016/2017 brings and what new pistolas come out optics ready. I'm not really happy with the DP Pro and the RMR and I just can't seem to get on the same page. I've eyed the Docter III in person and I like it, but the robustness is questionable. So, I can't convince myself to go for it.
aboveandbeyond
03-28-2016, 08:33 PM
FYI - G17/G19 MOS are now listed for one to get with a GSSF coupon; $477.
I have been tempted by that price range. But I am leaning more towards waiting to see what red-dots 2016/2017 brings and what new pistolas come out optics ready. I'm not really happy with the DP Pro and the RMR and I just can't seem to get on the same page. I've eyed the Docter III in person and I like it, but the robustness is questionable. So, I can't convince myself to go for it.
Tried a burris FF3? I would give them a serious look. Big window, open top battery change, 8 MOA, transferable lifetime warranty.
StraitR
05-09-2016, 12:02 PM
In an email conversation with another PF member, he brought up his desire to get a 19 MOS. Since then, I've been thinking about it myself. Seven years ago I bought an RMR02 and Trijicon glock rear sight mount to give the concept a try. I played with it for six months, but never took to it. With the new MOS models and gaining popularity of putting a MRDS on pistols, I've decided to give it another go.
Any reason I should not go with the 19 MOS?
In an email conversation with another PF member, he brought up his desire to get a 19 MOS. Since then, I've been thinking about it myself. Seven years ago I bought an RMR02 and Trijicon glock rear sight mount to give the concept a try. I played with it for six months, but never took to it. With the new MOS models and gaining popularity of putting a MRDS on pistols, I've decided to give it another go.
Any reason I should not go with the 19 MOS?
Yep, 19 MOS, RMR06, Dawson tritium BUIS.
StraitR
05-09-2016, 01:47 PM
Yep, 19 MOS, RMR06, Dawson tritium BUIS.
I've still got the RMR02, currently doing nothing, so I'll start with that to see how serious I am about a MRDS pistol.
What holster are you using with the higher suppressor sights? I don't see them fitting in my Keeper.
I've still got the RMR02, currently doing nothing, so I'll start with that to see how serious I am about a MRDS pistol.
What holster are you using with the higher suppressor sights? I don't see them fitting in my Keeper.
I still have two RMR02's from some years back that are still going strong. Tony at JM has made me a George, Universal and OWB that work with legacy and MOS Glock pistols. My Blade-Tech holsters are iffy with the tall BUIS required by the MOS.
StraitR
05-09-2016, 02:26 PM
I still have two RMR02's from some years back that are still going strong. Tony at JM has made me a George, Universal and OWB that work with legacy and MOS Glock pistols. My Blade-Tech holsters are iffy with the tall BUIS required by the MOS.
Excellent on both accounts. I'll reach out to Tony. The RMR taunts me every time I open the safe, so it's just a matter of finding a 19 MOS. There are several on GB right at $610, but I'm waiting to hear back from my local sources about availability.
Excellent on both accounts. I'll reach out to Tony. The RMR taunts me every time I open the safe, so it's just a matter of finding a 19 MOS. There are several on GB right at $610, but I'm waiting to hear back from my local sources about availability.
If you have a G4 19, you can often snag just a MOS slide for less.
If you have a G4 19, you can often snag just a MOS slide for less.
Two listed at $466.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=557707021
Sent from my iPhone
StraitR
05-09-2016, 02:52 PM
Two listed at $466.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=557707021
Sent from my iPhone
Looks like both of those are 17 slides G. Not a bad way to go I guess, but at that price I'd rather spend another $160 for the whole pistol.
JSGlock34
05-14-2016, 12:45 PM
Sigh. Was working on my 25 yard groups with my Glock 17MOS and RM06...felt like I was really making process when suddenly it seemed like the zero was shifting. Groups opened up dramatically and frustration started to set in...until I realized that one of the two mounting screws that secures the RMR to the slide had worked itself out and popped right off. The RMR was barely secured by the other screw and shifting with each shot.
Any idea where to get a replacement screw or do I really need to order another one of these kits?
AC32064: Trijicon RMR® Mounting Kit - Fits Glock® MOS Models (https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=AC32064)
secondstoryguy
05-14-2016, 02:09 PM
Does anyone know if the glock MOS pistols will fit in the Safariland MRDS holsters?
Sigh. Was working on my 25 yard groups with my Glock 17MOS and RM06...felt like I was really making process when suddenly it seemed like the zero was shifting. Groups opened up dramatically and frustration started to set in...until I realized that one of the two mounting screws that secures the RMR to the slide had worked itself out and popped right off. The RMR was barely secured by the other screw and shifting with each shot.
Any idea where to get a replacement screw or do I really need to order another one of these kits?
AC32064: Trijicon RMR® Mounting Kit - Fits Glock® MOS Models (https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=AC32064)
Go to any hardware store and find out what thread pitch the screws are if you dont know. Measure the length of the screw. Go to McMaster Carr and buy 50 for under $10
StraitR
05-14-2016, 03:50 PM
Sigh. Was working on my 25 yard groups with my Glock 17MOS and RM06...felt like I was really making process when suddenly it seemed like the zero was shifting. Groups opened up dramatically and frustration started to set in...until I realized that one of the two mounting screws that secures the RMR to the slide had worked itself out and popped right off. The RMR was barely secured by the other screw and shifting with each shot.
Any idea where to get a replacement screw or do I really need to order another one of these kits?
AC32064: Trijicon RMR® Mounting Kit - Fits Glock® MOS Models (https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=AC32064)
This was posted in another thread, seems to be the cheapest I've seen....
http://www.scopeworx.com/Scopeworx_Glock_MOS_RMR_Screw_Set_p/sw-rmrscrews.htm
I picked my 19 MOS up last night. From reading some of George's comments about his coming loose, I basically bedded the mounting plate with blue loctite and then applied copious amounts to the four screws. Initial impressions are good. Now I need to get a set of Dawson sights coming and a holster ordered from Tony.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7423/26391791264_3e8a1f0921_c.jpg
StraitR
05-15-2016, 10:00 AM
Took some assorted power tools to my Keeper. Got a holster sorted out for range/dry fire work.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7479/26755326610_43535a4dcc_c.jpg
StraitR
05-15-2016, 04:04 PM
Yep, 19 MOS, RMR06, Dawson tritium BUIS.
G, how do the Dawson's regulate?
breakingtime91
05-15-2016, 05:33 PM
Took some assorted power tools to my Keeper. Got a holster sorted out for range/dry fire work.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7479/26755326610_43535a4dcc_c.jpg
damnit Craig, now I need to get one.
G, how do the Dawson's regulate?
Fine, I verified POA/POI before installing the RMR.
StraitR
05-15-2016, 06:29 PM
damnit Craig, now I need to get one.
It's all your fault anyway. :p
You won't be disappointed. I've done more dry fire presentations in the last 48 hours than I ever have before. I'm pretty excited to get my pair of gadgets at this point. The P30 LEM and VP9 will be going up for sale on Hk Pro Soon™.
ETA: email inbound.
Fine, I verified POA/POI before installing the RMR.
Thank you. I know you're particular about how sights regulate. I'll be ordering mine after I get the family all tucked in tonight.
Thank you. I know you're particular about how sights regulate. I'll be ordering mine after I get the family all tucked in tonight.
I didn't do crazy amounts of shooting with them, since they are just reserve sights, but they seemed to work for their intended purpose.
I can't find a picture of the Dawson sights, but these are the Ameriglo tritium BUIS sights at 25 yards on a direct milled 19. If you feel in a belt and suspenders mood, you can check the dimensions of the MOS BUIS on the Dawson website and compare them to the dimensions of the Ameriglo BUIS.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsudm4hnpy.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsudm4hnpy.jpeg.html)
StraitR
05-15-2016, 08:00 PM
Does Ameriglo make specific sights for the MOS? The only Ameriglo suppressor sights I can find have comments on Amazon that they do not co-witness with the MOS + RMR.
These... http://www.amazon.com/Ameriglo-Tall-Suppress-Tritium-Glock/dp/B004SY5AHC
ETA: I like the overall design of the Dawson's much better. Specifically the rounded serrated rear and base at the bottom of the front sight.
Does Ameriglo make specific sights for the MOS? The only Ameriglo suppressor sights I can find have comments on Amazon that they do not co-witness with the MOS + RMR.
These... http://www.amazon.com/Ameriglo-Tall-Suppress-Tritium-Glock/dp/B004SY5AHC
ETA: I like the overall design of the Dawson's much better. Specifically the rounded serrated rear and base at the bottom of the front sight.
I wasn't suggesting there is an Ameriglo for the MOS, or if so, they would be more desirable than the Dawson sights, only that you could compare sight dimensions and correlate that with the Ameriglo BUIS 25 yard picture I posted above.
StraitR
05-15-2016, 08:23 PM
I wasn't suggesting there is an Ameriglo for the MOS, or if so, they would be more desirable than the Dawson sights, only that you could compare sight dimensions and correlate that with the Ameriglo BUIS 25 yard picture I posted above.
Tracking. The only height I can find on Ameriglo's website (catalog) is the rear at .394. For whatever reason, they still only like publishing full dimensions for FO's. The good news is, they have a new website. The bad news is, it still sucks.
This was posted in another thread, seems to be the cheapest I've seen....
http://www.scopeworx.com/Scopeworx_Glock_MOS_RMR_Screw_Set_p/sw-rmrscrews.htm
I picked my 19 MOS up last night. From reading some of George's comments about his coming loose, I basically bedded the mounting plate with blue loctite and then applied copious amounts to the four screws. Initial impressions are good. Now I need to get a set of Dawson sights coming and a holster ordered from Tony.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7423/26391791264_3e8a1f0921_c.jpg
Officially jealous. Still waiting for my G19MOS. I'm 16th on the waiting list @ local cop shop.
StraitR
05-16-2016, 03:37 PM
Officially jealous. Still waiting for my G19MOS. I'm 16th on the waiting list @ local cop shop.
Officially feeling guilty. If anyone should have one, it should be the boys in blue.
On a side note, this is the first glock I've purchased in probably three years. The finish on this MOS is different and is already showing wear after three days and 100ish presentations from a RCS Phantom and maybe 30 from a Keeper. I have thousands on an older Gen 4 19 and Gen 4 17 with nary a mark sans some shine on a few high spots around the muzzle.
Officially feeling guilty. If anyone should have one, it should be the boys in blue.
On a side note, this is the first glock I've purchased in probably three years. The finish on this MOS is different and is already showing wear after three days and 100ish presentations from a RCS Phantom and maybe 30 from a Keeper. I have thousands on an older Gen 4 19 and Gen 4 17 with nary a mark sans some shine on a few high spots around the muzzle.
That new finish is a feature -- it used to take much more effort to make your Glock look look like it is owned by an operator.
StraitR
05-16-2016, 04:10 PM
That new finish is a feature -- it used to take much more effort to make your Glock look look like it is owned by an operator.
Lot's of internet operators just lost some street cred. -50 experience points for worn new glock finish, poser.
I hear we're moving in the direction of pre-ripped jeans. Like those "battle-damaged" action figures they used to sell when I was a kid.
Officially feeling guilty. If anyone should have one, it should be the boys in blue.
On a side note, this is the first glock I've purchased in probably three years. The finish on this MOS is different and is already showing wear after three days and 100ish presentations from a RCS Phantom and maybe 30 from a Keeper. I have thousands on an older Gen 4 19 and Gen 4 17 with nary a mark sans some shine on a few high spots around the muzzle.
No need to feel guilty at all. Not LEO so I'm OK with waiting. I use the local cop shop cause they have the best prices in town for the most part, treat me nice and offer fair deals on trades. Plus the mall ninja crowd stay away and the sales folks aren't all DevGru/Delta authorized to carry a grenade round their neck types.
StraitR
05-18-2016, 07:47 PM
Dawson sights arrived today. They're taller than I expected. RCS Eidolon should be here Friday. Hope to get out this weekend and put some time in with it.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7740/27008056892_897c4d8166_c.jpg
StraitR
05-28-2016, 06:50 PM
Just to come back and give feedback for anyone that may be looking at setting up an MOS.
I found the Dawson MOS sights too tall, and being of rectangular design, ultimately covered more the of already small RMR window than I liked. I ordered a set of Ameriglo (GL-329) suppressor sights to try and although they came pre-rusted in the package, I greatly prefer the sight picture. They're considerably lower, and the tapered design blocks very little of the RMR. I see why Dawson designed theirs to be taller, but I didn't care for them. YMMV
I'd compare the Dawson's to be more like absolute co-witness where the Ameriglo's are more lower 1/3. So, it depends on what you want/need to see.
ETA: The Ameriglo's were $74 (Amazon) and the Dawson's were $118 (Direct).
Craig, good info on the Ameriglo BUIS.
Earlier in May, I shot one 50 yard group with my 19/RMR and Gold Dot 124+P that was pretty small. That was the only group I shot then and when I showed it to a friend at Glock, he asked if I could repeat that on a clean target that would look pretty, and he needed it by the end of May. Today, I realized May was almost over, and I needed to go try it. The clean target was the easy part, but one group on demand was obviously the hard part. To make matters worse, I could only find five rounds of Gold Dot here at our cabin, and town and more Gold Dot is 99 miles by plane away.
This afternoon, I set it up. Glock 19/RMR 06, Gold Dot 124+P, shot from prone. The first shot felt a bit sloppy, but the next four felt good. Here are the results, which obviously were decent, or they wouldn't be worth a photo.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zps5jkj0nna.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zps5jkj0nna.jpeg.html)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpssw4or0u0.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpssw4or0u0.jpeg.html)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpsgdc6eapd.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpsgdc6eapd.jpeg.html)
The Gen 4 19/RMR/Gold Dot seems like a really good combination.
StraitR
05-28-2016, 11:17 PM
That's some seriously good shooting, never mind on demand with only 5 rounds to use with the closest resupply 99 miles away by plane. You can't make that crap up! haha. Match pressure, what is this match pressure you speak of? :cool:
Isaac
05-29-2016, 10:09 AM
If one didnt want to CCW an RMR'd Glock, would it be worth going with a G17 comped vs a G19 comped, would the perceived less recoil of a G17 trump the decreased dot mov't of the shorter slide G19?
Paul D
05-29-2016, 03:51 PM
I too am exploring getting a CCW Glock with a RDS. I have to wear specialized contacts for my eyes and it won't let my vision accommodate to see my front sight anymore. So I got a Glock 17 MOS and a Vortex Venom. I got the Venom on Amazon Prime for $229 shipped. The difference between the Vortex Razor and Viper: The Viper sits lower, but has a 6 MOA dot and is wider/less streamline. The Razor does not have external exposed screws on the side and its controls are on top. However it is slightly bigger/taller and has an automatic shutoff for the dot at 6 hours (the Venom shuts off after 14 hours and has a 30,000 hour battery life at the lowest brightness setting). I considered the RMR because it has a longer history of durability and ruggedness. However the the window was kinda small. The window on the Venom is comparable to the Deltapoint. So far after 1000 rounds it works great. The dot is consistent, it holds zero and I've purposely dropped it on the hood on the hard ground several times without anything happening. So far my shooting has improved a lot with it. The only downside is my draw to first shot is slower since I'm learning to find the dot automatically. As far as BUIS, I am using the Ameriglo GL-329 suppressor sights. The front sight is 0.305 inches high. When the dot is at the center of the window, the front sight peeks up above the bottom of the window. However you cannot line up the the front and rear sights because the Venom bottom edge of the window lines up exactly to the front and rear sights. I am still debating whether to get the taller Dawson sight set or not.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i45/pnduong/IMG_1802_zpsjqr5r3du.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i45/pnduong/IMG_1806_zpsmumqkgub.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i45/pnduong/IMG_1807_zpsszm1ewmh.jpg
Two possibilities for a slower red dot draw:
1) you are hunting for the dot
2) you are waiting for the dot to stabilize before pressing the trigger
If the issue is #1, then some combination of dry fire practice and/or BUIS will fix that. If the issue is #2, it may be you need to press the trigger as soon as the dot touches your target, rather than trying to stabilize the dot. Robbie Leatham pointed out #2 to me, and it immediately shaved .3 off my draw, bringing it back to iron sight times.
Paul D
05-29-2016, 04:18 PM
Two possibilities for a slower red dot draw:
1) you are hunting for the dot
2) you are waiting for the dot to stabilize before pressing the trigger
If the issue is #1, then some combination of dry fire practice and/or BUIS will fix that. If the issue is #2, it may be you need to press the trigger as soon as the dot touches your target, rather than trying to stabilize the dot. Robbie Leatham pointed out #2 to me, and it immediately shaved .3 off my draw, bringing it back to iron sight times.
I think it is #1: hunting for the dot. As soon as I see the dot, I 'jerk' the trigger and it hits. I just need to practice my press out more. I am also looking to shave off about 0.3 sec too to get to my old draw time. But man oh man, this RDS on the handgun thing is like getting glasses for the first time. I am now getting off the plateau I was stuck on before and getting better.
Two possibilities for a slower red dot draw:
1) you are hunting for the dot
2) you are waiting for the dot to stabilize before pressing the trigger
If the issue is #1, then some combination of dry fire practice and/or BUIS will fix that. If the issue is #2, it may be you need to press the trigger as soon as the dot touches your target, rather than trying to stabilize the dot. Robbie Leatham pointed out #2 to me, and it immediately shaved .3 off my draw, bringing it back to iron sight times.
I've seen from loaner guns that dot isn't going to be as still at speed as the irons APPEAR to be. Just pressing when it hits the A zone seems to get hits fast.
StraitR
05-29-2016, 05:33 PM
I've seen from loaner guns that dot isn't going to be as still at speed as the irons APPEAR to be. Just pressing when it hits the A zone seems to get hits fast.
I think understanding the wobble zone as it compares to irons is important. I need to hit the range and really focus on finding the outer limits of the RDS wobble zone at various distances and still get my hits.
The dot definitely magnifies movement, which has helped my trigger pull tremendously in dry fire. Every little imperfection is amplified, and I think the trigger manipulation diagnosing capabilities of a RDS on a pistol is undervalued. Calling shots is much easier because the dot makes it pretty much obvious what was going on when the shot broke.
Paul, you may look at the Dawson MOS sights if you want/need something a bit taller. I'll send you the set I have if you want to try them.
Paul D
05-29-2016, 11:05 PM
I think understanding the wobble zone as it compares to irons is important. I need to hit the range and really focus on finding the outer limits of the RDS wobble zone at various distances and still get my hits.
The dot definitely magnifies movement, which has helped my trigger pull tremendously in dry fire. Every little imperfection is amplified, and I think the trigger manipulation diagnosing capabilities of a RDS on a pistol is undervalued. Calling shots is much easier because the dot makes it pretty much obvious what was going on when the shot broke.
Paul, you may look at the Dawson MOS sights if you want/need something a bit taller. I'll send you the set I have if you want to try them.
Thanks for the offer! PM sent.
StraitR
05-29-2016, 11:38 PM
Thanks for the offer! PM sent.
Replied. Glad to help.
Handy
05-29-2016, 11:46 PM
GJM,
Could you characterize how the 19 MOS performed better for you than the 17 MOS?
Was it "intrinsic" accuracy, as in better slow fire at 25 yards? Or better muzzle flip control, like in rapid shooting at a single target? Or lateral movement shooting rapidly between multiple targets?
I realize your course of fire probably involves a little of all of these in combination, I was just curious what your impression of the experience was.
GJM,
Could you characterize how the 19 MOS performed better for you than the 17 MOS?
Was it "intrinsic" accuracy, as in better slow fire at 25 yards? Or better muzzle flip control, like in rapid shooting at a single target? Or lateral movement shooting rapidly between multiple targets?
I realize your course of fire probably involves a little of all of these in combination, I was just curious what your impression of the experience was.
Can shoot faster times with the 19, because the dot seems to track flatter with the 19. Have just bought a 34 MOS slide and will also be trying it.
Whiskey_Bravo
05-30-2016, 09:44 PM
Looking forward to your impressions/results with the 34 slide
Got to shoot my 34 MOS upper with the DP Pro for the first time today. Still early, but my initial impression was that it shows promise.
First full range session with the 34 MOS/DP Pro, shooting Accelerator type drills. It is starting to grow on me -- both the weight and more substantial feel of the gun on further targets, and the larger grip allowing a bit less precision in acquiring the smaller G19 grip.
Doing my best to channel Mr_White, and trying to resist my standard summer retreat into accuracy, I went out and shot like a crack baby today with the 34 MOS. Set up the standard Accelerator (target at 7,15,25), two shots to each target, reload, and repeat. Was shooting them in the 4's and 5's, sometimes with misses, sometimes with all on the paper. It Was hard to shoot misses and keep repeating, but that is the process, and it paid off, because after that, six second pace felt leisurely.
I have spent a month or so shooting a pair of 34 MOS pistols, both with DP Pro optics. Wanted to give them a fair shake. Yesterday, I ended a 34 session, shooting two of the same drills with my 19 MOS, also with DP Pro. The drills consisted of two eight inch steel, one ten inch steel, and two USPSA cardboard targets, at 13-22 yards. One drill was draw and shoot one each target, reload, repeat. The other drill was one to each steel and two to each paper. Same ammo in both guns, 124 AE ball, and same holster/belt/pouches.
The 19 felt like I was cheating, and was +/- 15% faster with similar or better accuracy. Dot just felt like it wasn't moving as much with the 19.
I started with 25 yard groups with the 34 and ended with the same with the 19. Groups with the 19 were half the size of the 34, consistent with my past experience.
Are you still having battery issues with the DP Pro? Just saw a YouTube review where an auto brightness feature is noted.
Are you still having battery issues with the DP Pro? Just saw a YouTube review where an auto brightness feature is noted.
I turn them off when not using them, and replace the battery before every match. Not suitable for carry, but the larger, clearer window makes the Pro much better for me for gaming. No auto brightness on my three. Original marketing material mentioned auto brightness, and there is an unused hole that Mark Housel speculates was for that sensor.
Doing my best to channel Mr_White, and trying to resist my standard summer retreat into accuracy, I went out and shot like a crack baby today with the 34 MOS. Set up the standard Accelerator (target at 7,15,25), two shots to each target, reload, and repeat. Was shooting them in the 4's and 5's, sometimes with misses, sometimes with all on the paper. It Was hard to shoot misses and keep repeating, but that is the process, and it paid off, because after that, six second pace felt leisurely.
I have got to try this. Yeah I've heard of this sort of thing; just never been able to let go of the hits.
I really want to try a MOS 19 to see what all the hubbub is about. If I don't win a Glock at the next GSSF match (unlikely since I've shot nothing but Sigs for the last six months) I might need to pick one up. Anyone know if the 19MOS on the blue label list?
Josh Runkle
07-02-2016, 11:45 AM
Anyone know if the 19MOS on the blue label list?
Yes. I bought one from Kiesler's when the 19 MOS first came out.
I really want to try a MOS 19 to see what all the hubbub is about. If I don't win a Glock at the next GSSF match (unlikely since I've shot nothing but Sigs for the last six months) I might need to pick one up. Anyone know if the 19MOS on the blue label list?
Yes, finding a blue label 19 MOS in stock is another matter. I've been on the waitlist for a couple months now.
Yes, finding a blue label 19 MOS in stock is another matter. I've been on the waitlist for a couple months now.
Me 3, except I've been on the list for ANY 19MOS. Seems like they are unicorns for now.
Me 3, except I've been on the list for ANY 19MOS. Seems like they are unicorns for now.
That's cause all those slides are being diverted to FBI G19M guns. Muuhaahaahaa! ;)
This afternoon, with my Gen 4 19 MOS, I shot eight inch plates at 10, 15, 20, 25, 35, 50, 60 and 100 yards. To 50 yards, I was basically one for one on each plate offhand, at relevant speed. At 60, I had to go prone to go one for one, and then realized I needed a slight adjustment to the left, which became apparent once I repainted the plates. That adjustment came in handy at 100.
At 100 yards, I was able to go three for three on an eight plate. I was tired after that, and stopped, knowing it was not likely to be productive. My math suggests that 124 AE ball in this 19 MOS is a sub two inch gun at 25 yards, without user error, if I can go 3/3 at 100 on an eight inch plate, with me working the trigger from sitting.
Since I am not shooting 10, 20 or 30 shot groups, at Okie John's request, I am going to try to shoot one five shot group at 25 yards each range session, with my G4 19 MOS. I am using AE 124 ball. Here is my group from today.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpsd1n5zi37.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpsd1n5zi37.jpeg.html)
coldcase1984
07-15-2016, 02:36 PM
That group by GJM pushed me over the edge. I
Am now #2 on the 19 MOS wait list with GT Distributors in Chattanooga.
Uncommonly excited.:p
OnionsAndDragons
07-15-2016, 11:52 PM
All of this just makes me want real info on an Aimpoint mrds even more than I already did.
Shot one group cold at 25, AE 124, G4 19/RMR:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7jkrtifu.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7jkrtifu.jpeg.html)
You know you wanna shoot 10 shot groups ;)
You know you wanna shoot 10 shot groups ;)
Nope!
Shot one group cold at 25, AE 124, G4 19/RMR:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7jkrtifu.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7jkrtifu.jpeg.html)
Is that an IDPA target, bro? Seriously?
I'd be embarrassed to post anything with IDPA stuff in it, but that's just me...
Is that an IDPA target, bro? Seriously?
I'd be embarrassed to post anything with IDPA stuff in it, but that's just me...
These are special, collectible IDPA targets -- as they still have the old scoring markings.
Isaac
07-19-2016, 07:17 AM
GJM,
How do you're groups look with a plain G19, at 25?
Is that an IDPA target, bro? Seriously?
I'd be embarrassed to post anything with IDPA stuff in it, but that's just me...
Not only that but the group he's posting wasn't even shot with a MOS that the thread is about.
Not only that but the group he's posting wasn't even shot with a MOS that the thread is about.
I have one MOS 10 with a RMR and BUIS and a direct milled twin. Both shoot the same, group wise.
I generally shoot sub 3 inch groups at 25 with my 19 pistols with iron sights, but not as good as these last two groups.
LOKNLOD
07-19-2016, 12:12 PM
Shot one group cold at 25, AE 124, G4 19/RMR:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7jkrtifu.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7jkrtifu.jpeg.html)
I don't see what the big deal is. You didn't even break the perf on that "0" you were shooting at.
Valid point. Is that a decent group? Well, sure. But it didn't even hit the the aiming spot. You show good potential though GJM. Maybe drift that dot a little bit, some times newer shooter pull shots to the left, might help you center that group up a little.
StraitR
07-19-2016, 01:08 PM
Gonna have to agree with LNL and Luke. Looks like 5 El'Snatchos to me.
Valid point. Is that a decent group? Well, sure. But it didn't even hit the the aiming spot. You show good potential though GJM. Maybe drift that dot a little bit, some times newer shooter pull shots to the left, might help you center that group up a little.
Lmao
It was bad enough when I just had SteveB, YVK, Taadski and Gabe trollin' me, but now a bunch more seemed to have been trained up equally well.
45dotACP
07-19-2016, 08:56 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160719/0d8df39b5ad26507bf65eb740990c97c.jpg
Damn G...Beats my latest 25 yard group from a gen 3 with the same ammo...hate pulling those low shots...but AE 124 grain ball is pretty decent stuff...
I recently got turned onto the Browning BPT brand 147 grain FMJ and it has been phenomenally accurate out of my 34 + Wilson barrel...I didn't catch a photo of the group but I've turned in some of my best groups with that ammo...Do recommend.
ETA:. Ten shot groups ftmfw
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160719/0d8df39b5ad26507bf65eb740990c97c.jpg
Damn G...Beats my latest 25 yard group from a gen 3 with the same ammo...hate pulling those low shots...but AE 124 grain ball is pretty decent stuff...
I recently got turned onto the Browning BPT brand 147 grain FMJ and it has been phenomenally accurate out of my 34 + Wilson barrel...I didn't catch a photo of the group but I've turned in some of my best groups with that ammo...Do recommend.
ETA:. Ten shot groups ftmfw
Only 30 shot groups count. :)
StraitR
07-19-2016, 09:41 PM
Only 30 shot groups count. :)
But hey, two outa ten ain't bad.
Taadski and YVK made me do it.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsup9bhk6m.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsup9bhk6m.jpeg.html)
Taadski and YVK made me do it.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsup9bhk6m.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsup9bhk6m.jpeg.html)
Was that the one with the adjustable rear sight which broke?
45dotACP
07-21-2016, 04:52 AM
A delta point on a CZ.. god man you're just begging to be killed on the streets...
Can't wait to hear how it shoots
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
A delta point on a CZ.. god man you're just begging to be killed on the streets...
Can't wait to hear how it shoots
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Several range sessions with the CZ/DP Pro confirm I shoot the CZ with RDS as much better than the Glock MOS, as I do with the two platforms with iron sights.
Several range sessions with the CZ/DP Pro confirm I shoot the CZ with RDS as much better than the Glock MOS, as I do with the two platforms with iron sights.
I'm not terribly surprised by this, tuned CZs are incredibly easy to shoot well.
1) On another forum, someone did an analysis of the high hit factors at the recent Production and CO nationals. Since both events apparently used the same stages, it provided an opportunity to see how Production and Carry Optics stacked up on the same courses of fire, shot by mostly the same group of top shooters. Their numbers showed Carry Optics has a .92 percent higher hit factor, or just one percent difference. Hmmm, makes me wonder about the classifier high hit factors, because on many classifiers, CO can be as high or higher than Limited.
2) After my RMR going Tango Uniform in the rain, and experiencing rain for 29 of the last 31 days in Alaska (or something close to that number as I have been so disgusted I stopped keeping exact count because it was hurting my morale), it became clear that the RMR was not viable for me. I got an adapter plate for an Atom slide I had, and plopped a T1 on my slide. Will be interesting to see if it runs, since the last time I put a T1 on a 17, years ago, it wouldn't function reliably.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsye4yakyl.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsye4yakyl.jpeg.html)
1) On another forum, someone did an analysis of the high hit factors at the recent Production and CO nationals. Since both events apparently used the same stages, it provided an opportunity to see how Production and Carry Optics stacked up on the same courses of fire, shot by mostly the same group of top shooters. Their numbers showed Carry Optics has a .92 percent higher hit factor, or just one percent difference. Hmmm, makes me wonder about the classifier high hit factors, because on many classifiers, CO can be as high or higher than Limited.
2) After my RMR going Tango Uniform in the rain, and experiencing rain for 29 of the last 31 days in Alaska (or something close to that number as I have been so disgusted I stopped keeping exact count because it was hurting my morale), it became clear that the RMR was not viable for me. I got an adapter plate for an Atom slide I had, and plopped a T1 on my slide. Will be interesting to see if it runs, since the last time I put a T1 on a 17, years ago, it wouldn't function reliably.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsye4yakyl.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsye4yakyl.jpeg.html)
Solution (https://www.amazon.com/Energizer-Battery-CR2032-Lithium-Batteries/dp/B00OSO0JPK/ref=sr_1_19_s_it?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1472050760&sr=1-19&keywords=cr2032+battery): Use your DP Pro :)
Just came in from shooting 50 rounds of AE 124 ball through the T1 on a Gen 3 19 with the Atom slide. It was in the rain, of course, although my wife pointed out it was just designer or California (she was born the) rain. Enough to put drops on the face of the T1, which did not impair shooting.
No stoppages, extraction/ejection felt robust. Took me four rounds to get it zeroed. I like the way it shot and it shows promise for Timmie pursuits. Fits in my Fricke Gideon OWB and JM George and Universal AIWB holsters (Tony modified them for the MOS).
Sent from my iPad
StraitR
08-25-2016, 11:17 PM
Do you see any differences in performance between the T-1 and RMR/DP pro? Predominantly your initial impressions on slide speed and tracking since I believe those are what drives your preference of the 19 over 17 MOS.
Not a lot of people have ran all three red dot sights on the same pistol, so I'm interested to hear your comparisons. Thanks for the report.
Do you see any differences in performance between the T-1 and RMR/DP pro? Predominantly your initial impressions on slide speed and tracking since I believe those are what drives your preference of the 19 over 17 MOS.
Not a lot of people have ran all three red dot sights on the same pistol, so I'm interested to hear your comparisons. Thanks for the report.
DP Pro measurably faster than the RMR in gaming. I attribute it to a larger, taller and clearer display.
The T1 display seems narrower and taller than the RMR. Taller is a good thing for tracking the dot in recoil.
I didn't set out to specifically bench mark the T1 to the other two, because the T1 is the only one that I would rely on for carry. The DP Pro is limited by battery life, the inability to cowitness BUIS (or even have them usable not cowitness end), awkward intensity adjustment, and an open emitter (although better than the RMR in the rain). The RMR has a number of good features like auto intensity, good battery life, compatibility with BUIS, and intuitive up/down intensity. It's total failure in significant precip is an absolute deal breaker for me, after rain in 30 of the last 32 days.
Soon, as I get to lower 48 and start shooting USPSA again, my total focus will go to the CZ/DP Pro combo, and the T1 comparison will be flawed as it is on a Glock, and my shooting of it will be intermittent. With 2 34 MOS, 3 19 MOS, and 2 17 MOS, I am absolutely ertain that the 19 tracks the dot better enough to matter, compared to 34 or 17. The T1 is mainly a placeholder for the Aimpoint pistol optic at a TBD time in the future.
Do you see any differences in performance between the T-1 and RMR/DP pro? Predominantly your initial impressions on slide speed and tracking since I believe those are what drives your preference of the 19 over 17 MOS.
Not a lot of people have ran all three red dot sights on the same pistol, so I'm interested to hear your comparisons. Thanks for the report.
OK, just for you I dragged the G19/T1 out, and shot it after the CZ with the DP Pro.
Completely different feeling between the two optics. The DP is like looking through a big living room window, where the T1 is like shooting through a picture frame or port hole in a boat. For gaming, where you have a bay full of many targets, the DP Pro will allow you to transition quicker. However the T1 is very easy to shoot, seems to make me very accurate, and is a very pleasant experience. The big rheostat makes quick adjustments effortless. The timer showed enough difference to matter in USPSA, but not so much that it would seem a handicap for Timmie pursuits.
Display comparison, T1 and DP Pro:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpsxxozx4ys.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpsxxozx4ys.jpeg.html)
LOKNLOD
08-26-2016, 10:33 PM
I'm guessing that giant knob on the T1 doesn't conceal well, does it?
I'm guessing that giant knob on the T1 doesn't conceal well, does it?
Nope. Like I said above, the T1 is a placeholder for the TBD Aimpoint pistol optic. Hope the display is generous in size.
My wife shot the T1/Atom slide yesterday, extensively left and right hand only. She can smoke out a weak functioning Glock, on demand, shooting it one hand. Zero problems, and it threw the brass out like an HK. :)
I have spent a month or so shooting a pair of 34 MOS pistols, both with DP Pro optics. Wanted to give them a fair shake. Yesterday, I ended a 34 session, shooting two of the same drills with my 19 MOS, also with DP Pro. The drills consisted of two eight inch steel, one ten inch steel, and two USPSA cardboard targets, at 13-22 yards. One drill was draw and shoot one each target, reload, repeat. The other drill was one to each steel and two to each paper. Same ammo in both guns, 124 AE ball, and same holster/belt/pouches.
The 19 felt like I was cheating, and was +/- 15% faster with similar or better accuracy. Dot just felt like it wasn't moving as much with the 19.
I started with 25 yard groups with the 34 and ended with the same with the 19. Groups with the 19 were half the size of the 34, consistent with my past experience.
GJM, do you still believe that the 19 is the better option of the 19,17 & 34?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'll let him answer for himself although I think the answer will be affirmative. That said, GJM and I just recently saw a Limited GM smoke the stages at an accuracy-demanding match with a 34 MOS. I think the general answer is "YMMV".
GJM, do you still believe that the 19 is the better option of the 19,17 & 34?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not sure.
I sat next to the guy YVK references above, at dinner Saturday night. Believe he is a Limited GM, and not sure what his CO percentage is. I told him my impression was that the G19 keeps the dot flatter than the 17 or 34, all of which I have. He agreed. The interesting part is what he said when I asked him why the 34 for this match? He started by saying sight radius, then realized what he was saying and said the reason was because the 34 had a better barrel twist to stabilize the bullet for better accuracy at distance. I didn't follow-up on that, but assumed he went with a 34 because for many people the 34=best Glock for competition. MY wife, for example, just yesterday asked if I could put together my 34 MOS for her to mess with. One other thing from that guy -- he said he has had good battery life with his DP Pro on his 34. Makes me wonder whether I got a bad one or two early on, or whether Leupold made some changes along the way. I plan to run on on constant on and see how long the battery lasts.
Here is why I say I am not sure on 17/19/34. I definitely believe the 19 tracks better with the dot on drills like the Garcia dots. However, there are some advantages to the 17. The full grip is easier for me to get the magazine out and reloaded with, the full grip makes a better draw, and something I have only recently come to appreciate, is the 19 seems easier to deflect off target on longer shots. Inside 15 yards, Bill drills, for example, are fine with the 19, but at 20/25 yards and further, it seems easier to deflect shots with the 19. In a perfect world, Glock would also offer a 17 frame with a 19 slide, as their red dot gun, and provide the advantage of the 17 grip with the 19 flat cycling, slide.
In a perfect world, Glock would also offer a 17 frame with a 19 slide, as their red dot gun, and provide the advantage of the 17 grip with the 19 flat cycling, slide.
I think this would be the end all be all for RDS pistols for me if Glock where to ever make it. Had great hope when I saw a few posters on lightfighter attempt to diy it, but from what I remember it's not possible due to the location of the locking block in the 17 not allowing the 19 slide to cycle to the rear enough to even engage the slidestop, if someone can figure a way past that it seems otherwise doable.
I found a Gen 4 lower in the safe, stippled by Taran, with a very smooth trigger, with plenty of roll. Slapped it on my MOS 17 upper and hit the range with it. I warmed up with the PCC, which gets me in the mood to press the trigger fast.
Shot this six shot Bill drill at 25 yards in 3.62. Definitely a kodak moment, as I never remember that sort of a Bill before.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/IMG_5348_zpseazq6fla.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/IMG_5348_zpseazq6fla.jpg.html)
Then, this was my first attempt at a Garcia dot (7 yards, six shots from the holster) with the same pistol. I started admiring my work on shot 5 and ruined a perfect dot. In any event, six shots in 3.12 with the MOS 17.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/IMG_5349_zpsr4xqfkph.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/IMG_5349_zpsr4xqfkph.jpg.html)
Kind of gets me excited to shoot a CO match or two.
JSGlock34
02-16-2017, 08:40 PM
Interesting to see that the G19 MOS has apparently entered military use with SOCOM.
Interesting to see that the G19 MOS has apparently entered military use with SOCOM.
Any idea what brand optic (and what brand loctite)?
JSGlock34
02-16-2017, 09:04 PM
No idea on optic, or if any are being used at all. I had posted this earlier...
Has SOCOM now classified the GEN4 G19 MOS with threaded barrel as the Mk27?
http://nsn-now.com/1005016581930
STANDARD GENERATION IV G19 MK27 9MM PISTOL WITH MODULAR OPTICS SYSTEM INSTALLED ON THE WEAPON. STANDARD 5.5 POUND TRIGGER PULL, BARREL THREAD PATTERN M13.5X1LH, HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINE CAPABLE. INCLUDES: QTY OF 6, 15 ROUND MAGAZINES, MAGAZINE LOADER, CLEANING ROD, NYLON BORE BRUSH, AND PISTOL CASE*); H9D/SOCOM LOGISTICS HELP DESK: CML (859) 293-3114; DSN: 745-3114; TOLL FREE: 888-745-3114;
Dave Williams
02-16-2017, 10:37 PM
I'm curious what optic as well, guessing the DP Pro.
I am getting close to the 2,000 round mark with my G17 MOS. This is meant as the gamer gun complement to my EDC G19 w/RMR. The gun itself so far has functioned flawlessly and I have no doubt it will make the 2,000 round torture test. What I am not happy with is the Vortex Viper optic. Besides the fact that the dot won't stay zero'd without locking the locking screws, which to get at you have to take the slide off. Today I noticed another issue. When shooting in a very bright low in the sky sun this morning something happened that I haven't experienced before. The dot was still there, but the whole left hand side of my screen had a red lattice pattern on it. This was about 9 oclock in the morning and we were mainly facing East so the sun was low and off to my right front. I got out my carry 19 and the RMR showed no such image. By the time we left the range at 11 the sun had moved enough that it wasn't an issue anymore. So while I am happy with my 17 MOS, this Vortex MRDS is getting on my last nerve. It might be time to switch to the Leupold.
J.S. Kamp
02-18-2017, 02:10 PM
I've been running the DP pro for the last year. Ran the TJ stuff before.
Granted, I am a Leupold ambassador but got my DP pro before that. For me the glass is cleaner. Fits in same hooded holster as my TJ guns just a little tight around the top.
Now that price dropped down well below TJ RMR06 07 think hard to beat. Have not used the Vortex stuff yet but just not a fan.
I like the pickup of the dot in presentation. Battery life has been great on the 2.5. 8 months same battery EDC on my Glock 17. Finally getting a Suarez DP pro cut 19 slide so can switch over my 19.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
I've been running the DP pro for the last year. Ran the TJ stuff before.
Granted, I am a Leupold ambassador but got my DP pro before that. For me the glass is cleaner. Fits in same hooded holster as my TJ guns just a little tight around the top.
Now that price dropped down well below TJ RMR06 07 think hard to beat. Have not used the Vortex stuff yet but just not a fan.
I like the pickup of the dot in presentation. Battery life has been great on the 2.5. 8 months same battery EDC on my Glock 17. Finally getting a Suarez DP pro cut 19 slide so can switch over my 19.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Very interested in your battery experience. I am starting to wonder if I had early or defective units, with abysmal battery life. I plan to try the Pro on a carry 19, taking the precaution of a green laser as a secondary sighting system, since I don't have BUIS on my MOS 19.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/IMG_1594_zpsfgm89cct.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/IMG_1594_zpsfgm89cct.jpg.html)
J.S. Kamp
02-19-2017, 08:16 PM
Which Pro? 2.5 or Triangle? Also recommend if possible, get rid of the MLS slide and get a cut slide. I am using a standard suppressor height sight with mine. Isn't a perfect cowitness but will get the job done.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Which Pro? 2.5 or Triangle? Also recommend if possible, get rid of the MLS slide and get a cut slide. I am using a standard suppressor height sight with mine. Isn't a perfect cowitness but will get the job done.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
I have five DP Pro units, all the small dot, three of which have been replaced by Leupold for various issues. When I first started shooting CO last March, I was getting 6-8 days out of a battery, leaving the unit powered on.
I have a number of milled slides for the RMR, plus an Atom, but am using the MOS to test the Pro battery, and see whether Aimpoint drops the Nano at NRA.
J.S. Kamp
02-19-2017, 08:25 PM
That's crazy....I have two. 7.5 and the 2.5. No issues like that. My 7.5 is sitting in my safe on my Tavor. Will have to check that battery. I left it on when I put it away. Interested to see how long it lasts stored. I can't get into my safe without it turning on. I don't get in their everyday but have had that battery since before last April.
Are you using a quality battery?
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Info here:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?20009-Delta-Point-Pro-battery-life-sucks
I bought about 50 quality batteries on Amazon, and was changing them preemptively every week.
El Cid
02-19-2017, 08:40 PM
Very interested in your battery experience. I am starting to wonder if I had early or defective units, with abysmal battery life. I plan to try the Pro on a carry 19, taking the precaution of a green laser as a secondary sighting system, since I don't have BUIS on my MOS 19.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/IMG_1594_zpsfgm89cct.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/IMG_1594_zpsfgm89cct.jpg.html)
What ranges are y'all finding lasers (either color) to work during daylight? I've found that much beyond 15 yards they are damn near impossible to locate quickly if at all.
J.S. Kamp
02-19-2017, 09:08 PM
Info here:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?20009-Delta-Point-Pro-battery-life-sucks
I bought about 50 quality batteries on Amazon, and was changing them preemptively every week.
Question is reputable place on Amazon? I know sometimes crap shows up on Amazon masquerading as quality gear.
Or stuff that is old?
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Question is reputable place on Amazon? I know sometimes crap shows up on Amazon masquerading as quality gear.
Or stuff that is old?
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Current production Energizer, after burning through the batteries supplied by Leupold.
What ranges are y'all finding lasers (either color) to work during daylight? I've found that much beyond 15 yards they are damn near impossible to locate quickly if at all.
I was able to shoot a small group at 25 on USPSA cardboard with the CT green laser this afternoon on my MOS 19. The laser intensity was not ideal, in bright AZ sunshine, but usable as a secondary system.
El Cid
02-20-2017, 09:28 PM
I was able to shoot a small group at 25 on USPSA cardboard with the CT green laser this afternoon on my MOS 19. The laser intensity was not ideal, in bright AZ sunshine, but usable as a secondary system.
Thanks! I'll have to experiment with different color targets and maybe t-shirts on them.
Thanks! I'll have to experiment with different color targets and maybe t-shirts on them.
My plan is to take cover and wait until dusk, if I am stuck with just the laser mid-day.
FWIW, while the green laser is visible in daylight and can be used, it is best used indoors in any lighting, or in low-light. I find its biggest advantage is one handed shooting on the move, or when I need to shoot from awkward positions.
Also, I haven't compared different lasers enough side by side, but there seems to be a noticeable difference in brightness from brand to brand. A few weeks ago I tried an X400, TLR-2 HL G and a CT green laser on the same day and in the same conditions. The TLR 2 seemed brighter, but I would need to do more with all three before saying anything definitive.
I'm likely going to do some more extensive exploration in the next few weeks.
Also, slightly back on thread, I have been shooting a cut 17 slide with an RMR. As with the iron sighted guns, I prefer the 17 with an RMR to the 19. Ultimately, I think it is purely personal preference as to which size gun you might prefer. I can't really see a measurable difference as of now.
98z28
02-21-2017, 01:45 PM
I was able to shoot a small group at 25 on USPSA cardboard with the CT green laser this afternoon on my MOS 19. The laser intensity was not ideal, in bright AZ sunshine, but usable as a secondary system.
I'm just impressed that you can get work done with that laser on the gun. I tried the green lasergrip on a gen4 G19 a while back. The switch was placed such that I couldn't reliably activate it, especially weak hand only. The laser module was painfully abusive on my strong hand knuckle in recoil, and it pushed my hand so far down the grip that I was almost guaranteed to draw blood on reloads.
I realize that the laser is a bit of a necessity given what you are doing, but how are you liking it?
I'm just impressed that you can get work done with that laser on the gun. I tried the green lasergrip on a gen4 G19 a while back. The switch was placed such that I couldn't reliably activate it, especially weak hand only. The laser module was painfully abusive on my strong hand knuckle in recoil, and it pushed my hand so far down the grip that I was almost guaranteed to draw blood on reloads.
I realize that the laser is a bit of a necessity given what you are doing, but how are you liking it?
I feel about the laser, about like my survival float vest when flying in AK. I really don't enjoy it, but I like even less the idea of needing the laser or vest, and not having it. Since I have enough Glock pistols to support a month of Gadget production, now that this is sighted in, I don't need to shoot it that much.
98z28
02-21-2017, 06:16 PM
I feel about the laser, about like my survival float vest when flying in AK. I really don't enjoy it, but I like even less the idea of needing the laser or vest, and not having it. Since I have enough Glock pistols to support a month of Gadget production, now that this is sighted in, I don't need to shoot it that much.
Ha! Nice.
Since I have enough Glock pistols to support a month of Gadget production
LMAO and damn, I'm jealous!
So I have been running a 19MOS with RMR since fall and finally got around to swapping batteries. Not cause they were dead, but cause I do so at the beginning of every year for all optics. I replaced the RMR and had a significant zero shift. POI went about 1" down & 1" left @ 5 yds. Was getting pretty pissed at the onset of my session till I stopped and zeroed the thing again. Is this something normal? I'm not above considering the loose nut behind the trigger as just sucking today. Do you guys use a torque wrench when installing to get consistent seating? I used my mk1mod0 fingers during initial install and today. Though I was being good about cleaning the plate and underside of the optic.
Sigfan26
02-23-2017, 10:38 AM
So I have been running a 19MOS with RMR since fall and finally got around to swapping batteries. Not cause they were dead, but cause I do so at the beginning of every year for all optics. I replaced the RMR and had a significant zero shift. POI went about 1" down & 1" left @ 5 yds. Was getting pretty pissed at the onset of my session till I stopped and zeroed the thing again. Is this something normal? I'm not above considering the loose nut behind the trigger as just sucking today. Do you guys use a torque wrench when installing to get consistent seating? I used my mk1mod0 fingers during initial install and today. Though I was being good about cleaning the plate and underside of the optic.
I have never had that through, at least, 3 battery changes on my directly milled slides. I actually just got a replacement slide from my employer, and when I swapped the iron sights and optic to the new slide, the cowitness through the irons still hadn't changed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have never had that through, at least, 3 battery changes on my directly milled slides. I actually just got a replacement slide from my employer, and when I swapped the iron sights and optic to the new slide, the cowitness through the irons still hadn't changed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks. Will have to recheck everything this weekend. Operator head gap in sure.
Norville
02-23-2017, 12:42 PM
I had a flickering issue on my G17 / RM07 so I removed and replaced it several times. About 50% of the time it was perfectly rezeroed, the rest of the time it was off quite a bit. I think it is due to inconsistent torque, but the tiny screws should be just snug enough to let the blue Loctite do the work so it is hard to be consistent.
I decided to just leave my latest DP Pro, which is mounted on a 17 MOS "on" and see how long the battery lasted. It was a new Pro, that I took out of the box and mounted a week or two ago, using the battery supplied with it by Leupold. At a match today, between stage two and three, I looked down and the dot had turned off. Turned it on, shot the stage, and shortly thereafter, looked down and the dot was out again. It seems to be either a battery or electronics problem, so I changed batteries, and noted no problems for the rest of the match.
I recently received some Taran 140mm extensions, and have been using them without issue. I like that they go on OEM magazines. They hold 23 cartridges. My wife and I have been having enough problems with the Magpul 140mm 21 round magazines, with our Berry's 124 reloads, that we don't trust them.
Today was the first non PCC USPSA match I have shot in a while, and I had a great time running the MOS 17. Here are a few stages.
https://youtu.be/4NciyCtgWYc
https://youtu.be/Dp-3dZGSQ3U
In practice, I have been spending my time working the gray, and here is an example of just a tiny bit towards off the rails.
https://youtu.be/vNVuAIH2ekU
I've been running the DP pro for the last year. Ran the TJ stuff before.
Granted, I am a Leupold ambassador but got my DP pro before that. For me the glass is cleaner. Fits in same hooded holster as my TJ guns just a little tight around the top.
Now that price dropped down well below TJ RMR06 07 think hard to beat. Have not used the Vortex stuff yet but just not a fan.
I like the pickup of the dot in presentation. Battery life has been great on the 2.5. 8 months same battery EDC on my Glock 17. Finally getting a Suarez DP pro cut 19 slide so can switch over my 19.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
I am hoping for some info from Leupold. On February 18, 2017, after reading this post, I decided to leave my two MOS 17 and one MOS 34 with DP Pro optics on, and see when the batteries ran out. These were guns used for gaming and gaming practice. In theory, the dot is off most of the time, due to the motion sensor.
On Saturday, one MOS 17 battery died. Today, the battery in the MOS 34 DP Pro died. I am either the unluckiest guy in the world, or Leupold has a major battery life problem with the DP Pro.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.