The literary and tv knife to throat hostage scenario

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This is a bit of a little silly thread. As a FOG, I've taken a few classes that have dealt with the hostage shot when you are close up and the bad guy has the hostage in front of him. Hand around neck and knife to the throat. How to do the pistol shot or even peeling them off with your shotgun. Perhaps this is fantasy for gun classes.

I watch an episode of Law and Order, SVU (one of my wife's favorite) where the BG has a child and Ice-T (I know) is about 3 ft. away and the BG is blabbing. Ice-t has his Glock 19 pointed right at the guy's head. I suggest - Just pull the trigger - enough that my wife says to be quiet. But Ice-T blabs and the guy blabs till he gives up.

However, on the X-files, Mulder is in the same situation and has his gun about about 2 feet from the BG's head. It is his BUG as the BG has his service weapon. Blah, blah but Fox tells the BG guy that will count to ten and the BG better surrender. One, two, three - BANG. Surprise, BG!

Now, I'm reading a book by Tammy Hoag - The Bitter Season. The killer has a child and a knife. The child's mother is there and the officer. The officer says to drop the child or I will shot you. Distance is 5 feet. The child (5 to 6) is held up and occludes the killer's face. He tells the officer to put down her gun. She does. She had a bug on her ankle. He tells the mother to pick up the gun and put it to his head and shoot him (why is complex, psychodrama of screwed up family). The officer thinks that she can go for the Bug when the mom tries to shoot him as the officer has put the safety on the Glock (OH, DEAR). But then a police helicopter shines their bright light on the BG. He flinches, the officer tackles him. He takes the knife in the fight and kills himself.

So what actually happens (so silly a question)? I think I would just shoot the person as Fox did and Ice-T didn't. I doubt I would drop my gun as in other classes, I saw that you have the reactionary gap advantage when someone is just babbling away.

I need the entertainment after doing the old man morning at the doctor's. Blah.

[Bigguy]

I think this is mostly on topic, maybe slightly tangental. It just drives me nuts when the LEO on a TV show “puts his gun down.” Question for the LEOs on the board: Can you imagine a situation where you would put you gun down at the BGs instructions?

[voodoo_man]

I think this is mostly on topic, maybe slightly tangental. It just drives me nuts when the LEO on a TV show “puts his gun down.” Question for the LEOs on the board: Can you imagine a situation where you would put you gun down at the BGs instructions?

It's happened...I remember seeing footage during an inservice training class where an officer handed his loaded firearm to an apparently suicidal person, who then shot himself with the gun....maybe I got the details wrong...but there are a few other instances of this happening.

[NETim]

"Taken." Liam Neeson waits until the old, fat sheik holding his daughter hostage begins to speak and POW!! That's all you need to know. In fact, "Taken" is all you need to know.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

BTW, Law and Order has the worst gun handling ever. Olivia loaded her gun with rubber bullets so she wouldn't kill a guy trying to set his ex on fire. Elliot was taken hostage and begged Olivia to shoot the BG so that the BG would shoot him (gun to head and he was depressed), then the BG put his shotgun muzzle way past his head and the genius just stood there. There were others.

[Wondering Beard]

There's this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFRwuqAfBQw

[Joe in PNG]

My favorite is from "Firefly". Mal shoots the agent holding Kaylee hostage without breaking stride.

[Al T.]

When I was married, my wife and I had the "what would you do if I was a hostage" conversation. I advised her to shut her eyes tight as I was concerned about "stippling" from un-burned powder. We also had a code word for her to bring her knees to her chest. Take a very strong guy to curl 110 lbs one handed.

[Coyotesfan97]

I think this is mostly on topic, maybe slightly tangental. It just drives me nuts when the LEO on a TV show “puts his gun down.” Question for the LEOs on the board: Can you imagine a situation where you would put you gun down at the BGs instructions?

Not after reading and watching The Onion Field. No thank you.

I was right next to one of my partners when he ended a hostage taking with the husband holding a knife to the throat of his wife with one well placed Federal TRU 5.56 round with no exit wound. Complete CNS shutdown and the wife was uninjured other than a small cut that happened prior during the incident.

[olstyn]

My favorite is from "Firefly". Mal shoots the agent holding Kaylee hostage without breaking stride.

http://www.geekykool.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/IShootFirst-e1439251056955.png

[JSGlock34]

Tim Gutterson's thoughts on the matter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJFcaGI6W24

[Chuck Haggard]

The issue I have with square range training on this subject is that my observation of said tactics in FoF almost always results in the hostage catching the bullet.

[HCM]

The issue I have with square range training on this subject is that my observation of said tactics in FoF almost always results in the hostage catching the bullet.

Hence contact shots when possible. The incident in the Midwest City, OK Walmart back in 2013 for example. Suspect has taken a random 2 year old little girl hostage and has knife to her throat.

http://www.guns.com/2013/07/01/disturbing-surveillance-video-released-of-suspect-holding-toddler-hostage-at-knife-point-video/

[Glenn E. Meyer]

In my perhaps fantasy training (but from legit folks), we practiced the contact shot lunge to the head with handguns. Another TV instance was in the Walking Dead. Same thing, close up knife, the good guys put down their guns. Blah, blah.

Knowing your shotgun pattern so you could just get the BG's head with the edge of the buckshot - I really don't know about that. It was fun in the class and in a match. I also always worried that the good person would eat the wad in their eyes (it does go right through the target, so might not be nice).

[Hambo]

This is a bit of a little silly thread. As a FOG, I've taken a few classes that have dealt with the hostage shot

Forgetting the knife to throat scenario, if I'm a hostage the list of teams I am comfortable with attempting any sort of rescue is pretty short.

[Josh Runkle]

Well, according to the movie "Speed", if I remember correctly, "Shoot the hostage."

[DiscipulusArmorum]

The issue I have with square range training on this subject is that my observation of said tactics in FoF almost always results in the hostage catching the bullet.

Do you mind expanding on this a bit?

[GuanoLoco]

Reminds me a bit of paintball games 25 years ago and something my team learned the hard way. Tell a noob to surrender so you don't have to welt him/her at point blank range. They will immediately spin and shoot you center mass or between the eyes with uncanny regularity. Adrenaline I guess. It's easier on everyone to just shoot them.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Precipice by Doiron. Not a bad read as it is about Maine Wardens and the background and story is interesting. Major fail when the hero doesn't take the obvious shot leading to high dramatic stupidity. Don't want to give it away but you would cringe at the end.

[Chuck Haggard]

Do you mind expanding on this a bit?

Bad guys do not stand still while you line up for the shot. They tend to move, and this action pulls the hostage into the incoming bullet.


The very same dynamics that the FSRC/Dr. Lewinsky noted in showing how cops often end up shooting a suspect in the back when they were aiming at his front are in play in said hostage scenarios.