LL's "Almost Guaranteed to Work fixes for Gen4 Glock 9mm issues"

[LittleLebowski]

Not guaranteed to work.

Caveat emptor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor)

Unload your weapon three times and then go to another room that doesn't have ammo in it before starting. I'm not liable for stuff you break nor if your Glock isn't 1000% reliable afterwards and therefore you die on the streets.


Install a 30274 ejector $7 (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/225860/glock-trigger-housing-with-ejector-glock-9mm-generation-4), even if your 9mm Glock isn't a Gen4.
Install a White Sound H.R.E.D $15 (http://www.atlantictactical.com/product/wsd-hred-plunger-assbly-for-glock/white_sound_defense#.VvAiWcdW6-I)
Polish the top and bottom horizontal surfaces of the extractor with something light like say toothpaste and this Dremel wheel (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015PK3BC8/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B015PK3BC8&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=LRSQPKP4LSLRBQHS). You want the extractor to slide in out and smoothly, like using cornstarch in a Zentai suit. Just a light polish.
Get the latest RSA (recoil spring assembly) by calling Glock's customer service (https://us.glock.com/customer-service/recoil-spring-exchange) or ordering online (http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/recoil-parts/recoil-springs/recoil-spring-assembly-gen-4-prod41449.aspx)
Test fire. The best way to see if you've fixed the problem is to use weaker range ammo, not high powered NATO or carry ammo
If you still have the problem, grab an APEX extractor (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/738412/apex-tactical-failure-resistant-extractor-glock-gen4-stainless-steel-black) and install per the instructions. I recommend just ordering and installing this, the HRED, and the ejector (if you don't have it) along with checking with Glock to make sure you have the latest and greatest RSA (recoil spring adapter) in order to save yourself time.


These steps have worked for me and others I know. My Gen4 G17 gobbled up Wolf, Tula, Blazer, carry ammo, and WWB with aplomb and good ejection last weekend in the rain and sleet at the GreenOps Defensive Pistol I class (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19448-Defensive-Pistol-I-Class-Culpeper).

[Irelander]

Nice. Thanks for this. It's nice to have all this info in one place.

[HCM]

My 2012 Gen 4 17 ran great till I hit 7k rounds, at which point it started BTF and FTE. It already had the 30274 ejector. I actually followed step 4, followed by 2 and 3. This seems to have fixed my issue for now, gun is 100% with duty ammo? Still has occasional BTF with weaker 115 FMJ range ammo,

[Patrin]

Thanks for posting this, LL. It's no secret that I'm into VP9's now, but in the near future may be employed with an agency requiring I change to the Glock. If I have trouble, your advice is what I will follow.

[oldtexan]

My 2012 Gen 4 17 ran great till I hit 7k rounds, at which point it started BTF and FTE. It already had the 30274 ejector. I actually followed step 4, followed by 2 and 3. This seems to have fixed my issue for now, gun is 100% with duty ammo? Still has occasional BTF with weaker 115 FMJ range ammo,

HCM, Was the original recoil spring assembly still in the gun when it started giving you BTFs and FTEs?

[David S.]

David's "Pretty Much Guaranteed to Work Fixes for Gen 4 Glock 9mm Issues"

1. Sell Glock.
2. Buy VP9, P320 or . . . .


;)

Srsly, Good sticky thread. Just havin' fun cuz someone was going to say it eventually, figured I'd be the first "that guy."

[voodoo_man]

If all that fails...
http://www.vdmsr.com/2016/02/gen4-g19-issue-update.html

[HCM]

HCM, Was the original recoil spring assembly still in the gun when it started giving you BTFs and FTEs?

Yes. That was the first thing I changed but the BTF and FTE continued. I believer 7500 rounds is the factory recommended life for the 9mm RSA.

[NETim]

Crap. And to think a G17 came home with me today.

Oh well. :)

[JV_]

Crap. And to think a G17 came home with me today.

You never know. I have an original Gen4 17, the ones without the recess cutout for the recoil spring (in the slide). It runs great.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/GlockRecoilSprings-1.jpg

[Appalachained]

You never know. I have an original Gen4 17, the ones without the recess cutout for the recoil spring (in the slide). It runs great.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/GlockRecoilSprings-1.jpg

I have one of those too. It was one of the First ones to hit town back in 2011. 6800 rounds so far without issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[StraitR]

Best. title. ever.

[NETim]

You never know. I have an original Gen4 17, the ones without the recess cutout for the recoil spring (in the slide). It runs great.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/GlockRecoilSprings-1.jpg

Mine has the recess. Fairly recent Austrian gun. SN BAZXXXX

[guymontag]

Tangential question - has anyone fixed BTF or erratic ejection in an earlier generation gun? If so, could you please detail the process if it differs from the OP? Thanks!

[LittleLebowski]

You never know. I have an original Gen4 17, the ones without the recess cutout for the recoil spring (in the slide). It runs great.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/GlockRecoilSprings-1.jpg

I had one, it ran very poorly (http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2011/10/glock-were-pretty-good-choice.html). My newer ones have been better.

[HCM]

You never know. I have an original Gen4 17, the ones without the recess cutout for the recoil spring (in the slide). It runs great.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/GlockRecoilSprings-1.jpg

Mine is late 2011 production - I got it in January 2012. It has the cut out out in the slide nose for the recoil spring.

[Sero Sed Serio]

Tangential question - has anyone fixed BTF or erratic ejection in an earlier generation gun? If so, could you please detail the process if it differs from the OP? Thanks!

LL's advice is solid, but one other thing to add:

JHC noticed more consistent ejection in guns with KKM drop-in barrels (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16613-2015-Glock-19-GEN-4-Handguns-still-unreliable-have-design-flaws/page35). I took this information and immediately used it as a justification to buy a shiny silver KKM barrel of my own, and lo and behold, more consistent ejection.

Both of us were shooting Gen. 4s, but I'm assuming that you would see similar results in a previous generation. A side benefit would probably be increased mechanical accuracy, as my understanding is that the older guns tend to be less mechanically accurate than the Gen. 4s, and as a result tend to show a more noticeable improvement with an aftermarket barrel. Not sure if that is worth $165 to you, but it might help.

Depending on how old of a gun you have, I believe the Apex extractors will work in any gun with a 15 degree cut (as opposed to the really old 90 degree cuts, although I believe the factory can cut a 90 degree slide to 15 degrees if you send your slide in. I've never heard of someone trying to put an Apex extractor in a Gen. 2 gun (usually everyone is talking about making their Gen. 4s run like Gen. 2s...), but I would call Apex to see if there would be any issues.

[LittleLebowski]

Tangential question - has anyone fixed BTF or erratic ejection in an earlier generation gun? If so, could you please detail the process if it differs from the OP? Thanks!

After a long and shitty "break-in," the early Gen4 G17 I had started running well after dropping in an H.R.E.D and polishing the extractor. It was sold shortly thereafter with full disclosure.

[JV_]

LL - Your solution is too complicated. Apparently, if you'd just leave the gun stock, and stop reading PF, your Glock will start working....

[11B10]

Not guaranteed to work.

Caveat emptor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor)

Unload your weapon three times and then go to another room that doesn't have ammo in it before starting. I'm not liable for stuff you break nor if your Glock isn't 1000% reliable afterwards and therefore you die on the streets.




Install a 30274 ejector $7 (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/225860/glock-trigger-housing-with-ejector-glock-9mm-generation-4), even if your 9mm Glock isn't a Gen4.
Install a White Sound H.R.E.D $15 (http://www.atlantictactical.com/product/wsd-hred-plunger-assbly-for-glock/white_sound_defense#.VvAiWcdW6-I)
Polish the top and bottom horizontal surfaces of the extractor with something light like say toothpaste and this Dremel wheel (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015PK3BC8/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B015PK3BC8&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=LRSQPKP4LSLRBQHS). You want the extractor to slide in out and smoothly, like using cornstarch in a Zentai suit. Just a light polish.
Get the latest RSA (recoil spring assembly) by calling Glock's customer service (https://us.glock.com/customer-service/recoil-spring-exchange) or ordering online (http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/recoil-parts/recoil-springs/recoil-spring-assembly-gen-4-prod41449.aspx)
Test fire. The best way to see if you've fixed the problem is to use weaker range ammo, not high powered NATO or carry ammo
If you still have the problem, grab an APEX extractor (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/738412/apex-tactical-failure-resistant-extractor-glock-gen4-stainless-steel-black) and install per the instructions. I recommend just ordering and installing this, the HRED, and the ejector (if you don't have it) along with checking with Glock to make sure you have the latest and greatest RSA (recoil spring adapter) in order to save yourself time.


These steps have worked for me and others I know. My Gen4 G17 gobbled up Wolf, Tula, Blazer, carry ammo, and WWB with aplomb and good ejection last weekend in the rain and sleet at the GreenOps Defensive Pistol I class (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19448-Defensive-Pistol-I-Class-Culpeper).



What do you guys think of using emery cloth to polish the innards? I am extremely new - and very cautious as a result, to use my Dremel, for fear of removing too much. I did my first Glock (30S) with emery cloth - gave it to a very experienced shooter, who then after dry firing it, asked me who did the trigger job.

[LittleLebowski]

What do you guys think of using emery cloth to polish the innards? I am extremely new - and very cautious as a result, to use my Dremel, for fear of removing too much. I did my first Glock (30S) with emery cloth - gave it to a very experienced shooter, who then after dry firing it, asked me who did the trigger job.

I think that what I recommended is extremely hard to take away too much material with. Alternatively to toothpaste, you can use automotive chrome polish (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009H519Y) but toothpaste on nylon bristles (as I recommended) is extremely light duty polishing.

[gorgo331]

The emperor is starting to look a little under-dressed to me.

[BobLoblaw]

LCI bearing / Non-LCI bearing?

[OnionsAndDragons]

What do you guys think of using emery cloth to polish the innards? I am extremely new - and very cautious as a result, to use my Dremel, for fear of removing too much. I did my first Glock (30S) with emery cloth - gave it to a very experienced shooter, who then after dry firing it, asked me who did the trigger job.

Emery cloth is fine.

Honestly, if you were that worried about it, I'd buy some Mothers or similar chrome polish and just polish it by hand with a nice cotton cloth.

As LL stated; it's pretty hard to impossible to remove any real material using toothpaste and a Dremel. It's also hard to remove any real material using the chrome polish and Dremel wheel, but it is possible.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JV_]

I don't understand a willingness to polish parts but also having an aversion to aftermarket parts.

If you're going to modify the gun from a bone stock configuration, I don't see the polishing and replacement being all that different.

[Nephrology]

I have a question - is a failure to extract characteristic of these G4G19 issues? Not a stovepipe, but like this:

http://i.imgur.com/opE7Uox.jpg

Had 1 of those in the first 520 rounds through my brand new, new production G4G19. The round looked a little funky (Magtech 115gr, stupidly didn't take a picture), but I now wondering if I should put in an order for the HRED just in case. Ejection with the gun was typical glock mushy with some BTF with Wolf, but that's something that I get regularly even with older Gen 3 guns. The Magtech 115gr all ejected consistently to my 3-4 o'clock.

[Nephrology]

I have a question - is a failure to extract characteristic of these G4G19 issues? Not a stovepipe, but like this:

http://i.imgur.com/opE7Uox.jpg

Had 1 of those in the first 520 rounds through my brand new, new production G4G19. The round looked a little funky (Magtech 115gr, stupidly didn't take a picture), but I now wondering if I should put in an order for the HRED just in case. Ejection with the gun was typical glock mushy with some BTF with Wolf, but that's something that I get regularly even with older Gen 3 guns. The Magtech 115gr all ejected consistently to my 3-4 o'clock.

Oops, well, I just disassembled the slide and found that the EDP Spring wasn't fully seated on the EDP bar. Pushed it back into place and tested extractor tension with a spent case. Much firmer than it was before. Hoping that was the issue!

[Greg]

Agreed, best thread title EVER :cool:

[Little Creek]

My first Glock was a G17 Gen4 that I still have. It is early production bought as soon as I found one in a LGS. It would FTE about once every box of ammo. Getting the right RSA did not fix it. Then along came the new improved ejector. The gun has now run many thousands of rounds without a malfunction. I buy and run over 5,000 rounds of WWB through it a year. What year did the Gen 4 come out? I have also run a couple of thousand factory loaded JHP loads through it as well. Also, I hardly ever clean or lube it. I do not recommend running a dirty or dry pistol. I have a couple of G19 Gen 4 pistols that have yet to malfunction. There must be a reason that almost 2/3 of the LEO in the US carry Glocks. A G43 is my go to CCW that I never leave the house without. The currently produced new Glock pistols ought to work right out of the box.

[ReverendMeat]

My first Glock was a 2012 vintage G19 gen 4. Mostly reliable, though it did choke on some range-mandated remans (which my SIG P239 didn't have any issues with...) and had constant BTF. Already had updated RCA and ejector, installed apex extractor and BTF was much less frequent. Later went to install non-LCI SLB and found that after I installed the apex unit I had ('cause I'm really stupid) put the extractor plunger assembly in backwards. Still worked better in that configuration with the apex than it did out of the box.

[NCmtnman]

LittleLebowski,

Do you also think it is beneficial to follow Apex's recommendation to install the Spring Load Bearing for Glock Model 17, 19, 26 and 34 - Glock Item # SP01176 ?

[LittleLebowski]

LittleLebowski,

Do you also think it is beneficial to follow Apex's recommendation to install the Spring Load Bearing for Glock Model 17, 19, 26 and 34 - Glock Item # SP01176 ?

Definitely.

[DiscipulusArmorum]

#1 on the list seems to have improved my Oct 2011 manufactured Gen 3 Glock 19 that was throwing BTF at about once every 1-2 magazines with the occasional stovepipe malfunction. Took it to Glock HQ last year since I live close, and they were nice enough to replace all the internals (besides the barrel), but that didn't fix anything. A few months after that, I saw some discussion of the 30274 ejector being a possible fix, so I bought a gen 4 trigger housing w/ 30274 ejector, swapped that ejector into my gen 3. Have only been able to test it in the past few weeks, but 400 rounds in, no more BTF. Not nearly enough rounds for me to trust that it's "fixed" enough for me to confidently carry, but this is progress.

Will proceed to #2 if the simple ejector swap doesn't turn out to be the complete fix for this pistol.

[Sero Sed Serio]

Had an interesting malfunction today with my Gen. 2 G19--a class 2 horizontal stovepipe that turned into a class 3. The gun is a 1996 BZKXXXUS gun that I came across unfired--I'm guessing that it sat in a guy's garage for the last couple of decades--it still had the factory gold grease, appropriately gunked up having sat around for almost 20 years.

I replaced all the springs in the gun, installed an Apex Tactical Ultimate Safety Plunger, gave it a thorough cleaning, and lubed it with Slip 2000 EWL as I do all my guns. Possibly noteworthy is that the the extractor held on to an AZoom snap cap with no issue--several of my Glocks, my HK USPc, and my long extractor SIG 226 will not hold the AZooms, but allow the case to slip out from under the extractor claw.

Tonight I fired the Gen. 2 G19 for the first time, using

Today I took it to the range for the first time. I was shooting MagTech 115 gr. FMJ, which I've had good success with in other weapons. Ejection was fairly consistent at around 4:30, with a few oddballs that ejected around 1:00 or so. No BTF. I was just thinking about how awesome the Gen. 2 frame was to shoot, and how it was nice to have a Glock with no BTF or other issues when I loaded my last magazine (a lightly-used 15-round factory magazine that had been reliable in other guns, and was loaded with 14 rounds), fired the first round (round 86), and got this malfunction:

6935

6936

Since I was vetting a new pistol, I didn't immediately clear the malfunction, but stopped to take a look at it and snap a few pics. It looked like a typical horizontal stovepipe. After taking pictures I tired to clear it as I usually would with a vigorous "tap, roll, rack," but that didn't solve the problem. Instead I ended up with this:

6937

The gun tried to feed the next live round (round #2 in the magazine), but failed to eject the empty case from round #1. Recognizing the "double feed," I locked the slide back, but the empty case remained in place, held against the breach face by the extractor claw. I shook the gun lightly and was able to get the live round out of the chamber, but I had to manipulate the empty case out from under the extractor claw. I reloaded the live round, and fired the remainder of the magazine without issue.

It seemed to me that, unlike some of the Gen. 4 issues that come up, this was the result of an extractor that was holding the spent case too tightly, not one that was holding it too loosely. When I installed the Apex plunger, I noticed that the extractor did not drop free when the plunger was depressed, so tonight I dressed it slightly using toothpaste as a polishing compound. It still does not drop completely free, but it does move easier than it did before. I may or may not get to shoot it again this weekend. If I do I'll try to run something weak like CCI/Blazer or Fiocchi.

What would the next step be? Should I install a HRED/30274? Shoot it with the lightly dressed extractor first? Write this off as "break-in?" Apologize to my HK for straying, and promise that it meant nothing? Right now my gut says that dressing the extractor and a 30274 would be my best bets, but I'm open to suggestions.

[jh9]

The words "1996" and "glock 19" rattled something loose.

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/phase3.html

I vaguely remember this being a thing, but by the late 90s I don't think it was common knowledge. I want to say I heard about it on rec.guns from Darrel Mulroy in the course of an internet argument.

You see, there was no "pistol-forum.com" back then. What we had was the newsgroups (or "the groups" we would sometimes call them, because the Kaiser stole the word "news") and a bit later on glocktalk.com, which I think was `98. The important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o-7MmhqNfA&t=14s)

Anyway, the NYPD had some fairly major issues with their gen 2 Glock 19s. What your pics show is an almost perfect replication of that. I don't remember what the resolution was.

[GJM]

The good ole days weren't always so good.

I definitely remember the issue as reported by NYPD with the G19 in the 90's. Just don't recall whether the issue was range ammo, an extractor that got changed in design, or something else.

[Nephrology]

Had a bunch of BTF today with my G4G19 (Serial #BBBX---). Mostly with Magtech 115gr but occasionally with the wolf. Honestly it doesn't bother me as long as i am not getting stovepipes but I ordered an HRED as a precaution. Gun already has newest ejector/RSA, so hopefully the HRED cleans it up. Extractor seems to slip in and out of the channel just fine but I gave it a few gentle passes with a light file, just to break down any edges. We'll see how it does when I shoot some JHPs through in on Monday.

[Sero Sed Serio]

The words "1996" and "glock 19" rattled something loose.

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/phase3.html

I vaguely remember this being a thing, but by the late 90s I don't think it was common knowledge. I want to say I heard about it on rec.guns from Darrel Mulroy in the course of an internet argument.

You see, there was no "pistol-forum.com" back then. What we had was the newsgroups (or "the groups" we would sometimes call them, because the Kaiser stole the word "news") and a bit later on glocktalk.com, which I think was `98. The important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o-7MmhqNfA&t=14s)

Anyway, the NYPD had some fairly major issues with their gen 2 Glock 19s. What your pics show is an almost perfect replication of that. I don't remember what the resolution was.

Thanks for that--I completely spaced on the Phase 3 issue when I posted. I did give the extractor a very light polish, and now it moves more freely (but does not drop out completely without manipulation), and I'm going to try the 30274. If that doesn't work I'll look to swapping the extractor next. I'm not sure the HRED would help right now because the issue with my gun seems to be too MUCH extractor tension, not too little. I'll keep the forum updated as I go.

[Nephrology]

Related question - does anyone know if the White Sound HRED might pre-dispose to malfunctions? Anyone had problems with it inducing FTEs by any chance?

[jh9]

I definitely remember the issue as reported by NYPD with the G19 in the 90's. Just don't recall whether the issue was range ammo, an extractor that got changed in design, or something else.

No idea. The artcle (written by a retired NYPD lieutenant; don't recognize the name) says going from their Winchester loaded mild practice ammo to +P helped but the issue didn't go away.


Thanks for that--I completely spaced on the Phase 3 issue when I posted. I did give the extractor a very light polish, and now it moves more freely (but does not drop out completely without manipulation), and I'm going to try the 30274. If that doesn't work I'll look to swapping the extractor next. I'm not sure the HRED would help right now because the issue with my gun seems to be too MUCH extractor tension, not too little. I'll keep the forum updated as I go.

Midway has a new Glock EDP spring for $3.50... I wonder how it compares in strength to the `96 vintage part. Maybe they reduced the spring tension on the EDP as one of the numerous rolling 'product improvements' to get the guns to work better with lighter loaded ammo?

I don't know enough about Glock product history to say.

[M2CattleCo]

I think that Gen2 has the 15 degree cut on the ejection port so it should be after the NYPD phase III fix.

[Sero Sed Serio]

I think that Gen2 has the 15 degree cut on the ejection port so it should be after the NYPD phase III fix.

Correct, it is a 15 degree breech face cut. 1996 manufacture (not sure the exact month off the top of my head)

[nycnoob]

I was under the impression that the NYPD's stoppage issues were related to the NY Trigger spring.

[HCM]

I was under the impression that the NYPD's stoppage issues were related to the NY Trigger spring.

If I recall correctly, there were some issues with early (black and white) versions of the NY trigger breaking but that was addressed with the newer olive green and orange versions.

However, the main issues were extraction/ ejection as described in the Gunzone post.

[Larry Sellers]

Related question - does anyone know if the White Sound HRED might pre-dispose to malfunctions? Anyone had problems with it inducing FTEs by any chance?

a little late, I have 2 gen 4 19's Both produced around the same time and they both required the HRED. The first one I purchased had the stock internals from the get go until about 1k, Tossed in the HRED and the problem went away. Second 19 I purchased I put the HRED in from the start and haven't had an issue. I did however toss the stock parts back in and the BTF did begin to show itself. Swapped part back and has been ok ever since.

Joe

[Sero Sed Serio]

Apex says that they haven't tested their Gen. 3 extractor in a Gen. 2, but that it should work. I have one on order as well as a 30724 ejector, and will post a follow up once I get them installed.

[Nephrology]

my btf issues have mysteriously resolved. the last ~450 rounds have been all 115gr Wolf and i've had zero BTF. Pretty robust ejection with occasionally high fliers that go ~3-5 feet above my head. Also had good results with 147gr HST (50rds). I'll eventually shoot some 124gr CCI and see if that stuff does well too.

[Greg]

You know you can buy a brand new 3M Face Shield for only 17 bucks.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71KmTOMN8%2BL._SL1500_.jpg

Just sayin'..... :cool:

[Sero Sed Serio]

Apex says that they haven't tested their Gen. 3 extractor in a Gen. 2, but that it should work. I have one on order as well as a 30724 ejector, and will post a follow up once I get them installed.

100 rounds through the Gen. 2 with the Gen. 3 Apex extractor and 30724. No malfunctions, but quite a few rounds ejected at 6 o'clock. Interestingly enough it didn't throw the empties back at my face, but instead tossed them almost straight up--I had two land on top of my head and just sit there in my hair until I was done with the string. Most of the straight-back cases fell between my face and the gun.

[Mjolnir]

That's the path I took, LL. I grabbed an Apex FRE Ass'y and it was good.

I don't like the RSA so I went aftermarket there, too.

Love the freaking pistol now!

Like the VP9 better though.


-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[Greg]

Well, Just to temp fate after my face shield comment, I picked up a Gen4 19 with the intent of letting my wife run it.

The only areas I think the Gen4 9mm Glocks are an improvement are the grip texture, and for those with small hands, the mag release and smaller grip size (without an added backstrap).

I'm keeping the slide locked back until I can break it in with some of my 124gr & 147gr handloads. The extractor seems to pivot freely in its slot so hopefully that is a good sign.
The slide was drenched in oil while the trigger bar/connector junction was bone dry. Kind of odd.... I cleaned out the striker channel & SLB channel with 99% rubbing alcohol.

An OEM extended slide release and Gen3 G17 (smooth faced) trigger are inbound..... Hope this one doesn't suck! :cool:

[Savage Hands]

I keep telling myself that I'm going to write up my experience on this topic since I had an early 2012 Gen 4 G19 (came with the current 30274 ejector) erratic ejection and brass to the eyeball. I was fortunate enough to be one of Apex Tactical's beta testers for their Failure Resistant Extractor and tell only one of 11 testers that had a problem during the test and did not have the erratic ejection 100% corrected. Fortunately it goes high over my head and right shoulder occasionally instead of every direction and into my eyeball. I tried he HRED with no luck before the Apex extractor but it made ejection more forceful and after it made the prototype feel too tight which caused problems feeding.
Needless to say, I'm about 5,000+ rounds with no brass to the face and no malfunctions on the same Gen 4 G19. Out of 15 Glocks so far including a handful of 9mm Gen 4 Glocks, this 19 is the only one that needed the extractor. Eventually I'll add an Apex extractor to all of my Glocks since it is a high quality piece and a crucial part in regards to feeding and extraction.
Here's a few pics of the factory extractor, prototype and production Apex.

The prototype sitting on the slide, Apex FRE installed.
7497

Apex FRE the top two in the pic below , the factory on the bottom.
7498

Factory (L), Prototype (C), Apex FRE (R)
7499

[noguns]

If one wanted to be proactive, at what interval should you replace either the hred assembly or the provided spring that comes with the Apex fre?

[Nephrology]

If one wanted to be proactive, at what interval should you replace either the hred assembly or the provided spring that comes with the Apex fre?

There aren't any official sources for non-RSA preventative maintenance of 9mm guns as far as I am aware, but TLG replaced the RSAs on his G4G17s at 7500 round intervals, and the following parts were replaced at 15000 round intervals:

recoil spring
firing pin block spring
striker spring
mag catch spring
takedown lever spring

He seemed to have few issues when maintaining them this way.

[Mjolnir]

I keep telling myself that I'm going to write up my experience on this topic since I had an early 2012 Gen 4 G19 (came with the current 30274 ejector) erratic ejection and brass to the eyeball. I was fortunate enough to be one of Apex Tactical's beta testers for their Failure Resistant Extractor and tell only one of 11 testers that had a problem during the test and did not have the erratic ejection 100% corrected. Fortunately it goes high over my head and right shoulder occasionally instead of every direction and into my eyeball. I tried he HRED with no luck before the Apex extractor but it made ejection more forceful and after it made the prototype feel too tight which caused problems feeding.
Needless to say, I'm about 5,000+ rounds with no brass to the face and no malfunctions on the same Gen 4 G19. Out of 15 Glocks so far including a handful of 9mm Gen 4 Glocks, this 19 is the only one that needed the extractor. Eventually I'll add an Apex extractor to all of my Glocks since it is a high quality piece and a crucial part in regards to feeding and extraction.
Here's a few pics of the factory extractor, prototype and production Apex.

The prototype sitting on the slide, Apex FRE installed.
7497

Apex FRE the top two in the pic below , the factory on the bottom.
7498

Factory (L), Prototype (C), Apex FRE (R)
7499

Definitely go with the APEX FRE and you should be fine.

White Sound's HRED is also nice but the APEX kit includes the higher power spring and I am not a fan of Glock's MIM extractor. If I had a gun store I would stock APEX Tactical FRE.

I also don't like the RSA. I've replaced mine with this:
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160508/369dd899b0a331c445cd51fee841e153.jpg

I like it a helluva lot better as it does not flex as its a machines stainless steel rod. A side benefit is that it adds mass beneath the barrel which will reduce the minuscule muzzle flip. Not needed but I'll take it.

[Savage Hands]

I noticed in my last post that there are some errors thanks to autocorrect which is auto replace, oh well :o

[DocSabo40]

Not related to fixing anything, but I have noticed that since mounting the RMR on my G19 that I haven't been hit in the face with brass once. The RMR is an excellent brass deflector! It is tactically amazing as well: occasionally the timing is perfect and a piece of brass will get flung 20-25 feet downrange. If shooting close targets, the cases can actually hit the target turning a potentially annoying BTF issue into one of pure win, as the brass has been redirected to hit someone else in the face. Perfection perfected perfectly.

[ssb]

Perhaps this is a stupid question, but what's the difference between the APEX Gen 4 extractor and the Gen 3 extractor?

Reason I ask is, I'm looking at picking up a Gen 3 G17 this weekend and I have a spare Gen 4 extractor laying around. I'm curious if the two are compatible in the event I get BTF issues.

[NickDrak]

This has been my same exact recipe for success with all of my Gen4 9mm Glocks. One early production G17, one early production G19, and one recent production G17. Any Gen4 Glock I purchase will automatically get the Apex FRE/White Sound HRED treatment.

[M2CattleCo]

My last foray into the realm of perfection left me with a unique set of training scars.

1) I have several burn marks on the back of my neck, the crook of my arm, and one at my lower back where cases have managed to land on me.

2) While shooting, I'm constantly checking to my right to see where the brass is going. I found that one to be just as ridiculous as the first, but more embarrassing when asked "WHAT are you looking for??"

[Larry Sellers]

Just purchased a brand new g17 4th generation. Throws brass a country mile every time. Hoping that I lucked out this time.

[Nephrology]

Just purchased a brand new g17 4th generation. Throws brass a country mile every time. Hoping that I lucked out this time.

I haven't had any issues with my Gen 4 G19 or Gen 4 G17. My 17 has an HRED in it but I didn't have any issues with it before, either.

[Larry Sellers]

I haven't had any issues with my Gen 4 G19 or Gen 4 G17. My 17 has an HRED in it but I didn't have any issues with it before, either.

I've had 2 19's that required the HRED to avoid the BTF and this newest 17 is running great


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[DocSabo40]

I was wrong about the RMR serving as a brass deflector. It does work, but a few still find their way right over the RMR and into my forehead. There may be less expensive options out there.

[Mitch]

I have a gen 4 19 that required the HRED and a light polish on the extractor. Ejection is now consistent and robust, except with Federal American Eagle 115 gr and Federal 147 gr HST.

It gobbles up my reloads, Tula, Speer, CCI Brass, whatever. Federal, not so much. I have a sore spot on my forehead from the first round of a mag of HST that I was carrying (that was a bad feeling in a couple ways). The rest of the box of HST was like a lawn sprinkler. No malfunctions, but ejecting to the left, right, straight back, some forward. Federal american eagle is a bit of the same, though it ejects with less force than the HST. It's a bitter pill to swallow, because 147 HST is very accurate out of the gun.

I'm kind of tired of spending range time testing the gun rather than practicing. If it preforms well with Speer Gold dots am I safe in sticking with that, or is the gun's distaste of federal a sign of a bigger problem still lingering?

[Larry Sellers]

I have a gen 4 19 that required the HRED and a light polish on the extractor. Ejection is now consistent and robust, except with Federal American Eagle 115 gr and Federal 147 gr HST.

It gobbles up my reloads, Tula, Speer, CCI Brass, whatever. Federal, not so much. I have a sore spot on my forehead from the first round of a mag of HST that I was carrying (that was a bad feeling in a couple ways). The rest of the box of HST was like a lawn sprinkler. No malfunctions, but ejecting to the left, right, straight back, some forward. Federal american eagle is a bit of the same, though it ejects with less force than the HST. It's a bitter pill to swallow, because 147 HST is very accurate out of the gun.

I'm kind of tired of spending range time testing the gun rather than practicing. If it preforms well with Speer Gold dots am I safe in sticking with that, or is the gun's distaste of federal a sign of a bigger problem still lingering?



Heres my small take on it. I have the aforementioned pistols. Both of them run any type of ammo, the ejection is a different story. I shoot a ton of reloads and they are pretty robust and the brass goes a country mile. That being said, I have shot some PMC bronze and the federal and there has been pretty weak ejection as well as erratic patterns as well. I think if it runs in your gun then personally I would be okay with carrying it and running it, it all boils down to what you feel comfortable with. Personally I run the 147 HST's in my glock 19 and my 9mm dan wesson and they always run well without issue. Glocks especially have some funky things between the same weapons. I've heard of two consecutive serial number glock 19's shooting a completely different POA/POI with the same ammo and sights.

[M2CattleCo]

I had to just quit after I realized that I had developed a serious training scar that affecting my shooting. I was paying attention to where my brass was going between shots and developed a cringing/flinching stance from having had a few cases go down the back of my shirt.

DONE.

[Irelander]

My Gen3 G19 had erratic ejection. I just stuck a 30724 ejector in it and fired off a few mags worth Federal 115gr range ammo that I use the most. The ejection was all nicely directed to left and just a tad back. Not super authoritative ejection but very consistent. Need to check my carry ammo.

[CDFIII]

So I finally got my Gen. 4 19 from 3point5.com. Cheaper than Blue Label by a few dollars but had to wait a couple of months. Anyway should I go ahead and install the Apex extractor before I even shoot it? I hate to go out and waste ammo and time only to have to retest if it starts showing btf. I'm thinking... just go on and install it before the initial range trip and start from there. thoughts?

[Greg]

My Gen3 G19 had erratic ejection. I just stuck a 30724 ejector in it and fired off a few mags worth Federal 115gr range ammo that I use the most. The ejection was all nicely directed to left and just a tad back. Not super authoritative ejection but very consistent. Need to check my carry ammo.

If it is ejecting left I think that 19 is FUBAR.


So I finally got my Gen. 4 19 from 3point5.com. Cheaper than Blue Label by a few dollars but had to wait a couple of months. Anyway should I go ahead and install the Apex extractor before I even shoot it? I hate to go out and waste ammo and time only to have to retest if it starts showing btf. I'm thinking... just go on and install it before the initial range trip and start from there. thoughts?

Shoot it and see how it runs. I was nervous about picking up a Gen4 19 but the one I bought ejects just as well as any G19 (I own several). I wouldn't put up with jacked up ejection.

[psalms144.1]

I have a summer 2012 Gen4 G19 that was problematic with BTF. Tried all the factory recommended fixes with no luck. Switched to an Apex extractor and it ran better for a couple thousand rounds, but recently started with wonky ejection again. Put the HRED in with the factory extractor and now it's throwing brass cleanly and forcefully again. Time will tell if this fix "sticks" or if there's something to do with age/round count that causes "problem" G19s to gradually worsen over time...

[dungdn93]

Thanks for posting this, if I have trouble, your advice is what I will follow.

[Nephrology]

For what it's worth I have an HRED in a G4G17 and it flings brass into a neat pile about 3-5' to my 4 o'clock. Few if any BTF. Thinking of buying a few more for my Gen 3 guns.

[MVS]

I have a summer 2012 Gen4 G19 that was problematic with BTF. Tried all the factory recommended fixes with no luck. Switched to an Apex extractor and it ran better for a couple thousand rounds, but recently started with wonky ejection again. Put the HRED in with the factory extractor and now it's throwing brass cleanly and forcefully again. Time will tell if this fix "sticks" or if there's something to do with age/round count that causes "problem" G19s to gradually worsen over time...

My Gen4 is fine. I have a Gen3 that has always done BTF. I put in the Apex extractor and that helped, but believe it or not a couple of thousand rounds in it broke. I went back to the stock part and back to poor ejection. I am going to try the HRED.

[DocSabo40]

Do Gen4 23's have the same issues? I've been through 3 Gen4 19s trying to find a reliable one and have pretty much given up, but Glocks are just so easy to shoot well. I competed with a 35 back in the day that went a little over 45k before any part breakage, but I have zero experience with gen4 .40's.

[LittleLebowski]

Do Gen4 23's have the same issues? I've been through 3 Gen4 19s trying to find a reliable one and have pretty much given up, but Glocks are just so easy to shoot well. I competed with a 35 back in the day that went a little over 45k before any part breakage, but I have zero experience with gen4 .40's.

They have a good reputation. However, have you tried the White Sound HRED and other steps I detailed in the OP?

[Nephrology]

Do Gen4 23's have the same issues? I've been through 3 Gen4 19s trying to find a reliable one and have pretty much given up, but Glocks are just so easy to shoot well. I competed with a 35 back in the day that went a little over 45k before any part breakage, but I have zero experience with gen4 .40's.

I had a Gen 4 G23 and cannot recommend them. I had 6-7 FTFeeds in ~1600 rounds when shot with an attached WML. I had brand new springs, brand new mags, the latest of Glock's recommendations, and it didnt' help. Last straw was when it choked on a round of 180gr Federal HST; essentially the most ideal ammo for the gun. Cannot recommend them.

Are your G19s experiencing stoppages or just flinging brass to your face? If it's the latter, I'd try the HRED + other solutions first, but either way I would much rather get brass to my face than have to deal with a gun that doesn't feed.

[DocSabo40]

They have a good reputation. However, have you tried the White Sound HRED and other steps I detailed in the OP?

I have tried the steps in the OP, but only on the last G19. The first one, I was convinced it was a fluke and I hadn't heard of the issues yet so I replaced it. The second one I tried an Apex extractor, different RSAs, polished the stock extractor, and replaced the ejector. The latest one was post-LL thread I tried everything, in order. I even started working out with CoC grippers in case it really was a "limp wristing" (it hurts me to write that) issue.

Neph, they are actual stoppages. I can handle BTF, my old G35 did that too. I just wore a hat and glasses. Here's a few of the stoppages. There were many, many more that I didn't care to document. Sounds like the G23 is a bit of a gamble too. That's too bad. I grew up on Glocks and would just love to have one that freaking worked.

943994409441

[guymontag]

Tangential question - has anyone fixed BTF or erratic ejection in an earlier generation gun? If so, could you please detail the process if it differs from the OP? Thanks!

Update: After trying the 30274 ejector, HRED and recoil springs in conjunction with one another I found the perfect combination for my Gen. II Glock 17 - original 336 ejector, HRED, and any stock recoil spring or lighter, I use 13lb. for gaming purposes. I finally get to enjoy Glocks now, even my Gen. III guns that have always worked well. :rolleyes:

[Nephrology]

I have tried the steps in the OP, but only on the last G19. The first one, I was convinced it was a fluke and I hadn't heard of the issues yet so I replaced it. The second one I tried an Apex extractor, different RSAs, polished the stock extractor, and replaced the ejector. The latest one was post-LL thread I tried everything, in order. I even started working out with CoC grippers in case it really was a "limp wristing" (it hurts me to write that) issue.

Neph, they are actual stoppages. I can handle BTF, my old G35 did that too. I just wore a hat and glasses. Here's a few of the stoppages. There were many, many more that I didn't care to document. Sounds like the G23 is a bit of a gamble too. That's too bad. I grew up on Glocks and would just love to have one that freaking worked.

943994409441

Huh. Sorry to hear that. I have had no functional issues with my 2 4th Gen 9mms that couldn't be attributed to ammunition or neutered 10rd magazines. These issues are all with factory ammo? I presume you've contacted Glock about this?

[LittleLebowski]

I have tried the steps in the OP, but only on the last G19. The first one, I was convinced it was a fluke and I hadn't heard of the issues yet so I replaced it. The second one I tried an Apex extractor, different RSAs, polished the stock extractor, and replaced the ejector. The latest one was post-LL thread I tried everything, in order. I even started working out with CoC grippers in case it really was a "limp wristing" (it hurts me to write that) issue.

Neph, they are actual stoppages. I can handle BTF, my old G35 did that too. I just wore a hat and glasses. Here's a few of the stoppages. There were many, many more that I didn't care to document. Sounds like the G23 is a bit of a gamble too. That's too bad. I grew up on Glocks and would just love to have one that freaking worked.


At this point, I'd recommend changing range ammo to something hotter.

[DocSabo40]

I started with my reloads, because that's what I shoot 99% of the time. Once the problems started, I tried a variety of factory ammo. The only one that consistently worked was Federal HST 124gr, my carry ammo. A little expensive for practice though.

I did contact Glock and got the limp-wristing run around. They did offer to look at it if I paid to ship it to them.

[LittleLebowski]

I started with my reloads, because that's what I shoot 99% of the time. Once the problems started, I tried a variety of factory ammo. The only one that consistently worked was Federal HST 124gr, my carry ammo. A little expensive for practice though.

I did contact Glock and got the limp-wristing run around. They did offer to look at it if I paid to ship it to them.

Try making your reloads a bit hotter.

[DocSabo40]

That's the odd thing LL, I do run my reloads a little warm. I'm into practicing with something that recoils close to my carry ammo. I run 124gr plated over 4.9gr of Unique which gives me 1090fps out of my 19. That's right at what the HST's chrono at.

I do note that Federal cases have a fairly pronounced rim, I wonder if that has something to do with it. I never sorted my brass, but I may try some "Federal brass only" loads and see if that does anything. May be a fun project.

[Nephrology]

I started with my reloads, because that's what I shoot 99% of the time. Once the problems started, I tried a variety of factory ammo. The only one that consistently worked was Federal HST 124gr, my carry ammo. A little expensive for practice though.

I did contact Glock and got the limp-wristing run around. They did offer to look at it if I paid to ship it to them.

It shouldn't require Federal HST to cycle. My guns have all worked with cheap shitty 115gr ammo (Wolf, Brown Bear, Winchester White Box, you name it) and aside from the occasional brass-to-face have had 0 problems. Definitely send it to Glock.

[guymontag]

I have tried the steps in the OP, but only on the last G19. The first one, I was convinced it was a fluke and I hadn't heard of the issues yet so I replaced it. The second one I tried an Apex extractor, different RSAs, polished the stock extractor, and replaced the ejector. The latest one was post-LL thread I tried everything, in order. I even started working out with CoC grippers in case it really was a "limp wristing" (it hurts me to write that) issue.


I know you've tried everything, and in order - but have you tried the OEM extractor, OEM ejector, and the HRED? My problems in a Gen. II got WORSE with the Apex and the 30274, stoppages similar to yours at times.

Edit: And after that I would try a reduced power recoil spring... but that's just me.

[Nephrology]

Can someone remind me what the purpose behind polishing the ejector is? I am trying to fix the BTF I get with my older 3rd gen G19. Threw in an HRED that maybe helped some but I still get some BTF now and again with 115gr ammo. Was thinking of swapping the ejector next but want to see if I can make do with the stock 336 ejector.

[DocSabo40]

The light polish is going on the extractor I believe, not the ejector. I think the purpose is just to prevent the extractor from binding in the slide during rotation.

In response to guy: I got rid of the 19 and picked up a 17. Runs like a top, and I'm finding that I prefer the slightly longer grip.

[Willard]

My problems in a Gen. II got WORSE with the Apex and the 30274, stoppages similar to yours at times.


Guy, my understanding was the Apex was only for Gen 3 & 4. Esp with the 90 degree version.

[Larry Sellers]

Luckily my 4th gen 17 has started with the BTF after 1149 rounds. Will see if the HRED fixes the issues as it did in both of my 4th gen 19's.

[Nephrology]

Luckily my 4th gen 17 has started with the BTF after 1149 rounds. Will see if the HRED fixes the issues as it did in both of my 4th gen 19's.

For whatever it's worth, the HRED took about 100-200 rounds to get 'settled in' with my G17. Works really well now.

[Larry Sellers]

For whatever it's worth, the HRED took about 100-200 rounds to get 'settled in' with my G17. Works really well now.
roger that, have another on order to drop in to the pistol. Will see how it goes over the next few months as I'm transitioning to the 19 for carry and training etc..

Joe

[Kanati]

I picked up a Gen 4 G19 in June to be a backup / spare to my primary carry Gen 4 G19. I've had no issues with the first pistol. The new pistol, from the very first rounds fired, would BTF me 3-4 times a mag. Extraction was all over the map; face, to my left, over my head, 3-4 o'clock, had one that kinda rolled out ended up perfectly upright on the slide just behind the barrel. This was with WWB and Tula ammo for the most part; +p Gold Dots worked OK. I was NOT pleased.

Yesterday, I installed an HRED and an Apex Gen 3 extractor. Ran up to a local redneck range (there are advantages to living in coal country....plenty of places to shoot, and noone thinks anything of it) and shot 3 mags of WWB and a 50 round box of Tula. Zero BTF and everything ejected into a loose circle a few feet away at my 4-ish o'clock.

It is frustrating to have to drop after market parts into a brand new gun to keep brass off of your grill.

[Nephrology]

So, I've had the most curious experience with my oldest 2 glocks; a 19 and a 17RTF, both 3rd gens made in 2007 (MGX) and 2009 respectively. Both have been recently retired-ish from active working use as I picked up 4th gen replacements for each that I find I shoot a little better. Both guns began to gave me noticeable brass to face issues that I first noticed around spring of 2015, when the 19 was at approximately 8000 rounds and the 17 was at about 7000.

Recently, at round counts 8800 and 7600 for the 19 and 17 respectively, I replaced their existing extractor depressor plunger units with White Sound HREDs, hoping this would solve the problem. In the 19 it has, if anything, made things worse; now brass comes back at my face with very respectable velocities that make me very flinchy when shooting the gun. Today, in trying out the 17, the HRED completely reversed the problem; put all my brass in a neat little pile at my ~3:30.

Very weird that 2 guns of the "good" era vintage with the same problem an similar roundcounts would respond so differently to the HRED. Have a new ejector coming for the 19; we'll see if it changes anything.

[oldtexan]

So, I've had the most curious experience with my oldest 2 glocks; a 19 and a 17RTF, both 3rd gens made in 2007 (MGX) and 2009 respectively. Both have been recently retired-ish from active working use as I picked up 4th gen replacements for each that I find I shoot a little better. Both guns began to gave me noticeable brass to face issues that I first noticed around spring of 2015, when the 19 was at approximately 8000 rounds and the 17 was at about 7000.

Recently, at round counts 8800 and 7600 for the 19 and 17 respectively, I replaced their existing extractor depressor plunger units with White Sound HREDs, hoping this would solve the problem. In the 19 it has, if anything, made things worse; now brass comes back at my face with very respectable velocities that make me very flinchy when shooting the gun. Today, in trying out the 17, the HRED completely reversed the problem; put all my brass in a neat little pile at my ~3:30.

Very weird that 2 guns of the "good" era vintage with the same problem an similar roundcounts would respond so differently to the HRED. Have a new ejector coming for the 19; we'll see if it changes anything.

Nephrology, were the two guns still running on the original recoil springs when they developed BTF?

[Nephrology]

Nephrology, were the two guns still running on the original recoil springs when they developed BTF?

No, both have gotten fresh recoil springs in the last ~3000 rounds, and both handily pass the Glock recoil inspection test.

[Nephrology]

So, I've had the most curious experience with my oldest 2 glocks; a 19 and a 17RTF, both 3rd gens made in 2007 (MGX) and 2009 respectively. Both have been recently retired-ish from active working use as I picked up 4th gen replacements for each that I find I shoot a little better. Both guns began to gave me noticeable brass to face issues that I first noticed around spring of 2015, when the 19 was at approximately 8000 rounds and the 17 was at about 7000.

Recently, at round counts 8800 and 7600 for the 19 and 17 respectively, I replaced their existing extractor depressor plunger units with White Sound HREDs, hoping this would solve the problem. In the 19 it has, if anything, made things worse; now brass comes back at my face with very respectable velocities that make me very flinchy when shooting the gun. Today, in trying out the 17, the HRED completely reversed the problem; put all my brass in a neat little pile at my ~3:30.

Very weird that 2 guns of the "good" era vintage with the same problem an similar roundcounts would respond so differently to the HRED. Have a new ejector coming for the 19; we'll see if it changes anything.

For what it's worth, installing the 30274 ejector in the above-mentioned Gen 3 Glock 19 has totally resolved my issues. 190 rounds down the pipe today (150rds 115gr Silver Bear, 40rds 147gr Winchester Ranger T), none hit my forehead and the majority ejected in a neat little pile about 5' to my right at roughly my 3 o'clock.

[Nephrology]

For what it's worth, installing the 30274 ejector in the above-mentioned Gen 3 Glock 19 has totally resolved my issues. 190 rounds down the pipe today (150rds 115gr Silver Bear, 40rds 147gr Winchester Ranger T), none hit my forehead and the majority ejected in a neat little pile about 5' to my right at roughly my 3 o'clock.

Here's photo evidence .... the arrow is roughly right in between where my 2 feet were placed, pistol was obviously pointed away from my Toyota...

http://i.imgur.com/jMaP44C.jpg

[guymontag]

And the BTF problem re-emerged in my G17 in the last steel match I went to, and a few even happened in my G34.

I guess it's just me, even though I've never had this problem in CZ's, Walther's, HK's. I'm tiring of it.

[Nephrology]

And the BTF problem re-emerged in my G17 in the last steel match I went to, and a few even happened in my G34.

I guess it's just me, even though I've never had this problem in CZ's, Walther's, HK's. I'm tiring of it.

In my above guns it took until past the 5k round mark for these problems to surface, and to be totally fair I never did try to resolve the issues with OEM parts. Buy the HRED and 30274 ejectors; combined they are about $25 and made my issues disappear entirely.

[guymontag]

Follow up - the ejection has been a bit better, still erratic just not in my face which is nice. It has allowed me to set a few PR's and do a bit better in competitions than normal - anecdotal and not scientific for the latter of course.

BUT, my G17* did have a sideways stovepipe at this past match. Oh well! :rolleyes:

*G17 with HRED and original 336 ejector and original extractor (this combo gave the most reliability up until now, may experiment again with the APEX extractor and 30274)

[Nephrology]

Follow up - the ejection has been a bit better, still erratic just not in my face which is nice. It has allowed me to set a few PR's and do a bit better in competitions than normal - anecdotal and not scientific for the latter of course.

BUT, my G17* did have a sideways stovepipe at this past match. Oh well! :rolleyes:

*G17 with HRED and original 336 ejector and original extractor (this combo gave the most reliability up until now, may experiment again with the APEX extractor and 30274)

3rd or 4th gen?

[guymontag]

3rd or 4th gen?

2nd Gen that displays heavy brass streaks on the ejection port. I spoke to another poster that said lowering the ejection port was the best cure, however I am deciding to wait on that particular modification.

[DocSabo40]

I just picked up a new 19 and the little bastard is failing the recoil spring test (point it up, slide won't close all the way). I've tried changing out every part in the gun with new spares that I have, same thing. Using a different RSA makes no difference. Is this a known issue or have I discovered another gem from Glock?

[Larry Sellers]

The same tests that work on the Gen 3 guns is not a reliable test for the 4th gen guns

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[DocSabo40]

Are you saying that the "12:00 test" is not valid on gen4 guns? That would be the first time I've heard that.

[Larry Sellers]

Yes it is not the same test, I've asked on this forum before and had the same results that you did and was told that is not a reliable test for the 4th generation pistols

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Savage Hands]

Have you shot it? I'd try that before assuming a problem. Is it properly lubricated?

[Larry Sellers]

The guns run fine. I'm familiar with the 12 o'clock test that applied to the 3rd gens. My 4th gens 2 19s and a 17 don't pass it even with brand new recoil springs. One 19 has North of 7k through it.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[guymontag]

I just picked up a new 19 and the little bastard is failing the recoil spring test (point it up, slide won't close all the way). I've tried changing out every part in the gun with new spares that I have, same thing. Using a different RSA makes no difference. Is this a known issue or have I discovered another gem from Glock?

I've had that issue with two Gen. II Glocks with fresh RSAs in the past. The one I kept no longer hangs up with competition springs, and as others noted my Gen IV will still hang up ever so slightly. I disagree with the assumption some make that if it hangs up you need a new fresh OEM rated recoil spring. Maybe it shows more of the balance in the spring relationship I don't know... but I never saw a correlation in function with the test and a new OEM spring.

[DocSabo40]

OK thanks for the info. I'm not sure if it runs yet. I function test any new gun before taking it out and to the best of my knowledge this one failed; I wanted to remedy that before firing it. Sounds like I'm good to go.

[Larry Sellers]

I'd be more concerned with brass to the face

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[blues]

I've had that issue with two Gen. II Glocks with fresh RSAs in the past. The one I kept no longer hangs up with competition springs, and as others noted my Gen IV will still hang up ever so slightly. I disagree with the assumption some make that if it hangs up you need a new fresh OEM rated recoil spring. Maybe it shows more of the balance in the spring relationship I don't know... but I never saw a correlation in function with the test and a new OEM spring.

FWIW, my Gen2 19 was failing the test intermittently and once I installed a new OEM RSA, it passed first time, every time.

[Savage Hands]

I'd be more concerned with brass to the face

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Unless it was a 9mm made between 2010 and 2012 it's highly unlikely, I've only owned about 15 Glocks so far and 1 Gen 4 G19 had it that I corrected with Apex's extractor.

[Larry Sellers]

There are plenty of people here on the forum that see the issue with new guns. Don't be so provincial with your experience. There are a lot of people here who shoot a lot more than you'd think who have had to remedy the situation as you have.

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[Savage Hands]

There are plenty of people here on the forum that see the issue with new guns. Don't be so provincial with your experience. There are a lot of people here who shoot a lot more than you'd think who have had to remedy the situation as you have.

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I've been around this issue for awhile now and beta tested the extractor for Apex, I didn't say it wasn't possible I said it was unlikely. The BTF issue was a combination of problems that should be minimized to almost nothing now. Worrying about BTF before actually shooting the gun is pointless IMO. I've been on this forum since the beginning and knew Todd before it existed, you lecturing me is silly.

[Larry Sellers]

I've been around this issue for awhile now and beta tested the extractor for Apex, I didn't say it wasn't possible I said it was unlikely. The BTF issue was a combination of problems that should be minimized to almost nothing now. Worrying about BTF before actually shooting the gun is pointless IMO. I've been on this forum since the beginning and knew Todd before it existed, you lecturing me is silly.
Okay. Not sure how you see it as a lecture and congrats on being an OG on the forum as well as a beta tester for Apex. I wasn't able to see your shooting or forum resume from my phone, if I had seen it before I posted I would have realized who I was speaking to. Please forgive me....

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[Doc_Glock]

Step 1 worked for me on a Gen 4 19 that had ferocious BTF and occasional FTE. 100% for 500 rounds since replacement of the earlier style extractor.

Thanks.

[Savage Hands]

Okay. Not sure how you see it as a lecture and congrats on being an OG on the forum as well as a beta tester for Apex. I wasn't able to see your shooting or forum resume from my phone, if I had seen it before I posted I would have realized who I was speaking to. Please forgive me....

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You're welcome...

[DocSabo40]

Well the Glock gods have smiled upon me with my new 19. I brought 3 different extractors, a spare ejector, and an HRED with me to the range, all ready to tear into this thing to get it running right. After my last two 19s, I was not all that hopeful. But ooooh I was so wrong. Even with my "inconsistent" reloads, the brass was flung somewhere between 3 o'clock and just short of my head. This beauty reminds me of the Glocks of old. Thank you Glock dieties.

[Morbidbattlecry]

This issue still hasn't cleared up? Damn.. Anyways i had good luck with the Apex extractor on my Gen 3 17. I was getting BTF bad. I replaced the ejector and the extractor. I didn't have any luck. And Randy Lee at Apex was nice enough to fit it for me and test for free. Recently the little indexing tab broke off. I have no idea when As it didn't impede function. Then i started to get failure to feeds every 30 rounds or so. I think too much material has chipped away from the extractor for it to work perfect every time.


Anyways! Long story short. Your apex extractor may need fitted a little bit.

[M2CattleCo]

I just put 1K rounds through a brand-new Gen 4 19 and it was one of the worst I've seen.

About half the cases landed on my arms, hit my hat, landed on my head, landed on the slide, just went everywhere.

[Larry Sellers]

Just ran 200 through one of my 19s....it's filthy and Half the brass landed on my forearms. That new cz that's supposed to fit all the glock 19 holsters is becoming more and more appealing.

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[Morbidbattlecry]

It makes me wonder how Glock can ignore such a widespread issues. I mean i know upper management can be dumb. But this is high level stupidity. I was just listening to Larry Vickers on his Facebook live cast. He said rumor had it the FBI was having issues with their "Gen5" guns. Then again he did say it was just a rumor but i can totally see it.

[blues]

Just ran 200 through one of my 19s....it's filthy and Half the brass landed on my forearms. That new cz that's supposed to fit all the glock 19 holsters is becoming more and more appealing.

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If you get the CZ, I for one would be very interested in your impressions.

[Larry Sellers]

If you get the CZ, I for one would be very interested in your impressions.
That's the next endeavor for early 2018. I have a few glocks that are rarely used for anything and I'm going to sell them for the $ to purchase the p10c. I can get one through the first responder program but time will tell if they actually have any to ship.



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[blues]

That's the next endeavor for early 2018. I have a few glocks that are rarely used for anything and I'm going to sell them for the $ to purchase the p10c. I can get one through the first responder program but time will tell if they actually have any to ship.

I've no intention of selling my G19 or G26 as they run (dare I say it?) near perfectly. But if I decide to add another carry / home defense firearm, the CZ might be in the running vs say a G19 or G17.

Reviews from trusted sources here on P-F will go a long way toward helping to sort out that process though ultimately it will be the individual firearm that dictates whether it carries the day or not.

[Larry Sellers]

I've no intention of selling my G19 or G26 as they run (dare I say it?) near perfectly. But if I decide to add another carry / home defense firearm, the CZ might be in the running vs say a G19 or G17.

Reviews from trusted sources here on P-F will go a long way toward helping to sort out that process though ultimately it will be the individual firearm that dictates whether it carries the day or not.
Absolutely. I've got 2 19s that run okay. No function issues save for some BTF and erratic ejection but they've always cycled everything that fits in the chamber. I've got a CZ P-07 that ejects brass like mad and consistent, that being said it sits on a shelf in the safe.
I've got high hopes for the p10c, but I'm not hoping for a miracle.

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[Pima Cty Five-O]

So, I have a G17.4 with 9300+ rds., purchased 07/16. It has always had erratic ejection with most ammo I've put through it. I've used Federal Aluminum & brass case 115 gr., AE 115 gr., Speer 147 gr. Lawman (#53020), HST 147 gr. & Federal 98BPLE 115+p+. BTF at times, ejection to the left (how does that happen?). Gun has a Streamlight TLR-1 WML on it 100% of the time. Use a very high firm grip with the large non-beavertail backstrap
Gun has all the latest parts: the 0-4-2 RSA & the 30274 ejector but was a lawn sprinkler until I put an HRED in it almost 700 rds. ago.
Now ejection is strong & consistent 3 o'clock with no BTF like my issued G22.4. But still fails the no mag test, regardless of the ammo. So, an Apex Gen 4 FRE is inbound. Will use it in conjunction with the HRED and be done with this nonsense.

And later this summer I plan to pick up a SIG P320 FS and start testing that out. I love my Glocks and will always have a 17, but you never know.

Gary

[Nephrology]

So I've been tinkering with my new gray frame G4G19. Never had substantial BTF issues but wanted to make it run as perfectly as I could as I plan on making this my carry pistol after wringing it out rather thoroughly.

I noticed the stock 30274 ejector it came with seemed different from the same part in my other guns. Wasn't turned outwards quite as much and seemed to have smaller frontal surface area. Swapped it for a spare I had laying around. Combined with my Apex FRE + HRED I found this gave me consistent but weak ejection - perfect angle, no BTF, but definitely weaker than before. Lower powered ammo like PMC 115gr landing in a neat pile about 3-4 feet to my right. Previously it flung brass 10-15 feet, but at a wider variety of angles.

Was thinking this might be from using the HRED - anyone else had this occur with the HRED/Apex FRE combo? I'm thinking it might be exerting just enough tension of the extractor that it's taking more energy to kick the brass free of the extractor claw. Thoughts? I'll tinker with this anyway, but wanted to get some feedback first.

[lazarus long]

The BTF demon in my G19 has been exorcised!! My pistol is a G19 Gen4 MOS. I was experiencing at least 2-3 BTF's per 15 round magazine with all weights and velocities of factory and reloaded ammunition. BTW, the Apex and HRED were not the solution, so I kept trying.

First, my thanks to all the contributors to this topic who educated me. Second, my thanks to Apex Tactical Specialties for their instruction on extractor fitting.
https://www.apextactical.com/blog/index.php/random-apex/apex-glock-extractor-g-fre-fitting/. The usual YMMV caveat applies, but here is what worked for me.

The main take-away from from what I learned is that the empty shell casing must be held tightly against the breech face before the ejector kicks out the shell. The Apex instructions make it clear in the description of figure 4 that downward pressure on the shell must be 3.5-4 lbs to push the shell down out of the extractor. In my instance, the pressure needed was only about 1 lb or less. I expect that tolerance stacking was the culprit. From my spare parts bin, I found an old Gen 3 non-LCI extractor, and combined that with a stock plunger and a white spring loaded bearing. The pressure required to push the shell down jumped from < 1 lb to about 4 lbs. After those changes were made the BTF went away. I have put 200 rounds down range with a variety of factory hollow points and my own 124 gr. reloads with no BTF problems. The ejection pattern is about 4:00 at a distance of 3-6 feet, depending on how hot the rounds are.

I wish you luck.

[Crawls]

I have an early Gen4 Glock 17 with all its original parts that had been happily running along until it hit about 5,000 rounds or so (I don't track it that closely anymore.) The gun has always had ejection problems with week ammo like UMC and WWB, but ran like a champ on Winchester Nato (Q4318) and even ran fine on 115 gr Tula steel case. So my solution to the weak ejection was to stick to hotter ammo.

At my last range trip, this gun started to have extraction problems - two or three rounds out of 200 failed to extract from the chamber. So I decided to order up the full list of parts from the OP and see if it would fix the extraction and ejection problems. This was my first time tearing into a Glock beyond just a basic cleaning, but I got it all back together and need to hit the range to make sure everything works.

Here are some observations that might help others going through this for the first time:
1. If using the H.E.R.D., there is no need to use/order the non LCI bearing that you'd order if you were just using the Apex F.R.E. The bearing is the little plastic nub at the end of the "extractor depressor plunger assembly" and it is an integral part of the H.E.R.D.. So, save the $1.97 and don't order it.
2. The spring that comes with the Apex FRE is not needed if you install a HERD at the same time. After years of spinning wrenches on vehicles, I stressed about having extra parts at the end of this project, but it's OK this time.

Thanks.

[Nephrology]

I have an early Gen4 Glock 17 with all its original parts that had been happily running along until it hit about 5,000 rounds or so (I don't track it that closely anymore.) The gun has always had ejection problems with week ammo like UMC and WWB, but ran like a champ on Winchester Nato (Q4318) and even ran fine on 115 gr Tula steel case. So my solution to the weak ejection was to stick to hotter ammo.

At my last range trip, this gun started to have extraction problems - two or three rounds out of 200 failed to extract from the chamber. So I decided to order up the full list of parts from the OP and see if it would fix the extraction and ejection problems. This was my first time tearing into a Glock beyond just a basic cleaning, but I got it all back together and need to hit the range to make sure everything works.

Here are some observations that might help others going through this for the first time:
1. If using the H.E.R.D., there is no need to use/order the non LCI bearing that you'd order if you were just using the Apex F.R.E. The bearing is the little plastic nub at the end of the "extractor depressor plunger assembly" and it is an integral part of the H.E.R.D.. So, save the $1.97 and don't order it.
2. The spring that comes with the Apex FRE is not needed if you install a HERD at the same time. After years of spinning wrenches on vehicles, I stressed about having extra parts at the end of this project, but it's OK this time.

Thanks.

Your recoil spring is also at the end of its service life, FYI...

[JCS]

Your recoil spring is also at the end of its service life, FYI...

5,000 rounds is the life of a recoil spring?


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[CS Tactical]

5,000 rounds is the life of a recoil spring?


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IIRC Glock recommends replacement at 3,000 for the single RSA and 5,000 for the dual RSA.

[Crawls]

Your recoil spring is also at the end of its service life, FYI...

Yep. I replaced that too. It's one of the parts listed in LL's OP.

[echo5charlie]

IIRC Glock recommends replacement at 3,000 for the single RSA and 5,000 for the dual RSA.

When I went through my first Glock armorers course in 2002, we were told that the RSA for the non-sub compacts (now referred to as the single RSA) was 5000 rounds and the sub compacts was 20,000 rounds. My long overdue recert course in 2011 covered the then-new Gen4 and we were told that the single RSA was good to 5000 rounds and the dual RSA for the Gen4 was good to (get ready for this) 20,000 rounds with (then) current testing indicating 40,000 rounds was possible. I recently recerted last month and we were told that 3000/5000 was the life cycle.

I'd love to know what the hell happened! I would have asked the instructor, but he was SUPER green.


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[TexasLarryE]

Do Gen4 23's have the same issues? I've been through 3 Gen4 19s trying to find a reliable one and have pretty much given up, but Glocks are just so easy to shoot well. I competed with a 35 back in the day that went a little over 45k before any part breakage, but I have zero experience with gen4 .40's.

I have read this entire posting and have registered on P-F this evening BECAUSE my reliable G23 gen 4 assaulted me twice in the face today at the range, ending a run of about 3,000 rounds of almost perfection. If I didn't have my range glasses on, I would probably have had to go to an ER because it came back hard. I was using my normal mix of 165-grain rfnp Freedom Munitions and 180-grain Remingtons (bulk pack) all preloaded into a pile of glock oem 13-rd mags which are about 3-1/2 years old, used once a week (40-50 times/year). I'm assuming that the Apex extractor and White Sound HRED will work in my G23; someone please correct me if I'm wrong--I will also ask Apex before buying. My wife's G19 (also gen 4) has only about 500 rounds through it, and it stovepiped several times on her the last time she went to the range (I gave her the limpwrist talk but she says she didn't). I know I didn't, because my pistol career started with several .357 magnums many years ago, and I grab with both hands using counterposing force grip to minimize wobble. My alltime favorite semiauto is a Ruger P944, but it's bigger and heavier than the glock and holds fewer rounds, so its a safe queen and the G23 is my EDC. I don't like having to replace parts on such new guns, and I wonder if the S&W M&P's have the same issues? I'm open to suggestions please. Edit to my post: I just checked my math; at 91 rounds/wk x 40 x 3.5 = over 12,000 rounds through my G23 (!). How time flies! I guess I should consider replacing the RSA already, and maybe all the springs? It's my EDC.

[LittleLebowski]

I have read this entire posting and have registered on P-F this evening BECAUSE my reliable G23 gen 4 assaulted me twice in the face today at the range, ending a run of about 3,000 rounds of almost perfection. If I didn't have my range glasses on, I would probably have had to go to an ER because it came back hard. I was using my normal mix of 165-grain rfnp Freedom Munitions and 180-grain Remingtons (bulk pack) all preloaded into a pile of glock oem 13-rd mags which are about 3-1/2 years old, used once a week (40-50 times/year). I'm assuming that the Apex extractor and White Sound HRED will work in my G23; someone please correct me if I'm wrong--I will also ask Apex before buying. My wife's G19 (also gen 4) has only about 500 rounds through it, and it stovepiped several times on her the last time she went to the range (I gave her the limpwrist talk but she says she didn't). I know I didn't, because my pistol career started with several .357 magnums many years ago, and I grab with both hands using counterposing force grip to minimize wobble. My alltime favorite semiauto is a Ruger P944, but it's bigger and heavier than the glock and holds fewer rounds, so its a safe queen and the G23 is my EDC. I don't like having to replace parts on such new guns, and I wonder if the S&W M&P's have the same issues? I'm open to suggestions please. Edit to my post: I just checked my math; at 91 rounds/wk x 40 x 3.5 = over 12,000 rounds through my G23 (!). How time flies! I guess I should consider replacing the RSA already, and maybe all the springs? It's my EDC.

I'd slap the HRED in right away and check and see if there's a new iteration of the RSA for your pistols. Also, check and make both are on the newer ejector. These are cheap parts and no brainers.

[TexasLarryE]

Thanks, LL--I'll do that! I've been thinking about my wife's problem, and I might try to talk her into carrying a couple of our SP101s with .38 spl rds in her big purse instead of the glock that I bought her--those revolvers "take a beating and keep on ticking" (as John Cameron Swayze used to say in my early hunting days back in the '50s).

[blues]

Thanks, LL--I'll do that! I've been thinking about my wife's problem, and I might try to talk her into carrying a couple of our SP101s with .38 spl rds in her big purse instead of the glock that I bought her--those revolvers "take a beating and keep on ticking" (as John Cameron Swayze used to say in my early hunting days back in the '50s).

"Takes a licking and keeps on ticking". (I guess you aren't old enough to remember. Or old enough to have forgotten. I'm right on the cusp. ;))

[TexasLarryE]

You're right! He was selling Timex watches, and I got one for Christmas when I was 10. Had a 4-10 shotgun then for hunting in local fields; went to 16-ga. then 12-ga. as I got bigger. My first revolver (and carry gun for years) was a 6-shot stainless Ruger Security Six; the SP-101s came much later, then the P944, then the Glocks.

[Gingerkid]

I have not read all 15 pages, but count me as one that got frustrated and traded off the Gen 4 Glock 19 due to BTF issues.

This was a 2015 gun, latest ejector. BTF or brass on top of head, back of shirt, etc. I installed the expensive APEX extractor and the issues persisted. It was my only Glock - which I had sworn off of them about a decade ago - tried to give Glock another shot - and have now sworn off of them again.

Not only that, but I realized the grip angle is truly something you'd have to train for if you are not accustomed to shooting Glocks.

I'm sure they are great for a lot of folks, but not me.

[M2CattleCo]

Two new, late production Gen 3 34s.

Both exhibited very erratic ejection, one had many bolt over base FTFe and FTEj with American Eagle 147 and HST 147.

The one with the failures ended up being the best one. It's running good with the 336 ejector, HRED, Apex extractor

The other ejects pretty acceptably good. It liked a 30274 ejector, HRED, and stock extractor with a light stoning on the top and bottom surfaces. It threw brass on me almost 100% with the Apex extractor.

I did this testing with over 1K rounds and I'm pretty confident that I have them sorted out. It's ridiculous, but if you want to shoot a Glock, it comes with the territory I guess.

[spinmove_]

So I'm not having BTF issues, but I just saw this on LAV's Facespace page. Might be worth trying if you're still having problems?

https://www.facebook.com/LarryVickers/posts/10159189158670416


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[breakingtime91]

So I'm not having BTF issues, but I just saw this on LAV's Facespace page. Might be worth trying if you're still having problems?

https://www.facebook.com/LarryVickers/posts/10159189158670416

Saw this also and respect him as a smith. No BTF here either but find it nice to have someone comment on the issue.
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[Guerrero]

So, should I be grateful that my Gen4 19 hasn't ever had BTF issues?

[JTQ]

So I'm not having BTF issues, but I just saw this on LAV's Facespace page. Might be worth trying if you're still having problems?

https://www.facebook.com/LarryVickers/posts/10159189158670416


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Do you have a translation if you don't do facepalm?



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[VT1032]

So, should I be grateful that my Gen4 19 hasn't ever had BTF issues?

This... I don't know how I keep getting lucky, but I've had an early Gen 4 17, 3x gen 4 19's, 2x 43's, a gen 4 23, a gen 4 22 and a gen 4 26 and haven't had any problems whatsoever. I mean, I get a very occasional brass that comes my way, like once every couple of hundred rounds but nothing insane. I had a gen 3 19 that did have a bit of a BTF problem but even that was like once every 50rnds or so. Not saying the problem doesn't exist, I just don't know how I haven't gotten unlucky yet...

[LittleLebowski]

This... I don't know how I keep getting lucky, but I've had an early Gen 4 17, 3x gen 4 19's, 2x 43's, a gen 4 23, a gen 4 22 and a gen 4 26 and haven't had any problems whatsoever. I mean, I get a very occasional brass that comes my way, like once every couple of hundred rounds but nothing insane. I had a gen 3 19 that did have a bit of a BTF problem but even that was like once every 50rnds or so. Not saying the problem doesn't exist, I just don't know how I haven't gotten unlucky yet...

Your "luck" is almost certainly ammo choice.

[Mitch]

Your "luck" is almost certainly ammo choice.

Can you be more specific on that? Is there something I should be avoiding?


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[VT1032]

Your "luck" is almost certainly ammo choice.

Probably true recently. Most of what I've shot through my most recent pair has been 147gr lawman with a bit of 147 HST thrown in, but the earlier 2 19's (including the problematic gen 3), the 17 and the 26, as well as both .40's were all fed a steady diet of shit tula steel case. That said, while crappy, that tula stuff does seem fairly stout, so I wonder if it's running at higher pressures then say WWB 115gr or something like that.

[LittleLebowski]

Can you be more specific on that? Is there something I should be avoiding?


Generally; the weaker the ammo, the weaker and more erratic the ejection.

[JTQ]

I don't know if this is what LL is talking about, but notice Hickok45 shooting these Gen 4 guns. The G34 cases often just barely get out of the gun. The G35 tosses those empties out with authority. Lightweight, 9mm range ammo would probably give more problems than more powerful 9mm rounds, and the .40 ammo would probably have fewer problems.

G34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unh_RoCkjz8

G35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwNiTLk91X4

[LittleLebowski]

I don't know if this is what LL is talking about, but notice Hickok45 shooting these Gen 4 guns. The G34 cases often just barely get out of the gun. The G35 tosses those empties out with authority. Lightweight, 9mm range ammo would probably give more problems than more powerful 9mm rounds, and the .40 ammo would probably have fewer problems.


You are correct, that is what I am talking about.

[RoyGBiv]

Gen 4 G19 inbound later today.. Thanks for the OP/thread LL

[CS Tactical]

This... I don't know how I keep getting lucky, but I've had an early Gen 4 17, 3x gen 4 19's, 2x 43's, a gen 4 23, a gen 4 22 and a gen 4 26 and haven't had any problems whatsoever. I mean, I get a very occasional brass that comes my way, like once every couple of hundred rounds but nothing insane. I had a gen 3 19 that did have a bit of a BTF problem but even that was like once every 50rnds or so. Not saying the problem doesn't exist, I just don't know how I haven't gotten unlucky yet...



I've owned over 15 Glocks with more than half being Gen 4's, I've had one with serious brass to the face and ended up being one of Apex's beta testers for their Glock extractor. AFAIR, mine was the only one that wasn't completely cured from the extractor and I occasionally had one launch over my head. I've heard of some other guns that needed the ejection port lowered but only a handful.

[I922sParkCir]

I wish I found this earlier!

These steps worked for me on my 2011 Blue Label Gen 4 Glock 34. The 34 was completely unreliable due to constant ejection issues. I replaced the RSA with no change. Replaced every spring, and trigger housing to the latest ejector with seemingly zero effect.

I installed the Apex extractor and the gun was significantly more reliable. It still had weak ejection; cases would just barely dribble out. With weaker ammo, or smaller shooters it would still have the occasional failure to eject.

I installed White Sound HRED and instantly had a perfectly working gun. Brass now ejected into a neat pile about 5' at 4'o clock.

This was my first Glock and it's nice for it to start acting like one.

[breakingtime91]

I wish I found this earlier!

These steps worked for me on my 2011 Blue Label Gen 4 Glock 34. The 34 was completely unreliable due to constant ejection issues. I replaced the RSA with no change. Replaced every spring, and trigger housing to the latest ejector with seemingly zero effect.

I installed the Apex extractor and the gun was significantly more reliable. It still had weak ejection; cases would just barely dribble out. With weaker ammo, or smaller shooters it would still have the occasional failure to eject.

I installed White Sound HRED and instantly had a perfectly working gun. Brass now ejected into a neat pile about 5' at 4'o clock.

This was my first Glock and it's nice for it to start acting like one.

Crappy you had to do it (fix your shit glock) but this mirrors pretty much from what I have seen. Usually the hred and apex solves the issue.

[I922sParkCir]

Crappy you had to do it (fix your shit glock) but this mirrors pretty much from what I have seen. Usually the hred and apex solves the issue.

It is an issue that drastically hurt Glock's reputation. We now know that Glock will not be straight forward about problems in their guns, and feign ignorance when the issues are brought up.

I just bought another Glock (3rd Gen 20) a month ago, but went into it knowing that they can make guns that require the aftermarket right out of the box.

[martin_j001]

I've gotten to the point where the HRED just automatically goes into my Glocks. I just recently picked up a pair of Apex extractors, and am now running those as well. Both my gen 4 19 and 34 eject well, even for a fairly weak load (125gr Blue Bullet over 3.7gr Titegroup), although I'm considering making my reloads a little more powerful to more closely mimic the 124gr HST I carry.

[Lynskey]

LL,

Thanks for the information. Good sticky thread.

When I bought two Gen4 Model 19s in 2012 my years long run with Glocks had been without issue. I got a rude awakening from the first magazine full I shot through each of those two gun. Severe brass to the face. Severe meaning at least 6-8 hot empties bouncing off my forehead and shooting glasses for each magazine I shot through them. Ammo choice didn't matter except the hotter NATO and self defense loads just hit my face a little harder.

Up to that time I never read the Glock specific forums but went there looking for information about the BTF problem. My Glocks had all the latest parts. Several posters who were experiencing the same problems as me sent their G19s back to Glock only to have them returned with a note saying all the parts were up to date. And the BTF behavior was still the same.

Tried a lot of stuff with my two guns and finally put in the APEX extractor kit. Instant fix for both guns.

At the time I installed the APEX kit I had over 1600 rounds combined through the two 19s. The only reason I kept them was that I had a fair sized investment in many magazines, holsters and expensive sight pusher from previous generation Model 19s.

Those two guns caused me more frustration and time than any gun of any kind that I have ever owned. I don't read much about BTF in Glocks anymore so I guess the factory finally figured out what was wrong.

Again, thanks for the information.

[lwt16]

Bought a Gen 3 26 last month and I am only having issues (double feed once every 200 rounds) with Federal aluminum 115 grain. Cases ejected all over the place....some to the 10 o'clock.......

Brass and nickel 115 runs like a champ.

Anyway....

Bought the new style ejector and that helped significantly except for that last round. That one would consistently go to the six o clock but well over my noggin.

Polished the OEM extractor and tuned that little shelf just a mm or so and that seemed to help a whole lot. I ran about 100 rounds of 124 grain American Eagle yesterday and I got a nice pile of brass to the four o'clock .......except for that last round. Six o'clock on that one and well over my noggin.

Federal 147 HSTs are great in it now and that is my carry load.

I do have a HRED and a plunger spring from that same bunch (White Sound defense) and I suspect that the plunger spring alone (with the ejector upgrade as well as the extractor polish/tune) is going to put me in the money. Seems like the extractor just needs a little extra push to tug that last case out of the way without the benefit of a round in the magazine.

If not, I'll try the HRED and go from there. Trying to stick as close to OEM as possible.

But this thread sticky has been a great resource.

[ralph]

Anybody have any suggestions for a gen 3, g21 that likes to fling brass at your forehead? This pistol was a LEOtrade in that showed zero use, I mean it looks new inside and out. It came with Glock night sights that are still good (gun was made in 2010 according to the case in the bag,) also came with 3 mags. However it does fling brass back to my head, to the left, right, forward, and straight up, Since there is'nt a Apex extractor for the 21, I'm open to suggestions, I'd really like to hang on to the 21 as it seems quite accurate, and if I can get it to eject cases properly I'd be thrilled, if I can't I'll clean it up, toss it in the back of the safe, and use it either as trading fodder, or dump it off at a gun show, considering what I paid for it ($325 OTD) I figure I could easily sell it, and make money on it..

[Mjolnir]

Anybody have any suggestions for a gen 3, g21 that likes to fling brass at your forehead? This pistol was a LEOtrade in that showed zero use, I mean it looks new inside and out. It came with Glock night sights that are still good (gun was made in 2010 according to the case in the bag,) also came with 3 mags. However it does fling brass back to my head, to the left, right, forward, and straight up, Since there is'nt a Apex extractor for the 21, I'm open to suggestions, I'd really like to hang on to the 21 as it seems quite accurate, and if I can get it to eject cases properly I'd be thrilled, if I can't I'll clean it up, toss it in the back of the safe, and use it either as trading fodder, or dump it off at a gun show, considering what I paid for it ($325 OTD) I figure I could easily sell it, and make money on it..

Increase the tension of the Extractor by using an Apex spring. They don't advertise it by itself but you could ask.

I have a 10mm that occasionally will send one straight into my face when shooting it at speed.

Well, the last thing one would need is a casing into the eye as a boar or bear was heading my way with bad intentions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nephrology]

Anybody have any suggestions for a gen 3, g21 that likes to fling brass at your forehead? This pistol was a LEOtrade in that showed zero use, I mean it looks new inside and out. It came with Glock night sights that are still good (gun was made in 2010 according to the case in the bag,) also came with 3 mags. However it does fling brass back to my head, to the left, right, forward, and straight up, Since there is'nt a Apex extractor for the 21, I'm open to suggestions, I'd really like to hang on to the 21 as it seems quite accurate, and if I can get it to eject cases properly I'd be thrilled, if I can't I'll clean it up, toss it in the back of the safe, and use it either as trading fodder, or dump it off at a gun show, considering what I paid for it ($325 OTD) I figure I could easily sell it, and make money on it..

Start by replacing the recoil spring, before you do anything else.

[Leroy]

I bought a late Gen3 G26 about 2 years ago and it has never had reliable ejection. Out of the box it would dribble ammo onto my wrist and stovepipe fairly often. Installed an Apex extractor and it got better but was still poor. Tried installing an HRED and the longer extractor bearing, both made extractor tension to high preventing feeding.

The pistol sat around for a year or so. Every once and awhile I would shoot it, it would fail to eject and back in the safe.

I pulled a G17 magazine spring out and installed it in the G26 mag. Weak hand limp wrist shooting resulted in 2.5 foot high and 2 foot to the right ejection. The last round went high over my head. Mags still loaded to 10 rounds. Huge ejection improvement. This could be a last ditch effort for some problematic guns.

[Bucky]

Late to the party. Interesting read. I’m greatful my G19 G4 as been issue free (probably at 3-4K). Interesting to read a couple had issues into the higher round counts. Guess I’ll keep an eye on it.

I sure wish I could shoot my P2000 as well as my G19. I swear, a strategically placed bucket, and I could catch 80% of my brass, at a perfect 45° trajectory.

[Gandalf]

Guess I'm lucky, all my pistols (Glocks included) run as they should assuming I do my part, and feed them good ammunition.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!

[Wonder9]

Picked up a new "factory" Cerakote Gen4 G19 that was made in 2016 and came with 30274 ejector installed. Didn't have long at the range, so only a box 147 HSTs and 2 boxes of PPU 9mm NATO. Ejection was pretty good at 4-5 o' clock with 3 BTF from the PPU and 1 from the HST. Later after cleaning, checked extractor tension which was weak and ejection was very weak with running the slide with dummy rounds almost falling out with no consistency.

I ordered a 47021 ejector before going down the Apex/Suarez and HRED route. Just by running the slide with dummy rounds ejection is now brisk and consistent. Won't be able to get back to the range until this weekend, but the 47021 ejector made a significant difference just running the slide. Have a bunch of 9mm NATO and WWB/FedAL powderpuff loads to check if the 47021 actually fixes ejection before adding an aftermarket extractor.

[Wonder9]

47021 was installed in the G4 G19 with stock extractor. Ran 200 rounds of PPU 9mmNATO with consistent ejection (albeit weak). Shot a box of Blazer Brass for a weak load test and had 2 BTF.

Second test was a new 19x that came with a 47021 installed from factory. I shot 250 rounds of Winchester 9mmNATO with excellent ejection at 4-5 o' clock. I also shot 100 rounds of Federal AL case 9mm for a weak load test. Ejection went more to dribbling out at 3-4 o' clock, 1 BTF, and 1 BTShoulder. This 19x does not have the new breechface cut, but overall ejection was good enough that I'll use the OEM extractor to see what happens at higher round counts.

[10mmfanboy]

I installed the 47021 ejectors on two gen 4 19 and a gen 4 g26. I have been getting excellent ejection out of all 3. I get a good 5' ejection out of them at about a 3:30 angle. Only thing I do notice is the last round in the magazine usually ejects softly out of the pistols every single time. The brass lands practically at my foot on the last round. Makes me think that a glock uses the next round in the magazine to do most of the ejection or something. Other than that it was well worth $21 to improve ejection on 3 pistols.

[JAH 3rd]

In December of last year, I bought a new Glock 17 gen 5. My initial two outings was with Federal 115 fmj and Federal HST 147 jhp. The pistol was 100% in all areas, but the ejection seemed a bit weak based on distance of ejected cases. Maybe ejected 2 feet or so. And like 10mm, the last round was weakest of all when ejected. So I updated with the same ejector as mentioned by 10mm. Heck, for the price, even if didn't improve ejection, I wouldn't be out much. So back to the range with the previous mentioned rounds. The 115 fmj ejected about the same. The HST ejected about 4 feet. Both were in the 3:30 area of ejection. Next I added Winchester NATO 124 fmj. That ammo ejected about 5 feet, again around 3:30.

Obviously all three rounds have different ejection characteristics due to their loadings. And it is difficult to track ejecting spent shells in real time. I came away with the (subjective) feeling that with the HST and NATO loads had more of an arc to their ejection. Once again, as subjective feeling. Hopefully the next time I am at the range I can get someone else to shoot the 17 so I can observe ejection performance.

As far as the last round, it didn't eject as strongly as the others. Perhaps it is the nature of the beast. The packaging shows this part is for the 19X. This ejector comes with the trigger mechanism assembly #47208. Just pull out the old mechanism and install the 47208. This is a gen 5 assembly. For other Glocks you would swap out the ejector itself.

[JTQ]

Obviously all three rounds have different ejection characteristics due to their loadings. And it is difficult to track ejecting spent shells in real time. I came away with the (subjective) feeling that with the HST and NATO loads had more of an arc to their ejection. Once again, as subjective feeling. Hopefully the next time I am at the range I can get someone else to shoot the 17 so I can observe ejection performance.

Mrgunsngear with a Gen 5 G17 testing ejection from about 3:40 to the 5:15 mark


https://youtu.be/2nWIx53xZmc

[10mmfanboy]

In December of last year, I bought a new Glock 17 gen 5. My initial two outings was with Federal 115 fmj and Federal HST 147 jhp. The pistol was 100% in all areas, but the ejection seemed a bit weak based on distance of ejected cases. Maybe ejected 2 feet or so. And like 10mm, the last round was weakest of all when ejected. So I updated with the same ejector as mentioned by 10mm. Heck, for the price, even if didn't improve ejection, I wouldn't be out much. So back to the range with the previous mentioned rounds. The 115 fmj ejected about the same. The HST ejected about 4 feet. Both were in the 3:30 area of ejection. Next I added Winchester NATO 124 fmj. That ammo ejected about 5 feet, again around 3:30.

Obviously all three rounds have different ejection characteristics due to their loadings. And it is difficult to track ejecting spent shells in real time. I came away with the (subjective) feeling that with the HST and NATO loads had more of an arc to their ejection. Once again, as subjective feeling. Hopefully the next time I am at the range I can get someone else to shoot the 17 so I can observe ejection performance.

As far as the last round, it didn't eject as strongly as the others. Perhaps it is the nature of the beast. The packaging shows this part is for the 19X. This ejector comes with the trigger mechanism assembly #47208. Just pull out the old mechanism and install the 47208. This is a gen 5 assembly. For other Glocks you would swap out the ejector itself.
Good points! I forgot to mention that other than a box of critical duty through each pistol, I was shooting my 124 gn hp from RMR bullets, with 4.4 gn of win 231. They are technically maxed out but still in SAMI spec. It is definitely on the hotter side. That is pretty much all I shoot through my glocks. To me the Gen 4 seemed more geared towards 40 s&w , as I never had weak ejection with my .40's I think the gen 4 are sprung much more stiff for that caliber. But even with shooting the same hand loads previously, before I installed the gen 5 ejector, my ejection seemed like it went more straight out, meaning more up vertically at 12:00. That is why I think they didn't seem to eject very far because the brass went more straight up than with the gen 5 ejector. More of a gradual arc with the new ejector.

[SkiDevil]

Late last year, I purchased a new in the box Glock 17 Gen 3 (prefer the older models) with factory night-sights. The Brass to face was pretty bad when firing standard 115 fmj CCI Blazer, and Fiocchi. There was brass hitting my glasses, forehead, ejecting over my shoulder, and even to the front of the gun. So, I tried hotter ammo 124gr jhp Federal with no difference. Ordered the updated Glock ejector, APEX extractor, and HERD assembly after disassembling and polishing the factory extractor with no real difference in the ejection pattern. Because l couldn't locate one vendor with all three parts, there was a delay in receiving all of the required parts.

First, I received the Glock 30274 ejector and installed the part and went to the range. A slight improvement. However, the pistol was still ejecting on the weak side with around a dozen brass to face or overhead pattern. I tried different types of ammunition, no joy. Then a few weaks later, I received my APEX extractor with a heavier firing pin spring. I installed both and finally had a strong ejection pattern and no brass to face after about 300 rounds of various brands of ammunition. The HERD part showed up a couple of weeks ago, and even though the pistol is working well, I am still going to install the part and see if the ejection pattern varies from just the new ejector and extractor.

One thing I did learn from an internet posting was that the pistol could easily be tested by loading one round, then removing the magazine, and firing the pistol. If the brass falls through the grip of the pistol, then you most definitely have an ejector and or extraction problem.

Thank you LL, a Very useful thread.

P.S. i haven't purchased a new Glock in a few years. So, spending another $90 on parts (including shipping fees) is disappointing. Glock should have corrected the problem from the get go IMO. I didn't bother sending it to them because of the shipping costs and inconsistent reports of their CS in addressing the problem.

[Glockman9mm]

I’ve installed the 47021 ejectors on 3 glocks now. The first 2 were Gen. 3 guns from 2008/9 that never gave me BTF but sprinkled brass all over the place with the 336 ejectors. Great improvement on both guns. The G17 throws 124 gold dots 10 feet to my right. The G26 throws everything directly to my right as well.

The third pistol is a 2020 made USA G19.4. I only fired 4 mags through the gun and most of the rounds went right but had one hit the top of my head and had some others go left and straight up. I had a 47021 in the parts bin so installed it and have since put 300 rounds through it. Have not had anymore hit my head. Most rounds run directly to my right from 1 to 8 feet. Have a few go to 5 o’clock and the last round of mag often goes left. Overall happy with it so far. My 2012 made G19.4 ejects perfectly with the original 30274 ejector as does a G19.3 from 2009 which I put one in.

[Glockman9mm]

Shot the 2020 G19.4 some more today. Ejection is close to perfect now, even the last round in mag. Guess the parts are breaking in. 570 rounds through it now.