Looking for advice on a .45ACP auto

[markc1963]

I am new to this site. I would like to get some opinions on the most accurate as well as dependable overall out of the box 45 semi auto would be. I am looking to spend under 2000. I would appreciate any information that some of your time and effort has produced as it will help me in this decision. thanks


Mark

[TheNewbie]

Have you read about the late Todd Green's endurance test of the HK45?

It would help if you let us know what the purpose you will be using the firearm for too.

[warpedcamshaft]

I like the HK45. I don't have one now, but I've shot them plenty and they are pretty fantastic.

[Chance]

If you're new to shooting, I would recommend taking a look at this article (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4337-Service-Caliber-Handgun-Duty-and-Self-Defense-Ammo)on the terminal ballistics of service caliber handguns. The .45 is not the man slayer it's oft portrayed to be.

That aside, this forum has an affinity for HK. Take a look at either the HK45 or the USP in .45.

[1slow]

For what it is worth.
This assumes you want a .45 auto.

I have HK45s, HK45 Tactical, HK45 Compact Tactical, HK USP 45, HK USP Tactical 45.
I have Glock 21s, 30s. Shot these for years.
I have had 1911s, Wilson, Ed Brown, several Les Baers. Shot 1911s for years. Went through Col. Cooper's in 1982 with a 1911.

If I wanted a match accurate .45 auto that I would stake my life on I would go with HK45 series or HK USP 45 series. Personally I most like the HK45 full size and the full size HK USP Tactical 45.
USP 45 is a 12 round magazine gun that fits my XL bony hands well. HK45 is a 10 round magazine pistol with a picatinny rail that has a smaller grip circumference.
I really like the USP Tactical 45 with its match grade trigger.

My experience is that match accurate 1911s are finicky and nothing I want in a fight. YMMV.
I had great experiences with GL21s, GL30s, 10,000 rounds yearly for 15 + years. They are accurate enough but not like the HKs.

Maybe nyeti will contribute as he has had lots of time with the HKs.
GJM also has experience with the USP45.

[JSGlock34]

Have you read about the late Todd Green's endurance test of the HK45?

It would help if you let us know what the purpose you will be using the firearm for too.

Good recommendation here. Here are some links to get you started...

Pistol-Training.com: HK45 Endurance Test: Week One (http://pistol-training.com/archives/2741)
Pistol-Training.com: HK45 Interview with Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers (http://pistol-training.com/articles/hk45-interview-with-ken-hackathorn-and-larry-vickers)

As is already evident, I think the HK45 is going to be the consensus choice around these parts.

[Sterling Archer]

Not knowing what you want to use it for makes it tough, but... I think everyone has pretty well covered the big double stack .45s, which have their place. I had a HK USP 45 that was a great gun but too big for me to grip and reach the trigger properly. Very accurate gun if I was shooting from a rest but in my hands, not so much. When it comes to .45's I need to go single stack and my preference is the 1911.

I've had more problems with polymer guns than I ever have with a 1911, which to be fair I've owned more polymer than 1911s. I've never found 1911s to be ammo picky as I always buy quality ammo, quality guns, and take great care of them. Highly accurate, fantastic triggers, and just a pleasure to shoot. In the $1,500 - $2,000 range there are some great options from Dan Wesson, Springfield Armory, and Les Baer.

If you decide they're for you, great. If not, they're worth at least looking at and fondling.

[1911Nut]

My experience with high end 1911's has been different than a couple of previous posts addressing your question. Using your budget as a guideline, I would pick the Dan Wesson Valor as the pistol of choice. Another option might be a CZ97 that has been modified by the CZ Custom Shop (still within your described budget guideline).

[StraitR]

As is already evident, I think the HK45 is going to be the consensus choice around these parts.

Agreed.

I've had plenty of 1911's including WC, as well as both S&W MP45 and MP45c, but if I was in the market for another ashtray launcher, I'd go with the HK45c based on how it feels in my hand versus the full-size HK45.

[ReverendMeat]

As is already evident, I think the HK45 is going to be the consensus choice around these parts.

Hell, I don't even particularly like the guns but that's my recommendation too.

Unless OP is looking for a 1911, in which case for under 2k I'd look at a Dan Wesson Valor or Specialist.

ETA: Also I am a fan of the SIG P220 though I believe there's some folks here who'd have different opinions on that.

[HopetonBrown]

Glock 30S, Glock 41, Springfield Loaded, all well under $1k. I'd just ask myself what the increased cost of ammo and decreased capacity was gonna get me.

[okie john]

I am new to this site. I would like to get some opinions on the most accurate as well as dependable overall out of the box 45 semi auto would be. I am looking to spend under 2000. I would appreciate any information that some of your time and effort has produced as it will help me in this decision.

I'd say one of the HKs. Opinions will vary on which one, but HK pistols tend to be ultra-reliable tack drivers right out of the box.

What are you going to do with it? Any particular reason you've decided on a 45?


Okie John

[1slow]

I had less trouble with GL21s, GL30s, HK45, Hk USP 45 than tight 1911s by a huge margin. Production Series 70 Colts with FMJ were mostly reliable.

I want a pistol I can buy 3+ of, and 30 magazines for. It must all work together. BTDT with multiple GL21s, GL30s, HK 45s, HK USP 45s. No issues.

1911s did not give me this experience. This is sad because a 1911 still feels best in my hand. I have not carried a 1911 as a CCW since 1990. Carried Glocks, HKs.

My 1911 experience was mainly Colt Series 70 1973-1990. Also had Springfield armory, Kimbers(never again) Later I got into high line 1911s.

[Jay Cunningham]

I am new to this site. I would like to get some opinions on the most accurate as well as dependable overall out of the box 45 semi auto would be. I am looking to spend under 2000. I would appreciate any information that some of your time and effort has produced as it will help me in this decision. thanks


Mark

Yikes.

HK45 Compact is a nice option IMO.

[Sero Sed Serio]

I'd say one of the HKs. Opinions will vary on which one, but HK pistols tend to be ultra-reliable tack drivers right out of the box.

What are you going to do with it? Any particular reason you've decided on a 45?


Okie John

First, welcome to Pistol-Forum!

Two very important questions here. P-F does have an affinity for HK, but an even stronger affinity for the concept of "mission drives gear." An HK USP Elite .45 is a fantastic pistol, until you're trying to pocket carry it with a tucked-in shirt in an NPE. Think of guns like shoes, where some are very good for very specialized purposes, and very bad at others (don't run marathons in swim fins).

Also, unless you have a lot of .45 stocked up or get it free from work like some lucky people do, I'd urge you to at least consider other calibers--I don't know your experience, but I usually tell people with caliber questions to default to the lower recoil, lower cost 9mm unless they have a specific reason to go with something else (like a highway patrol officer that has a high likelihood of having to shoot through glass/car bodies).

As out-of the box .45s go, my first choice would probably be a HK 45c, but that's because I want a concealable weapon with a hammer for appendix reholstering, and it is very similar to the 9mm P2000 I carry. If you give us a little more about what you're looking for, we can give you some suggestions that are more specific to your individual needs.

[HCM]

Hell, I don't even particularly like the guns but that's my recommendation too.

Unless OP is looking for a 1911, in which case for under 2k I'd look at a Dan Wesson Valor or Specialist.

ETA: Also I am a fan of the SIG P220 though I believe there's some folks here who'd have different opinions on that.

I like the P220 and carried one as a duty gun many years ago but capacity is limited and it is less durable and reliable than the SIG 226/228/229. The 227 seems to be doing well and increases capacity.

For a non 1911 .45 I would recommend, in order:

HK USP/ HK 45 and variants of these
S$W M&P 45 / M&P 45C
Glock 21 gen 4 / Glock 30S
SIG 227

For a sub 2k 1911:
Dan Wesson. Valor
Springfield TRP
Used Les Baer

[LittleLebowski]

Title edited and I'd look at an M&P45. The HK is definitely more reliable, more expensive, and has a worse trigger.

[spinmove_]

Title edited and I'd look at an M&P45. The HK is definitely more reliable, more expensive, and has a worse trigger.

I was wondering when someone was going to chime in suggesting an M&P45. I've never shot an HK45 or USP .45, however given the praise and track record from people here, I'd be highly surprised if it was a bad choice. I have, however, had some trigger time behind an M&P45. As much as I have a love/hate relationship with M&P9s, I have to say that the M&P45 is high on my list of "wants" as far as pistols go.

[LittleLebowski]

I was wondering when someone was going to chime in suggesting an M&P45. I've never shot an HK45 or USP .45, however given the praise and track record from people here, I'd be highly surprised if it was a bad choice. I have, however, had some trigger time behind an M&P45. As much as I have a love/hate relationship with M&P9s, I have to say that the M&P45 is high on my list of "wants" as far as pistols go.

One of our SMEs; DoGKR, speaks highly of M&P45s (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12716-M-amp-P-45-Thoughts-for-a-Glock-shooter&p=233005&viewfull=1#post233005).

Personally, I cannot justify the 1/3 cost differential between 9mm and .45ACP but if it were me, I'd be looking hard at the M&P45 and perhaps the new Glock 41 (http://www.glockmeister.com/GLOCK-41-Gen-4/productinfo/G41GEN4/), the same pistol one of our SMEs used to win the US Carbine Championship (Heavy Division) (https://www.facebook.com/USCarbineAssociation/photos/a.516363278407401.1073741828.476282915748771/890313611012364/?type=1&theater).

[1986s4]

I had a HK USP .45c, it was very accurate but unreliable, I do considerate it an outlier and I have had several HKs since that were faultlessly reliable. The best .45 I've ever had was a STI Ranger II, reliable with every mag I had, smooth in operation and accurate. I sold it when it just became to expensive to shoot a lot of .45 auto.

[1slow]

When I was at the 2016 Tactical Conference, one of the instructors I talked to said he had trouble with M&P 45 magazine springs losing their tension and he had needed to replace them.

[1slow]

Title edited and I'd look at an M&P45. The HK is definitely more reliable, more expensive, and has a worse trigger.

Which mode of HK trigger are you comparing to ?
HK DA is very heavy, SA can be OK (USP series, HK45 series) to great (USPT).

[spinmove_]

When I was at the 2016 Tactical Conference, one of the instructors I talked to said he had trouble with M&P 45 magazine springs losing their tension and he had needed to replace them.

Looks like Wolff makes replacement magazine springs for a pretty reasonable price. I'd say that's a decent fix to that problem.

https://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/SMITH%20%26%20WESSON/M%26P%20SERIES%20-%20.45ACP/cID1/mID58/dID419

[Hambo]

I had a HK USP .45c, it was very accurate but unreliable, I do considerate it an outlier and I have had several HKs since that were faultlessly reliable.

I had one briefly and while it functioned just fine, it seemed like the same German that designed the MP5 selector worked on the USPc. I wanted to take a belt sander to the frame just behind the safety.

For $2K or less, I'd buy one of the new Colt 1911s. If I wanted a cheaper gun I'd try an M&P.

[HCM]

When I was at the 2016 Tactical Conference, one of the instructors I talked to said he had trouble with M&P 45 magazine springs losing their tension and he had needed to replace them.

S&W had one large batch of mags with bad springs. S&W replaced the Springs free of charge.

There have been two spring revisions, originals were orange, followed by purple, latest ones are green and are good to go. This is the only issue I've ever heard of with the M&P 45.

[StraitR]

FWIW, my M&P45's (one FS, one compact) were some of the most accurate 45's I've ever shot. Triggers were also much better than my pair of M&P 9's (one FS, one compact) Sample of two.

[Stumpnav]

I've got an XD45 that I really like. The grip feels pretty close to a 1911.

I have never shot one, but I like the feel of the FN45. same goes for the new Ruger American.

But...thr hands down winner in the 45 realm is the 1911. As others have said the Dan Wesson or one of the upper Springfields are king of the sub 2Ks.

[HCM]

I've got an XD45 that I really like. The grip feels pretty close to a 1911.

I have never shot one, but I like the feel of the FN45. same goes for the new Ruger American.

But...thr hands down winner in the 45 realm is the 1911. As others have said the Dan Wesson or one of the upper Springfields are king of the sub 2Ks.

The FN45 feels OK if you have XL/XXL hands which I do but for most people it's kind of big. Plus it's had some weird reliability issues related to frame flexing and failure to fire when it heats up. For similar money I would buy another HK USP 45 tactical - like the one I never should have sold .....

[1slow]

I came recently to shooting the HK USP 45 Tactical and love it. Match accurate, great trigger, .45 Super strong, 12 round magazine. All it needs is a picatinny rail and GG&G or Surefire make adapters.
If you have XL hands it is great. With my forearm centered behind the gun, my finger joints bend exactly at the front corners on both sides of the frame.

[JonInWA]

It depends. As others have stated, situational use/environments can be a huge steering factor in selection. Probably the highest quality (combining component and manufacturing quality) would be an HK; commonly mentioned ones are the HK45, HK45C, or the USP45.

Gen 3 and Gen 4 Glocks tend to play to good reviews, and are hands-down the easiest to maintain and detail disassemble/reassemble. Their accuracy also tends to be quite good; my personal Gen 3 "big butt" G21 has had thousands of rounds through it with absolutely zero malfunctions. The girth of the receiver does, however, make it a bit more difficult for me to shoot as well or as fast as my 9mm Glocks, despite its stellar accuracy. I've added Warren/Sevigny Carry sights, and slimmed down the girth a bit by removing the segment of mountain bike inner tube that I've run on it for years; we'll see.

1911s are a beast of another feather (to fearlessly mix two metaphors); they can require some expert setting up and more vetting and maintenance. The platform is rewarding, but arguably more demanding than others. In a sub-$2K 1911, I'd take a hard look at some of Colt's current offerings, and a very nice value proposition in the 1911 word seems to be inherent to Ruger's 1911s. In a 1911, I strongly counsel choosing a traditional Government platform, with a traditional bushing barrel, at east to start-they were what John Browning designed, and I think will have the best chance for out-of-the-box reliability.

Best, Jon

[Jeep]

I agree that the current Colt 1911's seem to work very well. Alternatively I know a number of people who have been very fond of their M&P45's.

Finally you could go to a total alternative and get a Smith & Wesson 625 revolver to use with moon clips. Very accurate and a lot of fun.

[Guinnessman]

In honor of Todd, I suggest you read the entire HK45 test! If you have the money, that is where I would start.

Springfield makes a great 1911, and the Springfield Loaded would be a great option if you want a 1911 under a grand. Add Colt to that category as well.

The Springfield TRP, Dan Wesson, or Les Baer are some great options under $2000. For a .45 I would personally buy a 1911 over a HK because of the aftermarket parts availability and easier maintenance. Disclaimer: I consider myself a hardcore HK koolie , but love a good 1911.

Good luck in your search.

[DocGKR]

Unless you are given pallet loads of free .45 Auto ammo, then get a 9 mm pistol.

Having said that, the M&P45's I've used are nearly as accurate as my very expensive custom 1911's, but are about as cheap to purchase and easy to work on as my Glocks. HK45's are another good option, but cost more, are harder to work on, and don't have as many accessories readily available.

[Frank R]

Take a look at the Sig P320 45.

[Hauptmann]

Unless you are given pallet loads of free .45 Auto ammo, then get a 9 mm pistol.

Having said that, the M&P45's I've used are nearly as accurate as my very expensive custom 1911's, but are about as cheap to purchase and easy to work on as my Glocks. HK45's are another good option, but cost more, are harder to work on, and don't have as many accessories readily available.

Doc, any thoughts on the Sig P227?

[vcdgrips]

If 45 acp is really driving the train, for 2k. I would get at least one and perhaps a brace of M&P 45s with a bunch of APEX goodness and still have money left over for ammo and/or a class.

[Exiledviking]

For those of us behind the iron curtain in California, is the HK45 worth the ~$400 premium over a USP 45?
FWIW, the USP 45 fits my hands pretty well.

[OlongJohnson]

There is some discussion in GJM's USP thread on that point. Some people like the HK45, some like the USP45.

[psalms144.1]

For those of us behind the iron curtain in California, is the HK45 worth the ~$400 premium over a USP 45?
FWIW, the USP 45 fits my hands pretty well.Is mounting a WML on the factory rail a huge issue for you? If so, then you need the HK45. If not, I'd get the USP45, and have a match-LEM hybrid installed.

[LockedBreech]

My two .45s are a P220R and a Colt O1091 Government Stainless Series 80 1911.

Both are absolutely fantastic. Both have given me 0 stoppages and are built very well.

That said, I am low round-count compared to most on this forum. About 1,000 rounds per gun, which is low but I dare say a decent run with no stoppages. I have no doubt that the answers the SMEs here give (HK 45 and M&P 45) are the best options on the market in terms on longevity. But I do really, really like my 220.

[HCM]

For those of us behind the iron curtain in California, is the HK45 worth the ~$400 premium over a USP 45?
FWIW, the USP 45 fits my hands pretty well.

No. USP45 is good to go as long as your hands are big enough to run it.

HK45 is a grea gun but I'm guessing it is not on the CA roster ?

[HCM]

Is mounting a WML on the factory rail a huge issue for you? If so, then you need the HK45. If not, I'd get the USP45, and have a match-LEM hybrid installed.

Or spend $100 on a GG&G adaption and some custom kydex for your USP 45 with WML.

[Exiledviking]

No. USP45 is good to go as long as your hands are big enough to run it.

HK45 is a grea gun but I'm guessing it is not on the CA roster ?
It is, unfortunately, not on the "Safe Handgun Roster". The communists in Sacramento are working one step at a time to ensure that only the criminals and the rich and connected have firearms. Can't have the peasants armed...

[SteveB]

Unless you are given pallet loads of free .45 Auto ammo, then get a 9 mm pistol.

Having said that, the M&P45's I've used are nearly as accurate as my very expensive custom 1911's, but are about as cheap to purchase and easy to work on as my Glocks. HK45's are another good option, but cost more, are harder to work on, and don't have as many accessories readily available.

I strongly agree with this. I've had a series of M&P45's; full-size, midsize, and compact. They have all been super accurate, dependable guns. As stated above, they are easy to work on with excellent APEX parts and aftermarket sights available. They fit medium-sized hands way better than the big Glocks, and are much less expensive than HK's (not just the guns but mags).

[Dagga Boy]

If there is one thing HK does exceptionally well, it's the .45 ACP service pistol. I have a lot of experience with .45's in a issue LE role, and the HK's have been stellar in both the accuracy and reliability areas. That is with a background of watching literally millions of rounds going out of them, and maintaining them. One only needs to look back to Todd Green's experience with the HK 45 as a good indicator. Yes...they are more expensive and parts are tougher. No, you don't need a match barrel or aftermarket parts. My bedside gun is an HK45 with a X300U.....this should say something. They also run better than anything else I have seen with high performance +P .45 ACP loads that are exceptional performers.

1911's....America, you should have at least one and know how to shoot it...just because.

M&P 45.....only M&P I would consider owning. If have shot them well, but do not have enough faith in them to leave an HK for one.

Sig's......if it doesn't say "W.Germany" on the gun, I have a bitter taste in my mouth. With that said, they "can" make a great gun.

Glocks.....Lord have I tried. They simply do not fit me. Experience has been that they are good until they break.

[OlongJohnson]

It is, unfortunately, not on the "Safe Handgun Roster". The communists in Sacramento are working one step at a time to ensure that only the criminals and the rich and connected have firearms. Can't have the peasants armed...

Think about the demographic requirements for a person to be affected by the magazine possession ban, and it will be obvious that the real intent is to make more people likely to vote Republican decide to live in another state. If that set of demographics was acquired by birth or faith, it would be considered ethnic cleansing.

[/derailment]

[spinmove_]

If there is one thing HK does exceptionally well, it's the .45 ACP service pistol. I have a lot of experience with .45's in a issue LE role, and the HK's have been stellar in both the accuracy and reliability areas. That is with a background of watching literally millions of rounds going out of them, and maintaining them. One only needs to look back to Todd Green's experience with the HK 45 as a good indicator. Yes...they are more expensive and parts are tougher. No, you don't need a match barrel or aftermarket parts. My bedside gun is an HK45 with a X300U.....this should say something. They also run better than anything else I have seen with high performance +P .45 ACP loads that are exceptional performers.

1911's....America, you should have at least one and know how to shoot it...just because.

M&P 45.....only M&P I would consider owning. If have shot them well, but do not have enough faith in them to leave an HK for one.

Sig's......if it doesn't say "W.Germany" on the gun, I have a bitter taste in my mouth. With that said, they "can" make a great gun.

Glocks.....Lord have I tried. They simply do not fit me. Experience has been that they are good until they break.

This is kinda where I'm at with what I want out of my first .45ACP pistol. I can shoot a G21Gen4, but only just barely as I can JUST make the trigger reach on that thing. But it does Recoil oh so nicely and I can group well with it. I've shot a P220 a couple times before. It was smooth, but it was also flippy along with being "shovey". If I'm going to limit myself to 8 rounds in a full sized pistol, it might as well be a 1911.

The M&P45. A bit snappy and it fits way better than a G21, but it's still an M&P at its core. It'll do as a more affordable .45ACP option.

HKs. Never shot one, but I've handled a few. Given all the HK talk around here and handling a LEM, they intrigue me. Given that ammo costs are the vast majority of a "shooter's" gun budget (as opposed to a collector's), the cost doesn't seem like it should be all that much of a defining factor in the grand scheme of things.

I guess I need to go find some HKs to go try out.


EDIT: The one thing I didn't touch on was 1911s. I know they're going to be more finicky than M&Ps and HKs, but we're talking about .45ACP pistols here. I don't currently have a need for a high volume shooter in that caliber and my Glocks are about as drama free as I could possibly ask for. I'm a tinkerer by nature and have a desire the learn and maintain the platform.

Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[Dagga Boy]

If people insist on "making it better" installing aftermarket parts and working off of YouTube videos, HK's are not for you. If you can stick with simply having sights installed that work for your eyes, and then just learning to shoot it with the trigger system you like with a gun that is boringly reliable and that you cannot mechanically outshoot....then HK's are for you.

[spinmove_]

If people insist on "making it better" installing aftermarket parts and working off of YouTube videos, HK's are not for you. If you can stick with simply having sights installed that work for your eyes, and then just learning to shoot it with the trigger system you like with a gun that is boringly reliable and that you cannot mechanically outshoot....then HK's are for you.

I see HKs and SIGs as designs that are largely well thought out that would have the majority of the bells and whistles that one would want and need leaving very little for the end user to ultimately customize. All the SIG triggers I've ever encountered were nice and the HKs give you a ton of variants to choose from to basically give you exactly what you want from the factory. I likely wouldn't change anything but sights on guns from either of those two.

Kind of the same thing from the M&P. The trigger is fine, might add Talon grips or eventually stipple it, swap sights, call it good.

I've tinkered with my Glocks enough to know what kind of sight picture I like, duty/carry triggers are plenty good enough, and grippiness can be added for testing for very little cost with no permanent modification.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[jeep45238]

I'd personally go with a MP45 with the support gear, sight of choice, and some apex parts (specifically the reset thing). Last I saw good prices on the mags was from S&W on a police-trade in special, saw that in the email inbox. Add a 1-3 holsters and call it good. I have medium sized hands with shorter fingers, and doubt a .45 double stack da/sa will work well for me and I just can't work with a glock well.

I'd then spend the other 1300+ on ammo and a higher end pistol course.

On the flip side, if you want a .45 due to the lore, ignore it and approach this from the 9mm perspective. You'll probably get different answers.

[1slow]

HK USP45 Full size and Tactical, HK45, HK45T, HK45C, HK45CT. Very reliable, tough, and accurate.

Read GJM's and Dagga Boy's posts. Also Todd Louis Greens HK45 test and the article by Hackathorn & Vickers.

[spinmove_]

Based on what I've heard around here, it's prudent to go DA/SA with an HK first as you can convert those to LEM, but you can't necessarily convert a LEM to DA/SA. What DA/SA variant is generally recommended and why?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[1slow]

MY understanding is the HK45/HK45C and HK USP series models can be converted back and forth between DA/SA, LEM and other variations.

[warpedcamshaft]

USP if you want the option to shoot 45 super.

HK45 if you don't care about 45 super.

I'm a bit faster and more consistent with the HK45 than the USP.

I found a barely used 2002-ish date range USP 45 with night sights, GG&G rail adapter and 3 magazines for 650.

[BCL]

Based on what I've heard around here, it's prudent to go DA/SA with an HK first as you can convert those to LEM, but you can't necessarily convert a LEM to DA/SA. What DA/SA variant is generally recommended and why?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

This is mostly incorrect.

While not supported by the factory, you can convert a DA/SA P-series HK (P2000/P30/etc) to LEM but not the other way around, due to the lack of space in the frame for the decocker.

The USP/HK45-series can convert back and forth with no issues.

[Exiledviking]

Is there a difference in the recoil between the USP 45 and the HK45? I knows it's subjective but I'm curious. I've read that the USP 45 is one of the softest shooting 45s. IIRC, the recoil spring assembly is different between the 2?

[warpedcamshaft]

Is there a difference in the recoil between the USP 45 and the HK45? I knows it's subjective but I'm curious. I've read that the USP 45 is one of the softest shooting 45s. IIRC, the recoil spring assembly is different between the 2?

My analysis is thus regarding pure shooting characteristics:

The USP has a softer impulse, but flips a little bit more and does not sight track quite as nice for me.

The HK45 has a slightly harsher impulse (still a soft recoiling gun for a .45), but the sights track more consistently and I can really crank with it.

The USP fullsize utilizes a stiff secondary spring as a buffer, and the HK45 (and USP compacts) use a nylon bushing.

Bruce Grey attributed the USP's sight tracking characteristics to the secondary buffer spring and would remove the buffer spring from his USP 9mm in some competitions when legal.

However, comma, what I am talking about here is shooting fast splits. The USP 45 makes me work hard for .25 splits, the HK45 is a bit easier.

[Exiledviking]

Thank you, sir! Just the kind of info I was looking for.

[John Hearne]

I've been carrying a 45 on and off duty since they made me give up my revolver. My view is that the 45 ACP really benefits from a heavier (steel) frame if you're going to shoot it a lot. I wouldn't rule out the Sig P220ST if you can live with 8+1.

[DocGKR]

There is no such thing as .45 ACP, it is correctly referred to as .45 Auto.

If you want a .45 Auto pistol these days, then as noted an HK, M&P, or G21 are likely the way to go.

Get the pistol, then shoot it...............................a lot. Don't go all Lego/Barbie Doll with "modifications" until you have put 10,000 rounds or through it stock and really understand how it shoots.

[spinmove_]

There is no such thing as .45 ACP, it is correctly referred to as .45 Auto.

If you want a .45 Auto pistol these days, then as noted an HK, M&P, or G21 are likely the way to go.

Get the pistol, then shoot it...............................a lot. Don't go all Lego/Barbie Doll with "modifications" until you have put 10,000 rounds or through it stock and really understand how it shoots.

I guess I've been misinformed. I'm not questioning you, just curious, but why is .45 Auto correct and .45 ACP not?


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[DocGKR]

Ask SAAMI, the folks who approve the correct nomenclature: http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/Z299-3_ANSI-SAAMI%20_CFPandR.pdf#page=10

[Bill.45]

This is something like "What car should I buy".

[45dotACP]

The late Todd Green once put a HK45 through 50,000 rounds of .45 auto....there was a single, solitary malfunction.

One.


I'm a pretty huge fan of the 1911 and I feel that for about 2 grand you can get a good 1911, but if you're looking for the most dependable service weapon you can get in .45 I'd take a hard look at the HK45. Some of the guys who had a hand in its development know a LOT about using a .45 as a fighting weapon.

[spinmove_]

The late Todd Green once put a HK45 through 50,000 rounds of .45 auto....there was a single, solitary malfunction.

One.


I'm a pretty huge fan of the 1911 and I feel that for about 2 grand you can get a good 1911, but if you're looking for the most dependable service weapon you can get in .45 I'd take a hard look at the HK45. Some of the guys who had a hand in its development know a LOT about using a .45 as a fighting weapon.

Agreed. I went through and read through the entire process. It wasn't on my radar before, but it most definitely is now. It's big and expensive, but it's also ridiculously durable, ridiculously reliable, ridiculously accurate, handles Recoil very well, should fit just about everyone well, and might very well be the perfect excuse to be my gateway drug into the LEM world.

I don't personally see myself running a ton of .45 Auto anytime soon nor buying up multiple different .45 Auto guns, but this could be the platform for me moving forward kinda like how Glocks are for me in 9mm. I just hope that if I do get one it doesn't make me want to replace everything I have with an HK equivalent in LEM.


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[DocGKR]

There was once a guy at S&W who helped spearhead the M&P45 development for a military handgun program....he seems to know a lot also, which is why the M&P45 is probably the best of the M&P's...

Hmmm....to buy one HK45 or 2-3 M&P45's for about the same price....I know which way I went.

[warpedcamshaft]

Honestly, at this point... the only reason I own 45 Autos is because:

1: I'm an American and not a communist, so I have to have at least one steel framed American built 1911 in it's original caliber.

2: Because GJM convinced me the USP 45 makes a lot of damn sense stoked with 45 Super when large mammals are about.

[JTQ]

There is also the Beretta PX4 in .45 Auto. http://www.beretta.com/en-us/px4-storm-full/

We have the Langdon compact 9mm thread and here is an old review on the .45 Auto model from the late Stephen A. Camp

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/shooting_the_45-caliber%20beretta%20PX4.htm

[Velo Dog]

There is no such thing as .45 ACP, it is correctly referred to as .45 Auto.

Stop it. Next you'll be trying to convince us there is no such thing as .45 Long Colt :rolleyes:

http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/Z299-3_ANSI-SAAMI%20_CFPandR.pdf#page=10

[DocGKR]

Well the truth sometimes hurts...

[11B10]

FWIW, I have had a Glock 30S and am currently carrying a Sig P320C (in .45). They've both been flawless, albeit at a reduced round count. The only reason I made the switch from the Glock was due to my inability to access the mag release to my satisfaction. After carrying and shooting the Sig for the past year, I can vouch for the gun's just excellent ergonomics. As for price, the Glock was Glock-ish, $545.00. The Sig can be purchased at my local FFL for around $450.00, depending on your choice of sights.

[BehindBlueI's]

Well the truth sometimes hurts...

That's how danged good the .45 ACP is. Even the name hurts.

[flux]

FWIW, I have had a Glock 30S and am currently carrying a Sig P320C (in .45). They've both been flawless, albeit at a reduced round count. The only reason I made the switch from the Glock was due to my inability to access the mag release to my satisfaction. After carrying and shooting the Sig for the past year, I can vouch for the gun's just excellent ergonomics. As for price, the Glock was Glock-ish, $545.00. The Sig can be purchased at my local FFL for around $450.00, depending on your choice of sights.

Any more feedback on the P320 45s.? Here the 9mm seem to be doing very well in terms of reliability.

[Hambo]

Ask SAAMI, the folks who approve the correct nomenclature:

The Académie Française of cartridges.

[Chef]

HK45 or 1911.


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[Dagga Boy]

Stop it. Next you'll be trying to convince us there is no such thing as .45 Long Colt :rolleyes:

http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/Z299-3_ANSI-SAAMI%20_CFPandR.pdf#page=10

That is the one I normally correct folks on.

I have a couple HK 45's and absolutely love them and have zero issues with the cost. One word of warning on the M&P 45.....I am aware of issues with them not responding well to people working on them. Universal issue I know, but many times "making it better" doesn't.

For what it's worth, the best shooting I have ever done in the last decade was with an HK 45.

I was working on an article and felt a good "test" would be to shoot 5 back to back "Hackathorn Tests". 10 rounds, 10 yards, 10 seconds. The results scared me a bit. The gun will shoot if you do your job.

[DocGKR]

Yup....Hence my comments:


" Get the pistol, then shoot it...............................a lot. Don't go all Lego/Barbie Doll with "modifications" until you have put 10,000 rounds or through it stock and really understand how it shoots."