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nwhpfan
03-02-2016, 09:45 AM
USPSA is going to creat a provision division for Pistol Caliber Carbine. SBR's will be aurhtorized and most likely be the go to system. Lots of talk of the MPX, 9mm AR's and CZ Scorpion.

I know next to nothing of buying and SBR, or converting a Pistol into an SBR so I'd like to ask those in the know who have done it.

Buy one or convert one?

Thanks!

Clusterfrack
03-02-2016, 10:00 AM
Good idea. I'm sure you'll get a lot of info here on P-F, but if you want, I'm happy to talk about the process in person or by phone (if you txt Gabe, he has my number).

Edwin
03-02-2016, 12:59 PM
If you're near Renton, go talk to Josh Pantel at Pantel's Tactical and he can get the whole thing done for you. He's pretty much the guy in the area for any form 4 stuff.

LittleLebowski
03-02-2016, 04:13 PM
I don't have experience but I'd be researching Palmetto 9mm ARs (http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-7-classic-freedom-9mm-kmod-pistol.html).

GJM
03-02-2016, 04:51 PM
USPSA is going to creat a provision division for Pistol Caliber Carbine. SBR's will be aurhtorized and most likely be the go to system. Lots of talk of the MPX, 9mm AR's and CZ Scorpion.

I know next to nothing of buying and SBR, or converting a Pistol into an SBR so I'd like to ask those in the know who have done it.

Buy one or convert one?

Thanks!

Unless I am going crazy, I thought we just had a multi page thread on this, with a recommendation of the JP AR using Glock magazines? Come to the Taran match in ST George later this month and you can enter PCC.

PPGMD
03-02-2016, 11:23 PM
My PCC is in the process of SBR approval. But TBH because of the annoyances of traveling with SBRs I am likely going to leave it in a non-NFA configuration.

Particularly since I just don't see much benefit of going down in size, in order to get an adequately long enough handguard you are going to need at least a 12" barrel. That is only 2.5" shorter than a pinned 14.5" barrel with muzzle brake.

nwhpfan
03-02-2016, 11:41 PM
Unless I am going crazy, I thought we just had a multi page thread on this, with a recommendation of the JP AR using Glock magazines? Come to the Taran match in ST George later this month and you can enter PCC.

Honestly I don't think I'll stop shooting Production.

It really comes down to the fact I don't own an SBR so I should buy one because I (still) can...


And it looks like fun, similar to the AR, I can't shoot .223 at the action bays at my range, etc, etc...

I only bring up the MPX because it looks the coolest.

LittleLebowski
03-03-2016, 08:25 AM
Honestly I don't think I'll stop shooting Production.

It really comes down to the fact I don't own an SBR so I should buy one because I (still) can...


And it looks like fun, similar to the AR, I can't shoot .223 at the action bays at my range, etc, etc...

I only bring up the MPX because it looks the coolest.

Completely fucking anecdotal but my best friend (author JL Bourne) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P434H98/) shoots every weekend and his training buddy has an SBR'd MCX. Bourne uses a Keltec 9mm carbine and the Keltec outperforms the MCX every time. These are both being used suppressed with factory ammo.

Probably not a data point for you but hopefully you will find it interesting. The price differential between the two carbines is substantial.

GJM
03-03-2016, 08:40 AM
NWHPFAN, look at this:


http://www.jprifles.com/1.2.13_GMR-13.php


Sent from my iPhone

LittleLebowski
03-03-2016, 08:59 AM
Unless I am going crazy, I thought we just had a multi page thread on this, with a recommendation of the JP AR using Glock magazines?

Mods here are shit.

dsa
03-03-2016, 09:00 AM
Completely fucking anecdotal but my best friend (author JL Bourne) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P434H98/) shoots every weekend and his training buddy has an SBR'd MCX. Bourne uses a Keltec 9mm carbine and the Keltec outperforms the MCX every time. These are both being used suppressed with factory ammo.

Probably not a data point for you but hopefully you will find it interesting. The price differential between the two carbines is substantial.

This is not the first time I have heard good things about the Keltec. A friend of my considers them a more cost effective alternative to the JP in PCC.

Clusterfrack
03-03-2016, 11:25 AM
If Jason Bourne shoots a Keltec, who am I to argue?

I've seen a wide range of performance from 9mm PCCs. 100% reliable guns are not a given. Here's a short list from memory:

9mm ARs: good ones seem to run well, and what you pay isn't necessarily correlated with reliability, but the really unreliable ones seem to be cheaper.

Keltec: not 100% reliable, and not a great trigger.

Berreta CX4: the two I've seen had some malfunctions.

Mech-Tech Glock conversion: 100% reliable (multiple guns), but funky non-ergonomic weird ass design.

HK 94: 100%

Fake HK MP5: problematic

Israeli IMI Uzi: 100%

Vector Uzi: problematic

Default.mp3
03-03-2016, 01:44 PM
Fake HK MP5: problematicThere are quality MP5 clones; Brethern Arms has gotten good marks from the guys on HKPro, FWIW.

But far more importantly, there have been lots of rumblings about the H&K SP5K, which might be shown at the NRA show, and that issues holding it up are that it doesn't score properly as an import pistol, and that H&K USA is working to resolve that. The European release of the SP5K is suppose to be around late spring, with an estimated cost of 2100 EUR to 2500 EUR for European markets (roughly 2400 USD to 2800 USD). The pistol in the USA will obviously have just a buttcap.http://i.imgbox.com/FffZH2s3.jpg
http://i.imgbox.com/om646NY9.jpg

I'm also wondering about the LWRC SMG.

Is there anything that really makes the GMR-13 worth 50% more than a Colt SMG?

Talionis
03-03-2016, 02:02 PM
There are quality MP5 clones; Brethern Arms has gotten good marks from the guys on HKPro, FWIW.

But far more importantly, there have been lots of rumblings about the H&K SP5K, which might be shown at the NRA show, and that issues holding it up are that it doesn't score properly as an import pistol, and that H&K USA is working to resolve that. The European release of the SP5K is suppose to be around late spring, with an estimated cost of 2100 EUR to 2500 EUR for European markets (roughly 2400 USD to 2800 USD). The pistol in the USA will obviously have just a buttcap.

I'm also wondering about the LWRC SMG.

Is there anything that really makes the GMR-13 worth 50% more than a Colt SMG?

Those interested in the aforementioned SP5K would do well to wait until around June.

ranger
03-03-2016, 08:28 PM
I don't have experience but I'd be researching Palmetto 9mm ARs (http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-7-classic-freedom-9mm-kmod-pistol.html).

I have a Palmetto Arms 9mm AR (uses the 32 round Colt like mags) and it is a lot of fun and reliable. Put an old TASCO PROPOINT on it. When I work with new shooters I always end the session with the 9mm AR on a plate rack - big smiles.