View Full Version : Are Gen4's still shooting to the left?
About this time last year I purchased a Gen4 G22. Compared to my fleet of Gen3 guns and my past Gen2 guns I found the finish to be ugly (looked like oil/rust in it) and found that it shot to the left. I thought it was just me, but I gave the gun to several other Glock aficianados to shoot and even after majorly drifting the sights we all found the gun shot to the left. I traded it for another Gen3 G21.
I spoke to Kevin Doski and several other trusted friends and their Gen4's were doing the same.
Has anyone here experienced this bias towards the left with their Gen4?
Has Glock sorted it out with the latest production?
LittleLebowski
10-14-2011, 09:22 PM
I have owned two and have not experienced this nor have heard of it. Still own one.
Prdator
10-14-2011, 09:36 PM
Ive never heard of just Gen4's shooting Left, but lots of folks shoot left with there Glocks. As for the Gen4's I have 6 of them in .40 and 2 in 9mm and None of them shoot left. Except for the one 9mm they have all been near perfect ( one FTE on the second G17) the .40's have been 100%.
A little background...
I have shot Glocks continously since 1998 and have never experienced this problem until this particular Gen4 G22. I thought it was me at first or that the slightly different trigger was throwing me off. Then I talked to some folks experiencing the same issue. We discussed it on 10-8forums a bit. All the guns seem to be about the same vintage.
It's reassuring to hear no one is having this issue. I ask because I'm thinking of picking up a Gen4 G19 to give Gen4 guns another try.
Here is my little experience with Glocks shooting left (this is a gen 3 G19 though).
I shot and shot and shot mine, and it kept shooting slightly left. Not by much, so I thought it was me with my 1911 trigger skills. I then asked one dude whose initials are E.L., to shoot mine. It shot left for him. I went home and drifted the sights. I then asked another dude, who goes by TLG, to shoot that Glock with sights drifted to the right. The pistol shot dead center for him.
By now I've heard of many very good shooters needing to drift their Glock sights to the right. While not all Gs do that, I think that incidence is high enough to call it a systematic issue, without regard to generation.
Prdator
10-14-2011, 09:57 PM
Just my 2c but I would make sure the G19 has the new Ejector in it. My gen4 G34 has it and I think it is going to fix most the gen4 9mm issues... least I sure hope it does...
As for the shooting Left. I think it really might come down to grip pressure as I have had them shoot Left and the more I work with them the less that happens.
Take a look at this thread. http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1525-Consistently-shooting-to-the-left-with-new-Gen4-G17
I'd like to see more discussion on the video.
ToddG
10-15-2011, 01:07 AM
Mine shot a tad left. It was fixed by a one-tap adjustment via punch & hammer.
johnemckenzie
10-21-2011, 04:51 PM
My gen4 G19 definitely shoots to the left. It is quite definitive.
I've heard of several explanations. Yet, it seems to be "a systematic issue" to me too.
JonInWA
10-21-2011, 11:00 PM
I have a friend in my IDPA league that acquired a used Gen 3 G19 that shot so far to the left that the rear sight was drifted to the point of overhanging off the right side of the slide. Glock was great about it; they provided him a shipping label, and fixed the problem; it turned out to be the slide lock needing to be replaced (and they thoroughly when through the rest of the gun as well).
Best, Jon
NickDrak
10-22-2011, 12:07 AM
My Gen4 G17 serial # prefix: RSWxxx test fire date: June/2011 shot way left with my Triji HD sights centered. I drifted the rear slightly to the right and it now hits POA for me.
Long tom coffin
10-22-2011, 12:26 AM
Just my 2c but I would make sure the G19 has the new Ejector in it. My gen4 G34 has it and I think it is going to fix most the gen4 9mm issues... least I sure hope it does...
As for the shooting Left. I think it really might come down to grip pressure as I have had them shoot Left and the more I work with them the less that happens.
Take a look at this thread. http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1525-Consistently-shooting-to-the-left-with-new-Gen4-G17
I'd like to see more discussion on the video.
Not to drag this off topic, but the new ejectors are still rarer than a unicorn's horn unless you send them back to glock. I've heard of them at GSSF matches but no armorer in my area has them and Dave at Glockparts.com keeps ordering them but they keep sending him the 336 instead (which has happened 3 times in a row now). I've been very lenient and even defensive previously but Glock is seriously starting to piss me off.
On topic:
I shot left (not low left, just straight left) past 15 yards or so. It was even noticeable with XS sights. I could hammer everything into a tiny little group inside 15 yards with the big dots, but it was a tiny little group to the left of where I was aiming. Being a n00b at the time, my first obvious inclination was to blame the equipment, so I got new Ameriglo I-dot Pros installed. Through luck of the draw, I made the right decision for all the wrong reasons ( I love my I-dots), but I was still shooting left. I then manned up and blamed myself. I eased up on my grip slightly, improved my stance, and backed my finger out of the guard slightly so it was just the tip of my finger on the trigger. Left shooting went away, and hasn't been a problem since.
ToddG
10-22-2011, 12:54 PM
I've now had four sets of sights on my gen4 G17 test gun (stock, Ameriglo Hack/idot, Trij HD, and Warren/Sevigny 2-dot). The gun consistently shoots ~3" left at 25yd with the sights centered. This is true slow fire, rapid fire, from a rest, from standing, strong grip, weak grip, etc. Maybe it's me and I just suck, but for now I'm a little suspicious it may be the gun.
EricP
10-22-2011, 02:14 PM
I put a new set of Warren's on a gen 4 G17 last night. This morning I tested it, with the sights centered on the slide, and my group was 3.5" to the left. The math says that I need to move them 0.026" to the right. That would leave them overhanging the radius of the slide.
Nephrology
10-25-2011, 04:37 PM
I've now had four sets of sights on my gen4 G17 test gun (stock, Ameriglo Hack/idot, Trij HD, and Warren/Sevigny 2-dot). The gun consistently shoots ~3" left at 25yd with the sights centered. This is true slow fire, rapid fire, from a rest, from standing, strong grip, weak grip, etc. Maybe it's me and I just suck, but for now I'm a little suspicious it may be the gun.
Have you seen this with other Glocks in the past?
ToddG
10-26-2011, 07:19 AM
Have you seen this with other Glocks in the past?
Randomly? Yes. Like any mass producer of handguns, some shoot a little high, some a little low, some left, some right.
Consistently like with the gen4 pistols? No.
PHPistols
04-02-2012, 01:38 PM
Here are some pics of perhaps why this is happening, you can look at your own to see if true:
In the first set of pictures, the muzzle was crowned aprox .025" off center with the axis of the bore, its not on purpose and in this case most certainly will make for sorry accuracy. It looks as if someone with minimal skill did it with a hand held drill and a loose clamp.
On Gen 4, Glock 23:
1. http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/skylined12/IMG_20110119_213856.jpg?t=1295495082
2. http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/skylined12/IMG_20110119_213334.jpg?t=1295495397
3. http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/skylined12/IMG_20110119_204733.jpg?t=1295495450
4. http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/skylined12/IMG_20110119_204748.jpg?t=1295495480
And another instance, this was a G22, unknown if it was Gen3 or Gen4.
1. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/mike9250/002-23.jpg
2. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/mike9250/003-23.jpg
3. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/mike9250/004-12.jpg
4. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/mike9250/005-18.jpg
JonInWA
04-02-2012, 03:25 PM
This is a huge hypothetical, and I certainly most emphatically do not mean to criticize anyone having this problem, but is it possible that a long-term user of a Gen 2 or Gen 3 G22, being grooved in on the recoil impulse and its effect on POA/POI (and having acquired muscle memory/sight zeroing for the earlier G22) could be expereincing just enough of a difference on a Gen4 G22 due to the new RCA/receiver configuration/backstrap chosen to account for such a difference?
It might be of some value to bench test both the older and Gen4 G22 to help ascertain if it's a mechanical (hardware) or a shooter (software) issue...
Best, Jon
FWIW: My late 2011 Gen3 19 also shoots 3" left at 25Y.
ETA: I just checked the crown, it's symmetrical.
My early gen 4 G17, which was otherwise a complete POS, shot POA for windage with the sights centered. It also shot a tad high which is normal for me with Heinie Quik sights.
Shokr21
04-02-2012, 04:43 PM
My gen4 g19 also shoots ~2" left at 15m and ~3" left at 25m. I thought it was me and have been trying to adjust my trigger pull and grip to fix the situation, but that has not been working. Consistently 2-3" off at those distances no matter the changes I make in the software, I might try a 1 tap fix with punch and hammer to see if it changes anything.
I might try a 1 tap fix with punch and hammer to see if it changes anything.Bump it about .020".
I've now had four sets of sights on my gen4 G17 test gun (stock, Ameriglo Hack/idot, Trij HD, and Warren/Sevigny 2-dot). The gun consistently shoots ~3" left at 25yd with the sights centered. This is true slow fire, rapid fire, from a rest, from standing, strong grip, weak grip, etc. Maybe it's me and I just suck, but for now I'm a little suspicious it may be the gun.
I think this new Gen 4 G26 is the first of about a dozen Glocks where my rear sight actually IS centered for center POI. Funny stuff.
Shokr21
04-02-2012, 05:50 PM
Bump it about .020".
Don't have a precision measuring instrument like a caliper, but I'll try to get as close to .020 as possible!
Thanks for the exact measurement though.
It's a little thicker than a business card.
Shokr21
04-02-2012, 06:07 PM
Thanks again, I think I got it to where it needs to be. If anything it's a little shy of .020. Now to get out and test it.
Too bad my range is hydroseeding our 4 new bays this week and there's a ccw class tonight and tomorrow on the lone pistol/rifle bay available.
Shot 100 rounds today with my brand new G22 Gen4. I shot 2in RIGHT, I am a lefty...... any chance it"s the heavier trigger pull on the Gen4s?
I checked the concentricity of my late gen4 19. Looks good. I tend to shoot a bit left, but since I group right with my weak hand that would tend to mean it's the meat-servo problem I would think.
ARonBoard
04-03-2012, 09:29 AM
I also experienced this on a new G19. It was very discouraging since I bought the pistol to compete in GSSF and IDPA and was ready to take the plunge. I went to the range with some buddies and my wife and started at about 7 yards. Left, left, left left. I expected my brand new gun to remove red at 7 yards. It was the same with everyone who shot it. I sold it at a small loss and bought the P30 I have now and things are how I expected them to be the first time.
ETA; I wanted to add, a local police friend of mine said it was due to adapting to the different shape of the glocks grip after shooting other pistols. He said since it was more rectangular you need to keep pressure on the front and rear of the grips as opposed to all 4 sides of the grip like other more round grips. FWIW, It didnt help my experience.
ETA; I wanted to add, a local police friend of mine said it was due to adapting to the different shape of the glocks grip after shooting other pistols. He said since it was more rectangular you need to keep pressure on the front and rear of the grips as opposed to all 4 sides of the grip like other more round grips. FWIW, It didnt help my experience.
Some people shoot Glocks very far left, it's common enough that Heinie sights actually mill the notch in their rear sights off center (to the right) because so many shooters have an issue. On my older Gen3 guns with Heinie sights, I have to move my sight to the left to correct for their deliberate design change. But - this is a mechanical issue that seems to be unique to newly produced Glocks.
Serpico1985
05-18-2012, 10:44 PM
I know it's a little late to be jumping into this thread but I had some info to add. As best I can tell my Heinie quik ledge straight eight rear sight is damn near perfectly centered in the dove tail and shoots pretty much dead on for windage and a tad high at 25 yards. I read this thread and checked the rear sight with my calipers and ill be damned if the rear notch isn't cut .010" off center. Good info in the thread, had no idea.
Peculiarity of my eyes, but I need a left correction on all long guns with iron sights, and a slight right correction on all handguns (revolver, 1911, polymer). That said, I need more right correction on the one Gen 4 22 I have, than any other handgun I have owned.
Savage Hands
05-28-2012, 09:11 PM
Mine is definitely shooting to the left about 3 inches of center at 25 yards but very good groups, I'm going to bump the rear sight to see if it corrects it.
mongooseman
05-30-2012, 06:33 PM
My Gen 3 G17 shot slightly, but noticeably to the left with my Ameriglo CAPS. I drifted the sight slightly to the right with a Glock sight tool. The pistol is accurate enough forme to plink at long distance. So I blame it on this one particular gun, especially since I shot a G30, G22, and a G27 to point of aim with no problem. The G30 had I-dots and the .40's both had Mepro three dots. My Gen 4 G19 is pretty much as dead on as you can get with those stock plastic sights.
pasky2112
07-22-2012, 06:10 PM
Shot 100 rounds today with my brand new G22 Gen4. I shot 2in RIGHT, I am a lefty...... any chance it"s the heavier trigger pull on the Gen4s?
I'm a lefty too and had the same issue with 2 Gen4's (G22 and G23). I consistently shoot about 2-3" off-center @ 2:00-3:00. I have to Kentucky windage my .40 @ 15y to hit center! ;) On my G23 which is my CCW, I installed adjustable truglo sights and just corrected windage to center. This was after several months of trying to adjust my trigger control, finger depth, etc. I picked up a friends .40 M&P and hit POA...same with another friends .45 XDm in the same shooting session. So that's when I conceded to just get adjustable sights. Now if I can only get the ejection issueS fixed... :(:confused:
arcticlightfighter
06-12-2015, 10:53 AM
Hate to resurrect this thread but recently I converted to a Gen 4 G17 from a Gen 4 19. The trigger is noticeably stiffer and I found myself consistently shooting 1-2" left at 15 yards despite grip, trigger manipulation etc. I am attributing this to the trigger and hopefully it will smooth out with use, eliminating this phenomenon.
Any updates from anyone as it seems to be reported by others here.
It varies a bit from gun to gun. I have two G4 17s One of which is my duty gun,both shot consistently to the left out of the box and required some recite correction to the right. My newest Glock is a blue label G4 34 which was dead on right out-of-the-box.
For me, it varies by caliber, model and individual pistol.
My 43 requires no sight deflection to achieve POA/POI. My 17's require some right deflection, and my G4's (sample of three) require even more right deflection.
Use a sandbag and shoot it supported, it can help you determine if it's you or the gun.
Up1911Fan
06-12-2015, 11:17 AM
Use a sandbag and shoot it supported, it can help you determine if it's you or the gun.
Wish I could do this. I actually shoot more consistent groups at 15 and 25 freestyle than when I try benching them.
I've never seen a Glock shoot to the left. I have however seen Glocks shot to the left. It's easy to do, but it's not the gun.
I've never seen a Glock shoot to the left. I have however seen Glocks shot to the left. It's easy to do, but it's not the gun.
It is easy to do, but there is some variation gun the gun. I have Two gen 3 17 with identical Warren sites. The only difference between them is one has a black frame and one has an OD green frame. With the sites centered one shot to POA and one hit left. The county sheriffs office we share the range with carries Glock 22s. They have noticed the same variations. I had one of our other firearms instructors and one County SO firearms instructor shoot my duty 17 to verify before I moved the sight over.
I'm in armor for my agency and I won't move sites on a gun until at least two of our instructors shoot it and verify it's off.
HCM: I also have 2 identical guns, out of the box one hit very left and the other didn't. And it's not like I don't have/had a dozens other Glocks and have plenty of trigger time behind them all.
Blanket statements like "it's not the gun(s)", when they haven't even seen the guns in question, are foolish.
Plenty of Gen4 guns shoot left, sometimes it's the user, sometimes it's the gun, and sometimes it's both.
breakingtime91
06-12-2015, 01:39 PM
HCM: I also have 2 identical guns, out of the box one hit very left and the other didn't. And it's not like I don't have/had a dozens other Glocks and have plenty of trigger time behind them all.
Blanket statements like "it's not the gun(s)", when they haven't even seen the guns in question, are foolish.
Plenty of Gen4 guns shoot left, sometimes it's the user, sometimes it's the gun, and sometimes it's both.
I have even seen it with gen 3's, my 2006 glock 19 shoots left about 2-3" for everyone who shoots it..
Good point on the Gen3. I had a Gen3 gun that was built after Gen4s came out, and it too shot left.
While I zero each of my pistols to my eyes, and have noticed a tendency for Glock pistols generally and especially G4 22 pistols to shoot left, it is also true that I can press the trigger in such a way as to make POI move left or right. And, it seems especially easy to miss left (for a RH shooter) when pushing. Richard Heinie, by design, offsets the notch slightly right on his rear Glock sights. I am assuming that this is to address the tendency for Glock pistols to shoot left, and not poor trigger technique, or he would need to market left and right hand specific rear sights.
breakingtime91
06-12-2015, 02:20 PM
While I zero each of my pistols to my eyes, and have noticed a tendency for Glock pistols generally and especially G4 22 pistols to shoot left, it is also true that I can press the trigger in such a way as to make POI move left or right. And, it seems especially easy to miss left (for a RH shooter) when pushing. Richard Heinie, by design, offsets the notch slightly right on his rear Glock sights. I am assuming that this is to address the tendency for Glock pistols to shoot left, and not poor trigger technique, or he would need to market left and right hand specific rear sights.
good post GJM. By default, when installing rear sights on my G19, push the sight slightly to the right to compensate for the tendency of it shooting left. It has made a world of difference, I spent over 6 months blaming myself, then a friend of mine and good shooter confirmed that the gun shot left, deviated my sights and I have been golden since.
arcticlightfighter
06-12-2015, 05:14 PM
good post GJM. By default, when installing rear sights on my G19, push the sight slightly to the right to compensate for the tendency of it shooting left. It has made a world of difference, I spent over 6 months blaming myself, then a friend of mine and good shooter confirmed that the gun shot left, deviated my sights and I have been golden since.
I have an issue with adjusting the sights on a brand new handgun that is factory stock to adjust the POI when I am doing everything Im supposed to do but will likely end up doing this.
breakingtime91
06-12-2015, 06:24 PM
I have an issue with adjusting the sights on a brand new handgun that is factory stock to adjust the POI when I am doing everything Im supposed to do but will likely end up doing this.
ya, I am often looking to blame myself (the shooter) instead of the gun. Sometimes you just have to realize its the gun and its a simple fix.
I have an issue with adjusting the sights on a brand new handgun that is factory stock to adjust the POI when I am doing everything Im supposed to do but will likely end up doing this.
The days of factory test targets and guns being zero'ed at the factory are largely behind us. IME Glocks come with the plastic sight protectors centered. When you fire the gun you will find out if they are POA or need adjustment for windage. Good news is Glocks are usually on for elevation.
Kyle Reese
06-12-2015, 08:47 PM
The days of factory test targets and guns being zero'ed at the factory are largely behind us. IME Glocks come with the plastic sight protectors centered. When you fire the gun you will find out if they are POA or need adjustment for windage. Good news is Glocks are usually on for elevation.
Unless you buy a Walther. [emoji3]
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Unless you buy a Walther. [emoji3]
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Or a CZ
Chuck Haggard
06-17-2015, 09:31 AM
One thing I have noted numerous times on the range is the complaint that the Glocks shoot left.
Most of the time I get a right handed shooter. I shoot the gun, it's centered, I hand the gun back to them and have them shoot left handed, the gun now shoots to the right...... In cases like that, it ain't the gun.
I often give that advice to people, if they are right handed and the gun shoots left, then try the gun slow fire left handed. If it shoots right, not the gun, still shoots to the left, most likely the gun and not the shooter inducing the problem via trigger pull.
breakingtime91
06-17-2015, 10:16 AM
One thing I have noted numerous times on the range is the complaint that the Glocks shoot left.
Most of the time I get a right handed shooter. I shoot the gun, it's centered, I hand the gun back to them and have them shoot left handed, the gun now shoots to the right...... In cases like that, it ain't the gun.
I often give that advice to people, if they are right handed and the gun shoots left, then try the gun slow fire left handed. If it shoots right, not the gun, still shoots to the left, most likely the gun and not the shooter inducing the problem via trigger pull.
This saved me some time. shot gun right handed hit left, shot gun left handed hit left. Drifted sight right and all is well
1slow
06-17-2015, 10:36 AM
One thing I have noted numerous times on the range is the complaint that the Glocks shoot left.
Most of the time I get a right handed shooter. I shoot the gun, it's centered, I hand the gun back to them and have them shoot left handed, the gun now shoots to the right...... In cases like that, it ain't the gun.
I often give that advice to people, if they are right handed and the gun shoots left, then try the gun slow fire left handed. If it shoots right, not the gun, still shoots to the left, most likely the gun and not the shooter inducing the problem via trigger pull.
I agree, this has been my limited experience across 40 + Glocks.
I zero by shooting at 25 yards. I shoot 2 handed right hand ( I am right hand dominant), I then shoot left hand only, last I shoot right hand only.
If I am getting the same impact point right and left handed I call it a good zero. I like to zero confirm at 50 yards if possible
In the 40 +gen 1 - gen 3 Glocks I have put sights on or adjusted sights on ( I have not done any gen 4) I have found that if I use a dial caliper and mechanically center the sights that about 80% + the pistol is zeroed. The remainder impact slightly left.
saints75
06-17-2015, 03:00 PM
My Gen 4 and Gen 3s shoot left. On my gen 3s I come to realize that is it was me not my Glock. It sounds funny, it was my trigger finger was not straight and the gun would fire to the left. Once I figured that out I started to shoot straight. On my Gen 4, I have changed out the grip. I had the large backstrap on it and I replaced it with the medium back strap. The medium on is close to the gen 3 grip. I measured it out. I put Warren Tactical sights on it. I had to adjust the sight a little. I need to do some testing, but I think I fixed the problem. I do not care for the Warren U shape sight. I am going to try to use the Warran Savyen rear. I am find out I like the square notch type of sights. I am hoping once I have the new sights on the gen 4 I can play around and it will not shoot left anymore. Here is to hoping :)
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