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BehindBlueI's
03-10-2016, 03:17 PM
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Docwagon1776/Ruger/20160310_144952_zpszltxzplt.jpg

Well, after 15-ish years of reloading I finally had a squib. I did what I was trained to do when I felt the reduced recoil and heard the different sound, stopped shooting, announced "squib!" (even though I was the only one on the range) and then opened the cylinder and looked in the forcing cone. I could see the base of the bullet, so I was done with the LCR for the day. Shame, too, I was shooting pretty well.

DocSabo40
03-10-2016, 03:33 PM
I'm glad you caught it before firing the next one. Any idea how it might have happened? Any change in your routine or equipment?

I do often consider the results of a possible squib when running drills at speed and whether I would have time to react, I'm thinking the answer is no. I'm quite average, and the average human reaction time is .26 seconds. If I'm running .20 splits, I couldn't react to the squib until .06 seconds after I had already fired the next shot.

BehindBlueI's
03-10-2016, 06:11 PM
I'm glad you caught it before firing the next one. Any idea how it might have happened? Any change in your routine or equipment?

I do often consider the results of a possible squib when running drills at speed and whether I would have time to react, I'm thinking the answer is no. I'm quite average, and the average human reaction time is .26 seconds. If I'm running .20 splits, I couldn't react to the squib until .06 seconds after I had already fired the next shot.

No change in my routine. I suspect my powder dispenser may have messed up somehow or be wearing out. I've used the same Lee doo-dad for about 12 years now and it's got a lot of loads under it's hood. I noticed several light loads while shooting, far more variation than I normally get. While dispensing the powder, I noticed that I had one real hard pull, like something was clogged. I weighed that charge and it was ok, but the handle remained "grindy" feeling for several more loads. It then went back to normal. I wonder if the one that went back to normal was the light one. I don't know what a primer only load would look like, so I won't rule out I simply spaced out for a second and didn't pour powder in one.

I'm no where near a .20 split with a revolver but I instantly realized it wasn't right. I said "squib" out loud and was lowering the gun before I consciously realized it. I *suspect* that if it occurred with a semi auto it would not cycle the action fully and would result in a FTE or FTF. I think you'd feel and hear the difference and you'd have time to react during a malfunction drill. If it did cycle the slide, then perhaps you're right.

dudley0
03-12-2016, 11:23 AM
It was probably sketchy brass*


* This is meant to be an inside joke and not to be taken seriously

Happy that you caught it quick enough.

Duelist
03-12-2016, 12:22 PM
I had a similar, primer-only squib once. It stopped in the forcing cone and locked up the cylinder. On the second-to-last shot of the last stage of a local match. That I was winning.

Oh, and I didn't bring a spare gun that day, so I DNF'd.

Could have been a lot worse.

BehindBlueI's
03-13-2016, 11:49 AM
I still haven't figured out what happened.

I poured the powder out of the hopper and made sure it hadn't clumped. I did not see any clumps.

I've dispensed and measured multiple loads and they all weigh within .1 grain.

The bullet seems a bit far down the barrel for a primer only load.

I can only suppose it happened when the handle felt different and will keep an eye on it. I'm going to load up another 100 and see how they do.

LSP972
03-13-2016, 12:45 PM
I still haven't figured out what happened.



And you likely never will.

I've had two of those; both in .45 reloads in an HK45C. One I definitely noticed, did what you did- stop and investigate. The bullet was about halfway down the bore. If I hadn't stopped…


The second one was during an IDPA match; same gun, same batch of ammo. My first clue was a FTF; I did a Phase One tap-rack-bang clearance; no joy. Fortunately… very fortunately… the bullet had lodged just past the forcing cone, preventing a new round from chambering ll the way.

Here's the weird part; myself, the RSO, and the guy running the timer all said there was NO difference in noise signature (i.e., no "pop" instead of bang); recoil looked/felt the same, the fired case extracted/ejected just fine, and when I began slapping the gun they thought I had a simple case of Dreaded Limp Wrist.

Anyway… I was big-time lucky on that one. I did find a few high primers in that batch of ammo, but I shot up the rest of it without issue. And I have loaded and shot thousands of duplicate rounds since then, with no issues.

No doubt that some nay-sayer/s will use these examples as reason why THEY never endanger themselves or others with reloads, etc., etc., ad nauseum. I stopped trying to 'splain anything to these people a very long time ago. I do share your consternation… but you know what? LSP972 don't care. If I bulge a barrel or blow an extractor, magazine, whatever… LSP972 don't care. Shit happens, despite the careful approach I- and no doubt you- use. And I doubt those self-righteous nay-sayers have shot enough or been around folks shooting enough to see some of the screw-ups that come out of factory ammo boxes.

Like that Russian Olympic champion shooter said once, during a lecture when questions about his stance and handling procedure being "safe" were asked… he said, "Is gun! Is NOT safe!":cool:

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Jeep
03-13-2016, 01:19 PM
Some factory loads are squibs as well--as I learned one day on a M-60 machine gun range. Unfortunately perfection is not a human virtue.

JohnO
03-13-2016, 01:52 PM
I could see the base of the bullet, so I was done with the LCR for the day. Shame, too, I was shooting pretty well.

No Squib rod? I have been carrying one in my range bag for years now. Never had to use it on one of my guns/reloads but it has seen some use in other people's guns. Needless to say a handy item to have on hand.

BehindBlueI's
03-13-2016, 03:09 PM
No Squib rod? I have been carrying one in my range bag for years now. Never had to use it on one of my guns/reloads but it has seen some use in other people's guns. Needless to say a handy item to have on hand.

No, but I suppose I'll be on the market for one. Just as soon as I close this barn door now that the horses are out.

deputyG23
03-13-2016, 05:22 PM
No, but I suppose I'll be on the market for one. Just as soon as I close this barn door now that the horses are out.
Yup. Having my gun tool box saved a range trip when I had a squib 9mm reload in a Glock 17.
Second squib in thirty-five years of reloading was a lead bullet reduced load .44 mag in a M29. No tool box that day. Had to switch out to save the range trip.
Note to self. Don't reload when tired...

Rick_ICT
03-13-2016, 05:36 PM
A squib or overcharge was my biggest fear getting back into reloading. I run a Hornady Powder Cop die between my powder measure/PTX and bullet feed die and find I can spot discrepancies >.1 grain pretty easily. It requires visual confirmation of the powder level indicator on each stroke however. I also run an Inline Fabrication Skylight LED light, so I can visually check the charges right before the case goes into the bullet feed die (in case I suddenly can't remember if I checked the Powder Cop on that case).

RCBS makes a similar powder charge check die, but I don't like it as well as the Hornady. However, RCBS also makes a lock-out die that will stop the press stroke if the powder charge in a case is off far enough. Since it's passive (no need to visually verify powder level on each stroke) I've been toying with the idea of trying it out. Unfortunately it is said to only work with straight wall pistol cartridges, whereas the Powder Cop can be used with almost any cartridge. The lock-out die is considerably pricier too at around $50. Cheaper than a barrel or trip to the E.R. I guess.

If your press setup allows for adding one, I highly recommend a powder check die. Puts my mind somewhat at ease, anyway.


ETA Dillon makes some fancy contraption that buzzes if your charge is off, but it only fits the 650/1050 presses.

olstyn
03-13-2016, 06:26 PM
If your press setup allows for adding one, I highly recommend a powder check die. Puts my mind somewhat at ease, anyway.

I use a Powder Cop too, and my experience has been similar to what you describe. I find it pretty easy to give it a quick glance to make sure it's telling me everything is ok with every downstroke of the handle. I bought it with my initial setup because I knew that moving to a progressive press meant that it'd be easier to screw stuff up and I wanted all the safety I could get. Having gotten some experience with the system under my belt, I don't feel like I get slowed down by having it there, so I see no real reason to remove it from the press. It does what it does quite nicely, and as you've said, it can enable you to detect some pretty small variations in charge weight, depending on what powder you're using. It's well worth the $30 or so it sells for.

serialsolver
03-13-2016, 06:31 PM
When I qualified with my 340pd I would load some light loads. Like the guys could see the bullets go down range. Just as long as the bullets didn't bounce off the target kind of load. Anyway I had loaded 50 rounds of my light loads and had a bunch of squibs. I figured out that my power measure has a quirk in it that if it wasn't full of powder it won't throw the correct loads. I keep it full now.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

LSP972
03-13-2016, 07:19 PM
If your press setup allows for adding one, I highly recommend a powder check die. Puts my mind somewhat at ease, anyway.




Until you get a bad primer. You can see the unburned powder granules- lots of em- behind that bullet base.

My money, in this incident, is on a poof primer.

Not trying to be confrontational here. But the fact remains that even the most conscientious reloader is very likely going to have something like this occur at some point. BB1's issue is just another of a long line of similar ones I know about and/or have experienced. Not often, mind you; but I've been reloading (with a few breaks), and been around other folks shooting reloads, since 1967.

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JAD
03-13-2016, 08:28 PM
And as Jeep pointed out, running factory isn't foolproof.

BehindBlueI's
03-13-2016, 08:36 PM
Until you get a bad primer. You can see the unburned powder granules- lots of em- behind that bullet base.

My money, in this incident, is on a poof primer.

Not trying to be confrontational here. But the fact remains that even the most conscientious reloader is very likely going to have something like this occur at some point. BB1's issue is just another of a long line of similar ones I know about and/or have experienced. Not often, mind you; but I've been reloading (with a few breaks), and been around other folks shooting reloads, since 1967.

.

I don't know that it's powder. It's a plated bullet and I thought it was the plating.

I'm leaning strongly on it being a bad primer, though. This lot has been very inconsistent. The primers had gotten hot and the box had a bit of red in it. I think they may have gotten too hot, the primer compound melted, and some were tipped or tilted and didn't have as much primer compound left.

ER_STL
03-13-2016, 08:38 PM
Heh....I've got a picture of my 442 in the exact same condition floating around the 'net somewhere. :o I took a brass piece to one of my cleaning rods and gently hammered the bullet back out. Lots of fun. Like you I could tell immediately that something didn't feel right. I was just about to break the next shot when I pulled off of the trigger.

I've never had so much as a hiccup with 9mm but .38 is a little tricky. It's a long casing for such a lightly loaded cartridge. It would be easy to both squib and double-charge a round. In your particular case it looks like there's a significant amount of unburned powder behind the bullet so I wonder if you simply didn't get full ignition for that round...

Rick_ICT
03-13-2016, 10:42 PM
Until you get a bad primer. You can see the unburned powder granules- lots of em- behind that bullet base.

My money, in this incident, is on a poof primer.

Not trying to be confrontational here. But the fact remains that even the most conscientious reloader is very likely going to have something like this occur at some point. BB1's issue is just another of a long line of similar ones I know about and/or have experienced. Not often, mind you; but I've been reloading (with a few breaks), and been around other folks shooting reloads, since 1967.

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I don't see anything that could be construed as confrontational, and considering you have more experience reloading than I've got breathing, I'll defer to your experience.

My mind went to the powder charge because BBI mentioned his suspicion of his powder measure, I'm not really experienced enough to try to diagnose the issue from a photo. And I hope my first post didn't give the impression I was questioning anyone's conscientiousness. That wasn't the case at all.

In any event I think if a guy has an open station on his press, a powder check die is a worthwhile investment. As I said, it puts me a little more at ease, and I can sit back a little more to operate the press since I don't have to be hunched over it where I can see the the powder in each case.

In order to run all of the operations I want on my five stage though, I'm having to run a PTX die on my powder measure and a combo seating/taper crimp die. So there are definitely trade offs that have to be weighed if you don't have an open station. Not only do you have to buy the powder check die, you may have to replace other dies to free up a station.


I don't know that it's powder. It's a plated bullet and I thought it was the plating.

I'm leaning strongly on it being a bad primer, though. This lot has been very inconsistent. The primers had gotten hot and the box had a bit of red in it. I think they may have gotten too hot, the primer compound melted, and some were tipped or tilted and didn't have as much primer compound left.

I didn't think it looked like powder either, my first thought was "Why are there brass shavings around the base of the bullet?" Plating makes more sense.

How many more of those primers have you got? I think if not a whole lot, in your shoes I'd be thinking pretty hard about whether it's worth the risk to use them up or just destroy them and buy some fresh primers. I sure wouldn't be doing any rapid shooting with them if they were mine!

BehindBlueI's
03-13-2016, 10:51 PM
How many more of those primers have you got? I think if not a whole lot, in your shoes I'd be thinking pretty hard about whether it's worth the risk to use them up or just destroy them and buy some fresh primers. I sure wouldn't be doing any rapid shooting with them if they were mine!

None. They were a partial box that was left over from a run of .357 I made for a class last year, and they were old primers then. I've got maybe 50 loaded cartridges left in the box, and some are the old primers and some are new. I'm going to finish shooting them and then start refilling the box with new primer ones.

The only thing I'm shooting them in is my LCR. I made these with a tight crimp specifically for it, due to my standard medium load .357s jumping crimp, an issue they've never had in my larger revolvers. I'll be careful with them, and take my dowel with me, just in case.

ER_STL
03-14-2016, 09:24 AM
After looking at the photo again I'd feel even more confident in assuming that you didn't get decent ignition for that round, probably because of a bad primer. I didn't notice any unburned powder when I squibbed the one in my 442 so I assumed that I truly missed a powder throw when dealing with brass catching during one of the stages. The bullet still managed to make its way all the way to the crown of the barrel...

Ironically, the only time I ever had an ammo-related issue with 9mm was with factory ammo...with the last box of factory ammo I purchased actually. I had several powder-puff rounds go through my gun resulting in an FTF and, after stopping to inspect the barrel I noticed unburned powder all over the place. That came from the standard 100-round pack of 115gr WWB that used to cost $9.97 at Walmart back in the good ol' days.

LSP552
03-14-2016, 09:13 PM
I personally believe that my reloads get more attention and QC than most factory rounds. Most of us who have seen institutional amounts of factory ammo have seen plenty of problems with factory stuff. I've seen bad primers, crinkled cases from seating, a couple of primers loaded up side down, and we had one batch of .45s were the bullets were oversized. Steve, refresh my memory but didn't we have at least one P220 bulged barrel due to a factory oversize round followed by another...

Hambo
03-15-2016, 01:38 PM
If you shoot enough you'll find duds in factory ammo. As well as bullets loaded backwards and various other things.

BehindBlueI's
03-18-2016, 03:48 PM
I finished up the last 60-ish that included some from the old primers. Probably 20 of them were old primer, but impossible to tell which was which. I had one more squib and three that felt so light I stopped shooting and shined a flashlight down the barrel to verify the bullet exited. I then shot 50 that I know are new primer and they all functioned fine and were consistent.

As such, I'm satisfied the issue was the primers that were left out on the bench when I stopped reloading due to cold weather.

Moonshot
03-21-2016, 09:35 AM
This may be a stupid question on my part, but will a squib damage the barrel? This assumes you do not fire a round behind it.

Does it matter how you remove the bullet, and whether it's lead or jacketed?

LSP972
03-21-2016, 12:08 PM
This lot has been very inconsistent. The primers had gotten hot and the box had a bit of red in it. I think they may have gotten too hot, the primer compound melted, and some were tipped or tilted and didn't have as much primer compound left.

Bingo.

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LSP972
03-21-2016, 12:11 PM
. And I hope my first post didn't give the impression I was questioning anyone's conscientiousness. That wasn't the case at all.



It didn't. And I wasn't trying to talk over you... was simply pointing out that a powder checker, while useful, isn't THE cure...;)

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LSP972
03-21-2016, 12:20 PM
Steve, refresh my memory but didn't we have at least one P220 bulged barrel due to a factory oversize round followed by another...

More than one; don't remember exactly how many before we figured it out.

Then there was the factory 9mm cartridge that had no primer OR flash hole; just an empty primer pocket. Bullet & powder, too. That one won me a steak dinner, because the Federal rep didn't believe me when I called him about it. That one, and two R-P .45 ball rounds with no extractor groove turned into the case head, are tied for my personal favorites.

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BehindBlueI's
03-21-2016, 02:56 PM
This may be a stupid question on my part, but will a squib damage the barrel? This assumes you do not fire a round behind it.

Does it matter how you remove the bullet, and whether it's lead or jacketed?

I don't believe so. Removal could cause damage, I suppose, if you used the wrong tools and gouged the rifling or boogered up the muzzle. I prefer a dowel rod because wood isn't likely to damage steel. There are aluminum tools made specifically for the task as well, and likely others I'm not aware of.

LSP972
03-21-2016, 03:18 PM
I don't believe so. Removal could cause damage, I suppose, if you used the wrong tools and gouged the rifling or boogered up the muzzle. I prefer a dowel rod because wood isn't likely to damage steel. There are aluminum tools made specifically for the task as well, and likely others I'm not aware of.


Brass is best. Softer than any barrel metal (ok, maybe excepting Hi-Points), and the mass "helps" to move the offending stuck bullet easier with less percussive energy applied. Look under "range rods"... several varieties available.

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Jim Watson
03-21-2016, 11:14 PM
I stuck a bullet with a light load behind a light bullet. Swinging the .38 up from low ready threw the powder up against the base of the bullet and the primer flash just didn't carry far enough. I had a bullet stuck in the barrel with unburnt powder behind it.

I recommend a brass rod for such occasions. If you get a tight one and split a stick of wood with splinters wedged in next to the bullet, you will think so, too, but then it will be too late.

Moonshot
03-22-2016, 08:23 AM
Thanks for the info on how to remove a squib. I've had several from a bad batch of .38 reloads (from a reputable supplier, too) get stuck in a 642 and a model 19.

I don't remember now what I used to remove them. Could have been my Glock cleaning rod, could have been a wooden rod. I am sure I was worried about damaging the barrel, but I never considered splinters.

I'll be buying a brass rod the bext time I am at the LGS. Thanks again.

BehindBlueI's
05-06-2016, 01:32 PM
MYSTERY SOLVED

CFE leaving a lot of space in the brass, which I knew. The non-magnum primers apparently aren't hot enough to get a good burn if the powder isn't near the rear of the cartridge. This is almost certainly the cause of my inconsistencies and the squibs.

I tinkered around with my Chrono today and tilting the gun barrel down and shaking it a bit before firing resulted in velocites as low as 80-100 fps and one hang fire. Tilting the barrel up and shaking it before firing resulted in very consistent velocities in the upper 780-800 range. These were .38 loads with 5.9 gr of CFE and a 125 gr bullet, CCI primers.

I'm just going to have to be careful with the rest of what I've got loaded and then I'll try magnum primers. Now that the powder is back in stock in local stores again I'll try to find something better suited for .38.

Luke
05-06-2016, 02:34 PM
That's good news! I'm sure it puts your mind at ease knowing it wasn't your fault.

TiroFijo
05-06-2016, 03:01 PM
MYSTERY SOLVED

CFE leaving a lot of space in the brass, which I knew. The non-magnum primers apparently aren't hot enough to get a good burn if the powder isn't near the rear of the cartridge. This is almost certainly the cause of my inconsistencies and the squibs.

I tinkered around with my Chrono today and tilting the gun barrel down and shaking it a bit before firing resulted in velocites as low as 80-100 fps and one hang fire. Tilting the barrel up and shaking it before firing resulted in very consistent velocities in the upper 780-800 range. These were .38 loads with 5.9 gr of CFE and a 125 gr bullet, CCI primers.

I'm just going to have to be careful with the rest of what I've got loaded and then I'll try magnum primers. Now that the powder is back in stock in local stores again I'll try to find something better suited for .38.

We love it when a mistery is solved... :)

LSP972
05-06-2016, 03:50 PM
I tinkered around with my Chrono today and tilting the gun barrel down and shaking it a bit before firing resulted in velocites as low as 80-100 fps and one hang fire. Tilting the barrel up and shaking it before firing resulted in very consistent velocities in the upper 780-800 range. These were .38 loads with 5.9 gr of CFE and a 125 gr bullet, CCI primers.



Note to self… when shooting further bunny-fart loads, assume the Full Sabrina position before each cylinderful...:cool:

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I just realized that some of you younger guys probably have no idea of WTF a Full Sabrina is. This old thread pretty well 'splains it; couldn't find any photos of kate jackson actually doing it; too much time has passed.


https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1212212

Also, Danny Glover did a perfect rendition of it in one of the Lethal Weapon movies, as well as the second Predator flick.

.

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BehindBlueI's
05-06-2016, 04:22 PM
Note to self… when shooting further bunny-fart loads, assume the Full Sabrina position before each cylinderful...:cool:

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I just realized that some of you younger guys probably have no idea of WTF a Full Sabrina is. This old thread pretty well 'splains it; couldn't find any photos of kate jackson actually doing it; too much time has passed.


https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1212212

Also, Danny Glover did a perfect rendition of it in one of the Lethal Weapon movies, as well as the second Predator flick.

.

.

I only know because someone else used the term and I asked what they meant.

The 5.9 gr is dead center recommended load for 125 gr per Hogdon's website. None of my paper reloading manuals (by which I mean my one paper reloading manual) is anywhere near new enough to include CFE.

They are real nice to shoot in the Detective Special. Veeerry comfortable to shoot. I'm thinking a magnum primer will fix the consistency issues. I've always heard Winchester primers are hotter than CCI, and some of my velocity data seems to support that in standard primers. Might see if I can find some Winchester magnum primers.

olstyn
05-06-2016, 06:26 PM
The 5.9 gr is dead center recommended load for 125 gr per Hogdon's website. None of my paper reloading manuals (by which I mean my one paper reloading manual) is anywhere near new enough to include CFE.

It's funny how completely different some cartridges and guns are from each other even when the bullet and load are similar. A 124 grain MG JHP over 5.0 of CFE Pistol makes ~1040 FPS for me in 9mm. Losing 240 FPS to the short barrel and the cylinder gap while using almost 20% more powder is a pretty impressive, albeit explainable, difference. I wonder how much longer the revolver's barrel would have to be to make up the difference.

LSP972
05-06-2016, 09:47 PM
I'm thinking a magnum primer will fix the consistency issues.

Approach that VERY carefully. "Magnum" primers are intended to ignite compressed stacks of medium-to-slow burning powder. This hotter, larger jet, flashing over a small amount of fast powder, sounds to me like a potential recipe for detonation.

No empirical data to support this; supposition on my part due to what I know about powders and primers.

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BehindBlueI's
05-06-2016, 11:46 PM
Approach that VERY carefully. "Magnum" primers are intended to ignite compressed stacks of medium-to-slow burning powder. This hotter, larger jet, flashing over a small amount of fast powder, sounds to me like a potential recipe for detonation.

No empirical data to support this; supposition on my part due to what I know about powders and primers.

.

Hodgdon calls for magnums in the .357 magnum with CFE - Pistol

6.6 - 7.6 gr + magnum primer for .357
5.2 - 6.2 gr + standard primer for .38
6.4 + standard primer for .38 +P

Figure the .357 has roughly 10% more case volume. I can't see where a 6.2 gr load with magnum primer is going to risk detonation where a 6.6 gr load in a 10% larger case would not. I contacted Hodgdon to see what they think.

LSP972
05-07-2016, 08:20 AM
I'm not familiar with CFE-Pistol. I was assuming you were assembling very light loads. If so, the larger .357 case volume gives even more room for trouble.

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olstyn
05-07-2016, 02:30 PM
I'm not familiar with CFE-Pistol. I was assuming you were assembling very light loads. If so, the larger .357 case volume gives even more room for trouble.

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CFE-P, IIRC, is basically HS-6 (or was it Autocomp - I forget) with the copper fouling eraser thing that they developed for CFE 223 added to it, so it's not a super fast powder. I can't really speak to the safety of loading it in a large case with a lot of space, but I expect it's much safer than something like, say, Titegroup.

LSP972
05-07-2016, 06:14 PM
... the copper fouling eraser thing that they developed for CFE 223 added to it...

Say what???

Passingly familiar with HS-6; no clue re AutoComp. Copper fouling eraser? Yeah… right.

Thank you sir, for the info. Think I'll pass on these new-fangled powders; old-school is working for me.;)

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BehindBlueI's
05-07-2016, 09:38 PM
Say what???

Passingly familiar with HS-6; no clue re AutoComp. Copper fouling eraser? Yeah… right.

Thank you sir, for the info. Think I'll pass on these new-fangled powders; old-school is working for me.;)

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I used WST until The Great Ammo Scare and ran out. CFE-Pistol was what I could get in an 8 lb jug.

As far as copper removal, the military seems to think it works. Other folks testing it has also confirmed it in rifles:


Metcalf’s test rifle barrel was already fouling-free, thanks to 200 rounds of handloads just fired, so he put another 100 rounds of American Eagle commercial ammo through it. A bore scope revealed definite fouling, though not quite as much as from twice as many rounds of the same load the first time. The rifle was then allowed to sit for a week (uncleaned), and then 100 CFE 223 handloads were rapid-fired through it. It came out like a freshly-cleaned barrel.
The new powder definitely does “erase” previous fouling, but Metcalf said he agrees with the Hodgdon engineer who commented it would probably be a lot more cost-effective and time-effective just to clean a heavily fouled and inaccurate bore by conventional means than to shoot hundreds of CFE 223 handloads through it. But a steady diet of the “eraser” propellant from the onset will certainly keep it from getting fouled in the first place.

http://www.dispatchnews.com/2013/01/14/eraser-propellant-can-keep-hunting-guns-foul-free/

Something chemically bonds with the copper and makes it flake so it breaks loose and is expelled out the muzzle. Antimony, IIRC, but it's been a bit since I looked into it. It's main draw to me was "available". It's been a great powder in .45 ACP.

olstyn
05-07-2016, 09:48 PM
It's main draw to me was "available".

Me too, but by the time I got around to trying it, I also had a pound of N320 to play with, and while the CFE-P worked fine for 9mm, N320 is super nice, so the CFE-P has just sat on the bench waiting its turn, whereas I ordered several jugs of N320. It's a perfectly acceptable backup, and I'll use it WAY before I ever use the 1/2 or 1/3 pound of Unique I still have lying around, but unless a) my shooting volume increases a ton, and b) we go through another powder shortage, it'll likely be sitting for a long time.

BehindBlueI's
05-09-2016, 01:06 PM
We cannot suggest putting a magnum primer into your cartridge since it will change pressures.

What I feel is a combination of the load is your problem. In order to change this you need to have a good tight roll crimp on the cannelure of the bullet so the cartridge can have good bullet hold to develop pressures so when the primer goes off it is actually pushing the bullet forward before the powder had time to ignite well and build pressure. Plated bullets do not have a cannelure and we suggest either using Jacketed or lead bullets that have a crimping groove. Try this first and this should solve your problem, if it does not solve your problem than you need to switch to a different powder like Titegroup which is less case sensitive.

Hodgdon's reply.

Interestingly enough, Xtreme plated bullets do have a cannelure. I think the answer is "this powder sucks for .38".