Latest thoughts on the M&P

[rauchman]

Greetings,

I pulled out my M&P40 (converted to 9mm) the other night and did some dry fire routines. I normally am a G19 fan and have dalliances with other pistols I own (Beretta Vertec & 92, Sig 320, other Glocks, etc.) Have to say, I forgot how good the M&P feels in the hand, the sights come right up and the front the sight is very easily found for me and I had done a really nice trigger job with an Apex sear. Granted the pistol I have is a .40 with a 9mm barrel in it and I never expected it to have great accuracy. In .40 it does well, but accuracy with the 9mm barrel is....meh. When dressed as a .40, it handles better than any .40 Glock I've ever had experience with, or any other polymer .40 I've shot (I've read great things about the P30 and VP40, but have no experience with them). I've considered selling it since I hardly ever shoot the thing anymore, but ( I know this is going to sound retarded) I have a bunch of 15rnd 9mm mags in addition to a slew of .40 mags. Those 15rnd 9mm mags are not easy to find and they have become a bit expensive to replace. As an NJ'er, these are like gold to me.

I remember when these pistols came out, there was much buzz about them. Then slowly, reports of less than stellar news started surfacing. Shoddy finishes with rust showing, strikers breaking, trigger assemblies having issues and................accuracy issues in the full size 9mm. From my understanding, S&W has addressed just about all the issues with the gun, but I'm not sure if the accuracy problem has been resolved.

If you're not familiar with the process to buy a pistol in NJ, it is a PITA. Having said that, I plan on selling off some of my inventory and replacing with other options. After farting around with the M&P again, I'm contemplating a newer 9mm fullsize variant. Ultimately my question is this, would you feel confident in the purchase of an M&P 9mm fullsize in relation to very good accuracy expectations (2"-2.5" 5 round groups at 25 yards) and reliability / durability, or am I wasting my time? No CCW in NJ. Purpose of the pistol would be HD, range, competition.

[LSP972]

I would not feel confident. Like you said, for a while there it seemed like every time I turned around, there was another issue with those pistols.

OTOH, again as you stated, the pistol and mags you have are vetted, and pretty much irreplaceable in the Occupied Territories... so you should certainly keep them. And it shoots MOT (minute of thug), yes? Good enough for HD. Keep it for the sacrificial lamb should you be forced to let the air out of a home invader and give your piece up to the gendarmie.

As for scratching the new-gun-itis itch... can't help you there, pal. I'm several grand poorer as a result of ME scratching it lately, so you're on your own!;)

.

[MK11]

I'm behind enemy lines as well and the investment in mags that can't be replaced (and the fact that I seem to have gotten a good one) have me sticking with the M&P 9.

For people in our situation, rolling the dice on a new M&P makes more sense than for someone with other high cap options, particularly since the Apex barrel seems to be living up to the hype. Aside from rumors about the Texas DPS fiasco, reliability and durability don't seem to be issues with the M&P.

[ffhounddog]

I would keep it and/or maybe buy a M&Pc that can take the mags. In 9mm the compact does not seem to hsve the same issues.

[ubervic]

I ran MP9FS for three years and liked it quite a bit. Moved away from it mainly because I was interested in learning the TDA trigger and got a Sig for a great price....but also because I had come to believe that in carrying SFA AIWB I was subjecting myself to a higher than acceptable risk relative to a hammer-fired piece.

I loved the M&P's pointability, simple and easy-to-operate controls; and I've never been smoother or faster with mag changes. It even carries small in my opinion.

I'd suggest that if you dig everything about the M&P but question its accuracy, buy a new one anyway, shoot it on a rest, and then, worst-case scenario, spring for the new Apex drop-in barrel. Sure, that's more money, but it renders the accuracy concern a fairly moot point for someone who otherwise loves the format.

[LorenzoS]

I was in the same position as you and decided no, it's not worth the trouble when there are plenty of great options from Glock, HK, Sig etc. I don't have that much free time in my life and didn't want to play the accuracy roulette game that would eat up time sending the thing back to S&W, getting replacement barrels, or finding just the right type of ammo this unit happens to like. And having once been a NJ subject I appreciate the extra level of hassle you'd have to deal with to get a replacement if needed.

I sold my M&P, replaced it with a couple of pistols from another manufacturer and would make the same decision again. If your current pistol is working OK I wouldn't necessarily sell it, but I would definitely not add additional investment into that platform.

[60167]

I've had three full sized M&P 40's.

One pistol got a full apex and stipple package. That thing was dead nuts accurate at 25 yards. I can't recall any non-ammo related malfunctions. That gun rusted like crazy and got sold.

The second (duty) pistol was shot for two years and probably 13,000 rounds. It's the gun I learned how to fight with. I shot it pretty well and had no rust issues. Very few malfunctions that I recall. Most malfunctions were probably shooter or ammo related. One day the department made me turn it in and switch to a newer production model that had all of the improvements. I was given the opportunity to buy the old gun from the dept but stupidly didn't.

The third (duty) pistol is what I'm currently carrying. It has the all the improvements of the new production model. The finish is different, the sear was changed to mimic the angle of a Performance Center sear, the slide release lever is updated. That gun is plenty accurate at 25 yards, no rust issues yet. Only problem is, I can't go 100 rounds without a malfunction. This is my third M&P, I'm more than reasonably certain the malfunctions are not shooter induced. I've experienced failures to eject, extract, fire, the whole lot. Not all of my magazines drop free. I'm not impressed with this gun at all. My dept armorer has inspected the gun, blames the ammo.


I really want to like the M&P platform. I think they look cool and have the aftermarket potential for a really great trigger. Smith just needs to improve their quality control to ensure every gun they turn out is as good as it could be. If I could buy a pair of M&P 9's that ran like my first duty gun, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[Jeep]

My view is that (1) it doesn't hurt to have a .40 cal. in a collection (the ammo doesn't cost that much more than 9 mm for occasional use and the .40 does some things a bit better than the 9); (2) the M&P40 handles the cartridge very well; and (3) your own M&P40 works well.

Keep the .40, shoot with a 9mm barrel for fun, and buy a different pistol if you want an accurate 9 mm.

[11B10]

Greetings,

I pulled out my M&P40 (converted to 9mm) the other night and did some dry fire routines. I normally am a G19 fan and have dalliances with other pistols I own (Beretta Vertec & 92, Sig 320, other Glocks, etc.) Have to say, I forgot how good the M&P feels in the hand, the sights come right up and the front the sight is very easily found for me and I had done a really nice trigger job with an Apex sear. Granted the pistol I have is a .40 with a 9mm barrel in it and I never expected it to have great accuracy. In .40 it does well, but accuracy with the 9mm barrel is....meh. When dressed as a .40, it handles better than any .40 Glock I've ever had experience with, or any other polymer .40 I've shot (I've read great things about the P30 and VP40, but have no experience with them). I've considered selling it since I hardly ever shoot the thing anymore, but ( I know this is going to sound retarded) I have a bunch of 15rnd 9mm mags in addition to a slew of .40 mags. Those 15rnd 9mm mags are not easy to find and they have become a bit expensive to replace. As an NJ'er, these are like gold to me.

I remember when these pistols came out, there was much buzz about them. Then slowly, reports of less than stellar news started surfacing. Shoddy finishes with rust showing, strikers breaking, trigger assemblies having issues and................accuracy issues in the full size 9mm. From my understanding, S&W has addressed just about all the issues with the gun, but I'm not sure if the accuracy problem has been resolved.

If you're not familiar with the process to buy a pistol in NJ, it is a PITA. Having said that, I plan on selling off some of my inventory and replacing with other options. After farting around with the M&P again, I'm contemplating a newer 9mm fullsize variant. Ultimately my question is this, would you feel confident in the purchase of an M&P 9mm fullsize in relation to very good accuracy expectations (2"-2.5" 5 round groups at 25 yards) and reliability / durability, or am I wasting my time? No CCW in NJ. Purpose of the pistol would be HD, range, competition.



I know this is way off thread, but as a Pa. resident who spent his summers on the Jersey shoreline - I gotta ask: How/what/where/when do you carry? I mean, holy shit - it seems the next thing will be that you will soon need a background check to clean your guns in NJ!

[rauchman]

Very much appreciate everyone's replies. Lots of good info here. I think my desire for a new M&P has been tempered by the reality/PITA factor of the NJ pistol purchasing process and the probability of the M&P not meeting my expectations. Again, thanks for everyone's input.

11B10 - CCW is all but nonexistent in NJ. In 46 years of living in this state, I've met a total of 1 person who had a vaild CCW. I've heard it said, but have no idea if true, that no CCW's have been issued in NJ since 9/11. I know people that do carry in NJ w/out the CCW with a f*** the law attitude. If caught, the ramifications are VERY severe.

[RJ]

My Nov '13-bought M&P FS9 is in the safe at home. I brought my VP9 and Walther PPS M2 with me on our trip.

I left the Apex D/CAEK in it, and the 10 8 FO front sight. I cleaned it and dry fired it a few times 4 or 5 months ago. With maybe 4,000 rounds, it is pretty smooth.

For me, it was a good solid choice for a starter gun. It has been very reliable, but I got sucked into the 'my groups stink and it is the gun' hype, so I bought the VP9. I'm a better shot now (not hugely, but better) and sometimes I think about shooting it at 25 yds, to see how I'd do.

[11B10]

Thanks for the quick answer. It literally breaks my heart that "Joisy" is the way it is today. I had heard things like the ones you just quoted and hoped it was fiction. I just will not go somewhere that bans me from legally protecting me and mine. Massad Ayoob said several years ago: "No one should allow a bad law to make them a felon" - and - "if laws prevent you from carrying legally - it's a quality of life issue - it IS this simple: MOVE!" I'm sure you would agree that it rarely is THAT easy, right? I feel for you, brother - be careful out there.

[HCM]

Greetings,

I pulled out my M&P40 (converted to 9mm) the other night and did some dry fire routines. I normally am a G19 fan and have dalliances with other pistols I own (Beretta Vertec & 92, Sig 320, other Glocks, etc.) Have to say, I forgot how good the M&P feels in the hand, the sights come right up and the front the sight is very easily found for me and I had done a really nice trigger job with an Apex sear. Granted the pistol I have is a .40 with a 9mm barrel in it and I never expected it to have great accuracy. In .40 it does well, but accuracy with the 9mm barrel is....meh. When dressed as a .40, it handles better than any .40 Glock I've ever had experience with, or any other polymer .40 I've shot (I've read great things about the P30 and VP40, but have no experience with them). I've considered selling it since I hardly ever shoot the thing anymore, but ( I know this is going to sound retarded) I have a bunch of 15rnd 9mm mags in addition to a slew of .40 mags. Those 15rnd 9mm mags are not easy to find and they have become a bit expensive to replace. As an NJ'er, these are like gold to me.

I remember when these pistols came out, there was much buzz about them. Then slowly, reports of less than stellar news started surfacing. Shoddy finishes with rust showing, strikers breaking, trigger assemblies having issues and................accuracy issues in the full size 9mm. From my understanding, S&W has addressed just about all the issues with the gun, but I'm not sure if the accuracy problem has been resolved.

If you're not familiar with the process to buy a pistol in NJ, it is a PITA. Having said that, I plan on selling off some of my inventory and replacing with other options. After farting around with the M&P again, I'm contemplating a newer 9mm fullsize variant. Ultimately my question is this, would you feel confident in the purchase of an M&P 9mm fullsize in relation to very good accuracy expectations (2"-2.5" 5 round groups at 25 yards) and reliability / durability, or am I wasting my time? No CCW in NJ. Purpose of the pistol would be HD, range, competition.

My understanding is the PITA level of obtaining handgun purchase permits in NJ varies from Township to Township and with how connected you are in local politics.

I would definitely keep your current M&P and 15 rd 9mm mags. I would look into purchasing an additional 9mm slide assembly (not a firearm so no purchase permit needed) from S&W or a used one of Gun Broker etc. If its shoots well, great, if not - Apex barrel.

I have a 2015 production 9mm FS - its is about as accurate as my Glocks, 3-4" off hand at 25. YMMV

[flyrodr]

I've had several M&Ps, because, to me, they point similar to a 1911, which is a long time favorite. The M&P .45 was very accurate (I eventually sold it, simply because of the size and cost of .45 ammo). An early FS 9mm was good enough, but not great (compared to an accurized 1911 or target .22). A late model 9mm compact with an RMR has proven very accurate. And a 9mm CORE with RMR was almost as accurate. All have the D/CAEK kits. Reliability-wise, they've been very good. The early 9mm had the right hand side slide locking tab break, which S&W quickly replaced. The same gun had the "dead trigger", again fixed quickly. Smith fixed all those issues years ago (at least mine haven't missed a beat).

I recently got a VP9. Out of the box, mine is very accurate and the stock trigger is fine. It's a bit fatter feeling than the M&P, and for carry, I like the M&P compact better. But the VP9 is a fine pistol.

They're all tools, and you certainly want the one that works best for you. I'm happy with my M&Ps, with minimal post-purchase enhancements (the RMRs were added because of my senior-citizen-nearsighted eyes, and help tremendously). The stock irons are as good as any (or maybe not - - - all those front sights are pretty fuzzy to me). If you like the M&P, I'd stick with it. But there are certainly plenty of options if you're not comfortable with getting an accurate one.

[LockedBreech]

I'm still not confident in a 9mm M&P, but I keep a 2010-vintage Detroit police trade M&P40 with HSTs and an extra magazine in my desk at work and that thing is rock flippin' steady. Zero doubt in it.

Edit: Despite my lack of confidence I can get near-LE pricing on an M&P 9C (about $380 with contrast sites, about $450 with the Glock night sights) and I sorely need a mid-size carry option for when I can dress a bit heavier than the PPS allows, so it's still pretty tempting.

[LtDave]

I have a .45, a .40/.357 and a 9mm M&P. They're all safe queens at this point. I just don't have much confidence in the platform anymore.

[JohnO]

Very much appreciate everyone's replies. Lots of good info here. I think my desire for a new M&P has been tempered by the reality/PITA factor of the NJ pistol purchasing process and the probability of the M&P not meeting my expectations. Again, thanks for everyone's input.

11B10 - CCW is all but nonexistent in NJ. In 46 years of living in this state, I've met a total of 1 person who had a vaild CCW. I've heard it said, but have no idea if true, that no CCW's have been issued in NJ since 9/11. I know people that do carry in NJ w/out the CCW with a f*** the law attitude. If caught, the ramifications are VERY severe.

I have a buddy in NJ with two M&Ps one in 9mm and the other in .45. The .45 shoots like a laser. The 9mm does now too since he fitted an Apex barrel. Another friend sent his 9mm M&P back to S&W and the barrel was replaced. That pistol is much better now too. Judging by what I have seen others go through I would not want one unless I was guaranteed I could get my money back if it didn't shoot straight out of the box.

[ranger]

I like the M&P. In NW GA, I see lots of M&Ps in 9mm (mostly 5 inch) and they are very reliable and seem to shoot well. I have seen many rounds fired through M&Ps and I do not see any reliability issues with them. I am sure many of the shooters on this forum may be skilled enough to be concerned about the accuracy but I suspect that most pistol shooters will not see the accuracy issue. I carry a M&P FS9 with an APEX duty kit and upgraded sights and I compete with a M&P PRO 5inch 9mm with APEX trigger upgrade in IDPA ESP.

[Tamara]

I hardly ever shoot the thing anymore, but ( I know this is going to sound retarded) I have a bunch of 15rnd 9mm mags in addition to a slew of .40 mags. Those 15rnd 9mm mags are not easy to find and they have become a bit expensive to replace. As an NJ'er, these are like gold to me.

My former employer, Indy Arms Company in Indianapolis, has five or six of the things that they ordered by accident and can't sell. They'll probably sell them to you for cost + shipping.

[HCM]

S&W 9mm complete slide assembly w/ night sights - new at. Midway.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/694188/smith-and-wesson-slide-assembly-with-night-sights-s-and-w-m-and-p-9mm-luger

[rauchman]

Thanks for the quick answer. It literally breaks my heart that "Joisy" is the way it is today. I had heard things like the ones you just quoted and hoped it was fiction. I just will not go somewhere that bans me from legally protecting me and mine. Massad Ayoob said several years ago: "No one should allow a bad law to make them a felon" - and - "if laws prevent you from carrying legally - it's a quality of life issue - it IS this simple: MOVE!" I'm sure you would agree that it rarely is THAT easy, right? I feel for you, brother - be careful out there.

I understand that technically, the way the law is written, guns are illegal in NJ. Having the NJ FID card is an exemption to that law. I just don't understand how that is constitutional.

My wife's parents are in their late 80's. For lack of a better way to say this, when they pass, we're probably moving to AZ, where much of my mother's family has moved to.

[rauchman]

My former employer, Indy Arms Company in Indianapolis, has five or six of the things that they ordered by accident and can't sell. They'll probably sell them to you for cost + shipping.

Really? That is some interesting news. Yes, I'd be very interested in buying those if possible. Thank you!


S&W 9mm complete slide assembly w/ night sights - new at. Midway.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/694188/smith-and-wesson-slide-assembly-with-night-sights-s-and-w-m-and-p-9mm-luger

Thanks for the heads up on this. This may be a good way to go to scratch my itch w/out waiting 3 months to process permits. Thank you!

[agksimon]

Greetings,
I'm contemplating a newer 9mm fullsize variant. Ultimately my question is this, would you feel confident in the purchase of an M&P 9mm fullsize in relation to very good accuracy expectations (2"-2.5" 5 round groups at 25 yards) and reliability / durability, or am I wasting my time? No CCW in NJ. Purpose of the pistol would be HD, range, competition.

If you're getting 25 yard, 2 inch groups, your M&P is the exception, rather than the rule. The M&P 9's that I have benchrested couldn't get under 4-5 inches, no matter what ammo I tried, my brand new 5 inch Pro 9 included. I had to install an Apex barrel in it to get good accuracy, which is now 1-2 inches. I shot a friends Walther PPQ and got 2 inches or better, right out of the box.
Same with the Shield vs the Walther PPS M2. Shield got 6 inches, Walther PPS M2 got 3 inches. I gave my wife my Shield and bought the Walther. If I didn't have so much money into my 5 inch Pro, I'd sell it and buy a PPQ.

[rauchman]

If you're getting 25 yard, 2 inch groups, your M&P is the exception, rather than the rule. The M&P 9's that I have benchrested couldn't get under 4-5 inches, no matter what ammo I tried, my brand new 5 inch Pro 9 included. I had to install an Apex barrel in it to get good accuracy, which is now 1-2 inches. I shot a friends Walther PPQ and got 2 inches or better, right out of the box.
Same with the Shield vs the Walther PPS M2. Shield got 6 inches, Walther PPS M2 got 3 inches. I gave my wife my Shield and bought the Walther. If I didn't have so much money into my 5 inch Pro, I'd sell it and buy a PPQ.

Ahhh, but that's just it. I'm not getting 2"-2.5" groups at 25 yards. With a Beretta 92, Sig 226, Sig P320, PPQ, and others,...sure, but not the M&P.

[Greg]

Seems like the M&P might be better in the FO'tay than the 9mm. I've been tempted by some of the police trade in 40s found online.

FWIW I had a 2010 full sized 9mm M&P that shot 5-7" groups at 25 yards with good ammo. I parted with it. I just don't have an interest in gunsmithing a polymer pistol.

The M&P does have some nice characteristics. Wish S&W would get those pistols squared away.

[MGW]

My 5" Pro in 9mm will shoot 4-5" groups at 25yds off hand if I do my part. It was built mid 2015. Very low round count so far so I will have to wait and see if it holds up over time. Unless the P226 that has been calling my name sneak attacks my pocket book.