GLOCK KILLER...PMG STRYK-B

[BES]

Glock killer? I guess we shall see. Looks really interesting.

From company website:

" PMG is a new company founded by Arsenal Firearms, Salient Arms International and PRIME Ammunition to drive new technology innovation and manufacturing for advanced weapon systems. At SHOT Show 2016, we lead with Arsenal's fantastic new locking technology, the AF-Speedlock that has been created to move striker fired weapon systems to a completely new level of performance. Salient combines performance and design with a perfect balance of ergonomics, aesthetics and reliability in Pistols, Rifles and shotguns. SAI has put all their knowledge and skill set into the STRYK A and STRYK B pistols. PRIME Ammunition delivers the extraordinary Match+ Swiss factory loads, designed by PRIME, developed and manufactured by RUAG Ammotec, the European market leader - known for precision, reliability and long lasting overall performance quality.

It’s easy to see why these pistols are going to fly off the shelf. Uncompromised precision, accuracy, reliability, customer service and value are the cornerstones of PMG and a package of technology not seen before on the market! These industry leaders are committed to innovate and create the best weapons platforms available. " 643764386439

[okie john]

Let the games begin.


Okie John

[LSP972]

Game over, before it starts. Unless they are selling these for $199.95 or less, anyway.

Since Salient is involved, I rather doubt that...:rolleyes:

.

[GardoneVT]

Wasn't the Caracal supposed to be the "Glock Killer"?

Or was it the Steyr M9?

Maybe I'm thinking of the Aresnal Strike One.

[TAZ]

Isn't that a Strike 1 with a bunch of extra machining runs on the slide.

[Mr_White]

You guys are all wrong, I am the GLOCK KILLER.

[GJM]

I won't buy it until they make a compact. :)

[Peally]

40 years from now some lawyer is going to misinterpret that and say SEE HE EVEN CLAIMS TO BE A KILLER WITH HIS GLOCK!

It's Salient Arms so I'm guessing MSRP will hover around $1800 for the plastic thing.

[Tamara]

Oh, look. Another special snowflake gun. I bet it has the lowest bore axis ever.

[Mr_White]

40 years from now some lawyer is going to misinterpret that and say SEE HE EVEN CLAIMS TO BE A KILLER WITH HIS GLOCK!

It's Salient Arms so I'm guessing MSRP will hover around $1800 for the plastic thing.

Right, lol. So I guess now is the time to clarify that I am talking about destroying the guns themselves through diligent practice.

[BES]

Isn't that a Strike 1 with a bunch of extra machining runs on the slide.

From what I gather, it is similar to the Strike 1 but they have taken feedback from end users to change the design and make a 100% US made firearm. In comparison to the Italian made strike 1 it has Improved ergonomics and machined internals instead of MIM, and a superior trigger. A major improvement are the internal upgrades, the original batch of strike 1s had some reliability issues. Can't wait for someone to review one, from what I've read so far the recoil impulse is extremely tame because of the grip angle, low bore axis and locking mechanism. To me the real question is, for $799 is that much better than a Glock? I guess we'll find out eventually.

..... Also, Salient Arms doesn't have the best reputation right now lol...

[JHC]

I won't buy it until they make a compact. :)

errrr . . . single stack.

[JHC]

Oh, look. Another special snowflake gun. I bet it has the lowest bore axis ever.

We need a design with the sights above my hand, an inverted magazine feeding downward and the slide and barrel UNDER my hands.

[Luke]

I would buy one for 799. They look cool. Guessing it won't ever make the production list though

[Irelander]

I would try one out. A compact version would be ideal...like G19 barrel length.

[Nephrology]

I would shoot one. Not sure I'd buy one.

[JonInWA]

Oh, gee....let's see:

-Established reliability/accuracy/durability?

-Price?

-Ease of field-stripping?

-Ease of detailed disassembly?

-Aftermarket support (including customer service, component stockages, magazines, etc.)?

-Consumer/Organizational support/support network?

-Potential for expansion/growth/improvement in design architecture?

-Manufacturing quality and sustainability?

Hey, it might be the greatest new firearm; after all, in the 1980s no one really visualized Glock either. But it, and they, have some creds to establish, and some hurdles to jump first.

Best, Jon

[Peally]

I'll let someone else beta test random expensive crap like this. In 10 years if Stoeger is shooting one and Pat Mac tells me they burn things down when he's doing blaze ops I'll consider it.

[Sal Picante]

It is an interesting design - falling block action. I'd like to try one out for the lulz and see how it does.
(That said, I like my Glocks, err, Berettas too...)

That's the neat thing about guns - a few approaches to the concept/constraints and some better/worse execution of the final product.

[GardoneVT]

I'll let someone else beta test random expensive crap like this. In 10 years if Stoeger is shooting one and Pat Mac tells me they burn things down when he's doing blaze ops I'll consider it.

There are many fields where cutting edge tech is an end user benefit .


Firearms ain't one of them.

[Texaspoff]

Glock killer? I guess we shall see. Looks really interesting.

From company website:

" PMG is a new company founded by Arsenal Firearms, Salient Arms International and PRIME Ammunition to drive new technology innovation and manufacturing for advanced weapon systems. At SHOT Show 2016, we lead with Arsenal's fantastic new locking technology, the AF-Speedlock that has been created to move striker fired weapon systems to a completely new level of performance. Salient combines performance and design with a perfect balance of ergonomics, aesthetics and reliability in Pistols, Rifles and shotguns. SAI has put all their knowledge and skill set into the STRYK A and STRYK B pistols. PRIME Ammunition delivers the extraordinary Match+ Swiss factory loads, designed by PRIME, developed and manufactured by RUAG Ammotec, the European market leader - known for precision, reliability and long lasting overall performance quality.

It’s easy to see why these pistols are going to fly off the shelf. Uncompromised precision, accuracy, reliability, customer service and value are the cornerstones of PMG and a package of technology not seen before on the market! These industry leaders are committed to innovate and create the best weapons platforms available. " 643764386439

Well looks like they took a Strike 1 and added a different texture to the grip, milled the slide, cocking serrations exteneded, 45 degree bevel, and re milled the sight dovetails, to allow a more standard type sight rather than the proprietary Arsenal sights. Also has a flat trigger, and recessed the front of the trigger guard. IMO it looks like someone bought some Strike 1's and had Salient do some work, and is re-branding them under the PMG name listed. Pretty much the same thing Springfield did with the XD. The Strike pistols hasn't really taken off, and I don't see this one doing any better.

Now this one might do well, at least it has a big name behind it. Would like to get my hands on one of these to play with
TXPO6442

[SteveB]

When's the carbine coming out?

[CCT125US]

FIFY
I won't buy it until they make a compact, LEM in .45 Super. :)

[HCM]

You guys are all wrong, I am the GLOCK KILLA.

FIFY. Yo. :cool:

[Default.mp3]

Pretty sure Jacques Pêcheur is the only real attempted Glock killer thus far.

[HopetonBrown]

Vogel is interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx1QsMqZR_8

[voodoo_man]

Only way itll be a glock killer is if its 500 bucks, runs in the mud and comes out of the box without requiring modification.

[Peally]

Glocks need those atrocious sights replaced out of the box but they're not the only brand.

[okie john]

I bet it has the lowest bore axis ever.

That's all I really look for these days.


Okie John

[Irelander]

Only way itll be a glock killer is if its 500 bucks, runs in the mud and comes out of the box without requiring modification.

Yep. Given the price of the Strike One I doubt its going to give Glock a run for its money no matter how well it performs.

[Kyle Reese]

I thought that the S&W Emman-Pee was supposed to be the slayer of Glock, circa 2005?

[LockedBreech]

That marketing speak hurts my brain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[imp1295]

Didn't Spencer run an Arsenal for a bit? Be interested to here his comments relevant to his G35 and G34.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[BehindBlueI's]

It's uglier, so there's that going for it.

[DiscipulusArmorum]

If I had a Glock for every "Glock-killer" we've been promised...I'd have a lot of Glocks.

[Poconnor]

Looks interesting but they better start selling them super cheap for me to even consider it. I remember when glocks were $250 and les Baers were $1200. I think the first kimber 1911 I bought was only 475

[Clobbersaurus]

That looks like an updated Arsenal Strike -1 to me.

I've shot a couple mags through the older version. It was quite accurate. I didn't notice much improvement in muzzle flip due to the low bore axis thing, and by then I was spending serious time on Beretta's.

It was a nice gun, but a Glock killer it isn't.

[Jim Watson]

We need a design with the sights above my hand, an inverted magazine feeding downward and the slide and barrel UNDER my hands.

The Soviets built one like that for International Rapid Fire.
The ISU (now ISSF) quickly banned it.


I thought the Italian version was interesting, I thought the Strike One Speed was very interesting, but not $1200 worth.
$799?
Maybe.

[JBP55]

Looks interesting but they better start selling them super cheap for me to even consider it. I remember when glocks were $250 and les Baers were $1200. I think the first kimber 1911 I bought was only 475

When did a NIB Glock retail for $250?

[TAZ]

From what I gather, it is similar to the Strike 1 but they have taken feedback from end users to change the design and make a 100% US made firearm. In comparison to the Italian made strike 1 it has Improved ergonomics and machined internals instead of MIM, and a superior trigger. A major improvement are the internal upgrades, the original batch of strike 1s had some reliability issues. Can't wait for someone to review one, from what I've read so far the recoil impulse is extremely tame because of the grip angle, low bore axis and locking mechanism. To me the real question is, for $799 is that much better than a Glock? I guess we'll find out eventually.

..... Also, Salient Arms doesn't have the best reputation right now lol...

Appreciate the response. Its not my cup of tea at the moment, but I do wish the venture the best of luck. All the Glock Killer media talks aside, the more competition out there the better off consumers are wrt price and innovation.

[Hambo]

You would think that in the early 21st century new pistols would come from the factory cut for optics.

[Peally]

Not a lot people have a use for them, but I wouldn't shed a tear if it had a filler piece and I didn't have to use it.

[45dotACP]

This thread is awesome based on snark alone...

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

[RevolverRob]

Glock Killer.

To build a "Glock Killer" handgun, one will need to design an extremely simple handgun that: Runs is virtually all conditions, is dirt common ubiquitous in terms of accessories, has magazines that are cheaper to replace than repair, has 10,000 different sight options, and can be bought for less then the price of a G17/19 with a GSSF Coupon...which means it has to hit da streets at $375. Given that it's all but impossible to build such a gun...I think we just have to accept it. Glocks are equivalent to .38 Special revolvers. That said, free market and some folks will vote with the dollars for this new piece.

Me? I keep thinking about the fact that GSSF 2-year Membership is $60 and a Glock 17/19 MOSs are $489.

-Rob

[spinmove_]

Glock Killer.

To build a "Glock Killer" handgun, one will need to design an extremely simple handgun that: Runs is virtually all conditions, is dirt common ubiquitous in terms of accessories, has magazines that are cheaper to replace than repair, has 10,000 different sight options, and can be bought for less then the price of a G17/19 with a GSSF Coupon...which means it has to hit da streets at $375. Given that it's all but impossible to build such a gun...I think we just have to accept it. Glocks are equivalent to .38 Special revolvers. That said, free market and some folks will vote with the dollars for this new piece.

Me? I keep thinking about the fact that GSSF 2-year Membership is $60 and a Glock 17/19 MOSs are $489.

-Rob

This. I've spent too much damn money looking for the better mousetrap when it was right in front of my face. Now that I'm back with a G19, I think I need to get my kiester to a GSSF match and get a membership. I don't see myself really deviating from Glocks too much at this point. They just work, they're cost effective, they're dead simple to work on, and everyone makes everything for them.

[mtnbkr]

This. I've spent too much damn money looking for the better mousetrap when it was right in front of my face. Now that I'm back with a G19, I think I need to get my kiester to a GSSF match and get a membership. I don't see myself really deviating from Glocks too much at this point. They just work, they're cost effective, they're dead simple to work on, and everyone makes everything for them.

I just bought my first semi-auto centerfire in over a decade. I chose the G19 for exactly the reasons you stated above. My last foray into semis was an exercise in futility with various special snowflake guns, which soured me on the whole concept until now.

Chris

[OnionsAndDragons]

From what I read when this was shown at SHOT:

It's an updated StrikeOne, that will be made in the US.

There will be dovetails that fit already available sights. I think the demo guns had Glock front sight and M&P rears.

They already had a compact version for display.

That's a much better foot to start on than the first time around. I'm interested, but not holding my breath.


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[Josh Runkle]

Only way itll be a glock killer is if its 500 bucks, runs in the mud and comes out of the box without requiring modification.

And you'll still be able to buy a GLOCK in every country in the world.

[voodoo_man]

And you'll still be able to buy a GLOCK in every country in the world.

On top of a long list of other things you'd need to conquer.

[Josh Runkle]

On top of a long list of other things you'd need to conquer.

Well, obviously I don't intend to go to every country and buy one, my only point is that when I lived abroad for a few years, you could obtain a GLOCK in just about any country within about 3 hours. I like the idea that if I am abroad and shit hits the fan, I can always find the same damn thing.

GLOCK is the Coca Cola of the firearms world, and just because someone can make a better artesian cola, it doesn't make it Coke.

[voodoo_man]

Well, obviously I don't intend to go to every country and buy one, my only point is that when I lived abroad for a few years, you could obtain a GLOCK in just about any country within about 3 hours. I like the idea that if I am abroad and shit hits the fan, I can always find the same damn thing.

GLOCK is the Coca Cola of the firearms world, and just because someone can make a better artesian cola, it doesn't make it Coke.

Pepsi...;)

[GardoneVT]

M&P......;)

FIFY.
.

[ProTacGUNS]

$799.. you pick the .40 or the 9mm for either the Stryk A, or B. Anyone interested visit in a pre-order visit www.protacguns.com/stryk-pistols.html (https://youtu.be/3Y7aWLpuxA4) .. pre-order for only $400.
Make a $400.00 DEPOSIT to reserve yours now!!


Manufactured by PMG, a company founded by Arsenal Firearms, Salient Arms International, and Prime Ammunition to drive new technology innovation and manufacturing for advanced weapon systems. Built and manufactured in the USA, the Stryk B is the compact variant with a 4" barrel (similar in overall size to the Glock 19) with 15 round magazines in 9mm variant. The Stryk A is a full size frame with a 5" barrel and 17 round magazines in 9mm. The Stryk pistols feature Glock compatible sights, upgraded gripping surfaces and ergonomics, a different slide profile, flat trigger surface, and Arsenal's fantastic new locking technology, the AF-Speedlock. This, along with the new horizontal sear, creates a low bore axis; making this gun a fast, flat-shooting machine. The Stryk pistols ship with three magazines. Call 900-300-6214 for further questions.

Pre-Order yours now with a $400.00 deposit and additional $399.95 Due at Shipping. Shipping starts 3rd quarter.

[LSP972]

But wait! There's more!

.

[Inkwell 41]

But wait! There's more!

.

Order before midnight tonight and double your order! Plus, you get a free membership in the new gun of the month club. Quantities are limited, action figures sold separately, batteries not included. Collect them all!

[11B10]

This. I've spent too much damn money looking for the better mousetrap when it was right in front of my face. Now that I'm back with a G19, I think I need to get my kiester to a GSSF match and get a membership. I don't see myself really deviating from Glocks too much at this point. They just work, they're cost effective, they're dead simple to work on, and everyone makes everything for them.


Gentlemen - my local LGS has Gen4G19's for $398 - alas, only for LEO, which I am not. Where might I find G19's at the prices you quote?

[spinmove_]

Gentlemen - my local LGS has Gen4G19's for $398 - alas, only for LEO, which I am not. Where might I find G19's at the prices you quote?

I never quoted any prices. From what I understand, becoming a GSSF member will eventually yield Glock discounts if you are not a LEO.

[BehindBlueI's]

$799.. you pick the .40 or the 9mm for either the Stryk A, or B. Anyone interested visit in a pre-order visit ...

I was totally going to buy one, but just noticed there's no .38 Super offering.

https://41.media.tumblr.com/fa3f72905bc552b255cd107e4a1339b4/tumblr_nm22stpwAz1snwaiao1_500.jpg

[11B10]

I never quoted any prices. From what I understand, becoming a GSSF member will eventually yield Glock discounts if you are not a LEO.


Sorry - meant to reply to "Revolver." My Glock experience yesterday did me in - took me back to my days of Glock ownership - a place I'm virtually certain I will revisit one of these days. Thanks for the information!

[Rain6LLC]

If you want to post to post ads, become a Supporting Business (https://pistol-forum.com/payments.php) and post them in the Supporting Business Forum (https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?58-Supporting-Business-Forum).

[TCinVA]

It's shit like this that makes people hate the internet.

Edit:

LOWEST BORE AXIS!!!!

[Rain6LLC]

I'm not trying to offend anyone. I don't see how this is rude, I'm trying to help people purchase a firearm.

[JSGlock34]

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/64611173.jpg

[LockedBreech]

I'm not trying to offend anyone. I don't see how this is rude, I'm trying to help people purchase a firearm.

You're trying to CONVINCE people to purchase YOUR firearm, that's a heck of a lot different from helping people purchase a firearm.

[LockedBreech]

On an unrelated note, I'm selling a Ferrari Killer car I built. Chassis is a 2002 Honda Civic but though a proprietary upgrade process I've made this thing a street racing machine.

[Rain6LLC]

Thanks

[john c]

It's shit like this that makes people hate the internet.

Edit:

LOWEST BORE AXIS!!!!

This is a genuine question: why is having a low bore axis not a selling point? Personally, I have a strong preference for low bore axis guns, even before I was aware of the concept. In those dark, savage days before the Internet, I found Glocks to be much less "flippy" than other pistols I tried. I liked that feature, and bought one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Joe in PNG]

This is a genuine question: why is having a low bore axis not a selling point? Personally, I have a strong preference for low bore axis guns, even before I was aware of the concept. In those dark, savage days before the Internet, I found Glocks to be much less "flippy" than other pistols I tried. I liked that feature, and bought one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Discussion Here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1531-Low-Bore-Axis-how-important-is-it)

[TCinVA]

Thanks for posting that link, Joe. I appreciate it.

John, I'd urge you to read that thread and pay particular attention not just to my rants, but to the input from F2S and Todd.

I'm feeling his absence rather keenly today for some reason.

[JCS]

The magazines are only $78.

Not a good way to compete with Glock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JSGlock34]

Maybe they should've submitted this for the FBI competition? You know, since it is a 'Glock killer'.

Nah.

[JCS]

Will there ever be a true Glock killer? Serious question?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kyle Reese]

I thought that the Caracal & Strike One were supposed to be "Glock killers".

[Luke]

I would love to shoot a glock with my tanfo and call it a "glock killer".

[Inkwell 41]

I could be wrong, but this looks like a Stryk Out.

And to the moderator, nice work changing the hyperlink. I hope it doesn't "rain" on anyone's parade.

[Mjolnir]

The VP9 is a better pistol but I don't see how HK (or anyone) could capture the market GLOCK has.


-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[LockedBreech]

Will there ever be a true Glock killer? Serious question?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In my estimation the only serious competitors are right now M&P, VP9, and 320.

I imagine Glock walks away on top again.


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[BehindBlueI's]

Will there ever be a true Glock killer? Serious question?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not without a culture/marketing shift. Glock and Harley, good enough products...excellent culture/marketing machine.

[Mjolnir]

In my estimation the only serious competitors are right now M&P, VP9, and 320.

I imagine Glock walks away on top again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Better sales, for sure.




-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[GardoneVT]

If you want to post to post ads, become a Supporting Business (https://pistol-forum.com/payments.php) and post them in the Supporting Business Forum (https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?58-Supporting-Business-Forum).

Translated into plain English:

"If you're searching for the next steaming pile of trendy bullpucky, look no further. You'll be the talk of the local gun counter with this beauty, designed in a different country then it's made in with an unpublished testing cycle and zero public agency support. This gem of a gun is destined to go stale faster then the White House's press secretary ,so don't wait until it becomes cliche to get yours now!

If you're a Glock lover, you'll appreciate a functional gun that doesn't throw cases at your head. This one will only do the latter, but 50% is still passing with a curve !

Preorder your hot plate of junk now for the overpriced deposit cost of two point five boxes of 9mm ammo. The ammo works, to be sure; but you can't brag about that at the gun counter!

The JNCK-HAL-9000 boasts several rehashed ,pointless features irrelevant to actual shooting, such as:

A really low bore axis, reducing wrist wear during your annual 100 round range trip to Uncle Phils backlot
Ergonomics exceptionally copied off of other brands.
4.2912413445" barrel precisely machined from pre-owned Croatian pot metal.
Dovetailed for changeable sights, a feature M9 Berettas don't have!
The same Picatinny rail system available on your Uncle Phils Springfield XD gun box.
An available gold finished barrel , so you can show off the gun during your malfunction clearances!

All for the low low introductory price of your firstborn child , available from a conglomerate LLC so shady even the Chicago Democratic Party won't contract with them. Get yours now, before Some Other Gun Guy does!"

[Lost River]

I would quote Rain6's total bullshit, but I do not want to give him any more advertisement.

Hopefully he figures out very quickly which way the door is, and takes the click bait and snake oil hype with him.

..and have a nice day.

[john c]

Thanks for posting that link, Joe. I appreciate it.

John, I'd urge you to read that thread and pay particular attention not just to my rants, but to the input from F2S and Todd.

I'm feeling his absence rather keenly today for some reason.

Joe;

Thank you for the link.

TC;

I did read the thread, and it was quite enlightening. What I took from the discussion is that for beginning and perhaps intermediate shooters, bore axis can be felt. At advanced levels, it fades into noise. Sort of like me trying to race Mario Andretti if I was driving a Corvette and he was driving '73 Pinto. I'd feel the slickness of the gear shifter, and feel like it was helping me drive better/faster. Andretti would still win, and everything mechanical would fall into background noise of his driving ability. That still doesn't mean I wouldn't prefer driving a corvette. :D

Similarly, any grand master could smoke me if I were shooting a raced out G34 and they were shooting a jennings .25 jam-a-matic with a heal release and an 8 round mag. I'm not at the level where those things have faded into the background. I'm working on it.

[TCinVA]

TC;

I did read the thread, and it was quite enlightening. What I took from the discussion is that for beginning and perhaps intermediate shooters, bore axis can be felt. At advanced levels, it fades into noise. Sort of like me trying to race Mario Andretti if I was driving a Corvette and he was driving '73 Pinto. I'd feel the slickness of the gear shifter, and feel like it was helping me drive better/faster. Andretti would still win, and everything mechanical would fall into background noise of his driving ability. That still doesn't mean I wouldn't prefer driving a corvette. :D

Similarly, any grand master could smoke me if I were shooting a raced out G34 and they were shooting a jennings .25 jam-a-matic with a heal release and an 8 round mag. I'm not at the level where those things have faded into the background. I'm working on it.

Not quite.

Bore axis can certainly be "felt" by some folks in a subjective sense, but that's not quite the same thing as it making any measurable difference in performance.

There are a lot of variables in shooting a handgun, chief among them being interface between one's hands and the actual gun. The top shooters have much higher than average grip strength, solid grips, and lots of reps of practice. They've put in so much time and effort that they have eliminated enough variables to actually be able to quantify what difference a feature like bore axis makes in their shooting.

I'll use Bob Vogel as an example: in class with him I asked him where the bore axis on his gun (Stock Glock 34) really made the most difference in his performance and he said that it was primarily on longer-range shots made at speed...like 25 yards and beyond.

So it's not "noise" at his level, as I'm certain that people who run on that level have all the other stuff controlled to the point where they can quantify what difference it makes in their performance. To use the racing analogy, an unskilled person trying not to crash and die will be unable to appreciate subtle differences in handling caused by suspension setups where an accomplished racer can appreciate them.

People who aren't at the elite level have so much other stuff going on that whatever contribution bore axis makes to their performance is utterly drowned by factors like grip, trigger control, sight management, etc.

It's not something people should be factoring into their equipment selection. The importance of bore axis for all but the most elite of shooters is inversely proportional to how much marketing and internet chatter there is about it.

[HopetonBrown]

Like TCinVA said, Bob Vogel has mentioned that he likes Glocks because of the bore axis.

In this video he's asked what he'd shoot if he couldn't shoot Glocks. He mentions "Arsenal", which is basically what the Stryk is.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx1QsMqZR_8

[AJD21]

As a novice shooter I would give some insight into bore axis from my skill level. My perception is that it makes no meaningful difference and I have often been annoyed beyond believe on various gun forums when people will list bore axis as a legitimate reason to not by a pistol(such was the case with the PPQ when it was the new hotness). I find that a Sig p226 seemingly shoots flatter than a CZ75 even though it's internet wisdom that the p226 has a high bore axis and the CZ is lower in comparison.

Generally speaking 90% of my muzzle control seems to be related to how hard I grip the pistol, especially with my support hand. The fact that many experienced shooters on this forum seem dismissive of bore axis being a major factor in muzzle control pleases me greatly.

[guymontag]

If you're a B class retard or above, might as well take into account the pistol's recoil characteristics, which can be affected by the bore axis, spring rate, ammunition selection, weight distribution etc. To say bore axis is irrelevant or not a factor to all but the most elite... I disagree but then again - B class retard here.

Edit: Jerry M. mentions it in his YouTube videos too, along with grip as being important.

[GlockGen4]

That's what we needed, another Glock wanna'be!

[Irelander]

Saw this a while ago and thought I'd update this thread with the info. Arsenal Firearms USA is now Archon Firearms.

http://soldiersystems.net/2017/12/21/arsenal-firearms-usa-to-become-archon-firearms/

Just wondering if there is still a lot of hate for this pistol. Has anyone here shot one? It looks interesting to me especially the non-tilting barrel design, sort of reminds me of the Glock 46 rumors. I get that the Stryk B is expensive but perhaps the price will come down after its been released for a couple of years, who knows.

Its too spendy for me right now but I'd love to try one out.

[Tam212]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://loadoutroom.com/thearmsguide/2017-ends-familiar-story-gun-news/

[Nephrology]

Wait, you're saying that Glock isnt' dead yet???

[octagon]

Saw this a while ago and thought I'd update this thread with the info. Arsenal Firearms USA is now Archon Firearms.

http://soldiersystems.net/2017/12/21/arsenal-firearms-usa-to-become-archon-firearms/

Just wondering if there is still a lot of hate for this pistol. Has anyone here shot one? It looks interesting to me especially the non-tilting barrel design, sort of reminds me of the Glock 46 rumors. I get that the Stryk B is expensive but perhaps the price will come down after its been released for a couple of years, who knows.

Its too spendy for me right now but I'd love to try one out.

I like it. I like the looks of the gun and the different mechanicals from the norm/common guns currently available. I hope it eventually makes it to the US market. However it can't stay off the market and keep having these set backs if it is going to have any chance. As far as cost I look at it like the Hudson H9. It has different look and function with low bore axis claimed. The StykB is mid $700 and the Hudson is quite a bit more.

I wonder what may hit the market first The AA PD-10,PD-8 or the Stryk B by ???? Time will tell. I'm not in the market to be an early adopter but SHOT is right around the corner so competition will be coming.

[azerious]

HK P30 And HK45 at glock prices will give them a run

[Irelander]

I like it. I like the looks of the gun and the different mechanicals from the norm/common guns currently available. I hope it eventually makes it to the US market. However it can't stay off the market and keep having these set backs if it is going to have any chance. As far as cost I look at it like the Hudson H9. It has different look and function with low bore axis claimed. The StykB is mid $700 and the Hudson is quite a bit more.

I wonder what may hit the market first The AA PD-10,PD-8 or the Stryk B by ???? Time will tell. I'm not in the market to be an early adopter but SHOT is right around the corner so competition will be coming.

I agree. While the Stryk B and the Hudson are definitely out of my price range at the moment I still think they are innovative and interesting designs. Even with the delays at Archon, I think they are bringing something good to the table. I would much rather encourage innovation and cheer newer companies on then bash them for not being like Glock or HK.

Will there ever be a Glock killer? Nope. Not for a long time.

[Irelander]

http://soldiersystems.net/2018/01/23/shot-show-industry-day-at-the-range-archon-firearms-type-b/

[Sal Picante]

It looks interesting to me especially the non-tilting barrel design...

something something "Broken Locking Blocks"...

;)

[MattyD380]

I'm not really into striker fired guns... but, in my heart of hearts, I secretly hope a striker fired gun will come along, sweep me off my feet and help me "see the light." I'd consider trying something like this. I'm sure it's an excellent weapon. But... I'm also sure I don't wanna stick an SAO gun with no safety in my pants. Oh well. Next.

[Wendell]

This might be interesting, when they make it in a smaller version:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxz3-gx6EgA

[okie john]

Proprietary grip mapping technology that is standard on the Archon Firearms Type B frame. This mapping technology providers the end users a richer ergonomic experience.

They need to stop saying shit like this. English, motherfucker! Do you speak it?


Okie John

[Tensaw]

Translation: Grip Zone! (c'mon man, try to keeo up...)

[KeeFus]

Nothing...absolutely nothing is a Glock killer.

S&W tried with the M&P. Although it’s a good gun...failed. I carried the M&P 45 for 5 years and have it beside the bed. Good gun, accurate and reliable.

Springfield XD...lol...failed.

Sig 250...lol...failed.

Sig 320...will fail. I was going to buy one when but that’s when the whole don’t drop it or it’ll go off issue started. A large agency near me bought the 320 and their chief firearms instructor says Sig has not delivered on customer service...

Hk...meh. I’d say overall it failed. Too pricey for a polymer gun and replacement parts can be just as pricey. I’ve carried as a duty weapon two different USP models (full size and compact 45) and the juice just wasn’t worth the squeeze.

This thing has less of a chance than any of those listed above.

The only thing that will kill Glock...is Glock...and I don’t see that happening.

[1986s4]

Oh, look. Another special snowflake gun. I bet it has the lowest bore axis ever.

Take your favorite pistol and shoot it upside down = lowest bore axis....

[Buckeye63]

I honestly don't see any " Glock Killer ". I see that Springfield has got the Croatian mill to roll out with a 10mm ..wow took them 18yrs .. Still waiting on a M&P 10mm ....I have 11 Glocks in my safe .. Planning on 3 more this year,
another 19 , 26 & a 42 maybe a extra 43 so make that 4

[bac1023]

I love the Strike pistols.

I've got the new Type B from Germany as well as the original Italian Strike One.


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/921/CrXb0K.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plCrXb0Kj)




I've also got a super cool Salient Tier 1 Strike One pistol. Its an awesome shooter...


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/Tn0rKv.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poTn0rKvj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/Z4DkjA.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnZ4DkjAj)

[Bucky]

Hmm, need to try one of these. I wonder if anyone I know has one? :rolleyes:

[Grecco]

You Know Mr.Bucky,
Rumor has it two of your friends have them....maybe a meet up soon?

[Bucky]

You Know Mr.Bucky,
Rumor has it two of your friends have them....maybe a meet up soon?

Yes, it’s long overdue. Then we can report back here and see how Glock-Killer-eee it is. ;)

[spyderco monkey]

Nothing...absolutely nothing is a Glock killer.

The only thing that will kill Glock...is Glock...and I don’t see that happening.

The "Glock killer" is possible, and would be pretty simple. It amazes me that no manufacturer has seen the obvious formula.

"GK19" specs, listed in order of importance:

1. -Takes Glock magazines
2.-Glock 19 size (5" tall, 4" barrel, 15rd.)
3. Single Action trigger ala PPQ/VP9/CZP10
4. Timberwolf 2.0 style frame with removable, grip angle changing backstraps (Glock angle, CZ Angle, 1911 angle.)
5. Takes Glock sights
6. Comes with factory Orange dot / Black U notch sights
7. Improved grip texture ala Honor Defense
8. Integral 10mm urethane recoil buffer in the frame ala Sphinx SDP

Glock would still be #1 for many years due to inertia and market saturation.

But the GK19 would pretty much smother every other 9x19 polymer pistol on the market, making it the clear #2 pistol after the G19 pretty soon after introduction.

Glock mags have essentially become the AR Mag of 9x19 - multiple manufacturers, available everywhere. So being able to use Glock mags would be a huge boon for any Glock rival.

Had the CZP10C taken Glock 19 mags, it could have knocked out the VP9, PPQ, 509, and P320.

[bac1023]

Hmm, need to try one of these. I wonder if anyone I know has one? :rolleyes:


You Know Mr.Bucky,
Rumor has it two of your friends have them....maybe a meet up soon?

Yeah spring range day :)

[Grecco]

Yeah spring range day :)

So, after a bit of snow removal,
I just could not take it any longer.
I tore the "B" apart and cleaned up the trigger, the creep is gone :)

[Zman001]

The "Glock killer" is possible, and would be pretty simple. It amazes me that no manufacturer has seen the obvious formula.

"GK19" specs, listed in order of importance:

1. -Takes Glock magazines
2.-Glock 19 size (5" tall, 4" barrel, 15rd.)
3. Single Action trigger ala PPQ/VP9/CZP10
4. Timberwolf 2.0 style frame with removable, grip angle changing backstraps (Glock angle, CZ Angle, 1911 angle.)
5. Takes Glock sights
6. Comes with factory Orange dot / Black U notch sights
7. Improved grip texture ala Honor Defense
8. Integral 10mm urethane recoil buffer in the frame ala Sphinx SDP

Glock would still be #1 for many years due to inertia and market saturation.

But the GK19 would pretty much smother every other 9x19 polymer pistol on the market, making it the clear #2 pistol after the G19 pretty soon after introduction.

Glock mags have essentially become the AR Mag of 9x19 - multiple manufacturers, available everywhere. So being able to use Glock mags would be a huge boon for any Glock rival.

Had the CZP10C taken Glock 19 mags, it could have knocked out the VP9, PPQ, 509, and P320.


It'd still take more than that, from aggressive marketing, good customer service, things like gssf/blue lable, and fighting to win every military and law enforcement contract possible.

If the goal is to beat Glock, a gun is only a small part of what you'd need.

[Bucky]

If the goal is to beat Glock, a gun is only a small part of what you'd need.

^^THIS^^

[todd]

I am not a fan of Glock, just my personal preference in how it feels in my hand, I have shot various models over the years. They are reliable and well build machines. My main issue with Glock pistols is this and I think (my opinion) would make almost the perfect pistol, though I am loving my CZP10c, I think if it could take the vast amount of glock magazines that our out there would of ruled.

Based around the Glock 17 or 19:

Have a factory trigger as good as that is on CZP10C
Have iron sights, with either fiber optic front or gold bead
Smooth out the beavertail and make it a 1/16th longer
Smooth out all the factory "polymer lines"
Grip, needs to have VZ grip G10 panels installed or inlaid
Front and Back strap chain checkering
paddle magazine release (like on the VP9)

[pangloss]

Resurrecting an old thread: Garand Thumb just released a new review of the Archon Type B. I've yet to see one in person, but I still think it looks like an interesting pistol.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL0cIdqAJ6o

[porkster]

The biggest problem any of these up and coming newest greatest new fathomed guns are going to have is parts availability and support.

I have the Strike One that has been gussied up by Salient and was about 2 grand. I bought into all the hype and tried to make it my main competition gun.

And you know what? It has had high double digit failures. On its third barrel. Probably a large number of internals replaced. And none of this was from anything moderately high of a round count-- still barely over 1000 rounds with most of them being the range. I no longer use it-- not having another event ruined because another part in the gun decided to quit.

The Type B has improvements on several areas, mostly the problematic frame, but you still can't buy parts or find any information on them. Salient has stood behind the gun so I can't complain there but it has been back to them four times.

Maybe a well known reviewer likes it now. But what happens once there are problems a month or two or a year later? No parts, no information, no aftermarket support.

I like the way it shoots. But I also like the way a G34 or P10C shoots.